I never really understood how much ''little'' things can ruin an episode for some people.
I mean, i hated Nick's and Sarah's death just a… mores much as anyone else, but episode 4 is one of my favorite episodes in the season.
Am i the only one that loved all the episodes? =/
What about the promise we made to uncle Pete, I guess Whatever... Such a let down. Don't get me wrong i enjoyed it but it seemed like it w… moreas a 3 hour roller coaster ride. Eventually your going to get used to being on it, and its going to feel stagnant. The best part about the whole season for me was when Everyone was around the campfire, talking.
This doesn't really change anything, I still do not care for this terrible episode, the episode NEVER gives you much bonding or down time like the campfire scene in No Going Back, it's constantly, "Escape, escape, escape, get the radio, get the radio." Mike just shows up and is suddenly part of the group now because the plot demands it, he gets no real development at all neither does Jane at that point. Carver is still terribly written(for me) in this episode, he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain and he's killed off WAY too early, and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously. Nick gets nothing to do, Kenny takes center stage in development which is annoying, Sarita gets nothing to do. Most of the episode is on rails and doesn't really give you much time to explore. I don't care much for the whole Bonnie thing, cause like Carver's evil, it just feels forced in how the story is just having Bonnie and Clem be friends because the plot demands it. The 400 days characters are wasted to cameos, Troy is an awful character. The episode NEVER gives you a good impression that Howes is a living breathing community, it feels alot more like a bandit hideout and the cabin group is never really allowed to grow as characters. This is not a bad thread, and it's fine if you love In Harm's Way, but for me, this episode DESTROYED any potential this season might have had.
This doesn't really change anything, I still do not care for this terrible episode, the episode NEVER gives you much bonding or down time li… moreke the campfire scene in No Going Back, it's constantly, "Escape, escape, escape, get the radio, get the radio." Mike just shows up and is suddenly part of the group now because the plot demands it, he gets no real development at all neither does Jane at that point. Carver is still terribly written(for me) in this episode, he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain and he's killed off WAY too early, and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously. Nick gets nothing to do, Kenny takes center stage in development which is annoying, Sarita gets nothing to do. Most of the episode is on rails and doesn't really give you much time to explore. I don't care much for the whole Bonnie thing, cause like Carver's evil, it just feels forced in how th… [view original content]
the episode NEVER gives you much bonding or down time like the campfire scene in No Going Back
Maybe because this episode isn't the campfire scene from No Going Back? That scene was needed in No Going Back, not in here.
it's constantly, "Escape, escape, escape, get the radio, get the radio."
So you wanted them to stay and pick up berries with Carver to the end of the world. Poetic.
he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain and he's killed off WAY too early, and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously.
I'm too tired for this shit. Did you even read what I wrote about Carver?
The episode NEVER gives you a good impression that Howes is a living breathing community, it feels alot more like a bandit hideout
You're trapped in the prison. It was meant to make you feel that way.
the cabin group is never really allowed to grow as characters
Excuse me? Every single one of them is very well written. I don't see the problem.
This doesn't really change anything, I still do not care for this terrible episode, the episode NEVER gives you much bonding or down time li… moreke the campfire scene in No Going Back, it's constantly, "Escape, escape, escape, get the radio, get the radio." Mike just shows up and is suddenly part of the group now because the plot demands it, he gets no real development at all neither does Jane at that point. Carver is still terribly written(for me) in this episode, he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain and he's killed off WAY too early, and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously. Nick gets nothing to do, Kenny takes center stage in development which is annoying, Sarita gets nothing to do. Most of the episode is on rails and doesn't really give you much time to explore. I don't care much for the whole Bonnie thing, cause like Carver's evil, it just feels forced in how th… [view original content]
"You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive."
I'm sad that Chuck is only remembered for that stupid overused line and not ..y'know. His actual character..people just use it when they try to argue that Clem being a protag was a bad choice. Because tbh I don't think it was a good choice to make her the protag.
Why? I mean, seriously, why?
Chuck said it best.
Chuck: You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive.
In Harm's Way is the worst episode Telltale has ever made in all of their games, no amount of nitpicking little details that have nothing to do with measuring an episode's quality is gonna change how bad the episode is.
In Harm's Way is the worst episode Telltale has ever made in all of their games, no amount of nitpicking little details that have nothing to do with measuring an episode's quality is gonna change how bad the episode is.
Well, excuse me for wanting genuine character bonding and development rather than focusing on an escape plan that keeps the episode from having any more character bonding or interaction. I did read what you wrote and I still think Carver was a wasted character, not going to change my mind on how underwhelming of a character he was to me, he's too 100% cartoonish evil for this setting, which is supposed to have morals of grey, instead of black and white. What I mean by bandit hideout, is that there's barely 20 people there, it doesn't look like a community at all.
The cabin group had potential, but they're not exactly fleshed out enough for me to really get invested in them, which episode 3 really should have done instead of focusing on how awesome Kenny is and the annoying escape plan, and forcing us to love Bonnie and hate Carver, I'm sorry, but I really don't care for this episode, it's fine if you love it, I won't judge, but In Harms Way was terrible(in my opinion).
Oh boy.
the episode NEVER gives you much bonding or down time like the campfire scene in No Going Back
Maybe because this epis… moreode isn't the campfire scene from No Going Back? That scene was needed in No Going Back, not in here.
it's constantly, "Escape, escape, escape, get the radio, get the radio."
So you wanted them to stay and pick up berries with Carver to the end of the world. Poetic.
he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain and he's killed off WAY too early, and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously.
I'm too tired for this shit. Did you even read what I wrote about Carver?
The episode NEVER gives you a good impression that Howes is a living breathing community, it feels alot more like a bandit hideout
You're trapped in the prison. It was meant to make you feel that way.
the cabin group is never reall… [view original content]
Maybe this says something unpleasant about my childhood, in fact, it almost certainly does, but I've been riveted watching Clem being tasked with far more than is appropriate for her age by the people around her. With how growing up WAY too fast has been one of the big contributing factors to opening up a sort of dark spot in her heart. I'm intrigued to see how big that spot gets and where it takes her. I can relate to Clem, and understanding her pain through these transitions has made me feel far more paternally towards her than dragging her around by the hand like the little girl from Io all through S1 ever could. For every task you might (and rightly, I should add) think an 11 year old shouldn't be doing or should be leaving to an adult, I promise that somewhere out there there's an adult who expects that same task from an 11 year old.
In addition, Clem is possessed of a number of qualities that are largely innate. A certain coolness under pressure and grace under fire, the ability to think on her feet, she doesn't let fear erode her confidence, she doesn't back down when faced with adversity. None of these things can be taught, they all must be trained, which is a different thing altogether. Some people, however, have them in droves without really trying, even at a young age. In short, she's brave and quick-witted in a way most of us never will be.
Granted, that's convenient to the writing, for if she were a typical little girl she'd make an underwhelming protagonist indeed. But why should she have to be? The word typical by its very nature implies exceptions. Look right now and I'll bet you've got countless stories about exceptional youngsters accomplishing more in less than 13 years than half of us will in 50, right at your fingertips.
Is this a joke?
Chuck is a character within the story, and there... within that world that line holds water.... but he isnt "playing lee … moreor CLEM as we are discussing here... that character has no knowlege that there is a person sitting behind a computer screen playing this story/game
I dont know where to start with this but here goes....
The protagonist In a computer game is the tool that you use to interact with the world its placed in, this has to be believable, especially in a story driven game like TWD... its an "interactive" story, this means the player (me/you) has to do things its the number one rule else it not a game its a movie.....
Now due to the fact the player "has to do things/interact" and we are playing the role of a junior it forces the story into looney land and therefore makes the story more hard to believe which kills emersion and takes the player out of the story which in turn kills the whole idea and goal … [view original content]
Is this a joke?
Chuck is a character within the story, and there... within that world that line holds water.... but he isnt "playing lee … moreor CLEM as we are discussing here... that character has no knowlege that there is a person sitting behind a computer screen playing this story/game
I dont know where to start with this but here goes....
The protagonist In a computer game is the tool that you use to interact with the world its placed in, this has to be believable, especially in a story driven game like TWD... its an "interactive" story, this means the player (me/you) has to do things its the number one rule else it not a game its a movie.....
Now due to the fact the player "has to do things/interact" and we are playing the role of a junior it forces the story into looney land and therefore makes the story more hard to believe which kills emersion and takes the player out of the story which in turn kills the whole idea and goal … [view original content]
You make some good points clemmie, and im pleased you found playing clem a fun experience (like many have I might add), ive not got an issue with clem stepping up, she's a special girl thats for sure, but the situations she ends up in with grown adults about is unrealistic in my opinion and is only evident due to the fact she is the protagonist and that WE the player are controling her...
If clem was split from the group and was alone I would have no problem with crossing bridges and shutting down wind turbines, because in a pinch we have to survive with what we have, for example, I didnt have an issue with clem sewing up her own arm in ep1, simply because the situation she was in she had no choice, I can quite easily see a kid of clems age and background doing that in that situation..
im good with all that, but where I start asking questions is when you or clem end up doing stuff JUST BECAUSE CLEM IS PROTAGONIST..... it just doesnt make sence, even in a desperate survival situation during a ZA, its forced......
Again im glad you and many others loved the chance to play clem and enjoyed the overall experience, all im saying is IF we had another protagonist for S2 would we have seen the same clem we have this season?
Would clem have been the one to take point on the bridge assault, would she have been shutting down wind turbines and the many other things she did this season? ?.
Season 3 yes.... clem is going to be one bad ass survivor, she will older, at an age where she can put all her experience to use and more importantly at an age where others around her will see her as such, next season I could see clem being picked out of a group males to take point on a bridge assault, she will be a molly/jane and a whole lot better, but season 2 was to soon imo...
Playing clem this soon changed the whole dynamic of the story and took it to far imo, and it definitely did not fit the existing story, no if most of the season we were alone with say crista or kenny or even luke, great.... you have to do things to survive, but the story didnt lend itself to such situations, it was a group effort or should have been... and in that situation and plot, clem would not and shouldnt not of been asked to half the things she was, and we found ourselves in that possition ONLY because we the player were playing clem as protag and I think thats weak..... real weak.... they didnt even structure the season for clem to shine like she did in a realistic manor....
Again if it had been clem alone or clem and another character, I would be the first on these boards singing clems praises for shutting turbines down and playing rambo, but not in a group, a child would never have been asked to do those things within a group like she was in, no matter what she has been through, she could be a trained navy seal and she wouldn't be expected to do those things..
Playing such an important character so young needed special attention from a writing perspective and the truth is TT had their fingers in to many pies while producing S2, if you going to play clem that early on and that young then atleast tailor the story to fit the circumstances, dont just force the situation, and imo thats why I feel S2 failed in it objectives, it wasnt believable, it didnt make sence, it made the whole series forced and changed the dynamic of the game/experience to fast and caused lots of other connected issues...
But at the end of the day my opinion means zip! S2 is what it is and its over now, so hears hoping S3 hits the target, im quite looking forward to it...
Maybe this says something unpleasant about my childhood, in fact, it almost certainly does, but I've been riveted watching Clem being tasked… more with far more than is appropriate for her age by the people around her. With how growing up WAY too fast has been one of the big contributing factors to opening up a sort of dark spot in her heart. I'm intrigued to see how big that spot gets and where it takes her. I can relate to Clem, and understanding her pain through these transitions has made me feel far more paternally towards her than dragging her around by the hand like the little girl from Io all through S1 ever could. For every task you might (and rightly, I should add) think an 11 year old shouldn't be doing or should be leaving to an adult, I promise that somewhere out there there's an adult who expects that same task from an 11 year old.
In addition, Clem is possessed of a number of qualities that are largely innate. A certain coolness un… [view original content]
Okay, I get what you're trying to put across but I'm gonna attempt to refute some of them then make a couple other points as to why I think it's the second worst ep of the season
1+3) they are related so lets bunch them together. Carver in episode 2 was shown to be smart 'the chessboard' line is an example of this, curious (for lack of a better word) he doesn't hurt Clem or hold her hostage in the cabin because he wants her to see why she can't trust the group, and ruthless as seen seen when he kills Walter after one of his men is shot (also links back to smart as he didn't kill a member of the cabin crew at first intentionally)
Then in Episode 3, he can slap Clementine almost immediately for no reason other than 'not polite to stare' or if you say how the Walkie reminds you of your parents he pretty much just goes 'lol ur parents are dead ROFLCOPTER XDXDXDXDXD' I expect this shit from Becca, not him. Then theres the slap of Sarah, sure you have to show him as a villian, but wouldn't it make sense for this to happen after the Reggie scene. It could show how worn down he is of trying to make use of Carlos daughter (who he only keeps around because of her dad) The beating of Alvin and the 'rules of nature' scene are fine for the most part, it makes sense in character even if it is way too supervillian-ish. Although if you say it's Alvin's he should get super aggressive as it defeats his whole dominance 'Im the king' attitude.
Ep's 3 writing is also bad in how it forgets Nick and makes no use of him, Carlo's has one good scene but is then just kind of there to die in a shock death that wasn't really shocking. The real gripe of EP3 is with ep 4 and mildly 5 (although 5 did it well) Is that it became all about Kenny and only Kenny. Now Kenny is a great character but focusing on him practically solely means all the other important characters get pretty much sidelined and only because the writers assume all S1 players are in love with Kenny which many weren't. Why did only Kenny and Rebecca want to kill Carver anyway? I mean I get that the others didn't want to torture him but seriously Cabin Crew, you've killed men for a hell of a lot less cough Nick.
That Clem does not do that stuff because SHE IS THE PROTAGONIST. That´s part of it, of course, but the history always explains it why she does this and that. Is not like she ends ups with responsability for the lulz.
"You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive."
I'm s… moread that Chuck is only remembered for that stupid overused line and not ..y'know. His actual character..people just use it when they try to argue that Clem being a protag was a bad choice. Because tbh I don't think it was a good choice to make her the protag.
Nah, you don't have to apologize, this is your opinion and I respect that. No need to argue over anything.
I understand you didn't like the obvious way forcing us to like Kenny, but all characters in the game (Carver and Bonnie are great exaples here) are presented gray enough to let the player decide on his own what does he feel about each one of them. You did mention wasted potential of Cabin Group, like they weren't fleshed out. In your personal thoughts about somebody, you don't need to follow any narrow path and game ain't forcing you to enter one. Perhaps, not everything was shown, to make them characters more real and let some space for us to make ours own minds in judging them.
Well, excuse me for wanting genuine character bonding and development rather than focusing on an escape plan that keeps the episode from hav… moreing any more character bonding or interaction. I did read what you wrote and I still think Carver was a wasted character, not going to change my mind on how underwhelming of a character he was to me, he's too 100% cartoonish evil for this setting, which is supposed to have morals of grey, instead of black and white. What I mean by bandit hideout, is that there's barely 20 people there, it doesn't look like a community at all.
The cabin group had potential, but they're not exactly fleshed out enough for me to really get invested in them, which episode 3 really should have done instead of focusing on how awesome Kenny is and the annoying escape plan, and forcing us to love Bonnie and hate Carver, I'm sorry, but I really don't care for this episode, it's fine if you love it, I won't judge, but In Harms Way was terrible(in my opinion).
That Clem does not do that stuff because SHE IS THE PROTAGONIST. That´s part of it, of course, but the history always explains it why she does this and that. Is not like she ends ups with responsability for the lulz.
Lets say lee survived S1 and is the S2 protagonist OR we play another protagonist...
This is pointless, because the writers could have found a way for the protagonist to shine regardless. I am talking about that you seem like you did not hear the explanations that are giving within the story.
Would clem be taking point on the bridge?
Luke does not want to risk the whole group, and does not trust Nick to watch his back after the death of Pete, so he takes Clementine with it. But he never expected anything serious to happen.
Would clem be shutting down wind turbines?
Well, the Cabin Group did not know how do that, and considering the profession of Clem´s father, I think is believable.
Would clem be going on undercover missions in carvers camp of nutcases?
You know that thing Clem uses to get to the roof? Is weak, old, and cannot handle too much weight. Clem is perfect for the job precisely because she is a kid.
Ok answer this question yes or no please...
Lets say lee survived S1 and is the S2 protagonist OR we play another protagonist...
Would… more clem be taking point on the bridge?
Would clem be shutting down wind turbines?
Would clem be going on undercover missions in carvers camp of nutcases?
If you can answer yes to those, ill shut up and lay down my keyboard...
William Carver might have been specified as a person being moody, although, deeply in his heart (the little small one) he was always Carver we see in Episode 3. What most of us saw is Carver's brutal character, his tyrant-like attitude, but besides all this, I'd say he still was a smart man. He slapped Clementine not because he enjoyed it or desired to do so, he wanted to show her he isn't afraid of hurting a child, and consequently that he doesn't treat Clem as one just because she looks innocent.
Carlos' death wasn't shocking at all, I saw it coming from the Ep1. The death itself was accompanied by a sense of powerlessness, lost of only person we could refer as a doctor, who was supposed to help Rebecca.
Why the others didn't want to kill Carver? Because it's still a murder, no matter what kind of man he was. However, he did protect them for a period of time, what I think is a big success in this world.
Okay, I get what you're trying to put across but I'm gonna attempt to refute some of them then make a couple other points as to why I think … moreit's the second worst ep of the season
1+3) they are related so lets bunch them together. Carver in episode 2 was shown to be smart 'the chessboard' line is an example of this, curious (for lack of a better word) he doesn't hurt Clem or hold her hostage in the cabin because he wants her to see why she can't trust the group, and ruthless as seen seen when he kills Walter after one of his men is shot (also links back to smart as he didn't kill a member of the cabin crew at first intentionally)
Then in Episode 3, he can slap Clementine almost immediately for no reason other than 'not polite to stare' or if you say how the Walkie reminds you of your parents he pretty much just goes 'lol ur parents are dead ROFLCOPTER XDXDXDXDXD' I expect this shit from Becca, not him. Then theres the slap of Sarah, sur… [view original content]
Maybe this says something unpleasant about my childhood, in fact, it almost certainly does, but I've been riveted watching Clem being tasked… more with far more than is appropriate for her age by the people around her. With how growing up WAY too fast has been one of the big contributing factors to opening up a sort of dark spot in her heart. I'm intrigued to see how big that spot gets and where it takes her. I can relate to Clem, and understanding her pain through these transitions has made me feel far more paternally towards her than dragging her around by the hand like the little girl from Io all through S1 ever could. For every task you might (and rightly, I should add) think an 11 year old shouldn't be doing or should be leaving to an adult, I promise that somewhere out there there's an adult who expects that same task from an 11 year old.
In addition, Clem is possessed of a number of qualities that are largely innate. A certain coolness un… [view original content]
Dude, there is a lot of downtime. And if said down time is not enougth for you, I just have to say that this episode is called In Harm´s Way. Is not going to be a stroll in the park.
Mike just shows up and is suddenly part of the group now because the plot demands it,
Mike is part of the group because he wants to escape.
he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain
I think not. He is obviously evil, okay, but that is going to far.
he's killed off WAY too early
What did you expect? For Carver to be like the governor?
and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously.
I think not. Besides, if the writers wanted you so hard to hate him, what happens in the Moonstar Loodge is a better reason.
Nick gets nothing to do,
Yes.
Kenny takes center stage in development
So because they time for the development of a main character that you don´t like this season is bad? O...Okay.
Sarita gets nothing to do.
What did you expect?
Most of the episode is on rails and doesn't really give you much time to explore.
And?
it just feels forced in how the story is just having Bonnie and Clem be friends because the plot demands it.
They don´t have to be friends. You can shoot down every attempt Bonnie makes in being friends with Clem.
The 400 days characters are wasted to cameos,
Yes.
Troy is an awful character.
Problem is that Troy is not much of a character. Like Chuck.
The episode NEVER gives you a good impression that Howes is a living breathing community,
Well, that´s like, your opinion man.
the cabin group is never really allowed to grow as characters.
Sarah grows, Carlos grows, we are show the vulnerable side of Luke and his bad side. This episode makes Luke not just a generic nice guy, and I think that´s something you should at least respect.
This doesn't really change anything, I still do not care for this terrible episode, the episode NEVER gives you much bonding or down time li… moreke the campfire scene in No Going Back, it's constantly, "Escape, escape, escape, get the radio, get the radio." Mike just shows up and is suddenly part of the group now because the plot demands it, he gets no real development at all neither does Jane at that point. Carver is still terribly written(for me) in this episode, he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain and he's killed off WAY too early, and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously. Nick gets nothing to do, Kenny takes center stage in development which is annoying, Sarita gets nothing to do. Most of the episode is on rails and doesn't really give you much time to explore. I don't care much for the whole Bonnie thing, cause like Carver's evil, it just feels forced in how th… [view original content]
So why not take alvin? Carlos?, why would you take a young girl you only just met? It wouldn't happen....
As to you explanation to the turbine... im lost for words....
Yes I know the crane was weak, and this is my point, where ever possible the opening is to small/ it wont take the weight of an adult. Blablablablaaaahhhh. ive made this quite clear already, the story was railroaded like this so its clem that has to be the "do" person. ..... its as obvious as the nose on your face..
Do you Think that crane would have been weak if we had been playing lee?
Lets say lee survived S1 and is the S2 protagonist OR we play another protagonist...
This is pointless, because the writers could ha… moreve found a way for the protagonist to shine regardless. I am talking about that you seem like you did not hear the explanations that are giving within the story.
Would clem be taking point on the bridge?
Luke does not want to risk the whole group, and does not trust Nick to watch his back after the death of Pete, so he takes Clementine with it. But he never expected anything serious to happen.
Would clem be shutting down wind turbines?
Well, the Cabin Group did not know how do that, and considering the profession of Clem´s father, I think is believable.
Would clem be going on undercover missions in carvers camp of nutcases?
You know that thing Clem uses to get to the roof? Is weak, old, and cannot handle too much weight. Clem is perfect for the job precisely because she is a kid.
Comments
Thanks Green.
Superb written. Agree with most of it. I really liked episode 3!
Nah, I love all episodes.
Me and you need to go get a drink... I agree whole hartidly.....
This doesn't really change anything, I still do not care for this terrible episode, the episode NEVER gives you much bonding or down time like the campfire scene in No Going Back, it's constantly, "Escape, escape, escape, get the radio, get the radio." Mike just shows up and is suddenly part of the group now because the plot demands it, he gets no real development at all neither does Jane at that point. Carver is still terribly written(for me) in this episode, he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain and he's killed off WAY too early, and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously. Nick gets nothing to do, Kenny takes center stage in development which is annoying, Sarita gets nothing to do. Most of the episode is on rails and doesn't really give you much time to explore. I don't care much for the whole Bonnie thing, cause like Carver's evil, it just feels forced in how the story is just having Bonnie and Clem be friends because the plot demands it. The 400 days characters are wasted to cameos, Troy is an awful character. The episode NEVER gives you a good impression that Howes is a living breathing community, it feels alot more like a bandit hideout and the cabin group is never really allowed to grow as characters. This is not a bad thread, and it's fine if you love In Harm's Way, but for me, this episode DESTROYED any potential this season might have had.
I disagree 100% in all points.
You"re free to do that, that's just how I feel.
Always respect your opinion, friend. Thank you.
Nick wasn't the only unsatisfying death of Amid the Ruins, he's just the most egregious example.
Yeah, no, I'm cool with you, even if you don't like it.
TBH.. that's what I liked about this episode.
It's a blast reading your stuff, btw.
Oh boy.
Maybe because this episode isn't the campfire scene from No Going Back? That scene was needed in No Going Back, not in here.
So you wanted them to stay and pick up berries with Carver to the end of the world. Poetic.
I'm too tired for this shit. Did you even read what I wrote about Carver?
You're trapped in the prison. It was meant to make you feel that way.
Excuse me? Every single one of them is very well written. I don't see the problem.
Average at best.
I love drinking, count me in.
You make some very good points fallandir, but honestly I don't feel less bored while playing this episode. Good thread.
Yeah, I don't want to change one's first impression about this episode, just point out underestimated things. Thanks for reading.
"You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive."
I'm sad that Chuck is only remembered for that stupid overused line and not ..y'know. His actual character..people just use it when they try to argue that Clem being a protag was a bad choice. Because tbh I don't think it was a good choice to make her the protag.
In Harm's Way is the worst episode Telltale has ever made in all of their games, no amount of nitpicking little details that have nothing to do with measuring an episode's quality is gonna change how bad the episode is.
I really liked this post.
I also liked this episode a lot. I liked each episode though
and that's your opinion
She can't do it if she doesn't feel like the episode is good, she did this cause she thinks EP3 is good, now i don't know her opinion on EP4
Well, excuse me for wanting genuine character bonding and development rather than focusing on an escape plan that keeps the episode from having any more character bonding or interaction. I did read what you wrote and I still think Carver was a wasted character, not going to change my mind on how underwhelming of a character he was to me, he's too 100% cartoonish evil for this setting, which is supposed to have morals of grey, instead of black and white. What I mean by bandit hideout, is that there's barely 20 people there, it doesn't look like a community at all.
The cabin group had potential, but they're not exactly fleshed out enough for me to really get invested in them, which episode 3 really should have done instead of focusing on how awesome Kenny is and the annoying escape plan, and forcing us to love Bonnie and hate Carver, I'm sorry, but I really don't care for this episode, it's fine if you love it, I won't judge, but In Harms Way was terrible(in my opinion).
Good post, i still don't like that Nick didn't got enough attetion and how wasted 400 days character's potential was.
Choices feel meaningless.
Maybe this says something unpleasant about my childhood, in fact, it almost certainly does, but I've been riveted watching Clem being tasked with far more than is appropriate for her age by the people around her. With how growing up WAY too fast has been one of the big contributing factors to opening up a sort of dark spot in her heart. I'm intrigued to see how big that spot gets and where it takes her. I can relate to Clem, and understanding her pain through these transitions has made me feel far more paternally towards her than dragging her around by the hand like the little girl from Io all through S1 ever could. For every task you might (and rightly, I should add) think an 11 year old shouldn't be doing or should be leaving to an adult, I promise that somewhere out there there's an adult who expects that same task from an 11 year old.
In addition, Clem is possessed of a number of qualities that are largely innate. A certain coolness under pressure and grace under fire, the ability to think on her feet, she doesn't let fear erode her confidence, she doesn't back down when faced with adversity. None of these things can be taught, they all must be trained, which is a different thing altogether. Some people, however, have them in droves without really trying, even at a young age. In short, she's brave and quick-witted in a way most of us never will be.
Granted, that's convenient to the writing, for if she were a typical little girl she'd make an underwhelming protagonist indeed. But why should she have to be? The word typical by its very nature implies exceptions. Look right now and I'll bet you've got countless stories about exceptional youngsters accomplishing more in less than 13 years than half of us will in 50, right at your fingertips.
That is all explained within the story. Except the last one. You may think is a weak explanation, but there its one.
You make some good points clemmie, and im pleased you found playing clem a fun experience (like many have I might add), ive not got an issue with clem stepping up, she's a special girl thats for sure, but the situations she ends up in with grown adults about is unrealistic in my opinion and is only evident due to the fact she is the protagonist and that WE the player are controling her...
If clem was split from the group and was alone I would have no problem with crossing bridges and shutting down wind turbines, because in a pinch we have to survive with what we have, for example, I didnt have an issue with clem sewing up her own arm in ep1, simply because the situation she was in she had no choice, I can quite easily see a kid of clems age and background doing that in that situation..
im good with all that, but where I start asking questions is when you or clem end up doing stuff JUST BECAUSE CLEM IS PROTAGONIST..... it just doesnt make sence, even in a desperate survival situation during a ZA, its forced......
Again im glad you and many others loved the chance to play clem and enjoyed the overall experience, all im saying is IF we had another protagonist for S2 would we have seen the same clem we have this season?
Would clem have been the one to take point on the bridge assault, would she have been shutting down wind turbines and the many other things she did this season? ?.
Season 3 yes.... clem is going to be one bad ass survivor, she will older, at an age where she can put all her experience to use and more importantly at an age where others around her will see her as such, next season I could see clem being picked out of a group males to take point on a bridge assault, she will be a molly/jane and a whole lot better, but season 2 was to soon imo...
Playing clem this soon changed the whole dynamic of the story and took it to far imo, and it definitely did not fit the existing story, no if most of the season we were alone with say crista or kenny or even luke, great.... you have to do things to survive, but the story didnt lend itself to such situations, it was a group effort or should have been... and in that situation and plot, clem would not and shouldnt not of been asked to half the things she was, and we found ourselves in that possition ONLY because we the player were playing clem as protag and I think thats weak..... real weak.... they didnt even structure the season for clem to shine like she did in a realistic manor....
Again if it had been clem alone or clem and another character, I would be the first on these boards singing clems praises for shutting turbines down and playing rambo, but not in a group, a child would never have been asked to do those things within a group like she was in, no matter what she has been through, she could be a trained navy seal and she wouldn't be expected to do those things..
Playing such an important character so young needed special attention from a writing perspective and the truth is TT had their fingers in to many pies while producing S2, if you going to play clem that early on and that young then atleast tailor the story to fit the circumstances, dont just force the situation, and imo thats why I feel S2 failed in it objectives, it wasnt believable, it didnt make sence, it made the whole series forced and changed the dynamic of the game/experience to fast and caused lots of other connected issues...
But at the end of the day my opinion means zip! S2 is what it is and its over now, so hears hoping S3 hits the target, im quite looking forward to it...
Okay, I get what you're trying to put across but I'm gonna attempt to refute some of them then make a couple other points as to why I think it's the second worst ep of the season
1+3) they are related so lets bunch them together. Carver in episode 2 was shown to be smart 'the chessboard' line is an example of this, curious (for lack of a better word) he doesn't hurt Clem or hold her hostage in the cabin because he wants her to see why she can't trust the group, and ruthless as seen seen when he kills Walter after one of his men is shot (also links back to smart as he didn't kill a member of the cabin crew at first intentionally)
Then in Episode 3, he can slap Clementine almost immediately for no reason other than 'not polite to stare' or if you say how the Walkie reminds you of your parents he pretty much just goes 'lol ur parents are dead ROFLCOPTER XDXDXDXDXD' I expect this shit from Becca, not him. Then theres the slap of Sarah, sure you have to show him as a villian, but wouldn't it make sense for this to happen after the Reggie scene. It could show how worn down he is of trying to make use of Carlos daughter (who he only keeps around because of her dad) The beating of Alvin and the 'rules of nature' scene are fine for the most part, it makes sense in character even if it is way too supervillian-ish. Although if you say it's Alvin's he should get super aggressive as it defeats his whole dominance 'Im the king' attitude.
Ep's 3 writing is also bad in how it forgets Nick and makes no use of him, Carlo's has one good scene but is then just kind of there to die in a shock death that wasn't really shocking. The real gripe of EP3 is with ep 4 and mildly 5 (although 5 did it well) Is that it became all about Kenny and only Kenny. Now Kenny is a great character but focusing on him practically solely means all the other important characters get pretty much sidelined and only because the writers assume all S1 players are in love with Kenny which many weren't. Why did only Kenny and Rebecca want to kill Carver anyway? I mean I get that the others didn't want to torture him but seriously Cabin Crew, you've killed men for a hell of a lot less cough Nick.
Double post ..sorry
Sorry I have no idea what your saying so I can't answer you, can you be a bit more specific?
That Clem does not do that stuff because SHE IS THE PROTAGONIST. That´s part of it, of course, but the history always explains it why she does this and that. Is not like she ends ups with responsability for the lulz.
His actual character? Dude, he barely got any screen time. There is not much else to remember from Chuck.
*she
It was bad because of Nick and Sarah (duh), but still, I liked it. You guys really want me to defend Ep4? I don't know, maybe.
Nah, you don't have to apologize, this is your opinion and I respect that. No need to argue over anything.
I understand you didn't like the obvious way forcing us to like Kenny, but all characters in the game (Carver and Bonnie are great exaples here) are presented gray enough to let the player decide on his own what does he feel about each one of them. You did mention wasted potential of Cabin Group, like they weren't fleshed out. In your personal thoughts about somebody, you don't need to follow any narrow path and game ain't forcing you to enter one. Perhaps, not everything was shown, to make them characters more real and let some space for us to make ours own minds in judging them.
Ok answer this question yes or no please...
Lets say lee survived S1 and is the S2 protagonist OR we play another protagonist...
Would clem be taking point on the bridge?
Would clem be shutting down wind turbines?
Would clem be going on undercover missions in carvers camp of nutcases?
If you can answer yes to those, ill shut up and lay down my keyboard...
This is pointless, because the writers could have found a way for the protagonist to shine regardless. I am talking about that you seem like you did not hear the explanations that are giving within the story.
Luke does not want to risk the whole group, and does not trust Nick to watch his back after the death of Pete, so he takes Clementine with it. But he never expected anything serious to happen.
Well, the Cabin Group did not know how do that, and considering the profession of Clem´s father, I think is believable.
You know that thing Clem uses to get to the roof? Is weak, old, and cannot handle too much weight. Clem is perfect for the job precisely because she is a kid.
William Carver might have been specified as a person being moody, although, deeply in his heart (the little small one) he was always Carver we see in Episode 3. What most of us saw is Carver's brutal character, his tyrant-like attitude, but besides all this, I'd say he still was a smart man. He slapped Clementine not because he enjoyed it or desired to do so, he wanted to show her he isn't afraid of hurting a child, and consequently that he doesn't treat Clem as one just because she looks innocent.
Carlos' death wasn't shocking at all, I saw it coming from the Ep1. The death itself was accompanied by a sense of powerlessness, lost of only person we could refer as a doctor, who was supposed to help Rebecca.
Why the others didn't want to kill Carver? Because it's still a murder, no matter what kind of man he was. However, he did protect them for a period of time, what I think is a big success in this world.
Brilliantly written.
dafuq?
Dude, there is a lot of downtime. And if said down time is not enougth for you, I just have to say that this episode is called In Harm´s Way. Is not going to be a stroll in the park.
Mike is part of the group because he wants to escape.
I think not. He is obviously evil, okay, but that is going to far.
What did you expect? For Carver to be like the governor?
I think not. Besides, if the writers wanted you so hard to hate him, what happens in the Moonstar Loodge is a better reason.
Yes.
So because they time for the development of a main character that you don´t like this season is bad? O...Okay.
What did you expect?
And?
They don´t have to be friends. You can shoot down every attempt Bonnie makes in being friends with Clem.
Yes.
Problem is that Troy is not much of a character. Like Chuck.
Well, that´s like, your opinion man.
Sarah grows, Carlos grows, we are show the vulnerable side of Luke and his bad side. This episode makes Luke not just a generic nice guy, and I think that´s something you should at least respect.
So why not take alvin? Carlos?, why would you take a young girl you only just met? It wouldn't happen....
As to you explanation to the turbine... im lost for words....
Yes I know the crane was weak, and this is my point, where ever possible the opening is to small/ it wont take the weight of an adult. Blablablablaaaahhhh. ive made this quite clear already, the story was railroaded like this so its clem that has to be the "do" person. ..... its as obvious as the nose on your face..
Do you Think that crane would have been weak if we had been playing lee?