1) In season 1, Kenny was able to "Willfully Murder" Larry, who was evidently going to SURVIVE. (Literally, Kenny's first instinct was "Willful Murder").
Nope. He is all 'I am sorry Lily, but you know this has to be done' because he was worried about having to fight walker Larry with no weapons. That is hardly willful murder. That Larry was 'evidently going to survive' is only what you think. What if moving its lips didn´t mean he was taking a breath, but reanimating as a walker? Either way, Kenny doesn´t have the luxury we have as players, so judging him for killing Larry and doing the hard thing is pretty illogical, considering that Larry could reanimate in any second and that they were trapped in a small room, weaponless.
2) In season 1, Kenny would literally let everyone die a slow painful death unless you did exactly what he wanted. (As Lee soon came to find out, in the event that he didn't agree with Kenny 100%).
Everyone, you say? That´s overblow and you know it. Is not about agreeing with him 100%, but him feeling torn and distrustful of Lee, plus his own guilt, for doing the right think and kill Larry withouth support. Besides, that doesn´t last long.
"We are going to get that little girl back, with or without on you, and you know it."
You seem to forget about this part.
3) When Clem falls through the ice... Who's there to help her? (JANE was) -Meanwhile, Kenny is going BERSERK trying to kill some handicapped Russian kid, all the while willfully neglecting Clem.
Yes, Jane helped her. Big fucking dealt. Do you realize she was the closest to Clem, he was and the other side, and that him stepping back on the ice could just make things more dangerous? Also, he doesn´t hit Arvo even once on this this scene.
4) After Clem falls through the ice and is potentially DYING from hypothermia... Who's there to help her? (JANE was) -Meanwhile, Kenny is going BERSERK and nearly torturing some handicapped Russian kid, all the while willfully neglecting Clem.
Arvo had just caused the death of Luke and he thought they all got this far for nothing, so he got mad. Big dealt. That’s far for ‘willfully’ neglecting her, and still doesn´t justify what Jane did. Also, nearly torturing Arvo is just an exaggeration. Kenny punched him twice, and Kenny stops if you just ask him, so that’s far for BERSERK.
5) Kenny is again willing to "Willfully Murder" Jane, where there's no scientific evidence showing Jane would have actually "went all the way" and murdered Kenny.
Jane slashed Kenny´s stomach. That Jane didn´t hit Kenny in a more important place, spilling his intestines, is just dumb luck. Also, you seem to forget that Jane made that plan so she could kill Kenny.
6) Kenny is statistically dangerous, and is always agitating the group. (This isn't really scientific, but we could all agree Kenny had a personality disorder that's detrimental to overall harmony and group ecology).
That´s only in No Going Back, and by that point he has lost an eye, loss Sarita and to survive with the people that indirectly caused the situation in the first place. And it still doesn´t justify what Jane did.
7) Kenny was irrational with the death of Sarita, and was on the verge of attacking / "Willfully Murdering" Clem.
I am sorry, but whatever choice you pick, Clem´s is responsible for the death of Sarita. If you cut off her arm, she just had the bright idea to cut off a person´s arm in the middle of walker herd, like she didn´t expect Sarita to scream while even Lee screamed and passed out if you chose to cut off its arm, dragging the walkers attention to her and getting her dragged into the ground and bitten. If you don´t cut off her arm, them Clem is responsible because the infection spreads far enough for Sarita to be unsalvageable, and she doesn´t even think of explaining and cutting her arm once they are not surrounded by walkers. Also, Kenny just lost his wife, what did you expect? But still, saying that because he shouts at her he is 'on the verge of attacking / "Willfully Murdering" Clem' is just you being stupid. He could rather die that hit Clem, and murdering her is impossible for him.
8) At the end of season 2, when Clem is forced to defend Jane, Kenny actually admits to Clem, "You did the right thing". (What more evidence do you need that Kenny is irrational, erratic, dangerous, and the statistically poor choice?)
Because that ending doesn´t hold any weight. He just got shot by Clem, the person he was trying to protect all season, and he thinks AJ is dead so it can be interpreted as him losing its will to live or someone who says that so Clem does not have to live with her guilt.
9) More evidence directly from Kenny when he admits that he can't be "Trusted" to protect AJ and Clem at the end of season 2.
He says that he does not trust himself to protect AJ and Clem, nor that he can´t be trusted. There is a difference. And there is pretty of proof all through the season that Kenny can definitively protect both of them.
10) Jane actually saved the entire group during the Russian attack, meanwhile Kenny was going "Berserk" yet again and arguably was "dead set" on "Willfully murdering" an innocent child. (Arvo).
Jane didn´t save anybody. Kenny handled the only part on the gunfight we are actually show, while Mike gets shoot in the shoulder, Luke gets shoot in the leg and everybody else did not do anything. That Kenny was on the ground when the Russian dude came out to kill him and Jane killed him instead doesn´t mean anything. Clem has a clear sight of the Russian, and she is quick enough to kill him before he kills Kenny even if Jane didn´t appeared, especially because the Russian wasted time mouthing off instead of shooting him. He was not 'Berserk and death set on murdering an innocent child', he was taking a hostage for the sake of the ground.
I would love to see what Kenny defenders would have picked if given the choice between...a)leave Lilly b)take Lilly c)beat the s**t out of Lilly so Clem will remember that.....When Lilly killed Carly/Doug
Nope, but it's pretty much common sense that if you have a heart attack and you aren't being taken care of properly or by someone who knows a lot about health (a doctor) the odds of you surviving are slim to none.
Absolutely not lol.
That being said, I'm not a judge, juror or executioner.
So why would I sentence poor Larry to death when he needs my help the most?
Why would Kenny?
No this can be settled right now. It's nowhere close to scientific proof. These are your subjective arguments from your own perspective.
I will not debate whether Kenny is better than Jane or vice versa simply because I don't feel the need to. There are positive and negative traits in both characters and various points can be made for both sides. I have nothing against you argumenting for one side or the other, just please don't call your points scientific.
We could debate all day whether or not my observations followed scientific process.
Albeit, I'm confident that you will find Kenny's (sho… morecking) actions to speak louder than my original hypothesis.
(Which was that Kenny was statistically dangerous).
No this can be settled right now. It's nowhere close to scientific proof. These are your subjective arguments from your own perspective.
… moreI will not debate whether Kenny is better than Jane or vice versa simply because I don't feel the need to. There are positive and negative traits in both characters and various points can be made for both sides. I have nothing against you argumenting for one side or the other, just please don't call your points scientific.
but there is still a difference between Kenny's violent Loyalty and Janes (YOLO) tactics. Kenny thinks for the group while in my opinion Jane tared the group apart
You dont need to be a Doctor to know that there is a very slim chance of restarting a heart using only CPR (3% as another person pointed out. And thats on a healthy heart). Regaining consciousness immediately after is even more miniscule. There was a better chance of Jesus coming down from the heavens and freeing us then Larry surviving.
That being said, and regardless of any conjecture, we really can't change the facts (on record) that:
1) Kenny agreed that Clem made the right decision, when she shot him. (Even Kenny realizes he was a "live wire" leaving the group in incessant jeopardy).
2) Kenny willfully murdered Larry, and caused several others to die as a direct result of his actions, or failure to act.
3) Clem could have drown, been ripped to shreds, and died from hypothermia as a result of Kenny's wanton fanaticism.
4) Instead of helping Clem, Kenny was "blinded by hatred" and nearly torturing a helpless child in Arvo.
5) Kenny endangered others, frequently enraged, and was verbally threatening. (Like it or not, Kenny was obstructing group harmony and endangering others on an ongoing basis, and everyone else knows about it).
6) Kenny stated that he can't be "trusted", thereby acknowledging he was egregious to the group and ultimately the survival of others.
1) In season 1, Kenny was able to "Willfully Murder" Larry, who was evidently going to SURVIVE. (Literally, Kenny's first instinct was "Will… moreful Murder").
Nope. He is all 'I am sorry Lily, but you know this has to be done' because he was worried about having to fight walker Larry with no weapons. That is hardly willful murder. That Larry was 'evidently going to survive' is only what you think. What if moving its lips didn´t mean he was taking a breath, but reanimating as a walker? Either way, Kenny doesn´t have the luxury we have as players, so judging him for killing Larry and doing the hard thing is pretty illogical, considering that Larry could reanimate in any second and that they were trapped in a small room, weaponless.
2) In season 1, Kenny would literally let everyone die a slow painful death unless you did exactly what he wanted. (As Lee soon came to find out, in the event that he didn't agree with Kenny 100%).
E… [view original content]
I do so wish Kenny had stayed out of this season. Imagine what the debates would be like if the two characters were on equal footing without the nostalgia factor.
Considering how well these threads always go (get it, becuase that was a joke and threads like these never go well - haha), I'm just going to lock this.
Comments
Nope. He is all 'I am sorry Lily, but you know this has to be done' because he was worried about having to fight walker Larry with no weapons. That is hardly willful murder. That Larry was 'evidently going to survive' is only what you think. What if moving its lips didn´t mean he was taking a breath, but reanimating as a walker? Either way, Kenny doesn´t have the luxury we have as players, so judging him for killing Larry and doing the hard thing is pretty illogical, considering that Larry could reanimate in any second and that they were trapped in a small room, weaponless.
Everyone, you say? That´s overblow and you know it. Is not about agreeing with him 100%, but him feeling torn and distrustful of Lee, plus his own guilt, for doing the right think and kill Larry withouth support. Besides, that doesn´t last long.
"We are going to get that little girl back, with or without on you, and you know it."
You seem to forget about this part.
Yes, Jane helped her. Big fucking dealt. Do you realize she was the closest to Clem, he was and the other side, and that him stepping back on the ice could just make things more dangerous? Also, he doesn´t hit Arvo even once on this this scene.
Arvo had just caused the death of Luke and he thought they all got this far for nothing, so he got mad. Big dealt. That’s far for ‘willfully’ neglecting her, and still doesn´t justify what Jane did. Also, nearly torturing Arvo is just an exaggeration. Kenny punched him twice, and Kenny stops if you just ask him, so that’s far for BERSERK.
Jane slashed Kenny´s stomach. That Jane didn´t hit Kenny in a more important place, spilling his intestines, is just dumb luck. Also, you seem to forget that Jane made that plan so she could kill Kenny.
That´s only in No Going Back, and by that point he has lost an eye, loss Sarita and to survive with the people that indirectly caused the situation in the first place. And it still doesn´t justify what Jane did.
I am sorry, but whatever choice you pick, Clem´s is responsible for the death of Sarita. If you cut off her arm, she just had the bright idea to cut off a person´s arm in the middle of walker herd, like she didn´t expect Sarita to scream while even Lee screamed and passed out if you chose to cut off its arm, dragging the walkers attention to her and getting her dragged into the ground and bitten. If you don´t cut off her arm, them Clem is responsible because the infection spreads far enough for Sarita to be unsalvageable, and she doesn´t even think of explaining and cutting her arm once they are not surrounded by walkers. Also, Kenny just lost his wife, what did you expect? But still, saying that because he shouts at her he is 'on the verge of attacking / "Willfully Murdering" Clem' is just you being stupid. He could rather die that hit Clem, and murdering her is impossible for him.
Because that ending doesn´t hold any weight. He just got shot by Clem, the person he was trying to protect all season, and he thinks AJ is dead so it can be interpreted as him losing its will to live or someone who says that so Clem does not have to live with her guilt.
He says that he does not trust himself to protect AJ and Clem, nor that he can´t be trusted. There is a difference. And there is pretty of proof all through the season that Kenny can definitively protect both of them.
Jane didn´t save anybody. Kenny handled the only part on the gunfight we are actually show, while Mike gets shoot in the shoulder, Luke gets shoot in the leg and everybody else did not do anything. That Kenny was on the ground when the Russian dude came out to kill him and Jane killed him instead doesn´t mean anything. Clem has a clear sight of the Russian, and she is quick enough to kill him before he kills Kenny even if Jane didn´t appeared, especially because the Russian wasted time mouthing off instead of shooting him. He was not 'Berserk and death set on murdering an innocent child', he was taking a hostage for the sake of the ground.
This is not even a reason, so grow up.
Read your first point and didn't read anymore, scientifically there was pretty much no chance Larry was going to survive.
Are you a Doctor?
We could debate all day whether or not my observations followed scientific process.
Albeit, I'm confident that you will find Kenny's (shocking) actions to speak louder than my original hypothesis.
(Which was that Kenny was statistically dangerous).
Are you?
As a Jane fan I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. We need to stop this before the forums implode from all the pointless arguing!
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I would love to see what Kenny defenders would have picked if given the choice between...a)leave Lilly b)take Lilly c)beat the s**t out of Lilly so Clem will remember that.....When Lilly killed Carly/Doug
Absolutely not lol.
That being said, I'm not a judge, juror or executioner.
So why would I sentence poor Larry to death when he needs my help the most?
Why would Kenny?
Nope, but it's pretty much common sense that if you have a heart attack and you aren't being taken care of properly or by someone who knows a lot about health (a doctor) the odds of you surviving are slim to none.
great bait mate iate rate eight/eight?
Funny how its pointing to Kenny xD
Then how can you say Larry was going to survive definitively?
As for the rest of your post, I already gave my reasons so read them.
No this can be settled right now. It's nowhere close to scientific proof. These are your subjective arguments from your own perspective.
I will not debate whether Kenny is better than Jane or vice versa simply because I don't feel the need to. There are positive and negative traits in both characters and various points can be made for both sides. I have nothing against you argumenting for one side or the other, just please don't call your points scientific.
Typical Kennyfan generalizing all Janefans
No wait thats not right. I know there are cool Kenny fans.
well it is scientific ... to himself
You're right. All we need to do is find another scapegoat that we all can agree on!
Your gif is on the right track. I'd vote for Arvo... or Cristiano Ronaldo.
He's been doing experiments in his mom's basement all week :P
absolutely !
The only scientific point is point 11.
People left the group because of Kenny. I think he tore it apart.
haha, good one
You dont need to be a Doctor to know that there is a very slim chance of restarting a heart using only CPR (3% as another person pointed out. And thats on a healthy heart). Regaining consciousness immediately after is even more miniscule. There was a better chance of Jesus coming down from the heavens and freeing us then Larry surviving.
Funny how it's "scientific"
I truly appreciate your complimentary regard. :]
That being said, and regardless of any conjecture, we really can't change the facts (on record) that:
1) Kenny agreed that Clem made the right decision, when she shot him. (Even Kenny realizes he was a "live wire" leaving the group in incessant jeopardy).
2) Kenny willfully murdered Larry, and caused several others to die as a direct result of his actions, or failure to act.
3) Clem could have drown, been ripped to shreds, and died from hypothermia as a result of Kenny's wanton fanaticism.
4) Instead of helping Clem, Kenny was "blinded by hatred" and nearly torturing a helpless child in Arvo.
5) Kenny endangered others, frequently enraged, and was verbally threatening. (Like it or not, Kenny was obstructing group harmony and endangering others on an ongoing basis, and everyone else knows about it).
6) Kenny stated that he can't be "trusted", thereby acknowledging he was egregious to the group and ultimately the survival of others.
yeah this shit is not biased at all.
I do so wish Kenny had stayed out of this season. Imagine what the debates would be like if the two characters were on equal footing without the nostalgia factor.
Considering how well these threads always go (get it, becuase that was a joke and threads like these never go well - haha), I'm just going to lock this.
Don't mind me, folks. Nothing to see here.