Well if he would have actually stopped and wanted her to explain herself better, i dont think she would have had reason to provoke him to fight, but then her plan would have failed, and Kenny & Clem would most likely abandon her. She wanted to show that Kenny isnt able to change and that he is only going to get worse over time. Clearly Kenny did as she assumed and didnt want to listen.
He literally was not moving at the beginning when Jane had her knife out. Jane did not try to explain herself, even when she had the opportunity. Kenny called her "it was an accident" excuse B.S. (it was painfully obvious it was not legit. No one would believe that), and then all she did was threaten him (x2) instead of actually trying to rationalize. She then put her knife away so he would feel comfortable starting a physical fight.
Kenny backed down because he just got slashed on stomach area with a knife.
So? Doesn't change the fact that the fight should have ended here, and it doesn't change the fact that Jane escalated the fight from a little tussle to a fight involving lethal force.
Well if he would have actually stopped and wanted her to explain herself better, i dont think she would have had reason to provoke him to fi… moreght, but then her plan would have failed, and Kenny & Clem would most likely abandon her.
She wanted to show that Kenny isnt able to change and that he is only going to get worse over time. Clearly Kenny did as she assumed and didnt want to listen.
Kenny backed down because he just got slashed on stomach area with a knife.
And if you beg Kenny to stop and hear Jane out he says "I'm done talking" and shoves Clem aside. This shows the detrimental factor in the fight regarding your actions. If you try and stop Kenny he shows him in a bad light. If you try and stop Jane it shows her in a bad light. Showing that Telltale was looking to give you a chance of seeing how you decide who was in the right in that moment during the fight.
I think none of this matters because Kenny started the fight and I thought it was very obvious that nothing but Jane's death would satisfy him. Once again assuming shit and acting on it like the stubborn bull he's always been.
True, even if Clem tells her to run when Kenny gets stabbed and starts staggering around, she pushes her aside.
At that point, she was going for the kill, too.
As Clementine, I kept Kenny because I knew he would do anything to keep her safe as well as AJ. But even though I am a die hard Kenny fan, I think I might have shot Kenny as I was playing as Lee. But I wouldn't allow Jane to stay with me either after that.
Clearly Jane was Clems friend in the game, no matter what you say. She saved her from the lake and taught you some survival skills and showe… mored that she really cares about you. She was Clementines friend, but Clementine had known Kenny for longer time so obviously she and Kenny were closer than Jane and Clementine.
Kenny was the one who charged... Jane surely provoked him, but right from the start, she proved to Clem that Kenny doesnt want to talk. Kenny threw a punch at her right after he came back inside, without even letting her say a word, and assumed she had killed the baby. After that, Kenny was only focused on killing her without even knowing if his assumption was right. This is what Jane wanted Clementine to see in Kenny. Murderous old man, who doesnt want to get his facts straight before killing someone.
She provoked him and at any point could have stopped the fight. She started by making fun of his family and the. His what he cared about mos… moret and knew it would lead to a fight. I went to stop her when the fight went outside, instead she tossed me to the ground and said " not happening" ! Jane is the one who started the fight and wanted it to go on no matter how much Kenny escalated it!
You were saying that Kenny should not have even jumped the gun on thinking that AJ was dead. I'm saying there wasn't really any logical reason to believe otherwise.
Well talking about how much Jane showed her emotions in the game, id say she was very emotional after killing that russian guy.
But then what else are you basing it on if not her in game emotions? She just said it felt weird killing a man she didn't know.
Like ive told you before, Troy probably raped her or something, since she was so angry at him. You dont just shoot someone to dick for no reason.
I guess you can speculate on that if you want, but there isn't actually anything solid to base that on. I'm personally not going to grasp at straws like that.
Well talking about how much Jane showed her emotions in the game, id say she was very emotional after killing that russian guy.
Like ive … moretold you before, Troy probably raped her or something, since she was so angry at him. You dont just shoot someone to dick for no reason.
She put her knife away so they could start fighting??? What the hell? Jane doesnt seem like person who wants to fight with honor or any of that shit.
She saw that Kenny seemed to calm down, so she put her knife away, and then Kenny charged at her.
Jane was on ground when Kenny was charging at her, so she had to pull out her knife to protect herself. Do you think that a young woman could get someone like Kenny away from herself, if he started choking/punching her while she is on the ground?
Well if he would have actually stopped and wanted her to explain herself better, i dont think she would have had reason to provoke him to fi… moreght, but then her plan would have failed, and Kenny & Clem would most likely abandon her. She wanted to show that Kenny isnt able to change and that he is only going to get worse over time. Clearly Kenny did as she assumed and didnt want to listen.
He literally was not moving at the beginning when Jane had her knife out. Jane did not try to explain herself, even when she had the opportunity. Kenny called her "it was an accident" excuse B.S. (it was painfully obvious it was not legit. No one would believe that), and then all she did was threaten him (x2) instead of actually trying to rationalize. She then put her knife away so he would feel comfortable starting a physical fight.
Kenny backed down because he just got slashed on stomach area with a knife.
So? Doesn't change the fact… [view original content]
My Lee didn't steal, never murdered anyone [Larry's death was necessary and you know it. It wasn't cold blooded murder],brought Lilly along … moreand spared Ben, and Ken still gave him the bro speech at the end.You're assuming a lot there.
Always caring for his family, not beating him up at the train and comforting him about about his family's deaths counts more than most of those other choices for Kenny to like Lee.
Murder vs accident. Please learn the difference. This is twice now where I've had to explain this. Kenny assumed Jane murdered AJ. Hence when he came back in and yelled "YOU KILLED HIM" and Jane says "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" where he loudly says "BULLSHIT" while she's saying it. Making it very clear he would not believe a word she said even if she tried to explain.
My Clementine did not assume Jane murdered the baby. I thought maybe it was an accident. With all teh zombies roaming around in this zombie apocalypse my assumption was that a zombie almost ate her and got the baby from her slipping on the ice OR ANY NUMBER OF possibilities instead of just jumping to MURDER!
I say Clem didn't assume that Jane murdered the baby and this the 2nd time where one of you guys have wondered why I thought the baby was alive. is the only possibility for AJ to die in these harsh conditions were murder?
You were saying that Kenny should not have even jumped the gun on thinking that AJ was dead. I'm saying there wasn't really any logical reason to believe otherwise.
WHAT WOULD HE THINK WHEN SHE DOESNT COME BACK WITH THE BABY! JANE WAS READY TO KILL KENNY TOO. SHE WANTED A FIGHT AND GOT ONE. THANK GOD KENNY KILLED HER but I do wish there was an option to shoot Jane by myself!
Kenny was the one who charged... Jane surely provoked him, but right from the start, she proved to Clem that Kenny doesnt want to talk. … moreKenny threw a punch at her right after he came back inside, without even letting her say a word, and assumed she had killed the baby. After that, Kenny was only focused on killing her without even knowing if his assumption was right. This is what Jane wanted Clementine to see in Kenny. Murderous old man, who doesnt want to get his facts straight before killing someone.
Jane did that because she wanted to take care of Clementine, and she knew that Kenny and she would go seperate ways. She needed to get Clem join her, since she thought that Kenny would just turn into Carver 2.0 and she didnt want Clem to be around Kenny when that would happen.
Well talking about how much Jane showed her emotions in the game, id say she was very emotional after killing that russian guy.
Like ive … moretold you before, Troy probably raped her or something, since she was so angry at him. You dont just shoot someone to dick for no reason.
Well she said "He's..." while almost crying (acting ofc).
After that Kenny went outside and immediately tried to punch her the second he came back in, before she even said a word.
Even after slashing Kenny, Jane was ready to end the fight if Kenny would leave.
WHAT WOULD HE THINK WHEN SHE DOESNT COME BACK WITH THE BABY! JANE WAS READY TO KILL KENNY TOO. SHE WANTED A FIGHT AND GOT ONE. THANK GOD KENNY KILLED HER but I do wish there was an option to shoot Jane by myself!
She put her knife away so they could start fighting??? What the hell?
There is no other logical conclusion to come to. You act like Jane was trying to not have a fight or something. Her whole plan was to have a fight with Kenny. She intentionally tried to push him to that point so she could prove a point to Clem.
Putting her knife away at that point with the intentions of avoiding a fight would obviously be counterproductive to everything she was doing. If Kenny did as she said and didn't come near her, and instead choose to be very calm and rational then everything she was trying to prove would have fallen completely on her head. She would have had to admit the sick agenda she was trying to pull, she would have had to admit that she abandoned AJ in the truck. You really think she was just going to give up on her plan at that point? She wanted Kenny to attack her, and he wasn't doing so while he had the knife out.
She saw that Kenny seemed to calm down, so she put her knife away,
As I said above, that doesn't really make any sense.
Jane was on ground when Kenny was charging at her, so she had to pull out her knife to protect herself.
What do you mean charging at her? You're exaggerating. She went for her knife immediately as he was getting himself off the ground. He took a step around and she immediately went for the kill.
Do you think that a young woman could get someone like Kenny away from herself, if he started choking/punching her while she is on the ground?
She was the one who was intending to fight in the first place, she should have thought about this beforehand, unless you admit that she was willing to kill Kenny even before executing the plan itself.
Kenny wasn't choking her or pounding on her anyway. All he did was hold her to the wall like he did to Mike back in Episode Three.
She put her knife away so they could start fighting??? What the hell? Jane doesnt seem like person who wants to fight with honor or any of t… morehat shit.
She saw that Kenny seemed to calm down, so she put her knife away, and then Kenny charged at her.
Jane was on ground when Kenny was charging at her, so she had to pull out her knife to protect herself. Do you think that a young woman could get someone like Kenny away from herself, if he started choking/punching her while she is on the ground?
Well talking about how much Jane showed her emotions in the game, id say she was very emotional after killing that russian guy.
But … morethen what else are you basing it on if not her in game emotions? She just said it felt weird killing a man she didn't know.
Like ive told you before, Troy probably raped her or something, since she was so angry at him. You dont just shoot someone to dick for no reason.
I guess you can speculate on that if you want, but there isn't actually anything solid to base that on. I'm personally not going to grasp at straws like that.
Well watch it again, she was shocked (and i just realized that Kenny actually killed that last russian guy anyway with bullet to the head).
… more
I know its just an assumption, but it was stated in the game that they have had sex, only thing we can debate about is if she did it willingly.
Being a bully deserves getting your dick shot off and being fed to the walkers now? Even then, he was following orders, and he does save Clem from a walker once.
Actually shooting at people to kill them like the Russians were doing seems more threatening
"It feels wrong... Killing someone who never wronged me.
I thought it was clear. Look at how Troy was. He was downright GIDDY at the idea of beating Sarah.
"It feels wrong... Killing someone who never wronged me.
I thought it was clear. Look at how Troy was. He was downright GIDDY at the idea of beating Sarah.
Doesn't necessarily mean "rape" but knowing Troy its not a stretch to imagine it. Like I said. He was giddy at the prospect of beating a girl. And he hated that whole group. Carver was an evil bastard and a hardass but Troy was clearly a vindictive asshole who enjoyed other people's misery.
You should really watch the fight scene before you debate about it.
She saw that Kenny calmed down and she put her knife away, thinking that Kenny would not fight (well ofc theres that possibility that she was just trying to provoke kenny, but i think thats pretty far-fetched.)
She was on the ground and Kenny was charging at her and could have just pinned her to ground and choke/punch her to death. She realized that she was in bad position and took out her knife and slashed kenny.
She put her knife away so they could start fighting??? What the hell?
There is no other logical conclusion to come to. You act like … moreJane was trying to not have a fight or something. Her whole plan was to have a fight with Kenny. She intentionally tried to push him to that point so she could prove a point to Clem.
Putting her knife away at that point with the intentions of avoiding a fight would obviously be counterproductive to everything she was doing. If Kenny did as she said and didn't come near her, and instead choose to be very calm and rational then everything she was trying to prove would have fallen completely on her head. She would have had to admit the sick agenda she was trying to pull, she would have had to admit that she abandoned AJ in the truck. You really think she was just going to give up on her plan at that point? She wanted Kenny to attack her, and he wasn't doing so while he had the knife out.
She saw tha… [view original content]
And if he wasn't? Who was gonna stop a giant walker in a small room without weapons?
I read somewhere that people turn faster the angrier they are before death. It was why Shane turned so quickly.
"it is implied that possibly she, and Troy had made an agreement that the two would help each other to escape from the 'pen' of the community, through some sexual deals that she offered."
And troy said before dying "Man, you smell really bad. You gotta take a bath before we...(dick shot) play monopoly?"
So its pretty obvious she was having sex with troy in one way or another.
I know its just an assumption, but it was stated in the game that they have had sex, only thing we can debate about is if she did it willingly.
That was never stated anywhere.
No, you don't know for sure if he was alive. It was necessary to do what Kenny did. They couldn't take any chances, because if he really was dead, everyone in that room was going to go as well.
No, you don't know for sure if he was alive. It was necessary to do what Kenny did. They couldn't take any chances, because if he really was dead, everyone in that room was going to go as well.
Yes, we do know for sure he was dead. Otherwise the evidence of the situation makes no sense.
How do we know that for sure? I know he supposedly started to move at the very last second or whatever, but that really doesn't tell us whether he reanimated or somehow miraculously was revived.
Your second sentence is just justifying what he did which I've already said is fine.
But it WASN'T necessary.
Yes, we do know for sure he was dead. Otherwise the evidence of the situation makes no sense.
My Lee was morally righteous, and definitely had Kenny on his side. My Lee would not have shot Kenny because he would have understood what Kenny was going through, and he would understand that Jane was the one who escalated the fight. Realistically Lee wouldn't have shot either of the two. He likely would have been able to separate them.
I have to agree with OP. The only way to get on Kenny's good side was to be morally malicious. For me, and many others, our Lee's were good people, so the good Lee's would have shot Kenny.
There is no 'supposedly'. He does. Check it out if you wish.
If you push 4 times on his chest, he breathes.
And no, it can't be him reanimating. He only breathes if you push on his chest 4 times. If the exact same amount of time passes without you pressing on his chest, he doesn't breathe.
Reanimation is not speeded up by pushing on someone's chest. Therefore, he was perfectly revivable.
Now, he probably would have died after being revived. Maybe he would only have about ten minutes left. But that would have saved Lilly a hell of a lot of emotional trauma by being able to say goodbye etc.
Yes, we do know for sure he was dead. Otherwise the evidence of the situation makes no sense.
How do we know that for sure? I know h… moree supposedly started to move at the very last second or whatever, but that really doesn't tell us whether he reanimated or somehow miraculously was revived.
Lee wasn't just a complete reflection of who the player was though. He did have a somewhat set personality. We can see that in the dream sequence. I don't think Lee would even be given the option to shoot one or the other, he would just separate them. Heck, he would have prevented Kenny from taking Jane's bait in the first place.
I know that's kind of an aside to what you were saying there, just thought I would add on anyway.
all this lee would do done stuff is bullshit you know why?
cause you controlled lee you decided what kind of person lee was so if you shot kenny lee would have shot kenny if you let jane die then lee would have let jane die seriously.....
You should really watch the fight scene before you debate about it. She saw that Kenny calmed down and she put her knife away, thinking that Kenny would not fight (well ofc theres that possibility that she was just trying to provoke kenny, but i think thats pretty far-fetched.)
You're trying to tell me what happened in the scene when there is no proof of what you are saying, and there is zero logic that backs it up. Meanwhille you're 100% ignoring the perfectly logical reasoning I gave you for why Jane put away the knife. Why is that? Like I said, Jane putting the knife away with intentions to avoid a fight makes literally no sense. Its a contradiction to her actual plan. Everything would have failed if the issue was settled peacefully and rationally. She would be in a terrible situation with then having to admit what she tried to do.
She was on the ground and Kenny was charging at her
Jane was on the ground, but like I said, she had already drawn her knife even before Kenny had already gotten up. Kenny never charged at her at this point. He just got up and turned around towards her.
could have just pinned her to ground and choke/punch her to death.
Key phrase: "Could have". There was no indication that Kenny was trying to kill her.
She realized that she was in bad position and took out her knife and slashed kenny.
She realized she was potentially in a bad spot in a fight that she was asking for so that makes it okay for her to just decide shes going to kill the man? And if it was really only about defending herself in that spot, why did she continue to hack and slash at Kenny even after he had disengaged from the fight? Jane simply wanted to kill him.
You should really watch the fight scene before you debate about it.
She saw that Kenny calmed down and she put her knife away, thinking tha… moret Kenny would not fight (well ofc theres that possibility that she was just trying to provoke kenny, but i think thats pretty far-fetched.)
She was on the ground and Kenny was charging at her and could have just pinned her to ground and choke/punch her to death. She realized that she was in bad position and took out her knife and slashed kenny.
Do we actually know this is him taking a breath though..? Was this ever confirmed anywhere? Because its honestly impossible to tell.
Technically walkers breathe in sense... don't they? How else do they make noises? I still don't think there is proof of either way.
Reanimation is not speeded up by pushing on someone's chest. Therefore, he was perfectly revivable
I know it isn't, but if the guy was dead he was dead, even if reviving him was a slight possibility. Pushing on his chest wouldn't have necessarily done anything to prevent him from turning either, for all we know.
There is no 'supposedly'. He does. Check it out if you wish.
If you push 4 times on his chest, he breathes.
And no, it can't be him re… moreanimating. He only breathes if you push on his chest 4 times. If the exact same amount of time passes without you pressing on his chest, he doesn't breathe.
Reanimation is not speeded up by pushing on someone's chest. Therefore, he was perfectly revivable.
Now, he probably would have died after being revived. Maybe he would only have about ten minutes left. But that would have saved Lilly a hell of a lot of emotional trauma by being able to say goodbye etc.
So she putting the knife away, and telling to not come near her, is her way to invite Kenny into a fight?
And you can look over and over again this scene, where she is on ground and as soon as Kenny sees that, he is charging at her and most likely would have pinned her to the ground, if the knife wouldnt have stopped him.
You should really watch the fight scene before you debate about it. She saw that Kenny calmed down and she put her knife away, thinking that… more Kenny would not fight (well ofc theres that possibility that she was just trying to provoke kenny, but i think thats pretty far-fetched.)
You're trying to tell me what happened in the scene when there is no proof of what you are saying, and there is zero logic that backs it up. Meanwhille you're 100% ignoring the perfectly logical reasoning I gave you for why Jane put away the knife. Why is that? Like I said, Jane putting the knife away with intentions to avoid a fight makes literally no sense. Its a contradiction to her actual plan. Everything would have failed if the issue was settled peacefully and rationally. She would be in a terrible situation with then having to admit what she tried to do.
She was on the ground and Kenny was charging at her
Jane was on the ground, but like I … [view original content]
So she putting the knife away, and telling to not come near her, is her way to invite Kenny into a fight?
Yes. There isn't another explanation that makes sense... for reasons I have already explained.
And you can look over and over again this scene, where she is on ground and as soon as Kenny sees that, he is charging at her and most likely would have pinned her to the ground, if the knife wouldnt have
That isn't charging someone... he just got up off the ground and maybe took a step towards her. He didn't try and jump on her. He stood completely upright before getting slashed, though its kind of hard to see in your GIF because its sped up. It just really seems like you're exaggerating a bit.
It honestly doesn't really matter either way I guess, not sure why we're even debating whether he "charged" her or not. Again, Jane wanted that fight. So basically she goaded him into a fight, and was willing to kill him if it came to that. But somehow we're going to blame this on Kenny?
"And if it was really only about defending herself in that spot, why did she continue to hack and slash at Kenny even after he had disengaged from the fight? Jane simply wanted to kill him."
So she putting the knife away, and telling to not come near her, is her way to invite Kenny into a fight?
And you can look over and over … moreagain this scene, where she is on ground and as soon as Kenny sees that, he is charging at her and most likely would have pinned her to the ground, if the knife wouldnt have stopped him.
The same time elapses if you don't push on his chest. The exact same time.
He breathes ONLY if you push on his chest four times within the allotted time limit.
If zombification isn't sped up by pushing, then he can't have been reanimating as he doesn't do that if you don't push on his chest.
Let's say zombification takes 10 seconds. And the time limit in the game is 11 seconds.
If that were the case, for it to have been zombification, no matter WHAT you do in terms of CPR, Larry would have taken that 'breath'. But that doesn't happen.
What could it POSSIBLY be other than breathing, considering it certainly isn't zombification?
Do we actually know this is him taking a breath though..? Was this ever confirmed anywhere? Because its honestly impossible to tell.
Tech… morenically walkers breathe in sense... don't they? How else do they make noises? I still don't think there is proof of either way.
Reanimation is not speeded up by pushing on someone's chest. Therefore, he was perfectly revivable
I know it isn't, but if the guy was dead he was dead, even if reviving him was a slight possibility. Pushing on his chest wouldn't have necessarily done anything to prevent him from turning either, for all we know.
You've ignored the key pieces of my argument.
The same time elapses if you don't push on his chest. The exact same time.
He breathes O… moreNLY if you push on his chest four times within the allotted time limit.
If zombification isn't sped up by pushing, then he can't have been reanimating as he doesn't do that if you don't push on his chest.
Let's say zombification takes 10 seconds. And the time limit in the game is 11 seconds.
If that were the case, for it to have been zombification, no matter WHAT you do in terms of CPR, Larry would have taken that 'breath'. But that doesn't happen.
What could it POSSIBLY be other than breathing, considering it certainly isn't zombification?
all this lee would do done stuff is bullshit you know why?
cause you controlled lee you decided what kind of person lee was so if you shot kenny lee would have shot kenny if you let jane die then lee would have let jane die seriously.....
Didn't mean to ignore what you were saying, I just didn't understand what you were getting at. That's a fair point actually.
Edit:
Actually, in the case that you side with Kenny, aren't you too busy pulling Lilly away to even notice Larry anyway? You never get the same view that you do if you decided to help Lilly with CPR.
You've ignored the key pieces of my argument.
The same time elapses if you don't push on his chest. The exact same time.
He breathes O… moreNLY if you push on his chest four times within the allotted time limit.
If zombification isn't sped up by pushing, then he can't have been reanimating as he doesn't do that if you don't push on his chest.
Let's say zombification takes 10 seconds. And the time limit in the game is 11 seconds.
If that were the case, for it to have been zombification, no matter WHAT you do in terms of CPR, Larry would have taken that 'breath'. But that doesn't happen.
What could it POSSIBLY be other than breathing, considering it certainly isn't zombification?
Comments
He literally was not moving at the beginning when Jane had her knife out. Jane did not try to explain herself, even when she had the opportunity. Kenny called her "it was an accident" excuse B.S. (it was painfully obvious it was not legit. No one would believe that), and then all she did was threaten him (x2) instead of actually trying to rationalize. She then put her knife away so he would feel comfortable starting a physical fight.
So? Doesn't change the fact that the fight should have ended here, and it doesn't change the fact that Jane escalated the fight from a little tussle to a fight involving lethal force.
And if you beg Kenny to stop and hear Jane out he says "I'm done talking" and shoves Clem aside. This shows the detrimental factor in the fight regarding your actions. If you try and stop Kenny he shows him in a bad light. If you try and stop Jane it shows her in a bad light. Showing that Telltale was looking to give you a chance of seeing how you decide who was in the right in that moment during the fight.
I think none of this matters because Kenny started the fight and I thought it was very obvious that nothing but Jane's death would satisfy him. Once again assuming shit and acting on it like the stubborn bull he's always been.
As Clementine, I kept Kenny because I knew he would do anything to keep her safe as well as AJ. But even though I am a die hard Kenny fan, I think I might have shot Kenny as I was playing as Lee. But I wouldn't allow Jane to stay with me either after that.
Then why would you kill Kenny when Jane was trying to get him mad to get you to leave him. That was selfish and stupid and she deserved to die!
Kenny was the one who charged... Jane surely provoked him, but right from the start, she proved to Clem that Kenny doesnt want to talk. Kenny threw a punch at her right after he came back inside, without even letting her say a word, and assumed she had killed the baby. After that, Kenny was only focused on killing her without even knowing if his assumption was right. This is what Jane wanted Clementine to see in Kenny. Murderous old man, who doesnt want to get his facts straight before killing someone.
You were saying that Kenny should not have even jumped the gun on thinking that AJ was dead. I'm saying there wasn't really any logical reason to believe otherwise.
But then what else are you basing it on if not her in game emotions? She just said it felt weird killing a man she didn't know.
I guess you can speculate on that if you want, but there isn't actually anything solid to base that on. I'm personally not going to grasp at straws like that.
She put her knife away so they could start fighting??? What the hell? Jane doesnt seem like person who wants to fight with honor or any of that shit.
She saw that Kenny seemed to calm down, so she put her knife away, and then Kenny charged at her.
Jane was on ground when Kenny was charging at her, so she had to pull out her knife to protect herself. Do you think that a young woman could get someone like Kenny away from herself, if he started choking/punching her while she is on the ground?
Larry's death wasn't necessary. At least, not in that manner. He was still alive.
Murder vs accident. Please learn the difference. This is twice now where I've had to explain this. Kenny assumed Jane murdered AJ. Hence when he came back in and yelled "YOU KILLED HIM" and Jane says "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" where he loudly says "BULLSHIT" while she's saying it. Making it very clear he would not believe a word she said even if she tried to explain.
My Clementine did not assume Jane murdered the baby. I thought maybe it was an accident. With all teh zombies roaming around in this zombie apocalypse my assumption was that a zombie almost ate her and got the baby from her slipping on the ice OR ANY NUMBER OF possibilities instead of just jumping to MURDER!
I say Clem didn't assume that Jane murdered the baby and this the 2nd time where one of you guys have wondered why I thought the baby was alive. is the only possibility for AJ to die in these harsh conditions were murder?
WHAT WOULD HE THINK WHEN SHE DOESNT COME BACK WITH THE BABY! JANE WAS READY TO KILL KENNY TOO. SHE WANTED A FIGHT AND GOT ONE. THANK GOD KENNY KILLED HER but I do wish there was an option to shoot Jane by myself!
Jane did that because she wanted to take care of Clementine, and she knew that Kenny and she would go seperate ways. She needed to get Clem join her, since she thought that Kenny would just turn into Carver 2.0 and she didnt want Clem to be around Kenny when that would happen.
"It feels wrong... Killing someone who never wronged me.
I thought it was clear. Look at how Troy was. He was downright GIDDY at the idea of beating Sarah.
And if he wasn't? Who was gonna stop a giant walker in a small room without weapons?
I read somewhere that people turn faster the angrier they are before death. It was why Shane turned so quickly.
Well she said "He's..." while almost crying (acting ofc).
After that Kenny went outside and immediately tried to punch her the second he came back in, before she even said a word.
Even after slashing Kenny, Jane was ready to end the fight if Kenny would leave.
There is no other logical conclusion to come to. You act like Jane was trying to not have a fight or something. Her whole plan was to have a fight with Kenny. She intentionally tried to push him to that point so she could prove a point to Clem.
Putting her knife away at that point with the intentions of avoiding a fight would obviously be counterproductive to everything she was doing. If Kenny did as she said and didn't come near her, and instead choose to be very calm and rational then everything she was trying to prove would have fallen completely on her head. She would have had to admit the sick agenda she was trying to pull, she would have had to admit that she abandoned AJ in the truck. You really think she was just going to give up on her plan at that point? She wanted Kenny to attack her, and he wasn't doing so while he had the knife out.
As I said above, that doesn't really make any sense.
What do you mean charging at her? You're exaggerating. She went for her knife immediately as he was getting himself off the ground. He took a step around and she immediately went for the kill.
She was the one who was intending to fight in the first place, she should have thought about this beforehand, unless you admit that she was willing to kill Kenny even before executing the plan itself.
Kenny wasn't choking her or pounding on her anyway. All he did was hold her to the wall like he did to Mike back in Episode Three.
Well watch it again, she was shocked (and i just realized that Kenny actually killed that last russian guy anyway with bullet to the head).
I know its just an assumption, but it was stated in the game that they have had sex, only thing we can debate about is if she did it willingly.
That was never stated anywhere.
Being a bully deserves getting your dick shot off and being fed to the walkers now? Even then, he was following orders, and he does save Clem from a walker once.
Actually shooting at people to kill them like the Russians were doing seems more threatening
So that means Troy raped her? Why would anyone just jump to that conclusion?
Doesn't necessarily mean "rape" but knowing Troy its not a stretch to imagine it. Like I said. He was giddy at the prospect of beating a girl. And he hated that whole group. Carver was an evil bastard and a hardass but Troy was clearly a vindictive asshole who enjoyed other people's misery.
You should really watch the fight scene before you debate about it.
She saw that Kenny calmed down and she put her knife away, thinking that Kenny would not fight (well ofc theres that possibility that she was just trying to provoke kenny, but i think thats pretty far-fetched.)
She was on the ground and Kenny was charging at her and could have just pinned her to ground and choke/punch her to death. She realized that she was in bad position and took out her knife and slashed kenny.
But you didn't say just 'Kenny killing Larry is justifiable', you said it is 'necessary'.
We know Larry wasn't dead. Therefore it wasn't 'necessary'.
"it is implied that possibly she, and Troy had made an agreement that the two would help each other to escape from the 'pen' of the community, through some sexual deals that she offered."
And troy said before dying "Man, you smell really bad. You gotta take a bath before we...(dick shot) play monopoly?"
So its pretty obvious she was having sex with troy in one way or another.
No, you don't know for sure if he was alive. It was necessary to do what Kenny did. They couldn't take any chances, because if he really was dead, everyone in that room was going to go as well.
Your second sentence is just justifying what he did which I've already said is fine.
But it WASN'T necessary.
Yes, we do know for sure he was dead. Otherwise the evidence of the situation makes no sense.
How do we know that for sure? I know he supposedly started to move at the very last second or whatever, but that really doesn't tell us whether he reanimated or somehow miraculously was revived.
My Lee was morally righteous, and definitely had Kenny on his side. My Lee would not have shot Kenny because he would have understood what Kenny was going through, and he would understand that Jane was the one who escalated the fight. Realistically Lee wouldn't have shot either of the two. He likely would have been able to separate them.
There is no 'supposedly'. He does. Check it out if you wish.
If you push 4 times on his chest, he breathes.
And no, it can't be him reanimating. He only breathes if you push on his chest 4 times. If the exact same amount of time passes without you pressing on his chest, he doesn't breathe.
Reanimation is not speeded up by pushing on someone's chest. Therefore, he was perfectly revivable.
Now, he probably would have died after being revived. Maybe he would only have about ten minutes left. But that would have saved Lilly a hell of a lot of emotional trauma by being able to say goodbye etc.
Lee wasn't just a complete reflection of who the player was though. He did have a somewhat set personality. We can see that in the dream sequence. I don't think Lee would even be given the option to shoot one or the other, he would just separate them. Heck, he would have prevented Kenny from taking Jane's bait in the first place.
I know that's kind of an aside to what you were saying there, just thought I would add on anyway.
You're trying to tell me what happened in the scene when there is no proof of what you are saying, and there is zero logic that backs it up. Meanwhille you're 100% ignoring the perfectly logical reasoning I gave you for why Jane put away the knife. Why is that? Like I said, Jane putting the knife away with intentions to avoid a fight makes literally no sense. Its a contradiction to her actual plan. Everything would have failed if the issue was settled peacefully and rationally. She would be in a terrible situation with then having to admit what she tried to do.
Jane was on the ground, but like I said, she had already drawn her knife even before Kenny had already gotten up. Kenny never charged at her at this point. He just got up and turned around towards her.
Key phrase: "Could have". There was no indication that Kenny was trying to kill her.
She realized she was potentially in a bad spot in a fight that she was asking for so that makes it okay for her to just decide shes going to kill the man? And if it was really only about defending herself in that spot, why did she continue to hack and slash at Kenny even after he had disengaged from the fight? Jane simply wanted to kill him.
Do we actually know this is him taking a breath though..? Was this ever confirmed anywhere? Because its honestly impossible to tell.
Technically walkers breathe in sense... don't they? How else do they make noises? I still don't think there is proof of either way.
I know it isn't, but if the guy was dead he was dead, even if reviving him was a slight possibility. Pushing on his chest wouldn't have necessarily done anything to prevent him from turning either, for all we know.
So she putting the knife away, and telling to not come near her, is her way to invite Kenny into a fight?
And you can look over and over again this scene, where she is on ground and as soon as Kenny sees that, he is charging at her and most likely would have pinned her to the ground, if the knife wouldnt have stopped him.
Yes. There isn't another explanation that makes sense... for reasons I have already explained.
That isn't charging someone... he just got up off the ground and maybe took a step towards her. He didn't try and jump on her. He stood completely upright before getting slashed, though its kind of hard to see in your GIF because its sped up. It just really seems like you're exaggerating a bit.
It honestly doesn't really matter either way I guess, not sure why we're even debating whether he "charged" her or not. Again, Jane wanted that fight. So basically she goaded him into a fight, and was willing to kill him if it came to that. But somehow we're going to blame this on Kenny?
"And if it was really only about defending herself in that spot, why did she continue to hack and slash at Kenny even after he had disengaged from the fight? Jane simply wanted to kill him."
You've ignored the key pieces of my argument.
The same time elapses if you don't push on his chest. The exact same time.
He breathes ONLY if you push on his chest four times within the allotted time limit.
If zombification isn't sped up by pushing, then he can't have been reanimating as he doesn't do that if you don't push on his chest.
Let's say zombification takes 10 seconds. And the time limit in the game is 11 seconds.
If that were the case, for it to have been zombification, no matter WHAT you do in terms of CPR, Larry would have taken that 'breath'. But that doesn't happen.
What could it POSSIBLY be other than breathing, considering it certainly isn't zombification?
A walker opening it's mouth to bite your face.
Was just about to say this, took the words directly out of my mou...computer.
I've just stated how it definitely can't be that. Please don't make me repeat my argument.
TRUTH! To Jewfreeus btw.
Didn't mean to ignore what you were saying, I just didn't understand what you were getting at. That's a fair point actually.
Edit:
Actually, in the case that you side with Kenny, aren't you too busy pulling Lilly away to even notice Larry anyway? You never get the same view that you do if you decided to help Lilly with CPR.