For Those of You That Have Fairly Exceptional Writing Prowess
I'd like some help trying to figure out any of the many different themes throughout the first season of The Walking Dead.
While I'd love to be able to dissect and interpret stories on my own, I'm not at all experienced with this skill and would like someone to help me out a little.
I basically just want a good amount of the themes identified as well as some tips and ideas on how they should be reimplemented in Season 2 (if it were to be re-written).
Whoever has the best answer gets da gold.
Don't hesitate to write a Tl;DR if you need to.
The more words, the better.
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Umm, I'll just list some themes from the first season, Death, Hope, Depression, Love, Adaptation and other people can think of some more. From Season 2 I'll say More Depression and Death, Strength, Acceptance of the world as it is, Despair,Loss of Innocence and Survival, (Again other people can think of more).
kewl.
Thanks bruh.
No Problem, Clem has changed a lot and so has the theme between the seasons.
Ooooooh
Good call duuuuuuude!
:DDDD
This is da shit ah'm talkin' 'bout.
Telltale barely even delved into topics like that and you just waltz in here and show them up?
Get outta here boi. xD
lol
I am serious.
Thanks for the help man.
The importance of family was a huge one. "Family is all that matters" or some variation of that is heard in almost every Episode, and is exemplified through a number of characters (Hershel, Lilly, and Kenny all come to mind but almost every character touches on this at least once throughout the Season) but part of that "Family is the most important thing" theme is that family isn't just the people related to you by blood. The biggest example of this would be Clem and her relationship with Lee. The two of them form an extremely strong father-daughter bond despite having known each other for only a few months, and everyone who played the game probably views the two of them as family after everything they went through together. Despite not being actually related to each other, they love each other like they were and in the end Lee is willing to give his life for her because of their bond. Another example of this is Kenny in Episode 5, who finally realizes the "Family is more than blood" thing and, being a family man to the end, is willing to die for another member of the group because for all intents and purposes, the group is as much his family as Kat and Duck were (Even though he ultimately survives the ordeal, he was still willing to die for either Christa or Ben) and emphasizes the importance of "Sticking it out and helping the folks you care about," instead of just giving up because family is the people who look out for you no matter what and isn't defined by blood relation.
The theme of family also extends to what can happen with the loss of the ones that a person considers their family (Again with Hershel, Lilly, and Kenny being prime examples of this), but I'll save that for another time. Or I might just have no idea what I'm saying and it turns out I was talking out of my ass this whole time.
Analysis and dissection of how stories work thematically are hardly my strong suit, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents anyway. I think the primary theme seen throughout Season 1 and 2 is this idea of choosing pragmatism above empathy/humanity, and this is also reflected in the first seasons of the TV show in which Shane Walsh is able to adapt to the apocalyptic scenario with much more ease than anyone else, but at the cost of his conscience.
In the game there are moments such as weighing up whether to saltlick Larry or attempt to save him... Saltlicking him being more the practical choice due to it potentially preventing him from turning and therefore eliminating any threat to Clementine and the rest of the group, but also of course having some dire ethical implications behind it. Then there's the Lilly situation, St. John situation, station wagon situation, screaming girl situation, Ben situation etc etc, and these all ultimately fall into whether you're willing to sacrifice your moral compass for the sake of the group.
This carries on into Season 2 with the majority of its main decisions falling onto the same general theme. Do you ditch Sarah because she's a burden, even though it's a fucked up thing to do? Do you kill Kenny due to him becoming a threat? Do you steal from Arvo? The Lee flashback further cements this whole idea with him telling Clementine that you often have to hurt people in order to save the ones you love.
Really good synopsis, man.
Makes me want to play the first Season of the Walking Dead again just reading this.
Anyway, I love the idea that this was the central theme to these games and it's a shame Telltale (in my opinion) didn't take this concept as far as it could have gone in the second season.
Either way, thanks for the input bro.
Really appreciated.
No problemo. There's a ton of other stuff about family's importance in there, but being the lazy bastard that I am decided to bring out some of the main examples. There is also a heavy emphasis on the themes of redemption and loss, but due to the aforementioned laziness... yeah. You could say that laziness is a theme in my own life.
EDIT: And they certainly didn't take family as far as they could have in Season 2. They had excellent set ups for it in the form of Nick and Pete's relationship as well as Rebecca, Alvin, and Carver's situation. It's a shame that it wasn't expanded on more, especially int he case of the former.
Another major theme of Season 1 was redemption. Specifically, Lee finding redemption for his past sins by taking care of Clementine and ultimately sacrificing himself for her. All the terrible things that the Stranger calls you out on and judges you for don't matter. In the end, you did the right thing. You saved Clementine.
No worries man. Laziness ain't no character flaw in my book. Hell, this thread post in essence is just another way for me to get away from doing anything productive. I mean, I guess I'm learning new things, but I ain't getting anything done. lol
Anyway, thanks for laying out the groundwork for me. As much as you think you're being lazy or whatever, the stuff you just posted is literally blowing my mind right now. No joke. And it's cool if you don't feel like spelling out every single thematic statement for me. I could use the critical thinking skills. And besides I ain't dumb (I don't think), so now that I know what to look for, I doubt too many things will go over my head.
EDIT: Yah man. This season was soooo disappointing. None of the characters felt at all developed (and they were actually kinda dicks), the story (to me) seemed a little all over the place, and like you mentioned it didn't seem to have that strong of a central theme. I'm sure there are other issues it has, but those are the only things I could pick up on.
Dance!
Wait this isn't the Foot Loose forum....
thaaaaaaaaanks
Thanks for your insight.
I'll definitely take this into consideration as well.
I liked Season 2, but in my eyes Season 1 is still far superior in its characters and themes. I'm not even entirely sure what the main theme of Season 2 is supposed to be, and plenty of characters in S2 were essentially wasted (Sarah and Nick being glaring examples) but overall I thought it was adequate. Though given the enormous quality of S1, "adequate" isn't quite the compliment it would be for other games.
I agree. I mean, like... I did enjoy Season 2, but there were many times I noticed myself getting disappointed when some really promising potential was never expanded upon. I agree with you though. It was decent. A good 5 or 6 out of 10, but really underwhelming compared to the original's greatness.
I definitely wouldn't reject reading a fan's rewriting of season 2, although I imagine that would be a hard task to undertake.
For season 1: "your past doesn't define you", "You don't have to be blood to be family"and definitely "Intentions mean NOTHING." The first one mainly applies to Lee, but could apply to others as well like the St.Johns and Vernon. Lee killed the governor, the St Johns were proud dairy farm owners, and Vernon and his group were cancer survivors whom were probably extremely grateful. Lee saved Clem's life as well as a few others depending on your decisions, the St Johns turned into cannibals, and Vernon stole the boat that he KNEW was our only hope. The second none I don't think I need to explain. The third one applies to almost EVERYONE. Kenny intended to save everyone from a possible undead Larry, Ben intended to keep the bandits away and/or save his friend, Chuck intended to bring Lee to reality with Clem, The group intended to save themselves by stealing from the car,Clem intended to find her parents no matter what, Lily intended to find out who was stealing from the group, need I go on?
I'm too tired to do the 2nd season right now, I'll be back tomorrow.
OK, first I have to ask: is this homework?
(No big deal if it is--just try to shut me up about this story!) So. Sticking just to season 1...
TWD is interesting among post-apocalyptic stories because of how it starts. Most PA lit focuses more heavily on the breakdown of infrastructure, possibly because that's in the back of our minds often, with frequent natural disasters and the possibility of running out of energy. PA survivors find out what happens when the power goes off, and they can't use their electronics, and suddenly it's REALLY dark. Dark is scary--remember, until the 20th century the world was lit only by fire. We're the exception! For a really good examination of how civilization and infrastructure might fall apart, try Manel Louriero's Apocalypse Z (it takes place in Spain, so you get kind of a different view).
But TWD doesn't show any of that. In the comics (and TV show), Rick Grimes was unconscious while the really crazy beginning stuff was going on. Lee was also unconscious in the back of the police car. So right from the beginning, that tells us TWD isn't about society in general, it's about a guy (Rick, or Lee). It's about the people, the relationships. That aspect is even stronger in the game than the show or comics: Rick Grimes already had a family. Lee didn't, but then he meets Clementine almost right away--right after he finds out, via answering machine, that her parents are probably dead.
As DomeWing mentioned, redemption is a theme and it starts there, when Lee meets Clem. We know he killed somebody, but now here's a little kid that needs him. If he helps her, maybe it'll ease his conscience.
Another thing about Lee: he's a college professor. And here comes Kenny, a completely uneducated blue-collar guy. Before the apocalypse, they probably wouldn't have been friends. They're different races, different social classes, and their political views are probably opposite. But now, none of that matters. (If Lee looks at the tractor on the farm, Sean will say, "Do you know how to drive one of those?" and Lee says something like, "No, but I can give you a critique on the US Farm Bill!" Obviously, it would have been better if Lee could drive a tractor.)
In this world you need friends to stay alive, and probably because they were thrown together, Lee and Kenny have found common ground. Only once does Kenny bring up Lee's background: Lee tries to get Kenny to stop the train, and brings up Hershel's farm. Kenny says Lee is an "elitist prick" for trying to psychoanalyze him. But they make it up, and depending on your playthrough, they can stay friends to the end.
That theme is basically wish fulfillment, at least for me. Since 9/11 politics have been dividing all kinds of American relationships. From that day on, politics became a very bad subject to bring up at social events unless you knew everybody was "on your side." Personally, I really hate that. If an apocalypse came and made it all irrelevant, you wouldn't hear me complaining that I missed how people used to scream at each other about liberal/conservative views!
Speaking of liberal/conservative, another theme is binary thinking. Kenny is a pretty good example. To him, you're an OK guy or you're a complete jerk; you do the right thing or you don't. He never explains what the right thing is--because according to him you either get it or you don't, and if you don't get it, you are NOT an OK guy. The choices you have to make underscore that idea: you have to choose one thing or the other and most of the time you're on the clock. But other characters aren't as black-and-white: Carley tells Lee to be open about his past. Clementine argues to save Ben in Crawford. Vernon, on the not-so-great side of flexible thinking, beats Ben up and steals the boat for his group, and then of course there are the St. Johns (yikes!).
Myself, I'm not generally a binary thinker--I try to take the circumstances into account and see what's best in that particular instance. But this game has helped me understand more about why other people aren't comfortable with grey areas, even when they're all over the place in real life.
The binary aspect is kind of ironic, too, because the main thing that separates humans from zombies is that humans think. Lee tells Clem "You're smarter than all of them!" What he means is that if Clem thinks and analyzes, instead of just choosing alternatives based on how things ought to be (and yet frequently aren't), she'll always get ahead of the walkers. That idea extends to giving other people a chance in the post-apocalyptic world, too. Sometimes you're going to get burned, but often you're better off for it.
That gets me to my last one, at least for now--sticking together. In the TWD world, most people are in groups. It makes sense: humans are vulnerable in a number of ways. We have to sleep. We have to eat, and if finding food is hard, having more than one person around just makes sense. We need the comfort of other people--even when other people are total jerks, in a post-technology world it's still safer and better than being alone. Loners in our world are better off: they can go buy groceries, watch tv, whatever, and be reasonably sure that bandits won't suddenly raid their apartments. Loners in the TWD universe are taking very big chances. They might be sick of people and think they're better off, but are they? What becomes of Molly, for example, in picked-over Savannah? Even Chuck, a loner by nature, was happy to have some company, to the point where he chose to die for the group's safety.
In our world, we argue a lot about stuff that seems stupid in the long view: whose turn is it to do the dishes, who wins the election, who got a promotion at work. But the stick-together theme that runs through TWD and a lot of other PA literature goes against that, telling us that as humans, we do better together.
OK, enough for now. Should I say good luck on your paper?
If it's not a paper, then good for you for being interested. If you haven't gone to college yet and you want to be able to analyze stories, there are courses that will teach you, and you can take them no matter your major.
Oh. My. Goodness.
What an amazing analysis. Thank you so much for sharing your interpretation with me. I'll do my best to give you a worthy response, so forgive me as I stumble and struggle to form a coherent sentence. I'm not good with my words.
To answer your question, I'm just curious, I think. I don't plan for this to be for any kind of school essay or anything like that (although that would be pretty cool). Totally on my own accord. That being said, this information will definitely be helpful for a personal project I'm working on, but that's about it. Nothing too special. :P
Anyway, onto your actual synopsis.
I sadly can't respond to every single answer you've made (just because I don't have that much time) but do know that I'll be treasuring every single point made in your comment for quite awhile!
-in regards to your first two paragraphs-
Yah, I can totally see the difference between those two focuses now. I never would have thought to compare this game with other zombie media, so thanks for the insight on that. As someone that's fairly ignorant about zombie fiction (I've only read World War Z) aside from TWD I definitely appreciate the book recommendation. Is there any other good zombie fiction out there, because I'd be more than happy to read more into it.
I personally believe I prefer TWD's method of handling the apocalypse, but that's just me.
I don't know much about Apocalypse Z, but I'm assuming it's similar in presentation to that of World War Z? Like, as an overview of the zombie apocalypse as opposed to a personal story about a single survivor?
If I'm wrong, feel free to let me know. I tend to jump to conclusions on these things so my bad if I have.
Going off topic a tad bit; in my opinion when you're writing a zombie story, I feel it's necessary to have some form of cartoon-ish exaggeration added in some way or another. Sadly it seems like most zombie stories I know about don't seem to agree, but TWD was perfect at this. It's comic book graphics and storyline made it much easier for the player to suspend their disbelief enough for it to be taken seriously.
It definitely seems like Telltale was aware of this during Season 1's production and was just able to roll with it. That's at least one thing I noticed, but who knows? Maybe it's just a personal preference of mine. Either way, I think TWD's style and intro were pretty neat, so I'll stand by it.
Your analysis of the politics (or lack thereof) in TWD world is also definitely an interesting point to be made. It is funny to think that Kenny and Lee did end up becoming friends even though (back in pre-apocalypse times) they more than likely had nothing in common. I can also relate to the idea of binary thinking now that you've brought it up and I've had time to think about it. I'm not 100% of the time binary like Kenny is, but I can definitely understand the thought process. Some of my personal beliefs (don't worry, I won't bring them up in this thread) only have a right and a wrong side to me, and there's no middle ground to stand on. It drives my parents up a wall sometimes.
But yah, I totally understand that concept now. Out of curiosity, are there any other notable binary thinkers in TWD or is Kenny the most extreme of them? Larry seems like he could be a candidate for that type of thought process, but I'm not all too sure.
Feel free to fill me in on that (if you want).
I was planning to right more but apparently my family's heading out to meet my grandparents and I have to accompany them.
I think I did a decent job at making conversation today, so that's a plus I suppose.
I'll try to wrap this up to the best of my ability.
I can't thank you enough for such an excellently thought out synopsis. A second thank you for the wonderful compliment. I love thinking and being curious about these types of things, and trust me your response was golden.
If you feel like bringing up more points, don't hesitate to post again. I'd love to hear more of what you have to say.
And that one college thing you mentioned sounds super fun. I had no clue that was even a course option, so I'll definitely see how that works out for me when university life rolls around.
Anyway, see you later. :V
Predictable story arch. Watch pretty much any Zombie movie.
Beginning: Shit hits the fan. Main characters band together
1/4 through: Things going ok, characters working together
1/2 mark: Things start to go wrong, supplies limited, in fighting
3/4 through: Depressing, fighting, desperation...
ending: Bad ending leaving feelings of little to no hope.
Zombie movies for the most part are about negative human nature when facing desperate situations.
Aw! Thanks
My college degree is in English. So if you decide to head for college, and most people do these days, and if you like to read, try a literature course or two, and you'll be interpreting themes like nobody's business.
I really liked World War Z (although I was underwhelmed by the movie). Apocalypse Z is different; it's the story of a former lawyer in Galicia, which is a region of Spain. The first third or so of the book is all the thoughts and impressions he has as people start to act weird, and things get worse. He goes into quite a bit of detail about how things fail, and in what order. It's the first book in a trilogy--I read all three and I loved how imaginative and interesting they were.
Zombie stories fall into about three categories, I think. There are some kind of intense and serious ones, and I usually don't read those so I don't know any titles offhand. Then there are some that are kind of funny, but also good: The Undead Situation, the Zombie Fallout series, Z-Burbia, The King of Clayfield, Dark Recollections, and one that I just finished called 900 Miles (the guy has to get from NYC to Georgia to find his wife). And finally some of them have zombies as characters, like the White Trash Zombie series (haven't read those yet) or The Girl With All the Gifts.
I'd recommend any of the above that I've read, and also there's a good young-adult one called "A Matter of Days" by Amber Kizer, where a girl and her brother have to survive and find help. I get everything on Amazon so most of those should be available.
About the binary thinking, I think Kenny is probably the most extreme, but Lilly is a close second, mostly because she's a big believer in rules.
I'll definitely consider English as a possible subject, totally. I don't think I could ever devote my livelihood to it, but I do like myself a good story.
I enjoyed World War Z as well, and I never actually saw the movie. I could tell it was just an action movie with 'World War Z' slapped onto it.
Even if it was true to the book I don't think I would've bothered with it. I don't usually watch movies based on books I've read. Totally kills the imagination and creativity for me.
Apocalypse Z definitely sounds super interesting now. I'll see if it's available at my local library. If not, I'll search for any of the other books you mentioned to check out. All sound pretty interesting even in their own right. Out of curiosity what do you mean by the books being funny? Are they satire, or are they meant to be taken seriously with quirky dialog in between? (or both)?
And I hadn't considered Lilly as a binary thinker, but I definitely should have. She assuredly fits the bill. Maybe not as perfectly as Kenny does, but enough to be a slight nuisance.