What I got from that line is that Jane wanted to leave with Clementine AND AJ at that moment, because if they waited for Kenny he wouldn't let AJ go with Clementine and Jane.
jane is a psycho the part when kenny goes to get fuel from the cars she says .. "clem we could leave right now," then clem says what abot Aj… more and then "look i now u are close to him but kenny would never let him go"
SHE WANTED TO LEAVE A CHILD BEHIND
Kenny has many flaws, and I acknowledge that. I'm not a Kenny fan, I don't really even like him, but it was because I thought the baby was actually dead. Given Jane's shady background, and how hard it would be for her to accidentally lose the baby, as you can't just drop it, and the walkers were frozen, I thought she killed it. I was so pissed at Jane, I wanted to shoot her myself.
And me....their main argument is he is a danger. But I have yet to see anything where he is actively putting people in harms way. He is always looking out for the benefit of everyone. It's just that's sometimes it doesn't work out.
He doesn't set out to get people killed (like Jane did with Kenny!)
His decisions are sound ones. It's the way he communicates them to others where there is a problem.
You put another strong personality there and they are automatically going to clash with him no matter what. It's like what Bonnie said...alpha males and all that ...#
That's the one thing j don't understand about all the people who don't have a problem with what Jane did. They're excusing it saying Kenny was insane, hot headed, violent and would get someone killed.
But that's everything Jane is this episode.
Plus she is manipulative. .. that one person can try to turn someone against someone else is something I despise in a person. It's one of the worst, most disgusting human traits I can think of. Why anyone can condone it is beyond me. No matter what their thoughts on Kenny. The ability to.lie and manipulate should raise a flag...shouldn't it?
We didn't have to search for anything. Jane implies that AJ is dead, knowing that Kenny would snap on her, because she wanted Clem to turn o… moren Kenny and come with her. She's manipulative, and a liar. There isn't anything I hate more in a person than those two traits.
Lee and Kenny essentially had the same morals. The same ideas, Lee would often want to hold up and think it through. But he'd go with what Kenny said. Because even though it was a deplorable option. The state the world was in, it was often the only "right" thing they could do.
Like leaving the girl to get eaten when they were getting supplies from the pharmacy. Wanting to save her is a good, normal human reaction. But it would more than likely get you killed too. It wasnt like she was 3 feet away and they could grab her. She was 50ft away surrounded by walkers. It would take a miracle to get her out unbitten.
Remember what Jane said about rescuing the guy under the truck? They lost 4 guys and he was bitten anyway.
Whilst it was morally right to try and save him. It was the wrong decision.
Sometimes you have to do something morally wrong, to make the right one. Like leaving the girl. You'll know that if you played more than once. I tried to save her...an the outcome was far worse than when I left her.
My Lee would definitely react the way Kenny did, he had reactions like that during season 1 ...why wouldnt he in season 2 after the added strain of survivng years in the ZA?
Kenny was the only member of that group (bar Clem, and maybe Luke) with any real attachment to that baby, and with good reason. He bought him into this world. He was a good father, he loved his family so much and he had them taken away in the blink of an eye. Now all of a sudden. Hes a father again. Not because hes chosen to be one. Because no one else wants to be responsible for a baby.
SO of course he bonds with it, its his second chance...and the one good thing in the end of the world. So of course hes going to protect it. It symbolises hope! And without hope, what point is there in surviving? As Kenny says "Its what people like Lee believed in, and people like Jane will never understand."
If Lee was under the impression that Jane left AJ to die/killed AJ he would. Especially if he knew Jane like the group and Clem did. She goe… mores on about how she's only out to save herself numerous times, she implies that Rebecca should get rid of the baby, she leaves Sarah to possibly get eaten, she leaves her sister to get eaten(I understood why she did this, but on the surface this looks really bad, and I don't think Lee would ever do something like that), and then she leaves the group and Clem after the catastrophe that went down at the observatory. She's fickle, and she's not above manipulating others to get what she wants/save herself. I'm fairly sure that Lee would lose it on her too, because it'd be hard to believe that AJ died by accident, given her track record.
Jane started this shit and clearly said to clem to don't get involved and kenny maybe said "you made the right choice " to clem so she won'… moret feel gulty ; Why would he make that ? simply because he love clem as lee loved her , you doubt it check wellington ending
Imagine you was Lee in s1 and clem shot you 'cause (idk) you put someone she liked ( like her dad) in danger and she shot you and you have 3 choice of dialogues before you die what would you choose between : "Why clem ? I don.... I don't understand " "How could you clem , i trusted you " and "you made what you had to .... You made the right choice clem"
Kenny Choosed the third one And that just shows how much he loved her , My point is that kenny never been a bad guy , he's been a jerk but not a monster , and i understand why he was angry , he tought she left the baby to save her skin , and was so angry that he didn't listen to her when she said " it was an accident " … [view original content]
Perfect! I love that you bought up the lake bit. Now why did Luje fall through again? BECAUSE THERE WAS TOO MUCH WEIGHT. But never mind that. Lets send the biggest guy out there to the hole in the weak ice to rescue the little girl. Doesnt matter he has much farther to walk than the MUCH LIGHTER person who is also much closer. He should have rescue her anyway. Off with his head!
Enlighten me, you say Kenny's a loose canon, what danger was he leading Clementine into? Lets look at Jane's genius plan again. She left the… more baby in the car that only she knew about, she was seconds away from death, she could've saved herself and the baby by telling truth. If she died, what do you think would've happened to baby Alvie as Kenny & Clementine believed he was dead? Starved to Death or Eaten Alive. Still want to ignore these details and believe the baby was safe as the magic car would've took care of him if things went bad? Still think I made that up? What part of this do you think is OK?
They wanted to go south, yeah OK why didn't they say this before? Kenny already decided that they should go to Wellington and the group followed until 3 nights later they change their minds and say "Lets head to Texas" or "I wanna go back to the place that was overrun with Zombies". And did Mike, Bonnie & Jane predict the future and se… [view original content]
Jane was actually one of my favorite characters. But the fact that she lied, or even implied that the baby was dead just to get Kenny to sna… morep so Clem would go with her...I have no sympathy for her at all. That was manipulative, and she knew that Kenny would lose it if the baby was dead, hell I was losing it when I thought she let the baby die. For this reason I let Kenny kill her, I would have shot her myself if I had the option to be honest. Then we learn that the baby was safe and hidden, all because she wanted to make Clem turn on Kenny and come with her to be what her sister Jaime could not. She explicitly said she wants Clem to see what Kenny really is, as if I was going to choose someone I'd only known for 2 days, someone who abandoned Clem once already, for someone who Clem has known for years, someone who albeit does have a bad temper, but would never ever abandon Clem, and would always protect her with his life. Jane's plan backfired… [view original content]
You take that line way out of context. You only get that reply when you tell him "Maybe he shouldnt have" When he tells you about Lee searching half of Georgia to look for Clem. When you reply "Maybe he shouldnt have" Kenny says "Dont you say that...do you have any idea what he sacrificed for you? What I did?" Then very softly, and sadly whilst turning away to the window "I should slap you"
Telling Kenny that He and Lee should have left you to die hurt him, really hurt him. Thats why you get that line. He doesnt want to slap you....he says it in such a resigned way its like hes given up.
I get tired of seeing all these comments of people saying that she was trying to brainwash Clementine, when if you disagree with Kenny's pla… morens at any point he doesn't listen, he insults you, he threatens you a la "I oughta slap you right now!", and he just becomes more and more unstable. Jane wasn't planning to sabotage him from the start, she was just acknowledging his problems unlike everyone else; plus at the beginning of this episode she talks to you about how they need to make things right with him. Throughout his entire lifespan in The Walking Dead, he's proven himself to be one of the most volatile characters, and while Jane was unstable, because of your encouragement, she improves. If she hadn't developed or changed at all for as long as she's been with us, maybe I'd see to why people wanna go with Kenny instead, but since she's clearly capable of changing for the better where Kenny is not, it doesn't really make sense to me.
i have a fact for the guys who still think shooting kenny is a good idea remember before the fight goes Jane said exactly "No matter what happens just stay out of it."
You are absolutely right. Jane was always thinking herself first and others second. Kenny was always thinking others first and it showed alr… moreeady during the season 1. Yes he is a hot headed redneck asshole sometimes but he always cares about the people who show him to be trustworthy. What finally really shifted my allegiance to Kenny in the last episode was the talk when Clem tried to get Jane and Kenny to join others at the fire. Jane really showed what kind of person she is at there. And I was really feeling sorry for taking the sip of rum from her. Even there Kenny was thinking the best of Clem like he always have. A great guy, little short tempered but a good one. And Arvo really deserved the asskicking he got from him. And again it was Kenny who was right about who to trust...
Hes looking out for Clem until the very end. He doesnt want her growing up with the guilt of his death on her shoulders. Thats what that line is about.
Think back to the "Previously on..." at the start of the game. Carver says:
"Killing one in order to save many, is part of survival"
The difference between our characters, is Jane is of the same mindset as Carver, and why shouldnt she be. All the warning flags are there, shes part of Carvers group. She gets in and out all the time - OF A FORTRES LIKE COMPLEX. Shes seperated like shes a prisoner, but whos to say she isnt a mole? She a lone wolf with no ties. She abandons the group (whos to say she didnt go back to Howes to make a report to the 2ic?)
And at the end of the day, she is willing to sacrifice one, to save many.
Ahh as long as its a technicality is fine. 1.Batman wouldn't shoot someone's cock off and then walk away unblinking. 2. Batman isn't in the walking dead. 3. Are you blind? She shot a guys dick off, she's a nutter. That's called killing someone, she created a chain of events that caused his death (she shoots his dick off then he dies) that's murder.
I've never killed someone who hasn't wrong me in some way. Yes, she did say that. I'm aware. That's not to say she was upset about saving th… moree group though. That obviously meant she didn't enjoy harming people unless she was provoked. I take it as a good thing. It's good to feel remorse for hurting people, even if that's hard in the ZA.
Besides, never killed a real person? Troy. That's a technicality though, and that is a huge difference, even if it doesn't seem like it. I'll use batman as an example (stay with me here, it's relevant xD) Batman doesn't kill people, but in an episode when a train is about to crash the bad guy looks his way, smirks and says "You can't kill me." Batmans reply is simply "No, but I don't have to save you either." That's all Jane did. She didn't save Troy, and that's easier on the conscience than truly being the way to drain someone's life. Truly killing someone is very hard, walking away from someone can make yo… [view original content]
I dunno about you but if someone pulls a knife on me, there's no way in hell I'm going to trust them and am going to feel threatened no matter what. She also followed the group without them knowing so killing her is going to be the only way they'd be safe, since she could follow them and sneak up on them later. And because after she said she could take him even without the knife as she puts it away, only means she took the knife out to provoke a violent reaction. Her actions are clearly manipulative. She wanted to fight; she wanted to kill him and find a way to do it to justify it to Clem and make it look like self defense when it wasn't.
No she didn't. If she really wanted to end the fight she could have either told him what happened to AJ and stopped lying to him as well as not jump on Kenny and start beating on him when Clem tries to tear Kenny away. At that point they're separated there was no need for her to hit him if she didn't want to fight, but instead she keeps it going because that's exactly what she wants.
I can't see why so many people are siding with Jane in that moment. At least not if you are trying to really play as Clem (and not as the player yourself).
Kenny: A very good friend of yours, since the beginning of the ZA + the last person who also knew Lee (and was his friend if you played that way). Even if Kenny was a bit hostile to Lee in your playthrough, he was always nice to Clementine. Another thing was, that Clem knew Kenny as a good person and felt kind of responsible for him too, since everyone was telling her that she is the only one who can "controll" him.
A.J. : You saw that Clem saw him as a little brother and would do anything for him.
Jane: Clem knew her for a relativly short time and liked her. She helped Clem in surviving and wanted to teach her how to become a better survivour. I am pretty sure that Clem liked her a lot too but more as a cool person and friend.
The scenario how I saw it through Clem's eyes: First, both persons who you really like are keep hurting each other through words. In that situation both said ba things but while Kenny was just saying general stuff like "Nobody likes you", Jane goes nuts and say bad things about Kenny's family (which Clem also liked). Than lateron Jane comes in and says that A.J. is dead because of her. A.J. who was also already loved by Clem, not just by Kenny! Than psycho-rage Kenny starts to attack her (like every father would do). What's her response? Does she try to calm him down to really prove Clem, that he is dangerous? No, she wants to fight back. Than she get choked by Kenny until Clem helps her. Does she now try to end the fight? No, she puts out her knife and try to kill Kenny (without having any real reason.. every normal person would try to calm the rage-guy down in that moment but she just wants to kill him just for fun)
Than you have the gun and have to choose: Do you kill the guy who does everything for you and never did you any wrong (no mather what he did to others.. come on, if you feel attached to someone, it mathers much more what he did to you, not what he did to others) or do you let the person die who just let your little brother die and tried to kill your near-father figure? Never, ever would a real Clementine shoot Kenny in that situation, no mather what the smarter choice is. Even if Clementine would have liked Jane more than Kenny (what would be unrealistic) and if she wouldn't be mad at Jane (what would be unrealistiv too), she wouldn't should Kenny. Would you really kill one good friend, so he can't kill another good friend who just tried to kill the other one?
Of course the thing most people would really have done was no option.. I think most people would have done a shot in the air or would have kicked Kenny.. but well.. Telltale wanted to choose more radical.
Yes, there is a difference, but it was also a different situation. My point stands that she herself did not give the killing blow, she let t… morehe zombies do it. Like it or not, that's different on the psyche. I have studied psychology, both criminal and normal. I'm not saying it wasn't wrong, I'm saying it's different. Fight that point all you want, it doesn't change the fact.
I replied earlier but only used a tag with @ :P, then I realized you wouldn't be able to see that. Oops on me.
Despite putting her knife away, saying leave me alone and saying it was an accident. Yeah, those are real fighting words!!
/sarcasm
I didn't hate Kenny, but the amount of spooning he gets on this forum is laughable.
That's your interpretation of her character, not mine. I agree that she has been manipulative but all those other traits, no. She is extremely cool headed even to the point of coldness, as Clementine pointed out.
That's the one thing j don't understand about all the people who don't have a problem with what Jane did. They're excusing it saying Kenny w… moreas insane, hot headed, violent and would get someone killed.
But that's everything Jane is this episode.
Plus she is manipulative. .. that one person can try to turn someone against someone else is something I despise in a person. It's one of the worst, most disgusting human traits I can think of. Why anyone can condone it is beyond me. No matter what their thoughts on Kenny. The ability to.lie and manipulate should raise a flag...shouldn't it?
Exactly. Kenny "haters" have lost all credibility to me. They will always see Kenny in a bad light, no matter what actually happens in the g… moreame.
That's a silly thing to say. That could be said about anyone. People have different moralities and different opinions. Telltale obviously was making it so some people would like Jane and others would like Kenny. They didn't want want all the facts on the screen or in clear view. All the hate you feel for Jane and all the facts you see, just as many people see against Kenny. That's something we all have to understand.
Isnt the point of Kenny being that he is such a complex character who goes to each extreme? Why do I not have credibility because I dont forgive Kenny for everything? I know he has done some good things, like they all have, but he has done a lot of things that I take issue with
That is fair, and I wouldn't ever question your ability to be unbiased. My message there does not apply to people like you.
I feel like the point of Kenny's character this season was to see him escalate to the breaking point, and then be redeemed in the end.
I completely agree. The actions of purposely taking him to that breaking point is what I have a problem with though.
I agree with you. What some supporters of Kenny dont seem to understand is that because you do something good doesnt completely erase everyt… morehing else. Isnt the point of Kenny being that he is such a complex character who goes to each extreme? Why do I not have credibility because I dont forgive Kenny for everything? I know he has done some good things, like they all have, but he has done a lot of things that I take issue with and I feel like the point of Kenny's character this season was to see him escalate to the breaking point, and then be redeemed in the end.
You mean, people refuse to take your side and agree with you. That's not the same thing as not accepting any opinion. If I believe something about Kenny based on my experiences with him, I'm not going to just drop them because someone else feels the opposite. I understand your point of view based on your experiences but I don't agree. And I'm sorry but I really don't believe that most people would act the way Kenny has. Not even most people in the game, who had gone through the same things he did, acted the same way. It has nothing to do with being infallible and making mistakes and everything to do with Kenny's character and his attitude and his seeming inability to control his rage.
Actually everyone I see who is against Kenny is stubborn (they refuse to accept any opinion other than theirs) hot tempered (they're usually… more rude to any pro Kenny forumer and resort to using insults) and not violent but perfectly unpleasant people.
He is the most realistically written person in the game. And yes. If I went through what Kenny had been through. Yes. I'd probably be like him. As would most of us here, as much as everyone denies it.
At least I have the ability to look at every side of the discussion and look at it rationally. Have the grace to admit that I am not infallible and would likely make the same.mistakes in the same situation.
Isnt the point of Kenny being that he is such a complex character who goes to each extreme? Why do I not have credibility because I dont for… moregive Kenny for everything? I know he has done some good things, like they all have, but he has done a lot of things that I take issue with
That is fair, and I wouldn't ever question your ability to be unbiased. My message there does not apply to people like you.
I feel like the point of Kenny's character this season was to see him escalate to the breaking point, and then be redeemed in the end.
I completely agree. The actions of purposely taking him to that breaking point is what I have a problem with though.
And to everything else I said? I know that you only get that if you say that maybe Lee shouldn't have gone to get you, but the thing is usually there's only three responses and then the option for silence, and if you don't pick the one option in which you agree with him, you either get an argumentative response or a threat.
You take that line way out of context. You only get that reply when you tell him "Maybe he shouldnt have" When he tells you about Lee search… moreing half of Georgia to look for Clem. When you reply "Maybe he shouldnt have" Kenny says "Dont you say that...do you have any idea what he sacrificed for you? What I did?" Then very softly, and sadly whilst turning away to the window "I should slap you"
Telling Kenny that He and Lee should have left you to die hurt him, really hurt him. Thats why you get that line. He doesnt want to slap you....he says it in such a resigned way its like hes given up.
I really don't get how someone can murder Kenny after the 2 seasons that they have been with him. Kenny is like a father to Clementine how could you kill someone like that, who loves you and would do anything to protect you. Not to mention he was Lees best friend and devoted to raising AJ right!
I really don't get how someone can murder Kenny after the 2 seasons that they have been with him. Kenny is like a father to Clementine how c… moreould you kill someone like that, who loves you and would do anything to protect you. Not to mention he was Lees best friend and devoted to raising AJ right!
I really don't get how someone can murder Kenny after the 2 seasons that they have been with him. Kenny is like a father to Clementine how c… moreould you kill someone like that, who loves you and would do anything to protect you. Not to mention he was Lees best friend and devoted to raising AJ right!
I really don't get how someone can murder Kenny after the 2 seasons that they have been with him. Kenny is like a father to Clementine how c… moreould you kill someone like that, who loves you and would do anything to protect you. Not to mention he was Lees best friend and devoted to raising AJ right!
She told him it was an accident and he tried to murder her.
Well no duh she was lying. We all had seen how she acted in the past and how she was ALWAYS only caring for herself. The first chance she disappears without someone watching her and she happens to have the baby and she comes back immediately without the baby. It was so evident she wanted that baby gone before the fight happened it was ridiculous. On my first playthrough I had a sickening kind of feeling that she had just left it out in the snow so she could run faster or killed it in general. Luckily she just hid him but still. Kenny got the same feeling I got.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...Do you really think that if she said that the baby was fine Kenny would have believed her?
At that point Jane leads him to the car and says "Here's the baby." He'd still have been pissed that she even TRIED to do what she did. What she did was f*cking ridiculous by all standards. Anyone who sided with Jane in my opinion only did so cuz they were tired of listening to Kenny bitch.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...Do you really think that if she said that the baby was fine Kenny would have believed her? When … morethey got to the house he randomly started beating on Arvo because he assumed there weren't any supplies in the house, even though there were; then, when Jane says that the baby died and says it's an accident, he starts beating on her because he assumes she killed AJ.
It doesn't makes it any better, looking at the self-centered, manipulative background jane had even if it did was an accident, you couldn't … morereally know for sure if she was saying the truth or she just left the baby there as bait to save herself from zombies.
Im guessing the possible death of AJ was not that big on some players because the baby was only in the game for 2 episodes, but im pretty sure if it was clem instead of the baby you would've shot jane no questions asked.
Comments
What I got from that line is that Jane wanted to leave with Clementine AND AJ at that moment, because if they waited for Kenny he wouldn't let AJ go with Clementine and Jane.
Are U fucking kidding me -.-
Kenny has many flaws, and I acknowledge that. I'm not a Kenny fan, I don't really even like him, but it was because I thought the baby was actually dead. Given Jane's shady background, and how hard it would be for her to accidentally lose the baby, as you can't just drop it, and the walkers were frozen, I thought she killed it. I was so pissed at Jane, I wanted to shoot her myself.
And me....their main argument is he is a danger. But I have yet to see anything where he is actively putting people in harms way. He is always looking out for the benefit of everyone. It's just that's sometimes it doesn't work out.
He doesn't set out to get people killed (like Jane did with Kenny!)
His decisions are sound ones. It's the way he communicates them to others where there is a problem.
You put another strong personality there and they are automatically going to clash with him no matter what. It's like what Bonnie said...alpha males and all that ...#
That's the one thing j don't understand about all the people who don't have a problem with what Jane did. They're excusing it saying Kenny was insane, hot headed, violent and would get someone killed.
But that's everything Jane is this episode.
Plus she is manipulative. .. that one person can try to turn someone against someone else is something I despise in a person. It's one of the worst, most disgusting human traits I can think of. Why anyone can condone it is beyond me. No matter what their thoughts on Kenny. The ability to.lie and manipulate should raise a flag...shouldn't it?
Lee and Kenny essentially had the same morals. The same ideas, Lee would often want to hold up and think it through. But he'd go with what Kenny said. Because even though it was a deplorable option. The state the world was in, it was often the only "right" thing they could do.
Like leaving the girl to get eaten when they were getting supplies from the pharmacy. Wanting to save her is a good, normal human reaction. But it would more than likely get you killed too. It wasnt like she was 3 feet away and they could grab her. She was 50ft away surrounded by walkers. It would take a miracle to get her out unbitten.
Remember what Jane said about rescuing the guy under the truck? They lost 4 guys and he was bitten anyway.
Whilst it was morally right to try and save him. It was the wrong decision.
Sometimes you have to do something morally wrong, to make the right one. Like leaving the girl. You'll know that if you played more than once. I tried to save her...an the outcome was far worse than when I left her.
My Lee would definitely react the way Kenny did, he had reactions like that during season 1 ...why wouldnt he in season 2 after the added strain of survivng years in the ZA?
Kenny was the only member of that group (bar Clem, and maybe Luke) with any real attachment to that baby, and with good reason. He bought him into this world. He was a good father, he loved his family so much and he had them taken away in the blink of an eye. Now all of a sudden. Hes a father again. Not because hes chosen to be one. Because no one else wants to be responsible for a baby.
SO of course he bonds with it, its his second chance...and the one good thing in the end of the world. So of course hes going to protect it. It symbolises hope! And without hope, what point is there in surviving? As Kenny says "Its what people like Lee believed in, and people like Jane will never understand."
Not my Clementine she didnt...she questioned every opinion I had!
But thats ok because its Jane that did it....if it was Kenny he'd be a dangerous rage monster who should be executed immediately...
She told her not to get involved so she wouldn't get hurt. She knew Kenny was volatile and didn't want Clem in the way.
Perfect! I love that you bought up the lake bit. Now why did Luje fall through again? BECAUSE THERE WAS TOO MUCH WEIGHT. But never mind that. Lets send the biggest guy out there to the hole in the weak ice to rescue the little girl. Doesnt matter he has much farther to walk than the MUCH LIGHTER person who is also much closer. He should have rescue her anyway. Off with his head!
She says she killed him because he posed no threat to her, but she still saved them
Ok...Jane makes a mistake and doesnt deserve to die
Kenny makes a mistake, and deserve to die...
What now??
Ditto that :-)
You take that line way out of context. You only get that reply when you tell him "Maybe he shouldnt have" When he tells you about Lee searching half of Georgia to look for Clem. When you reply "Maybe he shouldnt have" Kenny says "Dont you say that...do you have any idea what he sacrificed for you? What I did?" Then very softly, and sadly whilst turning away to the window "I should slap you"
Telling Kenny that He and Lee should have left you to die hurt him, really hurt him. Thats why you get that line. He doesnt want to slap you....he says it in such a resigned way its like hes given up.
SHe planned it all along, she wanted the guy dead. End of.
Amen!!!
Edit....thats amen to Aquell :-)
Hes looking out for Clem until the very end. He doesnt want her growing up with the guilt of his death on her shoulders. Thats what that line is about.
Think back to the "Previously on..." at the start of the game. Carver says:
"Killing one in order to save many, is part of survival"
The difference between our characters, is Jane is of the same mindset as Carver, and why shouldnt she be. All the warning flags are there, shes part of Carvers group. She gets in and out all the time - OF A FORTRES LIKE COMPLEX. Shes seperated like shes a prisoner, but whos to say she isnt a mole? She a lone wolf with no ties. She abandons the group (whos to say she didnt go back to Howes to make a report to the 2ic?)
And at the end of the day, she is willing to sacrifice one, to save many.
Im glad shes dead
Ahh as long as its a technicality is fine. 1.Batman wouldn't shoot someone's cock off and then walk away unblinking. 2. Batman isn't in the walking dead. 3. Are you blind? She shot a guys dick off, she's a nutter. That's called killing someone, she created a chain of events that caused his death (she shoots his dick off then he dies) that's murder.
I dunno about you but if someone pulls a knife on me, there's no way in hell I'm going to trust them and am going to feel threatened no matter what. She also followed the group without them knowing so killing her is going to be the only way they'd be safe, since she could follow them and sneak up on them later. And because after she said she could take him even without the knife as she puts it away, only means she took the knife out to provoke a violent reaction. Her actions are clearly manipulative. She wanted to fight; she wanted to kill him and find a way to do it to justify it to Clem and make it look like self defense when it wasn't.
No she didn't. If she really wanted to end the fight she could have either told him what happened to AJ and stopped lying to him as well as not jump on Kenny and start beating on him when Clem tries to tear Kenny away. At that point they're separated there was no need for her to hit him if she didn't want to fight, but instead she keeps it going because that's exactly what she wants.
I can't see why so many people are siding with Jane in that moment. At least not if you are trying to really play as Clem (and not as the player yourself).
Kenny: A very good friend of yours, since the beginning of the ZA + the last person who also knew Lee (and was his friend if you played that way). Even if Kenny was a bit hostile to Lee in your playthrough, he was always nice to Clementine. Another thing was, that Clem knew Kenny as a good person and felt kind of responsible for him too, since everyone was telling her that she is the only one who can "controll" him.
A.J. : You saw that Clem saw him as a little brother and would do anything for him.
Jane: Clem knew her for a relativly short time and liked her. She helped Clem in surviving and wanted to teach her how to become a better survivour. I am pretty sure that Clem liked her a lot too but more as a cool person and friend.
The scenario how I saw it through Clem's eyes: First, both persons who you really like are keep hurting each other through words. In that situation both said ba things but while Kenny was just saying general stuff like "Nobody likes you", Jane goes nuts and say bad things about Kenny's family (which Clem also liked). Than lateron Jane comes in and says that A.J. is dead because of her. A.J. who was also already loved by Clem, not just by Kenny! Than psycho-rage Kenny starts to attack her (like every father would do). What's her response? Does she try to calm him down to really prove Clem, that he is dangerous? No, she wants to fight back. Than she get choked by Kenny until Clem helps her. Does she now try to end the fight? No, she puts out her knife and try to kill Kenny (without having any real reason.. every normal person would try to calm the rage-guy down in that moment but she just wants to kill him just for fun)
Than you have the gun and have to choose: Do you kill the guy who does everything for you and never did you any wrong (no mather what he did to others.. come on, if you feel attached to someone, it mathers much more what he did to you, not what he did to others) or do you let the person die who just let your little brother die and tried to kill your near-father figure? Never, ever would a real Clementine shoot Kenny in that situation, no mather what the smarter choice is. Even if Clementine would have liked Jane more than Kenny (what would be unrealistic) and if she wouldn't be mad at Jane (what would be unrealistiv too), she wouldn't should Kenny. Would you really kill one good friend, so he can't kill another good friend who just tried to kill the other one?
Of course the thing most people would really have done was no option.. I think most people would have done a shot in the air or would have kicked Kenny.. but well.. Telltale wanted to choose more radical.
I did see it, I just chose to ignore it.
Yeah, Clem telling her to run away and she pushed her away instead. No, she didn't want a fight.
/sarcasm
I didn't hate Jane either until this episode...
That's your interpretation of her character, not mine. I agree that she has been manipulative but all those other traits, no. She is extremely cool headed even to the point of coldness, as Clementine pointed out.
I wasn't talking about the decision making of killing Kenny or not..
I not only condone it, I endorse it.
That is fair, and I wouldn't ever question your ability to be unbiased. My message there does not apply to people like you.
I completely agree. The actions of purposely taking him to that breaking point is what I have a problem with though.
You mean, people refuse to take your side and agree with you. That's not the same thing as not accepting any opinion. If I believe something about Kenny based on my experiences with him, I'm not going to just drop them because someone else feels the opposite. I understand your point of view based on your experiences but I don't agree. And I'm sorry but I really don't believe that most people would act the way Kenny has. Not even most people in the game, who had gone through the same things he did, acted the same way. It has nothing to do with being infallible and making mistakes and everything to do with Kenny's character and his attitude and his seeming inability to control his rage.
Well, its nice to know we agree on something Kenny related lol.
Why are kenny fans up in arms over OTHER peoples choices?
And to everything else I said? I know that you only get that if you say that maybe Lee shouldn't have gone to get you, but the thing is usually there's only three responses and then the option for silence, and if you don't pick the one option in which you agree with him, you either get an argumentative response or a threat.
That is hilarious
I really don't get how someone can murder Kenny after the 2 seasons that they have been with him. Kenny is like a father to Clementine how could you kill someone like that, who loves you and would do anything to protect you. Not to mention he was Lees best friend and devoted to raising AJ right!
Put him down not murder
Stupid double post
Uh my Kenny left me (Lee) to die would not help me find clem
Well no duh she was lying. We all had seen how she acted in the past and how she was ALWAYS only caring for herself. The first chance she disappears without someone watching her and she happens to have the baby and she comes back immediately without the baby. It was so evident she wanted that baby gone before the fight happened it was ridiculous. On my first playthrough I had a sickening kind of feeling that she had just left it out in the snow so she could run faster or killed it in general. Luckily she just hid him but still. Kenny got the same feeling I got.
At that point Jane leads him to the car and says "Here's the baby." He'd still have been pissed that she even TRIED to do what she did. What she did was f*cking ridiculous by all standards. Anyone who sided with Jane in my opinion only did so cuz they were tired of listening to Kenny bitch.
EXACTLY! Why not so many people thought of it that way? I feel like TTG wanted to bait us into killing Kenny...