Arvo's Fault!
From the moment Arvo pulls his gun on Clementine(11 year old girl) and says he's got no problem putting a bullet in her. I had a feeling something bad was going to happen.I'm "Amid The Ruins", You know you can either side with Jane and take his medicine, or give...it...back You can give the medicine back.
It's not no harm, no foul, but you gave the fucker his medicine back. Got Jane to sort of back off, etc... When you meet him again at the end of the episode and the start of "No Going Back", he doesn't give a fuck whether Jane is with you or no. Or if Clementine actually took his medicine or told Jane to cool off and give it back to him. He straight up lies to everyone there and says Clementine robbed him.
Even when he notices Jane isn't there, he doesn't say, "Hold on guys, the actual bitch who robbed me isn't here". And he doesn't say, "I lied...I just wanted revenge because I got embarrassed." At least he could have told the truth because his friends clearly didn't care why they were ambushing Clem's group. His sister gets killed because he was too petty to live and let live, then when Clementine saves his life by killing her again, he gets pissed. Like how dare you save my life and put my sister out of her misery. Kenny treats him like shit and took it almost too far, and mostly for the wrong reasons, but he deserved it. Even if you're nothing but kind to Arvo and try to sympathize with him, he treats Clem like dirt and is just determined to not like her.
On the ice walk, if Arvo hadn't taken off running, none of them would, and Luke more than likely would have lived. The others seemed to conveniently forget that when Kenny laid into him. Then when he and the others try and escape, he doesn't even hesitate to shoot Clementine. I thought Mike and Bonnie would have come to their senses after that, especially considering all Clementine has done for them.
Pretty much the entire series of events that lead up to the end of the game and all the pain it brings is Arvo's fault for being a dick to a little girl even if she talked down the closest thing she has to best friend and a sister to give him back the supplies he claimed he needed and was nothing but kind to him while he treated her like shit. If they hadn't escaped and he hadn't shot Clem, Jane wouldn't have come up with that dumb scheme of hers. And while I do agree Kenny was going down a dangerous path, Clem and AJ more than likely would have kept him relatively calm. Jane forced his hand and took advantage of his already fragile mental state by doing nothing but pushing his buttons and forcing both of them into a death or life situation.
Comments
And it doesn't help that there wasn't any way to inflict any sort of physical pain towards Arvo.
I WANTED TO KILL HIM MYSELF. After all the bad looks that bastard gave to me in that "house" of his.
ITs all jane fault for stealing the meds and now you will tell me its Determnaint well i will tell you no why ?
first if you did steal it in ep4 clem says it wasnt me it was jane and if you choose to steal the meds jane told you we need that stuff clem
Jane started it yes, but you can either A)Choose to give the meds back. But he still lies and said Clementine stole from him.
Or you can B)Take the meds at Jane's insistence, and Arvo still says Clementine was the one who robbed him when Jane was in charge of the situation.
And in either instance, Jane isn't even there when he ambushes them. He notices this, asks where Jane is if I recall, and when Clem says she left, it doesn't really matter because Arvo doesn't give a fuck. He puts all the blame on Clementine, every time something goes wrong it's her he's mad at. He even puts a bullet in her regardless. She could give the gun up and he still shoots her.
lol there is not give the meds back if there is i would like an evidence
who intended to leave a little girl (sarah) behind ? and left her own sister to die ? she even provoked kenny to fight !
I believe Arvo planned on kill Clem from the start. I assume he blames her for shooting his sister, whether she was a zombie or not doesn't seem to matter to him. In my first play through (the one I consider my canon play through) Clem even put the gun down and was handing it over to Mike, obviously no longer a threat to them. Arvo still shots her.
I understand why people hated how Kenny beat the crap out of Arvo for seemingly no reason, it's the feeling I had at first, but I also think Arvo wanted Clem dead and blamed her for everything. Probably assumed that had he never meet Clem in the first place his sister and people would still be alive, and then after Clem shoots his zombie sister it just made his hatred towards her more palpable.
yup he wanted to kill clem because she killed his sister who ere zombified and wanted to kill clem from the start no due to kenny actions arvo deserved it
[
](Might wanna check this video...2:50 minutes in )
Did you not play the episode? He clearly walks away with the bag of medicine.
And yes, Jane was going to leave Sarah behind because she wouldn't move and she couldn't snap her out of it.
The same thing happened with her sister, she tried and tried and tried but she wouldn't go with her. She even pointed out that the entire time they were together she had to essentially force her sister to live.
If Clementine took his medicine, then she did rob him. In that instance, he's correct. Also don't forget he tried to save the situation when he realized you had a baby in the group.
See, this is what happens when stupid writing causes your choices to not mean anything; in this case, Arvo reacting the same no matter what you choose to do.
I'm pretty sure the ice was already cracking under Luke when we turn around which was unavoidable unless I missed some kind of chain reaction that resulted from them running off. Even if your contention is that we would have had more people, it'd still be really hard to save Luke considering him just taking a step got him stuck.
Sarah was that. Jane is just a bitch with a fucked up, warped worldview.
Jane already had her mind set on Kenny. She'd have probably tried something eventually, and them getting separated from the others doesn't really give Jane any more of a reason to do what she did. She, just like Kenny, could have tried to make it work, but she didn't. Arvo has nothing to do with that.
Edit: Want to point out that I don't defend Arvo shooting her. That was the main thing he did that had no shades of grey to it, but it's hard for me to get up in arms about it when it was such a nonsensical writing device just to ruin Bonnie and Mike's plan.
I can't put my finger on it, but I could never warm up to Arvo, even when Kenny was giving him a royal beatdown. There was always something a little weasel-like about him, and his final actions (no matter how you treated him before that point) pretty much seals the deal, IMO. Here's hoping he bumped into Nate.
Maybe because he was literally 'weaselly' in his build. Or because he was a Russian and those guys are always 'bad' in American media. Or because you really aren't given much chance to apologize or even get to know him in Episode 5. He exists to be a punching bag for Kenny and to make the two sympathetic supporting characters turn against him.
You may call it stupid writing, I just think it points to the fact that Arvo blames Clem for killing his sister. In my first play through I was nothing but kind to him. Didn't steal anything, told him to leave, was nice to him every chance I got, stood up for him when Kenny beat him, put my gun down when they tried running away, and he still shoots you. To me that leads to only one logical conclusion, and that is he blames Clem for his sister's death, which if not logical still makes some kind of sense to me. I could see a grief stricken boy who had just been held hostage feeling like he needed to get his revenge.
From his stand point he's tired of being pushed around and this world kicking his ass, and there is the girl who killed his beloved sister Natasha. That bitch... if it wasn't for her none of this would have happened. Had she never meet him they'd all still be alive, his sister would still be alive! She's the cause of all of this, and he will not be a victim anymore! BANG end scene.
Or he got beat again, only no one stopped Kenny that time.
She took the medicine at Jane's insistence. You can see it on her face and how sorry she was when she apologized. Even though she went along with the plan, it was Jane who suggested it in the first place and convinced Clem by showing her just how much her own group needed it. Even then, Arvo straight up lied and said his 'group' was suffering just as much as Clem's. We know his leg's in a brace, and his sister could possibly be sick even though we never saw that. But the rest of his group was a bunch of musclebound Russian mobsters with no remorse about killing women and children just because Arvo said they robbed him even if they didn't.
The ice seemed to hold while everyone was taking their time. I figure Arvo takes off, then Kenny, then Mike, then Bonnie, Jane, Clem, Luke, etc... All that weight at once probably did weaken the ice. If anything Luke would have put down some of the least weight as he had to step carefully with his leg injury.
Sarah was a good friend and sister figure to Clementine. But so was Jane. It was clear how close they became when they bonded and Jane showed her more ways to survive. She even says Clementine is 90% of the reason she came back. The other 10% was probably Luke. Jane did some messed up stuff yes, but Clementine still cared about her and she was the closest thing she had to a friend and a sister after Sarah's death.
And while Jane did have her mind set on Kenny, if the separation didn't happen, and the walkers didn't come, and etc...she wouldn't have thought of that plan or been in any position to execute it in the first place.
^ Basically this. I would have liked it a lot more if we actually got to have a conversation with him.
I honestly wish TT would have given Clem the option to shoot him when he was leaving with Bonnie and Mike.
I can't speak for Kenny (I remember him calling Arvo "a little commie bastard", or something along those lines), but personally I disliked Arvo due to his behavior towards Clem, not his nationality.
All the same, I think you hit the nail on the head: Arvo ultimately exists just to make all the other characters turn against Kenny. He's a plot device, and it's hard to sympathize with plot devices.
I wanted the option to tell Kenny to rip his throat out...
I wasn't referring to Arvo shooting Clementine. Like I said, no problem condemning him for that, although I think the writing suffers there too. It's his plan to have you robbed regardless of what you do that I was mainly referring to.
I guess I can agree that that was the reason Arvo shot Clementine, but he had to know she was a walker, so it doesn't really resonate with me as a valid reason, but then, like Lee said, people don't make sense or something like that.
I was being "kind" to Arvo in season 4. I didn't really believe his story but I still had the nagging in my head that his sister could really be suffering. So he could keep the meds. But as soon as he shows up with his army I really didn't care for him anymore. He had many opportunities to clear up the situation but he did nothing. Yes he was hesitant when he heard you have a baby with you but that doesn't make the whole situation okay.
Like Robert Morgan says he was just there to split the group which didn't even make sense. In my playthrough I had a good relationship with Bonnie and Mike. Risking Clem's life on multiple occasions for them and they'd just leave here behind without any supplies for that random other kid that showed up with armed men behind him. I don't buy it.
still like the episode though ><
Even if he understands that, he still may not appreciate it. For most of the audience, we've been taught it's better to be dead then be a walker. That doesn't mean every character agrees to that, or wants to see that happen. In the books Morgan can't bring himself to kill zombie Duane, he even kills over survivors and dogs to "feed" Duane. When Rick meets up with him again instead of killing Duane he lets him escape, even though he hints that he knows he is in the wrong. Had Rick shot zombie Duane I doubt Morgan would have react positively. People react differently in this world, and I think it's in the realm of possibility that Arvo wanted Clem dead for killing Natasha.
Kenny didn't dislike him because he was Russian. He disliked him because of who he was and all the shit he was doing. Just in his anger he let some of that inbred southern racism slip out. Remember in the first season he even went out of his way to assure Lee he wasn't racist.
And since she can still make the morally correct choice, it doesn't really matter that Jane was the one who pushed her into it. In the end, Clem chooses for herself what to do. You can't really say Arvo lied about the troubles they were going through since, like you said, we never saw what his sister was going through and what the rest of them were going through for that matter, regardless of the content of their characters, and Arvo didn't know anything about our group to know who had it worse. But he was certainly right that we're not special; survival is a hard road for everyone.
As for the ice... meh, no real way of knowing whether that's what brought about Luke's death or not. Seemed more like being in a bad place at a bad time.
Jane showed her useful stuff and was friendly, sure, but the bulk of that was before she started spouting her philosophy of letting Sarah die and every other thing that made her look worse and worse as time went on. From there, it's up to the player how much Clem really values her, so no real right answer to that one. I don't think Jane is a straight up villain or anything, but her ideas are immensely damaging, and I don't see that as a quality a friend and sister would possess.
Sure, but again, it's not like what Arvo did made her stupid plan an inevitable conclusion, at least in terms of the game's "reality". Jane made that decision in her growing anger towards Kenny. In the end, that falls entirely on her and her idea that Kenny was no longer a help to them. That has nothing to do with Arvo.
Precisely. The game obviously wanted us to think that Kenny was being brutal, but you and I and many others who CHOSE NOT TO STEAL FROM HIM knew that he was giving exactly the right amount of abuse to him.
He was a little sh--
"See, this is what happens when stupid writing causes your choices to not mean anything; in this case, Arvo reacting the same no matter what you choose to do."
agreed 100% -- lazy programming and writing that sticks only to canon regardless of your choices
The point I'm making is that Arvo, a guy at least 17-18, blames a child for this despite Jane being the one holding him at gunpoint, Jane being the one who convinces Clementine, Jane threatening him, etc... He notices Jane isn't there, the one who set about how he felt, but he still blames Clementine. Still shoots her regardless of how nice she is to him.
As for Jane v Kenny. Again you seem to be missing my point. While yes she may have come up with another plan down the road. If Arvo and the others hadn't escaped, and if he hadn't shot Clementine and freaked everyone out. They'd still be in a group, or at least not in a position for Jane to risk AJ's life just to push Kenny over the edge. If she didn't have that option, things would have turned out very differently. Maybe not better per say, but different from what happened.
I know, I wanted my Last Stand Perk...
Personally I was waiting for the moment when i could kill Arvo but unfortunately nothing in this way happend. I think that it was his fault in all of this coz if he hadnt send his group he would have lost his sister. Going further I dont understend his choice when he pulled trigger of shotgun to shot clem. She was vulnerable she didnt has weapon. When Clem killed his sister she was zombified so in some wierd way she helped her. And he is ugly xD
Here's hoping they froze to death, because I think that Kenny and Jane took the supplies and the car and left them to rot.
So did anyone else see the look that Arvo gave Clem after they brought her into the cabin after Luke's death. Like almost he planned for Clem to die and was disappointed or he was glad Clem was suffering from the loss of Luke. Am I supposed to feel some sort of sympathy for this character after that?
I wish there was an option to shoot him in his kneecaps and leave him to rot while he, Bonnie and Mike were trying to leave.
I wish there was an option to rip his throat out, repeatedly kick him in the balls, and leave him screaming in pain while walkers mercilessly devour his being and send him to the depths of hell and have this happen to him repeatedly for the rest of eternity and more.
It would have been cool if you had another standoff moment and you could call Arvo out on his bullshit. Possibly convince Mike and Bonnie to see how fucked up he was. I know Walking Dead doesn't really do "Happy" endings, but that would have made me happy. Then I would have shot him.
I completely agree with this. Designers make it work.
Well, they most likely froze to death, since Kenny and Jane took the supplies and left them. To quote Kenny, "Good riddance."
We need to add Arvo to the official list of Shitbird species.
Arvo-elian Littlebitchis
I tried to talk to arvo several times but never had a conversation with him. That was kind of annoying. He ended up being a character to make Kenny look bad and that was it. I wanted to know his story.