There is no need to be harsh. This discussion seemed calm as far as I can tell. Now, I for one liked Kenny. He was a good man with clouded judgments at times, but honestly he has gone off the deep end. My Lee even convinced Kenny to come search for Clementine, but lets face it. Had this been Lee in this situation, his top priority would be what is best for Clementine and the baby. At this point he would see that Kenny was to agressive. He would have had a hard time with it, but he would protect the group no matter the cause.
Reminder that Lee's biggest wish was to find a safe place for Clem to live, and Kenny delivers her to bloody Wellington at the expense of hi… mores own safety and possibly life.
What Lee would have really done is exactly what Kenny did in his ending, which is to make Clem and AJ stay at Wellington so they can be safe.
Depends on what you have Lee say and do.
I had Lee calmly talk to Kenny, and allow Kenny to express himself; about the guilt he had about Shaun Greene's death, and now the anguish he had over his own son dying.
And then not only attempt to comfort Kenny, but then having Lee volunteer to euthanize Duck for him, and then following through on the offer.
So MY Lee would not have shot Kenny.
Just like MY Clementine didn't, nor abandoning Kenny at Wellington, but instead staying with him, just like family.
my lee didn't steal shit, and I helped larry the second time, and shot that girl, and he was still my bro soooo......... and don't critize that lee you sound like an asshole
Your Lee must not have been a good person. If he was Kenny's "bro", than I assume you murdered Larry, stole the supplies from the car, left … morea girl to get eaten in the streets, left Lilly behind all alone, and dropped Ben to his death (against Clementines wishes). Yeah, I bet your Lee would have gotten along just fine with season 2 Kenny.
well my lee..... and he would've killed both bonnie and mike and hang harry potter by the fucking nuts brake his other fucking leg and arms and face and leave his hang for the damn walkers.
My Lee didn't steal, never murdered anyone [Larry's death was necessary and you know it. It wasn't cold blooded murder],brought Lilly along and spared Ben, and Ken still gave him the bro speech at the end.You're assuming a lot there.
Always caring for his family, not beating him up at the train and comforting him about about his family's deaths counts more than most of those other choices for Kenny to like Lee.
Your Lee must not have been a good person. If he was Kenny's "bro", than I assume you murdered Larry, stole the supplies from the car, left … morea girl to get eaten in the streets, left Lilly behind all alone, and dropped Ben to his death (against Clementines wishes). Yeah, I bet your Lee would have gotten along just fine with season 2 Kenny.
My Lee and Kenny were BEST pals.
Lee saved Duck on Herschel's farm, and then stood up to Larry on his behalf.
My Lee did help Kenny kill Larry, ( That whole Meat-locker incident, was an IMPOSSIBLE situation. And it seemed like the safer call to make. It's to bad there wasn't another way. I really wish there would have been.)
My Lee did NOT help loot the station wagon. ( Didn't matter how in need the group was. Stealing is never right.)
Same with the girl at the drugstore. (My conscious just couldn't let me allow that to happen to her. So out of compassion, I had Lee shoot her.)
Lee abandoned Lilly on the side of the road. (Her cold-heartless attitude towards other, like Ben and his injured friend, made me sick. After Lilly murdered Carly, I had had enough of her.)
I had Lee euthanize Duck. ( Out of compassion for Kenny). And I didn't have to have Lee fight Kenny, to get him to face the unpleasant truth!
And I had Lee do the same with the boy in the attic. ( When I saw how hard it was for Kenny to go through with it.)
My Lee refused to boot Ben out of the group, as well as refusing to drop him from the tower. ( After seeing his heartfelt regret, I couldn't let him die. And seeing how monstrous Crawford was, I didnt want Lee, or any of the group to become anything like them. So I had Lee save him.)
And after all this, when Lee was in need, even though I had Lee volunteer to go alone, Kenny jumped at the chance to help; refusing to let Lee go off on his own. ( And I had Lee keep his bite a secret.)
So yes, MY Lee would've continued to side with Kenny during Season 2, if he'd lived.
So, Zara X, what do you think?
Was MY Lee a bad guy?
Your Lee must not have been a good person. If he was Kenny's "bro", than I assume you murdered Larry, stole the supplies from the car, left … morea girl to get eaten in the streets, left Lilly behind all alone, and dropped Ben to his death (against Clementines wishes). Yeah, I bet your Lee would have gotten along just fine with season 2 Kenny.
Your Lee must not have been a good person. If he was Kenny's "bro", than I assume you murdered Larry, stole the supplies from the car, left … morea girl to get eaten in the streets, left Lilly behind all alone, and dropped Ben to his death (against Clementines wishes). Yeah, I bet your Lee would have gotten along just fine with season 2 Kenny.
What about the one Jane lets Clem go off on her own without even trying to stop her?
Yep, she sure cares about Clemmy.
It goes both ways, you know,so don't even start.
The following is my opinion, but If the kid I was trying to protect pulled a gun on me in that situation, I think I'd just let them do it too. It'd crush me inside.
I'm sure Clem killed Kenny before she even pulled the trigger when she pointed the gun at him.
What? He tells Clementine to shoot him because he's ready to meet his end because after Clementine points the gun at him he realizes what he has done. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about Clementine he just realizes that even Clementine doesn't want him around anymore. What are you supposed to do when someone points a gun at you? "Oh please don't shoot me because I want to take care of you" ?
all this lee would do done stuff is bullshit you know why?
cause you controlled lee you decided what kind of person lee was so if you shot kenny lee would have shot kenny if you let jane die then lee would have let jane die seriously.....
Besides my Lee not being friends with Kenny, he'd also probably shoot Kenny because Jane reminds me a lot of Molly, who my Lee accidentally shot and killed. I'd imagine there'd being a hint of guilt hanging onto that decision.
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
The people you care about could mean: The group, Alvie, Jane, and yes even Kenny.
What people don't know is that Lee's conversation with Clementine was in reference to Pete's conversation in episode 1. "Sometimes you gotta play a role, even if it means the people you love, hate you for it". So that being said, Clem's dream was to do whatever she thought was right (aka the player's decision). If anything, Lee was telling Clem if it comes down to it, don't feel bad about Kenny as there was nothing that could be done.
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for … morethe people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
The people you care about could mean: The group, Alvie, Jane, and yes even Kenny.
What people don't know is that Lee's conversation with Clementine was in reference to Pete's conversation in episode 1. "Sometimes you gotta play a role, even if it means the people you love, hate you for it". So that being said, Clem's dream was to do whatever she thought was right (aka the player's decision). If anything, Lee was telling Clem if it comes down to it, don't feel bad about Kenny as there was nothing that could be done.
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for … morethe people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
Besides my Lee not being friends with Kenny, he'd also probably shoot Kenny because Jane reminds me a lot of Molly, who my Lee accidentally shot and killed. I'd imagine there'd being a hint of guilt hanging onto that decision.
My Lee knew exactly what Kenny was even from the first season. Kenny tried to leave him to die and almost refused to come save Clementine just because Lee didn't let him bully everyone into letting him be the leader and tried to stay neutral between him and Lily and because he wouldn't smash a man's head in before trying every other option. My Lee saw that man elect to leave a kid behind to die and suggest that Lee drop the kid to his death when it wasn't necessary. My Lee saw a man go from bad to downright dangerous after the death of his family.
And if Lee had been there during season 2, he would have seen a Kenny that blew up at the woman he loved, bashed a man's head in an unnecessary display of brutality and screamed at Clementine over things she couldn't help. He would have seen Kenny be disturbingly violent and cruel and rip apart the fabric of a group. And he would have seen Kenny try to murder a woman over something that was an accident, for all they knew.
My Lee would have looked at that man and seen someone dangerous who was too far gone to be a safe member of his group. A man who could potentially get Clementine killed with his recklessness. A man who had lost it, despite his good intentions.
My Lee would have shot him no question and not let him kill Jane. Then when he figured out what Jane did, he would have taken Clem and Alvie and left Jane behind so they could go off on their own. And that would have been a great ending.
Lee would have neither shot Kenny nor let him kill Jane.
He was a grown and strong man, unlike Clem, and would have easily got them of each other's throats. Lee would have run over there and hit Kenny in the face with something. Then they'd talk it out.
I looked into it and Lee's words are canon. Yes, he can choose not to fight Kenny, but even if he had his back he would say the same thing.
If you had Kenny's back: "I've had your back don't make me regret it!". He would still say the same thing
If you didn't have Kenny's back: "I don't give a fuck if we don't get along! I'm not letting you do this to Kat and Duck". He proceeds to say the quote above.
So even if Kenny and Lee were the greatest of friends, he would still have stopped Kenny
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for … morethe people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
My Lee knew exactly what Kenny was even from the first season. Kenny tried to leave him to die and almost refused to come save Clementine ju… morest because Lee didn't let him bully everyone into letting him be the leader and tried to stay neutral between him and Lily and because he wouldn't smash a man's head in before trying every other option. My Lee saw that man elect to leave a kid behind to die and suggest that Lee drop the kid to his death when it wasn't necessary. My Lee saw a man go from bad to downright dangerous after the death of his family.
And if Lee had been there during season 2, he would have seen a Kenny that blew up at the woman he loved, bashed a man's head in an unnecessary display of brutality and screamed at Clementine over things she couldn't help. He would have seen Kenny be disturbingly violent and cruel and rip apart the fabric of a group. And he would have seen Kenny try to murder a woman over something that was an ac… [view original content]
I think if it was Lee then it wouldn't even have gotten that far. We only had the choices to do what we did because those were the options available to Clementine. Even being shot, I think Lee being there instead would have really changed the situation, no matter how you played him.
Lee would have neither shot Kenny nor let him kill Jane.
He was a grown and strong man, unlike Clem, and would have easily got them of ea… morech other's throats. Lee would have run over there and hit Kenny in the face with something. Then they'd talk it out.
FINALLY. SOMEONE WHO'S NOT A DIE HARD KENNY FAN AN SAYS LEE WOULDA SHOT KENNY... Same here. No matter what Lee you had, Lee would've killed Kenny because it had to be done
Lee didn't mean that growing up means everyone should become a murderer.
He meant that shooting Kenny was the right thing to do. Kenny was driven mad by his losses, and he was about to murder Jane based on assumptions. Lee wanted Clem to do the right thing for Kenny, which was stop him from becoming a monster. By shooting Kenny, he died still a good man and Clem could remember him that way.
Lee would not have stood by and let Kenny and Clem become murderers. A lot of people talk about Kenny vs Jane, but really the big questions are whether your Clem become a murderer and whether she still has enough humanity and morality to raise AJ.
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for … morethe people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
Bitch Jane= Implying Jane was the one who almost killed Arvo, implying that Arvo isn't alive because of her (She talked Kenny into sparing him multiple times), impying that she didn't teach Clem a lot, implying Ken was not a total bitch in season 2 (and he could have been in S1 too)
First, Lee is not Clementine, not a little girl both Kenny and Jane can push around. He could be sympathetic to Kenny for his reaction, could have breaked up the figth easily and could have gotten for the star the meaning of what Jane saids to Clem, that the baby is alive, so he just has to hold Kenny down and separate Jane for him enougth to tell him, explaining his reasoning, and everything could have resolved nicely. Things couldn´t escalate to the point that Kenny is about to kill Jane. So no, Lee couldn´t shoot him. And even if you argue that not every Lee is like that, Scumbag Lee is not even worthy of consideration in a serious argument because he is just a caricature, and the Lee who could dirty his hands to protect Clem couldn´t find himself pressed to either shot Kenny or look away at he couldn´t find any reason to just shoot either of then when he could avoid it. Killing the St John's brothers and the Stranger for Clem is a very different situation.
Comments
There is no need to be harsh. This discussion seemed calm as far as I can tell. Now, I for one liked Kenny. He was a good man with clouded judgments at times, but honestly he has gone off the deep end. My Lee even convinced Kenny to come search for Clementine, but lets face it. Had this been Lee in this situation, his top priority would be what is best for Clementine and the baby. At this point he would see that Kenny was to agressive. He would have had a hard time with it, but he would protect the group no matter the cause.
Good point, but there's no way my Clem would leave Lee, like hell no!
Depends on what you have Lee say and do.
I had Lee calmly talk to Kenny, and allow Kenny to express himself; about the guilt he had about Shaun Greene's death, and now the anguish he had over his own son dying.
And then not only attempt to comfort Kenny, but then having Lee volunteer to euthanize Duck for him, and then following through on the offer.
So MY Lee would not have shot Kenny.
Just like MY Clementine didn't, nor abandoning Kenny at Wellington, but instead staying with him, just like family.
you did not go there.... lol wow
my lee didn't steal shit, and I helped larry the second time, and shot that girl, and he was still my bro soooo......... and don't critize that lee you sound like an asshole
lee kicks everyones ass. end thread.
well my lee..... and he would've killed both bonnie and mike and hang harry potter by the fucking nuts brake his other fucking leg and arms and face and leave his hang for the damn walkers.
To be fair, neither Lee nor Kenny were really themselves that day. They had both lost their homes and their loved ones.
he would have gotten clementine to wellington and did the same as kenny and got her to stay
My Lee didn't steal, never murdered anyone [Larry's death was necessary and you know it. It wasn't cold blooded murder],brought Lilly along and spared Ben, and Ken still gave him the bro speech at the end.You're assuming a lot there.
Always caring for his family, not beating him up at the train and comforting him about about his family's deaths counts more than most of those other choices for Kenny to like Lee.
My Lee and Kenny were BEST pals.
Lee saved Duck on Herschel's farm, and then stood up to Larry on his behalf.
My Lee did help Kenny kill Larry, ( That whole Meat-locker incident, was an IMPOSSIBLE situation. And it seemed like the safer call to make. It's to bad there wasn't another way. I really wish there would have been.)
My Lee did NOT help loot the station wagon. ( Didn't matter how in need the group was. Stealing is never right.)
Same with the girl at the drugstore. (My conscious just couldn't let me allow that to happen to her. So out of compassion, I had Lee shoot her.)
Lee abandoned Lilly on the side of the road. (Her cold-heartless attitude towards other, like Ben and his injured friend, made me sick. After Lilly murdered Carly, I had had enough of her.)
I had Lee euthanize Duck. ( Out of compassion for Kenny). And I didn't have to have Lee fight Kenny, to get him to face the unpleasant truth!
And I had Lee do the same with the boy in the attic. ( When I saw how hard it was for Kenny to go through with it.)
My Lee refused to boot Ben out of the group, as well as refusing to drop him from the tower. ( After seeing his heartfelt regret, I couldn't let him die. And seeing how monstrous Crawford was, I didnt want Lee, or any of the group to become anything like them. So I had Lee save him.)
And after all this, when Lee was in need, even though I had Lee volunteer to go alone, Kenny jumped at the chance to help; refusing to let Lee go off on his own. ( And I had Lee keep his bite a secret.)
So yes, MY Lee would've continued to side with Kenny during Season 2, if he'd lived.
So, Zara X, what do you think?
Was MY Lee a bad guy?
Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.
"Jesus man; I'm from Florida. Crazy shit comes out of my mouth sometimes, sorry!"
Incidentally, though I'm not from Florida, I can totally relate.
Lol!
Lee would've shot Kenny and then once he finds out that the baby is alive he would shoot or leave Jane
My Lee would have fired a warning shot and made Jane say what happened to AJ at gunpoint. Finding out its all an act I'd leave them both there.
Right, the one where he tells Clementine to just kill him because he thinks AJ is dead.
Yep, he sure cares about Clemmy.
What about the one Jane lets Clem go off on her own without even trying to stop her?
Yep, she sure cares about Clemmy.
It goes both ways, you know,so don't even start.
The following is my opinion, but If the kid I was trying to protect pulled a gun on me in that situation, I think I'd just let them do it too. It'd crush me inside.
I'm sure Clem killed Kenny before she even pulled the trigger when she pointed the gun at him.
What? He tells Clementine to shoot him because he's ready to meet his end because after Clementine points the gun at him he realizes what he has done. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about Clementine he just realizes that even Clementine doesn't want him around anymore. What are you supposed to do when someone points a gun at you? "Oh please don't shoot me because I want to take care of you" ?
all this lee would do done stuff is bullshit you know why?
cause you controlled lee you decided what kind of person lee was so if you shot kenny lee would have shot kenny if you let jane die then lee would have let jane die seriously.....
Besides my Lee not being friends with Kenny, he'd also probably shoot Kenny because Jane reminds me a lot of Molly, who my Lee accidentally shot and killed. I'd imagine there'd being a hint of guilt hanging onto that decision.
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
No pun intended!
Right?
Alright everyone who thinks that Lee would kill Kenny listen to what he said in the dream. "But part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about ... Even if it means hurting someone else" if you tell me that through both seasons you haven't cared about Kenny then you're lying! You cared about Kenny so did Lee. Lee would have let Kenny kill Jane because overall Kenny is the one he cares about the most and even if that means hurting someone else!
Lee would of protected Kenny.
Kenny was my friend...
See how easy that was? I justified my answer by a player choice.
The people you care about could mean: The group, Alvie, Jane, and yes even Kenny.
What people don't know is that Lee's conversation with Clementine was in reference to Pete's conversation in episode 1. "Sometimes you gotta play a role, even if it means the people you love, hate you for it". So that being said, Clem's dream was to do whatever she thought was right (aka the player's decision). If anything, Lee was telling Clem if it comes down to it, don't feel bad about Kenny as there was nothing that could be done.
The people you care about could mean: The group, Alvie, Jane, and yes even Kenny.
What people don't know is that Lee's conversation with Clementine was in reference to Pete's conversation in episode 1. "Sometimes you gotta play a role, even if it means the people you love, hate you for it". So that being said, Clem's dream was to do whatever she thought was right (aka the player's decision). If anything, Lee was telling Clem if it comes down to it, don't feel bad about Kenny as there was nothing that could be done.
I'm curious, how did you kill Molly?
My Lee would've kicked both their asses, checked on the damn kid, and then go to Wellington.
My Lee knew exactly what Kenny was even from the first season. Kenny tried to leave him to die and almost refused to come save Clementine just because Lee didn't let him bully everyone into letting him be the leader and tried to stay neutral between him and Lily and because he wouldn't smash a man's head in before trying every other option. My Lee saw that man elect to leave a kid behind to die and suggest that Lee drop the kid to his death when it wasn't necessary. My Lee saw a man go from bad to downright dangerous after the death of his family.
And if Lee had been there during season 2, he would have seen a Kenny that blew up at the woman he loved, bashed a man's head in an unnecessary display of brutality and screamed at Clementine over things she couldn't help. He would have seen Kenny be disturbingly violent and cruel and rip apart the fabric of a group. And he would have seen Kenny try to murder a woman over something that was an accident, for all they knew.
My Lee would have looked at that man and seen someone dangerous who was too far gone to be a safe member of his group. A man who could potentially get Clementine killed with his recklessness. A man who had lost it, despite his good intentions.
My Lee would have shot him no question and not let him kill Jane. Then when he figured out what Jane did, he would have taken Clem and Alvie and left Jane behind so they could go off on their own. And that would have been a great ending.
Lee would have neither shot Kenny nor let him kill Jane.
He was a grown and strong man, unlike Clem, and would have easily got them of each other's throats. Lee would have run over there and hit Kenny in the face with something. Then they'd talk it out.
I looked into it and Lee's words are canon. Yes, he can choose not to fight Kenny, but even if he had his back he would say the same thing.
If you had Kenny's back: "I've had your back don't make me regret it!". He would still say the same thing
If you didn't have Kenny's back: "I don't give a fuck if we don't get along! I'm not letting you do this to Kat and Duck". He proceeds to say the quote above.
So even if Kenny and Lee were the greatest of friends, he would still have stopped Kenny
Wait, I thought Lee was supposed to take the place of Clem in this scenario, so Clem wouldnt be there right?
I think if it was Lee then it wouldn't even have gotten that far. We only had the choices to do what we did because those were the options available to Clementine. Even being shot, I think Lee being there instead would have really changed the situation, no matter how you played him.
Um hello, "had to be done" I believe there was an option to kill the bitch Jane and leave happily with Kenny!
Lee is whatever we choose for him to be. His personality and choices aren't set in stone.
As are Clem's in Season 2.
Lee didn't mean that growing up means everyone should become a murderer.
He meant that shooting Kenny was the right thing to do. Kenny was driven mad by his losses, and he was about to murder Jane based on assumptions. Lee wanted Clem to do the right thing for Kenny, which was stop him from becoming a monster. By shooting Kenny, he died still a good man and Clem could remember him that way.
Lee would not have stood by and let Kenny and Clem become murderers. A lot of people talk about Kenny vs Jane, but really the big questions are whether your Clem become a murderer and whether she still has enough humanity and morality to raise AJ.
Bitch Jane= Implying Jane was the one who almost killed Arvo, implying that Arvo isn't alive because of her (She talked Kenny into sparing him multiple times), impying that she didn't teach Clem a lot, implying Ken was not a total bitch in season 2 (and he could have been in S1 too)
Are you serious ZaraX? No, of course you are.
First, Lee is not Clementine, not a little girl both Kenny and Jane can push around. He could be sympathetic to Kenny for his reaction, could have breaked up the figth easily and could have gotten for the star the meaning of what Jane saids to Clem, that the baby is alive, so he just has to hold Kenny down and separate Jane for him enougth to tell him, explaining his reasoning, and everything could have resolved nicely. Things couldn´t escalate to the point that Kenny is about to kill Jane. So no, Lee couldn´t shoot him. And even if you argue that not every Lee is like that, Scumbag Lee is not even worthy of consideration in a serious argument because he is just a caricature, and the Lee who could dirty his hands to protect Clem couldn´t find himself pressed to either shot Kenny or look away at he couldn´t find any reason to just shoot either of then when he could avoid it. Killing the St John's brothers and the Stranger for Clem is a very different situation.
Lee would've stop the fight between Kenny and Jane in the first place.
If Lee would've shot Kenny ,then...
Why didn't Lee shoot Lilly after she killed one of our group members ...? Instead of "leave" or "take her" option...