But you just said that your interpretation is as valid is his? But suddenly it isn't because your opinions can turn into 'facts' upon your willing? Hmmm...
This discussion isn't about who's right and who isn't. You need to be knowledgeable of what's offensive to be offended by it. Compared to pe… moreople who know, respect and idolise Jonah Hill, few people know what Greg Miller has done to upset people. Does this mean he should get away with being a dick? No. It does mean Jonah has a lot more people to offend, and these people won't just chat shit on forums. He has PR guys telling him "Jonah you shouldn't say that, Jonah say this." because he's a celebrity. There's a difference between being an internet celebrity and a real life celebrity.
You should have fun around here. I loved the valid criticism you made, but now it's become hate IMO.
I never told you to shut up. It's good that you voice your opinion. But you should stop using the word "evidence", because there really isn't any. Just because Telltale was having fun with Greg doesn't mean it's proof they hate disabled people.
And what you said was ALWAYS just an opinion. I think you should be proud of the OP you wrote and that so many people agreed with it. I'm happy for you. I think it's great. But it does not make you a God who can suddendly decide his opinion is a fact. All the criticism you mentioned, even if I agree to some points, is still just subjective.
I don't want to offend you or anything, and everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, but stop acting like what you say is a fact.
I'm not exactly here having fun either. Whenever I make a legitimate point with evidence to back me up, people agree. Then the minute they d… moreecide it's too much or they don't like what I have to say, suddenly it's "just an opinion" and I need to shut up.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
I'm not exactly here having fun either. Whenever I make a legitimate point with evidence to back me up, people agree. Then the minute they d… moreecide it's too much or they don't like what I have to say, suddenly it's "just an opinion" and I need to shut up.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
I'm not exactly here having fun either. Whenever I make a legitimate point with evidence to back me up, people agree. Then the minute they d… moreecide it's too much or they don't like what I have to say, suddenly it's "just an opinion" and I need to shut up.
That was bad wording on my part. And believe me, I understand that opinions are subjective. But an opinion becomes an argument when you have facts and evidence to back it up. That's what I meant here.
I'm arguing that it is a fact that Sarah's treatment in this episode, and that the attitude shown toward her character by both Greg and the people he's interviewed was offensive. I stand by that. It's not just my opinion. It's a fact.
A reply to TT247, because the forum does not show it:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more. You got a lot of upvotes, but that does not make you a god who has to spread the word and convince people that his opinion is right and a fact.
And nobody here said you should shut up. Have fun in these forums. Criticize telltale. But do you really think that it's gotten a little bit too far? It's just a video game. May sound harsh, but it is.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
I'm not exactly here having fun either. Whenever I make a legitimate point with evidence to back me up, people agree. Then the minute they d… moreecide it's too much or they don't like what I have to say, suddenly it's "just an opinion" and I need to shut up.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of peop… morele agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
And nobody here said you should shut up.
But you just said that your interpretation is as valid is his? But suddenly it isn't because your opinions can turn into 'facts' upon your willing? Hmmm...
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
But you just said that your interpretation is as valid is his? But suddenly it isn't because your opinions can turn into 'facts' upon your willing? Hmmm...
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of peop… morele agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
And nobody here said you should shut up.
Since a lot of people don't feel offended by it, it's not a fact.
And when you're talking about Sarah's treatment, I can discuss with you. Because I think you've got some valid points there. But when this whole thing goes the "Telltale hates disabled people" way, I think everyone here should calm down a bit. Because that simply is a little bit fucked up.
That was bad wording on my part. And believe me, I understand that opinions are subjective. But an opinion becomes an argument when you have… more facts and evidence to back it up. That's what I meant here.
I'm arguing that it is a fact that Sarah's treatment in this episode, and that the attitude shown toward her character by both Greg and the people he's interviewed was offensive. I stand by that. It's not just my opinion. It's a fact.
This is ridiculous man. Sarah and Clem got slapped in the game. I felt like kick that asswipe Bill/Carver in his ass. They were just kids. I hate those show damnation on kids and women.
I replayed the part they all had the facial expression of disgust and grief. Bonnie was crying afterwards about Sarah. Jane was sorry to you. Also this isn't a book where facial expressions are useless, it's a cinematic games facial expressions are ways to show grief rather than each character proclaiming "Oh, I am grieving over Sarah's death." Actions speak louder than words.
An expression of facial concern does not equate to good writing. And when did they ever show "determination to make sure that didn't happen"… more? And I'm sorry but "acknowledging Sarah's death" by one line saying that you're sorry Jane failed to save her because random plot plank smacked her in the face really doesn't do service to any of the characters.
Oh the laughs change everything. They were laughing at the clear and obvious irony of if you hate her, you can slap her and bring her along, but you also have to want her around.
I think you might have to watch the interview again. They actually said "I think it's also interesting that there [were] so many people who … morewere.. you know I've been hearing, were satisfied with slapping Sarah, but you only get that option if you're going to save her. I think that's like the last thing that you can do. And so it's just like Oh well you wanted to slap her, but in order to that you have to want her to be around at the same time [laughs]."
Call it nit-picking but there are subtle differences there that indicate their attitude toward her more clearly. They said earlier that people in the office and online were all hating Sarah, and they all wanted to kill her. There was no other side shown to this, no sympathy or respect shown toward Sarah at all.
A white person telling a racial joke at the expense of those it pokes fun at is offensive because it stems from the systematic oppression of… more these people, while white people live in privilege. It's not at everyone's expense. A white person is not oppressed.
Again, I'm not taking issue with the fact that Sarah died. It's how she died.
That would be the most reasonable thing to do. You know, I wasn't even pissed in the first place. I understand and respect his opinion, and … moreI see where he's coming from... it doesn't mean I agree with it. Be angry with Telltale for making a character like Sarah and 'treating her the way they did' rather than be angry at Greg, who a lot of people agree with and also ditched Sarah. This whole thing started on Tumblr... so of course it would get out of hand :P
Have you used Tumblr before? People are very... opinionated. It's up in the ranks of 4chan and Reddit of how bad it is, but Reddit has calmed down with all the fedoras who have taken over. Some people are just very hateful with their opinions, and if you disagree they transfer their hate to you.
Tumblr is full of "self diagnosed PTSD, Otherkin, Cisgender" keyboard warriors, who happen to be teenagers.
I've said this as well before in different place. Got massive downvotes for it lol.
Don't really get the tumblr bit though; I have heard other people say it suck but never really got why.
2.) This really does not apply here. Show don't tell is a rule in books, not visual media. It's a rule that indicates a writer must not directly tell us how to feel about something; we must see it for ourselves by actions in the writing and with hints and descriptions that don't hold our hand and steer us in one direction or another without subtlety. If you do want to apply this to the game, then Telltale did the opposite of this, they hit us over the head with all these put-downs on Sarah's character and the writing never indicates that there is anything more to it than that.
It's a prominent rule in cinema and cinematic experiences too. Think about the term "Show, not tell" it's a visual experience it's the perfect way to express this rule. How do you think silent films went along for decades? It provided the audience with an experience to imagine what's happening, aka. audience interpretation. Not all characters in movies and games need to proclaim their grief, their actions and facial expressions tell it all.
1.) I never argued that Clem's anger is unjustified. Becoming frustrated that Sarah can't move would have been understandable, but as it is,… more it's just another part of this one-sided view on Sarah, that she's just being stupid and we should be angry because it's all her fault.
2.) This really does not apply here. Show don't tell is a rule in books, not visual media. It's a rule that indicates a writer must not directly tell us how to feel about something; we must see it for ourselves by actions in the writing and with hints and descriptions that don't hold our hand and steer us in one direction or another without subtlety. If you do want to apply this to the game, then Telltale did the opposite of this, they hit us over the head with all these put-downs on Sarah's character and the writing never indicates that there is anything more to it than that.
3.1-3.4 This has nothing to do with episode 4, all this development is in previous episo… [view original content]
This really is my last post on this because it's pointless arguing with you, TT247. It's not like I don't have a clue what I'm talking about either when it comes to writing and storytelling. You're also quite predictable, partly when it comes to point 2.
1) That is bullcrap. Not everything is a representation of how Telltale feels or the message they want to send. In that scene where she is slapped, it is simply a matter of being true to what would happen in that situation and being true to the character. it doesn't have to be a big statement, so you're reading too much into it (though yes, it was intended to show she was helpess at that moment in time. It's a perfectly normal reaction to break down when you lose someone close, but on the flip side, it's also possible to deal with loss in different ways, especially if you've become hardened due to circumstances thrust upon you). Basically not every word has to be a message. Sometimes, it's just about portraying the characters well and the writers butt out. I think you can say that Sarah overall was a message however. Some people aren't fit for the Walking Dead's world, regardless of whether they're disabled or not. There are other aspects too, of course.
2) I knew you would say this. No, good storytelling is good storytelling no matter the medium.
3.5) Quite possible, but you could say she was the catalyst for Carver finally making the decision that now was the time to kill him.
3.7) I'm not trying to argue anything. Of course I'm just stating what are more or less facts when it concerns Sarah's actions in the story.
3.8) What Jane said, from what I remember, doesn't actually mean her sister was disabled. If you were put in Walking Dead's world, it's pretty hard to tell how you'd react. Disability or not, you might want to give up on life. Any case, I'd probably have to listen to Jane's conversation again to see if it was clear that her sister was disabled, but I just got the impression that she'd lost her zest for life, which is quite understandable.
4) You don't need to tell me what they did or didn't say. I know what they said. But it doesn't mean they cared absolutely nothing for the character and are disrespecting her. You're also taking this way too seriously. As a writer, you can have favorite characters. You might even grow to dislike a character, get fed up of writing them for whatever reason (like fan pressure to keep using them so they become stale as you're stuck in a rut, writing the same old stories/characters when you want a change). But for the character to have been created, you must have liked them at one point and there will always be a part of you that cares for them. Granted, I am approaching this from the perspective of a writer who works alone and isn't a part of a team. But yes, their reaction doesn't mean they cared nothing for the character and that they had no respect for her.
On disagreeing with my thoughts about Rebecca, not mourning Sarah's death and the baby? It's your right to disagree. I'd ask that you place yourself in their shoes. They've been living in the apocalypse for what, over a year and a half or two years where every single day is a battle for survival with no laws and society to speak of? Actually, I'm not even going to bother.
(I should clarify that the brackets for the first sentence below is directed more towards TT247. Everything else is said in general, though the first sentence does apply to others as well)
Have fun thinking everything is poor writing and picking apart everything Telltale does (are there even any positives for you?). It's your right to think what you want. There's no arguing with you. All I know is that a lot of this complaining has ceased to be criticism and is now just hate, like other game companies receive on a daily basis for non-sensical reasons. And Telltale are quite right to ignore this, or at least they are if they're individual writers (as I'm always approaching it from that perspective). My own thoughts regarding all of this would be I'd look at the feedback and see if there's anything useful, while shrugging my shoulders and saying it's not really my problem that you don't like something I've created because everything is subjective. So, maybe you should step away from Telltale's products in the future if you really dislike their recent products or them as a company. There's nothing wrong with that and they likely won't change to please you. The best way to get them to consider changing things is to vote with your wallet and enough people would need to do that. (Also, Telltale may just not agree with much of what's said. It's their right to do as they please as well, as their wants should be important with them being the creators. They shouldn't cave to fan pressure and if they did, it might have the opposite effect because they wouldn't be doing what they really wanted. This part in brackets is mostly talking about game features though and episode length, not the actual writing. Though yes, people also need to respect what Telltale want from a writing perspective too.)
1.) I never argued that Clem's anger is unjustified. Becoming frustrated that Sarah can't move would have been understandable, but as it is,… more it's just another part of this one-sided view on Sarah, that she's just being stupid and we should be angry because it's all her fault.
2.) This really does not apply here. Show don't tell is a rule in books, not visual media. It's a rule that indicates a writer must not directly tell us how to feel about something; we must see it for ourselves by actions in the writing and with hints and descriptions that don't hold our hand and steer us in one direction or another without subtlety. If you do want to apply this to the game, then Telltale did the opposite of this, they hit us over the head with all these put-downs on Sarah's character and the writing never indicates that there is anything more to it than that.
3.1-3.4 This has nothing to do with episode 4, all this development is in previous episo… [view original content]
Ah, alright. I guess I'm indifferent to much of this when it comes to the characters myself. Something has to be damned good writing to get me to care. And I'm pretty hard to touch in that regard. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate the stories etc. though. I pretty much give most things a 3 - 4 star rating. Only time I ever give a 5 out is if something manages to touch me. Very few things accomplish it, and because they haven't doesn't make the stories bad or poorly written (I'm talking about art in general, not just written stories). It's basically the pinnacle of art in my view and no artist can hope to do more than ellicit a reaction, regardless of whether something's perfect or not.
Anyhow, much of that was off-topic I guess. Suppose I just wanted to explain why I'm indifferent to the characters. But it does raise a valid point for others to consider. Season 1, while not perfect as nothing is really, was one of the few things that actually made me get a bit emotional at the end. That is because of the writing, so it would have got a 5 from me. Season 2 was always going to find it hard to top season 1, but just because it hasn't for people doesn't make it bad. While I could be remembering wrong, season 1 shared some of the same flaws as season 2 as well. And something having flaws doesn't mean that the product is bad. Like I said, nothing is perfect. Classic lit could be picked apart, I'm sure.
@Rob_K
Agree with all your points here.
And no, I truly, truly care about many fictional characters in all types of media so it's very… more unlikely that was me. I do however think there are better things to vent about than the way Greg Miller sits in his chair during interviews though, lol, and that's what my post on the next page means.
Oh the laughs change everything. They were laughing at the clear and obvious irony of if you hate her, you can slap her and bring her along, but you also have to want her around.
How can people let someone die? In my play throughs I can never get myself to indirectly cause the death of a character, except for Lee and Sam as they were both suffering, and Georgie in The Wolf Among Us.
How can people let someone die? In my play throughs I can never get myself to indirectly cause the death of a character, except for Lee and Sam as they were both suffering, and Georgie in The Wolf Among Us.
If she had any disability then it was obviously extremely minor and pretty much redundant. It's wrong of you to argue that Sarah's portrayal was offensive because it wasn't. She was a scared girl who died a scared girl. Just because she was killed off doesn't mean she was treated unfairly... People die, sometimes our favorite characters, and we have to deal with that. Her story was engrossing and realistic from its beginning to the end... She was always depicted as a human - Someone more human and 'normal' than everyone else that even reminded me of myself.
She shut down completely upon seeing her father die and Telltale then let us deal with that in whatever way we wished... We have multiple dialogue options in terms of persuading her to leave that trailer. You could have been forceful with her or understanding, or anywhere in between.
"Why then are you so adamant that this isn't a big deal? I honestly don't understand."
As a technically disabled person I'm not offended because her death was realistic and satisfactory for me. It served multiple purposes and pulled on my heartstrings, which is what I want from TWDG. I don't believe Telltale ever dehumanized her in any way... Even if all the other characters despised her it wouldn't mean Telltale also do.
However, if Sarah was brutally beaten to death by a group of bandits purely for being disabled then I would be offended. Such a death would be too extreme and wouldn't have any meaning.That didn't happen though, she died in an acceptable manner while crippled by fear.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Just because you don't think the signs were strong enough doesn't erase the fact that they existe… mored.
Let me ask you something.
Does Telltale have to blatantly come up with some grandiose announcement for each character in order for you to accept that something is true about them? "THIS CHARACTER IS BLACK. THIS CHARACTER IS INDIAN. THIS CHARACTER IS GAY. THIS CHARACTER IS DISABLED." Why don't they do that? Because they show it, through direct and indirect characterization. It's obvious what the original intention was.
And even if I'm wrong, and Telltale never intended for us to think that Sarah is disabled, why is it such a terrible thing? Why is it wrong of me to argue that Sarah's portrayal was offensive?
Why is it such a terrible thing for an innocent and sympathetic young girl to have a disability, that doesn't villainize or dehumanize her, but is instead simply part of who she is? Why … [view original content]
It may very well be true that Telltale did not intentionally mean to offend disabled people. But they did. Clearly they did. I've discussed … morehow they did over and over. Their attitude in their latest interviews only confirms that at best they are blissfully unaware of how offensive their treatment of Sarah was. Which is yet another example of how the media and society in general is either unaware or uncaring of how the disabled are represented.
Have you used Tumblr before? People are very... opinionated. It's up in the ranks of 4chan and Reddit of how bad it is, but Reddit has calme… mored down with all the fedoras who have taken over. Some people are just very hateful with their opinions, and if you disagree they transfer their hate to you.
Tumblr is full of "self diagnosed PTSD, Otherkin, Cisgender" keyboard warriors, who happen to be teenagers.
So upon further research it turns out this audio file is actually Clem screaming upon being slapped. It has nothing to do with Sarah. The noise that plays when Sarah is hit by Clem is called "NV_Sarah_Get_Slapped"
Thanks for all this needless drama, OP. Your facts are wrong.
I think that he just wanted to lighten the mood. The haters came and made a drama out of it. He just wanted to share something he found funny IMO, but I guess you aren't allowed to have fun around here anymore.
So upon further research it turns out this audio file is actually Clem screaming upon being slapped. It has nothing to do with Sarah. The no… moreise that plays when Sarah is hit by Clem is called "NV_Sarah_Get_Slapped"
Thanks for all this needless drama, OP. Your facts are wrong.
Wait...all the Hate/discussion in this Thread is because of an audio-file named "Bitchslap" ?
OK...Im done with this forum. By Far the worst Community i ever saw.
Comments
But you just said that your interpretation is as valid is his? But suddenly it isn't because your opinions can turn into 'facts' upon your willing? Hmmm...
If you get him to let Nick die, you can slap him for doing it. Which is kind of hypocritical on your part when you say it like that.
How is this discussion not about who's right and who isn't? You're trying to prove me wrong. I'm trying to prove you wrong.
And I understand what you're saying about Jonah Hill. But I don't see how that makes me wrong. Maybe you need to explain it more clearly?
You should have fun around here. I loved the valid criticism you made, but now it's become hate IMO.
I never told you to shut up. It's good that you voice your opinion. But you should stop using the word "evidence", because there really isn't any. Just because Telltale was having fun with Greg doesn't mean it's proof they hate disabled people.
And what you said was ALWAYS just an opinion. I think you should be proud of the OP you wrote and that so many people agreed with it. I'm happy for you. I think it's great. But it does not make you a God who can suddendly decide his opinion is a fact. All the criticism you mentioned, even if I agree to some points, is still just subjective.
I don't want to offend you or anything, and everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, but stop acting like what you say is a fact.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
And nobody here said you should shut up.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
And nobody here said you should shut up.
That was bad wording on my part. And believe me, I understand that opinions are subjective. But an opinion becomes an argument when you have facts and evidence to back it up. That's what I meant here.
I'm arguing that it is a fact that Sarah's treatment in this episode, and that the attitude shown toward her character by both Greg and the people he's interviewed was offensive. I stand by that. It's not just my opinion. It's a fact.
A reply to TT247, because the forum does not show it:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more. You got a lot of upvotes, but that does not make you a god who has to spread the word and convince people that his opinion is right and a fact.
And nobody here said you should shut up. Have fun in these forums. Criticize telltale. But do you really think that it's gotten a little bit too far? It's just a video game. May sound harsh, but it is.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
And nobody here said you should shut up.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
And nobody here said you should shut up.
You're twisting my words.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You made a great thread with a lot of valid criticism and you can be proud of yourself. A lot of people agreed with you. That's great. But it still does not mean what you say is a fact. It's always been a subjective opinion and nothing more.
And nobody here said you should shut up.
Okay sorry guys my internet just fucked up. Maybe a mod could delete those posts?
It's my mission to do my best to convince people otherwise when I think they're wrong.
You're "mission"? Oh boy
Sorry, girl. Didn't mean to offend you.
Since a lot of people don't feel offended by it, it's not a fact.
And when you're talking about Sarah's treatment, I can discuss with you. Because I think you've got some valid points there. But when this whole thing goes the "Telltale hates disabled people" way, I think everyone here should calm down a bit. Because that simply is a little bit fucked up.
This is ridiculous man. Sarah and Clem got slapped in the game. I felt like kick that asswipe Bill/Carver in his ass. They were just kids. I hate those show damnation on kids and women.
Or, it could be a re-used animation. They could have named it Bitchslap for TWAU since there's a lot of violence.
Your profile pic is awesome.
I replayed the part they all had the facial expression of disgust and grief. Bonnie was crying afterwards about Sarah. Jane was sorry to you. Also this isn't a book where facial expressions are useless, it's a cinematic games facial expressions are ways to show grief rather than each character proclaiming "Oh, I am grieving over Sarah's death." Actions speak louder than words.
Oh the laughs change everything. They were laughing at the clear and obvious irony of if you hate her, you can slap her and bring her along, but you also have to want her around.
Your mission to convince people, that's they're wrong, when you think you're right? Damn, bringing Christianity to the Telltale forums.
Now you throw around white privilege?
I've said this as well before in different place. Got massive downvotes for it lol.
Don't really get the tumblr bit though; I have heard other people say it suck but never really got why.
Have you used Tumblr before? People are very... opinionated. It's up in the ranks of 4chan and Reddit of how bad it is, but Reddit has calmed down with all the fedoras who have taken over. Some people are just very hateful with their opinions, and if you disagree they transfer their hate to you.
Tumblr is full of "self diagnosed PTSD, Otherkin, Cisgender" keyboard warriors, who happen to be teenagers.
It's a prominent rule in cinema and cinematic experiences too. Think about the term "Show, not tell" it's a visual experience it's the perfect way to express this rule. How do you think silent films went along for decades? It provided the audience with an experience to imagine what's happening, aka. audience interpretation. Not all characters in movies and games need to proclaim their grief, their actions and facial expressions tell it all.
This really is my last post on this because it's pointless arguing with you, TT247. It's not like I don't have a clue what I'm talking about either when it comes to writing and storytelling. You're also quite predictable, partly when it comes to point 2.
1) That is bullcrap. Not everything is a representation of how Telltale feels or the message they want to send. In that scene where she is slapped, it is simply a matter of being true to what would happen in that situation and being true to the character. it doesn't have to be a big statement, so you're reading too much into it (though yes, it was intended to show she was helpess at that moment in time. It's a perfectly normal reaction to break down when you lose someone close, but on the flip side, it's also possible to deal with loss in different ways, especially if you've become hardened due to circumstances thrust upon you). Basically not every word has to be a message. Sometimes, it's just about portraying the characters well and the writers butt out. I think you can say that Sarah overall was a message however. Some people aren't fit for the Walking Dead's world, regardless of whether they're disabled or not. There are other aspects too, of course.
2) I knew you would say this. No, good storytelling is good storytelling no matter the medium.
3.5) Quite possible, but you could say she was the catalyst for Carver finally making the decision that now was the time to kill him.
3.7) I'm not trying to argue anything. Of course I'm just stating what are more or less facts when it concerns Sarah's actions in the story.
3.8) What Jane said, from what I remember, doesn't actually mean her sister was disabled. If you were put in Walking Dead's world, it's pretty hard to tell how you'd react. Disability or not, you might want to give up on life. Any case, I'd probably have to listen to Jane's conversation again to see if it was clear that her sister was disabled, but I just got the impression that she'd lost her zest for life, which is quite understandable.
4) You don't need to tell me what they did or didn't say. I know what they said. But it doesn't mean they cared absolutely nothing for the character and are disrespecting her. You're also taking this way too seriously. As a writer, you can have favorite characters. You might even grow to dislike a character, get fed up of writing them for whatever reason (like fan pressure to keep using them so they become stale as you're stuck in a rut, writing the same old stories/characters when you want a change). But for the character to have been created, you must have liked them at one point and there will always be a part of you that cares for them. Granted, I am approaching this from the perspective of a writer who works alone and isn't a part of a team. But yes, their reaction doesn't mean they cared nothing for the character and that they had no respect for her.
On disagreeing with my thoughts about Rebecca, not mourning Sarah's death and the baby? It's your right to disagree. I'd ask that you place yourself in their shoes. They've been living in the apocalypse for what, over a year and a half or two years where every single day is a battle for survival with no laws and society to speak of? Actually, I'm not even going to bother.
(I should clarify that the brackets for the first sentence below is directed more towards TT247. Everything else is said in general, though the first sentence does apply to others as well)
Have fun thinking everything is poor writing and picking apart everything Telltale does (are there even any positives for you?). It's your right to think what you want. There's no arguing with you. All I know is that a lot of this complaining has ceased to be criticism and is now just hate, like other game companies receive on a daily basis for non-sensical reasons. And Telltale are quite right to ignore this, or at least they are if they're individual writers (as I'm always approaching it from that perspective). My own thoughts regarding all of this would be I'd look at the feedback and see if there's anything useful, while shrugging my shoulders and saying it's not really my problem that you don't like something I've created because everything is subjective. So, maybe you should step away from Telltale's products in the future if you really dislike their recent products or them as a company. There's nothing wrong with that and they likely won't change to please you. The best way to get them to consider changing things is to vote with your wallet and enough people would need to do that. (Also, Telltale may just not agree with much of what's said. It's their right to do as they please as well, as their wants should be important with them being the creators. They shouldn't cave to fan pressure and if they did, it might have the opposite effect because they wouldn't be doing what they really wanted. This part in brackets is mostly talking about game features though and episode length, not the actual writing. Though yes, people also need to respect what Telltale want from a writing perspective too.)
@Hazzer
Ah, alright. I guess I'm indifferent to much of this when it comes to the characters myself. Something has to be damned good writing to get me to care. And I'm pretty hard to touch in that regard. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate the stories etc. though. I pretty much give most things a 3 - 4 star rating. Only time I ever give a 5 out is if something manages to touch me. Very few things accomplish it, and because they haven't doesn't make the stories bad or poorly written (I'm talking about art in general, not just written stories). It's basically the pinnacle of art in my view and no artist can hope to do more than ellicit a reaction, regardless of whether something's perfect or not.
Anyhow, much of that was off-topic I guess. Suppose I just wanted to explain why I'm indifferent to the characters. But it does raise a valid point for others to consider. Season 1, while not perfect as nothing is really, was one of the few things that actually made me get a bit emotional at the end. That is because of the writing, so it would have got a 5 from me. Season 2 was always going to find it hard to top season 1, but just because it hasn't for people doesn't make it bad. While I could be remembering wrong, season 1 shared some of the same flaws as season 2 as well. And something having flaws doesn't mean that the product is bad. Like I said, nothing is perfect. Classic lit could be picked apart, I'm sure.
That's what I thought as well.
How can people let someone die? In my play throughs I can never get myself to indirectly cause the death of a character, except for Lee and Sam as they were both suffering, and Georgie in The Wolf Among Us.
Well, Nick did kinda kill Walter's lover and lie to his face about it. That leaves a bit of a mark.
True, but Nick isn't the only one whose killed people, everyone in the apocalypse has at least indirectly caused someone's death it seems.
If she had any disability then it was obviously extremely minor and pretty much redundant. It's wrong of you to argue that Sarah's portrayal was offensive because it wasn't. She was a scared girl who died a scared girl. Just because she was killed off doesn't mean she was treated unfairly... People die, sometimes our favorite characters, and we have to deal with that. Her story was engrossing and realistic from its beginning to the end... She was always depicted as a human - Someone more human and 'normal' than everyone else that even reminded me of myself.
She shut down completely upon seeing her father die and Telltale then let us deal with that in whatever way we wished... We have multiple dialogue options in terms of persuading her to leave that trailer. You could have been forceful with her or understanding, or anywhere in between.
As a technically disabled person I'm not offended because her death was realistic and satisfactory for me. It served multiple purposes and pulled on my heartstrings, which is what I want from TWDG. I don't believe Telltale ever dehumanized her in any way... Even if all the other characters despised her it wouldn't mean Telltale also do.
However, if Sarah was brutally beaten to death by a group of bandits purely for being disabled then I would be offended. Such a death would be too extreme and wouldn't have any meaning.That didn't happen though, she died in an acceptable manner while crippled by fear.
I haven't seen a disabled person complain about Sarah's representation as of yet. Even if someone has... They're overreacting.
There's a massive silent majority out there who have loved Season 2 and the way Sarah was depicted. Barely anyone is offended,
Haha, I had no idea.
I just heard someone mention it with a lot of vitriol. I totally get the tumblr/SJW comments now.
I will now avoid Tumblr. Thanks for the warning.
So upon further research it turns out this audio file is actually Clem screaming upon being slapped. It has nothing to do with Sarah. The noise that plays when Sarah is hit by Clem is called "NV_Sarah_Get_Slapped"
Thanks for all this needless drama, OP. Your facts are wrong.
I think that he just wanted to lighten the mood. The haters came and made a drama out of it. He just wanted to share something he found funny IMO, but I guess you aren't allowed to have fun around here anymore.
My thoughts exactly
Wait...all the Hate/discussion in this Thread is because of an audio-file named "Bitchslap" ?
OK...Im done with this forum. By Far the worst Community i ever saw.