Nor does Lee regretting his murder make it right, but you JUST used that above as a reason why lee doing it was okay!
Quote: 'When he spoke about it, he regretted it.'. You were using that as a reason why Lee's was justified.
No, they both had reasons. They were both just stupid reasons.
Lee's reason was' this man slept with my wife'. Lilly's reason was 'she said I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'.
Now, on their own, Lee's reason is more understandable, but still that doesn't mean Lilyl had NO reason.
Moving on, Lilly's motivations are FAR more complex than Lee's. She was extremely mentally unstable at the beginning of episode 3, whereas Lee wasn't before finding the lvoer as far as we know. Therefore, Lilly's 'reasons' are very complicated, and all intertwined with her growing sense of inadequacy and inability to help people.
So Lilly's reason was that she didn't care? That is a hardly a reason to kill. if she didn't care about anyone other then herself then she could of just left.
No, they both had reasons. They were both just stupid reasons.
Lee's reason was' this man slept with my wife'. Lilly's reason was 'she sa… moreid I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'.
Now, on their own, Lee's reason is more understandable, but still that doesn't mean Lilyl had NO reason.
Moving on, Lilly's motivations are FAR more complex than Lee's. She was extremely mentally unstable at the beginning of episode 3, whereas Lee wasn't before finding the lvoer as far as we know. Therefore, Lilly's 'reasons' are very complicated, and all intertwined with her growing sense of inadequacy and inability to help people.
But they were. Still. Reasons.
Have you been ignoring everything I've said? Because you're not actually responding to the points I make.
Lilly didn't kill Carley JUST because she suspected her. You can't just say 'she killed her for no reason' and then OPENLY IGNORE the reasons I've given you.
She was depressed, insecure, and thought that everyone hates her. Carley, unfortunately, pushed her over the edge. This led to her death.
Lilly didn't need as strong proof to get as angry as Lee did because she was ALREADY angry, unlike Lee.
But still, she had a REASON. We CAN say 'Lilly killed Carley because x'. Which shows she DID have a reason.
Fact is Lee had proof and acted. Lilly had no proof and killed Carley. I don't care if she had problems after her father's death. If anyone in the group did what she did, Then I would also exile them from the group.
No, I never said that. PLEASE read what I'm saying. The fact that my replies are much longer in this discussion of ours shows that you're not considering all my points in full.
She WANTED to help people. She DID care. Otherwise she wouldn't have tried to save them from the bandits.
But Carley says she DOESN'T care about anyone, which made Lilly incredibly angry due to the bullying she had already faced from Kenny, and her father's death.
But again, whether something isn't a GOOD reason or not, it's still a REASON. It IS hardly a reason to kill, isn't it? But for Lilly it WAS. Because she was in a horrific mental state.
So Lilly's reason was that she didn't care? That is a hardly a reason to kill. if she didn't care about anyone other then herself then she could of just left.
I actually used to hate Lily. My first play through I mostly sided with Kenny the first two episodes including on the decision to Saltlick Larry. So naturally she was a huge bitch to me and I hated her and when she shot Carley I said that's it you're not coming with us. However recently I did a play through in which I side with Lily most of the time and it revealed a side to her character i didn't even know existed. She was just trying to make the best of it for her group whether people hated her decisions or not they were always made with the group in mind. And shooting Carley was just a build up of stress and instability unwinding in the worst way possible. She regrets it sure but it still was absolutely wrong to do. I now like her character a lot more and she's more understandable now that I've got the play through with siding with her done. She has flaws like every other character but all in all I think she's a awesome character now
I actually used to hate Lily. My first play through I mostly sided with Kenny the first two episodes including on the decision to Saltlick L… morearry. So naturally she was a huge bitch to me and I hated her and when she shot Carley I said that's it you're not coming with us. However recently I did a play through in which I side with Lily most of the time and it revealed a side to her character i didn't even know existed. She was just trying to make the best of it for her group whether people hated her decisions or not they were always made with the group in mind. And shooting Carley was just a build up of stress and instability unwinding in the worst way possible. She regrets it sure but it still was absolutely wrong to do. I now like her character a lot more and she's more understandable now that I've got the play through with siding with her done. She has flaws like every other character but all in all I think she's a awesome character now
"Lilly's reason was 'she said I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'."
You said that 3 posts above but nevermind. i can't be asked anymore.
No, I never said that. PLEASE read what I'm saying. The fact that my replies are much longer in this discussion of ours shows that you're no… moret considering all my points in full.
She WANTED to help people. She DID care. Otherwise she wouldn't have tried to save them from the bandits.
But Carley says she DOESN'T care about anyone, which made Lilly incredibly angry due to the bullying she had already faced from Kenny, and her father's death.
But again, whether something isn't a GOOD reason or not, it's still a REASON. It IS hardly a reason to kill, isn't it? But for Lilly it WAS. Because she was in a horrific mental state.
Lilly's actions are essentially the same as Lee's, and she doesn't deserve the death penalty for them.
Wow, haha, that was quite drawn out, but I'm glad we agree in the end awesome when arguments on a forum have an ending instead of one person just stopping to reply and refusing to change his mind.
But when this happens, an actually conclusion, it makes me really happy. Props dude, thanks for an interesting debate.
"Lilly's reason was 'she said I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'."
You said that 3 posts above but nevermind. i can't be asked anymore.
Oh good, so we're in agreement then
Lilly's actions are essentially the same as Lee's, and she doesn't deserve the death penalty for the… morem.
Wow, haha, that was quite drawn out, but I'm glad we agree in the end awesome when arguments on a forum have an ending instead of one person just stopping to reply and refusing to change his mind.
But when this happens, an actually conclusion, it makes me really happy. Props dude, thanks for an interesting debate.
Well, Yeah, My Lee tried to keep everyone in check and not to make enemies with anyone. But Kenny kept pushing the idea of total obsession about him, which REALLY pissed off. I helped Lilly whenever I could, I even went through the pain of watching the death of Carley twice because the first time, i was so pissed off that i abandoned her and exited the game, Didn't even wait till the next auto-save, But she just took the RV and ran away. I really hate her ever since.
Well, Yeah, My Lee tried to keep everyone in check and not to make enemies with anyone. But Kenny kept pushing the idea of total obsession a… morebout him, which REALLY pissed off. I helped Lilly whenever I could, I even went through the pain of watching the death of Carley twice because the first time, i was so pissed off that i abandoned her and exited the game, Didn't even wait till the next auto-save, But she just took the RV and ran away. I really hate her ever since.
"Lilly's reason was 'she said I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'."
You said that 3 posts above but nevermind. i can't be asked anymore.
"Lilly's reason was 'she said I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'."
You said that 3 posts above but nevermind. i can't be asked anymore.
She took the RV because she thought the group hated her apart from Lee.
I don't like that she took it, but I understand why she did it. Same as killing Carley. I can empathise with those intense feelings of anger.
But like you said, you can see why she did it, it still doesn't make what she did any less objectively bad. She killed another member of the group out of pure paranoia and spite how can you respect that?
She took the RV because she thought the group hated her apart from Lee.
I don't like that she took it, but I understand why she did it. Same as killing Carley. I can empathise with those intense feelings of anger.
Absolutely not, but I forgave Lee after he murdered, and Lilly clearly regrets her deed, and as I understand it, I';m willing to forgive her as I did with Lee.
I'm not remotely trying to say what she did was right. Nor did I ever say I respect it (I would, again, like people to stop puttting words in my mouth).
But like you said, you can see why she did it, it still doesn't make what she did any less objectively bad. She killed another member of the group out of pure paranoia and spite how can you respect that?
But that proves that you only feel angry at her because you liked Carley, not because she snapped. Which means, as she feels guilty for it, you should forgive her.
So you're willing to forgive Lilly for killing someone and running off with the RV, but when it comes to Kenny getting angry and swearing at Clem that's not acceptable?
Absolutely not, but I forgave Lee after he murdered, and Lilly clearly regrets her deed, and as I understand it, I';m willing to forgive her… more as I did with Lee.
I'm not remotely trying to say what she did was right. Nor did I ever say I respect it (I would, again, like people to stop puttting words in my mouth).
I will forgive Lilly if she apolgises, and I will forgive Kenny if he apologises.
BUT, I have seen that Lilly regrets her action in her face after doing it. Whereas, Kenny has not given any sign that he feels bad for making clem upset in the 99% of playthroughs where Clem isn't mute.
So in that respect, Lilly has one up on Kenny in that circumstance because she feels remorse for it.
So you're willing to forgive Lilly for killing someone and running off with the RV, but when it comes to Kenny getting angry and swearing at Clem that's not acceptable?
Kenny ran off and left Clementine in the hoard of walkers. This one is pretty much like killing Clementine ( She can die uncannonly in the hoard of zombies) Also If you dont side with Kenny he lets Lee find Clementine alone.
So you're willing to forgive Lilly for killing someone and running off with the RV, but when it comes to Kenny getting angry and swearing at Clem that's not acceptable?
"She couldn't be trusted Lee, I was trying to protect all of us."
"I'm a murderer? You've had Lee with you this whole time!"
Those quotes showed how desperate she was for trying to get the blame off herself and trying to defend her actions. Just because she looked upset with what she did doesn't make her actions in trying to defend herself any less pathetic. Even if you've been with Lilly up until that point and you even dare just to tell her about your past, she still rats you out to everyone to save her own skin.
How can I accept an apology from a woman that would be so willing to defend killing someone as well as ratting out a good friend in order to save their own backside?
I will forgive Lilly if she apolgises, and I will forgive Kenny if he apologises.
BUT, I have seen that Lilly regrets her action in her f… moreace after doing it. Whereas, Kenny has not given any sign that he feels bad for making clem upset in the 99% of playthroughs where Clem isn't mute.
So in that respect, Lilly has one up on Kenny in that circumstance because she feels remorse for it.
Kenny ran off and left Clementine in the hoard of walkers. This one is pretty much like killing Clementine ( She can die uncannonly in the hoard of zombies) Also If you dont side with Kenny he lets Lee find Clementine alone.
Look for what its worth I agree with you, especially in my game where she didnt even intend to kill Doug but if people want to kill her for it they can as thats there choice,
She was in shock, and people in shock do things like try to get people to stop looking at them.
The point about Lee, in addition, is extremely valid.
You raise good points, but ones that I have already considered. She does not act perfectly in that scene. But we can see she is guilty, and in my playthrough she even apologised to me for it ('I'm sorry Lee. I truly am.'
When she's convinced everyone loathes her, she gets desperate, and tries to convince them that she shouldn't be left to die as what she did and what Lee did are extremely similar. That's annoying, yes, and rude, and she shouldn't have done it. But I can understand why she did it, still.
And I supplement my point with the fact that Kenny, while not ratting you out, does leave you to DIE, and leaves Clem to die once and determinantely twice. Without apolgising or showing any remorse at all.
Lilly only cares about herself in that 20 second scene after she shot carley. But Kenny spends about half an hour of episode 4 only caring about himself, without showing remorse for leaving Clem to die amongst the walkers, and I've never once seen you critisising him for it.
What I'm trying to say is, what Lilly did is really bad. But in total, it's no worse than things Kenny does philosophically.
"She couldn't be trusted Lee, I was trying to protect all of us."
"I'm a murderer? You've had Lee with you this whole time!"
Those quo… moretes showed how desperate she was for trying to get the blame off herself and trying to defend her actions. Just because she looked upset with what she did doesn't make her actions in trying to defend herself any less pathetic. Even if you've been with Lilly up until that point and you even dare just to tell her about your past, she still rats you out to everyone to save her own skin.
How can I accept an apology from a woman that would be so willing to defend killing someone as well as ratting out a good friend in order to save their own backside?
Sure everyone got seperated but Kenny found Clementine and just ran away from her after she Sarita is bit. Also yes I blame her death on Mike too, also Mike can also kill her uncannonly in episode 3 so hes also guilty <
Sure everyone got seperated but Kenny found Clementine and just ran away from her after she Sarita is bit. Also yes I blame her death on Mike too, also Mike can also kill her uncannonly in episode 3 so hes also guilty <
Both are pretty crap at holding themselves up which I kinda like now, because Telltale probably meant to show you both can be good, but then both can be absolote morons in some cases. With Lilly killing Carley out of pure spite and paranoia and Kenny denying Lee any help in finding Clementine.
Non are perfect and despite what people might like to think I'm not a Kenny fanboy, I just get annoyed when people often at times think Kenny is the devil yet would forget that Lilly while regrettably, killed someone and stole the RV leaving everyone out on that road.
You can still see in her face she's sad.
She was in shock, and people in shock do things like try to get people to stop looking at them.
… more
The point about Lee, in addition, is extremely valid.
You raise good points, but ones that I have already considered. She does not act perfectly in that scene. But we can see she is guilty, and in my playthrough she even apologised to me for it ('I'm sorry Lee. I truly am.'
When she's convinced everyone loathes her, she gets desperate, and tries to convince them that she shouldn't be left to die as what she did and what Lee did are extremely similar. That's annoying, yes, and rude, and she shouldn't have done it. But I can understand why she did it, still.
And I supplement my point with the fact that Kenny, while not ratting you out, does leave you to DIE, and leaves Clem to die once and determinantely twice. Without apolgising or showing any remorse at all.
Lilly only cares about herself i… [view original content]
Lol it's not all about the little girl you know :P For the past three episodes she's shown everyone she's capable of looking out for herself reasonably, and in that moment everyone was out for themselves, it can't all be "PROTECT CLEMENTINE" "WE HAVE TO KEEP HER SAFE"
The whole point of Season 2 is proving your own ability to survive, if you had everyone looking out for you when times got tough where would the challenge be for Clementine?
But that proves that you only feel angry at her because you liked Carley, not because she snapped. Which means, as she feels guilty for it, you should forgive her.
Comments
Okay they both regretted it, But Lee had a reason, Lilly had none.
No, they both had reasons. They were both just stupid reasons.
Lee's reason was' this man slept with my wife'. Lilly's reason was 'she said I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'.
Now, on their own, Lee's reason is more understandable, but still that doesn't mean Lilyl had NO reason.
Moving on, Lilly's motivations are FAR more complex than Lee's. She was extremely mentally unstable at the beginning of episode 3, whereas Lee wasn't before finding the lvoer as far as we know. Therefore, Lilly's 'reasons' are very complicated, and all intertwined with her growing sense of inadequacy and inability to help people.
But they were. Still. Reasons.
So Lilly's reason was that she didn't care? That is a hardly a reason to kill. if she didn't care about anyone other then herself then she could of just left.
Have you been ignoring everything I've said? Because you're not actually responding to the points I make.
Lilly didn't kill Carley JUST because she suspected her. You can't just say 'she killed her for no reason' and then OPENLY IGNORE the reasons I've given you.
She was depressed, insecure, and thought that everyone hates her. Carley, unfortunately, pushed her over the edge. This led to her death.
Lilly didn't need as strong proof to get as angry as Lee did because she was ALREADY angry, unlike Lee.
But still, she had a REASON. We CAN say 'Lilly killed Carley because x'. Which shows she DID have a reason.
No, I never said that. PLEASE read what I'm saying. The fact that my replies are much longer in this discussion of ours shows that you're not considering all my points in full.
She WANTED to help people. She DID care. Otherwise she wouldn't have tried to save them from the bandits.
But Carley says she DOESN'T care about anyone, which made Lilly incredibly angry due to the bullying she had already faced from Kenny, and her father's death.
But again, whether something isn't a GOOD reason or not, it's still a REASON. It IS hardly a reason to kill, isn't it? But for Lilly it WAS. Because she was in a horrific mental state.
I actually used to hate Lily. My first play through I mostly sided with Kenny the first two episodes including on the decision to Saltlick Larry. So naturally she was a huge bitch to me and I hated her and when she shot Carley I said that's it you're not coming with us. However recently I did a play through in which I side with Lily most of the time and it revealed a side to her character i didn't even know existed. She was just trying to make the best of it for her group whether people hated her decisions or not they were always made with the group in mind. And shooting Carley was just a build up of stress and instability unwinding in the worst way possible. She regrets it sure but it still was absolutely wrong to do. I now like her character a lot more and she's more understandable now that I've got the play through with siding with her done. She has flaws like every other character but all in all I think she's a awesome character now
I always sided with Lilly, I hated Kenny cuz he is a stupid hypocrite.
Yep, completely agree.
Doing a playthrough where you side with Lilly really shows who she actually is.
"Lilly's reason was 'she said I don't care about anyone else other than myself and I don't want to help anyone'."
You said that 3 posts above but nevermind. i can't be asked anymore.
Anti-Lilly, Pro-Carley.
Oh good, so we're in agreement then
Lilly's actions are essentially the same as Lee's, and she doesn't deserve the death penalty for them.
Wow, haha, that was quite drawn out, but I'm glad we agree in the end
awesome when arguments on a forum have an ending instead of one person just stopping to reply and refusing to change his mind.
But when this happens, an actually conclusion, it makes me really happy. Props dude, thanks for an interesting debate.
Hahaha. No problem. Just wanted to hear what you thought and tell you what I thought.
You can be both, considering Lilly regrets what she did to Carley.
Well, Yeah, My Lee tried to keep everyone in check and not to make enemies with anyone. But Kenny kept pushing the idea of total obsession about him, which REALLY pissed off. I helped Lilly whenever I could, I even went through the pain of watching the death of Carley twice because the first time, i was so pissed off that i abandoned her and exited the game, Didn't even wait till the next auto-save, But she just took the RV and ran away. I really hate her ever since.
She took the RV because she thought the group hated her apart from Lee.
I don't like that she took it, but I understand why she did it. Same as killing Carley. I can empathise with those intense feelings of anger.
EDIT: Double post.
BTW, that quote is referring to what Carley said about Lilly. Carley said Lilly didn't care about anyone else.
Oh.
Carley held a very high value to me, So I can't empathise with that.
But like you said, you can see why she did it, it still doesn't make what she did any less objectively bad. She killed another member of the group out of pure paranoia and spite how can you respect that?
Absolutely not, but I forgave Lee after he murdered, and Lilly clearly regrets her deed, and as I understand it, I';m willing to forgive her as I did with Lee.
I'm not remotely trying to say what she did was right. Nor did I ever say I respect it (I would, again, like people to stop puttting words in my mouth).
But that proves that you only feel angry at her because you liked Carley, not because she snapped. Which means, as she feels guilty for it, you should forgive her.
So you're willing to forgive Lilly for killing someone and running off with the RV, but when it comes to Kenny getting angry and swearing at Clem that's not acceptable?
Yeah.
I will forgive Lilly if she apolgises, and I will forgive Kenny if he apologises.
BUT, I have seen that Lilly regrets her action in her face after doing it. Whereas, Kenny has not given any sign that he feels bad for making clem upset in the 99% of playthroughs where Clem isn't mute.
So in that respect, Lilly has one up on Kenny in that circumstance because she feels remorse for it.
Kenny ran off and left Clementine in the hoard of walkers. This one is pretty much like killing Clementine ( She can die uncannonly in the hoard of zombies) Also If you dont side with Kenny he lets Lee find Clementine alone.
"She couldn't be trusted Lee, I was trying to protect all of us."
"I'm a murderer? You've had Lee with you this whole time!"
Those quotes showed how desperate she was for trying to get the blame off herself and trying to defend her actions. Just because she looked upset with what she did doesn't make her actions in trying to defend herself any less pathetic. Even if you've been with Lilly up until that point and you even dare just to tell her about your past, she still rats you out to everyone to save her own skin.
How can I accept an apology from a woman that would be so willing to defend killing someone as well as ratting out a good friend in order to save their own backside?
Everyone ran off. Luke, Nick, Mike, Bonnie. Everyone had to get out of there, are you going to blame her death on Mike too?
Look for what its worth I agree with you, especially in my game where she didnt even intend to kill Doug but if people want to kill her for it they can as thats there choice,
You can still see in her face she's sad.
She was in shock, and people in shock do things like try to get people to stop looking at them.
The point about Lee, in addition, is extremely valid.
You raise good points, but ones that I have already considered. She does not act perfectly in that scene. But we can see she is guilty, and in my playthrough she even apologised to me for it ('I'm sorry Lee. I truly am.'
When she's convinced everyone loathes her, she gets desperate, and tries to convince them that she shouldn't be left to die as what she did and what Lee did are extremely similar. That's annoying, yes, and rude, and she shouldn't have done it. But I can understand why she did it, still.
And I supplement my point with the fact that Kenny, while not ratting you out, does leave you to DIE, and leaves Clem to die once and determinantely twice. Without apolgising or showing any remorse at all.
Lilly only cares about herself in that 20 second scene after she shot carley. But Kenny spends about half an hour of episode 4 only caring about himself, without showing remorse for leaving Clem to die amongst the walkers, and I've never once seen you critisising him for it.
What I'm trying to say is, what Lilly did is really bad. But in total, it's no worse than things Kenny does philosophically.
Sure everyone got seperated but Kenny found Clementine and just ran away from her after she Sarita is bit. Also yes I blame her death on Mike too, also Mike can also kill her uncannonly in episode 3 so hes also guilty
<
Well she was technically following them until a walker got in the way :P
Yeah but still they couldve let Clementine infront of them but nope they just ran away
Both are pretty crap at holding themselves up which I kinda like now, because Telltale probably meant to show you both can be good, but then both can be absolote morons in some cases. With Lilly killing Carley out of pure spite and paranoia and Kenny denying Lee any help in finding Clementine.
Non are perfect and despite what people might like to think I'm not a Kenny fanboy, I just get annoyed when people often at times think Kenny is the devil yet would forget that Lilly while regrettably, killed someone and stole the RV leaving everyone out on that road.
Lol it's not all about the little girl you know :P For the past three episodes she's shown everyone she's capable of looking out for herself reasonably, and in that moment everyone was out for themselves, it can't all be "PROTECT CLEMENTINE" "WE HAVE TO KEEP HER SAFE"
The whole point of Season 2 is proving your own ability to survive, if you had everyone looking out for you when times got tough where would the challenge be for Clementine?
I understand that people snap, It happens to everyone, Stress is a bitch. But, I will see about forgiving her if she returns in S3.
then your just like her if you do that.