Bonnie, Mike, and ****
Basically I'm going to just talk about their roles in the last episode because I don't know what else to call this other than an essay. I'm pretty sure I've covered in here why I think Bonnie and Mike wanted to leave, why they brought Arvo, and why Arvo shot Clementine. And some other stuff.
I think they mainly left because of Kenny and not Clementine, and I'm assuming that since Clementine was the one closest to Kenny, they thought that he was least likely to hurt her so leaving Clem with him was okay to do. And that because she is so close with him, that she may not want to come with them at all and therefore could tell Kenny and ruin it, which Clem does have the option to do. Including her would be risky. Same with the baby since Kenny is so protective over him they may have thought AJ would be safe with Kenny. I'm still pissed that they didn't even consider bringing her at all, though at the same time I can see why they would have thought it would have ended bad.
Bonnie and Mike however, did not know Kenny for very long, I'm pretty sure they escaped Carver's settlement fairly quickly (Say, a week maybe. Right...?) and for the short time they had known Kenny he was very volatile. Kenny got into a fight with Mike when they first arrived at Carver's place in case anyone forgot about that. He was becoming increasingly unhinged before Arvo's group even attacked. Bonnie and Mike have been wary of him, basically. It was obvious from the start.
I think Bonnie and Mike witnessing the way that Kenny treated Arvo drove the point home that Kenny is dangerous. The constant viciousness Kenny displayed towards Arvo was very unneeded seeing as he seemed willing to cooperate with them. The times when he didn't were when he was lost in thought. He also doesn't speak English as well as it seemed so that may have played a part in him not answering people when they talked to him. The kid spent most of the episode tied up and sobbing about his sister being dead so obviously he's not in a good position emotionally and couldn't concentrate very well.
The way Kenny beat on Arvo was reminiscent of what Carver did to Kenny. Right down to the 'Heh fucker' (Kenny) and 'Fuck you' (Arvo) That was when both of them got the first punch. This parallel was intentional, there's no way it wasn't. Bonnie and Mike wanting to leave to get away from Kenny is perfectly reasonable, from their perspective, because they didn't know him for two seasons like Clementine, and by extension, the player did. They probably thought, "How long until he starts turning on us?" Or something of that nature. As for why they brought Arvo along, they probably thought he would get murdered by Kenny. I think Bonnie's situation when she helped raid the lodge is similar to how Arvo brought his group to rob Clementine's. Maybe she knows what it feels like to be in that position. Just speculation.
I'll also add that there was foreshadowing to them doing something like this, at least where Mike was concerned; with Luke talking about him not being very trustworthy. Turns out Luke was right. Mike gave us no reason to distrust him last episode but there was probably writer problems or whatever that lead to some discontinuity and here we are.
Okay, so now about Arvo. It isn't shocking that he would want to get out after all the shit Kenny put him through. (One punch in the face is justified maybe, because he was the one who lead his group to Clementine's, but for fucks sake Kenny went way overboard with him.) Mike was nice to him. Bonnie defended him or at least advocated not to kill him. Those two had the least to do with his misfortunes,. (Not to say that it wasn't Arvo's own fault as well.) Jane threatened him on the deck and robbed him of his gun and seeing as he isn't the leader of his group, they likely forced him to help in the counter-ambush. Kenny, as I mentioned before, has abused him to all hell. But if Clementine doesn't help steal, then it is the shooting of his zombified sister that does it. It isn't clear who shoots her while she is still alive in the first place. It most likely was Bonnie but Arvo may not know that.
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but Arvo gives Clementine death glares quite a lot through the episode. It all started when Clementine shoots Natasha to keep her from biting Kenny. It seems irrational for Arvo to be so pissed over it since she was already a walker in the first place, but where have we seen this kind of situation/behavior before? (Hint, this other dead woman is named Sarita.) He gives her the first death glare when she shoots his sister. If she falls into the lake, Arvo gives her the same look. I'm not sure why he chose that specific moment though. Finally, there was the time when Arvo had the gun, right before he shoots her he goes on and off with the death glare. If Clementine does threatening things like pulling out her gun first thing. (Exactly how much of a threat does try and make herself to be? I don't think I've seen a playthrough with that yet. I've only watched one.) I think that is the reason for shooting her. But if Clementine asks Mike if she can come with them, I hear it ends up with Arvo shooting her anyway. The only plausible reason I can think of for him doing this is because he wanted to avenge his already dead sister. Which really pisses me off to be honest. Kind of like how Kenny blamed Clementine at first for what happened to Sarita, but he came to his senses and apologies because he knows it was just the grief that was talking when he was so mad. Maybe Arvo is the same way. I dunno. I also kinda think he feels really guilty for the deaths of his group members and maybe that's also why he was so angry, looking to shove all the blame on another person.
Finally the reason they all up and abandoned Clementine so quickly was because they likely feared Kenny would go berserk on them which is a very real fear considering the way he has acted. Especially Arvo, because Kenny has tried to killed him about four times. (First by threatening to shoot him to lure Vitali out, then by trying to revenge-shoot him, forcing him to go out first on the ice could count I guess, and then of course by delivering a Carver-style beating to him.) If Kenny came out there and saw Clementine on the ground shot, and a gun in Arvo's hands, we all know the first person Kenny would assume to have done it would be Arvo. He ran because he was scared, just like he ran across the lake.
It seems sorta obvious that the whole plot point was made just to get the three of them out of the way...(Interesting, since this is Telltale, they could have just killed them off, perhaps there is more in store for them in a DLC or S3. What? I can hope.)
I still like all three of them and I think it would be awesome to see them more. I don't want to excuse their actions because all three of them have done shitty things, Arvo's shooting of Clementine definitely had to be the most unsympathetic thing he has done so far. But pretty much everyone has done shitty things, that's kind of a main point of the game. No black and white. I just wanted to give my reasons as to why I think they did what they did.
Comments
Exactly, good topic, Bonnie and Mike aren´t bad for trying to leave, they were reasonably afraid Kenny, who was becoming another Carver, just like Jane mentioned( if you watched him kill Carver and yell at him to stop when he is beating Arvo, Kenny says something like: "What, you are not into this kind of thing anymore?" I found this really creepy ). I believe Bonnie and Mike care for Clementine and never meant to screw her, but telling her about the plan was risky considering they were not sure if Clem´s loyalty to Kenny would be greater, and when Clem got shot they had to leave ASAP since Kenny was coming to certainly kill them.
Arvo though, was a total douchebag and i would never forgive him. I understand that irrational reaction to find someone to blame when a loved one dies, similar to the one that Kenny had, but shooting a little girl is really too far. Even when Kenny irrationaly lashed out on Clem, and knowing the loose cannon that Kenny is, he never came to hurt her physically. I know Kenny has a stronger bond with Clem than Arvo has with Clem that probably retracted Kenny´s reaction, but still it´s hard to think about it.
They were going to take all of the supplies and the truck. That's probably the most abhorrent thing anyone could have done in that situation. It's unforgivable imo.
Yeah. Taking all of the supplies and the truck is right up there with Arvo shooting Clementine (Unprovoked in some choices, apparently.) as far as shitty unforgivable decisions go.
The three of them leaving out of fear of what Kenny may do to them is justified, screwing over the rest of the group while doing this is definitely not, I agree. And since I really can't come up with any other viable reason for Arvo to shoot Clem at this point, I have to go with it being some sort of revenge for his sister, and doing that to someone who was just trying to save her companion from getting bitten regardless of if that walker was your family member or not is fucked up, if that was Arvo's intention.
I am saying this in the event of Clementine not doing anything to provoke them, but even when she is yelling to Kenny and Jane for help I still find his shooting of her disproportionate retribution. (Gotta go back and watch alternate dialogue choices of this scene...) If Arvo really wanted to kill her, I'd think he'd have gone for her head...he may have also shot her in the same place that his sister got shot in (not sure is this is accurate.) so that is also...interesting.
It would be completely unrealistic for Clementine to ever forgive what they did to her, but I still want to see what happens to the three of them. I find Bonnie and Mike more interesting now because I never would have expected either of them to do something like this but then I look back on it and go, 'yeah it sorta does make sense, even though this change of character probably was the result of writers with differing ideas and a need to get the extra characters out of the main plot in order to set up the final pizza vs ice cream deal' I was disappointed with how little we got to interact with Arvo but he survived the damn episode and could possibly be in season three.
If Telltale didn't want to do anything else with these characters, they likely would have found ways to kill them off and they didn't so that means we may see them again. I hope so. I have a strange inability to hate Arvo. He's screwed things up so many times for Clem's group and yet I just never hate him I don't know what the deal is.
I don't care that they wanted to leave. It was a reasonable decision because Kenny was crazy and the group was fracturing. It was still very shitty of them to take all of the supplies and the truck because it could have doomed Clementine and especially AJ and they were well aware of that.
Kenny was dangerous and In my playthrough when I asked to leave and handed over the gun, Mike and Bonnie wanted me to come too. Till Arvo fucked up.
Also it makes perfect sense that they would run away after Clem got shot. Kenny had a vendetta against Arvo (and even if Mike and Bonnie would have explained themselves, just the fact that they were stealing the truck would have caused Kenny to shoot them) and Jane would have slit their throats for shooting clementine since she is unhinged herself and eerily possessive.
So when Bonnie shouted she cant leave me, Mike literally meant "We have no other choice we gotta go". I'm glad they escaped, I wouldnt wan't them near Jane OR Kenny. It's just sad they have to deal with murderous Russian Harry Potter.
Very good post. I still like Bonnie and Mike.
Arvo reminds me of Lily actually. Being in a bad place after the loss of a loved one and shooting someone. I completely understand his reasons for being upset but it doesn't make what he did right. His sister was a walker, Clem was not and she'd stuck up for him against Kenny (saying it's not his fault etc.) in my playthrough. I never trusted Arvo for a second but I definitely felt sympathetic for him. He definitely didn't deserve the beatings he got. He actually seemed like he was the Ben of the Russians actually.
Mike and Bonnie however, I still like them and although I am disappointed they left us, I completely understand why they did it, for all the reasons you've mentioned already. I just wish Arvo ran off on his own and that Bonnie and Mike took Clem if you asked to go with them because honestly, whilst I liked the group we had left I was all for going with Luke, Bonnie and Mike. Then Luke died and Bonnie and Mike disappeared when Clem blacked out after being shot. =/
My issue isn't with either Mike or Bonnie. It's assho- excuse me - it's Arvo I've got issues with for shooting Clementine. WTF dude?
I wasn't upset that they wanted to go their separate ways with Arvo. They had good reason to, with not trusting Kenny and thinking they were in danger while he was around. That was their decision and I respect that.
What I had a problem with is that they planned to leave us with absolutely no supplies and no vehicle. These are three capable people leaving a wounded eleven year old, an unstable and eye-less Kenny, and a newborn behind with nothing to survive on. They went through so much trouble to help Rebecca give birth AJ and they leave him there to potentially die/starve. Mike just wanted to abandon me after Arvo shot him, and I was nothing but nice to him.
lets just say if Arvo comes across Clem in S3 and I have the chance to finish him off, I will.
Clementine got shot thanks to Mike's actions, even if it was for humanity, it wronged Clementine.
Mike's intentions were good though, If you asked to be taken with him, he wanted to (and Bonnie as well if you tried to save Luke).
Arvo shooting Clem was Neither Bonnie or Mike's intentions.
If you choose not to break the ice when Bonnie and Luke were in water , she could die . So Bonnie is determinant now
Welcome to mute characters family Bon Bon .
Yeah, I get why they were leaving, but stealing all the supplies and leaving everyone else to die was really wrong. And also, could anyone explain to me how could Mike and Bonnie trust Arvo that much that they gave him a gun. Like really, what the hell.
I wouldn't care if they just left us . But they took 2 FUCKIN' BAGS OF SUPPLIES WITH ARVO . Bonnie is determinant now but if I see Mikey or Arvo in season 3...i'll be like "BYE FELICIA !"
Arvo likely convinced them. A kicked puppy can get away with saying lots of things to those who sympathize.
Mike is gullible.
Im glad they went this route with them, it would have been easy to just kill them, Thankfully they did something better and made them more complex and unlike able.
We don't know if Arvo is alive. Kenny might have killed him.
They weren't too unlikeable in my opinion. Controversial, yes though.
I approved of their decision and my clem was pretty glad they escaped.
Yeah, stealing all the supplies they had was such a good intention.
Kenny and Jane would have done much worse, so it's all for nothing in the game of survival. Jane would have easily abandoned them with nothing, and Kenny would beat them, kill them and execute them so...? (Kenny also threatened to leave without them first)
Also more blame is to be had for Arvo who didn't want Clem to come with them (probably convinced mike to do so) in the first place and definitely MADE that happen.
I completely agree with you.
Also, thank you for reminding that Arvo lost people and was emotionally broken too (for ones who say Kenny did bad things because he was just broken but Arvo is a son of a bit*h instead).
You know, even know I wrote that giant rant up there trying to rationalize their actions (Because why they did what they did is explainable.) I still feel like at the core of it everything sort of happened because the writers wanted an easy way to get the three of them out of the plot. And when I say this I am specifically talking about Arvo here. It's almost as if his entire purpose was to show how unhinged and 'Carver'-like Kenny has become because every dialogue involving him is Kenny being an ass and the player having the chance to tell him to stop abusing him. We learn nothing about Arvo as a person. Nothing. Never get to talk to him.
I mean yeah he is mad about his sister dying but I still sorta find it hard to believe he could be that pissed off about it since she was a walker. It is reminiscent about the Lilly situation but Larry hadn't turned yet. His sister was clearly a walker and could have ended up biting him so technically Clementine did save him. The only reason we were given options to tell Kenny to quit abusing him constantly was so the audience could be angry at him later for shooting Clementine. Such a far cry from his earlier views of Clementine as a kind person, I find it hard to believe that her putting down a walker is enough to completely make Arvo turn against her and shoot her, for fucks sake if that's not the definition of disproportionate retribution I don't know what is.
I know now why I can't hate Arvo, it is because any attempts to make him antagonistic were pulled off too badly in terms of writing. Like instead having him stick around and grow they just wanted to give the audience a convenient excuse to hate him before they ship him off with Mike and Bonnie and that cheap trick seemed to work on most of the fans...
And has anyone noticed that his English from the fourth to fifth episode got really bad? Just another thing to add...
If Clementine's story is over for good I still want the three of them in season 3. As protagonists. I don't care, someone just needs to fix this. I still like all of them.
Let me just say that the three characters I liked best (why'd I like Arvo again!?) screwed me and a baby over. They had their reasons but it's like what Lilly said. Leaving us without supplies and a car was the same as cutting our throats. I don't want Season 3 to include Clementine, but if Bonnie, Mike, or Arvo come across my PC there will be a serious case of deja vu.
I'm pretty sure Arvo just grabbed the gun off the seat of the car when he heard Clementine call out to them, I don't think Mike intended to give him the gun at all.
About the english thing: HOLY SHIT SOMEONE ELSE WAS ANNOYED BY THAT?! I was so peeved by his changing accent and english DX
Yeah i did find it weird his english deteriorated. I can understand his anger at clementine for killing his zombie sister, a loss is a loss and even walkers still look like his sister. But what i found REALLY upsetting was I even got HURT for Arvo trying to make Kenny stop and sit down and Arvo saw none of that and still shot me.
If it was an accident when he aimed for Kenny would make much more sense. and make him far more sympathetic. (since they'd have to run regardless cuz jane and kenny are crazy)
Glad after they abandoned her with a gunshot?
If Arvo didn't know she was a walker or was in denial ofc he's pissed
Well expecting them to carry your unconscious body would be unreasonable when Kenny would shoot them on the spot.
Glad they were taking all the supplies and the truck?
What everyone is forgetting is Kenny has lost everyone he loves and Lee kept him calm losing him and Clem was too much when he risked his life to save that kid in season 1 and when he saw Clem again he regained hope even though he had Sarita so when she died he went back into his shell he is not dangerous he knows that people are no longer loyal other than Clem so he is not going to take a chance of losing aj and Clem and in my book that is who needs to be together Kenny Clem and aj the hell with the other back stabbers did we not forget bonnie set them up at the cabin none of this would had ever happened if she did not tell carver where they all were...