Nate isn't racist, maybe a bit sexist, but not as a whole, BUT I do think he is a bit of a pedo, in the fact he never asks on how old the daughter was and just seemed more interested in wanting to know her "rack", though I still love Nate, easily one of the most interesting and fun characters in the series.
He was my favorite from 400 Days as well. It's good to know that not everyone judged Nate so harshly, because I don't see how him asking those things lead to those conclusion either. Nate in season 3:
Babies have plenty of personality. My ten month old niece is already walking and trying to talk. She is extremely cognizant of everything and runs around like a little dynamo. Im not saying that they could do all that with a little cartoon toddler but I dont expect AJ to be the star of the game. I don't however believe he should be kept completely out of it. I would like to see how he's getting on.
Well that's kind of my concern. I also suspect that they kept the baby around for a reason and my fear is that they're trying to emulate the… more same guardian-type relationship we had with Lee and Clem. But the problem is that that relationship doesn't work unless the player develops an emotional connection to the person he or she is tasked with protecting. Having S2 be his origin story just isn't enough. There has to be something intrinsic to the character. Clem was very carefully crafted to make her into someone that pretty much everyone wants to protect. It wasn't just that "Well, I have to save the kid." It was "Man, that kid is awesome, I want to make sure she's alright." I don't see how they would be able to pull that off until AJ is at least 5 years old, which is very unlikely to happen for Season 3.
I don't see a baby or toddler surviving a ZA, unless they were in a safe place like Wellington. Babies cry often, which would give away someone's position if they were out. Has to be fed formula, or nursed, unless you want him to grow up with developmental delays. Not to mention young children can't run very fast.
Nate doesn't ask how old she is because Russell implies that he really liked this girl, and Russell is around 19-20 years old(he's in college). Nate probably figured she was Russell's age, therefore not a prepubescent girl.
Nate isn't racist, maybe a bit sexist, but not as a whole, BUT I do think he is a bit of a pedo, in the fact he never asks on how old the da… moreughter was and just seemed more interested in wanting to know her "rack", though I still love Nate, easily one of the most interesting and fun characters in the series.
This is why I was holding out for characters like Sarah and Nick to become a larger focus (i.e. still helping someone who's struggling, but learning about them and coming to trust them as individuals in the process). Protecting an infant is the same basic theme, but we can't learn about AJ as a person in the same way without resorting to a heavy time-skip.
I don't want to see Clementine abandon the baby or anything, but as far as the focal point for the next season goes, traveling with a newborn wasn't my first choice.
Thats actually a pretty cool scenario with AJ. One of my favorite parts from the comic was when this little kid kills his twin because he doesnt think its a big deal cuz he thinks his brother will just come back. I think its super interesting to have a look at how kids growing up in that environment would look at and be affected by life and death. I would love to see them do something like that with AJ.
You can get separated from him and spend some time trying to find the person that had him last.
He could be abducted by a crazy person an… mored you could spend some time trying to find him.
With even a 3 year skip, so he can walk, it could be interesting even if they aren't separated. The way that very young children behave can get them into a lot of trouble. You could see Clem as a young teen playing the protector roll that Lee played for her, only the dynamics would be different and interesting. Adults could try to basically take protective custody and the story could show that Clem really "does" know how to take care of him better in some ways (like staying alive) and maybe not in other ways.
Imagine if Clem and AJ see a survivor get eaten (AJ at around age 3). Clem kills the walker that got the survivor, then looks away sad. AJ walks up and says "She dead?" and points at the dead survivor.
"Yes AJ. She's dead." says Clem.
"Aha… [view original content]
Agree. I was hoping for the exact same thing since my Clem promised to take care of them both. Especially Sarah. ;_;
But if they insist on having AJ with us for S3, then I hope they do as big of a timeskip as they can. Traveling with a toddler is at least more interesting then a newborn baby. At least then AJ will have some kind of personality and wont be the equivalent of us lugging around a loud sack of potatoes.
This is why I was holding out for characters like Sarah and Nick to become a larger focus (i.e. still helping someone who's struggling, but … morelearning about them and coming to trust them as individuals in the process). Protecting an infant is the same basic theme, but we can't learn about AJ as a person in the same way without resorting to a heavy time-skip.
I don't want to see Clementine abandon the baby or anything, but as far as the focal point for the next season goes, traveling with a newborn wasn't my first choice.
Even George RR Martin's writing isn't free from plot armor. For instance, there's no way in hell he's going to be killing off Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Danaerys, or Jon Snow until they do something of significance that reflects the prophecies foretold about them. The main deaths in Game of Thrones that people get into an uproar about are characters who are somewhat important in that they were popular or received a lot of attention in the narrative but that's not where plot armor comes from. Plot armor comes from the expectations placed on a character by the themes and foreshadowing in the story.
I've grown really weary of the term "plot armour", just because George R.R. Martin made it fashionable to slaughter characters willy-nilly. … moreIf Telltale chose to spontaneously murder Clementine in episode 3 and shift the PC status to (let's say) Luke, it would stir more in the way of anger and plummeting sales than controversy.
Lee had plot armour. His "time" only came when it had the most impact for the player. But I'm sure the GAME OF THRONES enthusiasts would still argue Lily should have put that bullet into Lee instead of Doug/Carley. This is another reason why I can't get too enthusiastic about that GoT video game Telltale is going to be producing soon.
Well that level of personality would be equivalent to, say, Duck, who was largely ignored or used as comic relief by the narrative until he was bitten. And for good reason. That's not an interesting character to play off of. Then there's always the risk of running into "Carl, stay in the house" syndrome.
Babies have plenty of personality. My ten month old niece is already walking and trying to talk. She is extremely cognizant of everything an… mored runs around like a little dynamo. Im not saying that they could do all that with a little cartoon toddler but I dont expect AJ to be the star of the game. I don't however believe he should be kept completely out of it. I would like to see how he's getting on.
Yeah like Robb and Oberyn... People dont like it cause there popular but really like any series you can see which charcaters are safe for at least a while.
Thats not plot armour thats just making a good story. Only time I get annoyed at charcaters having armour is people like Daryl who are only really kept around for fan service, Kenny had a simaler problem this season, he more or less went through the same stuff again.
Even George RR Martin's writing isn't free from plot armor. For instance, there's no way in hell he's going to be killing off Tyrion, Arya, … moreBran, Danaerys, or Jon Snow until they do something of significance that reflects the prophecies foretold about them. The main deaths in Game of Thrones that people get into an uproar about are characters who are somewhat important in that they were popular or received a lot of attention in the narrative but that's not where plot armor comes from. Plot armor comes from the expectations placed on a character by the themes and foreshadowing in the story.
I think there's a good chance we'll see Clementine in some capacity in season 3, though whether or not as the protagonist/playable character is anyone's guess. I can sort of see how they can resolve the issues of the 5 endings, but I'm not exactly sure how feasible it would be with Telltale's budget and resources. And a time-skip might be necessary to set the events in place to tell one story due to the various ending outcomes. If they do a time-skip however, the highest they could do is two years I think, since that would match the comic's timeline, but they wouldn't necessarily need to go that high.
I'm pretty confident that season 3 won't revolve around Clem tbh. If they planned to have Clem be the protagonist, they wouldn't have given … moreso many different, possible endings. It would be too difficult to create a story that is canon with all the possible endings without doing a timeskip. And I really don't want another timeskip, that's just lazy to me.
If they're planning on making the Clem/AJ relationship a lazy do-over of the Lee/Clem dynamic then that's stupid and it won't work.
I cared about Clementine because she had a personality. I don't intrinsically care about baby. Baby has no personality. Baby is a noisy poop-machine. Baby is a liability that cannot walk, let alone provide funny dialogue. Please dispose of baby's role in future narrative so we can party with Nate at gram's house, thank you.
Well, I think it would be interesting to have a character like that, so I disagree but again, I don't expect the baby to be the focus of the story, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be in it at all. It's all right to have characters that are just there the way people would be in real life.
Well that level of personality would be equivalent to, say, Duck, who was largely ignored or used as comic relief by the narrative until he … morewas bitten. And for good reason. That's not an interesting character to play off of. Then there's always the risk of running into "Carl, stay in the house" syndrome.
Nate doesn't ask how old she is because Russell implies that he really liked this girl, and Russell is around 19-20 years old(he's in college). Nate probably figured she was Russell's age, therefore not a prepubescent girl.
I care for poop-machine as poop-machine is beacon of hope. He is the second coming of Duck. When he has reached an appropriate age, our Lord Kenny will bestow upon him the power of Kenneth. With these powers, we shall be liberated from these Hell stricken lands, and gather upon the Holy Boat.
If they're planning on making the Clem/AJ relationship a lazy do-over of the Lee/Clem dynamic then that's stupid and it won't work.
I car… moreed about Clementine because she had a personality. I don't intrinsically care about baby. Baby has no personality. Baby is a noisy poop-machine. Baby is a liability that cannot walk, let alone provide funny dialogue. Please dispose of baby's role in future narrative so we can party with Nate at gram's house, thank you.
You see, the thing about stories, is that you can always direct death away from people you don't want dead until you want them to die. It has to make sense, but you can always make it make sense. Plot armor is when people point a lot of guns at a character, all shoot at the same time, and maybe three bullets will hit her, but two will go straight through and the remaining one will hospitalize her. It's when things happen that should have a surefire chance of killing someone, but don't go beyond fatally injuring them.
Getting bit would normally be called "dropping a train" on them, but it's too drawn-out and provokes too many opinions about what to do with the victim or what the victim wants for it to deserve that trope title. Suddenly getting eaten alive(Dale from AMC's) is, but we don't see any "suddenly eaten" moments in this game.
At this point, AJ is the only character in the game whose plot armor is thicker than Clementine's. Because at least Clementine's death can b… moree tragic and meaningful and poetic, especially if she sacrifices herself and goes out in a manner similar to Lee. There's nothing meaningful or poetic about a baby dying. It's just misery for the sake of misery.
I was under the impression that the term "plot armor" refers to any deflection of harm from a main character because of their role in the story, not just having them survive near-death experiences. And while AJ hasn't technically dodged any actual bullets (although the ones at the beginning of episode 5 were pretty close), his plot armor is well demonstrated by the fact that he and Clem inexplicably managed to survive for 9 days on 1 day's worth of formula. That's the kind of stuff Jewish holidays are made out of.
And there's gotta be a reason why they did this. You only get plot armor when the plot needs you alive to fulfill some purpose. In the case of AJ, that purpose seem to be to serve as the ray of hope for the main character, similar to Clem's role in Season 1. I don't see them getting rid of that any time soon.
That's not really what I was getting at.
You see, the thing about stories, is that you can always direct death away from people you don't… more want dead until you want them to die. It has to make sense, but you can always make it make sense. Plot armor is when people point a lot of guns at a character, all shoot at the same time, and maybe three bullets will hit her, but two will go straight through and the remaining one will hospitalize her. It's when things happen that should have a surefire chance of killing someone, but don't go beyond fatally injuring them.
Getting bit would normally be called "dropping a train" on them, but it's too drawn-out and provokes too many opinions about what to do with the victim or what the victim wants for it to deserve that trope title. Suddenly getting eaten alive(Dale from AMC's) is, but we don't see any "suddenly eaten" moments in this game.
Any deflection of harm that could seriously injure them or kill them, specifically. My example wasn't the best.
They made walker smoothies! But seriously, I think it's safe to assume that Clem found something adequate, even if she had to smoosh beans out of the can and put them into a cup. Could be AJ got by on broth from rabbit stew. I'm sure they'll come up with an explanation in S3.
You're probably right though, the baby will grow up. It's just as likely that they'll kill him off just for the sake of making Clem's life more miserable.
I was under the impression that the term "plot armor" refers to any deflection of harm from a main character because of their role in the st… moreory, not just having them survive near-death experiences. And while AJ hasn't technically dodged any actual bullets (although the ones at the beginning of episode 5 were pretty close), his plot armor is well demonstrated by the fact that he and Clem inexplicably managed to survive for 9 days on 1 day's worth of formula. That's the kind of stuff Jewish holidays are made out of.
And there's gotta be a reason why they did this. You only get plot armor when the plot needs you alive to fulfill some purpose. In the case of AJ, that purpose seem to be to serve as the ray of hope for the main character, similar to Clem's role in Season 1. I don't see them getting rid of that any time soon.
I care for poop-machine as poop-machine is beacon of hope. He is the second coming of Duck. When he has reached an appropriate age, our Lord… more Kenny will bestow upon him the power of Kenneth. With these powers, we shall be liberated from these Hell stricken lands, and gather upon the Holy Boat.
I agree that is possible for them to include Clem in season 3, but I think her story as the main character/influence on the main storyline has run it's course. I believe that is why there were so many possible endings for season 2, so each person can have a satisfactory ending for their Clem, but also leaving it open ended so they didn't have to kill her off. It's plausible that TTG will do another timeskip, but I hope they don't. One timeskip is enough imo.
I think there's a good chance we'll see Clementine in some capacity in season 3, though whether or not as the protagonist/playable character… more is anyone's guess. I can sort of see how they can resolve the issues of the 5 endings, but I'm not exactly sure how feasible it would be with Telltale's budget and resources. And a time-skip might be necessary to set the events in place to tell one story due to the various ending outcomes. If they do a time-skip however, the highest they could do is two years I think, since that would match the comic's timeline, but they wouldn't necessarily need to go that high.
True. With the different endings it would be hard to continue Clementine's story. If they do decide to continue it though, I could see them pulling a Dragon Age Origins. In that game, they were 6 different opening prologues that were about forty five minutes to an hour long (depending on how fast you sped through them). Eventually, all 6 prologues converged into one route to tell one story. I could somewhat see Telltale doing something like that but to a lesser extent (Like a 10 or 15 minute prologue based on your ending), but I don't know if they would have the budget and resources to really pull it off. They're nowhere near as big as Bioware/EA so they most likely have even less resources and work time to pull it off.
I agree that is possible for them to include Clem in season 3, but I think her story as the main character/influence on the main storyline h… moreas run it's course. I believe that is why there were so many possible endings for season 2, so each person can have a satisfactory ending for their Clem, but also leaving it open ended so they didn't have to kill her off. It's plausible that TTG will do another timeskip, but I hope they don't. One timeskip is enough imo.
I can see that as a possibility, and I wouldn't mind it either. But seeing as TTG has already cut their episodes short, as well as working on several other games in the process, it's difficult to accurately speculate what they plan to do for season 3. With the majority of TTG staff allocating their time and energy among so many projects, I'm more inclined to believe they'd just move on to another protagonist, with possible cameos from Clem.
True. With the different endings it would be hard to continue Clementine's story. If they do decide to continue it though, I could see them … morepulling a Dragon Age Origins. In that game, they were 6 different opening prologues that were about forty five minutes to an hour long (depending on how fast you sped through them). Eventually, all 6 prologues converged into one route to tell one story. I could somewhat see Telltale doing something like that but to a lesser extent (Like a 10 or 15 minute prologue based on your ending), but I don't know if they would have the budget and resources to really pull it off. They're nowhere near as big as Bioware/EA so they most likely have even less resources and work time to pull it off.
I can see that as a possibility, and I wouldn't mind it either. But seeing as TTG has already cut their episodes short, as well as working o… moren several other games in the process, it's difficult to accurately speculate what they plan to do for season 3. With the majority of TTG staff allocating their time and energy among so many projects, I'm more inclined to believe they'd just move on to another protagonist, with possible cameos from Clem.
Comments
Nate isn't racist, maybe a bit sexist, but not as a whole, BUT I do think he is a bit of a pedo, in the fact he never asks on how old the daughter was and just seemed more interested in wanting to know her "rack", though I still love Nate, easily one of the most interesting and fun characters in the series.
Babies have plenty of personality. My ten month old niece is already walking and trying to talk. She is extremely cognizant of everything and runs around like a little dynamo. Im not saying that they could do all that with a little cartoon toddler but I dont expect AJ to be the star of the game. I don't however believe he should be kept completely out of it. I would like to see how he's getting on.
Isnt it instinct to want to protect a baby? Heck, I thought that was basic human nature until I came here.
I don't see a baby or toddler surviving a ZA, unless they were in a safe place like Wellington. Babies cry often, which would give away someone's position if they were out. Has to be fed formula, or nursed, unless you want him to grow up with developmental delays. Not to mention young children can't run very fast.
Nate doesn't ask how old she is because Russell implies that he really liked this girl, and Russell is around 19-20 years old(he's in college). Nate probably figured she was Russell's age, therefore not a prepubescent girl.
This is why I was holding out for characters like Sarah and Nick to become a larger focus (i.e. still helping someone who's struggling, but learning about them and coming to trust them as individuals in the process). Protecting an infant is the same basic theme, but we can't learn about AJ as a person in the same way without resorting to a heavy time-skip.
I don't want to see Clementine abandon the baby or anything, but as far as the focal point for the next season goes, traveling with a newborn wasn't my first choice.
This post has a spoiler for the comic
Thats actually a pretty cool scenario with AJ. One of my favorite parts from the comic was when this little kid kills his twin because he doesnt think its a big deal cuz he thinks his brother will just come back. I think its super interesting to have a look at how kids growing up in that environment would look at and be affected by life and death. I would love to see them do something like that with AJ.
Agree. I was hoping for the exact same thing since my Clem promised to take care of them both. Especially Sarah. ;_;
But if they insist on having AJ with us for S3, then I hope they do as big of a timeskip as they can. Traveling with a toddler is at least more interesting then a newborn baby. At least then AJ will have some kind of personality and wont be the equivalent of us lugging around a loud sack of potatoes.
Even George RR Martin's writing isn't free from plot armor. For instance, there's no way in hell he's going to be killing off Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Danaerys, or Jon Snow until they do something of significance that reflects the prophecies foretold about them. The main deaths in Game of Thrones that people get into an uproar about are characters who are somewhat important in that they were popular or received a lot of attention in the narrative but that's not where plot armor comes from. Plot armor comes from the expectations placed on a character by the themes and foreshadowing in the story.
Well that level of personality would be equivalent to, say, Duck, who was largely ignored or used as comic relief by the narrative until he was bitten. And for good reason. That's not an interesting character to play off of. Then there's always the risk of running into "Carl, stay in the house" syndrome.
Yeah like Robb and Oberyn... People dont like it cause there popular but really like any series you can see which charcaters are safe for at least a while.
Thats not plot armour thats just making a good story. Only time I get annoyed at charcaters having armour is people like Daryl who are only really kept around for fan service, Kenny had a simaler problem this season, he more or less went through the same stuff again.
I think there's a good chance we'll see Clementine in some capacity in season 3, though whether or not as the protagonist/playable character is anyone's guess. I can sort of see how they can resolve the issues of the 5 endings, but I'm not exactly sure how feasible it would be with Telltale's budget and resources. And a time-skip might be necessary to set the events in place to tell one story due to the various ending outcomes. If they do a time-skip however, the highest they could do is two years I think, since that would match the comic's timeline, but they wouldn't necessarily need to go that high.
If they're planning on making the Clem/AJ relationship a lazy do-over of the Lee/Clem dynamic then that's stupid and it won't work.
I cared about Clementine because she had a personality. I don't intrinsically care about baby. Baby has no personality. Baby is a noisy poop-machine. Baby is a liability that cannot walk, let alone provide funny dialogue. Please dispose of baby's role in future narrative so we can party with Nate at gram's house, thank you.
Well, I think it would be interesting to have a character like that, so I disagree but again, I don't expect the baby to be the focus of the story, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be in it at all. It's all right to have characters that are just there the way people would be in real life.
Still though, I don't know if I would be 100% comfortable hanging out with a guy like Nate. I wouldn't be surprised if Nate turned out to be a rapist.
I care for poop-machine as poop-machine is beacon of hope. He is the second coming of Duck. When he has reached an appropriate age, our Lord Kenny will bestow upon him the power of Kenneth. With these powers, we shall be liberated from these Hell stricken lands, and gather upon the Holy Boat.
That's not really what I was getting at.
You see, the thing about stories, is that you can always direct death away from people you don't want dead until you want them to die. It has to make sense, but you can always make it make sense. Plot armor is when people point a lot of guns at a character, all shoot at the same time, and maybe three bullets will hit her, but two will go straight through and the remaining one will hospitalize her. It's when things happen that should have a surefire chance of killing someone, but don't go beyond fatally injuring them.
Getting bit would normally be called "dropping a train" on them, but it's too drawn-out and provokes too many opinions about what to do with the victim or what the victim wants for it to deserve that trope title. Suddenly getting eaten alive(Dale from AMC's) is, but we don't see any "suddenly eaten" moments in this game.
I was under the impression that the term "plot armor" refers to any deflection of harm from a main character because of their role in the story, not just having them survive near-death experiences. And while AJ hasn't technically dodged any actual bullets (although the ones at the beginning of episode 5 were pretty close), his plot armor is well demonstrated by the fact that he and Clem inexplicably managed to survive for 9 days on 1 day's worth of formula. That's the kind of stuff Jewish holidays are made out of.
And there's gotta be a reason why they did this. You only get plot armor when the plot needs you alive to fulfill some purpose. In the case of AJ, that purpose seem to be to serve as the ray of hope for the main character, similar to Clem's role in Season 1. I don't see them getting rid of that any time soon.
I want A.J though...
I wish Lee could raise him... guess Kenny will have to do since I left Wellington.
Any deflection of harm that could seriously injure them or kill them, specifically. My example wasn't the best.
They made walker smoothies! But seriously, I think it's safe to assume that Clem found something adequate, even if she had to smoosh beans out of the can and put them into a cup. Could be AJ got by on broth from rabbit stew. I'm sure they'll come up with an explanation in S3.
You're probably right though, the baby will grow up. It's just as likely that they'll kill him off just for the sake of making Clem's life more miserable.
What were we talkin' about??
THE SECOND ARK.
I agree that is possible for them to include Clem in season 3, but I think her story as the main character/influence on the main storyline has run it's course. I believe that is why there were so many possible endings for season 2, so each person can have a satisfactory ending for their Clem, but also leaving it open ended so they didn't have to kill her off. It's plausible that TTG will do another timeskip, but I hope they don't. One timeskip is enough imo.
True. With the different endings it would be hard to continue Clementine's story. If they do decide to continue it though, I could see them pulling a Dragon Age Origins. In that game, they were 6 different opening prologues that were about forty five minutes to an hour long (depending on how fast you sped through them). Eventually, all 6 prologues converged into one route to tell one story. I could somewhat see Telltale doing something like that but to a lesser extent (Like a 10 or 15 minute prologue based on your ending), but I don't know if they would have the budget and resources to really pull it off. They're nowhere near as big as Bioware/EA so they most likely have even less resources and work time to pull it off.
I can see that as a possibility, and I wouldn't mind it either. But seeing as TTG has already cut their episodes short, as well as working on several other games in the process, it's difficult to accurately speculate what they plan to do for season 3. With the majority of TTG staff allocating their time and energy among so many projects, I'm more inclined to believe they'd just move on to another protagonist, with possible cameos from Clem.
Yeah. I guess we just won't know until TTG sheds more news on TWD S3, which probably won't be until sometime next year.