In Bonnie´s defense, everyone just saw Kenny RUNNING to reach Arvo and pulling him up when he got his leg trapped after breaking the ice, Bonnie was desperate to get Luke out of there ASAP just like most people were desperate to help Kenny when he was taking Carver´s beating and did a reckless decision that made the situation worse. The fact she was asking Clem to go for him before still was a safer measure that she got her head straight to think of, since Clem is lighter. In the end it wasn´t really no one is fault, Luke simply had bad luck in this very badly written scene with a lot of inconsistences with reality and even with itself, i mean, random walkers alive underwater, wtf? Walker pulling Luke down only with his own weight? And Bonnie managing get out of the water by herself like a dolphin when Luke drowned much earlier, considering both fell at the same time?
You need to realize that Clem can't just pass with everything just because she's little. Clem doesn't always do the right thing just because she's Clem, that's not how you should treat her.
Yes, it is. Walking over there is literally worst thing you can do, because the ice will definitley break.
Luke would have either gotten out himself, or the others could just have given some kind of rope to Clem and Bonnie (like Arvo's bindings), so Luke could pull himself out.
Bonnie going over there caused Luke's death (alternatively Clem) and endangered everyone who still was one the ice, still she is a total bitch to Clem afterwards. So yeah, that time, Bonnie's fault alone.
Is not Clem´s fault she was bit, of course, but so what? Just because Clem did not cause that does´t mean she is blameless.
I am just goi… moreng to leave this here, again:
Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm, making her scream, the scream atracts the walkers to her and she is dragged to the ground and killed.
How is that not her fault?
And if you don´t cut off her arm, she becomes unsalvagable because you did not do anything when you could.
How is that not her fault?
The walker's actions. I wasn't blaming Kenny. I blame the group for the foolish escape idea, but I name it Kenny's idea because he came up with the drive to escape when no one else really attempted to except Luke. If anything they should've grabbed the truck and smashed through the herd
Because she was bit. It isn't anyone's fault but the walker's really.
But Clem´s actions caused Sarita´s death.
No one forced … moreher into an event of getting bit except Kenny's escape idea
Kenny´s escape idea? First of all it was Kenny, Jane and Luke´s idea, and everyone else aggred with that plan, so, by your logic, we should blame all the group for Sarita´s death.
I hope you are not serious.
Is it doctors fault, if patient dies because of gunshot wound through all vital organs? Clementine came to situation, where Sarita was doomed to certain death, if her arm was not cut off. Doesnt matter what age Clementine is, it wasnt her fault that Sarita got bitten in the first place.
Is it Mike's fault that Reggie died? Mike saved Reggie and gave him a second chance, which he fucked up. And if Mike didnt cut Reggie's arm off, it would be his fault that Reggie turned? This is the logic you are using on Clem/Sarita situation.
You need to realize that Clem can't just pass with everything just because she's little. Clem doesn't always do the right thing just because she's Clem, that's not how you should treat her.
Are you serious? What part of cutting Sarita´s arm off in the middle of a walker herd is a fucking stupid idea that leads to Sarita´s death you don´t understand?
The walker's actions. I wasn't blaming Kenny. I blame the group for the foolish escape idea, but I name it Kenny's idea because he came up w… moreith the drive to escape when no one else really attempted to except Luke. If anything they should've grabbed the truck and smashed through the herd
You fail to realize that the moment Sarita was bitten, she was as good as dead. Sarita's death was ONLY her own fault.
Nope. But eve… moren if it was, you fail to realize that Clem´s actions caused Sarita to be killed, thus Sarita´s death was Clem´s fault.
Besides, some characters have survived a walker bite, so no, Sarita was not as good as dead.
Yes, it is. Walking over there is literally worst thing you can do, because the ice will definitley break.
Luke would have either gotten … moreout himself, or the others could just have given some kind of rope to Clem and Bonnie (like Arvo's bindings), so Luke could pull himself out.
Bonnie going over there caused Luke's death (alternatively Clem) and endangered everyone who still was one the ice, still she is a total bitch to Clem afterwards. So yeah, that time, Bonnie's fault alone.
This whole Bonnie situation (see what I did there) is completely determinant. In my playthrough, she didn't blame me for Luke's death, nor did she tell Mike to leave me.
In my playthrough, Bonnie is still likeable. Sucks for you guys, I guess.
Bonnie is a bitch after Luke dies if you didnt walk to Luke. Blaming Clementine was unjustified but understandable, considering how emotional she was (Just like Kenny with Clem before). Bonnie however didnt have time to grief and forgive Clementine, unlike Kenny did.
Yes, it is. Walking over there is literally worst thing you can do, because the ice will definitley break.
Luke would have either gotten … moreout himself, or the others could just have given some kind of rope to Clem and Bonnie (like Arvo's bindings), so Luke could pull himself out.
Bonnie going over there caused Luke's death (alternatively Clem) and endangered everyone who still was one the ice, still she is a total bitch to Clem afterwards. So yeah, that time, Bonnie's fault alone.
She was bitten though, it wasn't going to be fixed unless Clem got the walker off her, you're saying either way is her fault, it isn't though. The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew, by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
The walker's actions.
Are you serious? What part of cutting Sarita´s arm off in the middle of a walker herd is a fucking stupid idea that leads to Sarita´s death you don´t understand?
But whose actions caused Sarita to die? Clem´s actions. So its Clem´s fault.
You clearly dont listen to reason, so i wont bother answering this anymore.
Hershel.
And why is that? Because his leg was cut off within seconds of the bite, just as Clementine can do to Sarita's arm, except Sarita wont stay quiet and gets herself killed.
Sarita's own actions caused her to get bitten, its not Clementines fault.
But whose actions caused Sarita to die? Clem´s actions. So its Clem´s fault.
Name once character that has survived a walker bite.
Hershel.
The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew,
And? What Clem did caused Sarita to die, regardless of her intentions.
by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
I don´t think so. Lee survived for a whle before he (determinantly) gets his arm cut off. And if you do cut off his arm, then his clear he only dies for blood loss. So, yes, Sarita could have survived that.
She was bitten though, it wasn't going to be fixed unless Clem got the walker off her, you're saying either way is her fault, it isn't thoug… moreh. The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew, by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
You clearly dont listen to reason, so i wont bother answering this anymore.
Irony.
How funny.
And why is that? Because his leg was cut off within seconds of the bite, just as Clementine can do to Sarita's arm, except Sarita wont stay quiet and gets herself killed.
But whose actions caused Sarita to die? Clem´s actions. So its Clem´s fault.
You clearly dont listen to reason, so i wont bother ans… morewering this anymore.
Hershel.
And why is that? Because his leg was cut off within seconds of the bite, just as Clementine can do to Sarita's arm, except Sarita wont stay quiet and gets herself killed.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
As far as we know, only way to save someone from walker bite, is to cut off the area where the bite was. Hershel and Reggie are examples of this. Lee's arm was cut off too late and he was bound to die from the infection so there clearly is a certain amount of time before the infection spreads from the bite area. Clementine knew about Reggie and how he survived, so she was given an option to do it to Sarita. After she cut the arm, Sarita would have survived if they managed to stop her from bleeding out. Instead, she started screaming and got more bites and died.
If you didnt cut her arm off there, most likely it would have been too late to even try cutting the arm off, so she would have died anyway.
You clearly dont listen to reason, so i wont bother answering this anymore.
Irony.
How funny.
And why is that? Because his … moreleg was cut off within seconds of the bite, just as Clementine can do to Sarita's arm, except Sarita wont stay quiet and gets herself killed.
So you are going to blame Sarita for screaming?
Okay.
Good to know.
Depends, Kenny didn't blame me because I didn't chop off Sarita's arm. He was slightly pissed and blamey because I wasn't there to protect her, but it wasn't the same rage as if you did kill her. With Bonnie, I'm pissed because I DID help Luke. I'm less angry that she blames me than that she said I 'didn't do anything.' What did I do? To cover him, LIKE HE TOLD ME.
Lee's arm was cut off too late and he was bound to die from the infection so there clearly is a certain amount of time before the infection spreads from the bite area.
Debatable. Lee most likely died for blood loss, not for the bite.
Clementine knew about Reggie and how he survived, so she was given an option to do it to Sarita. After she cut the arm, Sarita would have survived if they managed to stop her from bleeding out. Instead, she started screaming and got more bites and died.
She could have bleed out even if she did not start screaming. Carlos is dead, and there is no bandages.
If you didnt cut her arm off there, most likely it would have been too late to even try cutting the arm off, so she would have died anyway.
Irony.
How funny.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
As far as we know, only… more way to save someone from walker bite, is to cut off the area where the bite was. Hershel and Reggie are examples of this. Lee's arm was cut off too late and he was bound to die from the infection so there clearly is a certain amount of time before the infection spreads from the bite area. Clementine knew about Reggie and how he survived, so she was given an option to do it to Sarita. After she cut the arm, Sarita would have survived if they managed to stop her from bleeding out. Instead, she started screaming and got more bites and died.
If you didnt cut her arm off there, most likely it would have been too late to even try cutting the arm off, so she would have died anyway.
Back to the debate.
Bonnie is a bitch after Luke dies if you didnt walk to Luke. Blaming Clementine was unjustified but understandable, c… moreonsidering how emotional she was (Just like Kenny with Clem before). Bonnie however didnt have time to grief and forgive Clementine, unlike Kenny did.
Double standards all the way.
Sarita was already dead - bit by the walker. Die now or die later, it makes no difference, dead is dead. She was dead the moment the walker bit her. It wasn't Clem's fault.
The entire episode Lee constantly reminds you of the spreading infection. If he was dying from blood loss he never would have been able to climb that ladder, jump from the bell-tower, shimmy across that sign, fight through those walkers, or fight the Stranger.
The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew,
And? What Clem did caused Sarita to die, regardless of her intentions.
… more by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
I don´t think so. Lee survived for a whle before he (determinantly) gets his arm cut off. And if you do cut off his arm, then his clear he only dies for blood loss. So, yes, Sarita could have survived that.
Lee's arm was cut off too late and he was bound to die from the infection so there clearly is a certain amount of time before the infection … morespreads from the bite area.
Debatable. Lee most likely died for blood loss, not for the bite.
Clementine knew about Reggie and how he survived, so she was given an option to do it to Sarita. After she cut the arm, Sarita would have survived if they managed to stop her from bleeding out. Instead, she started screaming and got more bites and died.
She could have bleed out even if she did not start screaming. Carlos is dead, and there is no bandages.
If you didnt cut her arm off there, most likely it would have been too late to even try cutting the arm off, so she would have died anyway.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
And Kenny was friendly to Clementine after Sarita died?
When they left that place, it was night and when Clementine saw Kenny next time, it was morning/midday. Luke died in afternoon and next night (probably 4-5 am) Bonnie was leaving and she clearly had not forgiven Clementine yet. Bonnie didnt even have enough time to grief and think clearly before leaving, so why would she be nice to a person, who she believed didnt help Luke?
Sarita was already dead - bit by the walker. Die now or die later, it makes no difference, dead is dead. She was dead the moment the walker bit her.
Reggie, Hersel, Dale, Pete´s cousin.
The entire episode Lee constantly reminds you of the spreading infection. If he was going to dying from blood loss he never would have been able to climb that ladder, jump from the bell-tower, shimmy across that sign, fight through those walkers, or fight the Stranger.
I said he may have died for blood loss, because in the last scene Lee is too pale.
Sarita was already dead - bit by the walker. Die now or die later, it makes no difference, dead is dead. She was dead the moment the walker … morebit her. It wasn't Clem's fault.
The entire episode Lee constantly reminds you of the spreading infection. If he was dying from blood loss he never would have been able to climb that ladder, jump from the bell-tower, shimmy across that sign, fight through those walkers, or fight the Stranger.
And Kenny was friendly to Clementine after Sarita died?
When they left that place, it was night and when Clementine saw Kenny next time, … moreit was morning/midday. Luke died in afternoon and next night (probably 4-5 am) Bonnie was leaving and she clearly had not forgiven Clementine yet. Bonnie didnt even have enough time to grief and think clearly before leaving, so why would she be nice to a person, who she believed didnt help Luke?
The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew,
And? What Clem did caused Sarita to die, regardless of her intentions.
… more by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
I don´t think so. Lee survived for a whle before he (determinantly) gets his arm cut off. And if you do cut off his arm, then his clear he only dies for blood loss. So, yes, Sarita could have survived that.
And Kenny was friendly to Clementine after Sarita died?
Yes, he was mad at her, so what? You can´t be saying that compares to Bonnie… more telling Mike to leave Clem to bleed out.
Bonnie didnt even have enough time to grief and think clearly before leaving, so why would she be nice to a person, who she believed didnt help Luke?
Because it was a child, just shot rigth in front of her, that was bleeding out and Bonnie´s first thougth should not have be 'Just leave her?
I know being a child is not excuse. I never said it was a excuse. I only said that
Besides, Kenny would have tried to kill them if they stayed there any longer.
And? Bonnie could have done what she did if you tried to cover Luke, said 'I am sorry, I am so sorry Clementine. I did not mean for this to happen', but she did. She left a human being to die, with disdain. A completely innocent human being. I am sorry if you have a hard time understanding this. Bonnie´s actions are worse that Kenny´s, so there is no double standard. Bonnie crossed a line, Kenny didn´t.
Because it was a child, just shot rigth in front of her, that was bleeding out and Bonnie´s first thougth should not have be 'Just leave her… more?
Being a child isnt an excuse like @EpicMustacheGuy said.
Besides, Kenny would have tried to kill them if they stayed there any longer.
ps. She had not forgiven Clem about Luke yet and being a child isnt an excuse. You have some hard times understanding this.
If you dont cut off Sarita's arm, and calm her down, she doesnt get extra bites, or turns, and instead walks away with Kenny.
Later, Kenny doesnt blame Clem equaly as he would in other cases.
Try it out.
Sarita was already dead - bit by the walker. Die now or die later, it makes no difference, dead is dead. She was dead the moment the walker … morebit her.
Reggie, Hersel, Dale, Pete´s cousin.
The entire episode Lee constantly reminds you of the spreading infection. If he was going to dying from blood loss he never would have been able to climb that ladder, jump from the bell-tower, shimmy across that sign, fight through those walkers, or fight the Stranger.
I said he may have died for blood loss, because in the last scene Lee is too pale.
i also think it really was most likely kenny's fault. he wanted to call the horde down on them even before he knew about the zombi camouflage and nether stopped the blood circulation while among the horde nor cut the arm off after.
Dale ends up dying, but survives the amputation and for Issue 62 to Issue 66. However, he only dies because he gets bitten once again. Also, the amputation was not immediate. Did not take as long as Lee, but not immediately either.
The odds are he didn't - he had symptoms of infection for quite some time.
Before he gets his arm cut off. He could have passed out for blood lost, not for the bite.
Reggie - immediate. Herschel - immediate. Never read the comic, can't comment on Dale. Pete's cousin is anecdotal, can't comment.
I sa… moreid he may have died for blood loss, because in the last scene Lee is too pale.
The odds are he didn't - he had symptoms of infection for quite some time.
Being a child isnt an excuse like @EpicMustacheGuy said.
I know being a child is not excuse. I never said it was a excuse. I only sa… moreid that
Besides, Kenny would have tried to kill them if they stayed there any longer.
And? Bonnie could have done what she did if you tried to cover Luke, said 'I am sorry, I am so sorry Clementine. I did not mean for this to happen', but she did. She left a human being to die, with disdain. A completely innocent human being. I am sorry if you have a hard time understanding this. Bonnie´s actions are worse that Kenny´s, so there is no double standard. Bonnie crossed a line, Kenny didn´t.
From Bonnie's point of view, Clementine wasnt innocent, thus her indifference for Clementine's fate.
The human being part still applies, you know. It seems like you are ignoring that.
Implying that she should have felt sorry because Clementine is a child.
Yes. Is not a excuse, but it tends to be more of a natural reaction that 'Just leave her'.
Bonnie's reaction was worse than Kenny's, but the situations were completely different so you cannot compare them.
Well, the OP compared the situations. And this is about that, exactly, the supposed 'double standard' the OP talks about. There is no double standard because, even if the situations are vaguely similar, Bonnie leaving Clem to die-after leaving her to die anyway by agreeing to leave with all the supplies- is a far worse reaction. Kenny´s reaction is far more understable that Bonnie´s reaction.
A completely innocent human being
From Bonnie's point of view, Clementine wasnt innocent, thus her indifference for Clementine's fat… moree.
You agree that being a child is not an excuse but just a message ago you said
Because it was a child, just shot rigth in front of her
Implying that she should have felt sorry because Clementine is a child.
Bonnie's reaction was worse than Kenny's, but the situations were completely different so you cannot compare them.
he wanted to call the horde down on them even before he knew about the zombi camouflage
And? First of all, it was a far better option that staying at Carver´s Camp, but I don´t see how a situation that never happens anyway proves Kenny is somehow responsible for Sarita´s death. Are you even serious?
and nether stopped the blood circulation while among the horde
With what bandages, genious?
nor cut the arm off after.
Too late for that, he can´t be sure Reggie is telling the truth, he knows (determinatly) that Lee died anyway. There are lots of reasons that you are ignoring.
just give up.
that guy will never stop.
i also think it really was most likely kenny's fault. he wanted to call the horde down on them… more even before he knew about the zombi camouflage and nether stopped the blood circulation while among the horde nor cut the arm off after.
You mean, why was he breathing heavily after tearing througth a walker horde with a knife and (determinantly) a piece of glass, figth the Stranger, strangle him with one hand and (determinantly) a shot in the gut, and losing a lot of blood? I don´t know.
and looked sick, just like Duck on his final moments? It was the walker bite.
He looked less sick, and more tired and pale to me.
I did mention this on my argument.
You said 'if they managed to stop her for bleeding out'. I said there was no way to do that.
If the infection spreads through blood, then there isnt much time to cut the area off.
Just how long 'not much' could be? We don´t know enougth to be sure.
So, like I said, maybe.
Maybe not.
The point is that Sarita was not as good as dead-there was a chance.
Debatable. Lee most likely died for blood loss, not for the bite.
Then why was he breating heavily and looked sick, just like Duck o… moren his final moments? It was the walker bite.
She could have bleed out even if she did not start screaming.
I did mention this on my argument.
Maybe. Maybe not.
If the infection spreads through blood, then there isnt much time to cut the area off.
No, the whole group stole from The Stranger. And as far as they knew the car was abandoned, where Bonnie(plus Mike and Arvo) knew perfectly well that there were others in need of those supplies. That's just a ridiculous comparison.
It's pretty damn clear that she doesn't like where the group is going, that she doesn't agree with most decisions. And that is a perfectly acceptable reason for leaving, what makes her(as well as Mike, and Arvo) a backstabbing traitor is the fact that she attempts to steal all the supplies, and the only working vehicle for miles away, from children, the person who found the supplies, and the person who got the truck running in the first place.
Kenny stole from the Stranger and condemned them to death.
And how do you know Bonnie's reason for leaving? You dont, you are just assuming. Bonnie leaves no matter her feelings towards you, so you cant assume its because Clem didnt "help" luke.
Comments
In Bonnie´s defense, everyone just saw Kenny RUNNING to reach Arvo and pulling him up when he got his leg trapped after breaking the ice, Bonnie was desperate to get Luke out of there ASAP just like most people were desperate to help Kenny when he was taking Carver´s beating and did a reckless decision that made the situation worse. The fact she was asking Clem to go for him before still was a safer measure that she got her head straight to think of, since Clem is lighter. In the end it wasn´t really no one is fault, Luke simply had bad luck in this very badly written scene with a lot of inconsistences with reality and even with itself, i mean, random walkers alive underwater, wtf? Walker pulling Luke down only with his own weight? And Bonnie managing get out of the water by herself like a dolphin when Luke drowned much earlier, considering both fell at the same time?
You need to realize that Clem can't just pass with everything just because she's little. Clem doesn't always do the right thing just because she's Clem, that's not how you should treat her.
Yes, it is. Walking over there is literally worst thing you can do, because the ice will definitley break.
Luke would have either gotten out himself, or the others could just have given some kind of rope to Clem and Bonnie (like Arvo's bindings), so Luke could pull himself out.
Bonnie going over there caused Luke's death (alternatively Clem) and endangered everyone who still was one the ice, still she is a total bitch to Clem afterwards. So yeah, that time, Bonnie's fault alone.
You fail to realize that the moment Sarita was bitten, she was as good as dead. Sarita's death was ONLY her own fault.
The walker's actions. I wasn't blaming Kenny. I blame the group for the foolish escape idea, but I name it Kenny's idea because he came up with the drive to escape when no one else really attempted to except Luke. If anything they should've grabbed the truck and smashed through the herd
Nope. But even if it was, you fail to realize that Clem´s actions caused Sarita to be killed, thus Sarita´s death was Clem´s fault.
Besides, some characters have survived a walker bite, so no, Sarita was not as good as dead.
Is it doctors fault, if patient dies because of gunshot wound through all vital organs? Clementine came to situation, where Sarita was doomed to certain death, if her arm was not cut off. Doesnt matter what age Clementine is, it wasnt her fault that Sarita got bitten in the first place.
Is it Mike's fault that Reggie died? Mike saved Reggie and gave him a second chance, which he fucked up. And if Mike didnt cut Reggie's arm off, it would be his fault that Reggie turned? This is the logic you are using on Clem/Sarita situation.
Are you serious? What part of cutting Sarita´s arm off in the middle of a walker herd is a fucking stupid idea that leads to Sarita´s death you don´t understand?
Sarita's own actions caused her to get bitten, its not Clementines fault.
Name once character that has survived a walker bite.
I thought you meant that blaming Clem was only sane thing to do. Misunderstood what you meant.
This whole Bonnie situation (see what I did there) is completely determinant. In my playthrough, she didn't blame me for Luke's death, nor did she tell Mike to leave me.
In my playthrough, Bonnie is still likeable. Sucks for you guys, I guess.
Back to the debate.
Bonnie is a bitch after Luke dies if you didnt walk to Luke. Blaming Clementine was unjustified but understandable, considering how emotional she was (Just like Kenny with Clem before). Bonnie however didnt have time to grief and forgive Clementine, unlike Kenny did.
Double standards all the way.
But whose actions caused Sarita to die? Clem´s actions. So its Clem´s fault.
Hershel.
She was bitten though, it wasn't going to be fixed unless Clem got the walker off her, you're saying either way is her fault, it isn't though. The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew, by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
You clearly dont listen to reason, so i wont bother answering this anymore.
And why is that? Because his leg was cut off within seconds of the bite, just as Clementine can do to Sarita's arm, except Sarita wont stay quiet and gets herself killed.
And? What Clem did caused Sarita to die, regardless of her intentions.
I don´t think so. Lee survived for a whle before he (determinantly) gets his arm cut off. And if you do cut off his arm, then his clear he only dies for blood loss. So, yes, Sarita could have survived that.
Irony.
How funny.
So you are going to blame Sarita for screaming?
Okay.
Good to know.
How funny.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
As far as we know, only way to save someone from walker bite, is to cut off the area where the bite was. Hershel and Reggie are examples of this. Lee's arm was cut off too late and he was bound to die from the infection so there clearly is a certain amount of time before the infection spreads from the bite area. Clementine knew about Reggie and how he survived, so she was given an option to do it to Sarita. After she cut the arm, Sarita would have survived if they managed to stop her from bleeding out. Instead, she started screaming and got more bites and died.
If you didnt cut her arm off there, most likely it would have been too late to even try cutting the arm off, so she would have died anyway.
Depends, Kenny didn't blame me because I didn't chop off Sarita's arm. He was slightly pissed and blamey because I wasn't there to protect her, but it wasn't the same rage as if you did kill her. With Bonnie, I'm pissed because I DID help Luke. I'm less angry that she blames me than that she said I 'didn't do anything.' What did I do? To cover him, LIKE HE TOLD ME.
Debatable. Lee most likely died for blood loss, not for the bite.
She could have bleed out even if she did not start screaming. Carlos is dead, and there is no bandages.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
There is one very clear diferrence.
After Clem gets shot:
Bonnie: Just leave her.
No one's judging Bonnie for mourning Luke, they're judging her because she (determinately) blamed Clementine for his death
Sarita was already dead - bit by the walker. Die now or die later, it makes no difference, dead is dead. She was dead the moment the walker bit her. It wasn't Clem's fault.
The entire episode Lee constantly reminds you of the spreading infection. If he was dying from blood loss he never would have been able to climb that ladder, jump from the bell-tower, shimmy across that sign, fight through those walkers, or fight the Stranger.
Then why was he breating heavily and looked sick, just like Duck on his final moments? It was the walker bite.
I did mention this on my argument.
If the infection spreads through blood, then there isnt much time to cut the area off.
And Kenny was friendly to Clementine after Sarita died?
When they left that place, it was night and when Clementine saw Kenny next time, it was morning/midday. Luke died in afternoon and next night (probably 4-5 am) Bonnie was leaving and she clearly had not forgiven Clementine yet. Bonnie didnt even have enough time to grief and think clearly before leaving, so why would she be nice to a person, who she believed didnt help Luke?
Reggie, Hersel, Dale, Pete´s cousin.
I said he may have died for blood loss, because in the last scene Lee is too pale.
Yes, he was mad at her, so what? You can´t be saying that compares to Bonnie telling Mike to leave Clem to bleed out.
Because it was a child, just shot rigth in front of her, that was bleeding out and Bonnie´s first thougth should not have be 'Just leave her?
It was also Sarita's best shot, we don't know if that killed Lee. People get pale when walkers bite them
Being a child isnt an excuse like @EpicMustacheGuy said.
Besides, Kenny would have tried to kill them if they stayed there any longer.
ps. She had not forgiven Clem about Luke yet and being a child isnt an excuse. You have some hard times understanding this.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
That all I was saying.
I know being a child is not excuse. I never said it was a excuse. I only said that
And? Bonnie could have done what she did if you tried to cover Luke, said 'I am sorry, I am so sorry Clementine. I did not mean for this to happen', but she did. She left a human being to die, with disdain. A completely innocent human being. I am sorry if you have a hard time understanding this. Bonnie´s actions are worse that Kenny´s, so there is no double standard. Bonnie crossed a line, Kenny didn´t.
If you dont cut off Sarita's arm, and calm her down, she doesnt get extra bites, or turns, and instead walks away with Kenny.
Later, Kenny doesnt blame Clem equaly as he would in other cases.
Try it out.
Reggie - immediate. Herschel - immediate. Never read the comic, can't comment on Dale. Pete's cousin is anecdotal, can't comment.
The odds are he didn't - he had symptoms of infection for quite some time.
just give up.
that guy will never stop.
i also think it really was most likely kenny's fault. he wanted to call the horde down on them even before he knew about the zombi camouflage and nether stopped the blood circulation while among the horde nor cut the arm off after.
Dale ends up dying, but survives the amputation and for Issue 62 to Issue 66. However, he only dies because he gets bitten once again. Also, the amputation was not immediate. Did not take as long as Lee, but not immediately either.
Before he gets his arm cut off. He could have passed out for blood lost, not for the bite.
From Bonnie's point of view, Clementine wasnt innocent, thus her indifference for Clementine's fate.
You agree that being a child is not an excuse but just a message ago you said
Implying that she should have felt sorry because Clementine is a child.
Bonnie's reaction was worse than Kenny's, but the situations were completely different so you cannot compare them.
The human being part still applies, you know. It seems like you are ignoring that.
Yes. Is not a excuse, but it tends to be more of a natural reaction that 'Just leave her'.
Well, the OP compared the situations. And this is about that, exactly, the supposed 'double standard' the OP talks about. There is no double standard because, even if the situations are vaguely similar, Bonnie leaving Clem to die-after leaving her to die anyway by agreeing to leave with all the supplies- is a far worse reaction. Kenny´s reaction is far more understable that Bonnie´s reaction.
And? First of all, it was a far better option that staying at Carver´s Camp, but I don´t see how a situation that never happens anyway proves Kenny is somehow responsible for Sarita´s death. Are you even serious?
With what bandages, genious?
Too late for that, he can´t be sure Reggie is telling the truth, he knows (determinatly) that Lee died anyway. There are lots of reasons that you are ignoring.
You mean, why was he breathing heavily after tearing througth a walker horde with a knife and (determinantly) a piece of glass, figth the Stranger, strangle him with one hand and (determinantly) a shot in the gut, and losing a lot of blood? I don´t know.
He looked less sick, and more tired and pale to me.
You said 'if they managed to stop her for bleeding out'. I said there was no way to do that.
Just how long 'not much' could be? We don´t know enougth to be sure.
So, like I said, maybe.
Maybe not.
The point is that Sarita was not as good as dead-there was a chance.
No, the whole group stole from The Stranger. And as far as they knew the car was abandoned, where Bonnie(plus Mike and Arvo) knew perfectly well that there were others in need of those supplies. That's just a ridiculous comparison.
It's pretty damn clear that she doesn't like where the group is going, that she doesn't agree with most decisions. And that is a perfectly acceptable reason for leaving, what makes her(as well as Mike, and Arvo) a backstabbing traitor is the fact that she attempts to steal all the supplies, and the only working vehicle for miles away, from children, the person who found the supplies, and the person who got the truck running in the first place.