I still like Mike and Bonnie
Yeah, I said it :P
I’m honestly quite surprised just how much people absolutely detest those two now. They betrayed Clem, I guess, but that doesn’t make them bad people. I guess no one was listening when Bonnie talked about how even good people do bad things in crazy situations?
This happens all the time. Someone screws up in the recent episode, and all the fans are at their throats. It was the same when Kenny left Lee to die under a door. It was the same when Lilly killed Carley. It was the same when Ben admitted to being the traitor. It was the same when Vernon stole the boat. It was the same when Bonnie lied at the lodge. Everyone gets so angry that they were wronged that they don’t stop to look at it from the characters’ point of view.
“I don’t give two shits about what you people think. I got this truck workin’, so I say where we go!” – Kenny
Do you guys really think that any rational person would want to stay with someone like that? Imagine if you didn’t have history with Kenny, that he was some random bearded lunatic who you barely knew, who barked orders at everyone and didn’t give a damn about anyone else. If it had been anyone but Kenny that was acting like this, be it Luke or Mike or whatever, I’m sure most people would’ve wanted to ditch them in a snap.
I definitely would’ve gone with Mike and Bonnie. I’m disappointed that Mike and Bonnie didn’t invite Clem to go with them, but I understand that they were afraid that she was too close to Kenny to want to leave with them, same with the baby. Anyways, I think the blame for that actually goes to the writing, not the characters.
This is a criticism I’ve had about Season Two for ages, and it did not get any better this episode. The game forces, stubbornly and obstinately forces you to have this super close bond with Kenny, regardless of what you want. Clem cries if Kenny dies, no matter what you think of him. Clem cries when Kenny offers to leave her at Wellington. Everyone in the game always assumes that Clem shares a close bond with Kenny. Guess what Mike and Bonnie, I don’t care about Kenny, it was safe to ask me to leave him. Same to you Jane, you didn’t have to pull that stunt with AJ to convince me to leave Kenny.
I cared more about Luke, yet there was no crying from Clem there. I cared about Mike and Bonnie and Jane just as much, if not more, than I cared about Kenny, yet everything and everyone in the game insists that Kenny is Clem’s best pal, despite the fact that nothing in Season 1 ever showed any indication that Clem even liked Kenny. Jane asked me how much the fact that I knew him longest is worth to me. It was worth nothing to me. I valued my friendship with her and Bonnie and Mike far more than I did Kenny. I greatly appreciated how much Kenny cared about the kids this episode, but the fact remains that if your name wasn’t AJ or Clem, he wouldn’t hesitate to throw you to the wolves. And as someone who liked Bonnie and Mike and Luke and Jane, that was not okay with me.
Also, I should mention that I tried to help Luke, so Bonnie wasn’t a bitch to me. Instead, we talked about how Luke was a good guy, and she apologized again for lying at the lodge and told me that I should start thinking more about what I wanted instead of listening to everyone else. She was horrified when Clem was shot and clearly wanted to help, and only left because she and Mike knew Kenny would blame them for it. They knew that the second anything goes wrong, Kenny needs to find someone to hurt and place the blame on. That’s what he did to Lee when Duck was bit. What he did to Ben in Savannah. What he did to Clem after Sarita. What he did to Arvo after the shoot out.
And I agree that it was very unfair of Bonnie to determinately blame Clem for Luke’s death if you covered him, but remember that it’s implied Bonnie loved him. She indirectly got him killed by trying to help him when Luke warned her not to, so of course she felt horrible and wanted to take out her anger somewhere. This was the exact same thing that Kenny did to Clem in Episode 4. They were both hurt and felt horrible for not being able to save someone they cared about, and they lashed out. And yet Kenny is the only one who gets a free pass.
I can even understand why Arvo shot Clem, especially if she called out for help. She was risking his chance to escape the crazy bully that had been abusing him for days. And if Clem tries to give up the gun? He’s much less sympathetic there, but I still understand that he was a paranoid wreck after everything that had happened to him and wasn’t sure if Clem was being honest. Remember that he was irrational and paranoid that the group was lying about Jane not being with them, that she was waiting to ambush them before the shootout, and that was before he even lost his sister. Mike was right, just how crazy about escaping would Arvo have been if Kenny hadn’t treated him like absolute shit, and for what? Trying to stop the shoot out? Because that’s what he was doing at the end of Episode 4.
If anything, Mike and Bonnie’s real crime was trying to take everything from the group. But correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anything in that scene actually suggested that they were going to leave Clem behind in the first place?. We see them loading up the supplies and getting the truck started, and that’s when Clem caught them. It’s entirely possible that Bonnie and Mike were planning on asking Clem to leave with them, but were waiting until they were ready to leave at a moment’s notice, in case Clem tried to rat them out to Kenny. Mike seemed completely okay with Clem coming with then when she was the one who asked them after all.
I dunno, Bonnie is a determinate character now, so it's unlikely we'll ever see her and Mike again anyways. It was fun while it lasted guys. Shame we never caught that racoon.
Comments
I don't blame them for wanting to leave the group. I just wish we had an option to go with them and bring AJ with us (and leave that fucker Arvo behind)
I still like Mike. Bonnie's another story entirely. She had her one shot at being trusted after betraying the group once to Carver. She did it again. Even though she's angry at Mike after Clem is shot. She's a traitor. Mike, I think he was acting out of a mixture of fear and misplaced concern. I think he would have taken Clem with him. I still am angry at him - but don't HATE him. I hate arvo. I severely dislike Bonnie and if I see her again I'd probably threaten to kill her, or at the very least make it very apparent every step of the way that I don't trust her. And if I had to choose about killing her/not saving her, I probably would let her die. Because she'll just betray Clem again a third time.
Arvo. Arvo's a dead man. Not even going to be a fast death. It's going to be a torturous one if he isnt killed by Mike and Bonnie (or if Kenny or Jane hadnt killed him while Clem was unconscious).
Mike is still my favorite character but Bonnie can go drown in a lake.
Oh wait.
You know, I would have loved if the game gave you the choice of going with Mike and Bonnie. Of course, this would drastically change the events of the ending but they could still could have included it in some way. An easy solution would be to have Arvo shoot you regardless if you decide to go or stay. The events would stay the same, and not much would change, but it still would be pretty neat.
I really do hope Mike and Arvo come back, I honestly do...
So I can fucking kill them
I'm not gonna hold it against them. They were scared, and rightfully so. Still disappointed though.
I was starting to feel sorry for Arvo, but then THAT happened.
Bonnie and Mike, they're still cool, but Arvo sucks so
I'll hunt you down in season 3 Arvo...
I still like Mike, I believe he had good intentions. And I think you're right, that they were planning on bringing Clem.
Bonnie is the one I don't know what to think of...but she definitely wasn't thinking clearly after Luke's death, and she felt extremely bad about Clem getting shot (in my game at least).
I still like Arvo, I thought him shooting Clem was more of an "I'm getting revenge on the person who killed my sister" kind of thing, because we have no idea whether or not he knew she had turned into a zombie, or if he knew that you have to destroy the brain for them to not reanimate.
Mike and Bonnie were completely reasonable of their decisions. And When i asked them to take me with them, Mike smiled when i did as well. They likely thought to leave me behind initially because they unanimously knew that Kenny AND Jane would never hurt Clementine. (shame they don't know how abusive they can be though).
Kenny was dangerous and In my playthrough when I asked to leave and handed over the gun, Mike and Bonnie wanted me to come too. Till Arvo fucked up.
Also it makes perfect sense that they would run away after Clem got shot. Kenny had a vendetta against Arvo (and even if Mike and Bonnie would have explained themselves, just the fact that they were stealing the truck would have caused Kenny to shoot them) and Jane would have slit their throats for shooting clementine since she is unhinged herself and eerily possessive. So when Bonnie shouted she cant leave me, Mike literally meant "We have no other choice we gotta go". I'm glad they escaped, I wouldnt wan't them near Jane OR Kenny. It's just sad they have to deal with murderous Russian Harry Potter.
Yeah.. NO.. Mike is ok, hes just dumb and easy to manipulate. But fck Bonnie and Arvo! That Arvo asshole - i let him keep the pills, and he betrayed us with an ambush, i wish there was an option to shoot him on the spot back in the forest.
And Bonnie, i never liked that btch, first she was with carver, and than she runs in to help the drowning guy, while he tells her to leave him alone, and of course the ice breaks, he mightve gotten out if not for her, flat on his stomach and than that btch blames clem ?! Fck that! She deserves a radical cognital recalibration with a well aimed bullet! She is now my most hated char in the game.
So did you hate Kenny when he blamed Clem for Sarita's death? Same situation, really. Kenny didn't have the sense to stay and look out for his girlfriend while they were in the middle of a zombie hoard, leaving it up to Clem to help her. He couldn't save someone he cared about, so he blamed Clem.
You can't justify that shit, Clem had nothing to do with it, she did nothing. And regardless if she stole the supplies or not she didn't try to cap his sister or deliver the final blow anyway. Arvo however, led his group after Clem and co. and tried to fuck them up. Shot Clem, tried to abandon the group and wouldn't give two shits if she died right there and then. How you can like someone like that I don't know, like I give a shit if he's a scared kid, he had it lucky. If I were Kenny I would of beat that little Ruskie fucker to death while he was tied up in his sleep.
I was angry at them for taking everything and leaving Clementine and the baby with nothin, I understood they wanted to leave. Had they left one of the bags and the truck then I would have let them go silently.
I don't think Arvo knew that though. During the shoot out, he was trying to revive his sister so he was obviously convinced she was alive, and he was looking the opposite way when she turned and Clem shot her because Kenny was holding him hostage. Clem never talked to him about his sister either, so from his point of view, Clem murdered his sister. Which makes his anger towards Clem a whole lot more understandable.
I thought Mike was like Lee, someone who'd want to keep the group together, I think a lot if people did.
And for Bonnie, telling Clementine to run on thin ice was stupid. And then she offered her a cigarette.
I'd argue that Mike wanted to keep the group together by leaving Kenny, seeing as he was the one who was tearing the group apart and prompted Mike and Bonnie to leave in the first place.
And Bonnie was no stupider than Lee when he put Clem through that cage in the train station, or Omid when he told Clem to wash up alone at the gas station. Anyways, Nick and Jane both offered Clem alcohol, so I don't really care about the cigar.
I didn't give a shit about him, it was his fault this all happened and if he didn't go crying to his nexus of commies then this wouldn't of happened in the first place. His sisters blood is on his hands, no need to go waving the stick and blame a kid. Arvo is nothing but a snake, comes out smiling with all his pals then tries to kill us all. That resulted in a shoot out and then the death of his sister. Oh well, tough shit Arvo, learn to live with it.
Arvo was pleading with everyone not to shoot at the end of episode 4. The Russians weren't planning on killing anyone. And Jane and Clem were just as much to blame for what happened, since Arvo's group wouldn't have tried to rob the group if they hadn't threatened and robbed Arvo.
I'd be okay with Mike if him, Bonnie, and Arvo had left half of the supplies with us. He was all but killing us by attempting to take them all and steal the truck. That's not shitbird level, but it's close. I can understand he felt like he had to leave, and if Arvo and Bonnie were his only allies (and they wanted to steal the shit), I can see him just going along because he had no choice.
As for Bonnie, she lost a lot of my respect when she gave me shit for how I tried to help Luke, and then earned shitbird status when I realized she was trying to steal all our shit. I only wish I had known how to make sure she dies during the Ice part because after seeing how she tries to screw us over, she deserves to die. I guess I should give her more slack considering she might be in the same spot Mike is, but Mike was pretty upstanding throughout the very little time we got to know him. Bonnie, on the other hand, was always changing her loyalties and back-stabbed us a few times.
Arvo. Wow, just fuck you, Arvo. I actually don't hate that you glared at Clem, or blamed her irrationally for your sister's death, but my Clem was cool to you and you were nothing but a piece of shit to her. As soon as I saw him swing that rifle around, I was going to shoot him right in the head. I was quite disappointed TTG didn't let us b/c I don't believe Clem would have stood there aiming her weapon without at least getting a shot off before he shot her. I think she could have killed him (and him still shoot her in the process) so, at the very least, this season's King Shitbird could have met the fate he deserved.
P.S. FUCK YOU, ARVO.
P.P.S. If I ever have a chance to kill Arvo in a future episodes, I probably won't, just to show him what a damn boss Clem is and what a cowardly piece of trash he is...
P.P.P.S. SRSLY, FUCK YOU, ARVO.
Looking through a zombie horde is a dumb idea - its good he didnt do it. Walking (!) not crawling flat on ur stomach on thin ice to some1 who fell in is a VERY stupid idea. The moment i saw that moron run towards him while we were supposed to buy him time by killing the zombies i wanted to scream at the screen - get back btch !
Also i like Kenny, i know hes a nice guy, he said it in the heat of the moment and apollogized later.
On the other hand i know Bonnie to be a traiterous lying bitch that worked for carver, lied from day 1, cant remember her ever being very usefull, and she propably talked mike into leaving and tried stealing ALL the supplies and the car essentially leaving rest of the group to die.
Um, I'm sorry but even if you let Arvo walk away all peachy with the supplies he still comes back with his pals and wants to rob and shoot you. Look, doesn't matter what his intent is, he still put us all in danger. He knew fine well what his group is like, what they do. He was fine with taking everything they owned and leaving them out in the cold like that, practically a death sentence and probably had no qualms of killing them either. He started crying cause his sister died and "didn't want anyone to get shot" only to save his own skin. Well fuckin' sorry but I don't give a shit what that kid wanted, he deserved much more than what he got.
Staying close to your loved one in a zombie horde is dumb? Carlos, idiot doctor extraordinaire was smart enough to keep Clem and Sarah close to him. The moment I saw Kenny randomly wander away from Sarita, I was rolling m eyes at his carelessness. And Kenny isn’t exactly the most reliable person either. His plan in Starved for Help was to abandon the group as soon as he fixed the RV, Mark tells you as much.Bonnie clearly didn’t agree with what Carver did, and she risked her life to help Clem’s group escape. She showed genuine remorse multiple times, and she wasn’t useless. She was good with a gun, and even saved Clem and Sarah in the herd after Carlos died by shooting that walker attacking them. And it’s impossible that she convinced Mike to leave, because he leaves even if she’s dead.
Because Jane stole his gun and threatened to kill him. So of course his group still wanted to rob them. And intent matters a lot, actually. Good people can make mistakes and unintentionally hurt people. Kenny was well intentioned when he shot Jonny and got Walter killed. And actually, the Russian translation showed the group wanted only what Clem's group took from them, and nothing more, and had no intention of killing everyone.
They're traitors.
My Bullets still like Mike and Bonnie.
Please Telltale, make them appear in Season 3 so i can show them my love!
Yeah, too bad. I don't either, actually :P
Too bad I don't speak Russian.
Now I'm in full agreement with Dee here. Fuck Bonnie.
Yeah, too bad. I don't either, actually :P
Well, here's what I want to do:
-Slap Bonnie
-Shoot Arvo
-Make Mike feel ultra mega guilty
That's reasonable.
I hate them and I'm still sad that we never got the choice to shoot them
WHY TELLTALE???
Woo, first post.
But really, I really wish things had turned out, um, differently. Bonnie and Mike are still cool in my book. Not that I'm not peeved, I am. But I would've done the same thing in their situation. Kenny was acting pretty reckless. Bonnie was nice to my Clementine throughout the entirety of the episode and Mike was always nice. Arvo, though. I wouldn't kill him if we saw him again, but like, dude. I backed him up 24/7 and Clem got a bullet in the shoulder for it. Thanks Arvo. Douche. I just wish we could've gone with Bonnie and Mike. I ended up with Jane and the family, and man, I'd reaaaally have preferred Bike. Things just didn't work out.
They were gonna take all the supplies and the truck and possibly leave Clem and a baby to die. Not cool. If they want to leave, nobody's stopping them, but take what you can find and then walk on foot
Well, leaving with Bike would make for some good fanfic material, at least...
I was so confused when he shot me! I backed him up every time. Every. Single. Time.
Sure, I'm mad at him because YOU DON'T SHOOT A LITTLE KID (I didn't even call for help), but I was confused more than anything.
I honestly just, if nothing else, hope to see Arvo in Season 3. I feel like there's so much that can be done with him, because he's only a teenager--he has a lot of growing up to do and obviously hasn't grown as much as Clem. There would even be an interesting morality choice that Clem had to make, whether she'd forgive him for trying to kill her just out of his anger over her 'killing' his sister, or not.
And that fucking leg brace. Never has such a minute detail bothered me so much. Where and why and how did he even get one of those?
Well Lee didn't know there'd be a walker and Omid didn't assume there'd be a girl coming to rob them. It was just there carelessness to check if there was anything there that the plot demanded.
Bonnie on the other hand knew the danger, that the ice would break probably and that walkers were approaching.
Except BONNIE JUST HAS TO LOVE LUKE TO DEATH. Literally if she dies with him.