To all of the people who dont seem to understand Kennys actions
Im getting really pissed by some posts (like Kennys insanity would cause him to kill or rape Clem). Do you even think what you would've done in his position?
This guy lost EVERYONE he ever cared about. First hist son and wife, then Clem (while he thought he'd never see her again, he met a new woman), than Sarita (he truly loved her!). Now AJ shows up and all Kenny cares about is to raise him right and not to loose him like Duck. Thats what causes him the "insanity", the thought about losing his loved one AGAIN. What would you do, if you've sworn to the mother of a child that you would take care of it at no matter cost? He did that, and I can fully understand why he wanted to kill Jane while she LURED HIM to do it. She lied, she wanted to make him finish her. As Kenny says if you rescue him - she did it on purpose, and if she said that AJ is alive and she just hid him, he would've stopped. He got mad because he thought he lost the only person in the world that was his. I cant find anyone who wouldn't have gone mad after losing a child (doesnt matter if it wasnt his, its like a stepfather or a guaridian, you can really get used to baby).
And that Kenny ending? He thinks about Clems and AJ good more than about himself! He wants them to stay in Wellington all alone, while going to the woods and trying to survive on his own, just to make sure they are protected and have a chance. Kenny just wants to be a good father, and dont want to lose his family all over again. And that race to the top of the hill.. My God, after all of the people saying "he is broken, he is insane" (I guess the lie told one hundred times becomes the truth), suddenly he gets better and is really happy. Dont you think it may be because everybody made him this crazy person that everyone was afraid of? Only Clem knew the real Kenny, and only to her he could've show his true colors. The only thing that he wanted was to get to Wellington, and let the kids have a chance to survive. Would Jane do the same? Or would she try to convince Clem that they doesnt need help and can get on their own? Think about it next time you throw a stone in Kennys direction.
Sorry for poor English, greetings from Poland
Comments
I don't agree. Kenny has always struggled to control his temper (and his mouth), being angry at Jane for losing AJ is fine, but he was trying to kill her.
I do feel sorry for Kenny, the blokes been though hell, but that doesn't excuse trying to kill someone.
Good OP, but there is a thread like this already: www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/comment/1517684
As Kenny says if you rescue him - she did it on purpose
That's a given, she specifically sets it up and tells you not to step into the situation and to trust her (obvious she's baiting him).
and if she said that AJ is alive and she just hid him, he would've stopped.
You don't know that. That's an assumption. Kenny acted unpredictably throughout a lot of scenarios.
Dont you think it may be because everybody made him this crazy person that everyone was afraid of?
Nobody made him do anything. Everyone in the game had lost people and family and loved ones. His actions weren't brought on by others.
Only Clem knew the real Kenny, and only to her he could've show his true colors.
Kenny wasn't the same. He had been oblivious to the needs of Clementine several times in the last episode (lighting the fire, shoving her around in the fight at the end).
Would Jane do the same?
Jane pulled me out of the ice. She saved the whole group when she came back to kill the Russian guy. Gave you the tool that kept you from dying of hypothermia.
I can see how people are defending Kenny but I do agree with Jane. He was too unstable and would put people in harm's way for doing what he thought was "right".
haven't seen it, im not on the forum 24/7 looking thru every thread
About hiding AJ, Kenny said this himself, that a word from Jane would be enough to calm him. He just wanted the baby safe.
Also, everything happend within a second with the falling into the lake scene - Kenny wasn't really close to the scene, he was already on the other side, he might've been running to help, we only see Jane because she was close to us at this point, just like Bonnie. Also, Kenny fought the Russians too, dont forget about it. Everybody thought that Jane is far gone, so this was her advantage to sneak on that Ruskie and stealth kill him. If anyone from the group had that advantage, he would've used it.
About the nail file - Jane found it, Jane gave it to Clem. Just a writers idea. This could've been everyone. I dont question her being master of survival, and her being the only person with clear mind at the moment when Clem fell into the lake. Everybody were crazy at this point after losing Luke, Bonnie was cold too (nobody bats an eye).
Kenny wasn't the same, because he was hurt right in the feels. Some people just cant get past through pain as quickly as others, especially when it comes to losing two beloved woman in a row, a kid, and thinking about the possibility of losing another two.
He fought for what he thought was right, and in the end, he showed that he truly was right.
And Jane? I thought she really cared, but what she did to try to prove a point - this is the true insanity.
She helped Rebecca and Clem escape the walkers, helped get Luke and Sarah while trying to prepare Clem for the worst about Sarah, gave her a better weapon, taught her a new skill that works for her size, helped with the Russians, saved Clem in the frozen Lake, tried to start a fire to stop Clem getting ill, watched over her while she slept (in the not finished cabin), gave her some of her food and gave her the nail file.
Meanwhile, Kenny spent most of the time screaming and kicking Arvo, demanding they went to Wellington and refusing to listen to anyone else.
About hiding AJ, Kenny said this himself, that a word from Jane would be enough to calm him
This didn't happen in my playthrough? He just gets pissed about the baby being gone and instantly starts to get physical and violent with Jane.
Kenny wasn't really close to the scene, he was already on the other side, he might've been running to help, we only see Jane because she was close to us at this point, just like Bonnie.
He was on the other side, too focused on blaming Arvo for the whole incident.
Also, Kenny fought the Russians too, dont forget about it.
That isn't the argument. Your question was that "would Jane do the same?" and the answer is YES.
Everybody thought that Jane is far gone, so this was her advantage to sneak on that Ruskie and stealth kill him. If anyone from the group had that advantage, he would've used it.
Irrelevant. Point is she returned after she had decided to leave. She came back because she cared and wanted Clem to be safe.
About the nail file - Jane found it, Jane gave it to Clem. Just a writers idea. This could've been everyone
The point is that it wasn't. I was giving examples of how she's helped Clementine. She was also the first person initially looking to light the fire when Kenny was still worried about blaming Arvo and beating him.
Some people just cant get past through pain as quickly as others, especially when it comes to losing two beloved woman in a row, a kid, and thinking about the possibility of losing another two.
You're justifying his actions again with "he's lost people." Which is what everyone has gone through. Clementine has lost nearly everyone she's known (aside from Kenny, which in reality he didn't do much for her before Season 2). Also the fact that he can't get past it is adding to my point. He is hung up on the past and loss. Not to say that he shouldn't be, but the way he is acting out about it isn't right and it's very emotionally driven.
He fought for what he thought was right, and in the end, he showed that he truly was right. And Jane? I thought she really cared, but what she did to try to prove a point - this is the true insanity.
He was trying to kill a woman who (to his knowledge) accidentally lost the baby. He had no knowledge of what happened and was attempting to kill someone. He also assumed that she sacrificed the baby to save her self which is just him jumping to irrational conclusions again, and getting angry/violent because of it. I don't agree with how far she went with it, but she PROVED that he is volatile and ultimately unfit to protect Clementine. Even if you kill Jane, he admits it and leaves anyways. She was right. Kenny wasn't right about anything.. Jane was dumb to take it that far but Kenny was even more out of line to react that way without an explanation.
Exactly. There are even more reasons to say that Jane looked out for Clem as much if not more than Kenny did that I didn't mention. Thank you.
I assume you killed Kenny in your playthrough, because you are missing important points from Kennys view after being rescued.
After that fight with Jane, when they both discover baby in the car, Kenny says very clearly - he tought that Jane killed the baby because she made it clear that she never wanted it around in the first place. And then he says that he would've stopped if she just said the word that AJ is safe. I recommend you watching some playthroughs on YT form different POVs. I did it, thats why I'm giving my opinion. I think everyone should know the story from all of the points before blindly arguing
try holding a big steak in front of a starved abused tiger. you will most likely get the same result
kenny is not the only one who lost people just saying
but also kenny was bound to snap sooner or later he was trying to act as the AJ's daddy and such which was even more creepy i will say this had it been bonnie v.s kenny in a heartbeat i would of shot bonnie (fuck that bitch thinking luke wanted her ugh!) clem tried many times to reason with kenny because it's how lee would of done it and tried to keep everyone toghther but kenny was to stubbotn yeah he lost people and this and that but so did clem she lost lee who was her only really true friend a person she could trust in and when she had to leave lee she had to live with that burden but u never saw her go beserk like kenny did i'm sorry i'm just vocing my opinon as well just saying that if kenny would of kept his temper in check things might of been diffirent!
First off I have read every outcome that could possibly happen for the ending, so you're showing a bias right out the gate.
Kenny says very clearly - he tought that Jane killed the baby because she made it clear that she never wanted it around in the first place.
I can remember faintly Jane being somewhat opposed to the idea of a baby. I don't ever remember her making it "very clear" that she "didn't want the baby around". In fact, she watches after it in the unfinished house they stay at after they fall into the ice. Also if you decide to let her hold the baby, she seems quite comforted until it spits up.
And then he says that he would've stopped if she just said the word that AJ is safe.
So you mean after the fact that it's all happened he says he would have stopped? I understand that, but in the moment that the fight is happening, Jane isn't aware of it. So this has no relevance to his or her actions prior to or DURING the fight. You make it seem like Kenny is yelling to her during the fight "JUST TELL ME THE BABY IS ALRIGHT AND I'LL STOP!" And his word doesn't mean very much at this point. He also told her he wouldn't blow up like that again right before he blew up... again...
Again, you have a bias for Kenny and I understand it, but to re-state., he's not fit to protect Clementine or the baby, which is why even when you side with him and go to Wellington he leaves you.... This isn't blind argument.
Kenny and Jane... their fates have been determined.
I watched it.Putting little condescending smilies doesn't help your case. I got what you were saying. I don't know if you understand clearly. Maybe you should re-read what I had posted?
Dont imply that I cant read or Im too stupid to understand please
Then why would you tell me to watch something after I've already understood and replied? I'm not implying that. I'm stating you obviously didn't understand what I was saying because I replied to you. At first I had assumed you meant he said it during the fight. Then I stated that after the fight, him saying that has no relevance to the actual fight. Jane doesn't know that he would just stop. He's shown time and time again that his temper can't be controlled. You're not even debating points anymore you're just trying to argue. And again, condescending smilies isn't proving any point you're trying to make.
I wanted you to watch this, just to see how it really looked like. He really believed that he would've done it, that he would've stopped. And also, he really believed that she MURDERED AJ. Noone who believes something just shouts "tell me where he is" after someone said that he's already dead. Just like Jane, you can either take for granted that she said she did it all just because she cares. Words are words, you can trust someone or not. Even if the person is 100% convinced that what they say is true. It all depends on the context of the situation. You can be Team Jane, you can be Team Mustache, everyone believes whom they trust. And personally i trust Kenny, and after watichng same scene with Jane, I tought she was lying bitch trying just to manipulate people. Kenny at least was honest in his acts, he haven't changed since season 1 where he kicked Ben around because of indirectly causing Ducks and Katjaas death. Kenny and Clem might have a little forced relationship, but despite this - I trusted him, because in my playthrough Lee trused him. And im pretty sure if Lee was aware that Kenny isnt dead, he would've said that Clem should look for him instead of Omid and Christa.
And all of that is MY point of view.
Also, I smile because i like it. Idk where this hate for smileys comes from. Chill out maybe?
Also, its not about proving point. Somebody said it was like choosing between pizza and ice cream - both have pros and cons. It was my point of view, you have every right to disagree, but I just advise you to chill out a bit.
She made Kenny believe that she killed AJ by 'accident'.
A baby. A motherfucking baby.
Even people WITHOUT anger issues would kill her.
Hmm, Flog61 is not so active these days. It's kinda impressive, considering what happened in this episode.
And also, he really believed that she MURDERED AJ.
Which was an irrational assumption and he tried to end someone's life because of it. Jane said it was an accident. Kenny assumed that she sacrificed the baby.
The rest of what you say is irrelevant fanboying over Kenny. I'm not a huge fan of Jane's character and I wanted to like Kenny and I did previously, but I believe she was right. Nothing is up for debate about what Jane is saying. Kenny is a problem and acts irrationally and violently. Which was proven by the final scene and his previous actions throughout the entire game. Your point of view is not very refined because you've not defended Kenny in the slightest besides saying that him and Lee were friends.
Also, what suggests that Jane is manipulative and untrustworthy? The only manipulative thing she's done was to prove her point about Kenny, which she was right about. He tried to kill a woman who told him that the baby dying was an accident.
Both Jane's and Kenny's actions are perfectly explainable no matter how crazy/escalated they were. I'd leave it at that, because these types of discussions can go forever.
Killing a woman because she was around someone-you-cared-for's "accidental" death is explainable?
Kenny had his issues, but you dont seem to be getting the situation from his point. You just think what you would've done, in your POV. Maybe you would've stopped, let her talk out of it and shit, but Kenny's not like that. If she hadn't known that he would react that way - she wouldnt have done it. Like she said, he was a bomb, but she was the matchbox. Its so weird that with everyone assuming that Kenny is crazy and he would kill everyone around he acts weirs, but when he's with Clem and Alvie he's normal again, aware of being dangerous, but he's self-controlling. How do you explain this? Do you really think that every person, that ONLY REALLY TRULLY MOSTLY cared about a baby wouldnt have tried to kill someone who directly or indirectly killed it? Also, she might've said that it was an accident, but this is not what Kenny belives in. Btw, what normal person would try to explain and after like 20 seconds fight to death, making you choose, a little girl, who you should kill to rescue the other? I cannot even call this a stupid bullshit.
If she really wanted, she could've talked about this, try to make their group work. If it havent worked out, she could've just talk to Clem and let her decide, not come up with a stupid plan making her kill someone.
Again comes the question - what would you do, if you were Kenny, feeling exactly what he's been feeling all the way?
I just notice, Jane killed te russian with a knife to protect Kenny and in the end he kills her with the knife.Irony of destiny.
Killing a men because he fought for his loved one is explainable?
Killing Jane wasn't the right thing to do. Even Kenny knows that he'd become to reckless. When Clementine shoots him he just accepts it or if you choose to go to Wellington with him he says how he doesn't trust himself anymore. Jane did prove her point that Kenny is reckless but I don't think he'd ever hurt Clementine. Jane gets her knife slashes him and messes up his eye, they both could have killed each other in the fight. This isn't pre-meditated murder on Kenny's part nor is Jane a total psycho for trying to prove a point.
And when it comes to down to it Kenny really does care for Clementine but he's unsure whether anybody even cares for him after Sarita is gone. And when I chose to not leave him for Wellington and showed Kenny that Clementine cares for him just as much I think they both knew that despite losing their families they have each other and they value each other's lives more than their own. That was just a beautiful ending.
Again, you're justifying his irrational actions with the fact that he's been through a lot. I wouldn't act like Kenny because I'd like to think I'm rational. Kenny has always been quick to jump to conclusions without evidence or proof. Of course Kenny can reflect on his actions after the fact, that's not a problem. The problem is that he doesn't think before he acts, only after. I don't see why you think Jane was the one "not making the group work" because Kenny was trying to abandon people for his own goal of "Wellington" that not one person had actual proof if there was a place that was safe or not. It was a pipe dream that Kenny was fervently focused on. He had misplaced focus. Several times throughout the episode and season. The writing of the episode makes you follow Kenny regardless, so yes, making Kenny show his true colors was the only way for Clementine to not feel like she had to be with Kenny. Jane didn't make Kenny almost kill her. Jane made Kenny think that the baby had died and that was it. Kenny was the one filling in the blanks with his own delusion.
OK, if you want to continue the rant I'll throw my piece. I'm Kenny fan, but how about we make it objective.
Kenny snapped, his last purpose, raising a child was gone, him wanting to kill Jane was completely explainable, I'm not saying reasonable, since he didn't know if she actually killed the baby or it froze in her hands.
Jane doing this was to stay with Clem without Kenny. She saw the value in her and she wanted her only for herself since she knew how useful she is. Does her making a man go on rampage and putting her own and Clem's life at risk just to stay with her reasonable? No, but it is explainable.
No they wouldn't.
I'm speaking objectively. I couldn't be more objective. I've already agreed that her plan was dumb and possibly selfish, but completely necessary. Even TTG agrees with me (through Kenny) if REGARDLESS OF YOUR CHOICE there is the fact that Kenny is not fit to care for Clementine.
It lead to a fight that had both injured pretty badly it could have gone either way. They were both in the wrong when it comes to it. It's not like Jane wasn't trying to kill Kenny. It got heated and ended in murder. Hell even Lee ended up killing someone in a fight. It didn't mean that he was a complete recluse. At the end it is a crime.
I was honestly split 50/50 when I made that decision because there was no right or wrong decision then and I liked both of the characters very much and feel horrible for letting Kenny kill Jane.
He didn't fight for his loved one. He assumed she killed him out of coldness... What aren't you understanding here? He wasn't "sticking up for the baby" or "defending the baby" or "defending his loved ones". He was trying to kill someone who was (to his knowledge) the person who indirectly caused their death. What would happen if Mike was holding the baby and it died by some accident? He'd have gone off on them also...
There is no logic to what you just said. Say I was holding a baby and I fell down and the baby was accidentally killed. You'd think it logical to put me to death for it?
You are forgetting that Wellington wasn't only Kennys "pipe dream". At the beginning, Christa and Clem were going there, and no one seemed to say it's wrong. He thought that this was a safe place, it might've been his goal too before Lukes group met him and his group in the Cabin. You simply dont know that.
Also, everyone doesn't seem to care that Kenny being with this group was forced. If they had'nt met him on the way, he would'nt have been with them. Not even saying about Caver killing his group for the sake of taking his baby back to the market. They made him follow. They killed Walter and this yellow guy.
Kenny and Sarita in the cabin seemed to have it all good. Foof, electricity, fireplace. If Carver haven't showed up, then who knows, maybe Clem would've stayed with thim. I think that was all she cared about in the begining, it wasnt her group, she was looking for Christa, she wanted to be safe, not to get into a fight with some psycho.
I can totes understand why Kenny was so angry. If only they haven't come that night into their cabin, he would've had a good life with his beloved Sarita, trying to make it work with his friends in the Cabin.
BUT NO. Suddenly some strangers come and take everything that he loves and cares about. Its simply not fair.
That was just an initial goal because of the circumstances. They had no other direction. No idea of anywhere else they had heard was safe. So their goal was to go to Wellington to see if it was true. Kenny was oblivious to the WHOLE GROUP when they had decided that it wasn't safe to attempt to go to Wellington in the cold without food and supplies. Also you're not just going off on some "if" and "but" journey. If only the Zombie Apocalypse hadn't happened they'd all be happy and normal.
Nah, Mike only allowed Arvo almost kill Clem and then walked away with him just like that. Great guy, isn't he?