cutting of your arm does not help clem. the infection has obviously already spread and loosing an arm just makes you less capable to save her. (especially if you know you have to get up an elevator shaft right after)
should we give people really credit for stupidity? he did not even try to enter the next building and get there over the roofs.
killing a man with one arm is more a "could" then a "would" question.
walking through the walkers without a weapon is not that special if they ignore you.
why would one not want to get shot in the face when the alternative is becoming a zombi?
i would not do this things because i would not have to.
i would not let the girl in the believe her parents are still alive and then bring her to the city, where she thinks they can still be found.
i would talk with her about the man on the radio.
i would make a big deal about her just following me to the docks.
i would not blindly run into that walker hidingspot.
and if i would be bitten, i would if at all take my arm of immediately.
so on...
lee only solves problems he himself created. that is the least one can expect from him.
and also, it was the greatest sacrifice, your own life, for a little girl who is not even related to you, would you be willing to get bitten… more, cut off your arm, walk through a horde of walkers, with only a knife, kill a man with one arm, cover yourself in walker insides, walk through the walkers with no weapons, and let a little girl shoot you in the face? by your argument about lee, no, no you would not.
your life was already over.
what has not being related to do with anything?
he was already bitten.
cutting of your arm does not hel… morep clem. the infection has obviously already spread and loosing an arm just makes you less capable to save her. (especially if you know you have to get up an elevator shaft right after)
should we give people really credit for stupidity? he did not even try to enter the next building and get there over the roofs.
killing a man with one arm is more a "could" then a "would" question.
walking through the walkers without a weapon is not that special if they ignore you.
why would one not want to get shot in the face when the alternative is becoming a zombi?
i would not do this things because i would not have to.
i would not let the girl in the believe her parents are still alive and then bring her to the city, where she thinks they can still be found.
i would talk with her about the man on the… [view original content]
Bonnie was there to do recon. Even if Walter hadn't been nice to her, it wouldn't have prevented Carver shooting him in the head later, which was pure coincidence. He could've shot Sarita or even a cabin group member instead. For Carver it was just retributive justice because Kenny killed one of his men, so I guess he chose that one guy he didn't know.
We can blame Carver for actually pulling the trigger and Kenny for causing it, but not the fact that Walter was a nice man.
yeah they did, he invited bonnie in, instead of the rational thing, the 3 questions: 1, How many walkers have you killed. 2, How many people have you killed. 3, are you bitten or a threat to us? Rick, TWD S4
In Season 1, the one character I hated the most was... Y'know, I can't say I hated any of them. Sure, I disliked Larry, and never really cared much for Chuck, but I didn't hate any of them.
As for Season 2, I hated Troy. Not from how he was in the season, but for how he could have been. I hated how much of failed opportunity Troy was, as he was only pushed into the game so we can cheer for Jane when she popped a cap in his junk.I would have loved to see Troy be this complex side-villain, someone that trusted Carver too much yet completely disagreed with his methods. The writers of the 1st Season would have never included a character for us to hate deliberately. The closest they came to that was Ben, who most of us saved regardless of the designers taunting us with his stupidity.
No, he was not, when it got rough he responded with violence and threats and denial.
Give me examples. The whole "WAS NOT!" "WAS TOO!" style of argument is pointless.
And what do you mean by you got "rough"? Could you please be more specific than that? Kenny doesn't threaten you in season two, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't do it in season one either. The only time he responds to you with violence is if you state your will to fight with him on the train back during season one. He was obviously going through some issues there, though.
His outburst were every 10-15 minutes EVERY. FUCKING. EPISODE
That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Again, could you please add some substance to your ideas? Examples?
Oh Really? "Duck will not die! hes not like the others" "Maybe we could walk? Thats fucking stupid ben" "Lee you have never been there for me because you let ben live"
What part of "generally" did you not understand? He was wrong every now and then. Usually they were understandable, minor situations though.
"Maybe we could walk? Thats fucking stupid ben"
What kind of a example is that..? How does that point to Kenny being wrong about something? I mean, I guess it really doesn't matter.. just seems like a bizarre example.
Yeah it did! she was mentally breaking down and couldnt trust anyone! Carley/Doug/Ben SHOULD have known what she was going through, it doesn't make it any less wrong. but i forgive her for it, its Carley/Doug/Bens Fault!
I love you start this paragraph off by saying her depression made it okay to do what she did, but then you go on to say that her mental state doesn't make her actions "any less wrong". I don't even know what to argue against here because you have two very different opinions going on in the same paragraph. Want to pick one, please?
Kenny was generally a sensible man
No, he was not, when it got rough he responded with violence and threats and denial.
His ou… moretbursts were honestly few and far between
His outburst were every 10-15 minutes EVERY. FUCKING. EPISODE.
he was generally always right,
Oh Really? "Duck will not die! hes not like the others"
"Maybe we could walk? Thats fucking stupid ben"
"Lee you have never been there for me because you let ben live"
Her depression doesn't make it okay for her to murder someone because of mouthing off, or murder someone for stealing drugs.
Yeah it did! she was mentally breaking down and couldnt trust anyone! Carley/Doug/Ben SHOULD have known what she was going through, it doesn't make it any less wrong. but i forgive her for it, its Carley/Doug/Bens Fault! your whole fucking argument is STUPID! Kenny is worse than lilly! if not the same!
yeah, but who discovered it? lee did mothermucker! If lee AND the stranger died together, clem would have opened the door, been introduced to Mr. Asshole Outside, would have been bitten, and even if the she killed the walker, either lee or the stranger would come back and eat her, or she wouldn't have made it! Lee saved clem. and Lee is probably a better person than you FFS!
if it where not for luck. clem would be dead.
seriously. if lee not just happened to find out about the zombi camouflage, clem would be in a far worse situation, then with the stranger.
your life was already over.
what has not being related to do with anything?
he was already bitten.
cutting of your arm does not hel… morep clem. the infection has obviously already spread and loosing an arm just makes you less capable to save her. (especially if you know you have to get up an elevator shaft right after)
should we give people really credit for stupidity? he did not even try to enter the next building and get there over the roofs.
killing a man with one arm is more a "could" then a "would" question.
walking through the walkers without a weapon is not that special if they ignore you.
why would one not want to get shot in the face when the alternative is becoming a zombi?
i would not do this things because i would not have to.
i would not let the girl in the believe her parents are still alive and then bring her to the city, where she thinks they can still be found.
i would talk with her about the man on the… [view original content]
your life was already over.
what has not being related to do with anything?
he was already bitten.
cutting of your arm does not hel… morep clem. the infection has obviously already spread and loosing an arm just makes you less capable to save her. (especially if you know you have to get up an elevator shaft right after)
should we give people really credit for stupidity? he did not even try to enter the next building and get there over the roofs.
killing a man with one arm is more a "could" then a "would" question.
walking through the walkers without a weapon is not that special if they ignore you.
why would one not want to get shot in the face when the alternative is becoming a zombi?
i would not do this things because i would not have to.
i would not let the girl in the believe her parents are still alive and then bring her to the city, where she thinks they can still be found.
i would talk with her about the man on the… [view original content]
Lee didn't know whether cutting his arm off would work or not, at least try instead of giving up
You would do these things if you were pu… moret in the situation, but you're not because zombies don't exist,
Lee can say that her parents are dead, but then she says "Do you want them to be?'
It wasn't Lee's choice to head to Savvanah(I think I spelled that wrong) It was Kenny's
Lee does ask Clem and Ben how she would able to follow him up to the docks
Lee was going to talk with Clem about the guy on the radio, ben stopped him to tell that Kenny wouldn't come down from the attic
Lee didn't know there was a zombie behind the damn thing
You talk a big game, but that's it
Saving them risked her entire group, so her anger was understandable.
According to your own morals, not mine. There was children involved, and Lilly's group was in clear position to help.
You're ignoring the part where Lilly goes on to beg for their help even though she had just been chastising Carley for extending help unto them. Lilly wanted no part in helping these strangers, but she was quick to turn to turn them for help when it suited her.
They already had problem with food, and bringing more people in for sake of humanity could easily get them all killed from starvation/scavenging more supplies.
No one said anything about feeding them. Lilly came up with that all on her own. The whole point of bringing them back to the camp was to patch David up/ try to save his life. No one said they were going to share their food with them. Obviously Ben ended up staying because of David dying, but that wasn't the point at the time.
You seem to lack ability to tell the difference of whats rational and whats irrational, unless if you see dying as the priority.
You seem to lack the ability to comprehend the fact that NO ONE had said anything about feeding them. Lilly jumped to that conclusion all on her own, because she was going apeshit. I never argued about the rationality behind feeding them or not feeding them. Seriously, did you even read what I said. Go back and have another look.
She had lost her father, of course she was being irrational
It had been two weeks. It should not have been impacting her ability to think straight. The way she acts when debating about the Motor Inn is no different than how she acts at any other time during the series (as I have already detailed above). She is generally illogical and obstinate. The Motor Inn argument was not the first example of this (again, explained this above).
Just the as same with Kenny and plan to find Wellington. They both acted irrationally. Lilly because she just lost her father and he was possibly murdered by Kenny (debateable, lets not start anything on this one) And Kenny acted irrationally because he had lost all hope and getting AJ to safety was his priority. He was ignoring the fact that if there isnt Wellington or the place isnt standing still, they would most likely just die from the cold or starvation, AJ especially, since they didnt have any food left from him.
Kenny's plan was not irrational. We have gone over this many times. Traveling somewhere cold doesn't = suicide. As long as they travel during the day, keep themselves well supplied and fed (they had to have picked up supplies from somewhere, presumably a city), and find shelter in case of it getting too cold to travel, they should be fine. Illness would probably be their real enemy, not the cold in of itself. You live somewhere cold, right? You should understand these things. There was a level of risk, but there was also a high level of reward. As long as they were smart about it, they had every reason to be fine. And no, they would not have been screwed over in the case of Wellington refusing to take them in. If they made it that far already, why wouldn't they be able to go back? And furthermore, we don't even know how cold it was outside.
It wasn't even Lilly's irrationality that bothered me. It was the fact that even though common sense was basically slapping her across the face, she refused to give an inch. There was nothing to back up her arguments at all, but she still chose to be condescending, rude, and stubborn anyway.
Same could be said for Kenny's "baby killer Jane assumption"
No, the same thing could not be said at all. Not even remotely comparable situations. Just because assumptions are made doesn't mean the context is comparable. Obviously the context between these situations are incredibly different. And what Lilly said was just stupid in of itself anyway. Why the hell would Lee even follow up on the stolen drugs in the first place (all on his own) + agree to lead an investigation if he was the one stealing the drugs in the first place?
Sensible? No. He was living in denial after Duck was bitten. He wanted to search for boat, only form of transportation which would be used/stolen in first few days of za. He wanted to murder Ben because of a mistake. And then theres the moonstar lodge hostage situation, rambo truck plan, walker distraction with 2.40 minutes of time wasted because of Carver, plan to find Wellington, trying to kill Jane without being sure what happened. Kenny wasnt sensible man, he acted based on feelings rather than logic and rationality.
It's like we have never had a conversation before. I have gone over these things 234234234234219 times. I feel like I have done a decent job of explaining how they make sense, but hey, whatever. If you want to believe what you want to believe, that's fine. I think Kenny's actions were mostly sensible/logical. That is where the whole idea of "if you don't like Lilly you shouldn't like Kenny either" fails. Trust me, if Kenny was anything like Lilly I would not like him as much as I do.
No, he was being dictator just as much as Lilly was.
Nope. Want to try and give some examples?
Just like with Kenny, i understand his situation, but im not going to let that be an excuse to let him do what ever he wants.
Lilly's response to the supposed offense was beyond ridiculous, especially in the sense of her shooting Carley just because she mouthed off. Physically engaging someone for them killing your baby is a more appropriate/natural/expected response. These things can not be compared.
f they didnt stop him, Kenny would have killed Ben
Pure speculation on your part. I don't think he would have. I don't think he would have gone beyond roughing him up a little.
Just few minutes later he wants Lee to do his dirty work.
Hardly. He just gives Lee a sort of "Listen to him" kind of look and then walks away leaving Lee to make a decision completely on his own. Its not like he was there trying to persuade Lee to let him go.
You dont murder others based on assumption. Thats what Lilly did and you are against that, so why allow Kenny to do it? You seem pretty biased.
Explained this a paragraph or two above. Again.. you're being really black and white here.
Not group of people, just 2 he cares about. He caused Walter to die and didnt have any problems getting Alvin killed also.
The point is he was trying to save lives. It wasn't selfish. And he obviously cared about Walt. He wasn't indifferent to him dying.
When you meet her for the first time she flips out about Carley and Glenn saving two children + their families. She even states that she sho… moreuldn't have to care about them because of the fact that the walkers don't either.
Saving them risked her entire group, so her anger was understandable.
Her first appearance in episode two is her completely flipping out and being completely irrational about bringing injured David Parker and Ben over to the group's camp. Shes so worked about he control over food distribution that she refuses to listen to a word Kenny or Lee says about simply bringing them to the camp to treat David's wounds. Lilly literally gets all up in your face here and screams about "bringing more mouths to feed". She wasn't even problem solving, it was just incoherent ranting.
They already had problem with food, and bringing more people in for sake of humanity could easily get them all killed from starvation/scav… [view original content]
When Life was hard, you know that saying right?
"when the going gets rough?"
Kenny doesn't threaten you in season two, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't do it in season one either. The only time he responds to you with violence is if you state your will to fight with him on the train
Bullshit, Kenny may not have been a dick to clem, duck, sarita, or katjaa. but he was a dick to EVERYONE ELSE! it made me feel bad for the bad guys like, arvo, carver, and larry. (even though he wasn't a bad guy, just a dick.)
That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Again, could you please add some substance to your ideas? Examples?
Gladly, Outbusts as in, Sadness, Rage, Cursing at People, Threating people, And Dropping Salt Licks On Peoples Heads.
What part of "generally" did you not understand? He was wrong every now and then. Usually they were understandable, minor situations though.
He did the wrong thing EVERY episode! He Rarely Did anything Good, And He Thinks LEE was the bad guy when he asks ken to go with him? BULL... SHIT.
What kind of a example is that..? How does that point to Kenny being wrong about something? I mean, I guess it really doesn't matter.. just seems like a bizarre example.
Because ben was right! they could walk! But noooo, Kenny's about vehicles! First the Truck, Then the RV, then the train, Then the boat! (which is fucking retarded because EVERYONE TOOK THE BOATS!) And THEN the truck in S2 E5!!!
I love you start this paragraph off by saying her depression made it okay to do what she did, but then you go on to say that her mental state doesn't make her actions "any less wrong". I don't even know what to argue against here because you have two very different opinions going on in the same paragraph. Want to pick one, please?
Again, Gladly. Lilly was right to do what she did.
How old are you? Twelve?
No, I'm 15, I'm President of the debate club in school, and I Have a beautiful vice president, AKA my girlfriend.
No, he was not, when it got rough he responded with violence and threats and denial.
Give me examples. The whole "WAS NOT!" "WAS TOO… more!" style of argument is pointless.
And what do you mean by you got "rough"? Could you please be more specific than that? Kenny doesn't threaten you in season two, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't do it in season one either. The only time he responds to you with violence is if you state your will to fight with him on the train back during season one. He was obviously going through some issues there, though.
His outburst were every 10-15 minutes EVERY. FUCKING. EPISODE
That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Again, could you please add some substance to your ideas? Examples?
Oh Really? "Duck will not die! hes not like the others" "Maybe we could walk? Thats fucking stupid ben" "Lee you have never been there for me because you let ben live"
What part of "generally" did you not underst… [view original content]
Bonnie was there to do recon. Even if Walter hadn't been nice to her, it wouldn't have prevented Carver shooting him in the head later, whic… moreh was pure coincidence. He could've shot Sarita or even a cabin group member instead. For Carver it was just retributive justice because Kenny killed one of his men, so I guess he chose that one guy he didn't know.
We can blame Carver for actually pulling the trigger and Kenny for causing it, but not the fact that Walter was a nice man.
According to your own morals, not mine. There was children involved, and Lilly's group was in clear position to help.
Nothing to do with my moral values. Helping Lee's group put them all at risk.
No one said anything about feeding them. Lilly came up with that all on her own. The whole point of bringing them back to the camp was to patch David up/ try to save his life. No one said they were going to share their food with them. Obviously Ben ended up staying because of David dying, but that wasn't the point at the time.
After you have a kid with gunshot wound or a guy with leg cut off in your base, you cant just fix them in 1-2 days and send them off. Whats the point of helping, if you just let them to die from starvation before they can leave?
It had been two weeks. It should not have been impacting her ability to think straight. The way she acts when debating about the Motor Inn is no different than how she acts at any other time during the series (as I have already detailed above). She is generally illogical and obstinate. The Motor Inn argument was not the first example of this (again, explained this above).
Do you remember why she wanted to stay in the motor in? She didnt think it would be any better on the road and being in same car With Kenny didnt feel very appealing. First point was rather stupid, but i can understand that she didnt want to be stuck inside car with person who murdered her father (as she sees it).
Kenny's plan was not irrational. We have gone over this many times. Traveling somewhere cold doesn't = suicide.
If they had proper clothes and supplies for the trip, i would have been fine with a little trip in north... I love cold. However they didnt have any of that and Kenny was planning to leave Arvo behind and Mike wasnt going to allow this to happen.
As long as they travel during the day, keep themselves well supplied and fed (they had to have picked up supplies from somewhere, presumably a city),
If they actually prepared for the trip, i woud have been fine, but going there in that condition? no.
Illness would probably be their real enemy, not the cold in of itself. You live somewhere cold, right? You should understand these things. There was a level of risk, but there was also a high level of reward. As long as they were smart about it, they had every reason to be fine. And no, they would not have been screwed over in the case of Wellington refusing to take them in. If they made it that far already, why wouldn't they be able to go back? And furthermore, we don't even know how cold it was outside.
You do realize that all the diseases come from people, not the cold itself? Yes i live in rather cold area. Seen -45 degrees in my lifetime and that was a school morning. Like i said ealier in this message, if they prepared for the trip, i would have been fine, but Kenny wanted to go there right away, unprepared, in the night.
The trip as Kenny planned it was way too risky for my taste.
It wasn't even Lilly's irrationality that bothered me. It was the fact that even though common sense was basically slapping her across the face, she refused to give an inch. There was nothing to back up her arguments at all, but she still chose to be condescending, rude, and stubborn anyway.
Kenny had same problem with Duck, boats and other stuff. You seem to belittle the fact that they wanted her to go with a man she thought killed her father. Kenny wanted to murder Ben after he found out that people he loved died because of him. Lilly took her father's death slightly better, but after Ben started stealing supplies and she started the witch hunt, everything went to shit. That was her final breaking point.
And what Lilly said was just stupid in of itself anyway. Why the hell would Lee even follow up on the stolen drugs in the first place (all on his own) + agree to lead an investigation if he was the one stealing the drugs in the first place?
Lee was the only one she trusted at all?
Nope. Want to try and give some examples?
Right now i cant really think properly. Only thing that comes in my mind is "we are taking this stuff". (need some sleep).
Lilly's response to the supposed offense was beyond ridiculous, especially in the sense of her shooting Carley just because she mouthed off. Physically engaging someone for them killing your baby is a more appropriate/natural/expected response. These things can not be compared.
Both acted on assumption and their plan was to achieve something permanent. Its pretty irrelevant what they think someone was guilty of, because they both still wanted to murder someone because of that.
Pure speculation on your part. I don't think he would have. I don't think he would have gone beyond roughing him up a little.
"you are fucking dead, you hear me? Dead!" and then later ["Drop him, Lee" face] while Lee is holding Ben's arm. He obviously wanted him dead and if the group didnt stop him, why wouldnt he have done it himself?
And if you dont do as he wanted, he later says that they should have left Ben behind when they had a chance, and he gives the look to Lee again.
The point is he was trying to save lives. It wasn't selfish. And he obviously cared about Walt. He wasn't indifferent to him dying.
Yet he puts them in danger/gets them killed because he doesnt think about the consequences of his actions.
What about after Walter? If you dont say anything or stop him, he gets Alvin killed also.
Nothing could have stopped Carver from shooting Clementine after Kenny shot Johnny, if Clementine chose to stay "help" Carlos. He doesnt think about these kinds of things and thats what gets people killed.
Saving them risked her entire group, so her anger was understandable.
According to your own morals, not mine. There was children inv… moreolved, and Lilly's group was in clear position to help.
You're ignoring the part where Lilly goes on to beg for their help even though she had just been chastising Carley for extending help unto them. Lilly wanted no part in helping these strangers, but she was quick to turn to turn them for help when it suited her.
They already had problem with food, and bringing more people in for sake of humanity could easily get them all killed from starvation/scavenging more supplies.
No one said anything about feeding them. Lilly came up with that all on her own. The whole point of bringing them back to the camp was to patch David up/ try to save his life. No one said they were going to share their food with them. Obviously Ben ended up staying because of David dying, but that wasn't the point at th… [view original content]
i dont know if YOU saw it, but i saw somthing good in arvo, and its said that arvo was only 16, plus if you dont steal from arvo i see something there between them. (kinda)
I didn't steal from Arvo, that's why I was so mad at him in the first place! lol Since he said Clem stole even though it was all Jane.
Bu… moret hey, I respect your opinion. Maybe I should replay the episode and see if I can find what you're talking about.
actually check if the girl is just pretending to talk with someone on the radio,do not let her in the believe her parents are alive for months, do not enter the city she believes she can find them, make her afraid of the man on the radio, get someone to watch her, or lock her in a room...
come on! after just sneaking out in the zombi infested streets after him... how irresponsible can he be?
Actually Carver caused Pete's death too. It was heavily implied that Carver was behind the massacre at the river, and Pets got bit while investigating that crime scene.
why the hell do you give someone huge credit for being lucky?
we do not even know if lee would have made that connection. it was clementine that pointed out, he was covered in "that gross stuff". he might as well have assumed, they ignored him because, the infection has spread through his entire body.
you call that saving clem? taking her in the middle of a walker horde, when it is obvious you are going to pass out?
yeah, but who discovered it? lee did mothermucker! If lee AND the stranger died together, clem would have opened the door, been introduced t… moreo Mr. Asshole Outside, would have been bitten, and even if the she killed the walker, either lee or the stranger would come back and eat her, or she wouldn't have made it! Lee saved clem. and Lee is probably a better person than you FFS!
Lee didn't know whether cutting his arm off would work or not, at least try instead of giving up
why would you think it would work, when he was already passing out from it?
giving up on life or on saving clem? if he thinks he can amputate his own arm and then climb up a giant ladder, he might as well give up.
You would do these things if you were put in the situation
ridiculous.
Lee can say that her parents are dead, but then she says "Do you want them to be?'
after what? three months?
enough time to make a child accept their parents death. but lee did not think of that. he never thinks. he has to be told to do things.
and how could he possible expect her to accept it with a line like "your parents are dead. get over it." out of nowhere?
It wasn't Lee's choice to head to Savvanah(I think I spelled that wrong) It was Kenny's
and he just tags along anyway and supports that ridiculous notion, there is an realistic chance, they would find a boat.
Lee does ask Clem and Ben how she would able to follow him up to the docks
ask and what else? do you not get how dangerous that was? any even remote capable parent would not let that child out of sight, keep an guard on her or look her up, especially if it seems so likely she would do it again.
Lee was going to talk with Clem about the guy on the radio, ben stopped him to tell that Kenny wouldn't come down from the attic
explaining to her why you are taking the radio, is supposed to be the first thing you do when you take the radio.
Lee didn't know there was a zombie behind the damn thing.
yes. he never spots the obvious.
You talk a big game, but that's it
what is so big about it? this are the most basic things you should consider.
Lee didn't know whether cutting his arm off would work or not, at least try instead of giving up
You would do these things if you were pu… moret in the situation, but you're not because zombies don't exist,
Lee can say that her parents are dead, but then she says "Do you want them to be?'
It wasn't Lee's choice to head to Savvanah(I think I spelled that wrong) It was Kenny's
Lee does ask Clem and Ben how she would able to follow him up to the docks
Lee was going to talk with Clem about the guy on the radio, ben stopped him to tell that Kenny wouldn't come down from the attic
Lee didn't know there was a zombie behind the damn thing
You talk a big game, but that's it
Lee didn't know whether cutting his arm off would work or not, at least try instead of giving up
why would you think it would work, … morewhen he was already passing out from it?
giving up on life or on saving clem? if he thinks he can amputate his own arm and then climb up a giant ladder, he might as well give up.
You would do these things if you were put in the situation
ridiculous.
Lee can say that her parents are dead, but then she says "Do you want them to be?'
after what? three months?
enough time to make a child accept their parents death. but lee did not think of that. he never thinks. he has to be told to do things.
and how could he possible expect her to accept it with a line like "your parents are dead. get over it." out of nowhere?
It wasn't Lee's choice to head to Savvanah(I think I spelled that wrong) It was Kenny's
and he just tags along anyway and supports that ridiculous no… [view original content]
they set the bar really high?
there are countless possibilities to prevent it.
actually check if the girl is just pretending to talk w… moreith someone on the radio,do not let her in the believe her parents are alive for months, do not enter the city she believes she can find them, make her afraid of the man on the radio, get someone to watch her, or lock her in a room...
come on! after just sneaking out in the zombi infested streets after him... how irresponsible can he be?
So you would know that there's a zombie behind the pallet or whatever that thing was? No you wouldn't, because you played the game and know what'll happen next.
and I mean in real life you can't predict situations and always be right.
You're saying you wouldn't do these things because you already what'll happen, Lee didn't. That's real life.
what is the missing wor… mored? "predicted"?
yes, i would have predicted it, most people would.
what is real life? cutting of your arm and then climbing up that elevator shaft?
So you would know that there's a zombie behind the pallet or whatever that thing was? No you wouldn't, because you played the game and know what'll happen next.
and I mean in real life you can't predict situations and always be right.
Really? Lee's only concern when he got bit was finding Clem, and the choice to cut his arm off was there because he thought that he would lose the infection or buy him more time to save Clem. And know one knew how zombie bite would work.
Season 1: Lilly for shooting Carly. If I would have had the option to kill her dead right there I would have.
Season 2: Arvo. I hated Carver too, but with Arvo it is a different kind of hate. I did my best to try and show him that Clem is a good person and stood up for him when I felt like he was being wronged and the fucker shot Clem out of spite for a stupid reason. Fuck Arvo. I hope he dies in a fire.
Comments
Kenny, yes. But Lee freakin' Everett? I really hope you're kidding.
i would have not put her in that position in the first place.
your life was already over.
what has not being related to do with anything?
he was already bitten.
cutting of your arm does not help clem. the infection has obviously already spread and loosing an arm just makes you less capable to save her. (especially if you know you have to get up an elevator shaft right after)
should we give people really credit for stupidity? he did not even try to enter the next building and get there over the roofs.
killing a man with one arm is more a "could" then a "would" question.
walking through the walkers without a weapon is not that special if they ignore you.
why would one not want to get shot in the face when the alternative is becoming a zombi?
i would not do this things because i would not have to.
i would not let the girl in the believe her parents are still alive and then bring her to the city, where she thinks they can still be found.
i would talk with her about the man on the radio.
i would make a big deal about her just following me to the docks.
i would not blindly run into that walker hidingspot.
and if i would be bitten, i would if at all take my arm of immediately.
so on...
lee only solves problems he himself created. that is the least one can expect from him.
why do people always assume that just because someone questions something, everyone assumes to be a fact without sufficient reason.
lee is not you. lee is you with limited options.
if it where not for luck. clem would be dead.
seriously. if lee not just happened to find out about the zombi camouflage, clem would be in a far worse situation, then with the stranger.
?
Lee didn't know whether cutting his arm off would work or not, at least try instead of giving up
You would do these things if you were put in the situation, but you're not because zombies don't exist,
Lee can say that her parents are dead, but then she says "Do you want them to be?'
It wasn't Lee's choice to head to Savvanah(I think I spelled that wrong) It was Kenny's
Lee does ask Clem and Ben how she would able to follow him up to the docks
Lee was going to talk with Clem about the guy on the radio, ben stopped him to tell that Kenny wouldn't come down from the attic
Lee didn't know there was a zombie behind the damn thing
You talk a big game, but that's it
Bonnie was there to do recon. Even if Walter hadn't been nice to her, it wouldn't have prevented Carver shooting him in the head later, which was pure coincidence. He could've shot Sarita or even a cabin group member instead. For Carver it was just retributive justice because Kenny killed one of his men, so I guess he chose that one guy he didn't know.
We can blame Carver for actually pulling the trigger and Kenny for causing it, but not the fact that Walter was a nice man.
In Season 1, the one character I hated the most was... Y'know, I can't say I hated any of them. Sure, I disliked Larry, and never really cared much for Chuck, but I didn't hate any of them.
As for Season 2, I hated Troy. Not from how he was in the season, but for how he could have been. I hated how much of failed opportunity Troy was, as he was only pushed into the game so we can cheer for Jane when she popped a cap in his junk.I would have loved to see Troy be this complex side-villain, someone that trusted Carver too much yet completely disagreed with his methods. The writers of the 1st Season would have never included a character for us to hate deliberately. The closest they came to that was Ben, who most of us saved regardless of the designers taunting us with his stupidity.
Season 1:
Larry, The Stranger, Lily, The St. Johns
Season 2:
Carver, Bonnie, Arvo, Troy
Give me examples. The whole "WAS NOT!" "WAS TOO!" style of argument is pointless.
And what do you mean by you got "rough"? Could you please be more specific than that? Kenny doesn't threaten you in season two, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't do it in season one either. The only time he responds to you with violence is if you state your will to fight with him on the train back during season one. He was obviously going through some issues there, though.
That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Again, could you please add some substance to your ideas? Examples?
What part of "generally" did you not understand? He was wrong every now and then. Usually they were understandable, minor situations though.
What kind of a example is that..? How does that point to Kenny being wrong about something? I mean, I guess it really doesn't matter.. just seems like a bizarre example.
I love you start this paragraph off by saying her depression made it okay to do what she did, but then you go on to say that her mental state doesn't make her actions "any less wrong". I don't even know what to argue against here because you have two very different opinions going on in the same paragraph. Want to pick one, please?
How old are you? Twelve?
screw you. it couldnt have been prevented. lee was better than leon s kennedy, harry mason, and joel put together.
yeah, but who discovered it? lee did mothermucker! If lee AND the stranger died together, clem would have opened the door, been introduced to Mr. Asshole Outside, would have been bitten, and even if the she killed the walker, either lee or the stranger would come back and eat her, or she wouldn't have made it! Lee saved clem. and Lee is probably a better person than you FFS!
THE INFECTION WAS GONE!!! HE DIED OF FUCKING BLOODLOSS!!
and the fact that he would do that for someone he is not related to in any way. and shes not his daughter, that makes him a saint.
your right, except for the part about him doing any of this in that situation. he thinks what lee did was stupid and not heroic.
According to your own morals, not mine. There was children involved, and Lilly's group was in clear position to help.
You're ignoring the part where Lilly goes on to beg for their help even though she had just been chastising Carley for extending help unto them. Lilly wanted no part in helping these strangers, but she was quick to turn to turn them for help when it suited her.
No one said anything about feeding them. Lilly came up with that all on her own. The whole point of bringing them back to the camp was to patch David up/ try to save his life. No one said they were going to share their food with them. Obviously Ben ended up staying because of David dying, but that wasn't the point at the time.
You seem to lack the ability to comprehend the fact that NO ONE had said anything about feeding them. Lilly jumped to that conclusion all on her own, because she was going apeshit. I never argued about the rationality behind feeding them or not feeding them. Seriously, did you even read what I said. Go back and have another look.
It had been two weeks. It should not have been impacting her ability to think straight. The way she acts when debating about the Motor Inn is no different than how she acts at any other time during the series (as I have already detailed above). She is generally illogical and obstinate. The Motor Inn argument was not the first example of this (again, explained this above).
Kenny's plan was not irrational. We have gone over this many times. Traveling somewhere cold doesn't = suicide. As long as they travel during the day, keep themselves well supplied and fed (they had to have picked up supplies from somewhere, presumably a city), and find shelter in case of it getting too cold to travel, they should be fine. Illness would probably be their real enemy, not the cold in of itself. You live somewhere cold, right? You should understand these things. There was a level of risk, but there was also a high level of reward. As long as they were smart about it, they had every reason to be fine. And no, they would not have been screwed over in the case of Wellington refusing to take them in. If they made it that far already, why wouldn't they be able to go back? And furthermore, we don't even know how cold it was outside.
It wasn't even Lilly's irrationality that bothered me. It was the fact that even though common sense was basically slapping her across the face, she refused to give an inch. There was nothing to back up her arguments at all, but she still chose to be condescending, rude, and stubborn anyway.
No, the same thing could not be said at all. Not even remotely comparable situations. Just because assumptions are made doesn't mean the context is comparable. Obviously the context between these situations are incredibly different. And what Lilly said was just stupid in of itself anyway. Why the hell would Lee even follow up on the stolen drugs in the first place (all on his own) + agree to lead an investigation if he was the one stealing the drugs in the first place?
It's like we have never had a conversation before. I have gone over these things 234234234234219 times. I feel like I have done a decent job of explaining how they make sense, but hey, whatever. If you want to believe what you want to believe, that's fine. I think Kenny's actions were mostly sensible/logical. That is where the whole idea of "if you don't like Lilly you shouldn't like Kenny either" fails. Trust me, if Kenny was anything like Lilly I would not like him as much as I do.
Nope. Want to try and give some examples?
Lilly's response to the supposed offense was beyond ridiculous, especially in the sense of her shooting Carley just because she mouthed off. Physically engaging someone for them killing your baby is a more appropriate/natural/expected response. These things can not be compared.
Pure speculation on your part. I don't think he would have. I don't think he would have gone beyond roughing him up a little.
Hardly. He just gives Lee a sort of "Listen to him" kind of look and then walks away leaving Lee to make a decision completely on his own. Its not like he was there trying to persuade Lee to let him go.
Explained this a paragraph or two above. Again.. you're being really black and white here.
The point is he was trying to save lives. It wasn't selfish. And he obviously cared about Walt. He wasn't indifferent to him dying.
When Life was hard, you know that saying right?
"when the going gets rough?"
Bullshit, Kenny may not have been a dick to clem, duck, sarita, or katjaa. but he was a dick to EVERYONE ELSE! it made me feel bad for the bad guys like, arvo, carver, and larry. (even though he wasn't a bad guy, just a dick.)
Gladly, Outbusts as in, Sadness, Rage, Cursing at People, Threating people, And Dropping Salt Licks On Peoples Heads.
He did the wrong thing EVERY episode! He Rarely Did anything Good, And He Thinks LEE was the bad guy when he asks ken to go with him? BULL... SHIT.
Because ben was right! they could walk! But noooo, Kenny's about vehicles! First the Truck, Then the RV, then the train, Then the boat! (which is fucking retarded because EVERYONE TOOK THE BOATS!) And THEN the truck in S2 E5!!!
Again, Gladly. Lilly was right to do what she did.
No, I'm 15, I'm President of the debate club in school, and I Have a beautiful vice president, AKA my girlfriend.
as clem if i had the option i would hold her up at gunpoint. she wouldn't go tatling then, now would she?
she was trained by him wasnt she? and she has officaly lived longer in the ZA than him.
The writers.
THAT STEANGER WHO TOOK CLEMENTINE!!
Nothing to do with my moral values. Helping Lee's group put them all at risk.
After you have a kid with gunshot wound or a guy with leg cut off in your base, you cant just fix them in 1-2 days and send them off. Whats the point of helping, if you just let them to die from starvation before they can leave?
Do you remember why she wanted to stay in the motor in? She didnt think it would be any better on the road and being in same car With Kenny didnt feel very appealing. First point was rather stupid, but i can understand that she didnt want to be stuck inside car with person who murdered her father (as she sees it).
If they had proper clothes and supplies for the trip, i would have been fine with a little trip in north... I love cold. However they didnt have any of that and Kenny was planning to leave Arvo behind and Mike wasnt going to allow this to happen.
If they actually prepared for the trip, i woud have been fine, but going there in that condition? no.
You do realize that all the diseases come from people, not the cold itself? Yes i live in rather cold area. Seen -45 degrees in my lifetime and that was a school morning. Like i said ealier in this message, if they prepared for the trip, i would have been fine, but Kenny wanted to go there right away, unprepared, in the night.
The trip as Kenny planned it was way too risky for my taste.
Kenny had same problem with Duck, boats and other stuff. You seem to belittle the fact that they wanted her to go with a man she thought killed her father. Kenny wanted to murder Ben after he found out that people he loved died because of him. Lilly took her father's death slightly better, but after Ben started stealing supplies and she started the witch hunt, everything went to shit. That was her final breaking point.
Lee was the only one she trusted at all?
Right now i cant really think properly. Only thing that comes in my mind is "we are taking this stuff". (need some sleep).
Both acted on assumption and their plan was to achieve something permanent. Its pretty irrelevant what they think someone was guilty of, because they both still wanted to murder someone because of that.
"you are fucking dead, you hear me? Dead!" and then later ["Drop him, Lee" face] while Lee is holding Ben's arm. He obviously wanted him dead and if the group didnt stop him, why wouldnt he have done it himself?
And if you dont do as he wanted, he later says that they should have left Ben behind when they had a chance, and he gives the look to Lee again.
Yet he puts them in danger/gets them killed because he doesnt think about the consequences of his actions.
What about after Walter? If you dont say anything or stop him, he gets Alvin killed also.
Nothing could have stopped Carver from shooting Clementine after Kenny shot Johnny, if Clementine chose to stay "help" Carlos. He doesnt think about these kinds of things and thats what gets people killed.
I didn't steal from Arvo, that's why I was so mad at him in the first place! lol Since he said Clem stole even though it was all Jane.
But hey, I respect your opinion. Maybe I should replay the episode and see if I can find what you're talking about.
i just think arvo didnt know what he was doing, after he left, im sure he felt so horrible. he was just scared of kenny, just like bonnie and mike.
they set the bar really high?
there are countless possibilities to prevent it.
actually check if the girl is just pretending to talk with someone on the radio,do not let her in the believe her parents are alive for months, do not enter the city she believes she can find them, make her afraid of the man on the radio, get someone to watch her, or lock her in a room...
come on! after just sneaking out in the zombi infested streets after him... how irresponsible can he be?
Ah, I wasn't too sure whether it was rumours or fact that Carver caused that, either way, let's just blame Carver.
why the hell do you give someone huge credit for being lucky?
we do not even know if lee would have made that connection. it was clementine that pointed out, he was covered in "that gross stuff". he might as well have assumed, they ignored him because, the infection has spread through his entire body.
you call that saving clem? taking her in the middle of a walker horde, when it is obvious you are going to pass out?
So, if you didn't shoot him he'll get a bloodtransfusion after clem left and so he was "saved"....
don 't say no because look at kenny
why would you think it would work, when he was already passing out from it?
giving up on life or on saving clem? if he thinks he can amputate his own arm and then climb up a giant ladder, he might as well give up.
ridiculous.
after what? three months?
enough time to make a child accept their parents death. but lee did not think of that. he never thinks. he has to be told to do things.
and how could he possible expect her to accept it with a line like "your parents are dead. get over it." out of nowhere?
and he just tags along anyway and supports that ridiculous notion, there is an realistic chance, they would find a boat.
ask and what else? do you not get how dangerous that was? any even remote capable parent would not let that child out of sight, keep an guard on her or look her up, especially if it seems so likely she would do it again.
explaining to her why you are taking the radio, is supposed to be the first thing you do when you take the radio.
yes. he never spots the obvious.
what is so big about it? this are the most basic things you should consider.
so he looses a lot of blood, walks around all day, and just then dies of blood loss?
just take a closer look at the situation.
how many people would actually have left clem behind at her home?
who would not have gotten attached to that sweet little orphan in similar situations?
if you going to die anyway, why not do something useful with your remaining time, and save that orphan you got so attached to?
i think many people in this forum would have done something as noble as lee, but in a less stupid manner.
You're saying you wouldn't do these things because you already what'll happen, Lee didn't. That's real life.
Arvo
Kill it with fire.
Im dont with this conversation, anyone who hates lee is a dick, in my book, no more comments from me...
what is the missing word? "predicted"?
yes, i would have predicted it, most people would.
what is real life? cutting of your arm and then climbing up that elevator shaft?
So you would know that there's a zombie behind the pallet or whatever that thing was? No you wouldn't, because you played the game and know what'll happen next.
and I mean in real life you can't predict situations and always be right.
i would not know. i would predict.
one does not need to be always right. you should just be prepared for what is likely going to happen.
Really? Lee's only concern when he got bit was finding Clem, and the choice to cut his arm off was there because he thought that he would lose the infection or buy him more time to save Clem. And know one knew how zombie bite would work.
Season 1: Lilly for shooting Carly. If I would have had the option to kill her dead right there I would have.
Season 2: Arvo. I hated Carver too, but with Arvo it is a different kind of hate. I did my best to try and show him that Clem is a good person and stood up for him when I felt like he was being wronged and the fucker shot Clem out of spite for a stupid reason. Fuck Arvo. I hope he dies in a fire.