No he wouldn't have let them take the car, which I don't blame him for. Without him there would be no car as he was the only one who bothered to try.
And yeah, you might be right that Kenny wouldn't listen to reason, but that doesn't matter since they don't even try. You could see in episode 4 that he didn't really give a damn that Jane left, I'm not so sure he would have been opposed if Bonnie and Mike openly wallked away.
That Kenny made up his mind about Wellington doesn't mean he'd 100% force Mike, Bonnie and Arvo to follow if they just left.
They wanted the car, because a car is something you just cant pass in za. Kenny wouldnt have let them take the car.
Kenny also didnt show… more any signs he would listen to reason. He got angry even at Clem if she disagreed about Wellington. Like always, Kenny made up his mind and would not back down.
In that case you are blaming Kenny for Lee's death? That still doesn't tell me who the 'them' was. No one else's death was directly influenced by the stranger.
The cause and effect of Kenny stealing the supplies and 'condemning them to death' is too far-fetched.
Kenny stole all supplies from the Stranger and his family (wife and daughter, them). After they saw this, the wife left and took the daughte… morer with her. Next day the Stranger finds her wife and daughter dead and he takes his wife's head with him. He was broken and went insane. After talking with Clem for long time through walkie talkie, he decided that Clementine would be more safe with him than Lee and he decided to kidnap her. While Lee went to investigate, he got bit and eventually dies from this or from Clem shooting him.
He wasted time and the herd outside became bigger, they had no time for that bullshit and Kenny did it anyway because he was angry, seriously fuck all this Kenny justification if he hated Carver so much he should have just shot him and walked away staying and destroying his face was a pointless waste of time for petty reasons when there was no time to spare, while it wasn't directly his fault he's at least as much at fault as Clementine, so I don't get why people defend him on this, he had no right to blame anyone for anything when he's the one that put everyone at risk over something completely fucking stupid.
And about Dale I don't read the comics or watch the TV show, so I don't really care, given the circumstances she could not be saved, I mean you did try cutting her arm off right?
What happens is the only thing that could happen.
here was no way that was going to work because assuming she wouldn't get eaten for screaming in pain she would have bleeded out anyway befor… moree she made it out of the herd,
Yes.
That´s the point.
so she was really already dead,
Tell that to Dale.
if anyone is to blame is Kenny, if he hadn't been so adamant on getting his petty revenge and had just shot Carver in the head they wouldn't have wasted so much time in something so pointless and stupid.
So that Sarita got bitten is somehow Kenny´s fault?
I don´t see this.
That Kenny made up his mind about Wellington doesn't mean he'd 100% force Mike, Bonnie and Arvo to follow if they just walked away.
The point was that they would have to let go of the car, if they didnt follow Kenny to north. Even if everyone else in the group disagreed with Kennys plan, he still plans to go north. What would he have done in the morning if Clementine doesnt want to go north (like my Clem didnt)?
No he wouldn't have let them take the car, which I don't blame him for. Without him there would be no car as he was the only one who bothere… mored to try.
And yeah, you might be right that Kenny wouldn't listen to reason, but that doesn't matter since they don't even try. You could see in episode 4 that he didn't really give a damn that Jane left, I'm not so sure he would have been opposed if Bonnie and Mike openly wallked away.
That Kenny made up his mind about Wellington doesn't mean he'd 100% force Mike, Bonnie and Arvo to follow if they just left.
he had no right to blame anyone for anything when he's the one that put everyone at risk over something completely fucking stupid.
The point it that Kenny thing, even if we accept what you are saying, is really indirectly. Clem took the decision herself, knowing the risks. Also, if we what to get this ridicolous logic going, Sarita´s death is Carlo´s fault for getting shot with a stray bullet, thus making Sarah scream thus drawing the walkers to them, thus serapathing the group. The point here is that Clem was there to take action, and she if she does then she basically kills Sarita. If not, the infection spreads far enougth to be unsalvagable because she just killed the walker. She as part of the blame in both scenarios.
And about Dale I don't read the comics or watch the TV show, so I don't really care,
Dale got bitten. They amputated his limb, in a hour, and he not only survived the amputation but only died because he gets bitten again a few issues latter. So, yes, if Dale survived that then Sarita could have also survived.
He wasted time and the herd outside became bigger, they had no time for that bullshit and Kenny did it anyway because he was angry, seriousl… morey fuck all this Kenny justification if he hated Carver so much he should have just shot him and walked away staying and destroying his face was a pointless waste of time for petty reasons when there was no time to spare, while it wasn't directly his fault he's at least as much at fault as Clementine, so I don't get why people defend him on this, he had no right to blame anyone for anything when he's the one that put everyone at risk over something completely fucking stupid.
And about Dale I don't read the comics or watch the TV show, so I don't really care, given the circumstances she could not be saved, I mean you did try cutting her arm off right?
What happens is the only thing that could happen.
The number of times youve referenced Kenny doing something different due to choices, I thought we were clearly looking at the best case scenario for each charcater. You cant have it both ways, Kenny leaves clem if you chop the arm and axe sarita bonnie leaves clem if you cover Luke.
But the point is how it that different from Bonnie leaving her,
Like I said, Kenny did not leave Clem.
in some cases Mike drag… mores her away while she tries to pull back to see clem and help her.
What? Nope, not in some cases. Just in you go to save Luke. If you don´t, Mike is the one that triest to help you, and she goes:
Bonnie: Just leave her.
She only leaves when Kenny and Jane come out becuase the'll try to kill them
In the scenario where you go to help Luke. If you don´t help Luke, which is the issue here, she leaves Clem to bleed out withouth a care, out of pure spite.
Who knows? I think what ifs are a tad tiring to discuss as anythign could have happened and it doesn't matter anyway.
I'd like to think that Kenny would be adamant that they go to Wellington and bring AJ, I also think Jane would be more likely to side with Bonnie and Mike to go south. Essentially I think Clementine would have to decide who to follow.
Bonnie and Mike showed they want survival more than the baby and we know Jane saw it as a liability so I don't actually think they'd fight physically over it.
That Kenny made up his mind about Wellington doesn't mean he'd 100% force Mike, Bonnie and Arvo to follow if they just walked away.
… moreThe point was that they would have to let go of the car, if they didnt follow Kenny to north. Even if everyone else in the group disagreed with Kennys plan, he still plans to go north. What would he have done in the morning if Clementine doesnt want to go north (like my Clem didnt)?
Her actions lend to Sarita´s death, so is her fault. I am not saying is all her fault-Sarita could have not gotten herself bitten in the first place- but it was mostly Clem´s fault.
How was it Clementine's fault that Sarita died? Tell me that. Even you say it's Sarita's fault that she got bit.
That those were her only choices does not change anything.
This is an interactive video game where you make decisions. Those were the only choices we had at that moment.
Even if we accept that, you should also admit that Clem basically killed her.
I shouldn't have to do admit anything. Clementine did whatever she thought best. No matter what she does Sarita dies anyway with all the intent of saving her.
So you are blaming Clem for killing Sarita because she either cuts off Sarita's arm or she kills the walker?
Her actions lend to Sar… moreita´s death, so is her fault. I am not saying is all her fault-Sarita could have not gotten herself bitten in the first place- but it was mostly Clem´s fault.
What the heck do you want her to do?
That those were her only choices does not change anything.
Sarita got bit in the middle of a herd. She was good as gone at that point.
Even if we accept that, you should also admit that Clem basically killed her.
The number of times youve referenced Kenny doing something different due to choices, I thought we were clearly looking at the best case scenario for each charcater.
I am not looking at the best case scenario. I am looking at both scenarios for both characters.
You cant have it both ways, Kenny leaves clem if you chop the arm and axe sarita
Objection!
He doesn´t not leave her, like I have already explained.
bonnie leaves clem if you cover Luke.
Objection!
Is not just leaving Clem to die, is wainting Mike to not help her, and doing it all out of pure spite
What? Nope, not in some cases
"SIGH" Its kind of funny I knew you'd say that
The number of times youve referenced Kenny doing som… moreething different due to choices, I thought we were clearly looking at the best case scenario for each charcater. You cant have it both ways, Kenny leaves clem if you chop the arm and axe sarita bonnie leaves clem if you cover Luke.
Chop off her arm, in the middle of a walker herd, making her scream and draw the nearby walkers to her, getting her bitten.
Even you say it's Sarita's fault that she got bit.
Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm and she gets bitten as a result, those bites are all Clem´s fault.Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that the first time Sarita got bitten was Clem´s fault, just that when Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm and she gets bitten as a result, those bites are all Clem´s fault.
Not enougth explanation for you?
This is an interactive video game where you make decisions. Those were the only choices we had at that moment.
Wait, are we talking if Sarita´s death was the players fault or Clem´s fault?
Spoiler Alert: We were talking about Sarita´s death being Clem´s fault.
I shouldn't have to do admit anything. Clementine did whatever she thought best. No matter what she does Sarita dies anyway with all the intent of saving her.
Chop off her arm, in the middle of a walker herd, making her scream and attract the nearby walkers to her, getting her bitten.
Her actions lend to Sarita´s death, so is her fault. I am not saying is all her fault-Sarita could have not gotten herself bitten in the fir… morest place- but it was mostly Clem´s fault.
How was it Clementine's fault that Sarita died? Tell me that. Even you say it's Sarita's fault that she got bit.
That those were her only choices does not change anything.
This is an interactive video game where you make decisions. Those were the only choices we had at that moment.
Even if we accept that, you should also admit that Clem basically killed her.
I shouldn't have to do admit anything. Clementine did whatever she thought best. No matter what she does Sarita dies anyway with all the intent of saving her.
Kenny does leave her but whatever lets just leave that its clear were never gonna agree
And everything else yeah I agree thats what I said if you cover Luke she wants to leave clem to die and is happy to steal all the supplies, if you dont shes unhappy about it and wants to help clem when shes shot.
The number of times youve referenced Kenny doing something different due to choices, I thought we were clearly looking at the best case scen… moreario for each charcater.
I am not looking at the best case scenario. I am looking at both scenarios for both characters.
You cant have it both ways, Kenny leaves clem if you chop the arm and axe sarita
Objection!
He doesn´t not leave her, like I have already explained.
bonnie leaves clem if you cover Luke.
Objection!
Is not just leaving Clem to die, is wainting Mike to not help her, and doing it all out of pure spite
He wasn't bleeding enough from the bite to pass out. There would have been blood everywhere. Either the wound wasn't deep enough to transect any major blood vessels or they were missed.
Additional comment: I've had a minor blood vessel transected when I punched a window - it bled like a running faucet. The bite wasn't near severe enough to cause enough blood loss for him to pass out.
. Never read the comic, can't comment on Dale.
Dale ends up dying, but survives the amputation and for Issue 62 to Issue 66. However… more, he only dies because he gets bitten once again. Also, the amputation was not immediate. Did not take as long as Lee, but not immediately either.
The odds are he didn't - he had symptoms of infection for quite some time.
Before he gets his arm cut off. He could have passed out for blood lost, not for the bite.
He abandoned both Lee and Clementine even though I only disagreed with him twice. I backed him up against Larry, I agreed that it was time to move on, I took care of duck with food twice, water at the train, I saved him instead of Shawn, I helped him take care of the walker in the attic, etc etc.
The only time I didn't automatically kiss his ass was when he killed Larry and when he wanted to abandon Omid.
He let his petty bullshit get in the way of going to save a little girl. It wasn't about helping Lee it was about helping Clementine but that "good Christian man" couldn't get past his own selfish crap to see that.
Fine. You win whatever. I don't know why you are so adamant on pinning Sarita's death on Clementine. It does not change the fact that she got bit in the first place. It does not change the fact that the writers intended for Sarita to be just a plot device for Kenny's grief. It doesn't matter if it was Clementine's fault or not. The end result is that Sarita dies no matter what you do.
How was it Clementine's fault that Sarita died?
Chop off her arm, in the middle of a walker herd, making her scream and draw the nea… morerby walkers to her, getting her bitten.
Even you say it's Sarita's fault that she got bit.
Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm and she gets bitten as a result, those bites are all Clem´s fault.Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that the first time Sarita got bitten was Clem´s fault, just that when Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm and she gets bitten as a result, those bites are all Clem´s fault.
Not enougth explanation for you?
This is an interactive video game where you make decisions. Those were the only choices we had at that moment.
Wait, are we talking if Sarita´s death was the players fault or Clem´s fault?
Spoiler Alert: We were talking about Sarita´s death being Clem´s fault.
I shouldn't have to do admit anything. Clementine did whatever she thought best. No matt… [view original content]
They saw a car, with the doors open, key in the ignition, with lots of supplies in the trunk. It doesn't make sense to leave the car like this, unless they were in a hurry and had to leave, lets say because of walkers. Prior to The Stranger s debut, it made sense that the vehicle was abandoned.They put what they knew together, and came to the conclusion that it's either abandoned or somebody may or may not be coming back. They didn't have the time to wait around to see, and seeing as they had kids, and injured members with them, they had to take it.
Im not saying i wouldnt steal the supplies, im just saying its as "wrong" as Bonnie and Mike stealing all the supplies. I dont mind doing stuff which majority consider to be wrong, i just hate when people claim their actions are justified when its clearly wrong and then blame someone else for doing the very same thing.
Kenny wasn't planing to ditch his group
He would have left Arvo behind, Mike, Bonnie, Jane and even possibly Clementine behind if none of them wanted to go north (clem being only determinant one). It doesnt sounds like Kenny was part of the group anymore, he was willing to get everyone killed in hunt for a safe haven for AJ.
Kenny wouldn't let them take the car, because he got it running. They just met Arvo a few hours ago, whose group ambushed theirs, with the intent to rob them and kill them. Yeah, makes perfect sense for him to say "let bygones be bygones, come to my group, and become another mouth to feed." Oh my God, Kenny didn't steal the car from anyone, he got it runing by himself. It was his car. He planned to go to Wellington from the beginning of season 2, and so did Christa with Clem. He wasn't going to change his course of action because of a few people he just met a few days ago. Yes, in *your eyes *he wasn't, and it's such a terrible thing that he's worried about the safety of an infant isn't it.
This is more evidence of Kenny being shitty team player, or not being part of the team anymore. Do you think he would have left Clementine behind, if she didnt follow him to Wellington in the morning? (if Bonnie and Mike didnt do anything in night).
The point is that they didn't care about the survival of anyone in the group that they supposedly cared about but themselves. If Kenny was so dangerous, and they cared so much, they would have at least tried to take Clem and AJ to safety.. But they didn't, so clearly he wasn't as much of a threat as they said, or they just didn't give a shit like they pretended to. It wasn't a story, because several other people had heard of it. Christa thought it was legitimate, and Kenny's quote makes perfect sense, "where there's smoke, there's fire." Sounded a lot better than going down to Texas, to God know's where, or back to Howe's, when last time we saw it was infested with Walkers.
They knew, or atleast thought that Clementine wouldnt leave Kenny behind and the whole point of leaving was to get away from Kenny with the car. Kenny would not let Mike and Bonnie take AJ, as he was obsessed with keeping it safe.
Wellington was not based on factual evidence... We might aswell talk about religion here. People believe in things there is no evidence of.
By your standards maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that all the supplies were shared with the group. He didn't keep any supplies to h… moreimself.
They saw a car, with the doors open, key in the ignition, with lots of supplies in the trunk. It doesn't make sense to leave the car like this, unless they were in a hurry and had to leave, lets say because of walkers. Prior to The Stranger's debut, it made sense that the vehicle was abandoned.They put what they knew together, and came to the conclusion that it's either abandoned or somebody may or may not be coming back. They didn't have the time to wait around to see, and seeing as they had kids, and injured members with them, they had to take it.
Bonnie and Mike were with a group already, they were choosing to leave and steal from their own group at the worst possible time. Kenny wasn't planning to ditch his group, it was a genuine concern that they didn't know when they'd find more supp… [view original content]
I try to get a video where is more clear that Lee is paler when he has his arm cut off.
EDIT: I can´t find any youtuber who doesn´t mess with the brigthness settings at the start.
Who knows? I think what ifs are a tad tiring to discuss as anythign could have happened and it doesn't matter anyway.
I'd like to think t… morehat Kenny would be adamant that they go to Wellington and bring AJ, I also think Jane would be more likely to side with Bonnie and Mike to go south. Essentially I think Clementine would have to decide who to follow.
Bonnie and Mike showed they want survival more than the baby and we know Jane saw it as a liability so I don't actually think they'd fight physically over it.
You are correct, but she did say she wanted to stay around Clem. Even though I doubt it, I guess there is a chance she would have gone with them to Wellington if Clementine insisted she'd stick with Kenny.
Kenny stole from the Stranger and condemned them to death.
And how do you know Bonnie's reason for leaving? You dont, you are just assuming. Bonnie leaves no matter her feelings towards you, so you cant assume its because Clem didnt "help" luke.
I dont think Jane could have stayed with Kenny much longer. Not after what he did to Arvo at the house (not that she felt sorry for Arvo, but how Kenny behaved).
You are correct, but she did say she wanted to stay around Clem. Even though I doubt it, I guess there is a chance she would have gone with them to Wellington if Clementine insisted she'd stick with Kenny.
His son went missing while they were hunting. They went to search for him. And like i said before on this discussion, there were no signs of struggle, walkers, blood or anything that would indicate that the owners are dead.
Bonnie and Mike did this to ensure their own survival, which Kenny was threatening with his reckless and stubborn behaviour & decisions.
Just like how Kenny only thought about their groups survival while stealing from the Stranger, so did Bonnie, Mike and Arvo while stealing/taking back Arvo's supplies and stealing the car.
Kenny knew exactly what would happen if the owner ever came back. Lilly even mentions that "If they come back, then we're just monster who came out of the woods and ruined their lives" And this is exactly what happens.
The Stranger also left his car in the middle of the forest, on, at night, and with no one around. For all we know, the guys there could have… more died.
Bonnie tried to rob a car when she knew exactly who was still in the house and what would happen to them had they left.
Both situations are different, Clem cutting off Sarita's arm results in her death, so yeah Kenny can blame her. Bonnie on the other hand causes Luke's death by adding more weight to ice, which resulting in Luke drowning. Bonnie then proceeds to blame Clem for not going out there to help him, but if you go out there, he drowns due to the weight. Bonnie causing Luke's death is entirely different than Clem causing Sarita's. She had no real reason to blame Clem for Luke's death, she added the weight, he died due to her actions. Not Clem's.
Im not saying i wouldnt steal the supplies, im just saying its as "wrong" as Bonnie and Mike stealing all the supplies. I dont mind doing stuff which majority consider to be wrong, i just hate when people claim their actions are justified when its clearly wrong and then blame someone else for doing the very same thing.
Both are morally wrong, I'll give you that. But the difference that makes Bonnie and Mike's offense worse is that they were stealing from their own group. The Stranger is just that, a complete stranger who isn't apart of the group. Stealing from him isn't as bad as stealing from your own, who are on your side.
If they refused to go(Bonnie, Mike, and Jane. Arvo doesn't count because he's not part of the group) then yeah he'd leave them. But only if they didn't want to go, he wouldn't sneak around at night while everyone was sleeping, and be gone without a trace when everyone wakes up the next day. Clem might be determinant, but I can't see Kenny leaving Clem, I'd argue he might stay to convince her, or force Clem to go with him.
Everybody but Clem was being a shitty team player then. Nobody offered to help Kenny with the truck, I'm sure he could have used it. Bonnie was sulking, Mike was obsessing over Arvo, and Jane's the only exception because she was watching AJ. Kenny gets the truck running, and everyone thinks they get to decide where it goes even when they didn't contribute at all? Bullshit. No, I don't think he'd leave Clem, because she helped him, and because she's family, I think he'd be more inclined to either stay or force her to go.
They didn't even try. They only thought of themselves and nobody else, that's why they're in the wrong. No, he wouldn't let them take AJ while he was awake, but they were up when everyone was asleep, if they were so worried about Kenny being a threat, they very easily could have taken the baby. Kenny is the only one that's been a father, of course he's going to be more protective than most of AJ. The only one that is obsessive is Mike with Arvo, he was way too concerned about a guy he just met a few hours ago, who also led his group to kill/rob Mike's. I'm not addressing that last part of your comment.
They saw a car, with the doors open, key in the ignition, with lots of supplies in the trunk. It doesn't make sense to leave the car like th… moreis, unless they were in a hurry and had to leave, lets say because of walkers. Prior to The Stranger s debut, it made sense that the vehicle was abandoned.They put what they knew together, and came to the conclusion that it's either abandoned or somebody may or may not be coming back. They didn't have the time to wait around to see, and seeing as they had kids, and injured members with them, they had to take it.
Im not saying i wouldnt steal the supplies, im just saying its as "wrong" as Bonnie and Mike stealing all the supplies. I dont mind doing stuff which majority consider to be wrong, i just hate when people claim their actions are justified when its clearly wrong and then blame someone else for doing the very same thing.
Kenny wasn't planing to ditch his group
He would have lef… [view original content]
This whole Bonnie situation (see what I did there) is completely determinant. In my playthrough, she didn't blame me for Luke's death, nor did she tell Mike to leave me.
In my playthrough, Bonnie is still likeable. Sucks for you guys, I guess.
It's not Clem's fault. At least I don't think it is because Sarita must of done something to be bit in that herd. You can't say it's Clem fault because she is not Sarita. Even if you decide not to cut Sarita's arm ( like me ) is it still her fault?
he had no right to blame anyone for anything when he's the one that put everyone at risk over something completely fucking stupid.
T… morehe point it that Kenny thing, even if we accept what you are saying, is really indirectly. Clem took the decision herself, knowing the risks. Also, if we what to get this ridicolous logic going, Sarita´s death is Carlo´s fault for getting shot with a stray bullet, thus making Sarah scream thus drawing the walkers to them, thus serapathing the group. The point here is that Clem was there to take action, and she if she does then she basically kills Sarita. If not, the infection spreads far enougth to be unsalvagable because she just killed the walker. She as part of the blame in both scenarios.
And about Dale I don't read the comics or watch the TV show, so I don't really care,
Dale got bitten. They amputated his limb, in a hour, and he not only survived the amputation but only died because he… [view original content]
This post is bs. Lee waited till the infection made him pass out before cutting off the arm which was way too late. Plus if Clem does not chop off saritas arm she is in no way to blame for her death sinse the only alternative would have been amputation which would have killed her anyway because they were in the middle of the herd. Get your facts straight son
The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew,
And? What Clem did caused Sarita to die, regardless of her intentions.
… more by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
I don´t think so. Lee survived for a whle before he (determinantly) gets his arm cut off. And if you do cut off his arm, then his clear he only dies for blood loss. So, yes, Sarita could have survived that.
His son went missing while they were hunting. They went to search for him. And like i said before on this discussion, there were no signs of… more struggle, walkers, blood or anything that would indicate that the owners are dead.
Bonnie and Mike did this to ensure their own survival, which Kenny was threatening with his reckless and stubborn behaviour & decisions.
Just like how Kenny only thought about their groups survival while stealing from the Stranger, so did Bonnie, Mike and Arvo while stealing/taking back Arvo's supplies and stealing the car.
Kenny knew exactly what would happen if the owner ever came back. Lilly even mentions that "If they come back, then we're just monster who came out of the woods and ruined their lives" And this is exactly what happens.
Well funny you find that logic ridiculous 'cause I find yours to be ridiculous, Clementine does not cause Sarita's death there are only 2 things she can do and both end with Sarita's death because she was already bitten, it doesn't matter if Dale from the comics made it in a similar situation, because there isn't a way for Sarita to get out alive in this one, you either cut her arm and she panics and gets bit even more times or she dies from the bite, neither the bite or Sarita's reaction to Clementine's attempt to save her by amputation are her fault so Sarita's death isn't her fault.
Besides like Kenny has any right to judge anyone for something like that when Carlos tells him that rash actions have consequences he just yells bullshit as a response, so fuck that, he's just being a hipocrite, because by that logic then he is responsible for Walter and Alvin's deaths, so yeah whatever, don't know why people keep pretending that Kenny is in the right he makes lots of bad decisions and things that are just straight up wrong.
he had no right to blame anyone for anything when he's the one that put everyone at risk over something completely fucking stupid.
T… morehe point it that Kenny thing, even if we accept what you are saying, is really indirectly. Clem took the decision herself, knowing the risks. Also, if we what to get this ridicolous logic going, Sarita´s death is Carlo´s fault for getting shot with a stray bullet, thus making Sarah scream thus drawing the walkers to them, thus serapathing the group. The point here is that Clem was there to take action, and she if she does then she basically kills Sarita. If not, the infection spreads far enougth to be unsalvagable because she just killed the walker. She as part of the blame in both scenarios.
And about Dale I don't read the comics or watch the TV show, so I don't really care,
Dale got bitten. They amputated his limb, in a hour, and he not only survived the amputation but only died because he… [view original content]
Sarita died because she got bit. Sooooo.... basic deductive first grade logic implies that.... you can finish... I hope....
I'm starting to think you care more about "appearing to be right" than anything else. I've seen you backpedaling like this on several issues where it's obvious that you mean one thing, but you try to backpedal when you realize that you weren't correct, so that you can "appear" to be "not wrong."
There's nothing bad about being incorrect about something. Everybody is incorrect at times. How a person responds to being incorrect is a test of character though. The smart ones tend to quickly admit to their mistakes so that they can learn from them.
Sure. Clem's actions influence "where" Sarita will die, but not "whether" Sarita will die. Blaming Clem for Sarita's death either way is nonsensical since getting bit is "why" she died, and Clem had nothing to do with that.
And in mine. I said
If Sarita dies in the herd, it is Clem's fault
Whenever did I mention it was Clem's fault she got bit? It's her fault because she hacks of Sarita's herd in the middle of a herd.
Both are morally wrong, I'll give you that. But the difference that makes Bonnie and Mike's offense worse is that they were stealing from their own group. The Stranger is just that, a complete stranger who isn't apart of the group. Stealing from him isn't as bad as stealing from your own, who are on your side.
Mike wasnt really part of the group either. Even luke said that he tries too hard to be accepted. Bonnie didnt know Kenny that well either. And neither of them agreed with what Kenny was doing with the car and plan to go Wellington, or what he did to Arvo and was about to do. They simply didnt want to be in group with Kenny.
Clem might be determinant, but I can't see Kenny leaving Clem, I'd argue he might stay to convince her, or force Clem to go with him.
What do you think rest of the group (escpecially Jane) would have done, if Kenny tried to force Clementine to come with him?
Kenny gets the truck running, and everyone thinks they get to decide where it goes, when they didn't contribute at all? Bullshit. No I don't think he'd leave her, because she helped him, and because she's family, I think he'd be more inclined to either stay, or force her to go.
So Jane found the supplies, would it be justified if SHE decides who gets to eat and who doesnt? This is what i mean by team player. Kenny wasnt one. Kenny was the only one who knew about fixing cars anyway, as far as we know. ps. He only asked for Clems help anyway.
They didn't even try. They only thought of themselves, and nobody else, that's why they're in the wrong. No he wouldn't let them take AJ while he was awake, but they were up when everyone was asleep, if they were so worried about Kenny being a threat, they very easily could have taken the baby. Kenny is the only one that's been a father, of course he's going to be more protective than most of AJ. The only one that is obsessive is Mike with Arvo, he was way too concerned about a guy he just met a few hours ago, who also led his group to kill/rob Mike's. I'm not addressing that last part of your comment.
They didnt even try to get the keys from Kenny, why would they dare to try get a baby? Russians never had intentions to directly kill them. If the group died because they lost all ammo, then fair enough, but they would still have given them a fighting chance.
Wellington was pretty much like a religion to Kenny. Others just didnt share that belief of Wellington with him.
Im not saying i wouldnt steal the supplies, im just saying its as "wrong" as Bonnie and Mike stealing all the supplies. I dont mind doing st… moreuff which majority consider to be wrong, i just hate when people claim their actions are justified when its clearly wrong and then blame someone else for doing the very same thing.
Both are morally wrong, I'll give you that. But the difference that makes Bonnie and Mike's offense worse is that they were stealing from their own group. The Stranger is just that, a complete stranger who isn't apart of the group. Stealing from him isn't as bad as stealing from your own, who are on your side.
If they refused to go(Bonnie, Mike, and Jane. Arvo doesn't count because he's not part of the group) then yeah he'd leave them. But only if they didn't want to go, he wouldn't sneak around at night while everyone was sleeping, and be gone without a trace when everyone wakes up the next day. Clem might be determ… [view original content]
Yeah, i have no problem doing wrong. The problem is with people blaming others doing the same thing as they have done. Bunch of hypocrites with double standards.
Bonnie and Mike did this to ensure their own survival
1. Which would fuck over everyone else too
2. Kenny robbed for the group's su… morervival as well
If they come back, then we're just monster who came out of the woods and ruined their lives
This quote can apply to both situations
You said... that Sarita's death is Clem's fault. Sarita died because she got bit. Sooooo.... basic deductive first grade logic implies that.... you can finish... I hope....
It doesn´t imply anything, just want you want to think. Sarita dies because she got bit, yes, nobody is saying otherwise. But I am saying that Sarita gets bitten tree or four more times-I don´t remember of many, sue me- because Clem´s hacks off her arm in the middle of a walker herd is Clem fault for doing him in the first place, and she dies either for the blood loss or for the multiple bites. How is that not Clem´s fault? Please, tell me, because I honestly don´t get it.
I'm starting to think you care more about "appearing to be right" than anything else. I've seen you backpedaling like this on several issues where it's obvious that you mean one thing, but you try to backpedal when you realize that you weren't correct, so that you can "appear" to be "not wrong."
blinking blinking more more blinking
You said... that Sarita's death is Clem's fault.
Sarita died because she got bit. Sooooo.... basi… morec deductive first grade logic implies that.... you can finish... I hope....
I'm starting to think you care more about "appearing to be right" than anything else. I've seen you backpedaling like this on several issues where it's obvious that you mean one thing, but you try to backpedal when you realize that you weren't correct, so that you can "appear" to be "not wrong."
There's nothing bad about being incorrect about something. Everybody is incorrect at times. How a person responds to being incorrect is a test of character though. The smart ones tend to quickly admit to their mistakes so that they can learn from them.
Comments
No he wouldn't have let them take the car, which I don't blame him for. Without him there would be no car as he was the only one who bothered to try.
And yeah, you might be right that Kenny wouldn't listen to reason, but that doesn't matter since they don't even try. You could see in episode 4 that he didn't really give a damn that Jane left, I'm not so sure he would have been opposed if Bonnie and Mike openly wallked away.
That Kenny made up his mind about Wellington doesn't mean he'd 100% force Mike, Bonnie and Arvo to follow if they just left.
Except Walter, Kenny, Nick, Reggie, Mike, Alvin, Carlos, Wyatt, Vince, Russel, Arvo and AJ.
Well then he must have fucked up while rendering the video. Just compare the darkness of Clementines hoodie on those given time stamps.
In that case you are blaming Kenny for Lee's death? That still doesn't tell me who the 'them' was. No one else's death was directly influenced by the stranger.
The cause and effect of Kenny stealing the supplies and 'condemning them to death' is too far-fetched.
He wasted time and the herd outside became bigger, they had no time for that bullshit and Kenny did it anyway because he was angry, seriously fuck all this Kenny justification if he hated Carver so much he should have just shot him and walked away staying and destroying his face was a pointless waste of time for petty reasons when there was no time to spare, while it wasn't directly his fault he's at least as much at fault as Clementine, so I don't get why people defend him on this, he had no right to blame anyone for anything when he's the one that put everyone at risk over something completely fucking stupid.
And about Dale I don't read the comics or watch the TV show, so I don't really care, given the circumstances she could not be saved, I mean you did try cutting her arm off right?
What happens is the only thing that could happen.
The point was that they would have to let go of the car, if they didnt follow Kenny to north. Even if everyone else in the group disagreed with Kennys plan, he still plans to go north. What would he have done in the morning if Clementine doesnt want to go north (like my Clem didnt)?
The point it that Kenny thing, even if we accept what you are saying, is really indirectly. Clem took the decision herself, knowing the risks. Also, if we what to get this ridicolous logic going, Sarita´s death is Carlo´s fault for getting shot with a stray bullet, thus making Sarah scream thus drawing the walkers to them, thus serapathing the group. The point here is that Clem was there to take action, and she if she does then she basically kills Sarita. If not, the infection spreads far enougth to be unsalvagable because she just killed the walker. She as part of the blame in both scenarios.
Dale got bitten. They amputated his limb, in a hour, and he not only survived the amputation but only died because he gets bitten again a few issues latter. So, yes, if Dale survived that then Sarita could have also survived.
"SIGH" Its kind of funny I knew you'd say that
The number of times youve referenced Kenny doing something different due to choices, I thought we were clearly looking at the best case scenario for each charcater. You cant have it both ways, Kenny leaves clem if you chop the arm and axe sarita bonnie leaves clem if you cover Luke.
Who knows? I think what ifs are a tad tiring to discuss as anythign could have happened and it doesn't matter anyway.
I'd like to think that Kenny would be adamant that they go to Wellington and bring AJ, I also think Jane would be more likely to side with Bonnie and Mike to go south. Essentially I think Clementine would have to decide who to follow.
Bonnie and Mike showed they want survival more than the baby and we know Jane saw it as a liability so I don't actually think they'd fight physically over it.
How was it Clementine's fault that Sarita died? Tell me that. Even you say it's Sarita's fault that she got bit.
This is an interactive video game where you make decisions. Those were the only choices we had at that moment.
I shouldn't have to do admit anything. Clementine did whatever she thought best. No matter what she does Sarita dies anyway with all the intent of saving her.
I am not looking at the best case scenario. I am looking at both scenarios for both characters.
Objection!
He doesn´t not leave her, like I have already explained.
Objection!
Is not just leaving Clem to die, is wainting Mike to not help her, and doing it all out of pure spite
Chop off her arm, in the middle of a walker herd, making her scream and draw the nearby walkers to her, getting her bitten.
Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm and she gets bitten as a result, those bites are all Clem´s fault.Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that the first time Sarita got bitten was Clem´s fault, just that when Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm and she gets bitten as a result, those bites are all Clem´s fault.
Not enougth explanation for you?
Wait, are we talking if Sarita´s death was the players fault or Clem´s fault?
Spoiler Alert: We were talking about Sarita´s death being Clem´s fault.
Chop off her arm, in the middle of a walker herd, making her scream and attract the nearby walkers to her, getting her bitten.
Kenny does leave her but whatever lets just leave that its clear were never gonna agree
And everything else yeah I agree thats what I said if you cover Luke she wants to leave clem to die and is happy to steal all the supplies, if you dont shes unhappy about it and wants to help clem when shes shot.
I try to get a video where is more clear that Lee is paler when he has his arm cut off.
EDIT: I can´t find any youtuber who doesn´t mess with the brigthness settings at the start.
He wasn't bleeding enough from the bite to pass out. There would have been blood everywhere. Either the wound wasn't deep enough to transect any major blood vessels or they were missed.
Additional comment: I've had a minor blood vessel transected when I punched a window - it bled like a running faucet. The bite wasn't near severe enough to cause enough blood loss for him to pass out.
He abandoned both Lee and Clementine even though I only disagreed with him twice. I backed him up against Larry, I agreed that it was time to move on, I took care of duck with food twice, water at the train, I saved him instead of Shawn, I helped him take care of the walker in the attic, etc etc.
The only time I didn't automatically kiss his ass was when he killed Larry and when he wanted to abandon Omid.
He let his petty bullshit get in the way of going to save a little girl. It wasn't about helping Lee it was about helping Clementine but that "good Christian man" couldn't get past his own selfish crap to see that.
Fine. You win whatever. I don't know why you are so adamant on pinning Sarita's death on Clementine. It does not change the fact that she got bit in the first place. It does not change the fact that the writers intended for Sarita to be just a plot device for Kenny's grief. It doesn't matter if it was Clementine's fault or not. The end result is that Sarita dies no matter what you do.
Im not saying i wouldnt steal the supplies, im just saying its as "wrong" as Bonnie and Mike stealing all the supplies. I dont mind doing stuff which majority consider to be wrong, i just hate when people claim their actions are justified when its clearly wrong and then blame someone else for doing the very same thing.
He would have left Arvo behind, Mike, Bonnie, Jane and even possibly Clementine behind if none of them wanted to go north (clem being only determinant one). It doesnt sounds like Kenny was part of the group anymore, he was willing to get everyone killed in hunt for a safe haven for AJ.
This is more evidence of Kenny being shitty team player, or not being part of the team anymore. Do you think he would have left Clementine behind, if she didnt follow him to Wellington in the morning? (if Bonnie and Mike didnt do anything in night).
They knew, or atleast thought that Clementine wouldnt leave Kenny behind and the whole point of leaving was to get away from Kenny with the car. Kenny would not let Mike and Bonnie take AJ, as he was obsessed with keeping it safe.
Wellington was not based on factual evidence... We might aswell talk about religion here. People believe in things there is no evidence of.
But you do see the brightness difference? It may be something done on purpose in the game. Darker you know.
Jane did say that they should go back south.
You are correct, but she did say she wanted to stay around Clem. Even though I doubt it, I guess there is a chance she would have gone with them to Wellington if Clementine insisted she'd stick with Kenny.
The Stranger also left his car in the middle of the forest, on, at night, and with no one around. For all we know, the guys there could have died.
Bonnie tried to rob a car when she knew exactly who was still in the house and what would happen to them had they left.
I dont think Jane could have stayed with Kenny much longer. Not after what he did to Arvo at the house (not that she felt sorry for Arvo, but how Kenny behaved).
Jane also said... "When things start heading south, don't let them drag you down with them."
Just saying.
His son went missing while they were hunting. They went to search for him. And like i said before on this discussion, there were no signs of struggle, walkers, blood or anything that would indicate that the owners are dead.
Bonnie and Mike did this to ensure their own survival, which Kenny was threatening with his reckless and stubborn behaviour & decisions.
Just like how Kenny only thought about their groups survival while stealing from the Stranger, so did Bonnie, Mike and Arvo while stealing/taking back Arvo's supplies and stealing the car.
Kenny knew exactly what would happen if the owner ever came back. Lilly even mentions that "If they come back, then we're just monster who came out of the woods and ruined their lives" And this is exactly what happens.
Both situations are different, Clem cutting off Sarita's arm results in her death, so yeah Kenny can blame her. Bonnie on the other hand causes Luke's death by adding more weight to ice, which resulting in Luke drowning. Bonnie then proceeds to blame Clem for not going out there to help him, but if you go out there, he drowns due to the weight. Bonnie causing Luke's death is entirely different than Clem causing Sarita's. She had no real reason to blame Clem for Luke's death, she added the weight, he died due to her actions. Not Clem's.
"The English idiom “go south” has a distinct meaning related to something going wrong or worsening. "
Yeah, I know. I also know how Telltale likes to throw their wording around.
Both are morally wrong, I'll give you that. But the difference that makes Bonnie and Mike's offense worse is that they were stealing from their own group. The Stranger is just that, a complete stranger who isn't apart of the group. Stealing from him isn't as bad as stealing from your own, who are on your side.
If they refused to go(Bonnie, Mike, and Jane. Arvo doesn't count because he's not part of the group) then yeah he'd leave them. But only if they didn't want to go, he wouldn't sneak around at night while everyone was sleeping, and be gone without a trace when everyone wakes up the next day. Clem might be determinant, but I can't see Kenny leaving Clem, I'd argue he might stay to convince her, or force Clem to go with him.
Everybody but Clem was being a shitty team player then. Nobody offered to help Kenny with the truck, I'm sure he could have used it. Bonnie was sulking, Mike was obsessing over Arvo, and Jane's the only exception because she was watching AJ. Kenny gets the truck running, and everyone thinks they get to decide where it goes even when they didn't contribute at all? Bullshit. No, I don't think he'd leave Clem, because she helped him, and because she's family, I think he'd be more inclined to either stay or force her to go.
They didn't even try. They only thought of themselves and nobody else, that's why they're in the wrong. No, he wouldn't let them take AJ while he was awake, but they were up when everyone was asleep, if they were so worried about Kenny being a threat, they very easily could have taken the baby. Kenny is the only one that's been a father, of course he's going to be more protective than most of AJ. The only one that is obsessive is Mike with Arvo, he was way too concerned about a guy he just met a few hours ago, who also led his group to kill/rob Mike's. I'm not addressing that last part of your comment.
Thankfully in my playthough, she died under the ice for her brilliant move of turning herself and Luke into human ice cubes.
I think I had the best outcome personally. Funny part was that I felt kinda bad, until I found out she just betrays you later no matter what you do.
WellMike is debatable, he seems to like her, and she didn't seem to mind.
It's not Clem's fault. At least I don't think it is because Sarita must of done something to be bit in that herd. You can't say it's Clem fault because she is not Sarita. Even if you decide not to cut Sarita's arm ( like me ) is it still her fault?
This post is bs. Lee waited till the infection made him pass out before cutting off the arm which was way too late. Plus if Clem does not chop off saritas arm she is in no way to blame for her death sinse the only alternative would have been amputation which would have killed her anyway because they were in the middle of the herd. Get your facts straight son
1. Which would fuck over everyone else too
2. Kenny robbed for the group's survival as well
This quote can apply to both situations
Well funny you find that logic ridiculous 'cause I find yours to be ridiculous, Clementine does not cause Sarita's death there are only 2 things she can do and both end with Sarita's death because she was already bitten, it doesn't matter if Dale from the comics made it in a similar situation, because there isn't a way for Sarita to get out alive in this one, you either cut her arm and she panics and gets bit even more times or she dies from the bite, neither the bite or Sarita's reaction to Clementine's attempt to save her by amputation are her fault so Sarita's death isn't her fault.
Besides like Kenny has any right to judge anyone for something like that when Carlos tells him that rash actions have consequences he just yells bullshit as a response, so fuck that, he's just being a hipocrite, because by that logic then he is responsible for Walter and Alvin's deaths, so yeah whatever, don't know why people keep pretending that Kenny is in the right he makes lots of bad decisions and things that are just straight up wrong.
blinking blinking more more blinking
You said... that Sarita's death is Clem's fault.
Sarita died because she got bit. Sooooo.... basic deductive first grade logic implies that.... you can finish... I hope....
I'm starting to think you care more about "appearing to be right" than anything else. I've seen you backpedaling like this on several issues where it's obvious that you mean one thing, but you try to backpedal when you realize that you weren't correct, so that you can "appear" to be "not wrong."
There's nothing bad about being incorrect about something. Everybody is incorrect at times. How a person responds to being incorrect is a test of character though. The smart ones tend to quickly admit to their mistakes so that they can learn from them.
Sure. Clem's actions influence "where" Sarita will die, but not "whether" Sarita will die. Blaming Clem for Sarita's death either way is nonsensical since getting bit is "why" she died, and Clem had nothing to do with that.
Mike wasnt really part of the group either. Even luke said that he tries too hard to be accepted. Bonnie didnt know Kenny that well either. And neither of them agreed with what Kenny was doing with the car and plan to go Wellington, or what he did to Arvo and was about to do. They simply didnt want to be in group with Kenny.
What do you think rest of the group (escpecially Jane) would have done, if Kenny tried to force Clementine to come with him?
So Jane found the supplies, would it be justified if SHE decides who gets to eat and who doesnt? This is what i mean by team player. Kenny wasnt one. Kenny was the only one who knew about fixing cars anyway, as far as we know. ps. He only asked for Clems help anyway.
They didnt even try to get the keys from Kenny, why would they dare to try get a baby? Russians never had intentions to directly kill them. If the group died because they lost all ammo, then fair enough, but they would still have given them a fighting chance.
Wellington was pretty much like a religion to Kenny. Others just didnt share that belief of Wellington with him.
Yeah, i have no problem doing wrong. The problem is with people blaming others doing the same thing as they have done. Bunch of hypocrites with double standards.
Kenny steals = its necessary and ok
Bonnie and Mike steals = bitch and prick
It doesn´t imply anything, just want you want to think. Sarita dies because she got bit, yes, nobody is saying otherwise. But I am saying that Sarita gets bitten tree or four more times-I don´t remember of many, sue me- because Clem´s hacks off her arm in the middle of a walker herd is Clem fault for doing him in the first place, and she dies either for the blood loss or for the multiple bites. How is that not Clem´s fault? Please, tell me, because I honestly don´t get it.
Where?
No, seriously, were?