So why not take alvin? Carlos?, why would you take a young girl you only just met? It wouldn't happen....
As to you explanation to the tu… morerbine... im lost for words....
Yes I know the crane was weak, and this is my point, where ever possible the opening is to small/ it wont take the weight of an adult. Blablablablaaaahhhh. ive made this quite clear already, the story was railroaded like this so its clem that has to be the "do" person. ..... its as obvious as the nose on your face..
Do you Think that crane would have been weak if we had been playing lee?
In Harm's Way is the worst episode Telltale has ever made in all of their games, no amount of nitpicking little details that have nothing to do with measuring an episode's quality is gonna change how bad the episode is.
So why not take alvin? Carlos?,
Because they are not what you could call badass.
As to you explanation to the turbine... im lo… morest for words....
Do you really think everybody knows how to shut down a turbine?
Yes I know the crane was weak, and this is my point, where ever possible the opening is to small/ it wont take the weight of an adult.
No, no really. But still, that is not the point. You were acting like Clem ended up with the responsability for the lulz, and I am correcting you.
Do you Think that crane would have been weak if we had been playing lee?
No, of course. If the crane had be weak how could Lee have used it to get to the roof? That does not change anything.
Look, Carlos is just a doctor and Alvin is a fat dude. No exactly hardened survivors. That´s all. If you can´t interpret what I was saying, don´t blame me for that.
Are you trolling me of somthing? ?..........No really?
"Because theynare not what you call badass".....
This is not an answer, your trolling me and im loosing patience, im gona walk away now, thx for the discusion...
Excellent points man I agree with all of them. This episode created a lot of consistent and believable tense moments, it also sets the player's mind on who Clementine should become imo.
There's none to be made. They just didn't give a fuck or were like 'Oh shit, we were meant to add some people or something right?" and the guy next to him just sort of shrugs and that's what they came up with. I wouldn't mind as much but ONE LINE. ONE LINE? No interaction?! Awful.
William Carver might have been specified as a person being moody, although, deeply in his heart (the little small one) he was always Carver … morewe see in Episode 3. What most of us saw is Carver's brutal character, his tyrant-like attitude, but besides all this, I'd say he still was a smart man. He slapped Clementine not because he enjoyed it or desired to do so, he wanted to show her he isn't afraid of hurting a child, and consequently that he doesn't treat Clem as one just because she looks innocent.
Carlos' death wasn't shocking at all, I saw it coming from the Ep1. The death itself was accompanied by a sense of powerlessness, lost of only person we could refer as a doctor, who was supposed to help Rebecca.
Why the others didn't want to kill Carver? Because it's still a murder, no matter what kind of man he was. However, he did protect them for a period of time, what I think is a big success in this world.
Um theres a typo in the post someone saying saying cavers group just wanted to tell you so you could fix it
And uh at 1 point you spelled choice wrong so you have a couple typos but overall a good post
One of the interesting point you mentioned was Carlos. In episode 3, I notices that Carlos got a rather drastic change in his attitude. Back in episode 2, he got the balls to spit Carver in the face. In episode 3, Carver might have off-screen threatened his daughter if he tried anything stupid. This may explain the reason for his sudden lack of confidence.
Carlos is so underestimated. He and Sarah could be reference to season 1, represent a father-daughter relationship we saw between Lee and Clem, and what would've happened if Lee was a person Carver needed. Obviously Clementine is more mature than Sarah, but still, if Lee haven't taught her how to survive, she might have ended up like her.
You may some very interesting point, friend!
One of the interesting point you mentioned was Carlos. In episode 3, I notices that Carlos g… moreot a rather drastic change in his attitude. Back in episode 2, he got the balls to spit Carver in the face. In episode 3, Carver might have off-screen threatened his daughter if he tried anything stupid. This may explain the reason for his sudden lack of confidence.
Even though episode 3 is the second worst episode in my opinion (amid the ruins is the worst). The part with Sarita in the herd was my favorite scene of the whole season.
Even though episode 3 is the second worst episode in my opinion (amid the ruins is the worst). The part with Sarita in the herd was my favorite scene of the whole season.
Down time means slow character development bonding time, in Harm's Way didn't really have much of that at all. I don't mind that Kenny gets development, the problem with that is that Kenny's development gets in the way of other character's development, he takes over the entire episode which is annoying to me. Carlos never grows, at all, he shows up, he's gone for most of the episode, and then gets killed off before he's even fleshed out, and hes' a plot device for a story arc that didn't go anywhere. What did I expect from Sarita? I expected a character, not a plot device for another character, that's not good writing. What did I expect from Carver? I expected a story arc that would go somewhere, but instead it's rushed out the gate. Ways to make a character evil- 1. Have someone slap a child, 2. Beat up a fan favorite character, 3. Kill a funny amputated person, FORCED. If Troy is not a character, then why does he get so much screen time? Why is half of his dialogue lousy and stupid? Why is he so one-dimensional? He's just there to be the asshole guard and nothing else, and that is stupid. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure prior episodes had a little bit more walking around and exploring, than "on boring rails" In Harm's Way. There's really nothing to Mike as a character at all, he just shows up and is friends with everyone, because the plot demands it, he's the generic nice guy muscle and that's it, nothing else to him at all and he doesn't have a camaraderie with a another character like Omid and Christa. In Harm's Way was a terrible mess, and that's just how I feel, so there you go.
the episode NEVER gives you much bonding
dafuq?
or down time
Dude, there is a lot of downtime. And if said down time i… mores not enougth for you, I just have to say that this episode is called In Harm´s Way. Is not going to be a stroll in the park.
Mike just shows up and is suddenly part of the group now because the plot demands it,
Mike is part of the group because he wants to escape.
he's a cartoonish, generic apocalypse villain
I think not. He is obviously evil, okay, but that is going to far.
he's killed off WAY too early
What did you expect? For Carver to be like the governor?
and this episode tries way too hard in making you hate Carver, it's so stupidly forced, I can't take it seriously.
I think not. Besides, if the writers wanted you so hard to hate him, what happens in the Moonstar Loodge is a better reason.
Nick gets nothing to do,
Yes.
Kenn… [view original content]
Headcanon: Carver was convinced to go into Crawford by his somewhat abusive father. Anna Corea (when shooting people on a rampage as seen on the final tape) the last shot, you hear is Anna shooting someone walking in the corridoor. That person was Carvers father. With the loss of Carvers father, the influence of a somewhat abused childhood, and soon deluding himself into Crawfords morality - Carver wanted to start a new community where it was simple "survival of the fittest". He then fled Savannah and spent months putting a group together at Howe's Hardware.
Thank you, Craticus for your eloquent and civil response.
Yes, I'm on. No, I'm not ignoring this. I'll be editing this at some point tonight into an eloquent counter-argument of my own. Though I expect I'll be conceding the point, at least to some degree. My device situation is currently such that essay posts are taking 30-60 minutes to write and I just don't have it in me right this second. I do have a bit more to say on a few of the specific events you mention though.
You make some good points clemmie, and im pleased you found playing clem a fun experience (like many have I might add), ive not got an issue… more with clem stepping up, she's a special girl thats for sure, but the situations she ends up in with grown adults about is unrealistic in my opinion and is only evident due to the fact she is the protagonist and that WE the player are controling her...
If clem was split from the group and was alone I would have no problem with crossing bridges and shutting down wind turbines, because in a pinch we have to survive with what we have, for example, I didnt have an issue with clem sewing up her own arm in ep1, simply because the situation she was in she had no choice, I can quite easily see a kid of clems age and background doing that in that situation..
im good with all that, but where I start asking questions is when you or clem end up doing stuff JUST BECAUSE CLEM IS PROTAGONIST..... it just doesnt ma… [view original content]
Headcanon: Carver was convinced to go into Crawford by his somewhat abusive father. Anna Corea (when shooting people on a rampage as seen on… more the final tape) the last shot, you hear is Anna shooting someone walking in the corridoor. That person was Carvers father. With the loss of Carvers father, the influence of a somewhat abused childhood, and soon deluding himself into Crawfords morality - Carver wanted to start a new community where it was simple "survival of the fittest". He then fled Savannah and spent months putting a group together at Howe's Hardware.
So you liked, Walter's death, Carlos' death, treatment of 400 days characters? I'm just saying if everyone hated Amid the ruins for Nick's d… moreeath, then they should have completely despised In Harm's Way for the treatment of 400 days characters and Carlos' death, to me the hate for Amid the ruins doesn't make any sense.
Yea its nice to have a civil dabate around here of late isnt it lol...
I know what u mean on essay sized posts, I usualy end up with decent sized post to get my point across, problem is tho is time lol...
Ive made a few replies to your "is clem to young to be protagonist"... Although I felt you were baiting me into that thread somewhat whahahaha, but I got around to replying today, I didnt post earlier as I was contemplating my own monster thread and im already running the risk of sounding like a broken record lol
Thank you, Craticus for your eloquent and civil response.
Yes, I'm on. No, I'm not ignoring this. I'll be editing this at some point ton… moreight into an eloquent counter-argument of my own. Though I expect I'll be conceding the point, at least to some degree. My device situation is currently such that essay posts are taking 30-60 minutes to write and I just don't have it in me right this second. I do have a bit more to say on a few of the specific events you mention though.
Until then, cheers.
Great thread. I don't know why so many people hated In Harm's Way, I loved it. You take in account little details and it's nice to see a thread talking about the good things in TWD, instead of filling the community with hate and disappointement threads. It maks me look at it in a brand new light.
I like the use of images and the effort put into this, but I frankly disagree.
For one thing, I actually felt no urgency or fear while playing the episode. This is because there are hardly any failure states. Beyond the obligatory zombie scene in the store (which doesn't actually seem to have any lasting impact on the story, aside from possibly giving Carver a better reason to beat up Kenny), there is no chance for Clementine to actually get caught during the scenes when she's sabotaging Carver's community. I don't feel like a prisoner if there is no actual risk or harm in my way.
I'd also agree about Carver's characterization remaining consistent, but disagree about him being sympathetic. It's actually quite clear that you're meant to hate him in Episode 2 (his scary background music, his superficial charm, his blatant torture) and there is no way to justify him torturing, murdering and treating women like his property. It says more about the audience than the writers that people cry foul about him appearing 'likable' in Episode 2 when he actually never was that way.
It DOES seem incompetent, however, if the writers intended us to accept the idea that he used to be a nicer person, because we never actually see any evidence of his humanity at any point in his screen-time.
The shock-value of his death is also outweighed by the fact that he was killed for Kenny's character arc, not for the cabin group's. With the loss of a human villain as the center of conflict, the Season felt aimless and floundering as a result. One can argue that he served as a foil to Kenny - one can read their interactions as two men violently fighting to dominate a group, and Kenny's killing of Carver in particular is framed as him trying to one-up Carver.
Comments
Because they are not what you could call badass.
Do you really think everybody knows how to shut down a turbine?
No, no really. But still, that is not the point. You were acting like Clem ended up with the responsability for the lulz, and I am correcting you.
No, of course. If the crane had be weak how could Lee have used it to get to the roof? That does not change anything.
please explain.
Yeah well, that's just like, your opinion, man.
Are you trolling me of somthing? ?..........No really?
"Because theynare not what you call badass".....
This is not an answer, your trolling me and im loosing patience, im gona walk away now, thx for the discusion...
Look, Carlos is just a doctor and Alvin is a fat dude. No exactly hardened survivors. That´s all. If you can´t interpret what I was saying, don´t blame me for that.
Excellent points man I agree with all of them. This episode created a lot of consistent and believable tense moments, it also sets the player's mind on who Clementine should become imo.
What about 400 days characters? make some points about them.
There's none to be made. They just didn't give a fuck or were like 'Oh shit, we were meant to add some people or something right?" and the guy next to him just sort of shrugs and that's what they came up with. I wouldn't mind as much but ONE LINE. ONE LINE? No interaction?! Awful.
Um theres a typo in the post someone saying saying cavers group just wanted to tell you so you could fix it
And uh at 1 point you spelled choice wrong so you have a couple typos but overall a good post
Fixed the second one, but I can't find first typo. And sorry, I was writing in a hurry.
I kinda hope for another DLC about them, so I won't judge this case yet.
You may some very interesting point, friend!
One of the interesting point you mentioned was Carlos. In episode 3, I notices that Carlos got a rather drastic change in his attitude. Back in episode 2, he got the balls to spit Carver in the face. In episode 3, Carver might have off-screen threatened his daughter if he tried anything stupid. This may explain the reason for his sudden lack of confidence.
Plot twist: The first typo does not exist.
Yes, that what I was thinking.
Carlos is so underestimated. He and Sarah could be reference to season 1, represent a father-daughter relationship we saw between Lee and Clem, and what would've happened if Lee was a person Carver needed. Obviously Clementine is more mature than Sarah, but still, if Lee haven't taught her how to survive, she might have ended up like her.
Oh sorry madame,
goto carlos section you spelled daughter wrong
fixed.
It's okay, sir.
Even though episode 3 is the second worst episode in my opinion (amid the ruins is the worst). The part with Sarita in the herd was my favorite scene of the whole season.
In lukes segment u spelled important wrong
In your unsername u spelled dumb wrong
[removed]
[removed]
I just didn't include Sarita's part 'cause there wasn't much philosophy about it.
Yes please
Down time means slow character development bonding time, in Harm's Way didn't really have much of that at all. I don't mind that Kenny gets development, the problem with that is that Kenny's development gets in the way of other character's development, he takes over the entire episode which is annoying to me. Carlos never grows, at all, he shows up, he's gone for most of the episode, and then gets killed off before he's even fleshed out, and hes' a plot device for a story arc that didn't go anywhere. What did I expect from Sarita? I expected a character, not a plot device for another character, that's not good writing. What did I expect from Carver? I expected a story arc that would go somewhere, but instead it's rushed out the gate. Ways to make a character evil- 1. Have someone slap a child, 2. Beat up a fan favorite character, 3. Kill a funny amputated person, FORCED. If Troy is not a character, then why does he get so much screen time? Why is half of his dialogue lousy and stupid? Why is he so one-dimensional? He's just there to be the asshole guard and nothing else, and that is stupid. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure prior episodes had a little bit more walking around and exploring, than "on boring rails" In Harm's Way. There's really nothing to Mike as a character at all, he just shows up and is friends with everyone, because the plot demands it, he's the generic nice guy muscle and that's it, nothing else to him at all and he doesn't have a camaraderie with a another character like Omid and Christa. In Harm's Way was a terrible mess, and that's just how I feel, so there you go.
for real?
LOL
Headcanon: Carver was convinced to go into Crawford by his somewhat abusive father. Anna Corea (when shooting people on a rampage as seen on the final tape) the last shot, you hear is Anna shooting someone walking in the corridoor. That person was Carvers father. With the loss of Carvers father, the influence of a somewhat abused childhood, and soon deluding himself into Crawfords morality - Carver wanted to start a new community where it was simple "survival of the fittest". He then fled Savannah and spent months putting a group together at Howe's Hardware.
Thank you, Craticus for your eloquent and civil response.
Yes, I'm on. No, I'm not ignoring this. I'll be editing this at some point tonight into an eloquent counter-argument of my own. Though I expect I'll be conceding the point, at least to some degree. My device situation is currently such that essay posts are taking 30-60 minutes to write and I just don't have it in me right this second. I do have a bit more to say on a few of the specific events you mention though.
Until then, cheers.
that's interesting.
I have to replay this episode first.
Carlos had a good death. He served his purpose. And could have been, COULD HAVE BEEN good character development for Sarah.
Sorry clemmie, only just seen your reply..
Yea its nice to have a civil dabate around here of late isnt it lol...
I know what u mean on essay sized posts, I usualy end up with decent sized post to get my point across, problem is tho is time lol...
Ive made a few replies to your "is clem to young to be protagonist"... Although I felt you were baiting me into that thread somewhat whahahaha, but I got around to replying today, I didnt post earlier as I was contemplating my own monster thread and im already running the risk of sounding like a broken record lol
You can find the thread here THE COMPLICATIONS OF CLEMENTIME S2 AND BEYOND but be warned its long, the wife is not happy I took the afternoon off to write it lol..
Looking forward to discussing this further
Chears fallandir, :》 I enjoy your posts also
wait, we're gonna get DLC?
Great thread. I don't know why so many people hated In Harm's Way, I loved it. You take in account little details and it's nice to see a thread talking about the good things in TWD, instead of filling the community with hate and disappointement threads. It maks me look at it in a brand new light.
My only issue with ep 3 was the 400 days thing other then hat I enjoyed the episode immensely
I like the use of images and the effort put into this, but I frankly disagree.
For one thing, I actually felt no urgency or fear while playing the episode. This is because there are hardly any failure states. Beyond the obligatory zombie scene in the store (which doesn't actually seem to have any lasting impact on the story, aside from possibly giving Carver a better reason to beat up Kenny), there is no chance for Clementine to actually get caught during the scenes when she's sabotaging Carver's community. I don't feel like a prisoner if there is no actual risk or harm in my way.
I'd also agree about Carver's characterization remaining consistent, but disagree about him being sympathetic. It's actually quite clear that you're meant to hate him in Episode 2 (his scary background music, his superficial charm, his blatant torture) and there is no way to justify him torturing, murdering and treating women like his property. It says more about the audience than the writers that people cry foul about him appearing 'likable' in Episode 2 when he actually never was that way.
It DOES seem incompetent, however, if the writers intended us to accept the idea that he used to be a nicer person, because we never actually see any evidence of his humanity at any point in his screen-time.
The shock-value of his death is also outweighed by the fact that he was killed for Kenny's character arc, not for the cabin group's. With the loss of a human villain as the center of conflict, the Season felt aimless and floundering as a result. One can argue that he served as a foil to Kenny - one can read their interactions as two men violently fighting to dominate a group, and Kenny's killing of Carver in particular is framed as him trying to one-up Carver.