Whether she lives or dies clem doesnt work as the PC
I like clem but this season has proven playing as her in this game dosnt work. Next season clem could still be in the game, in fact I would prefer that but not as the playable character. Unfortunately I'm not sure how they could do that.
Reasons why
She's 11 and apart from if they do a massive timeskip which would be just as bad it dosnt make sense how people in the group treat her. Having her opinion be anymore than a small addition is ridiculous adults would not pay attention like that to a kid. Furthermore the way people like Kenny/Rebbecca sometimes treat her is silly too I dont think anyone could be that ggressive towards a child.
Clem as a charcater is dead- What I mean by this is now clem is player controlled all her emotion and stuff is restricted to a player, also as the PC there is no danger in choices for her, clem until episode 5 has no chance of death and the added threat of that removes some of the drama. When I stayed to save Sarah I knew the only person possibly at risk was Jane and as such it was a no brainer, the moral compass is gone. Having clem their and her changing with the world was also interesting to see, now thats gone as the player will always decide her actions. While a few people say they play as clem most still play as if it is them in that situation.
Clems strength and tasks shes given are getting ridiculous. Episode 2 she is made to do almost every task in a group of adults, this is again because she is the PC when in reality she would stay behind with Sarah apart from maybe the odd scouting mission. Also the fact she's now hacking off arms in two hits and kicking down doors is also stretching imagination.
I miss being an adult with adult responsiblities having adult conversations with others, clem is restricted in this way too.
So in review clem should remain a charcater, a main charcater but we should play as someone else as playing as a child just doesnt work.
Comments
says you
I agree Firewallcano.
Thanks for that great counter argument
I mean I gave it a shot for four episodes
I see your point OP, but I don't think this is Clementine's fault as a character -- it's more the fault of the writers this season. I think they could have handled the whole 'child protagonist' thing with a little more tact and innovation. An example of when they got this right was when we meet the cabin group for the first time
Now initially, I had my problems with that entire sequence. But in retrospect, it was actually done pretty well. The feeling of helplessness you get when trying to convince these people not to lock you in a shed is very distressing, but it remains true to the concept of trying to survive as a kid. If this season had more moments like that, I probably would think more highly of it. But instead, TTG insisted on making Clem take on the role of an adult protagonist, despite her age and stature.
And I think that's what has been so jarring about her character this season. Early on, her age and inexperience were handled decently. Somewhere between Episodes 2 and 3, though, I feel like they kind of lost touch of that, and as a result the entire experience has felt somewhat unconvincing and alienating.
Yeah and ep 4 was probably the best so far with it. Apart from Kenny yelling in her face.
However its a choice game, so they cant change everything now. Plus again I like being an adult making adult choices not a child making an adult choices with the same reactions, plus I miss clem as a character
Where are, my darling downvote button!?? lol
I feel like having Clementine as a deuteragonist and treating the new protagonist for 'Season Three' based upon her experiences in 'Season Two' would be interesting.
I'd support this...Clem is cool n all but. I miss playing as an adult. Feels weird how a 11 year old kid does all the work for the group and how the group relies on Clem
I was very critical of this from the beginning, I too think that the game would have been better with a different PC.
''Everyone miss plays as an adult'' WTF! There are like 689023475689234769976137498138 games where you can play as an adult man and not many where you can play as a little girl in a zombie apocalypse. IT'S A GAME AND SINCE SHE IS THE PROTAGONIST, SHE GOT THE POWER! The game WOULDN'T be the same WITHOUT Clementine, since the season are about HER. If you want to play as an adult, go play another game or season 1.
I'm OK with reverting to someone a little older for season 3, but I felt that having Clementine as protagonist worked just fine in this season. Already being "of age" in a apocalypse and growing up in one are two different and unique experiences. I'm glad Telltale let us play through both.
"You can't treat her as a child, you have to treat her as a survivor." -Chuck
This is copied directly from a discussion I done before, nevertheless... here it is:
I'm with the camp that thinks Clem should stay. And why? Because of her potential. She's only eleven years old and look how far she's come already. I want to see her develop throughout the series. Heck Season Two itself has felt somewhat like the origin of her true potential in a sense. Because at the end of the day, I think that the Telltale The Walking Dead series IS Clementine's story. Despite her not being the protagonist of the first season.
Anyway, here's what I THINK will happen. Nearly all the characters from Season Two will die EXCEPT Clementine and Rebecca's baby. She'll get to safety for a short while. Flash forward a few years and the third season can have a symbolic resemblance to the first Season wherein the main protagonist is trying to protect a child. Only this time around it's Clem trying to protect Rebecca's. I think this could work really well if Telltale manage to pull it off right, I know I left a good few blanks here and there, but I think you guys can get the idea on how I would want the third season to go.
And in regards to a brand new protagonist... I'm sorry, but I don't think it would work. You always feel more personally bonded with the characters from the original Macon group. Not trying to say that the new characters are not relatable (far from it, I loved Nick and Mike) but I just don't see the purpose of focusing on a new character and calling it "The Walking Dead Season Three". The story is more personal to you, the player when you see the one character who's been around since day 1. Remember when Clem told Luke about Lee? That felt personal, because it was actually delving into your personal history. When Jane was telling her story you could see where she's coming from but you don't know what it was like for her. You're more emotionally upset remembering things of the past. AKA: The story being more personal. And I think that if we were to transition to a new character this late in the timeline it simply wouldn't work. You would have to restart the series timeline and establish a new main character if that was the case. And I still don't think that would work too well since it wouldn't really feel like a number "3". You would might as well start the series over if that's the case.
tl;dr: Clem can still work as the protagonist IF Telltale change her up a bit. Heck I loved playing as her in Season Two and I want to see where her character goes from here. And I want to be part of her journey every step of the way.
I think Clementine as the Playable Character is a great choice. Not many games use children, much less girls as their protagonist and her age makes her a type that makes sense to be influenced by the world around her. Besides, since the Walking Dead is a continous series it makes sense to follow in the footsteps of someone who were in the first season(s)
The Walking Dead are about the characters, Clementine is the embodiment of hope and the future. Hope that anyone can survive a catastrophe even those so small that their impact on the world lies in the future.
I loved playing as Lee and as Clem - though you all make good points about how 'adult' she has had to be. I would be fine with Clem again - though I have this odd feeling it will be Jane.
Sense, this man speaks it!
I actually agree completely.
I still think Clem has a lot of potential as a character that is yet to be explored. Like others have said, a several year time jump to Clem caring for Rebecca's baby sounds like a great way to tie S3 to 1 & 2 while still telling a new and evolving story. This season has struggled with believable interactions between Clem and adults, yes, episodes 1 and 2 (for the most part) did a fine job with establishing Clem as a believable child protagonist.
I also agree that there aren't nearly enough likable child characters in games today. It would be a shame to lose one of the good ones, so soon at least.
I disagree with everything you said OP. I'm not gonna get into it atm but there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything you said. It all makes sense.
Like it or not,there's no one in this season who can replace clementine as protagonist in season 3 and her story don't feel complete and meaningful for me like lee's did.
there can't be a big time jump, the most it can go forward is 2 years without it exceeding the comic timeline
I like season 2 and I love it to play as Clementine. Point
I enjoyed it because it has been a unique experience but it seems like people dont really want that.
I don't see the current writing team being able to create a character that can replace Clementine.
I wouldnt be against a new protagonist (keep in mind, I love Clementine and very much enjoyed playing as her), but I do agree with the rest. I would like to see Clem aged up a few years just so we wont be playing the same game again and we can truly watch her grow up and see how this new world has affected her. Its very much like Carl from the comic and show. You get to see how this child grows and changes and adapts to this new world that we cant imagine.
It also says, that the story is based on how you play and in future episodes. If she dies in the ending of season 2, then there is no ''the story is based on how you and in future episodes'' because then she's dead and nothing from season 1 or 2 will be mentioned. The Walking Dead IS Clementine.
I hope not.
Nah, I wanna watch her grow up and her character to develop.
1.She's 11 and apart from if they do a massive timeskip which would be just as bad it dosnt make sense how people in the group treat her. Having her opinion be anymore than a small addition is ridiculous adults would not pay attention like that to a kid.
Well this is simply not true. After two years of surviving in the ZA she definitely has shown she has the potential to survive, and therefore knows what to do to survive. Most anyone at this point has this ability/skill set aside from those protected from the start being hidden/shielded from the world. Which Clem is surely not among that group (as shown very early in the game).
Again, not true. People yell at their kids every - single - day. People want to yell at kids not their own every - single - day. The only thing that stops them is the repercussions from their peers (mostly). Retract these repercussions + adding zombies which could kill you if the kid is does anything wrong and you have a recipe for aggressiveness towards children. This also reflects on the first point -- where if you have survived this long you know what needs to be done to survive, this allows justification for aggressiveness towards a survivor regardless of age. If they have done something wrong (in your eyes) then they should know it.
You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive.
What I mean by this is now clem is player controlled all her emotion and stuff is restricted to a player, also as the PC there is no danger in choices for her, clem until episode 5 has no chance of death and the added threat of that removes some of the drama. When I stayed to save Sarah I knew the only person possibly at risk was Jane and as such it was a no brainer, the moral compass is gone.
This is the same as any other PC. Lee was absolutely no different. He was completely safe until the last episode. As is Clem. The only time a PC isn't safe is when the PC changes half way through a game, and that is extremely seldom, correct?
As for the moral compass being gone I disagree, the moral compass is the person I am playing. I still view her as a person wanting to do right, wanting to live a moral life, striving to do good in a world of bad, all the while still needing to do wrong in order to live. A desperate, illogical, ruthless, frivolous endeavor.
I feel sad that people want her to die, i mean,she is the only connection to the first season! it would be stupid to call " season 3" without her, i don't want a new protagonist that i don't care about, and don't want to play as fucking luke/kenny! did the writers make such an awful job that people want clem dead so she won't be involved in more bad seasons? that's what i think.
Is there a limit on length now? I responded to the rest of the points in the above post... but I think a ghost stole my words.......
I actually agree. I wouldn't mind having some new blood and having Clem as a non playable character again. You're right in the points of "Clem is expected to do everything" and it sometimes feels too far fetched and you aren't treated the same as you were as Lee being an adult. However I do think one of the main reasons she is the protagonist is because of the past relations with characters. I'm in the camp of "I don't really care what happens as long as the writing is good". But yeah, she's still got a lot of potential that's for sure.
I want to play as an adult too, but i like Clem a lot. I used to care about playing as her, but i've changed my mind and i really don't mind playing as her anymore.
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Lol was thinking it didn't have all points answered. But I'd like to thank you already, was possibly gonna write something similar myself. So I agree and am curious to your thoughts on the other points. Aggression is indeed not unheard of towards children, even physical towards one's own in some cases, sadly. So what's a little yelling in the ZA eh?
My first posts' reasoning was my thoroughly thought out and more precisely worded, but I'll reword it as best I can from where it cut me off.
3.Clems strength and tasks shes given are getting ridiculous. Episode 2 she is made to do almost every task in a group of adults, this is again because she is the PC when in reality she would stay behind with Sarah apart from maybe the odd scouting mission. Also the fact she's now hacking off arms in two hits and kicking down doors is also stretching imagination.
I definitely agree some of the situations she is put in are ludicrous. Per example the worst case in my opinion, the wind turbine. That was extremely senseless and idiotic. I also concur that her strength is, at times, very... questionable. The majority of the situations she is placed in are completely realistic. I would place her in category closer to Luke, Kenny, and Lee vs Sarah. As was shown last episode, the two who should be most alike are not very alike at all. One grew (again returning to my aforementioned point- Chuck's wise words) into an adult-esque person while the other remained a scared, guarded child.
4.I miss being an adult with adult responsiblities having adult conversations with others, clem is restricted in this way too.
I feel the interactions between the characters has been rather lackluster this season. An accusation placed squarely on the current writers and not the story they were given (though I reserve my final, dooms-day judgment for after the release of the entire game... it's only fair). But I don't feel any of this is attributed to Clem not being able to speak and act as an adult. She is hardly "restricted" and if anything is presented with more possibilities since she can speak/act like an adult in nearly every single manner but can also react as a child, think as a child, and be viewed by others as a child. If anything your argument should lean more towards the writers not giving due respect to the latter traits.
It would be nice if Clementine is the protagonist of Season 3, but from Jane's words to the depressing overtones of Episode 5, it might not happen. I believe Clem still has some character development that writer's can bring out of her. She's not even a teenager/adult yet. But a brand new character might be possible too.