"Who will you become?" Your Clem could be turning into Carver
TTG keeps bombarding us with things like "#Myclem" and "who will you become?" but between all this promotion one quote from Carver stands out "They are weak and we are strong thats why it falls to people like us to lead them to safety..."
A lot of people will say "There's no way Clem's like Carver" but before disregarding the notion lets look at some examples of Clem's actions and Carver's Actions.
Clem slaps Sarah to make her realize again that their living in a life or death situation.
vs
Caver tells Carlos to slap Sarah to make her realize again that their living in a life or death situation. (Although the punishment was just over talking to Clem Sarah would rather talk to Clem then Listen to what work needed to be done to keep the community safe and running. The slap was just to wake her up to their dire situation)
Next example:
Clem and group lure walkers to Caver's compound to make their escape but in the process they effectively doomed all the 400 days members and everyone that stayed at the compound having them die horrible deaths just so they could sneak away.
compared to
Next example:
Clem gets rid of the weakest link. Depending on what what you told Walter about Nick.
Carver gets rid of the weakest link. Reggie.
Next example:
The outside world is more torturing then Carver's community. Being ripped apart
vs
Carver Breaking Carlos's fingers. (Cake walk)
Overall there are a lot of ways your clem is like Carver. Just remember who will you become?
Comments
They were taken prisoners I think it was pretty much justified... And Clem don't actively KILL Sarah wtf.
Until Clem kills someone because they aren't performing extremely good I don't consider her Carver-like.
What I find more weird is that people think that everyone who isn't always sacrificing themselves are "cold"...
Well it's selfish to put yourself in front of others.
Clem slapped Sarah to save her, which is very different from slapping her so that she doesn't disrespect someone again. If she doesn't try to save Sarah, then yes she's becoming like Carver.
It's not selfish to want to survive.
Selfish - (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. Your survival is your main concern, it is selfish because you are concerned about your own personal profit.
It can be. Depends what your desire to survives comes at the expense of.
Alright, The slap is different. Carver forced Carlos to slap Sarah as a show of power. Clem slapped Sarah to snap her out of it and save her.
Clem dooming the 400 days cast is stupid. Clem and her group couldn't stay they were kept prisoner by a crazy villian, After killing Carver they would be killed by his group most likely.
Ah, Double post. Please delete mods.
Ok... I left Sarah. Not because she was the "weakest link," but because I thought there was no way to save her and if you tried, you would get Jane killed. So Clem didn't just get rid of the weakest link and sure wasn't gonna slap her and force her to live for my own circumstances.
Slapping her is not at all a good thing, but it's better than letting her get eaten alive.
Carver also slapped Sarah to save her. He was telling everyone basically what work they needed to do to help survive and keep the community safe and going but Sarah talking to Clem showed that she didnt really care about the community. It wasnt just about disrespect it was a reminder that they are all living in a dire situation.
It was a display of power disguised as "tough love." Sarah wanted to know about how well her friend slept and chose the wrong time to do it - that doesn't at all mean she has a disregard for a community that, in turn, disregards her.
Besides, who would honestly want to work for a piece of shit who tortured your loving father in front of you - specifically to make you scream out in pain and guilt your friends into surrendering - and then murdered an innocent man right before your eyes? Kenny certainly didn't, and his behavior made him a clear 'liability' to Carver's community. People will bend over backwards to justify the unabashed evil of men like Carver, yet have no sympathy for kind (if somewhat dim) girls. I wonder why.
Slapping her as Clem in the trailer is still "tough love" and its a display of power forcing her to live. She was mourning over her father and picked the wrong time to do it.
Also whats so different then Carver's Camp and the dangers of the world outside of Carver's Camp. Sure Caver was a dick but the world outside of his community was a bigger dick. Getting shot and ripped apart by walkers in front of your daughter is a worse fate then getting your fingers broke in front of your daughter.
Your basically a prisoner of death if your living outside of Carver's community and it can be a fate far worse to some. And Carver didnt actively kill Sarah but the thing that Carver and Clem both did was give Sarah a chance to live.
Reggie might not have been the best example to use but still putting Sarah in the outside world effectively created the situation if you eventually abandoning Sarah.
I don't think Clementine is gonna end up as a crazy dictator like Carver.
I already made a thread going over Clem being like Carver and most players not realizing it but you put waaaaay more effort in and made it a lot more cleaner so I like this one better than mine :P
Ya TTG just made it obvious with the new trailer. Also going back to when Kenny is about to beat Carver's face in Carver says "your exactly like me" I was like how the hell but then I realized getting ripped apart and in the cold looks a hell of a lot worse then Carver's Camp.
Clementine, Kenny, Luke, Mike and Bonnie will fuse together to form Voltron
I agree with what others have said. Carver did what he did as a show of his power. He had no reason to throw someone off a roof for the petty reasons he gave. Clementine does what she does because she genuinely cares about the group and wants to help everyone survive. They are in no way alike in my eyes and I certainly dont play my Clem that way.
Its not about being a crazy dictator its about doing what needs to be done to insure survival for your group.
Well he did have a reason partly. Everyone had to do their part for the community to run. All Reggie was tasked to do was make sure little girls tend to berries for 5 minutes but he failed to do that small task. Not saying I would push Reggie off a roof but not doing a task as small as that would get him or someone else killed outside of Carver's community.
Its the same as Luke going off to have sex rather than doing his part in watching. If Luke didnt go have a quicky Sarah might of still been alive if he spotted walkers before they were even on to them so they could hide.
Its not about power its about the efficiency to survive.
Well, I dont think not making sure a couple kids do a gardening job right is the same as something that would get someone else killed. Carver way over reacted and I think he did it just as a lesson to Clementine and Sarah. Reggie obviously meant nothing to him. People make mistakes but that doesnt mean they deserve to die for it. What Reggie did was so trivial that if it had been anyone else Carver probably would have let it slide. Carver reminds me a lot of the Governor from the tv show and books (not so much the comic as he was super crazy already). He puts on this face that makes you trust him and makes you think he cares for you, but underneath, he truly is a monster. He thrives on power and manipulation. The governor led two separate groups of people to destruction because they believed in him but did he care about them? No, just what he could get from them. I wish he had gotten more of Carver because I would have liked to know if he was as I saw him or is there more to him thank the monster we saw?
I'm already Carver.
In reality if you were trying to set up a community in a zombie apocalypse you couldn't just cut corners. They are just kids doing a gardening job but that gardening job helps insure their and everyone else s survival. Its not like the world was set right already their are still task that must be done.
Reggie also loses his arm from slacking off and not paying attention, there are also hints of lots of fuck ups, and all he had to do was make sure little girls cut leafs for 5 mins. Sure Carver pushing him over the edge was very fucked up but how is that any different from trying to survive in the outside world. The world outside of Carver's Camp also kills fuck ups and slackers. Carver was just inducing and example of what would happen to Reggie outside of the camp.
Getting back to Clementine, she doesn't exhibit this kind of "survival of the fittest" attitude where if you mess up, no matter how much you try to put things right, you are not fit to live. How do we even know that Carver's surprise visit wasn't set up to do just what he did? I think you're right about Carver using Reggie as an example, but I saw it as more an example of "See what happens to you if you cross me."
Well the player as Clementine exhibits a lot of "survival of the fittest" attitudes subconsciously and its actually presented through player choices.
It all depends on what you have chosen.
And since the player is both Lee and Clem then as Lee if you decided to let Ben go at the bell tower then you found Ben not fit to live and that choice reflects on Clem (since the player is Clem).
Carver's surprise visit didn't set up anything. Carver is just a reflection of who you could become depending on what choices you have made.
Well, Im afraid I dont see things quite the way you do, especially about Carver.
That IS being a crazy dictator. The dictator chooses who is saveable and who is not, thus defining who is in 'the group'; everyone else be damned.
She won't be Carver, I refuse to turn her into something generic, overdone, and lame like Carver.
On the contrary, I'd rather risk my chances with the undead than humans - they're dumber, bear no malice, and can never learn. I also find it funny that you're somehow trying to justify outright torture as "better" than killing someone. Should we all get cookies for doing the minimal effort of not being worthless human beings?
One of the things I like to believe about The Walking Dead series is that the zombies weren't actually responsible for the 'apocalypse' - rather, it was the stupidity and greed of people taking advantage of the initial panic that allowed for society to break down.
My Clem won't become Carver.. at least not while im around to influence her decisions.
I don't know if Carver really was that insane to plan a murder right in front of children in order to intimidate them - it was more a spur of the moment. Regardless, he was able to rationalize Reggie's death like a true sociopath and has no inkling of why rational, sensible people would ever disagree with him.
I dont know. I really wouldnt put anything past a man who forces someone to slap their own child to the ground.
Like you I also I didn't understand it at first when Carver tells Clem that she's exactly like him. But after rewatching the scenes of Carver with no bias not saying "omg no don't listen to him" he actually makes good points and he never tells a lie. He wasn't trying to brain wash Clem he's just pointing out how much they are alike the whole time.
We can argue about this for awhile but every choice in the walking dead has some factor of survival of the fittest. You may lie to yourself saying "I didn't make that life or death choice based on survival of the fittest" but the irony of that statement is the fact that every life and death choice is about survival of the fittest.
If that were true, people wouldn't go out of their way to help people who were weak or helpless, like babies. Some people do think this way but not everyone does. Lee took Clementine with him because he knew she would die if he didn't. He wasnt thinking in terms of "Little kid going to slow me down. It's my survival first."
Clementine would never beat a man into near-death just because he was protecting his wife. Clementine would never murder someone over berries. Clementine would never torture someone purely to intimidate someone she supposedly loves to surrender.
Clementine would never be morally twisted enough to forget how human beings actually function.
Nor did Caver. Carver took in little girls and fuckups.
But still bringing back up the choice of dropping Ben or saving Ben. A person that's like Carver would drop him where as person that's not like Carver would save him. Dropping him would be justified though since he's a risk.
Still makes you lose part of humanity, I'd rather die a hero than a villain..
Not saying I'd side with Carver. Just Proving as the title of the thread states: "Your Clem could be turning into Carver"