Clementine's dream means
Hey!
Let's talk about Clementine's dream, she saw Lee in her dream. What did Lee say? What do you think is the meaning of this dream?
Remember what Lee said to Clementine in the dream:
Clementine: Lee?
Lee: Hmm?
Clementine: Why did Lilly do that to Carley?
Lee: I don't know. She was sad, Clem. That can make people angry sometimes.
Clementine: Have you ever been that angry?
Lee: One time. (Think about Lee's past - Lee was also convicted for murdering a state senator who had an affair with his wife, and was going to serve a life sentence before the police car crashed).
Clementine: ....
Lee: Clem, people don't always make sense.
Clementine: How come?
Lee: 'Cause bad things happen to everyone. And it's hard to keep bein' yourself after they do. Do you think we should've let Lilly stay?
Clementine: I don't know.
Lee: I don't either. I don't know if we did the right thing.
Clementine: How can you tell?
Lee: Well, it's not like math, Clem. Sometimes there just isn't a right answer.
Clementine: I hate math.
Lee: Me too, sweet pea. Yeah, but part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about... even if sometimes... that means hurting someone else.
Clementine: I don't want to hurt anyone.
Lee: It's not that easy.
Clementine: I'm scared, Lee.
Lee: What can I tell you to make it better?
Clementine: That you won't leave me.
Lee: Oh, I wouldn't do that. I promise. Everything's gonna be all right.
(If you noticed it, the camera in the dream will also be shown on Kenny, while you talk to Lee.)
I think, that the dream means Kenny also had bad times because of his family. Kenny could never hurt Clementine! Kenny was sad, that can make people angry sometimes. People don't always make sense. 'Cause bad things happen to everyone. And it's hard to keep bein' yourself after they do. It's not like math. Sometimes there just isn't a right answer. Part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about... even if sometimes... that means hurting someone else.
I honestly don't see Kenny getting out of this alive. He's just one of those characters who will be with you, almost to the end.
Forever Lee, Kenny and Clementine.
So, What do you think is the meaning of this dream?
Please, everyone can express his opinion, no reason to argue about Kenny and Jane.
Comments
oh. i already see the kenny fanatics raising hell, when their savior is compared to lilly.
i do not thinks this dream was about kenny specific. it seemed to be a little about everyone ... mike, arvo, jane, ... although to me mike and jane could not be further away from lilly.
i thought it was hilarious when kenny compared jane to lilly.
that is complete nonsense. when kenny saw i did not had the baby. i had reasonable fear i had to kill him to save myself. considering my choices left the impression on him i was "corrupted" by jane.
kenny always looks for someone to blame. just look at what he did to arvo. (what condemnable thing did arvo actually do before shooting clementine?) if there is no one to blame left, he will blame clementine. combine that with something happening to the baby and tragedy is inevitable.
Lee wanted Clem to kill Jane. That's why it panned over to Kenny to remind us he's the 1 that mattered and he's been there since forever.
KennyForLife
LongLiveNick
YaaaaasKennySlayHerrrrrrrrrr
The dream means:
Hail Kenny, full of boats, the stache is with thee. Blessed are those amongst urbans and blessed is the fruit of thy loins Duck. Holy Kenny, father of Duck, pray for us shitbirds now in the hour of our bite. Amen.
Telltale deliberately scripted that dream sequence to be open ended so the player can interpret it in any manner they wish to.
It means that Clementine will have to kill/hurt something/someone for the best of other's.
This too.
But mostly this:
Hail Kenny, full of boats, the stache is with thee. Blessed are those amongst urbans and blessed is the fruit of thy loins Duck. Holy Kenny, father of Duck, pray for us shitbirds now in the hour of our bite. Amen.
Fuck Kenny and Jane.
But mostly Kenny.
TeamSarah
You are a shitbird.
This is heresy.
did you disagreed with kenny in pretty much every situation during your first play through, like me? did you agree completely with jane? did you saw the way how kenny blamed you for sarita's death, when all you did was kill the walker that bit her? did you seem to avoid getting attached to the baby? did you see how kenny ignored your plea for help when you where freezing to death (because you forgot there might be the option not to break that ice) to punch a kid, that did not do anything condemnable, to death? (if it where not for mike) did you make it clear you have no trust in wellington? did every decision you made seemed to be cold and calculated?
i doubt it.
kenny had good reason to believe, my clementine could have abandoned the baby, (if not worse) because the person that created her would rather put a nail file to it's head then let it starve to death.
You seem to forget that MyClementine argument is bullshit, because its a predetermined personality with predetermined lines. That you made some decisions pragmatically doesn´t mean Clem had the same reasons.
Besides, your whole argument is bullshit. That he was shocked because Clem left AJ with Jane, a person he doesn´t trust at all, doesn´t mean he is going to get violent. That´s just you being stupid.
the final decision shows something different. (refers to the first line, you did not edit in later)
the clementine that understands what jane did, and did not condemn it, and the clementine that leaves the chance to let the baby grow up in a save environment to follow a madman into certain doom could not be more different.
Lol, nope. Did you forget that you can go with Jane and no forgive her?
And? First of all, certain doom is only your opinion, but I don´t see what does this have to do with what I said.
Yeah exactly kennyslayer, as in slay Kenny and save Jane, glad you agree
What if I hate Kenny?
Then you cannot enter the heavenly gates of Wellington, nor be graced with a proper mustache.
Sucks to be you.
Whoa, whoa, I was joking.
Screw you dude,
I do not care about the "heavenly gates of Wellington" or not growing a mustache as I'm a girl...
Whoa, Whoa, I was just joking. Was it not obvious enougth or what?
and?
clementine 1 is a person defined by reason. all that happened has changed her, thought her a lesson. she gave up on kenny and got confirmed it was the right call. she knows what problems taking care of a baby in this world might bring.
clementine 2 did not even seem comprehend why jane would do, what she did. she dismissed what she, and past events tried to teach her and rather followers her hearth then to think things through.
Well, sorry, okay? Is not like I knew that.
No, because I'm very pissed at the moment.
(It's not because of you BTW)
That she doesn´t have to 'understand or condone what Jane did'
Lol, nope.
That Clementine gave up on Kenny, I give you that, but that 'it got confirmed it was the rigth call' is only your opinion. Do go trowing your opinion around as fact.
I can´t even tell if you are serious with this shit. Are you serious? She understood enougth. Jane was a manipulative bitch that pushed Kenny over the edge to kill her, withouth thinking about the consequences.
Nope.
Nope.
Well, sorry. Is not like I knew that.
It's about why Arvo shot Clem.
YES I SAID IT, BRING THE HATE!
the point is. kenny admits in this version he was wrong and clem 1 can accept it.
just like clem 2 can see jane as just some lunatic. for her it can (at least for a while) look like kenny is healed strengthening her believe she made the right call.
we are talking about a character defining decision her.
and yes i claim clem 2 does not really comprehend why jane did what she did. she even ask something like "why would she do something like that." whatever dialogue you choose.
of course you can choose to leave both of them. but i am talking about choosing the polar opposite.
you said:
whatever you choose and how you decide to view the entire situation in the dialogue choices after paints a radical different picture of clementine. she can be a completely different person.
Lol, nope. I don´t think you can put much weigth in the words of dying man that just good shoot by the person he cares most about, in defense of the person that had just killed the other person he cared about.
She is a lunatic. You can call Jane misguided, and I suppose she is, but she is also a lunatic.
Yes. A preterdetermined character defining decesions with predetermined opinion and predetermined lines.
She does.
That´s before you can say 'You were rigth about her'. So, like I said, is a predetermined personality with predetermined lines.
Are you being serious or just that thick? Whatever you chosse or how you view the situation doesn´t matter, because, like I said, that you made the decisions with a certain view doesn´t not mean Clem has the same reasons.
It's pretty clear that the dream is supposed to say "You won't know what the right thing is, so do the h you want to, Clem"
It's a setup for the Jane/Kenny confrontation which is similar to Lily and Ben's confrontation, "I don't know if I did that right thing" shows us that Lee is completelty neutral to the players feelings, just like Clementine. "You have to do what's best for those you care abot, even if sometimes that means hurting someone else" means that you should do whatever you feel is best.
Some interprets that as "put Kenny out of his misery" others interpret it as "trust Kenny" and a variance of other ways, there is no finite point to Clementine's dream it's all interpretation.
I agree with you, it makes sense.
Clem: Why did Lilly do that to Doug/Carley?
Lee: I don't know. She was sad, Clem. That can make people angry sometimes.
...
Lee: Clem, people don't always make sense.
Clem: How come?
Lee: 'Cause bad things happen to everyone. And it's hard to keep bein' yourself after they do.
It does make sense for parts of it to be about Arvo and other parts to be about something else.
you really think he cares more about clem then the baby?
and you CAN do everything. you control what clem gets out of this situation.
you CAN again.
you also can see her as someone that has good reason to believe kenny's search for wellington is a death sentence, that had to do something before it is to late. and just did not came up with anything better.
would you come up with something better?
which option is taken is determined by you. you are clem.
oh.
i should have noticed it is you sooner.
like i said before i do not care to discussing things forever (with a person, that complains about me presenting my opinions as facts while doing the same).
all i wanted to say,
is that is it is fact from the position of my clementine.
and that is all i am going to say.
i am out again.
Yes.
Nope.
Nope, I can´t come up with something that faking the death of baby and try to kill Kenny. Obviously.
YOU ARE CLEM withing the limits the writers drawn for you.
I already provided my explanation in the previous post, so I didn´t see any need to do it again. Unless you cannot read properly, I suppose, but that´s hardly my fault. In that case: She understood enougth. Jane was a manipulative bitch that pushed Kenny over the edge to kill her, withouth thinking about the consequences
For your position, not for the position on your clementine.
I believe that it foreshadows the final fight between Jane and Kenny: when Lee tells her that it's not like maths and sometimes there just isn't a right answer,it shows that no matter what you chose to do at the end (shoot Kenny or let him kill Jane) there isn't a right choice. Both choices have hard consequences and they change Clem. Also, when Clem tells Lee "I don't want to hurt anyone" and Lee tells her "it's not that easy", it also foreshadows the fight and the fact that Clem has to hurt someone.
If you let Kenny live you lose Jane but if you save Jane you lose Kenny or even worst you can even lose them both. And that's where I felt that the game was very successful at giving you hard choices ,when I understood that there never really was a good choice or a bad choice, just like sometimes in real life you can't rely on morality anymore and you just have to do what you think is best in that particular moment and then just learn to live with the consequences.
It´s probably foreshadowing the Kenny/Jane decision because no matter what, you have to hurt one/both.
Pissed of ME? ;(
You know after Kenny has killed Jane. Then Kenny says:
Kenny: It was me or her, Clem. She was tryin' to kill me too. If she hadn't lied about Alvin here it wouldn't have went that far.
Clementine: I just... why would she...
Kenny: She was nuts, Clem. A disturbed person that had her own agenda, and was lookin' out for herself.
Kenny: Hey, listen. I didn't want that to happen, either. I tought she'd killed Alvie, Clem. And at any point she could've stopped what was happening by saying he was fine. She wanted a fight.
Kenny: I'd never, ever hurt you. You understand? I was protecting you.
You believe me, right?
Kenny: Just imagining what she did to Alvie... Everything just went black. By the time I got my head straight... it was too late.
Clementine: You're...dangerous, Kenny. (If you answer).
Kenny: You're... you're right, Clem. But I'm tryin' to change. I'm workin' on it. Somethin'... broke inside me... A long time ago. And I've just been tryin' to hold it together... but...
Clementine: We'll get through this, Kenny... we have to.
Kenny: Thanks for not giving up on me just yet. Come on... let's put some miles between us and this place.
The fact is: Kenny was broken when his family died and then Sarita. This was too much for him. That was also the reason, Kenny was on Clementine short sour, but then Kenny apologized, because he then said to Clem: I always forget that you're a child. You tried to do the right thing, Clem. Kenny thought that Jane has killed the baby and then Kenny saw Jane a danger for Clementine. Maybe one day could also Jane kill Clementine. And Kenny was always protecting Clementine and Kenny said: I'd never, ever hurt you, Clementine.
Watch the video:
Arvo has shot Clementine, because Clementine has shot his sick sister (she was bitten) but Arvo didn't know that his sister was bitten. Therefore Arvo wanted revenge. If Jane had said "the baby is fine" then nothing happened. Jane is to blame for her own death. Kenny has done it right.
WAT.
;-;
I'm not pissed at u
Pissed of who?
wat.
No matter where I go, it seems that the canon choice of this game is always saving Carley in Episode 1. I picked Doug, and gee, you never ever see anyone talk about him if he died in E3. I don't know, it seems kind of weird to have people posting only about Carley. I guess that's how it's always going to be though.
an apology is all that is needed? just saying something makes it true?
do not misunderstand me. i believe kenny believes it to be true. (at least mostly considering what he says in the wellington ending) but actions speak louder then words.
with every punch life has dealt him he got worse.
remember the kenny at the beginning of season 1? the man that was sometimes even the voice of reason?
you saw what he did when he just hear her say she is sorry and it was an accident? what if he actually sees the baby die, clementine is in some indirect way responsible for it, and he has no one he can blame it on beside her?
once again he says. way to protect her. punching some poor kid to death instead preventing her from freezing to death.
one day everyone could kill everyone.
but we never saw even the remotest indication that would happen.
what gave you that idea.
you become a zombi regardless how you die.
did you actually believe that? after kenny made it more then clear he thinks she is a selfish mad coldblooded babykiller, and was in a state of pure rage? do you think he would actually have believed her and that it would have stopped him in the end?
he could not even stop himself from killing arvo.
yes, i can not be sure if he would have stopped after this eight punches. but you know, eight punches especially at the head, in a position where it slams against the floor can easily kill someone.