Kenny and Lilly are the same.
If we look back at season1 episode3, (for those who picked Carley) we saw how Lilly killed Carley, just because she belived that she had been stealing the supplies. Now, we all know how Carley started to provoke Lilly just before she got shot to the cheek.
The situation the happened between Jane and Kenny was pretty similar. Kenny could not have possibly known what really happened with the baby, just like Lilly couldnt have possibly knows if Carley was stealing the supplies, but does anyone actually think that shooting Carley/stabbing Jane was justified at that moment?
To me, both Lilly and Kenny are in the end just irrational murderers and that is the reason i will never take Lilly to the RV or let Kenny murder Jane.
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
No they're not. And welcome to the forums.
Yes they are
It's your opinion so whatever you want
I think you are extremely simplifying. The situations where you compare them were quite different.
Those comparisons do not compare equally in any regard really, with the exception that someone dies in each.
One event comparison doesn't make the characters equal to one another anyway.
There ain't nothing "peach" about you peaches.
Peach is as Peach does
Peach is as annoying and childish as peach.
Peach is rubber you are glue
Yes. And the flashback was a foreshadow of that point.
I believe it was a simple choice, Bare with your unstable friend even if they do stupid things, Or choose the other side.
Lee's quote in the flashback is a very solid proof of my theory.
I would say similar, but not the same. Both were broken and turn violent as a result. I think drawing some attention to that was the point of returning to the scene in the RV after Lilly's murder.
However Kenny does have better reasons to suspect Jane (she was the only other one there) even if attacking her wasn't justified, and is a bit more sympathetic after it you find out that Jane was deliberately provoking him to prove a point.
There is also the fact that he genuinely does care about Clementine and is a lot more loyal than Lilly was. He doesn't abandon you later if you save him.
I really only saw that as a tie into talking about making right and wrong decisions. I don't think it was really trying to relate the situations to each other in my opinion. I just really don't see a comparison.
Well why not? Both Lilly and Kenny had lost people who they cared about, and they were a bit unstable, and someone who they tought were guilty got killed, after they provoked them(well, if you choose to let kenny kill her). Neither of them listened to reason and they just end up acting on irrational thoughts.
All tough, i think Kenny is worse than Lilly, mainly because of all the shit ive seen in these 2 seasons from Kenny.
-Not helping Lee to save Shawn
-Being stubborn about everything, and if you're not agreeing, he gets mad at you
-Killed Larry without hesitation
-Uses the girl as walker bait in start of season 3
-Doesnt help Lee in the pharmacy when he gets stuck under the door
-Wanted to leave Lilly behind at the motel
-Gets angry at lee for trying to reason with him in the train
-Wants to kill Ben, wants Lee to kill ben, gets mad if you dont kill Ben
-Doesnt give a shit about Omid
-Causes the death of Walter (and Alvin if you choose to let him)
-Behaves like ricktator on both seasons
-Beats young people, no matter the gender
-Doesnt help clem to get warm, but instead wants to beat arvo when they get the house
Im sure i forgot some, but those are some reasons i dislike kenny, but main reason is how he behaved on season 2.
ps. For some reason, i got a bit off topic
, but i spent time on that, so might aswell post it.
Jane also does cares about Clementine, the whole reason she provoked Kenny was to get Clementine to realize that she should come with Jane instead of Kenny. (clearly they were going to split very soon)
I agree. I wasn't trying to say she didn't. I only meant that Kenny cares in contrast to how Lilly will kick you out and steal the RV even if you chose every choice in her favour.
If it was to be used in the right or wrong formula, It'd stand in Kenny's favor.
Here's a partition from the Dream dialogue:
Clem: Lee...
Lee: Hmm
Clem: Why did Lilly do that to Carley?
Lee: I don't know. She was sad, Clem. That can make people angry sometimes.
Clem "Determinant" : Have you ever been that angry?
Lee: One time. Clem, People don't always make sense.
Clem: How Come?
Lee: 'cause bad thing happen to everyone. Ad it's hard keep being yourself after they do. What do you think? Should we have left her behind?
Clem "Determinant": Maybe, She's kind of crazy.
Lee: I don't know. She wouldn't make it very long out there alone. I don't know if we did the right thing.
Clem: How can you tell?
Lee: Well, It's not like math, Clem. Sometimes there just isn't a right answer.
Clem: I hate math.
Lee: Me too, Sweat Pea. Yeah, But part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about... Even if sometimes, That means hurting someone else.
Clem: I don't want to hurt anyone.
Lee: It's not that easy.
Actually, Lilly was evident of her accusations, while Kenny's accusations showed no actual evidence.
Now, To analyze it.
"Well, It's not like math, Clem. Sometimes there just isn't a right answer." - I believe it means that you go by your guts and what do you feel and believe in. That there can't be one right answer.
"But part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about... Even if sometimes, That means hurting someone else." - Same situation of Lilly and Kenny. Anger management after the loss of loved ones that causes someone else to be killed along the way. Do you really care that much about them to bare with them, Or you don't and you're going in the opposite direction? That's the decision that Telltale left upon you to decide. And personally, I don't like Kenny that much. His obsessive behavior pisses me off, And I LOVE Jane. So, I picked Jane. But, It's up to YOU To decide.
I always thought Lilly acted out of anger, frustration and hatred and a need to hold on to the delusion that she was still somehow in charge of things (to protect her disintegrating self-identity).
Kenny killing Lilly's father was more of a rational decision but I think one motivated in part also by anger and frustration. Kenny acted too soon. There would have been plenty of time to have dealt with the potential walker threat if they'd just let the situation play out but Kenny saw an opportunity to eliminate both a threat and probably someone that he'd truly grown to dislike.
I think if you take it on face value Jane and Kenny and probably Lilly are all as bad as each other but if you look at the underlying motivations for what they did there are degrees of culpability and rationality behind it (less so where Jane is concerned, as I think this is more down to manipulation of audience perception on telltale's part to introduce Jane as a major character).
They do have a lot in common. But Lilly won't act like that assahole if you disagree with her. I feel really pity when she tried to protect the group from the dangerous one in her mind by actually became the dangerous one who killed an innocent girl/boy. I didn't abandon her, but actually I had no idea about what to do with her...
I never perceived any of my choices as turning against Kenny as I was trying to be completely neutral from the outset, trying to maintain balance and harmony and trying to get everyone to work together.
But, in the end, You had to pick a side.
And the reason Lee was going to prison, was because him killing another man for as simple thing as being angry wasnt justified. Im actually really suprised how irrational (staying with him), since he obviously is worse company for zombie apocalypse than Jane. People who pick kenny arent thinking the way you should have to think in zombie apocalypse, if they want to survive. Having a mentally unstable man with crying baby isnt really improving your chances of survival. And lets be honest, the whole Wellington ending is just boring fairytale from the writers, which tries to make Kenny not look such a bad choice.
I put her back on the R.V. and then played season one through again and that time left her by the side of the road to see how it would play out, but then forgot to rewind.
Then when I got to the end of Season 1 the second time through I saw I'd forgotten to rewind and played through season one again just so that I wouldn't have it recorded in my save file that I'd left her there.
I recently moved to Windows 8 and lost my save file so it looks like I'm going to be playing through season one a fourth time (and no, my Clementine will never ask Lee to shoot him no matter how many times I play the first season (but my Clem would have always put him out of his misery once he started turning anyway, so in my mind it kind of works out).
I think we really need a save editor.
I agree, And disagree. I agree that Kenny is mentally unstable. But he's not like Lee. Kenny has ALWAYS been obsessive about his own views and opinions. Lee was not. My Lee, To be specific. He learned from his mistake and started a new life, As Episode 1 was dubbed, An new day. I also disagree that Kenny is a bad choice. if you do everything he wants, Kenny serves you well. But you can't disagree with him or you'll be screwed.
Well thats the problem, i had friend like Kenny once, he was good guy when everything went as he wanted, but as soon as i disagreed with something or want to do something he did, he became a total prick. Thats not how real friends act.
I agree. But everyone has their own definition of what real friendship is.
Not really. It is possible to remain pretty neutral. If anything you're forced by Kenny's reaction when distributing food at the motel to maintain good relations with him to maintain the status quo, but I only went with that option to break the harmony as little as possible. To be honest I would have like to have said to Kenny "if you want to leave, leave; go, go on." but you can't do that in the middle of the series because the game isn't designed to allow that.
There's a lot of stuff I would have had done differently if I'd had more control over the story but at those moments it just broke the immersion for me and I'd end up thinking something like: well okay, I don't really agree with this but I want to keep playing so I'm just going to re-write this little bit of the story in my head so that I can feel like my concept of who lee is is true to my own character...
...then I'd just continue.
I see. To me, Neutrality has conditions. I'm normally neutral towards every one because I'm hard to impress. I have a certain perspective on who to trust and who to deem worthy. Jane impressed me. She's adaptive, Opportunistic, Resourceful, Survivalist and Smart. She has a lot of traits that are similar to myself personally. That's why i like her, And i found her to be utterly correct about testing Kenny. That's why i sided with her and didn't try to stay neutral.
Exactly the reason i sided with her also. I have very similar way to see things as her, so its easy to like her more than irrational Kenny.
Hehe this thread is convenient actually, because I'm working on a video in Sony Vegas wherw I'm comparing the characters.
Tell you what, I like you.
Well yeah, because she knew that the group wouldnt have her with them after the murder. But for some reason, people like kenny even after he murders someone innocent and even after all the shit he does.
You seem to dislike him because he's not a complete saint, he's not evil, nor is he good, he's just a human being and human beings are complicated and unpredictable creatures who have their own strengths and weaknesses physically and mentally and it all depends on how you look at them in your perspective. As far as Lily goes, Lily was fully intent on killing Ben in cold blood, she didn't mean to kill Doug, BUT she fully intended to kill Carley, Lily doesn't show any kinds of regret, saying Carley couldn't be trusted and so she's acting like Carley had to die, with Kenny though, he shows FULL REGRET on what he did to Jane, he didn't want to do that, and to some degree, by that point Kenny is afraid of what he's capable of once he kills Jane, which is why he doesn't trust himself to look after Clem and AJ. so, I don' think Kenny is worse than Lily, but Lily is not that bad either, she just made a big mistake.
i had to chuckle when kenny compared jane to lily.
Well one thing people dont seem to realise, is that decisions you make in game, should be how you acted on real zombie apocalypse. You make everything to boost your chances to survive, and staying with Jane instead of Kenny is better for your survival. I have very similar worldview as Jane also, so obviously i go with her.
I understand the logic/reasoning behind the plot to push Kenny over the edge and make Clem realise that she is better off without him. And i knew what was going on and i played along.
Putting a baby at risk just to prove a point is an incredibly stupid plan, especially when the entire situation could have been avoided, and the fact that Jane forcefully pushed Kenny over the edge. Jane's ending aren't exactly really inviting, as you don't really have a good idea that you can trust the family or not and the fact that Howe's is very vulnerable to scavengers.