The human being part still applies, you know. It seems like you are ignoring that.
Arvo was human being. I suppose you feel empathy for him also? Or is there even more double standards?
Yes. Is not a excuse, but it tends to be more of a natural reaction that 'Just leave her'.
Again, the situations were very different when Kenny was angry at Clementine and when Bonnie was angry at Clementine.
There is no double standard because, even if the situations are vaguely similar, Bonnie leaving Clem to die-after leaving her to die anyway by agreeing to leave with all the supplies- is a far worse reaction. Kenny´s reaction is far more understable that Bonnie´s reaction.
I suppose you agree with me that Kenny was also a prick for wanting to leave Arvo to die? Arvo is a human being after all? Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave Kenny behind instead of Arvo, Clementine just happened to be the one to get hurt in middle of it. And again, Bonnie still hated Clementine for what she did and she had no reason to feel pity for her, she didnt care about Jane and wanted/had to leave Kenny behind.
From Bonnie's point of view, Clementine wasnt innocent, thus her indifference for Clementine's fate.
The human being part still appl… moreies, you know. It seems like you are ignoring that.
Implying that she should have felt sorry because Clementine is a child.
Yes. Is not a excuse, but it tends to be more of a natural reaction that 'Just leave her'.
Bonnie's reaction was worse than Kenny's, but the situations were completely different so you cannot compare them.
Well, the OP compared the situations. And this is about that, exactly, the supposed 'double standard' the OP talks about. There is no double standard because, even if the situations are vaguely similar, Bonnie leaving Clem to die-after leaving her to die anyway by agreeing to leave with all the supplies- is a far worse reaction. Kenny´s reaction is far more understable that Bonnie´s reaction.
Huhwhat? Sarita died because she got bit. Cutting off the arm is an attempt to "save" Saritas life and if the established lore is right then it would have worked if she wouldn't have screamed and got herself bit again.
I am just going to leave this here:
Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm, making her scream, the scream atracts the walkers to her and she is dr… moreagged to the ground and killed.
How is that not her fault?
And if you don´t cut off her arm, she becomes unsalvagable because you did not do anything when you could.
How is that not her fault?
Huhwhat? Sarita died because she got bit. Cutting off the arm is an attempt to "save" Saritas life and if the established lore is right then it would have worked if she wouldn't have screamed and got herself bit again.
Clem cuts off the arm. That makes Sarita scream. That makes Sarita get killed. That makes Sarita´s death Clem´s fault.
Huhwhat? Sarita died because she got bit. Cutting off the arm is an attempt to "save" Saritas life and if the established lore is right th… moreen it would have worked if she wouldn't have screamed and got herself bit again.
Sarita's death is her own fault.
Huhwhat? Sarita died because she got bit. Cutting off the arm is an attempt to "save" Saritas life and if the established lore is right then… more it would have worked if she wouldn't have screamed and got herself bit again.
Clem cuts off the arm. That makes Sarita scream. That makes Sarita get killed. That makes Sarita´s death Clem´s fault.
If Sarita dies in the herd, it is Clem's fault, don't just brush that off. It was with the best intentions, but still: It was, to some degre… moree, her fault. And Kenny got angry, Kenny lashed out on her. And he apologized.
Now, Bonnie...she blames you if you don't go over to Luke, which is the only sane thing to do. Instead, she then walks over, making the ice break and getting Luke and almost herself killed. Then she is a total bitch to Clem.
So yeah. No double standard.
Ben wasnt sure about stealing, Lilly didnt agree with that, even Duck and Clementine thought it was wrong.
Kenny is the one who decides to steal the supplies and Katjaa agrees with him, no matter what player does.
They didnt know if it was abandoned, Kenny and Katjaa only assumed so (and they were wrong).
It's pretty damn clear that she doesn't like where the group is going, that she doesn't agree with most decisions. And that is a perfectly acceptable reason for leaving, what makes her(as well as Mike, and Arvo) a backstabbing traitor is the fact that she attempts to steal all the supplies, and the only working vehicle for miles away from children, the person who found the supplies, and the person who got the truck running in the first place.
Having a working car is too good to pass on, and Kenny didnt leave them any option. If they wanted to take that car to ensure their own survival, they had to do it in secret. Taking all supplies was shitty move from Clems point of view, but from their side necessary to ensure own survival. The supplies were Arvo's property after all, so they didnt exactly steal, just take back what was his.
No, the whole group stole from The Stranger. And as far as they knew the car was abandoned, where Bonnie(plus Mike and Arvo) knew perfectly … morewell that there were others in need of those supplies. That's just a ridiculous comparison.
It's pretty damn clear that she doesn't like where the group is going, that she doesn't agree with most decisions. And that is a perfectly acceptable reason for leaving, what makes her(as well as Mike, and Arvo) a backstabbing traitor is the fact that she attempts to steal all the supplies, and the only working vehicle for miles away, from children, the person who found the supplies, and the person who got the truck running in the first place.
Arvo was human being. I suppose you feel empathy for him also? Or is there even more double standards?
Some, but not much. Since, you know, the figth with the russians. was Arvo´s fault and that her sister got killed was also Arvo´s fault. Which is my main issue with Bonnie, real.
Again, the situations were very different when Kenny was angry at Clementine and when Bonnie was angry at Clementine.
And? Does that make leaving Clem to die anymore justificable?
I suppose you agree with me that Kenny was also a prick for wanting to leave Arvo to die? Arvo is a human being after all?
Arvo is also the reason Clem´s group nearly got killed. Is a far more valid reason to hate somebody.
Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave Kenny behind instead of Arvo, Clementine just happened to be the one to get hurt in middle of it.
This is not even about that. Stop changing the subject. This about Bonnie being happy to leave Clem to die.
And again, Bonnie still hated Clementine for what she did and she had no reason to feel pity for her,
No reason apart that Clem bleeding to death? In any case, when Mike tried to come to help her Bonnie told her to just leave her, showing she not only did not care if Clem died but that she wanted Clem dead.
she didnt care about Jane and wanted/had to leave Kenny behind.
This is not even about that. Stop changing the subject. This about Bonnie being happy to leave Clem to die.
The human being part still applies, you know. It seems like you are ignoring that.
Arvo was human being. I suppose you feel empathy … morefor him also? Or is there even more double standards?
Yes. Is not a excuse, but it tends to be more of a natural reaction that 'Just leave her'.
Again, the situations were very different when Kenny was angry at Clementine and when Bonnie was angry at Clementine.
There is no double standard because, even if the situations are vaguely similar, Bonnie leaving Clem to die-after leaving her to die anyway by agreeing to leave with all the supplies- is a far worse reaction. Kenny´s reaction is far more understable that Bonnie´s reaction.
I suppose you agree with me that Kenny was also a prick for wanting to leave Arvo to die? Arvo is a human being after all? Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave Kenny behind instead of Arvo, Clementine just happened to be the one to get hurt in middle of it… [view original content]
Clem cuts off Sarita's arm, in the middle of walker herd and that is fucking stupid <----- going to bleed out am die anyways because bandages are not going to magically fall out of the sky.
Sarita gets bit <----- in threat of dying
Clem cuts off Sarita's arm <----- threat of dying outright is gone unless she bleeds out or something.
Sarita screams <----- in threat of dying
Sarita gets bit again <---- dies
The point is that all the supplies went to benefiting the whole group. Kenny and Katjaa don't hoard it to themselves. Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo try to. As I said previously, as far as they knew, it was abandoned. They didn't have time to stick around to see if anyone would come back, they just escaped from a madhouse, and they needed to get out of there fast (not to mention, people were injured). They didn't know when they'd come across supplies again, so they had to take them. And it's still not a valid comparison, because Kenny wasn't stealing from his own group with the intentions of fucking them over to save his own sorry ass, like Bonnie and co. He stole from The Stranger with the intentions of helping the group and his family.
Then maybe, just maybe, they should have waited until it was a smarter time to leave? It was not the time or the place to carry out their escape, had they went with Kenny, Jane, and Clem, they would have seen all the cars they came across. That would have been the perfect time to leave and find another working car. Again, I still don't think that's a good justification, maybe if they planned to take Clem and AJ with them it would be different. But they didn't, they were leaving two kids to die in the cold.
Ben wasnt sure about stealing, Lilly didnt agree with that, even Duck and Clementine thought it was wrong.
Kenny is the one who decide… mores to steal the supplies and Katjaa agrees with him, no matter what player does.
They didnt know if it was abandoned, Kenny and Katjaa only assumed so (and they were wrong).
It's pretty damn clear that she doesn't like where the group is going, that she doesn't agree with most decisions. And that is a perfectly acceptable reason for leaving, what makes her(as well as Mike, and Arvo) a backstabbing traitor is the fact that she attempts to steal all the supplies, and the only working vehicle for miles away from children, the person who found the supplies, and the person who got the truck running in the first place.
Having a working car is too good to pass on, and Kenny didnt leave them any option. If they wanted to take that car to ensure their own survival, they had to do it in secret. Taki… [view original content]
You mean, why was he breathing heavily after tearing througth a walker horde with a knife and (determinantly) a piece of glass, figth the Stranger, strangle him with one hand and (determinantly) a shot in the gut, and losing a lot of blood? I don´t know.
Even if none of that determinant shit happens, he is in same condition.
He looked less sick, and more tired and pale to me.
He was bit and the bacteria/all other shit from Walker bite spread through his body and he got sick. If you get bitten, the bacteria spreads pretty fast.
You said 'if they managed to stop her for bleeding out'. I said there was no way to do that.
Thats why i said "if", not "they could".
The point is that Sarita was not as good as dead-there was a chance.
She was bitten, she was nervous and heart rate was up, the bacteria from bite would just spread before they got out from the horde to safe location.
Then why was he breating heavily
You mean, why was he breathing heavily after tearing througth a walker horde with a knife and (dete… morerminantly) a piece of glass, figth the Stranger, strangle him with one hand and (determinantly) a shot in the gut, and losing a lot of blood? I don´t know.
and looked sick, just like Duck on his final moments? It was the walker bite.
He looked less sick, and more tired and pale to me.
I did mention this on my argument.
You said 'if they managed to stop her for bleeding out'. I said there was no way to do that.
If the infection spreads through blood, then there isnt much time to cut the area off.
Just how long 'not much' could be? We don´t know enougth to be sure.
So, like I said, maybe.
Maybe not.
The point is that Sarita was not as good as dead-there was a chance.
Even if none of that determinant shit happens, he is in same condition.
Even if you take all 'the determinant shit' out, doing all of that could tire out anybody.
He was bit and the bacteria/all other shit from Walker bite spread through his body and he got sick. If you get bitten, the bacteria spreads pretty fast.
Yes . And it’s also possible that he died for blood lost and cutting off the arm worked. Look, I am not even trying to say that I am right here, just that is a possibility.
You mean, why was he breathing heavily after tearing througth a walker horde with a knife and (determinantly) a piece of glass, figth the St… moreranger, strangle him with one hand and (determinantly) a shot in the gut, and losing a lot of blood? I don´t know.
Even if none of that determinant shit happens, he is in same condition.
He looked less sick, and more tired and pale to me.
He was bit and the bacteria/all other shit from Walker bite spread through his body and he got sick. If you get bitten, the bacteria spreads pretty fast.
You said 'if they managed to stop her for bleeding out'. I said there was no way to do that.
Thats why i said "if", not "they could".
The point is that Sarita was not as good as dead-there was a chance.
She was bitten, she was nervous and heart rate was up, the bacteria from bite would just spread before they got out from the horde to safe location.
... Are you kidding me? What else would you call it? He says "This is on your head clementine" then runs of without her, dosnt even attempt to see if shes with him.
How can you spin that any differnent, Its clear your a Kenny fanboy but Kenny does abandon her there
Some, but not much. Since, you know, the figth with the russians. was Arvo´s fault and that her sister got killed was also Arvo´s fault. Which is my main issue with Bonnie, real.
It was Clementines/Kennys fault that his sister died (for shooting Rebecca). Because of that reckless decision, Luke and mike got shot and 3 russians got killed.
And? Does that make leaving Clem to die anymore justificable?
Saving your own life so some maniac doesnt kill you is justified.
Arvo is also the reason Clem´s group nearly got killed. Is a far more valid reason to hate somebody.
Clem or Kenny is the reason they almost got killed. Arvo's group never had intentions to kill any, they simply wanted to rob them.
No reason apart that Clem bleeding to death? In any case, when Mike tried to come to help her Bonnie told her to just leave her, showing she not only did not care if Clem died but that she wanted Clem dead.
And yet again, the situations were completely different. Bonnie didnt pull the trigger, she just didnt care enough about Clementine to die for her.
Arvo was human being. I suppose you feel empathy for him also? Or is there even more double standards?
Some, but not much. Since, yo… moreu know, the figth with the russians. was Arvo´s fault and that her sister got killed was also Arvo´s fault. Which is my main issue with Bonnie, real.
Again, the situations were very different when Kenny was angry at Clementine and when Bonnie was angry at Clementine.
And? Does that make leaving Clem to die anymore justificable?
I suppose you agree with me that Kenny was also a prick for wanting to leave Arvo to die? Arvo is a human being after all?
Arvo is also the reason Clem´s group nearly got killed. Is a far more valid reason to hate somebody.
Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave Kenny behind instead of Arvo, Clementine just happened to be the one to get hurt in middle of it.
This is not even about that. Stop changing the subject. This about Bonnie being happy to l… [view original content]
The point is that all the supplies went to benefiting the whole group. Kenny and Katjaa don't hoard it to themselves. Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo do.
As far as i can see it, they were not part of their group after what Kenny did and said.
As I said previously, as far as they knew it was abandoned.
No, they didnt know, they assumed. Learn the difference. They had plently of reason to assume it wasnt abandoned. There were lights on, keys inside, no signs of struggle & blood, bunch of supplies in the trunk.
They didn't know when they'd come across supplies again, so they had to take them.
Well neither did Bonnie and Mike, so why not take everything to ensure the survival of their group?
And it's still not a valid comparison, because Kenny wasn't stealing from his own group, with the intentions of fucking them over to save his own sorry ass, like Bonnie and co.
Bonnie and Mike took Arvo's supplies and Arvo with them, because they didnt want to go north and Kenny would not let them take the car. Kenny would have also left Arvo to die even if they came with Kenny to north. If they didnt steal from Kenny, Kenny would have stolen the car from them. Kenny was ignoring his whole group and trying to drag everyone else down with him. He wasnt a member of group anymore in my eyes, he just wanted to do the "right" thing for AJ, risking everyone else while doing it.
Again, I still don't think that's a good justification, maybe if they planned to take Clem and AJ with them it would be different. But they didn't, they were leaving two kids to die in the cold.
They knew Clementine wouldnt leave Kenny behind and Kenny sure as hell wouldnt give AJ to urban and ex drug addict, who cut herself (not that Kenny knew about this). Kenny wanted to leave Arvo to die and was about to risk Bonnie, Mike, Clementine, Aj, Jane and himself to die from cold in the north, because of a story. How is that any better plan?
The point is that all the supplies went to benefiting the whole group. Kenny and Katjaa don't hoard it to themselves. Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo… more try to. As I said previously, as far as they knew, it was abandoned. They didn't have time to stick around to see if anyone would come back, they just escaped from a madhouse, and they needed to get out of there fast (not to mention, people were injured). They didn't know when they'd come across supplies again, so they had to take them. And it's still not a valid comparison, because Kenny wasn't stealing from his own group with the intentions of fucking them over to save his own sorry ass, like Bonnie and co. He stole from The Stranger with the intentions of helping the group and his family.
Then maybe, just maybe, they should have waited until it was a smarter time to leave? It was not the time or the place to carry out their escape, had they went with Kenny, Jane, and Clem, they would have seen all … [view original content]
She really, really doesn't, there is literally nothing she could have done to save her and she was already bitten when you get there, you have a choice to cut off her arm but let's be serious here, there was no way that was going to work because assuming she wouldn't get eaten for screaming in pain she would have bleeded out anyway before she made it out of the herd, so she was really already dead, if anyone is to blame is Kenny, if he hadn't been so adamant on getting his petty revenge and had just shot Carver in the head they wouldn't have wasted so much time in something so pointless and stupid.
The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew,
And? What Clem did caused Sarita to die, regardless of her intentions.
… more by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
I don´t think so. Lee survived for a whle before he (determinantly) gets his arm cut off. And if you do cut off his arm, then his clear he only dies for blood loss. So, yes, Sarita could have survived that.
Even if you take all 'the determinant shit' out, doing all of that could tire out anybody.
Considering that he will still be in same condition no matter what makes your argument invalid. If you cut his arm or not cut, he will still look as sick as any walker bite victim.
Even if none of that determinant shit happens, he is in same condition.
Even if you take all 'the determinant shit' out, doing all o… moref that could tire out anybody.
He was bit and the bacteria/all other shit from Walker bite spread through his body and he got sick. If you get bitten, the bacteria spreads pretty fast.
Yes . And it’s also possible that he died for blood lost and cutting off the arm worked. Look, I am not even trying to say that I am right here, just that is a possibility.
Who is 'Them'? The bandits that attacked the motel were totally separate from the stranger, and the stranger kidnapping Clem was independent from the theft.
Kenny stole from the Stranger and condemned them to death.
And how do you know Bonnie's reason for leaving? You dont, you are just assuming. Bonnie leaves no matter her feelings towards you, so you cant assume its because Clem didnt "help" luke.
... Are you kidding me? What else would you call it?
Clementine getting lost in the herd?
Just a thougth.
He says "This is on your head clementine" then runs of without her, dosnt even attempt to see if shes with him.
First, in some scenarios Mike drags Kenny away. Second, that he did not look back doesn´t mean he was deliberatibily leavin her. He obviously expected her to follow, and she did, but she stumbled agaist the herd of walkers and got lost.
... Are you kidding me? What else would you call it? He says "This is on your head clementine" then runs of without her, dosnt even attempt … moreto see if shes with him.
How can you spin that any differnent, Its clear your a Kenny fanboy but Kenny does abandon her there
So you are blaming Clem for killing Sarita because she either cuts off Sarita's arm or she kills the walker? What the heck do you want her to do? It's no ones fault. Sarita got bit in the middle of a herd. She was good as gone at that point.
he wanted to call the horde down on them even before he knew about the zombi camouflage
And? First of all, it was a far better optio… moren that staying at Carver´s Camp, but I don´t see how a situation that never happens anyway proves Kenny is somehow responsible for Sarita´s death. Are you even serious?
and nether stopped the blood circulation while among the horde
With what bandages, genious?
nor cut the arm off after.
Too late for that, he can´t be sure Reggie is telling the truth, he knows (determinatly) that Lee died anyway. There are lots of reasons that you are ignoring.
Kenny stole all supplies from the Stranger and his family (wife and daughter, them). After they saw this, the wife left and took the daughter with her. Next day the Stranger finds her wife and daughter dead and he takes his wife's head with him. He was broken and went insane. After talking with Clem for long time through walkie talkie, he decided that Clementine would be more safe with him than Lee and he decided to kidnap her. While Lee went to investigate, he got bit and eventually dies from this or from Clem shooting him.
Who is 'Them'? The bandits that attacked the motel were totally separate from the stranger, and the stranger kidnapping Clem was independent from the theft.
It was Clementines/Kennys fault that his sister died (for shooting Rebecca). Because of that reckless decision, Luke and mike got shot and 3 russians got killed.
What could they have done?
Kenny: < Speaking Russian >
or
Clem: < Speaking Russian >
Oh, wait, they don´t fucking speak Russian.
Saving your own life so some maniac doesnt kill you is justified.
...Bonie leaved because she did not want to look for Wellington, and because of Luke´s death, not because she thougth Kenny could just go and kill her. And still doesn´t make leaving Clem to bleed out of spite justifiable.
Clem or Kenny is the reason they almost got killed. Arvo's group never had intentions to kill any, they simply wanted to rob them.
Are you even reading yourself? In the Zombie Apocalypse, robbing somebody is the same as killing them. Do you honestly think they could have survived withouth supplies, out in the cold?
Bonnie didnt pull the trigger, she just didnt care enough about Clementine to die for her.
Die for her? This is not even about that. This is that when Mike goes for help, Bonnie says 'Just leave her'. Is not that she didn´t care enougth about Clementine, but that she wanted Clementine dead.
Some, but not much. Since, you know, the figth with the russians. was Arvo´s fault and that her sister got killed was also Arvo´s fault. Whi… morech is my main issue with Bonnie, real.
It was Clementines/Kennys fault that his sister died (for shooting Rebecca). Because of that reckless decision, Luke and mike got shot and 3 russians got killed.
And? Does that make leaving Clem to die anymore justificable?
Saving your own life so some maniac doesnt kill you is justified.
Arvo is also the reason Clem´s group nearly got killed. Is a far more valid reason to hate somebody.
Clem or Kenny is the reason they almost got killed. Arvo's group never had intentions to kill any, they simply wanted to rob them.
No reason apart that Clem bleeding to death? In any case, when Mike tried to come to help her Bonnie told her to just leave her, showing she not only did not care if Clem died but that she wanted Clem dead.
… [view original content]
But the point is how it that different from Bonnie leaving her, in some cases Mike drags her away while she tries to pull back to see clem and help her. She only leaves when Kenny and Jane come out becuase the'll try to kill them
... Are you kidding me? What else would you call it?
Clementine getting lost in the herd?
Just a thougth.
He says "This is … moreon your head clementine" then runs of without her, dosnt even attempt to see if shes with him.
First, in some scenarios Mike drags Kenny away. Second, that he did not look back doesn´t mean he was deliberatibily leavin her. He obviously expected her to follow, and she did, but she stumbled agaist the herd of walkers and got lost.
They could have yelled walker or anything like that. Instead they caused a firefight to begin.
Bonie leaved because she did not want to look for Wellington, and because of Luke´s death, not because she thougth Kenny could just go and kill her. And still doesn´t make leaving Clem to bleed out of spite justifiable.
If she stayed, Kenny would have killed her. Dont deny this. Mike probably talked to her and made her feel more sorry for Arvo so she didnt have problem with Arvo being with them. Kenny would have also left Arvo to die.
Are you even reading yourself? In the Zombie Apocalypse, robbing somebody is the same as killing them. Do you honestly think they could have survived withouth supplies, out in the cold?
They didnt have anything else but ammo and guns anyway. Also, you can always find new stuff. Might aswell say that if Arvo's group didnt try to steal from them, they (clems group) would have starved to death.
Die for her? This is not even about that. This is that when Mike goes for help, Bonnie says 'Just leave her'. Is not that she didn´t care enougth about Clementine, but that she wanted Clementine dead.
If she wanted Clementine dead, she would have killed her. If they stayed behind to take care of Clem, Kenny would have murdered them both.
It was Clementines/Kennys fault that his sister died (for shooting Rebecca). Because of that reckless decision, Luke and mike got shot and 3… more russians got killed.
What could they have done?
Kenny: < Speaking Russian >
or
Clem: < Speaking Russian >
Oh, wait, they don´t fucking speak Russian.
Saving your own life so some maniac doesnt kill you is justified.
...Bonie leaved because she did not want to look for Wellington, and because of Luke´s death, not because she thougth Kenny could just go and kill her. And still doesn´t make leaving Clem to bleed out of spite justifiable.
Clem or Kenny is the reason they almost got killed. Arvo's group never had intentions to kill any, they simply wanted to rob them.
Are you even reading yourself? In the Zombie Apocalypse, robbing somebody is the same as killing them. Do you honestly think they could have survived withouth supplies, out in the cold?… [view original content]
Even if you take all 'the determinant shit' out, doing all of that could tire out anybody.
Considering that he will still be in same… more condition no matter what makes your argument invalid. If you cut his arm or not cut, he will still look as sick as any walker bite victim.
No one ever forced Mike and Bonnie to stay, they never tried to just say "we're done Kenny" and leave with Arvo. They never even tried to be diplomatic about it.
The point is that all the supplies went to benefiting the whole group. Kenny and Katjaa don't hoard it to themselves. Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo… more do.
As far as i can see it, they were not part of their group after what Kenny did and said.
As I said previously, as far as they knew it was abandoned.
No, they didnt know, they assumed. Learn the difference. They had plently of reason to assume it wasnt abandoned. There were lights on, keys inside, no signs of struggle & blood, bunch of supplies in the trunk.
They didn't know when they'd come across supplies again, so they had to take them.
Well neither did Bonnie and Mike, so why not take everything to ensure the survival of their group?
And it's still not a valid comparison, because Kenny wasn't stealing from his own group, with the intentions of fucking them over to save his own sorry ass, like Bonnie and co.
Bonnie and Mike took Arvo's supplies … [view original content]
No sure if serious...First of all, Sarita´s death is mostly Clem´s fault. Second, Bonnie blames you if you chose to cover Luke, despite that… more she caused Luke´s death herself if you chose that. Also, leaving with all the supplies, too. And saying to Mike 'Just leave her' when Clem is shot in the shoulder.
But the point is how it that different from Bonnie leaving her,
Like I said, Kenny did not leave Clem.
in some cases Mike drags her away while she tries to pull back to see clem and help her.
What? Nope, not in some cases. Just in you go to save Luke. If you don´t, Mike is the one that triest to help you, and she goes:
Bonnie: Just leave her.
She only leaves when Kenny and Jane come out becuase the'll try to kill them
In the scenario where you go to help Luke. If you don´t help Luke, which is the issue here, she leaves Clem to bleed out withouth a care, out of pure spite.
But the point is how it that different from Bonnie leaving her, in some cases Mike drags her away while she tries to pull back to see clem and help her. She only leaves when Kenny and Jane come out becuase the'll try to kill them
Considering that he will still be in same condition no matter what makes your argument invalid.
Nope. He looks different.
Lee wit… moreh arm
Skip to 1.54.
Lee with arm cut off
Skip to 1.43.
Both times are the same scene, where Lee his waked in the store by Clem. Compare them.
See the diference?
So you are blaming Clem for killing Sarita because she either cuts off Sarita's arm or she kills the walker?
Her actions lend to Sarita´s death, so is her fault. I am not saying is all her fault-Sarita could have not gotten herself bitten in the first place- but it was mostly Clem´s fault.
What the heck do you want her to do?
That those were her only choices does not change anything.
Sarita got bit in the middle of a herd. She was good as gone at that point.
Even if we accept that, you should also admit that Clem basically killed her.
So you are blaming Clem for killing Sarita because she either cuts off Sarita's arm or she kills the walker? What the heck do you want her to do? It's no ones fault. Sarita got bit in the middle of a herd. She was good as gone at that point.
They wanted the car, because a car is something you just cant pass in za. Kenny wouldnt have let them take the car.
Kenny also didnt show any signs he would listen to reason. He got angry even at Clem if she disagreed about Wellington. Like always, Kenny made up his mind and would not back down.
No one ever forced Mike and Bonnie to stay, they never tried to just say "we're done Kenny" and leave with Arvo. They never even tried to be diplomatic about it.
here was no way that was going to work because assuming she wouldn't get eaten for screaming in pain she would have bleeded out anyway before she made it out of the herd,
Yes.
That´s the point.
so she was really already dead,
Tell that to Dale.
if anyone is to blame is Kenny, if he hadn't been so adamant on getting his petty revenge and had just shot Carver in the head they wouldn't have wasted so much time in something so pointless and stupid.
So that Sarita got bitten is somehow Kenny´s fault?
She really, really doesn't, there is literally nothing she could have done to save her and she was already bitten when you get there, you ha… moreve a choice to cut off her arm but let's be serious here, there was no way that was going to work because assuming she wouldn't get eaten for screaming in pain she would have bleeded out anyway before she made it out of the herd, so she was really already dead, if anyone is to blame is Kenny, if he hadn't been so adamant on getting his petty revenge and had just shot Carver in the head they wouldn't have wasted so much time in something so pointless and stupid.
By your standards maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that all the supplies were shared with the group. He didn't keep any supplies to himself.
They saw a car, with the doors open, key in the ignition, with lots of supplies in the trunk. It doesn't make sense to leave the car like this, unless they were in a hurry and had to leave, lets say because of walkers. Prior to The Stranger's debut, it made sense that the vehicle was abandoned.They put what they knew together, and came to the conclusion that it's either abandoned or somebody may or may not be coming back. They didn't have the time to wait around to see, and seeing as they had kids, and injured members with them, they had to take it.
Bonnie and Mike were with a group already, they were choosing to leave and steal from their own group at the worst possible time. Kenny wasn't planning to ditch his group, it was a genuine concern that they didn't know when they'd find more supplies for the whole group, seeing as they're shelter was ransacked by bandits. Again, because they already had a group to ensure the survival of.
Kenny wouldn't let them take the car, because he got it running. They just met Arvo a few hours ago, whose group ambushed theirs, with the intent to rob them and kill them. Yeah, makes perfect sense for him to say "let bygones be bygones, come to my group, and become another mouth to feed." Oh my God, Kenny didn't steal the car from anyone, he got it running by himself. It was his car. He planned to go to Wellington from the beginning of season 2, and so did Christa with Clem. He wasn't going to change his course of action because of a few people he just met a few days ago. Yes, in your eyes he wasn't, and it's such a terrible thing that he's worried about the safety of an infant isn't it.
The point is that they didn't care about the survival of anyone in the group that they supposedly cared about but themselves. If Kenny was so dangerous, and they cared so much, they would have at least tried to take Clem and AJ to safety.. But they didn't, so clearly he wasn't as much of a threat as they said, or they just didn't give a shit like they pretended to. It wasn't a story, because several other people had heard of it. Christa thought it was legitimate, and Kenny's quote makes perfect sense, "where there's smoke, there's fire." Sounded a lot better than going down to Texas, to God know's where, or back to Howe's, when last time we saw it was infested with Walkers.
The point is that all the supplies went to benefiting the whole group. Kenny and Katjaa don't hoard it to themselves. Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo… more do.
As far as i can see it, they were not part of their group after what Kenny did and said.
As I said previously, as far as they knew it was abandoned.
No, they didnt know, they assumed. Learn the difference. They had plently of reason to assume it wasnt abandoned. There were lights on, keys inside, no signs of struggle & blood, bunch of supplies in the trunk.
They didn't know when they'd come across supplies again, so they had to take them.
Well neither did Bonnie and Mike, so why not take everything to ensure the survival of their group?
And it's still not a valid comparison, because Kenny wasn't stealing from his own group, with the intentions of fucking them over to save his own sorry ass, like Bonnie and co.
Bonnie and Mike took Arvo's supplies … [view original content]
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Arvo was human being. I suppose you feel empathy for him also? Or is there even more double standards?
Again, the situations were very different when Kenny was angry at Clementine and when Bonnie was angry at Clementine.
I suppose you agree with me that Kenny was also a prick for wanting to leave Arvo to die? Arvo is a human being after all? Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave Kenny behind instead of Arvo, Clementine just happened to be the one to get hurt in middle of it. And again, Bonnie still hated Clementine for what she did and she had no reason to feel pity for her, she didnt care about Jane and wanted/had to leave Kenny behind.
Huhwhat? Sarita died because she got bit. Cutting off the arm is an attempt to "save" Saritas life and if the established lore is right then it would have worked if she wouldn't have screamed and got herself bit again.
Sarita's death is her own fault.
Clem cuts off the arm. That makes Sarita scream. That makes Sarita get killed. That makes Sarita´s death Clem´s fault.
Yup, this.
Also because the only time she does blame Clem is when Bonnie herself is the one who got him freaking killed.
Nobody should have tried to approach him knowing that he was on thin ice.
Sarita gets bit <----- in threat of dying
Clem cuts off Sarita's arm <----- threat of dying outright is gone unless she bleeds out or something.
Sarita screams <----- in threat of dying
Sarita gets bit again <---- dies
In no way whatsoever is Sarita getting bit Clem's fault. Clem wasn't even close to Sarita when she got bit.
Ben wasnt sure about stealing, Lilly didnt agree with that, even Duck and Clementine thought it was wrong.
Kenny is the one who decides to steal the supplies and Katjaa agrees with him, no matter what player does.
They didnt know if it was abandoned, Kenny and Katjaa only assumed so (and they were wrong).
Having a working car is too good to pass on, and Kenny didnt leave them any option. If they wanted to take that car to ensure their own survival, they had to do it in secret. Taking all supplies was shitty move from Clems point of view, but from their side necessary to ensure own survival. The supplies were Arvo's property after all, so they didnt exactly steal, just take back what was his.
Some, but not much. Since, you know, the figth with the russians. was Arvo´s fault and that her sister got killed was also Arvo´s fault. Which is my main issue with Bonnie, real.
And? Does that make leaving Clem to die anymore justificable?
Arvo is also the reason Clem´s group nearly got killed. Is a far more valid reason to hate somebody.
This is not even about that. Stop changing the subject. This about Bonnie being happy to leave Clem to die.
No reason apart that Clem bleeding to death? In any case, when Mike tried to come to help her Bonnie told her to just leave her, showing she not only did not care if Clem died but that she wanted Clem dead.
This is not even about that. Stop changing the subject. This about Bonnie being happy to leave Clem to die.
Kenny apologized, Bonnie didn't.
Did I say that it was Clem´s faul that Sarita got bit? Nope, so stop putting words in my mouth.
Lol, nope. Is more like this:
Sarita gets bit <----- in threat of dying
Clem cuts off Sarita's arm, in the middle of walker herd and that is fucking stupid <----- going to bleed out am die anyways because bandages are not going to magically fall out of the sky.
Sarita screams <----- in threat of dying
Sarita gets bit again <---- dies
The point is that all the supplies went to benefiting the whole group. Kenny and Katjaa don't hoard it to themselves. Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo try to. As I said previously, as far as they knew, it was abandoned. They didn't have time to stick around to see if anyone would come back, they just escaped from a madhouse, and they needed to get out of there fast (not to mention, people were injured). They didn't know when they'd come across supplies again, so they had to take them. And it's still not a valid comparison, because Kenny wasn't stealing from his own group with the intentions of fucking them over to save his own sorry ass, like Bonnie and co. He stole from The Stranger with the intentions of helping the group and his family.
Then maybe, just maybe, they should have waited until it was a smarter time to leave? It was not the time or the place to carry out their escape, had they went with Kenny, Jane, and Clem, they would have seen all the cars they came across. That would have been the perfect time to leave and find another working car. Again, I still don't think that's a good justification, maybe if they planned to take Clem and AJ with them it would be different. But they didn't, they were leaving two kids to die in the cold.
And in mine. I said
Whenever did I mention it was Clem's fault she got bit? It's her fault because she hacks of Sarita's herd in the middle of a herd.
Even if none of that determinant shit happens, he is in same condition.
He was bit and the bacteria/all other shit from Walker bite spread through his body and he got sick. If you get bitten, the bacteria spreads pretty fast.
Thats why i said "if", not "they could".
She was bitten, she was nervous and heart rate was up, the bacteria from bite would just spread before they got out from the horde to safe location.
Even if you take all 'the determinant shit' out, doing all of that could tire out anybody.
Yes . And it’s also possible that he died for blood lost and cutting off the arm worked. Look, I am not even trying to say that I am right here, just that is a possibility.
... Are you kidding me? What else would you call it? He says "This is on your head clementine" then runs of without her, dosnt even attempt to see if shes with him.
How can you spin that any differnent, Its clear your a Kenny fanboy but Kenny does abandon her there
It was Clementines/Kennys fault that his sister died (for shooting Rebecca). Because of that reckless decision, Luke and mike got shot and 3 russians got killed.
Saving your own life so some maniac doesnt kill you is justified.
Clem or Kenny is the reason they almost got killed. Arvo's group never had intentions to kill any, they simply wanted to rob them.
And yet again, the situations were completely different. Bonnie didnt pull the trigger, she just didnt care enough about Clementine to die for her.
As far as i can see it, they were not part of their group after what Kenny did and said.
No, they didnt know, they assumed. Learn the difference. They had plently of reason to assume it wasnt abandoned. There were lights on, keys inside, no signs of struggle & blood, bunch of supplies in the trunk.
Well neither did Bonnie and Mike, so why not take everything to ensure the survival of their group?
Bonnie and Mike took Arvo's supplies and Arvo with them, because they didnt want to go north and Kenny would not let them take the car. Kenny would have also left Arvo to die even if they came with Kenny to north. If they didnt steal from Kenny, Kenny would have stolen the car from them. Kenny was ignoring his whole group and trying to drag everyone else down with him. He wasnt a member of group anymore in my eyes, he just wanted to do the "right" thing for AJ, risking everyone else while doing it.
They knew Clementine wouldnt leave Kenny behind and Kenny sure as hell wouldnt give AJ to urban and ex drug addict, who cut herself (not that Kenny knew about this). Kenny wanted to leave Arvo to die and was about to risk Bonnie, Mike, Clementine, Aj, Jane and himself to die from cold in the north, because of a story. How is that any better plan?
She really, really doesn't, there is literally nothing she could have done to save her and she was already bitten when you get there, you have a choice to cut off her arm but let's be serious here, there was no way that was going to work because assuming she wouldn't get eaten for screaming in pain she would have bleeded out anyway before she made it out of the herd, so she was really already dead, if anyone is to blame is Kenny, if he hadn't been so adamant on getting his petty revenge and had just shot Carver in the head they wouldn't have wasted so much time in something so pointless and stupid.
Considering that he will still be in same condition no matter what makes your argument invalid. If you cut his arm or not cut, he will still look as sick as any walker bite victim.
Then you noticed that Bonnie loved EVERY man she ever met.
Except, he only always apologises about a day after its happened, which is less time than Bonnie got.
Who knows, if we had spent another day with Bonnie she may have realised that blaming clem was wrong.
Who is 'Them'? The bandits that attacked the motel were totally separate from the stranger, and the stranger kidnapping Clem was independent from the theft.
Clementine getting lost in the herd?
Just a thougth.
First, in some scenarios Mike drags Kenny away. Second, that he did not look back doesn´t mean he was deliberatibily leavin her. He obviously expected her to follow, and she did, but she stumbled agaist the herd of walkers and got lost.
So you are blaming Clem for killing Sarita because she either cuts off Sarita's arm or she kills the walker? What the heck do you want her to do? It's no ones fault. Sarita got bit in the middle of a herd. She was good as gone at that point.
Kenny stole all supplies from the Stranger and his family (wife and daughter, them). After they saw this, the wife left and took the daughter with her. Next day the Stranger finds her wife and daughter dead and he takes his wife's head with him. He was broken and went insane. After talking with Clem for long time through walkie talkie, he decided that Clementine would be more safe with him than Lee and he decided to kidnap her. While Lee went to investigate, he got bit and eventually dies from this or from Clem shooting him.
What could they have done?
Kenny: < Speaking Russian >
or
Clem: < Speaking Russian >
Oh, wait, they don´t fucking speak Russian.
...Bonie leaved because she did not want to look for Wellington, and because of Luke´s death, not because she thougth Kenny could just go and kill her. And still doesn´t make leaving Clem to bleed out of spite justifiable.
Are you even reading yourself? In the Zombie Apocalypse, robbing somebody is the same as killing them. Do you honestly think they could have survived withouth supplies, out in the cold?
Die for her? This is not even about that. This is that when Mike goes for help, Bonnie says 'Just leave her'. Is not that she didn´t care enougth about Clementine, but that she wanted Clementine dead.
But the point is how it that different from Bonnie leaving her, in some cases Mike drags her away while she tries to pull back to see clem and help her. She only leaves when Kenny and Jane come out becuase the'll try to kill them
They could have yelled walker or anything like that. Instead they caused a firefight to begin.
If she stayed, Kenny would have killed her. Dont deny this. Mike probably talked to her and made her feel more sorry for Arvo so she didnt have problem with Arvo being with them. Kenny would have also left Arvo to die.
They didnt have anything else but ammo and guns anyway. Also, you can always find new stuff. Might aswell say that if Arvo's group didnt try to steal from them, they (clems group) would have starved to death.
If she wanted Clementine dead, she would have killed her. If they stayed behind to take care of Clem, Kenny would have murdered them both.
Nope. He looks different.
Lee with arm
Skip to 1.54.
Lee with arm cut off
Skip to 1.43.
Both times are the same scene, where Lee his waked in the store by Clem. Compare them.
See the diference?
No one ever forced Mike and Bonnie to stay, they never tried to just say "we're done Kenny" and leave with Arvo. They never even tried to be diplomatic about it.
i think she blames you if you cover luke because she believed that because your light you could've saved him but you decided not too
Like I said, Kenny did not leave Clem.
What? Nope, not in some cases. Just in you go to save Luke. If you don´t, Mike is the one that triest to help you, and she goes:
Bonnie: Just leave her.
In the scenario where you go to help Luke. If you don´t help Luke, which is the issue here, she leaves Clem to bleed out withouth a care, out of pure spite.
What i see is different brightness levels...
Her actions lend to Sarita´s death, so is her fault. I am not saying is all her fault-Sarita could have not gotten herself bitten in the first place- but it was mostly Clem´s fault.
That those were her only choices does not change anything.
Even if we accept that, you should also admit that Clem basically killed her.
They wanted the car, because a car is something you just cant pass in za. Kenny wouldnt have let them take the car.
Kenny also didnt show any signs he would listen to reason. He got angry even at Clem if she disagreed about Wellington. Like always, Kenny made up his mind and would not back down.
Yes.
That´s the point.
Tell that to Dale.
So that Sarita got bitten is somehow Kenny´s fault?
I don´t see this.
Yes.
Which is stupid, but yes.
By your standards maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that all the supplies were shared with the group. He didn't keep any supplies to himself.
They saw a car, with the doors open, key in the ignition, with lots of supplies in the trunk. It doesn't make sense to leave the car like this, unless they were in a hurry and had to leave, lets say because of walkers. Prior to The Stranger's debut, it made sense that the vehicle was abandoned.They put what they knew together, and came to the conclusion that it's either abandoned or somebody may or may not be coming back. They didn't have the time to wait around to see, and seeing as they had kids, and injured members with them, they had to take it.
Bonnie and Mike were with a group already, they were choosing to leave and steal from their own group at the worst possible time. Kenny wasn't planning to ditch his group, it was a genuine concern that they didn't know when they'd find more supplies for the whole group, seeing as they're shelter was ransacked by bandits. Again, because they already had a group to ensure the survival of.
Kenny wouldn't let them take the car, because he got it running. They just met Arvo a few hours ago, whose group ambushed theirs, with the intent to rob them and kill them. Yeah, makes perfect sense for him to say "let bygones be bygones, come to my group, and become another mouth to feed." Oh my God, Kenny didn't steal the car from anyone, he got it running by himself. It was his car. He planned to go to Wellington from the beginning of season 2, and so did Christa with Clem. He wasn't going to change his course of action because of a few people he just met a few days ago. Yes, in your eyes he wasn't, and it's such a terrible thing that he's worried about the safety of an infant isn't it.
The point is that they didn't care about the survival of anyone in the group that they supposedly cared about but themselves. If Kenny was so dangerous, and they cared so much, they would have at least tried to take Clem and AJ to safety.. But they didn't, so clearly he wasn't as much of a threat as they said, or they just didn't give a shit like they pretended to. It wasn't a story, because several other people had heard of it. Christa thought it was legitimate, and Kenny's quote makes perfect sense, "where there's smoke, there's fire." Sounded a lot better than going down to Texas, to God know's where, or back to Howe's, when last time we saw it was infested with Walkers.
...
Is the same player in both videos.
And both videos were uploaded on the same day.