Well, if you cut off her arm, she either bleeds out, you axe Sarita, or the three more bites caused her to die. All of which are actions of Clementine and their consequences. How is that not her fault? Explain.
Sarita was already dead when she got bit. The root of Sarita's death is the bite. That is why she died. Clem is not responsible for the bite… more therefore she is not responsible for Sarita's death.
The only time Clementine is actually responsible for Sarita's death is when she plants the axe in Sarita's forehead.
I'm amazed that 8 people agree with you blaming a little girl for making a grown woman scream and get eaten by zombies.
The truth is, Cle… morem tried harder than anybody else to save Sarita. Especially Kenny, who fails to respect Sarita's wishes by amputating her limb when they're out of harm's way.
Neither of her actions directly lead to Sarita's death
Did you miss the part in which Sarita gets bitten tree more times after Clem … morecuts off her arm, did you miss the option you get to axe Sarita, did you miss that she could not have screamed and gotted killed if Clem did not cut off her arm in the middle of a walker herd?
The owners were not with the car, nor were the owner's whereabouts or status known to the group. The car was abandoned.
Mike and Bonnie stealing directly from people they knew is absolutely relevant in showing how different these situations are. You do see the difference, right? This is just arguments for arguments sake? I'm really hoping so.
The car situation is looting, something everyone has done in The Walking Dead - it's how people stay alive.
But the car wasnt abando… morened. The owners were in the forest, looking for a kid. They knew exactly what would happen, if the owners ever came back, yet they still took everything.
Mike and Bonnie stole supplies from people they knew while those people were there, with full knowledge of the implications of what they were doing.
This is irrelevant. They had to take care of their own group now, Kenny, Clementine, AJ and Jane werent part of it. You cant let your feelings get yourself killed in za. They were doing the most rational thing (goal being their survival) by stealing everything. If their priority wasnt their own survival, they would have helped Clementine after she got shot, but they left instead.
I say it's not Clem's fault if she does NOT axe her arm but instead the zombie's head. Clem IS partly responsible for the death of Sarita if she decides to chop her arm in the midst of the herd. The best course of action would have been to chop her ASAP upon escaping the herd alive. Which would have been at most possibly a half hour time window between the bite and amputation, then her survival might have been possible if that had taken place.
Of course at the time being the player you'd likely make the chop decision immediately with the intent of preventing the infection based off past knowledge and experience with the series as well as the show and comics not thinking of the herd danger surrounding you and everyone at the moment and hastily and rashly chopping her arm right then and there which like Carlos says there are consequences to rash actions. Realistically and logically Kenny should have found a way to chop Sarita's arm the moment they escaped out the herd.
Got to agree with that about Kenny being petty. I mean I agreed with Kenny in everything in my first season 1 game play-through (so I thought) and still he didn't want to help me find Clem. I must have disagreed with him one time and that was enough for him to dis me. But luckily I responded to Kenny with the "right words" to him when mentioning family and how close Clem was to Lee. But concealed the bite and thus Christa and Omid declined to help find the little girl. I told Ben to make his own decision and he chooses to stay behind.
He abandoned both Lee and Clementine even though I only disagreed with him twice. I backed him up against Larry, I agreed that it was time t… moreo move on, I took care of duck with food twice, water at the train, I saved him instead of Shawn, I helped him take care of the walker in the attic, etc etc.
The only time I didn't automatically kiss his ass was when he killed Larry and when he wanted to abandon Omid.
He let his petty bullshit get in the way of going to save a little girl. It wasn't about helping Lee it was about helping Clementine but that "good Christian man" couldn't get past his own selfish crap to see that.
Got to agree with that about Kenny being petty. I mean I agreed with Kenny in everything in my first season 1 game play-through (so I though… moret) and still he didn't want to help me find Clem. I must have disagreed with him one time and that was enough for him to dis me. But luckily I responded to Kenny with the "right words" to him when mentioning family and how close Clem was to Lee. But concealed the bite and thus Christa and Omid declined to help find the little girl. I told Ben to make his own decision and he chooses to stay behind.
Kenny got absolutely ripped apart on these forums after blaming Clem for Sarita's death. It was a huge deal up until the season finale was released. There is no double standard here..
I don't think the situations are the same anyway. Kenny's outburst was more along the lines of misplaced anger, where as Bonnie genuinely didn't even care about Clem getting shot with a hunting rifle.
No, they were looking for a kid in the forest and left the car alone.
Mike and Bonnie stealing directly from people they knew is absolutely relevant in showing how different these situations are.
Lee's group knew very well what would happen if the owners ever came back, so the intentions were the same. They both stole everything from someone else in order to ensure their own survival. Bonnie and Mike knowing for a fact that it would hurt someone is irrelevant. Only thing which is different here is what drew them to do this.
Mike and Bonnie did it because Kenny was going to leave them and most of the group behind, if they didnt choose to go north and Kenny would have left Arvo to die.
Kenny and Katjaa decided to steal because the group was starving, even though majority of the group is sceptical about the fate of the owners and Lee disagrees.
ps. Mike and Bonnie didnt steal from their group, they stole for their group. Nothing wrong with caring more about your group than others.
The owners were not with the car, nor were the owner's whereabouts or status known to the group. The car was abandoned.
Mike and Bonnie s… moretealing directly from people they knew is absolutely relevant in showing how different these situations are. You do see the difference, right? This is just arguments for arguments sake? I'm really hoping so.
They walked that path earlier that day and the car wasn't there. The light in the cab was still on, the keys were in the car, and the supplies were openly visible. They decided it was abandoned so they could justify taking the supplies.
The owners were not with the car, nor were the owner's whereabouts or status known to the group. The car was abandoned.
Mike and Bonnie s… moretealing directly from people they knew is absolutely relevant in showing how different these situations are. You do see the difference, right? This is just arguments for arguments sake? I'm really hoping so.
The group couldn't know what the owners of the car were doing, unlike Mike's band who had full knowledge. The car was left. Nobody was there. This is generally not done with supplies in a ZA unless the owners are dead. It was abandoned. Taking from the car was only a half hour wait away from taking from Everett's pharmacy. The fact that you have to use the word IF when talking about the owners coming back shows that. There was no IF in Mike and Arvo taking stuff. That is different and it is relevant and no amount of funnelling into basic simplistic terms makes it otherwise. Everyone who has existed in a zombie apocalypse this far has taken stuff that didn't belong to them initially but that does not make all actions the same, no more than all crimes are the same in real life.
The car was abandoned.
No, they were looking for a kid in the forest and left the car alone.
Mike and Bonnie stealing directly… more from people they knew is absolutely relevant in showing how different these situations are.
Lee's group knew very well what would happen if the owners ever came back, so the intentions were the same. They both stole everything from someone else in order to ensure their own survival. Bonnie and Mike knowing for a fact that it would hurt someone is irrelevant. Only thing which is different here is what drew them to do this.
Mike and Bonnie did it because Kenny was going to leave them and most of the group behind, if they didnt choose to go north and Kenny would have left Arvo to die.
Kenny and Katjaa decided to steal because the group was starving, even though majority of the group is sceptical about the fate of the owners and Lee disagrees.
ps. Mike and Bonnie didnt steal from their group… [view original content]
Ut if you help luke he still dies and she has the presence of mind in that situation to be gratful as you put it, shes still lost luke, he s… moretill died in sub zero water, but shes cool headed enough to be that way.. but if you cover luke, the thing he asks you to do and is the most sensible of all the options (no hindsight needed here) she doesnt just blame clem she treats her like some killer... atleast with kenny he raves at clem no matter what you do because hes hurting...
But either way ok lets say I can get over that for a second, but then she does a runner with the very person who is to blame for lukes death who then shoots clem and with no remorse she wants to havemit away on her toes...
Shes a bitch who carnt be trusted..... tbh arvo could not be with a better person as far as im concerned, she's a back stabing bitch.... she can rot in hell for all eternity for all I care..
The group couldn't know what the owners of the car were doing, unlike Mike's band who had full knowledge.
Yes, Mike and Bonnie knew what it would cause, Kenny & Katjaa (Lee) Knew what it could cause.
This is generally not done with supplies in a ZA unless the owners are dead.
There was no signs of blood, walkers or struggle. It was simply left alone.
There was no IF in Mike and Arvo taking stuff.
(the owners actually came back eventually, if you didnt realize this)
If they didnt do that, Kenny would have left everyone else behind who didnt follow him and he would have left Arvo to die. Kenny had no choice because they were starving, Mike and Bonnie had no choice because Kenny was going to either leave them behind with Arvo or take them with him and let Arvo die, so they could go north (where mike and Bonnie didnt want to go).
Everyone who has existed in a zombie apocalypse this far has taken stuff that didn't belong to them initially but that does not make all actions the same, no more than all crimes are the same in real life.
Theres no excuse to steal from someone else that would make it right. Sure you can have different reasons but it doesnt change anything. I would steal to ensure my survival, but i wouldnt be a hypocrite and call someone else immoral for doing the same thing to me.
The group couldn't know what the owners of the car were doing, unlike Mike's band who had full knowledge. The car was left. Nobody was there… more. This is generally not done with supplies in a ZA unless the owners are dead. It was abandoned. Taking from the car was only a half hour wait away from taking from Everett's pharmacy. The fact that you have to use the word IF when talking about the owners coming back shows that. There was no IF in Mike and Arvo taking stuff. That is different and it is relevant and no amount of funnelling into basic simplistic terms makes it otherwise. Everyone who has existed in a zombie apocalypse this far has taken stuff that didn't belong to them initially but that does not make all actions the same, no more than all crimes are the same in real life.
Bonnie is a calm, kind and trusting individual with no signs of mental instability and she is there to see what happens. There are a few differences in the situations that give her less right to be upset than Kenny.
Bonnie also WAITED for Clementine to come back and talk to her so she could bitch, while Kenny actively tried to avoid talking to anyone for a while because he just wanted to be alone for a while and calm down.
So, while I do not think either of them did something at all justified, I do think Bonnie is a bit more hate-worthy for hers.
Also, there was a massive uproar over Kenny's outburst on the forums where everyone seemed to forget all the good things he's done to talk about the one bad thing he did and how bad it made him. There's no double standard. But if there was, I think it would be somewhat justified.
Bonnie also WAITED for Clementine to come back and talk to her so she could bitch, while Kenny actively tried to avoid talking to anyone for a while because he just wanted to be alone for a while and calm down.
She was smoking outside. That's how people usually do it.
Also, there was a massive uproar over Kenny's outburst on the forums where everyone seemed to forget all the good things he's done to talk about the one bad thing he did and how bad it made him. There's no double standard. But if there was, I think it would be somewhat justified.
Funny...
You seem to forget all the good Bonnie did. She is the reason the group even managed to escape from Howe's. She possibly saved Kenny's life by distracting Carver with the walker breach warning, while Carver was beating Kenny to death.
Bonnie is a calm, kind and trusting individual with no signs of mental instability and she is there to see what happens. There are a few di… morefferences in the situations that give her less right to be upset than Kenny.
Bonnie also WAITED for Clementine to come back and talk to her so she could bitch, while Kenny actively tried to avoid talking to anyone for a while because he just wanted to be alone for a while and calm down.
So, while I do not think either of them did something at all justified, I do think Bonnie is a bit more hate-worthy for hers.
Also, there was a massive uproar over Kenny's outburst on the forums where everyone seemed to forget all the good things he's done to talk about the one bad thing he did and how bad it made him. There's no double standard. But if there was, I think it would be somewhat justified.
That's far too basic a view for me personally. It puts taking supplies from Everett's into the same category as holding up Clem's group at gunpoint and yet life just isn't as simplistic as that, even if that's the way you're claiming to process it.
The group couldn't know what the owners of the car were doing, unlike Mike's band who had full knowledge.
Yes, Mike and Bonnie knew … morewhat it would cause, Kenny & Katjaa (Lee) Knew what it could cause.
This is generally not done with supplies in a ZA unless the owners are dead.
There was no signs of blood, walkers or struggle. It was simply left alone.
There was no IF in Mike and Arvo taking stuff.
(the owners actually came back eventually, if you didnt realize this)
If they didnt do that, Kenny would have left everyone else behind who didnt follow him and he would have left Arvo to die. Kenny had no choice because they were starving, Mike and Bonnie had no choice because Kenny was going to either leave them behind with Arvo or take them with him and let Arvo die, so they could go north (where mike and Bonnie didnt want to go).
Everyone who has existed in a zombie apocalypse this far has taken st… [view original content]
Could you make proper sentences, which make more sense. It is kinda hard to read some of your messages.
He didnt like how Kenny treated A… morervo and after Kenny said he will leave Arvo to die and the truck goes north, (and also beating him more than once) Mike finally couldnt take shit from Kenny anymore and decided to leave. I dont see how Bonnie fits here, but i guess the writers decided that she had enough of Kenny's behaviour also.
That's far too basic a view for me personally. It puts taking supplies from Everett's into the same category as holding up Clem's group at gunpoint and yet life just isn't as simplistic as that, even if that's the way you're claiming to process it.
She was already dead before those things happened - her body just hadn't caught up yet.
Wow. Just wow. Are you serious? Not all bitten people will die. There his always a chance.
So I just going to repeat myself:
Did you miss the part in which Sarita gets bitten tree more times after Clem cuts off her arm, did you miss the option you get to axe Sarita, did you miss that she could not have screamed and gotted killed if Clem did not cut off her arm in the middle of a walker herd?
People usually say that it was ALL Bonnie´s fault in first place for them to get captured by Carver and she is nothing more than making up for her fuck up, while giving A LOT of credit to Kenny when he took Carver´s beating, "he sacrificed an eye for Clementine" bullshit, considering he also did the same thing, he just made up for the mistake of forcing Clementine to do the risky task of delivering the walkie-talkie.
Bonnie also WAITED for Clementine to come back and talk to her so she could bitch, while Kenny actively tried to avoid talking to anyone for… more a while because he just wanted to be alone for a while and calm down.
She was smoking outside. That's how people usually do it.
Also, there was a massive uproar over Kenny's outburst on the forums where everyone seemed to forget all the good things he's done to talk about the one bad thing he did and how bad it made him. There's no double standard. But if there was, I think it would be somewhat justified.
Funny...
You seem to forget all the good Bonnie did. She is the reason the group even managed to escape from Howe's. She possibly saved Kenny's life by distracting Carver with the walker breach warning, while Carver was beating Kenny to death.
while giving A LOT of credit to Kenny when he took Carver´s beating, "he sacrificed an eye for Clementine" bullshit, considering he also did the same thing, he just made up for the mistake of forcing Clementine to do the risky task of delivering the walkie-talkie.
This is something Kenny fans usually dont understand.
People usually say that it was ALL Bonnie´s fault in first place for them to get captured by Carver and she is nothing more than making up f… moreor her fuck up, while giving A LOT of credit to Kenny when he took Carver´s beating, "he sacrificed an eye for Clementine" bullshit, considering he also did the same thing, he just made up for the mistake of forcing Clementine to do the risky task of delivering the walkie-talkie.
Clementine's the protagonist.. she isn't just going to sit around and do nothing.That would obviously be terrible for the story. She is a team player, and very capable. She has done plenty of risky things before (several in that episode). She had a role to play. She was the best bet for sneaking around and getting Luke the radio.
People usually say that it was ALL Bonnie´s fault in first place for them to get captured by Carver and she is nothing more than making up f… moreor her fuck up, while giving A LOT of credit to Kenny when he took Carver´s beating, "he sacrificed an eye for Clementine" bullshit, considering he also did the same thing, he just made up for the mistake of forcing Clementine to do the risky task of delivering the walkie-talkie.
Clementine's the protagonist.. she isn't just going to sit around and do nothing.That would obviously be terrible for the story. She is a te… moream player, and very capable. She has done plenty of risky things before (several in that episode). She had a role to play. She was the best bet for sneaking around and getting Luke the radio.
What's your point? Troy came into the room and he was forced to make a decision. There wasn't even time to really talk about it.
It is completely out of character for Clementine to refuse to help. She has done riskier things before. The night before this incident she went on a riskier mission to find/steal the radios in the first place.
What's your point? Troy came into the room and he was forced to make a decision. There wasn't even time to really talk about it.
It is co… morempletely out of character for Clementine to refuse to help. She has done riskier things before. The night before this incident she went on a riskier mission to find/steal the radios in the first place.
Everyone in the group has put Clementine in danger at some point.. in the sense that they have her help out. She is a member of the group, and she always tries to pull her weight. Like I said before, it is 100% out of character for Clementine to refuse to help and to instead have someone do something for her. She isn't some helpless little kid. So yeah, you can technically argue that Kenny put her in danger by entrusting her to carry out the mission... but considering she does this sort of thing all the time it is pretty much inconsequential.
Of course Kenny did the natural right thing by taking the blame for the radio, that doesn't mean his actions were not heroic.
Everyone in the group has put Clementine in danger at some point.. in the sense that they have her help out. She is a member of the group, a… morend she always tries to pull her weight. Like I said before, it is 100% out of character for Clementine to refuse to help and to instead have someone do something for her. She isn't some helpless little kid. So yeah, you can technically argue that Kenny put her in danger by entrusting her to carry out the mission... but considering she does this sort of thing all the time it is pretty much inconsequential.
Of course Kenny did the natural right thing by taking the blame for the radio, that doesn't mean his actions were not heroic.
If you set a house on fire and extinguish it after, you're not a hero.
You're comparing trusting Clementine to carry out a mission to intentionally causing damage? That doesn't make any sense at all and you know it. If you don't want to go as far as to say Kenny is a hero, then fine, you can be that way, but Kenny deserves a nod for doing the right thing.
(As an aside, I find it so ironic that you're trying to be so self righteous about this, while you're actively arguing for abandoning a baby for survival reasons in a different thread..)
Kenny was risk taking by having Clem carry out the mission and he put her into harm's way, but she was simply being a team player. She was the best option. And once again I'll state that there was zero time to even discuss the matter, because Troy came into the room. You're ignoring the fact that the group had Clementine do something even more dangerous the night before, and she had NO problem with it. Also, you can't straight up refuse to take the radio, you can only suggest that Mike should do it. Clementine never says anything along the lines of refusing to do what Kenny wants.
Later in the episode she is forced to sneak into Carver's office to get the speakers working. There isn't even an option to insist otherwise there. You know why? Because Clementine is the protagonist... so of course she is going to be doing these things. It would just be silly to have her opt out.
3rd and 4th episode has more situations where you can refuse to do everything for others and finally look after yourself.
I suppose that is true to a minor extent. I'm not counting the radio issue, considering there really wasn't time for a discussion about it as Troy interrupted. The Sarah decision is a little different because its simply more of a personal moral decision. Jane basically wanted to bail immediately (surprise) and Luke gave up as well. Clem eventually giving up on her is different than straight up deciding not to want to be a help to the group.
I can't speak to the Bonnie-water situation as I seriously don't have time to go look up what happens in that scene when asking to not be forced to squeeze through the small opening. Either way, this is pretty minor by comparison.
Try to stay on the subject, Belan.
Of course Kenny did the natural right thing by taking the blame for the radio, that doesn't mean hi… mores actions were not heroic.
If you set a house on fire and extinguish it after, you're not a hero.
Like I said before, it is 100% out of character for Clementine to refuse to help and to instead have someone do something for her.
3rd and 4th episode has more situations where you can refuse to do everything for others and finally look after yourself.
Help Sarah or not?
Take walkie talkie or not?
Save Sarah or not?
Try to get the water or let Bonnie do it?
You are given plenty of times to be selfish, showing that Clementine doesnt have to be all nice and think whats best for others.
I can't speak to the Bonnie-water situation as I seriously don't have time to go look up what happens in that scene when asking to not be forced to squeeze through the small opening.
Bonnie sticks her hand trougth the gap, heards the walker, retracts her hand, gets a bruise on her eye and Mike breaks the door like normal.
Try to stay on the subject, Belan.
Oh please. How am I not?
If you set a house on fire and extinguish it after, you're not a h… moreero.
You're comparing trusting Clementine to carry out a mission to intentionally causing damage? That doesn't make any sense at all and you know it. If you don't want to go as far as to say Kenny is a hero, then fine, you can be that way, but Kenny deserves a nod for doing the right thing.
(As an aside, I find it so ironic that you're trying to be so self righteous about this, while you're actively arguing for abandoning a baby for survival reasons in a different thread..)
Kenny was risk taking by having Clem carry out the mission and he put her into harm's way, but she was simply being a team player. She was the best option. And once again I'll state that there was zero time to even discuss the matter, because Troy came into the room. You're ignoring the fact that the group had Clementine d… [view original content]
She was already dead before those things happened - her body just hadn't caught up yet.
Wow. Just wow. Are you serious? Not all bitt… moreen people will die. There his always a chance.
So I just going to repeat myself:
Did you miss the part in which Sarita gets bitten tree more times after Clem cuts off her arm, did you miss the option you get to axe Sarita, did you miss that she could not have screamed and gotted killed if Clem did not cut off her arm in the middle of a walker herd?
Comments
Well, if you cut off her arm, she either bleeds out, you axe Sarita, or the three more bites caused her to die. All of which are actions of Clementine and their consequences. How is that not her fault? Explain.
But she did.
Yes. Does change that Sarita died because of her.
What?
She was already dead before those things happened - her body just hadn't caught up yet.
The owners were not with the car, nor were the owner's whereabouts or status known to the group. The car was abandoned.
Mike and Bonnie stealing directly from people they knew is absolutely relevant in showing how different these situations are. You do see the difference, right? This is just arguments for arguments sake? I'm really hoping so.
I say it's not Clem's fault if she does NOT axe her arm but instead the zombie's head. Clem IS partly responsible for the death of Sarita if she decides to chop her arm in the midst of the herd. The best course of action would have been to chop her ASAP upon escaping the herd alive. Which would have been at most possibly a half hour time window between the bite and amputation, then her survival might have been possible if that had taken place.
Of course at the time being the player you'd likely make the chop decision immediately with the intent of preventing the infection based off past knowledge and experience with the series as well as the show and comics not thinking of the herd danger surrounding you and everyone at the moment and hastily and rashly chopping her arm right then and there which like Carlos says there are consequences to rash actions. Realistically and logically Kenny should have found a way to chop Sarita's arm the moment they escaped out the herd.
Got to agree with that about Kenny being petty. I mean I agreed with Kenny in everything in my first season 1 game play-through (so I thought) and still he didn't want to help me find Clem. I must have disagreed with him one time and that was enough for him to dis me. But luckily I responded to Kenny with the "right words" to him when mentioning family and how close Clem was to Lee. But concealed the bite and thus Christa and Omid declined to help find the little girl. I told Ben to make his own decision and he chooses to stay behind.
I got Christa, Omid, and Ben to join me. Kenny stayed behind.
Kenny got absolutely ripped apart on these forums after blaming Clem for Sarita's death. It was a huge deal up until the season finale was released. There is no double standard here..
I don't think the situations are the same anyway. Kenny's outburst was more along the lines of misplaced anger, where as Bonnie genuinely didn't even care about Clem getting shot with a hunting rifle.
Were you around after episode 4?
No, they were looking for a kid in the forest and left the car alone.
Lee's group knew very well what would happen if the owners ever came back, so the intentions were the same. They both stole everything from someone else in order to ensure their own survival. Bonnie and Mike knowing for a fact that it would hurt someone is irrelevant. Only thing which is different here is what drew them to do this.
Mike and Bonnie did it because Kenny was going to leave them and most of the group behind, if they didnt choose to go north and Kenny would have left Arvo to die.
Kenny and Katjaa decided to steal because the group was starving, even though majority of the group is sceptical about the fate of the owners and Lee disagrees.
ps. Mike and Bonnie didnt steal from their group, they stole for their group. Nothing wrong with caring more about your group than others.
They walked that path earlier that day and the car wasn't there. The light in the cab was still on, the keys were in the car, and the supplies were openly visible. They decided it was abandoned so they could justify taking the supplies.
The group couldn't know what the owners of the car were doing, unlike Mike's band who had full knowledge. The car was left. Nobody was there. This is generally not done with supplies in a ZA unless the owners are dead. It was abandoned. Taking from the car was only a half hour wait away from taking from Everett's pharmacy. The fact that you have to use the word IF when talking about the owners coming back shows that. There was no IF in Mike and Arvo taking stuff. That is different and it is relevant and no amount of funnelling into basic simplistic terms makes it otherwise. Everyone who has existed in a zombie apocalypse this far has taken stuff that didn't belong to them initially but that does not make all actions the same, no more than all crimes are the same in real life.
Yes, Mike and Bonnie knew what it would cause, Kenny & Katjaa (Lee) Knew what it could cause.
There was no signs of blood, walkers or struggle. It was simply left alone.
(the owners actually came back eventually, if you didnt realize this)
If they didnt do that, Kenny would have left everyone else behind who didnt follow him and he would have left Arvo to die. Kenny had no choice because they were starving, Mike and Bonnie had no choice because Kenny was going to either leave them behind with Arvo or take them with him and let Arvo die, so they could go north (where mike and Bonnie didnt want to go).
Theres no excuse to steal from someone else that would make it right. Sure you can have different reasons but it doesnt change anything. I would steal to ensure my survival, but i wouldnt be a hypocrite and call someone else immoral for doing the same thing to me.
Bonnie is a calm, kind and trusting individual with no signs of mental instability and she is there to see what happens. There are a few differences in the situations that give her less right to be upset than Kenny.
Bonnie also WAITED for Clementine to come back and talk to her so she could bitch, while Kenny actively tried to avoid talking to anyone for a while because he just wanted to be alone for a while and calm down.
So, while I do not think either of them did something at all justified, I do think Bonnie is a bit more hate-worthy for hers.
Also, there was a massive uproar over Kenny's outburst on the forums where everyone seemed to forget all the good things he's done to talk about the one bad thing he did and how bad it made him. There's no double standard. But if there was, I think it would be somewhat justified.
She was smoking outside. That's how people usually do it.
Funny...
You seem to forget all the good Bonnie did. She is the reason the group even managed to escape from Howe's. She possibly saved Kenny's life by distracting Carver with the walker breach warning, while Carver was beating Kenny to death.
That's far too basic a view for me personally. It puts taking supplies from Everett's into the same category as holding up Clem's group at gunpoint and yet life just isn't as simplistic as that, even if that's the way you're claiming to process it.
I guess you justcan't read then....
You just go on hatin' Kenny
Im just being objective instead of biased.
Your messages dont even make any sense most of the times.
Learn to form proper sentences.
Wow. Just wow. Are you serious? Not all bitten people will die. There his always a chance.
So I just going to repeat myself:
Everyone is biased. This is another naive misreading of human nature.
Sure, but that doesnt stop me from being objective.
Wow, I have no idea how to respond to that. Well played, sir.
People usually say that it was ALL Bonnie´s fault in first place for them to get captured by Carver and she is nothing more than making up for her fuck up, while giving A LOT of credit to Kenny when he took Carver´s beating, "he sacrificed an eye for Clementine" bullshit, considering he also did the same thing, he just made up for the mistake of forcing Clementine to do the risky task of delivering the walkie-talkie.
This is something Kenny fans usually dont understand.
Clementine's the protagonist.. she isn't just going to sit around and do nothing.That would obviously be terrible for the story. She is a team player, and very capable. She has done plenty of risky things before (several in that episode). She had a role to play. She was the best bet for sneaking around and getting Luke the radio.
Even if she wants Mike to have it, Kenny forces her to take it.
What's your point? Troy came into the room and he was forced to make a decision. There wasn't even time to really talk about it.
It is completely out of character for Clementine to refuse to help. She has done riskier things before. The night before this incident she went on a riskier mission to find/steal the radios in the first place.
The point was Kenny puts Clementine in danger and when he realizes his mistake and takes the blame, he is treated as hero.
Everyone in the group has put Clementine in danger at some point.. in the sense that they have her help out. She is a member of the group, and she always tries to pull her weight. Like I said before, it is 100% out of character for Clementine to refuse to help and to instead have someone do something for her. She isn't some helpless little kid. So yeah, you can technically argue that Kenny put her in danger by entrusting her to carry out the mission... but considering she does this sort of thing all the time it is pretty much inconsequential.
Of course Kenny did the natural right thing by taking the blame for the radio, that doesn't mean his actions were not heroic.
Try to stay on the subject, Belan.
If you set a house on fire and extinguish it after, you're not a hero.
3rd and 4th episode has more situations where you can refuse to do everything for others and finally look after yourself.
Help Sarah or not?
Take walkie talkie or not?
Save Sarah or not?
Try to get the water or let Bonnie do it?
You are given plenty of times to be selfish, showing that Clementine doesnt have to be all nice and think whats best for others.
Oh please. How am I not?
You're comparing trusting Clementine to carry out a mission to intentionally causing damage? That doesn't make any sense at all and you know it. If you don't want to go as far as to say Kenny is a hero, then fine, you can be that way, but Kenny deserves a nod for doing the right thing.
(As an aside, I find it so ironic that you're trying to be so self righteous about this, while you're actively arguing for abandoning a baby for survival reasons in a different thread..)
Kenny was risk taking by having Clem carry out the mission and he put her into harm's way, but she was simply being a team player. She was the best option. And once again I'll state that there was zero time to even discuss the matter, because Troy came into the room. You're ignoring the fact that the group had Clementine do something even more dangerous the night before, and she had NO problem with it. Also, you can't straight up refuse to take the radio, you can only suggest that Mike should do it. Clementine never says anything along the lines of refusing to do what Kenny wants.
Later in the episode she is forced to sneak into Carver's office to get the speakers working. There isn't even an option to insist otherwise there. You know why? Because Clementine is the protagonist... so of course she is going to be doing these things. It would just be silly to have her opt out.
I suppose that is true to a minor extent. I'm not counting the radio issue, considering there really wasn't time for a discussion about it as Troy interrupted. The Sarah decision is a little different because its simply more of a personal moral decision. Jane basically wanted to bail immediately (surprise) and Luke gave up as well. Clem eventually giving up on her is different than straight up deciding not to want to be a help to the group.
I can't speak to the Bonnie-water situation as I seriously don't have time to go look up what happens in that scene when asking to not be forced to squeeze through the small opening. Either way, this is pretty minor by comparison.
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Bonnie sticks her hand trougth the gap, heards the walker, retracts her hand, gets a bruise on her eye and Mike breaks the door like normal.
I get a headache from reading your messages. They are poorly formed and reading them is annoying.
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What?! Yes they do. Apart from literally immediate amputation
...
God, god.
It may seen like I am repeating myself to much, but Dale´s amputation was not 'literally immediate' and he only died because he got bitten again.