They could have yelled walker or anything like that. Instead they caused a firefight to begin.
What if the russians don´t get it? What if even Arvo doesn´t get it? Even the Cabin Group called the zombies lurkers, instead of walkers? What if when they were trying to make the russians understand Rebeca tries to bite somebody? They were under as much stress as the russians, and killing Rebeca before anything could happen could be seen as the best move or simply they did not think the russians could start firing the movement they heard a gunshot.
If she stayed, Kenny would have killed her.
Yes.
Dont deny this
I don´t. I just say that her reasons for leaving the group have nothing to do with Kenny going and killing her.
Mike probably talked to her and made her feel more sorry for Arvo so she didnt have problem with Arvo being with them. Kenny would have also left Arvo to die.
And?
They didnt have anything else but ammo and guns anyway.
What? What about the baby formula, for example?
Also, you can always find new stuff.
And? What are the chances that
If she wanted Clementine dead, she would have killed her.
She could have let Mike try to help her. She didn´t.
If they stayed behind to take care of Clem, Kenny would have murdered them both.
Yes. And? This is not the point. You are changing the subject again. The problem most have with Bonnie is that she lefts Clem to die out of spite. She did not go: 'Oh, I have to help her. Oops, here comes Kenny, better run.' She was like: 'Well, she just got shot rigth in front of me. Whatever. Hey, Mike, how dare you be a decent person and try to help her. Oops, here comes Kenny, better run.'
What could they have done?
They could have yelled walker or anything like that. Instead they caused a firefight to begin.
Boni… moree leaved because she did not want to look for Wellington, and because of Luke´s death, not because she thougth Kenny could just go and kill her. And still doesn´t make leaving Clem to bleed out of spite justifiable.
If she stayed, Kenny would have killed her. Dont deny this. Mike probably talked to her and made her feel more sorry for Arvo so she didnt have problem with Arvo being with them. Kenny would have also left Arvo to die.
Are you even reading yourself? In the Zombie Apocalypse, robbing somebody is the same as killing them. Do you honestly think they could have survived withouth supplies, out in the cold?
They didnt have anything else but ammo and guns anyway. Also, you can always find new stuff. Might aswell say that if Arvo's group didnt try to steal from them, they (clems … [view original content]
lementine does not cause Sarita's death there are only 2 things she can do and both end with Sarita's death because she was already bitten,
No. If you cut off her arm off, Sarita´s ends up death because Clem just cut her arm off, making her scream, attracting the walkers to her and getting her bitten again. She dies for the those bites that Clem causes, not for the origianl bite. If you don´t the infection spreads far enougth for Sarita to be unsalvageable. She his to blame in if you cutt her arm off and some part of the blame in you just kill the Walker..
it doesn't matter if Dale from the comics made it in a similar situation,
The point is that Sarita had a chance and you are all acting like she was dead and just didn´t know it.
because by that logic then he is responsible for Walter and Alvin's deaths, so yeah whatever, don't know why people keep pretending that Kenny is in the right he makes lots of bad decisions and things that are just straight up wrong.
Yes, he is inderectly responsible for Walter and (determinatly) Alvin´s deaths. Doesn´t change that it was the best thing he could do in that situation but yes, Kenny´s actions caused Carver to kill Walter and (determinantly) Alvin.
Well funny you find that logic ridiculous 'cause I find yours to be ridiculous, Clementine does not cause Sarita's death there are only 2 th… moreings she can do and both end with Sarita's death because she was already bitten, it doesn't matter if Dale from the comics made it in a similar situation, because there isn't a way for Sarita to get out alive in this one, you either cut her arm and she panics and gets bit even more times or she dies from the bite, neither the bite or Sarita's reaction to Clementine's attempt to save her by amputation are her fault so Sarita's death isn't her fault.
Besides like Kenny has any right to judge anyone for something like that when Carlos tells him that rash actions have consequences he just yells bullshit as a response, so fuck that, he's just being a hipocrite, because by that logic then he is responsible for Walter and Alvin's deaths, so yeah whatever, don't know why people keep pretending that Kenny is i… [view original content]
First, in some scenarios Mike drags Kenny away. Second, that he did not look back doesn´t mean he was deliberatibily leavin her. He obviously expected her to follow, and she did, but she stumbled agaist the herd of walkers and got lost.
Kenny does leave her but whatever lets just leave that its clear were never gonna agree
And everything else yeah I agree thats what I sai… mored if you cover Luke she wants to leave clem to die and is happy to steal all the supplies, if you dont shes unhappy about it and wants to help clem when shes shot.
And? First of all, it was a far better option that staying at Carver´s Camp,
kenny came up with the worst plan possible (worst then still staying at the camp for a while) that would have killed her certainly. jane had to downgraded it to an survivable plan.
he has no right whatsoever to blame anyone for getting her killed by trying to save her (chopping hand) and even less for not lowering her chance of survival at all. (killing the walker)
With what bandages, genious?
cut off a piece of clothing.
lace it around her arm.
done.
Too late for that, he can´t be sure Reggie is telling the truth, he knows (determinatly) that Lee died anyway. There are lots of reasons that you are ignoring.
why would reggie lie? why do you always start with the least likely assumption.
he knows that lee (idiot that he is) did not block the blood circulation and cut his arm off an eternity after he got bitten.
how do you know if it is to late, when he cuts off the arm right after they are out of the horde?
but I don´t see how a situation that never happens anyway proves Kenny is somehow responsible for Sarita´s death. Are you even serious?
this is about blaming someone.
in your previous comments you desperately try to blame clementine. when if you must blame someone it is obviously kenny. he endangered in the short time we saw them together serita's life three times. (wildly firing in the lodge, risking people firing in the truck, when he jumps out, his escape plan)
endangering someone deserves blame regardless if chance allows to overcome the danger.
he wanted to call the horde down on them even before he knew about the zombi camouflage
And? First of all, it was a far better optio… moren that staying at Carver´s Camp, but I don´t see how a situation that never happens anyway proves Kenny is somehow responsible for Sarita´s death. Are you even serious?
and nether stopped the blood circulation while among the horde
With what bandages, genious?
nor cut the arm off after.
Too late for that, he can´t be sure Reggie is telling the truth, he knows (determinatly) that Lee died anyway. There are lots of reasons that you are ignoring.
They considered themselves apart of the group up until they decided to steal from their own group. Kenny didn't know them that well either, but you didn't see him sneaking around, stealing all the supplies and taking the only vehicle. I don't care that Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave, they had a good reason to. What I'm mad about is that they attempted to steal all the supplies and the only truck, two actions that make them traitors.
I don't know because it's just speculation. I can't say I know how Kenny would act, or the rest of the group would act. I'm guessing is all. Kenny may very well understand why Clem doesn't want to go with him and be ok with that.. There's not much of a point discussing it.
No, because all she did was find the bag. Anyone can find a bag. The others were just preoccupied with Luke dying, Clem and Bonnie possibly freezing to death, and Kenny being pissed at Arvo/Mike defending Arvo etc. They could have at least offered. They weren't doing anything beneficial at that point, one is sulking, and the other is being weird with Arvo. Not that hard to go, "hey, is there something I can help with?" Seems that nobody even believed he could get the truck started, but when it does, they expect to have input. Clem doesn't know anything about cars either, but she still found a way to help. He only asks Clem, because he knows Clem will help him, how great would it have been if the others proved him wrong and asked to help? I think that would have been nice.
Keys are not a living, breathing, defenseless baby. If they were so wary of Kenny's "insanity", they would have tried to get the children to safety too. I know Luke would have. But Mike and Bonnie only care about themselves (and Arvo for some reason). Arvo shot Clem, and they both left her bleeding out in the snow with the guy who shot her.
Russians never had intentions to directly kill them.
You can't be serious. The whole group, save for Arvo at that point, wanted to kill Clem's group, after robbing them.
The only reason why nobody but Clem and Kenny knew about Wellington is because the rest of the members were either locked up in the pen at Howe's, or were busy running away from Carver. If word travels that far to people who didn't even know about one another (Christa, Clem and Kenny), then it's likely to be true. That doesn't make it like religion, there is no comparison between those two things.
Both are morally wrong, I'll give you that. But the difference that makes Bonnie and Mike's offense worse is that they were stealing from th… moreeir own group. The Stranger is just that, a complete stranger who isn't apart of the group. Stealing from him isn't as bad as stealing from your own, who are on your side.
Mike wasnt really part of the group either. Even luke said that he tries too hard to be accepted. Bonnie didnt know Kenny that well either. And neither of them agreed with what Kenny was doing with the car and plan to go Wellington, or what he did to Arvo and was about to do. They simply didnt want to be in group with Kenny.
Clem might be determinant, but I can't see Kenny leaving Clem, I'd argue he might stay to convince her, or force Clem to go with him.
What do you think rest of the group (escpecially Jane) would have done, if Kenny tried to force Clementine to come with him?
Kenny gets the truck running, … [view original content]
Fine. You win whatever. I don't know why you are so adamant on pinning Sarita's death on Clementine. It does not change the fact that she go… moret bit in the first place. It does not change the fact that the writers intended for Sarita to be just a plot device for Kenny's grief. It doesn't matter if it was Clementine's fault or not. The end result is that Sarita dies no matter what you do.
But she didn't have a chance every possible thing that could have been done would have ended in her death, so no, she didn't have a chance, she was in the middle of a herd of zombies and she got bit, at that moment she's dead because if you just get her out she dies from the bite and if you cut her arm she dies, even if she had some sort of super resistance to pain and hadn't screamed and gotten bitten again in that situation there was no way to stop the bleeding and they were still too far away from a place where they could stop to patch her up, so she would have bleeded out anyway, and if not she probably would have passed out from the pain and gotten bitten anyway, so NO there isn't a single thing that can be done to save her, the moment she's bitten she's dead and that's that, and there's no one that's to blame for her getting bitten, and cutting off her arm well at least she was trying to help her, like I said before Kenny put everyone's lives at risk for petty revenge so fuck him, he's the one guy who has no right to judge anyone.
lementine does not cause Sarita's death there are only 2 things she can do and both end with Sarita's death because she was already bitten,
… more
No. If you cut off her arm off, Sarita´s ends up death because Clem just cut her arm off, making her scream, attracting the walkers to her and getting her bitten again. She dies for the those bites that Clem causes, not for the origianl bite. If you don´t the infection spreads far enougth for Sarita to be unsalvageable. She his to blame in if you cutt her arm off and some part of the blame in you just kill the Walker..
it doesn't matter if Dale from the comics made it in a similar situation,
The point is that Sarita had a chance and you are all acting like she was dead and just didn´t know it.
because by that logic then he is responsible for Walter and Alvin's deaths, so yeah whatever, don't know why people keep pretending that Kenny is in the right he makes lots of bad decisio… [view original content]
But she didn't have a chance every possible thing that could have been done would have ended in her death,
There was a chance to get Sarita out of the herd in time. There was a chance she could have survived the amputation. There was a chance she could have lived.
But she didn't have a chance every possible thing that could have been done would have ended in her death, so no, she didn't have a chance, … moreshe was in the middle of a herd of zombies and she got bit, at that moment she's dead because if you just get her out she dies from the bite and if you cut her arm she dies, even if she had some sort of super resistance to pain and hadn't screamed and gotten bitten again in that situation there was no way to stop the bleeding and they were still too far away from a place where they could stop to patch her up, so she would have bleeded out anyway, and if not she probably would have passed out from the pain and gotten bitten anyway, so NO there isn't a single thing that can be done to save her, the moment she's bitten she's dead and that's that, and there's no one that's to blame for her getting bitten, and cutting off her arm well at least she was trying to help her, like I said before Kenny put everyone's… [view original content]
I don't care that Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave, they had a good reason to. What I'm mad about is that thy attempted to steal all the supplies, and only truck, two actions that make them traitors.
They were ensuring their own survival. It's stupid to risk your life for sake of being nice to others.
Seems that nobody even believed he could get the truck started, but when it does, they expect to have input. Clem doesn't know anything about cars either, but she still found a way to help. He only asks Clem, because he knows Clem will help him, how great would it have been if the others proved him wrong and asked to help? I think that would have been nice.
Because only Kenny was desperate enough to try something like that. You might remember his boat boner from 4th episode in first season.
No, because all she did was find the bag. Anyone can find a bag.
She still found the bad. If she claimed the bad as her own and didnt share it, the rest would have fought with her. Same with the car, except Bonnie and Mike tried to avoid directly killing anyone.
If they were so wary of Kenny's "insanity", they would have tried to get the children to safety too. I know Luke would have. But Mike and Bonnie only care about themselves(and Arvo for some reason). Arvo shot Clem, and they both left her bleeding out in the snow with the guy who shot her.
Well we can only speculate how much they cared about the baby. If Mike and Bonnie stayed there after Arvo shot Clem, Kenny would have just killed them both. Whats wrong with valuing your own life more than someone elses?
You can't be serious. The whole group, save for Arvo at that point, wanted to kill Clem's group, after robbing them.
No, they didnt. Arvo wanted his friends to back off and he sister was panicking also and wanted to back off.
Arvo
Speech=[Pickup2][Russian]["Buricko, Buricko, stop! Put your gun down! You don't want to do this!"]
Speech={FearA}{Body-A}Oh, shit! [Russian]["Nobody shoot, I don't want to die!"]
Maud
Speech=[Russian]{AngryB}{Body-AimGuns}["Are you out of your mind? What the hell do you think you're doing? You're going to get us all killed! Hey! You! Don't point that thing at me! Put it down! I said put it down!"]
Vitali
Speech=[Pickup2][Russian]["I don't like this. Just make them put their guns down, Arvo."]
Buricko
Speech=[Pickup2][Russian]["Yeah. If Arvo can't do it, then we'll handle it."]
Buricko and Vitali were the only ones who were hostile towards Clems group, and that is because they didnt drop their guns and they got impatient & nervous. Eventually Kenny or Clem triggers the firefight by shooting Rebecca and Buricko/Vitali starts shooting with the shotgun.
Just like religions, rumors spread and some choose to believe them.
They considered themselves apart of the group up until they decided to steal from their own group. Kenny didn't know them that well either, … morebut you didn't see him sneaking around, stealing all the supplies and taking the only vehicle. I don't care that Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave, they had a good reason to. What I'm mad about is that they attempted to steal all the supplies and the only truck, two actions that make them traitors.
I don't know because it's just speculation. I can't say I know how Kenny would act, or the rest of the group would act. I'm guessing is all. Kenny may very well understand why Clem doesn't want to go with him and be ok with that.. There's not much of a point discussing it.
No, because all she did was find the bag. Anyone can find a bag. The others were just preoccupied with Luke dying, Clem and Bonnie possibly freezing to death, and Kenny being pissed at Arvo/Mike defending Arvo etc. They could have at leas… [view original content]
He wasn't bleeding enough from the bite to pass out. There would have been blood everywhere. Either the wound wasn't deep enough to transect any major blood vessels or they were missed.
He wasn't bleeding enough from the bite to pass out. There would have been blood everywhere. Either the wound wasn't deep enough to transect… more any major blood vessels or they were missed.
Additional comment: I've had a minor blood vessel transected when I punched a window - it bled like a running faucet. The bite wasn't near severe enough to cause enough blood loss for him to pass out.
Kenny stealing from someone we don't know = Fine with me.
Bonnie and Mike taking from my group = Not okay.
-
And no I mean take, not steal. Stealing is when you take something that belongs to someone else and I can't honestly say the items they took bleonged to Clementine, Kenny and Jane any more than Mike, Bonnie and Arvo.
-
I don't think Kenny was wrong to steal the items in the car even though I disagreed with him, it's the apocalypse and we do what we must to protect our family.
Mike and Bonnie endangered my (Clementine's) family by taking everything. Note that I bold everything, had they just taken one of the bags and left then I would have let them.
Yeah, i have no problem doing wrong. The problem is with people blaming others doing the same thing as they have done. Bunch of hypocrites with double standards.
Kenny steals = its necessary and ok
Bonnie and Mike steals = bitch and prick
Only after they severed his arm - it eventually stopped dripping. You mentioned that the bite might have caused the blood loss necessary for him to pass out but they didn't have to bandage his arm until after they amputated his arm. He passes out and becomes too weak to move regardless of whether or not his arm is amputated. Seeing as the symptoms are the same regardless of the amputation we can reasonably conclude the amputation is not responsible for his declining physical condition.
He wasn't bleeding enough from the bite to pass out. There would have been blood everywhere. Either the wound wasn't deep enough to transect any major blood vessels or they were missed.
The bandage was dripping blood all the while.
kenny came up with the worst plan possible (worst then still staying at the camp for a while) that would have killed her certainly. jane had to downgraded it to an survivable plan. he has no right whatsoever to blame anyone for getting her killed by trying to save her (chopping hand) and even less for not lowering her chance of survival at all. (killing the walker)
Actually, it was Jane and Luke, not just Jane. Still better that staying at Carver´s Camp.
cut off a piece of clothing.
lace it around her arm.
done.
Just that very propable could not have worked.
why would reggie lie?
Why not? It’s not out of character for Carver to get...what’s the word... ‘‘Overzealous"
he knows that lee (idiot that he is) did not block the blood circulation
He doesn´t know that if he doesn´t come with Lee. And If he comes, with Lee is either Christa or Kenny who bandages Lee.
and cut his arm off an eternity after he got bitten.
They did not know it was a possibility.
how do you know if it is to late, when he cuts off the arm right after they are out of the horde?
Because Sarita could have died for blood lost and the trip to Parker´s round takes... Well, I don´t remember if the time is mentioned, but maybe half a hour.
(wildly firing in the lodge)
Okay, okay, what should he have done here?
(risking people firing in the truck, when he jumps out, his escape plan)
I aggre.
endangering someone deserves blame regardless if chance allows to overcome the danger.
And? First of all, it was a far better option that staying at Carver´s Camp,
kenny came up with the worst plan possible (worst then … morestill staying at the camp for a while) that would have killed her certainly. jane had to downgraded it to an survivable plan.
he has no right whatsoever to blame anyone for getting her killed by trying to save her (chopping hand) and even less for not lowering her chance of survival at all. (killing the walker)
With what bandages, genious?
cut off a piece of clothing.
lace it around her arm.
done.
Too late for that, he can´t be sure Reggie is telling the truth, he knows (determinatly) that Lee died anyway. There are lots of reasons that you are ignoring.
why would reggie lie? why do you always start with the least likely assumption.
he knows that lee (idiot that he is) did not block the blood circulation and cut his arm off an eternity after he got bitten.
how do y… [view original content]
Here's my personal opinion on the two:
Kenny stealing from someone we don't know = Fine with me.
Bonnie and Mike taking from my group … more= Not okay.
-
And no I mean take, not steal. Stealing is when you take something that belongs to someone else and I can't honestly say the items they took bleonged to Clementine, Kenny and Jane any more than Mike, Bonnie and Arvo.
-
I don't think Kenny was wrong to steal the items in the car even though I disagreed with him, it's the apocalypse and we do what we must to protect our family.
Mike and Bonnie endangered my (Clementine's) family by taking everything. Note that I bold everything, had they just taken one of the bags and left then I would have let them.
I wasn't angry when Kenny and Bonnie blamed Clem, they were grieving, but what got me angry is that she, with Mike and Arvo, try to steal all the supplies and leave in the truck, stealing the supplies of an infant may I remind you.
They were ensuring their own survival. It's stupid to risk your life for sake of being nice to others.
I can see why you like Jane.
And good thing he was so stubborn, because they wouldn't even have a truck they could try to steal had he not been.
Not the same thing. Finding a bag entails just looking around. Fixing a truck out in the cold is a lot more difficult to do on your own.
You think differently than me, but if I had a baby/child in my care, I would do anything in my power to protect them. Because they are depending on me, as the adult, to keep them safe.
If you ambush a group with your guns in plain view, you are willing to kill them if you don't get what you want. There was no way Clem's group was going to give up their supplies(if they even had any on them), and let the Russians walk away, and the Russians knew this, had they not, they wouldn't have their guns out. They panicked when they saw how angrily the group reacted, and that they were armed as well, that's why they started to backtrack, a shootout would obviously have a lot of casualties. If they truly had no intention to kill them they wouldn't have approached them with their guns.
Not dignifying that last bit with a proper response.
I don't care that Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave, they had a good reason to. What I'm mad about is that thy attempted to steal all the supp… morelies, and only truck, two actions that make them traitors.
They were ensuring their own survival. It's stupid to risk your life for sake of being nice to others.
Seems that nobody even believed he could get the truck started, but when it does, they expect to have input. Clem doesn't know anything about cars either, but she still found a way to help. He only asks Clem, because he knows Clem will help him, how great would it have been if the others proved him wrong and asked to help? I think that would have been nice.
Because only Kenny was desperate enough to try something like that. You might remember his boat boner from 4th episode in first season.
No, because all she did was find the bag. Anyone can find a bag.
She still found the bad. If she claimed the bad as her o… [view original content]
Even if there had been this mystical chance of impossible conditions to save Sarita that still doesn't excuse Kenny from being a hypocritical asshole and blaming Sarita's death on Clementine, specially when she's the closets thing to something he has left and the only one on his side in the entire group, so yeah whatever.
But she didn't have a chance every possible thing that could have been done would have ended in her death,
There was a chance to get… more Sarita out of the herd in time. There was a chance she could have survived the amputation. There was a chance she could have lived.
Not the same thing. Finding bag entails looking around. Fixing a truck out in the cold is a lot more difficult to do on your own.
The point was not sharing the resources with the group.
You think differently than me, but if I had a baby/child in my care, I would do anything in my power to protect them, because they are depending on me, as the adult, to keep them safe.
Well people are different. Your attitude would most likely get you killed and mine wouldnt.
If you ambush a group with your guns in plain view, you are willing to kill them if you don't get what they want. There was no way Clem's group was going to give up their supplies(if they even had any on them), and let the Russians walk away, and the Russians knew this, had they not, they wouldn't have their guns out. They panicked when they saw how angrily the group reacted, and that they were armed as well, that's why they started to backtrack, a shootout will have a lot of casualties. If they truly had no intention to kill them they wouldn't have approached them with their guns.
That was pretty stupid argument. What kind of idiots would try to steal from someone without using guns? Pretty much everyone has guns in za, so if you dont point gun at someone who you are trying to rob, you will die pretty fast.
Not dignifying that last bit with a proper response.
Christianity has been forced by sword, government, or with promises of afterlife. That is how it spread so widely. Wellington is pretty much the afterlife part, hope of redemption.
They were ensuring their own survival. It's stupid to risk your life for sake of being nice to others.
I can see why you like Jane.
… more
And good thing he was so stubborn, because they wouldn't even have a truck they could try to steal had he not been.
Not the same thing. Finding a bag entails just looking around. Fixing a truck out in the cold is a lot more difficult to do on your own.
You think differently than me, but if I had a baby/child in my care, I would do anything in my power to protect them. Because they are depending on me, as the adult, to keep them safe.
If you ambush a group with your guns in plain view, you are willing to kill them if you don't get what you want. There was no way Clem's group was going to give up their supplies(if they even had any on them), and let the Russians walk away, and the Russians knew this, had they not, they wouldn't have their guns out. They panicked when they saw how angrily the gro… [view original content]
Except, he only always apologises about a day after its happened, which is less time than Bonnie got.
Who knows, if we had spent another day with Bonnie she may have realised that blaming clem was wrong.
Only after they severed his arm - it eventually stopped dripping.
Ah, yes, it stopped dripping after the scene at the rooftop. Sorry, didn´t remember that.
He passes out and becomes too weak to move regardless of whether or not his arm is amputated. Seeing as the symptoms are the same regardless of the amputation we can reasonably conclude the amputation is not responsible for his declining physical condition.
Well, there a few diffrences if you don´t cut of his arm. When he is climbing the ladder, if you don´t cut off his arm off he passes out. If you do, he doesn´t. If you do´t cut off his arm he passes out again at the house. If you do, he doesn´t. I think that shows the amputation worked.
Only after they severed his arm - it eventually stopped dripping. You mentioned that the bite might have caused the blood loss necessary for… more him to pass out but they didn't have to bandage his arm until after they amputated his arm. He passes out and becomes too weak to move regardless of whether or not his arm is amputated. Seeing as the symptoms are the same regardless of the amputation we can reasonably conclude the amputation is not responsible for his declining physical condition.
Here's my personal opinion on the two:
Kenny stealing from someone we don't know = Fine with me.
Bonnie and Mike taking from my group … more= Not okay.
-
And no I mean take, not steal. Stealing is when you take something that belongs to someone else and I can't honestly say the items they took bleonged to Clementine, Kenny and Jane any more than Mike, Bonnie and Arvo.
-
I don't think Kenny was wrong to steal the items in the car even though I disagreed with him, it's the apocalypse and we do what we must to protect our family.
Mike and Bonnie endangered my (Clementine's) family by taking everything. Note that I bold everything, had they just taken one of the bags and left then I would have let them.
Hypocricy is when you say something and do the opposite. I say that I view it as bad when someone takes from my group but good when someone takes something for the group, how are those opposite?
It's the apocalypse and I don't blame people for stealing when they need to, even if I wouldn't do it myself; I do however blame people for treachery. I'm not mad at Bonnie and Mike for leaving and taking stuff, I'm mad at them for not leaving anything for those they left.
I think Kenny was wrong to take the items in the car too, but not because I think it was his action that was wrong, but because I could smell the stench of future trouble on that car.
You pointed it out.
When you steal to ensure your survival, its ok
When someone steals from you to ensure their survival, its wrong.
Do you know the definition of hypocrisy?
ps. Comments disappearing for some reason.
You say stealing is wrong, but understandable if you need to do it. This is exactly what Bonnie, Mike and Kenny did, but for some reason only Bonnie and Mike are evil. You are hypocritical.
Hypocricy is when you say something and do the opposite. I say that I view it as bad when someone takes from my group but good when someone … moretakes something for the group, how are those opposite?
It's the apocalypse and I don't blame people for stealing when they need to, even if I wouldn't do it myself; I do however blame people for treachery. I'm not mad at Bonnie and Mike for leaving and taking stuff, I'm mad at them for not leaving anything for those they left.
I think Kenny was wrong to take the items in the car too, but not because I think it was his action that was wrong, but because I could smell the stench of future trouble on that car.
You say stealing is wrong, but understandable if you need to do it. This is exactly what Bonnie, Mike and Kenny did, but for some reason only Bonnie and Mike are evil. You are hypocritical.
Kenny never said anything about not letting them in the car, he's just saying they don't get to dictate where the car goes, because they didn't contribute in fixing it. If anyone was denying resources, it was Bonnie and Mike by trying to steal it.
I'd rather die trying to protect those I love, then leave them and live as a spineless coward.
The point is that they followed and ambushed Clem's group with the intention of killing them if it didn't go their way. They came at them with guns, so to say they didn't have any intention to harm/kill them to get back their supplies is pretty stupid imo.
Now you're just being ridiculous, why do you have to bring religion into this argument. It has nothing to do with what we're discussing, and you yourself know I'm religious. This is why most people don't like talking with you.
Not the same thing. Finding bag entails looking around. Fixing a truck out in the cold is a lot more difficult to do on your own.
Th… moree point was not sharing the resources with the group.
You think differently than me, but if I had a baby/child in my care, I would do anything in my power to protect them, because they are depending on me, as the adult, to keep them safe.
Well people are different. Your attitude would most likely get you killed and mine wouldnt.
If you ambush a group with your guns in plain view, you are willing to kill them if you don't get what they want. There was no way Clem's group was going to give up their supplies(if they even had any on them), and let the Russians walk away, and the Russians knew this, had they not, they wouldn't have their guns out. They panicked when they saw how angrily the group reacted, and that they were armed as well, that's why they started to backtrack, a shootout wil… [view original content]
You're reading what you want man. I wrote clear as day that I don't blame them for stealing but for betraying the group's trust. There is nothing hypocritical about that.
I think stealing is not something I would do, but not because I view it as wrong (at least not in the world that they live in) but simply because I think it can, and often will, have unfortold consequences that I wouldn't want to risk.
You say stealing is wrong, but understandable if you need to do it. This is exactly what Bonnie, Mike and Kenny did, but for some reason only Bonnie and Mike are evil. You are hypocritical.
Bonnie was the one who WALKED OVER TO LUKE, BROKE THE ICE, AND GOT HIM LOST IN THE WATER TILL HE DROWNED! Clem was somewhat at fault for Sarita's horrible death, but that was ALL on Bonnie.
Kenny never said anything about not letting them in the car, he's just not saying they get to dictate where the car goes. If anyone was denying resources, it was Bonnie and Mike by trying to steal it.
Majority of the group (if Clem is included) doesnt want to go north and Kenny is saying the car is going north.
I'd rather die trying to protect those I love, then leave them, and live as a spineless coward.
Well i didnt love AJ, i didnt even care about him. I would look after those that i actually care about.
The came at them with guns, so to say they didn't have any intention to harm/kill them to get back their supplies is pretty stupid imo.
You still dont understand how robbery works.
Now you're just being ridiculous, why do you have to bring religion into this argument. It has nothing to do with what we're discussing, and you yourself know I'm religious. This is why most people don't like talking with you.
I was talking about Wellington and hope. I know you are religious person i thought you would understand my point.
Kenny never said anything about not letting them in the car, he's just saying they don't get to dictate where the car goes, because they did… moren't contribute in fixing it. If anyone was denying resources, it was Bonnie and Mike by trying to steal it.
I'd rather die trying to protect those I love, then leave them and live as a spineless coward.
The point is that they followed and ambushed Clem's group with the intention of killing them if it didn't go their way. They came at them with guns, so to say they didn't have any intention to harm/kill them to get back their supplies is pretty stupid imo.
Now you're just being ridiculous, why do you have to bring religion into this argument. It has nothing to do with what we're discussing, and you yourself know I'm religious. This is why most people don't like talking with you.
You're reading what you want man. I wrote clear as day that I don't blame them for stealing but for betraying the group's trust. There is nothing hypocritical about that.
The moment Kenny started to ignore what rest of the group said or wanted, they stopped being a group. Bonnie & Mike were thinking about whats best for their new group.
You're reading what you want man. I wrote clear as day that I don't blame them for stealing but for betraying the group's trust. There is no… morething hypocritical about that.
I think stealing is not something I would do, but not because I view it as wrong (at least not in the world that they live in) but simply because I think it can, and often will, have unfortold consequences that I wouldn't want to risk.
From the beginning, Kenny has said he's going to Wellington no matter what. He got the car running by himself, I think he has the right to decide where it goes. But he never said no one could come with him. He never threatened to leave them behind without their knowing.
AJ is a baby. It's not his fault he can't protect himself. He didn't ask to be born. Even if I don't love him, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try to protect him.
If you have guns and are willing to use them to rob a group, and you have to ambush them, you are willing to kill them and have the intention to. We aren't talking about a normal robbery, this is in the apocalypse where people aren't going to surrender their only supplies without a fight.
You are comparing people hearing about Wellington to religion, saying it's like rumors spreading. Or that people believing Wellington exists is like believing in religion, which there is no evidence of. How can you expect that not to bother me, when the discussion we're having had absolutely nothing to do with religion until you brought it up. I know you are an Atheist, but you don't see me saying that the people that don't believe Wellington lack faith, and won't get into Wellington, and will die because they don't believe. That sentence in itself is ridiculous, you can't compare people hearing about Wellington to people believing in God.
Kenny never said anything about not letting them in the car, he's just not saying they get to dictate where the car goes. If anyone was deny… moreing resources, it was Bonnie and Mike by trying to steal it.
Majority of the group (if Clem is included) doesnt want to go north and Kenny is saying the car is going north.
I'd rather die trying to protect those I love, then leave them, and live as a spineless coward.
Well i didnt love AJ, i didnt even care about him. I would look after those that i actually care about.
The came at them with guns, so to say they didn't have any intention to harm/kill them to get back their supplies is pretty stupid imo.
You still dont understand how robbery works.
Now you're just being ridiculous, why do you have to bring religion into this argument. It has nothing to do with what we're discussing, and you yourself know I'm religious. This is why most people don't like talking wit… [view original content]
She was bitten though, it wasn't going to be fixed unless Clem got the walker off her, you're saying either way is her fault, it isn't thoug… moreh. The walker bit, she did her best based on what she knew, by the time they got out of the herd it'd be too late to amputate it in safety
You're reading what you want man. I wrote clear as day that I don't blame them for stealing but for betraying the group's trust. There is no… morething hypocritical about that.
The moment Kenny started to ignore what rest of the group said or wanted, they stopped being a group. Bonnie & Mike were thinking about whats best for their new group.
From the beginning Kenny has said he's going to Wellington no matter what. He got the car running my himself, I think he has the right to decide where it goes. But he never said no one could come with him. He never threatened to leave them behind without their knowing.
And this is how groups work? This is exactly the reason why they had to steal the car. Kenny would leave 5 people behind just so he could go to Wellington.
AJ is a baby. It's not his fault he can't protect himself. Even if I don't love him, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try to protect him.
Yes, its not his fault, but life isnt fair.
If you have guns and are willing to use them to rob a group, and you have to ambush them, you are willing to kill them and have the intention to. We aren't talking about a normal robbery, this is in the apocalypse where people aren't going to surrender their only supplies without a fight.
thus the guns.
Someone heard about nice place (afterlife, Wellington) and he spread the word about it.
From the beginning, Kenny has said he's going to Wellington no matter what. He got the car running by himself, I think he has the right to d… moreecide where it goes. But he never said no one could come with him. He never threatened to leave them behind without their knowing.
AJ is a baby. It's not his fault he can't protect himself. He didn't ask to be born. Even if I don't love him, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try to protect him.
If you have guns and are willing to use them to rob a group, and you have to ambush them, you are willing to kill them and have the intention to. We aren't talking about a normal robbery, this is in the apocalypse where people aren't going to surrender their only supplies without a fight.
You are comparing people hearing about Wellington to religion, saying it's like rumors spreading. Or that people believing Wellington exists is like believing in religion, which there is no evidence of. H… [view original content]
No, you try to compromise and discuss it more in the morning. You rationalize your reasoning for wanting to go somewhere else. If things still don't go the way you want it to, you can go with them until you find another working car. Or if you want to leave now, then leave with some of the supplies. Don't steal all of the supplies and only car.
Life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean I'm going to leave a baby to die. I'm not heartless, I'll do what I can to save him.
Exactly. They ambushed them with the intention of taking back the supplies, and killing them if they didn't get what they want.
From the beginning Kenny has said he's going to Wellington no matter what. He got the car running my himself, I think he has the right to de… morecide where it goes. But he never said no one could come with him. He never threatened to leave them behind without their knowing.
And this is how groups work? This is exactly the reason why they had to steal the car. Kenny would leave 5 people behind just so he could go to Wellington.
AJ is a baby. It's not his fault he can't protect himself. Even if I don't love him, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try to protect him.
Yes, its not his fault, but life isnt fair.
If you have guns and are willing to use them to rob a group, and you have to ambush them, you are willing to kill them and have the intention to. We aren't talking about a normal robbery, this is in the apocalypse where people aren't going to surrender their only supplies without a fight.
thus… [view original content]
Kenny was able to get past it immediately, after he somewhat came to his senses and realized that she's a girl. He pretty much loves Clem as a daughter to some extent, and didn't mean his words as much.
Granted, Bonnie may come to regret her decision to blame Clem (Although it seemed rather unlikely in my opinion.), she sort of forced Mike to leave her after she was shot. Not that Mike was any better, because if you happen to actually do what Bonnie says, she won't hate you for Luke's death. Instead, Bonnie wants to stay and Mike is the one forcing her away from Clem. It's a complicated scenario, and maybe if we'd gotten more time with her instead of her running of with Arvo and Mike, then she'd be more sorry for the way she acted. It's a common thing even in today's society to blame other's for unavoidable disasters. (ie: Car crashes, accidents, even natural emergencies.) I honestly hated Bonnie more than Kenny at that point. At least Kenny (Despite his deteriorating mental state and bouts of irrational anger) wanted the best for her and AJ in the end. She's just an eleven year old girl. She doesn't even know what sex is yet. So I had decided, in the long run, that Bonnie was being irrational herself, thinking that an eleven year old girl could save a man in the situation they'd been in. All Clem did was try her best, and no matter what, it's not enough.
Comments
What if the russians don´t get it? What if even Arvo doesn´t get it? Even the Cabin Group called the zombies lurkers, instead of walkers? What if when they were trying to make the russians understand Rebeca tries to bite somebody? They were under as much stress as the russians, and killing Rebeca before anything could happen could be seen as the best move or simply they did not think the russians could start firing the movement they heard a gunshot.
Yes.
I don´t. I just say that her reasons for leaving the group have nothing to do with Kenny going and killing her.
And?
What? What about the baby formula, for example?
And? What are the chances that
She could have let Mike try to help her. She didn´t.
Yes. And? This is not the point. You are changing the subject again. The problem most have with Bonnie is that she lefts Clem to die out of spite. She did not go: 'Oh, I have to help her. Oops, here comes Kenny, better run.' She was like: 'Well, she just got shot rigth in front of me. Whatever. Hey, Mike, how dare you be a decent person and try to help her. Oops, here comes Kenny, better run.'
No. If you cut off her arm off, Sarita´s ends up death because Clem just cut her arm off, making her scream, attracting the walkers to her and getting her bitten again. She dies for the those bites that Clem causes, not for the origianl bite. If you don´t the infection spreads far enougth for Sarita to be unsalvageable. She his to blame in if you cutt her arm off and some part of the blame in you just kill the Walker..
The point is that Sarita had a chance and you are all acting like she was dead and just didn´t know it.
Yes, he is inderectly responsible for Walter and (determinatly) Alvin´s deaths. Doesn´t change that it was the best thing he could do in that situation but yes, Kenny´s actions caused Carver to kill Walter and (determinantly) Alvin.
How about...no.
First, in some scenarios Mike drags Kenny away. Second, that he did not look back doesn´t mean he was deliberatibily leavin her. He obviously expected her to follow, and she did, but she stumbled agaist the herd of walkers and got lost.
kenny came up with the worst plan possible (worst then still staying at the camp for a while) that would have killed her certainly. jane had to downgraded it to an survivable plan.
he has no right whatsoever to blame anyone for getting her killed by trying to save her (chopping hand) and even less for not lowering her chance of survival at all. (killing the walker)
cut off a piece of clothing.
lace it around her arm.
done.
why would reggie lie? why do you always start with the least likely assumption.
he knows that lee (idiot that he is) did not block the blood circulation and cut his arm off an eternity after he got bitten.
how do you know if it is to late, when he cuts off the arm right after they are out of the horde?
this is about blaming someone.
in your previous comments you desperately try to blame clementine. when if you must blame someone it is obviously kenny. he endangered in the short time we saw them together serita's life three times. (wildly firing in the lodge, risking people firing in the truck, when he jumps out, his escape plan)
endangering someone deserves blame regardless if chance allows to overcome the danger.
They considered themselves apart of the group up until they decided to steal from their own group. Kenny didn't know them that well either, but you didn't see him sneaking around, stealing all the supplies and taking the only vehicle. I don't care that Mike and Bonnie wanted to leave, they had a good reason to. What I'm mad about is that they attempted to steal all the supplies and the only truck, two actions that make them traitors.
I don't know because it's just speculation. I can't say I know how Kenny would act, or the rest of the group would act. I'm guessing is all. Kenny may very well understand why Clem doesn't want to go with him and be ok with that.. There's not much of a point discussing it.
No, because all she did was find the bag. Anyone can find a bag. The others were just preoccupied with Luke dying, Clem and Bonnie possibly freezing to death, and Kenny being pissed at Arvo/Mike defending Arvo etc. They could have at least offered. They weren't doing anything beneficial at that point, one is sulking, and the other is being weird with Arvo. Not that hard to go, "hey, is there something I can help with?" Seems that nobody even believed he could get the truck started, but when it does, they expect to have input. Clem doesn't know anything about cars either, but she still found a way to help. He only asks Clem, because he knows Clem will help him, how great would it have been if the others proved him wrong and asked to help? I think that would have been nice.
Keys are not a living, breathing, defenseless baby. If they were so wary of Kenny's "insanity", they would have tried to get the children to safety too. I know Luke would have. But Mike and Bonnie only care about themselves (and Arvo for some reason). Arvo shot Clem, and they both left her bleeding out in the snow with the guy who shot her.
You can't be serious. The whole group, save for Arvo at that point, wanted to kill Clem's group, after robbing them.
The only reason why nobody but Clem and Kenny knew about Wellington is because the rest of the members were either locked up in the pen at Howe's, or were busy running away from Carver. If word travels that far to people who didn't even know about one another (Christa, Clem and Kenny), then it's likely to be true. That doesn't make it like religion, there is no comparison between those two things.
But she didn't have a chance every possible thing that could have been done would have ended in her death, so no, she didn't have a chance, she was in the middle of a herd of zombies and she got bit, at that moment she's dead because if you just get her out she dies from the bite and if you cut her arm she dies, even if she had some sort of super resistance to pain and hadn't screamed and gotten bitten again in that situation there was no way to stop the bleeding and they were still too far away from a place where they could stop to patch her up, so she would have bleeded out anyway, and if not she probably would have passed out from the pain and gotten bitten anyway, so NO there isn't a single thing that can be done to save her, the moment she's bitten she's dead and that's that, and there's no one that's to blame for her getting bitten, and cutting off her arm well at least she was trying to help her, like I said before Kenny put everyone's lives at risk for petty revenge so fuck him, he's the one guy who has no right to judge anyone.
There was a chance to get Sarita out of the herd in time. There was a chance she could have survived the amputation. There was a chance she could have lived.
They were ensuring their own survival. It's stupid to risk your life for sake of being nice to others.
Because only Kenny was desperate enough to try something like that. You might remember his boat boner from 4th episode in first season.
She still found the bad. If she claimed the bad as her own and didnt share it, the rest would have fought with her. Same with the car, except Bonnie and Mike tried to avoid directly killing anyone.
Well we can only speculate how much they cared about the baby. If Mike and Bonnie stayed there after Arvo shot Clem, Kenny would have just killed them both. Whats wrong with valuing your own life more than someone elses?
No, they didnt. Arvo wanted his friends to back off and he sister was panicking also and wanted to back off.
Arvo
Speech=[Pickup2][Russian]["Buricko, Buricko, stop! Put your gun down! You don't want to do this!"]
Speech={FearA}{Body-A}Oh, shit! [Russian]["Nobody shoot, I don't want to die!"]
Maud
Speech=[Russian]{AngryB}{Body-AimGuns}["Are you out of your mind? What the hell do you think you're doing? You're going to get us all killed! Hey! You! Don't point that thing at me! Put it down! I said put it down!"]
Vitali
Speech=[Pickup2][Russian]["I don't like this. Just make them put their guns down, Arvo."]
Buricko
Speech=[Pickup2][Russian]["Yeah. If Arvo can't do it, then we'll handle it."]
Buricko and Vitali were the only ones who were hostile towards Clems group, and that is because they didnt drop their guns and they got impatient & nervous. Eventually Kenny or Clem triggers the firefight by shooting Rebecca and Buricko/Vitali starts shooting with the shotgun.
Just like religions, rumors spread and some choose to believe them.
The bandage was dripping blood all the while.
Here's my personal opinion on the two:
Kenny stealing from someone we don't know = Fine with me.
Bonnie and Mike taking from my group = Not okay.
-
And no I mean take, not steal. Stealing is when you take something that belongs to someone else and I can't honestly say the items they took bleonged to Clementine, Kenny and Jane any more than Mike, Bonnie and Arvo.
-
I don't think Kenny was wrong to steal the items in the car even though I disagreed with him, it's the apocalypse and we do what we must to protect our family.
Mike and Bonnie endangered my (Clementine's) family by taking everything. Note that I bold everything, had they just taken one of the bags and left then I would have let them.
Only after they severed his arm - it eventually stopped dripping. You mentioned that the bite might have caused the blood loss necessary for him to pass out but they didn't have to bandage his arm until after they amputated his arm. He passes out and becomes too weak to move regardless of whether or not his arm is amputated. Seeing as the symptoms are the same regardless of the amputation we can reasonably conclude the amputation is not responsible for his declining physical condition.
Actually, it was Jane and Luke, not just Jane. Still better that staying at Carver´s Camp.
Just that very propable could not have worked.
Why not? It’s not out of character for Carver to get...what’s the word... ‘‘Overzealous"
He doesn´t know that if he doesn´t come with Lee. And If he comes, with Lee is either Christa or Kenny who bandages Lee.
They did not know it was a possibility.
Because Sarita could have died for blood lost and the trip to Parker´s round takes... Well, I don´t remember if the time is mentioned, but maybe half a hour.
Okay, okay, what should he have done here?
I aggre.
Yes.
[removed]
I wasn't angry when Kenny and Bonnie blamed Clem, they were grieving, but what got me angry is that she, with Mike and Arvo, try to steal all the supplies and leave in the truck, stealing the supplies of an infant may I remind you.
I can see why you like Jane.
And good thing he was so stubborn, because they wouldn't even have a truck they could try to steal had he not been.
Not the same thing. Finding a bag entails just looking around. Fixing a truck out in the cold is a lot more difficult to do on your own.
You think differently than me, but if I had a baby/child in my care, I would do anything in my power to protect them. Because they are depending on me, as the adult, to keep them safe.
If you ambush a group with your guns in plain view, you are willing to kill them if you don't get what you want. There was no way Clem's group was going to give up their supplies(if they even had any on them), and let the Russians walk away, and the Russians knew this, had they not, they wouldn't have their guns out. They panicked when they saw how angrily the group reacted, and that they were armed as well, that's why they started to backtrack, a shootout would obviously have a lot of casualties. If they truly had no intention to kill them they wouldn't have approached them with their guns.
Not dignifying that last bit with a proper response.
Try to point out my hypocrisy in what I wrote, no one here takes your word for anything.
Even if there had been this mystical chance of impossible conditions to save Sarita that still doesn't excuse Kenny from being a hypocritical asshole and blaming Sarita's death on Clementine, specially when she's the closets thing to something he has left and the only one on his side in the entire group, so yeah whatever.
The point was not sharing the resources with the group.
Well people are different. Your attitude would most likely get you killed and mine wouldnt.
That was pretty stupid argument. What kind of idiots would try to steal from someone without using guns? Pretty much everyone has guns in za, so if you dont point gun at someone who you are trying to rob, you will die pretty fast.
Christianity has been forced by sword, government, or with promises of afterlife. That is how it spread so widely. Wellington is pretty much the afterlife part, hope of redemption.
You pointed it out.
When you steal to ensure your survival, its ok
When someone steal from you to ensure their survival, its wrong.
Do you know the definition of hypocrisy?
She leaves her half dead, on the ground right after getting shot.
I don't think an apolagy was coming.
Ah, yes, it stopped dripping after the scene at the rooftop. Sorry, didn´t remember that.
Well, there a few diffrences if you don´t cut of his arm. When he is climbing the ladder, if you don´t cut off his arm off he passes out. If you do, he doesn´t. If you do´t cut off his arm he passes out again at the house. If you do, he doesn´t. I think that shows the amputation worked.
The situations were completely different, so its unfair to blame Bonnie for still hating Clementine.
You pointed it out.
When you steal to ensure your survival, its ok
When someone steals from you to ensure their survival, its wrong.
Do you know the definition of hypocrisy?
ps. Comments disappearing for some reason.
Hypocricy is when you say something and do the opposite. I say that I view it as bad when someone takes from my group but good when someone takes something for the group, how are those opposite?
It's the apocalypse and I don't blame people for stealing when they need to, even if I wouldn't do it myself; I do however blame people for treachery. I'm not mad at Bonnie and Mike for leaving and taking stuff, I'm mad at them for not leaving anything for those they left.
I think Kenny was wrong to take the items in the car too, but not because I think it was his action that was wrong, but because I could smell the stench of future trouble on that car.
You say stealing is wrong, but understandable if you need to do it. This is exactly what Bonnie, Mike and Kenny did, but for some reason only Bonnie and Mike are evil. You are hypocritical.
What happened with the stranger's car is far from "exactly" what Mike and Bonnie did.
Kenny never said anything about not letting them in the car, he's just saying they don't get to dictate where the car goes, because they didn't contribute in fixing it. If anyone was denying resources, it was Bonnie and Mike by trying to steal it.
I'd rather die trying to protect those I love, then leave them and live as a spineless coward.
The point is that they followed and ambushed Clem's group with the intention of killing them if it didn't go their way. They came at them with guns, so to say they didn't have any intention to harm/kill them to get back their supplies is pretty stupid imo.
Now you're just being ridiculous, why do you have to bring religion into this argument. It has nothing to do with what we're discussing, and you yourself know I'm religious. This is why most people don't like talking with you.
In both situations, someone stole from someone else in order to survive.
You're reading what you want man. I wrote clear as day that I don't blame them for stealing but for betraying the group's trust. There is nothing hypocritical about that.
I think stealing is not something I would do, but not because I view it as wrong (at least not in the world that they live in) but simply because I think it can, and often will, have unfortold consequences that I wouldn't want to risk.
Clem literally chopped off Sarita's arm....
Bonnie was the one who WALKED OVER TO LUKE, BROKE THE ICE, AND GOT HIM LOST IN THE WATER TILL HE DROWNED! Clem was somewhat at fault for Sarita's horrible death, but that was ALL on Bonnie.
So yeah, she's a b*tch.
Majority of the group (if Clem is included) doesnt want to go north and Kenny is saying the car is going north.
Well i didnt love AJ, i didnt even care about him. I would look after those that i actually care about.
You still dont understand how robbery works.
I was talking about Wellington and hope. I know you are religious person i thought you would understand my point.
The moment Kenny started to ignore what rest of the group said or wanted, they stopped being a group. Bonnie & Mike were thinking about whats best for their new group.
From the beginning, Kenny has said he's going to Wellington no matter what. He got the car running by himself, I think he has the right to decide where it goes. But he never said no one could come with him. He never threatened to leave them behind without their knowing.
AJ is a baby. It's not his fault he can't protect himself. He didn't ask to be born. Even if I don't love him, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try to protect him.
If you have guns and are willing to use them to rob a group, and you have to ambush them, you are willing to kill them and have the intention to. We aren't talking about a normal robbery, this is in the apocalypse where people aren't going to surrender their only supplies without a fight.
You are comparing people hearing about Wellington to religion, saying it's like rumors spreading. Or that people believing Wellington exists is like believing in religion, which there is no evidence of. How can you expect that not to bother me, when the discussion we're having had absolutely nothing to do with religion until you brought it up. I know you are an Atheist, but you don't see me saying that the people that don't believe Wellington lack faith, and won't get into Wellington, and will die because they don't believe. That sentence in itself is ridiculous, you can't compare people hearing about Wellington to people believing in God.
Remember what Dr. Carlos said:
"Regardless of intent, there are consequences to rash actions"
No it didn't, no one ever said "we're done." If it worked like you say then the group would have been dissolved several times during season 2.
Why do people even care? None of your choices matter anyway.
And this is how groups work? This is exactly the reason why they had to steal the car. Kenny would leave 5 people behind just so he could go to Wellington.
Yes, its not his fault, but life isnt fair.
thus the guns.
Someone heard about nice place (afterlife, Wellington) and he spread the word about it.
No, you try to compromise and discuss it more in the morning. You rationalize your reasoning for wanting to go somewhere else. If things still don't go the way you want it to, you can go with them until you find another working car. Or if you want to leave now, then leave with some of the supplies. Don't steal all of the supplies and only car.
Life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean I'm going to leave a baby to die. I'm not heartless, I'll do what I can to save him.
Exactly. They ambushed them with the intention of taking back the supplies, and killing them if they didn't get what they want.
Kenny was able to get past it immediately, after he somewhat came to his senses and realized that she's a girl. He pretty much loves Clem as a daughter to some extent, and didn't mean his words as much.
Granted, Bonnie may come to regret her decision to blame Clem (Although it seemed rather unlikely in my opinion.), she sort of forced Mike to leave her after she was shot. Not that Mike was any better, because if you happen to actually do what Bonnie says, she won't hate you for Luke's death. Instead, Bonnie wants to stay and Mike is the one forcing her away from Clem. It's a complicated scenario, and maybe if we'd gotten more time with her instead of her running of with Arvo and Mike, then she'd be more sorry for the way she acted. It's a common thing even in today's society to blame other's for unavoidable disasters. (ie: Car crashes, accidents, even natural emergencies.) I honestly hated Bonnie more than Kenny at that point. At least Kenny (Despite his deteriorating mental state and bouts of irrational anger) wanted the best for her and AJ in the end. She's just an eleven year old girl. She doesn't even know what sex is yet. So I had decided, in the long run, that Bonnie was being irrational herself, thinking that an eleven year old girl could save a man in the situation they'd been in. All Clem did was try her best, and no matter what, it's not enough.