I know three guys that killed themselves after coming back to the states. All vets i served with, Life is sad.
Hopefully your friend can find internal peace.
If you use primitive explanations "god did it" to explain how earth was formed and humans came to exist, instead of spending some time learning scientific explanation, you are just being lazy and ignorant.
No, that's what I believe, and it isn't considered ignorant it's considered an opinion. Deal with it, you're just making more of a fool of yourself every time you claim religion is ignorant, or something you don't know about, it's really pitiful.
Reality as we know it. Im not sure if this is even the reality, but its the best i got so might aswell play along.
But do we really know it? No we don't.
Im 20 and havent been in school for a while. Also, your message didn't make any sense.
I'm pretty sure it made sense, as I said if it didn't you probably don't want it to make sense.
"The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts "
You're not right about anything you have claimed about religious people being ignorant! Do you need me to hold your hand and explain it to y… moreou slowly to get that? No you don't, so use your fucking brain and understand it.
If you use primitive explanations "god did it" to explain how earth was formed and humans came to exist, instead of spending some time learning scientific explanation, you are just being lazy and ignorant.
You don't know what reality is and isn't so don't act like you do.
Reality as we know it. Im not sure if this is even the reality, but its the best i got so might aswell play along.
You must be in 1st grade if that doesn't make sense.
Im 20 and havent been in school for a while.
Also, your message didnt make any sense.
Once again, spewing bullshit that makes no sense.
"The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used a… [view original content]
That's good for you. And It's good that quinnics is religious. It's not good that some guy on the internet thinks that he's hot stuff and wants to call anyone who doesn't agree with him ignorant.
That's good for you. And It's good that quinnics is religious. It's not good that some guy on the internet thinks that he's hot stuff and wants to call anyone who doesn't agree with him ignorant.
I respect all religions, but youre not talking about me, youre talking about Zyke.
We are all entitled to our opinions, you all telling Zyke he is ignorant for his opinions is just as bad as him calling you all ignorant for yours.
Currently it is. Check what facts mean. If there ever shows up evidence about your god, then surely its existance would be seen as a fact.
You cannot one hundred percent effectively disprove God.
Im not trying to disprove god? If i indeed were right, how could i possibly disprove negative? Burden of proof is on positive claim for this very reason. Its impossible to disprove something that doesnt exist.
We have faith that He exists, you have faith that He doesn't.
No, you have faith, i lack any kind of faith. I have no reason to assume such thing exist, just like with any other supernatural creature humans have created over the thousands years.
I'm not saying that you are wrong for forming opinions based on science, but please be respectful of the people around you. There's nothing ignorant about practicing a religion.
If someone ignores facts and blindly believes in primitive explanations, how can i not be offensive when talking to that person?
But it is opinion. There is no right answer. No matter how much scientific evidence you read for being against the existence of a God, there… more is no correct answer. It's not fact to say that God doesn't exist. It's not as simple as saying 'that cup is white' or 'one, two, and three are numbers'. You cannot one hundred percent effectively disprove God. All it comes down to, in the end, is a matter of faith and opinion. We have faith that He exists, you have faith that He doesn't.
I'm not saying that you are wrong for forming opinions based on science, but please be respectful of the people around you. There's nothing ignorant about practicing a religion.
No, that's what I believe, and it isn't considered ignorant it's considered an opinion. Deal with it, you're just making more of a fool of yourself every time you claim religion is ignorant, or something you don't know about, it's really pitiful.
You believe something blindly and ignore facts. Thats the very definition of ignorance. Do you believe god created earth, humans and universe? Do you think evolution is not a fact? Do you believe earth is about 6000 years old? Do you believe humans and dinosaurs lived side by side? Since you are christians, i assume you believe the book your god is based on and if not, why do you pick parts which you like and ignore the rest?
But do we really know it? No we don't.
I just agreed with you, whats the point of agreeing with me again?
Yup sounds like you alright.
You defend your side with blind faith, I defend mine with facts.
If you use primitive explanations "god did it" to explain how earth was formed and humans came to exist, instead of spending some time learn… moreing scientific explanation, you are just being lazy and ignorant.
No, that's what I believe, and it isn't considered ignorant it's considered an opinion. Deal with it, you're just making more of a fool of yourself every time you claim religion is ignorant, or something you don't know about, it's really pitiful.
Reality as we know it. Im not sure if this is even the reality, but its the best i got so might aswell play along.
But do we really know it? No we don't.
Im 20 and havent been in school for a while. Also, your message didn't make any sense.
I'm pretty sure it made sense, as I said if it didn't you probably don't want it to make sense.
"The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to descr… [view original content]
You implied that they were ignorant.
Did you straight out say that like Zyke? No.
Im not trying to argue with you but neither of you in this argument is in the right.
No, that's what I believe, and it isn't considered ignorant it's considered an opinion. Deal with it, you're just making more of a fool of y… moreourself every time you claim religion is ignorant, or something you don't know about, it's really pitiful.
You believe something blindly and ignore facts. Thats the very definition of ignorance. Do you believe god created earth, humans and universe? Do you think evolution is not a fact? Do you believe earth is about 6000 years old? Do you believe humans and dinosaurs lived side by side? Since you are christians, i assume you believe the book your god is based on and if not, why do you pick parts which you like and ignore the rest?
But do we really know it? No we don't.
I just agreed with you, whats the point of agreeing with me again?
Yup sounds like you alright.
You defend your side with blind faith, I defend mine with facts.
First I said the the definition of theories was wrong that's it, I never implied anywhere that science is wrong and you can double check that. Second I don't want to argue either but if you're claiming I said things that I didn't I'm going to continue.
You claimed multiple times that science was wrong, its all just "Your definition of theories (By the way Zyke was actually right on)".
Li… moresten I dont care about religion, I honestly dont want to argue with you on this. You can keep arguing with Zyke because he wants to.
Im fine with whatever you believe whether its magical ponies, spaghetti monster, or leprechauns, but once you start making laws based on what you believe in a secular government, then i have a problem, and please have property tax on the churches, there all over the place and they have enough money to contribute, churches take up valuable space and land. Also, if a christian monument can go up in a government owned place, all other religions should be able to make a monument.
But it is opinion. There is no right answer. No matter how much scientific evidence you read for being against the existence of a God, there… more is no correct answer. It's not fact to say that God doesn't exist. It's not as simple as saying 'that cup is white' or 'one, two, and three are numbers'. You cannot one hundred percent effectively disprove God. All it comes down to, in the end, is a matter of faith and opinion. We have faith that He exists, you have faith that He doesn't.
I'm not saying that you are wrong for forming opinions based on science, but please be respectful of the people around you. There's nothing ignorant about practicing a religion.
Im fine with whatever you believe whether its magical ponies, spaghetti monster, or leprechauns, but once you start making laws based on wha… moret you believe in a secular government, then i have a problem, and please have property tax on the churches, there all over the place and they have enough money to contribute, churches take up valuable space and land. Also, if a christian monument can go up in a government owned place, all other religions should be able to make a monument.
First I said the the definition of theories was wrong that's it, I never implied anywhere that science is wrong and you can double check tha… moret. Second I don't want to argue either but if you're claiming I said things that I didn't I'm going to continue.
It was sarcasm, since he feels he's the only one correct I thought I could freely make that joke. Anyway if you don't want to argue any more don't reply back.
You can't disprove Harry Potter, he COULD be real, you can't disprove magical ponies, they COULD be real, you can't disprove any other god ever, so they COULD be real. But do you believe that they are real? I could have faith they are real, but they don't meet my standard of evidence to think that they are. Same with God. And if someone tried to make me live by the 10 rules of Harry Potter, i'd say fuck you, i dont believe in Harry Potter. But its sad, even if we 100% prove the big bang theory and evolution, or anything else that might disprove him, then they can just change and say god made it happen. Its perfect system where he can never be disproven, because he is all powerful. So churches will continue to roll in donation money and tell people how to live their lives, even if they don't believe what they believe. Ex: Gay marriage. Organized religion is very corrupt, it is too powerful and it brainwashes people at a young age to make them scared and follow their rules. If organized religion was gone, i'd be happy. People could form their own opinions instead of people drilling it into their heads at a young age. Other than organized religion, i am totally fine with religion until it affects me and my family or the secular government.
It's not fact to say that God doesn't exist.
Currently it is. Check what facts mean. If there ever shows up evidence about your god,… more then surely its existance would be seen as a fact.
You cannot one hundred percent effectively disprove God.
Im not trying to disprove god? If i indeed were right, how could i possibly disprove negative? Burden of proof is on positive claim for this very reason. Its impossible to disprove something that doesnt exist.
We have faith that He exists, you have faith that He doesn't.
No, you have faith, i lack any kind of faith. I have no reason to assume such thing exist, just like with any other supernatural creature humans have created over the thousands years.
I'm not saying that you are wrong for forming opinions based on science, but please be respectful of the people around you. There's nothing ignorant about practicing a religion.
If someone ignores facts and bl… [view original content]
It was sarcasm, since he feels he's the only one correct I thought I could freely make that joke. Anyway if you don't want to argue any more don't reply back.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." ~ Romans 6:23
It's important to remember that we are all sinners. It is through repentance and God's mercy that we are saved from the punishment of any sin - death. None of us are exactly worthy of God's forgiveness, but he gives it to us anyways because of Original Sin and the free will he granted us. It is why God created his only Son and had Him die for our sins. It is why baptism, the cleansing of our souls, exists. So that we may reach eternity in Heaven.
God reached out to the Hebrew men multiple times before they turned to Aaron for leadership and the Golden Calf for worship. He performed many miracles for them - he called for them to be lead out of Egypt. The Israelite doubted he would free them from their slavery so he sent the ten plagues to convince Pharaoh to set them free. He parted the Red Sea to help them escape, turned Moses's staff into a snake, turned his hand as white as a person with leprosy, and turned water into blood. He also appeared to seventy elderly (Exodus 24:9-10), spoke to His people (Exodus 19 and 20), and appeared as a pillar of smoke and fire to lead them through the night to safety (Exodus 13:21). He warned them against idolizing other gods, and the people acknowledged this:
When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said. ~ Exodus 24:3-7
So of course God was angry when they went against him and chose to believe Aaron (who himself had met God) when he said that it was the Calf they should be praying to. After all He did for them, they made sacrifices for it and made a festival for it. Aaron, the one who had suggested the Calf, knew what he was doing. He knew God was responsible for the miracles. Even then, God did not kill them. He relented (Exodus 32:14).
Killing and murder are also not synonymous. Murder is unlawful and everything God does is just and has meaning behind it. This article here elaborates way more on that. Way better than I can so I encourage you to read it. It's not long either.
As for your second one, I can't remember when that is. Is that in Numbers? I just want a clarification before I give you a response to an entirely different story. :P
God has done many beautiful things. He has given sight back to the blind, touched women with leprosy to show that he loves all equally, cured the sick, and shown mercy to those willing to repent no matter their sins (Rahab comes to mind).
Sorry, I'm feeling a little sick today so I'm probably not being as thorough as I should be. It took a little while to reply too because I wanted to refresh my memory of the Golden Calf story and find specific quotes. Again, I'm not looking for a fight. I like discussing religion and seeing other peoples perspectives and arguments for/against.
Two examples off the very top of my head:
1) Take your sword, each of you," Moses commanded them. "And go back through the gates, from si… morede to side in the village, to kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbor for the sins they have committed against the Lord God
Their sin was worshipping a golden calf. Kill your loved ones for they are mislead. After all, I could appear to them and right their wrongs, I could redeem them, but I shall have them killed. Fair, just, loving.
2) The women lied with the Hebrew men. So the men of Jerusalem took up arms against this injustice. They killed all the men and boys of the nation. They killed every woman who was not a virgin. They took the virgins of the nation with them to Jerusalem, and took them for their own. After mere days were given to the virgins for their mourning they were taken as wives (against their will) by the men who had killed their families (killed for atrocities they did … [view original content]
So religious people are ignorant for believing something you don't believe in? Yet you aren't considered ignorant in believing thing's you can't prove either? I sense double standards.
Currently it is. Check what facts mean. If there ever shows up evidence about your god, then surely its existance would be seen as a fact.
It is not fact, sorry.
If someone ignores facts and blindly believes in primitive explanations, how can i not be offensive when talking to that person?
...Because people should learn how to argue their viewpoints without offending the other person? Your words and attitude towards religion is ignorant, not my practice of it. Not gonna lie, you seem to be insinuating that religious people are uneducated by stating that we blindly follow what we're taught. Not every single one of us is going to go murder non-believers and kill in the name of God (like you've stated before in reply to another person). A lot of us have taken both science and religion into account - have studied multiple religions and decided what felt best for us as people - when choosing what we believe in.
It's not fact to say that God doesn't exist.
Currently it is. Check what facts mean. If there ever shows up evidence about your god,… more then surely its existance would be seen as a fact.
You cannot one hundred percent effectively disprove God.
Im not trying to disprove god? If i indeed were right, how could i possibly disprove negative? Burden of proof is on positive claim for this very reason. Its impossible to disprove something that doesnt exist.
We have faith that He exists, you have faith that He doesn't.
No, you have faith, i lack any kind of faith. I have no reason to assume such thing exist, just like with any other supernatural creature humans have created over the thousands years.
I'm not saying that you are wrong for forming opinions based on science, but please be respectful of the people around you. There's nothing ignorant about practicing a religion.
If someone ignores facts and bl… [view original content]
Yeah.. I've been there. I appreciate you taking the time to take him up on it though. It's pretty much a waste of time in the sense of convincing him otherwise, but at least his opinions aren't going unchallenged.
Creationism is not a scientific theory. A theory - Makes testable hypotheses, Is falsifiable, and Is naturalistic. Various forms of creationism fail on all three counts here. For example, “intelligent design” creationism makes no testable predictions at all – it makes no checkable claims about how to identify design, who the designer is, what the designer’s goals and motives are, what the mechanism of design is, or when and where the design takes place. In fact, it makes no positive claims whatsoever, other than the hopelessly vague assertion that some intelligent being played a role in the diversification of life. Unless additional details are provided – and advocates of ID have so far steadfastly refused to provide them – ID is untestable and unfalsifiable, and can thus be firmly excluded from the domain of science. It must make a hypothesis about the nature of reality, and there must be a conceivable experiment that could falsify that hypothesis. If that hypothesis is rigorously tested and is not falsified, then it becomes part of that scientific theory. If a hypothesis predicts something that cannot be tested (i.e. if no test result could clearly show the prediction to be false), or if it predicts nothing at all, then it cannot be science. How do experiment if Creationism happened? Im not saying anything bad about believing in God, but Creationism is NOT a scientific theory.
Currently it is. Check what facts mean. If there ever shows up evidence about your god, then surely its existance would be seen as a fact.
… more
It is not fact, sorry.
If someone ignores facts and blindly believes in primitive explanations, how can i not be offensive when talking to that person?
...Because people should learn how to argue their viewpoints without offending the other person? Your words and attitude towards religion is ignorant, not my practice of it. Not gonna lie, you seem to be insinuating that religious people are uneducated by stating that we blindly follow what we're taught. Not every single one of us is going to go murder non-believers and kill in the name of God (like you've stated before in reply to another person). A lot of us have taken both science and religion into account - have studied multiple religions and decided what felt best for us as people - when choosing what we believe in.
Yeah.. I've been there. I appreciate you taking the time to take him up on it though. It's pretty much a waste of time in the sense of convincing him otherwise, but at least his opinions aren't going unchallenged.
I deleted that portion of my response because I realized mentioning Evolution was to open a whole new can of worms, and it strayed from the point I was originally trying to make. Plus I've been sick for the past few days so sorry for not elaborating on my thoughts clearly. I meant that a lot of people are regarding it as both fact and theory (the fact being that yes, species do evolve, change, and go extinct over time).
Creationism is not a scientific theory. A theory - Makes testable hypotheses, Is falsifiable, and Is naturalistic. Various forms of creation… moreism fail on all three counts here. For example, “intelligent design” creationism makes no testable predictions at all – it makes no checkable claims about how to identify design, who the designer is, what the designer’s goals and motives are, what the mechanism of design is, or when and where the design takes place. In fact, it makes no positive claims whatsoever, other than the hopelessly vague assertion that some intelligent being played a role in the diversification of life. Unless additional details are provided – and advocates of ID have so far steadfastly refused to provide them – ID is untestable and unfalsifiable, and can thus be firmly excluded from the domain of science. It must make a hypothesis about the nature of reality, and there must be a conceivable experiment that could falsify that hypo… [view original content]
Death is not from sin. The bible is filled with fallacies of such magnitude. God is all knowing. He knew Adam and Eve would eat the apple. So why give them the option in the first place if he loved them and knew they would do it and he would have to punish them. It's like giving a known meth addict a bag of meth, then arresting him after you have given it to him knowing he would use it. An "I told you so"? Only those who bow to a terrifying God can have eternal life. Your quote is a finely worded way to mascaraed a selfish act as an act of love. God loves a minority of people, the rest he dooms to a pit of fire. Your God rules through fear more than he rules through love. If he were to save everyone then what would cause Christians to not search other religions if for no other reason than curiosity or fear of another religion's God offering the same (or similar) damning. Nothing. You don't need to explain Jesus' sacrifice, baptism, or anything of the like. As I said, I lived the usual Christian upbringing for the majority of my life.
Your God is all knowing (this is his unmaking). He would have known they would not follow his words. He could have set the Golden Calf aflame, or not have given them the gold for the calf in the first place. Again, giving meth to a meth addict. Giving a knife to a child. Giving a bible to a manipulator. All, if nothing else, extremely stupid decisions. But your God is not stupid, so he must want to punish us.
Killing and murder are not the same. Your God is a murderer. There is no justification for killing so many people simply because you can or you don't like them, especially when you can prevent it. There is no justification for damning billions of good human beings for not kissing the feet of a God they are told they need to love. A man is born in Egypt. He is raised in a world where God is not taught as the true god. He is told this for his entire life. As the human mind works he will not change his mind. Your God does not reach out to him like he could, and instead damns his soul to hell for not kissing the foot of a god he doesn't know as God. That is tyrannical, that is terrible, that is horrible. This is not justifiable, and this is evil.
I don't remember which book it is. My sister and brother in law found it once when I was debating them, so if it remains prudent I will ask them in the morning.
He has done many impressive magic tricks. Nothing on par with what science has done for people. In magnificence or scope.
I am very tired, so pretty much in the same boat as you. I hope this makes as much sense as I think it did when typing it. I'm not looking for a fight either. In all honestly I love debating religion as well. Mostly for once reason. I want someone to explain how God is not evil, how all the atrocious act in the bible can be justified, how I can believe in such a book as the bible and love God again. But sadly the usual "Because everything he does has reason," unfounded reason isn't acceptable. How I predict this debate will also end. (Seeing as you have already stated it.)
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." ~ Romans 6:23
It's important to remem… moreber that we are all sinners. It is through repentance and God's mercy that we are saved from the punishment of any sin - death. None of us are exactly worthy of God's forgiveness, but he gives it to us anyways because of Original Sin and the free will he granted us. It is why God created his only Son and had Him die for our sins. It is why baptism, the cleansing of our souls, exists. So that we may reach eternity in Heaven.
God reached out to the Hebrew men multiple times before they turned to Aaron for leadership and the Golden Calf for worship. He performed many miracles for them - he called for them to be lead out of Egypt. The Israelite doubted he would free them from their slavery so he sent the ten plagues to convince Pharaoh to set them free. He parted the Red Sea to help them escape, turned Mos… [view original content]
I deleted that portion of my response because I realized mentioning Evolution was to open a whole new can of worms, and it strayed from the … morepoint I was originally trying to make. Plus I've been sick for the past few days so sorry for not elaborating on my thoughts clearly. I meant that a lot of people are regarding it as both fact and theory (the fact being that yes, species do evolve, change, and go extinct over time).
Yeah.. I've been there. I appreciate you taking the time to take him up on it though. It's pretty much a waste of time in the sense of convincing him otherwise, but at least his opinions aren't going unchallenged.
Death is not from sin. The bible is filled with fallacies of such magnitude. God is all knowing. He knew Adam and Eve would eat the apple. … moreSo why give them the option in the first place if he loved them and knew they would do it and he would have to punish them. It's like giving a known meth addict a bag of meth, then arresting him after you have given it to him knowing he would use it. An "I told you so"? Only those who bow to a terrifying God can have eternal life. Your quote is a finely worded way to mascaraed a selfish act as an act of love. God loves a minority of people, the rest he dooms to a pit of fire. Your God rules through fear more than he rules through love. If he were to save everyone then what would cause Christians to not search other religions if for no other reason than curiosity or fear of another religion's God offering the same (or similar) damning. Nothing. You don't need to explain Jesus' sacrifice, baptism, or anyth… [view original content]
And calling fat person fat is offensive, no matter that you are right.
If you want to be received and your arguments looked at as something other than annoying, troll-ish drivel then I suggest you change your attitude. I mean, if that's the look you are going for then so be it. But you can make your points against religion while still maintaining a friendly demeanor. You can speak as low of God and religion as you wish if you know how to word things in a way more akin to debate vs a pissing match. The latter is what this looks like.
I'm just going to go on an limb and say this, but if you have beliefs that can also be said to be 'out of the ordinary', it is hypocritical and disrespectful to dismiss someone else's. She has faith in her beliefs(if she is being serious) , as do many other people. If you called a religious persons beliefs nutty or crazy that would instantly be considered offensive. Most of these types of beliefs are based on personal thought instead of external evidence so they all should be as valid as each other.
Comments
Well she has spent last 2 years in compulsory care, in and out every now and then. Doesnt look that great for her.
No, that's what I believe, and it isn't considered ignorant it's considered an opinion. Deal with it, you're just making more of a fool of yourself every time you claim religion is ignorant, or something you don't know about, it's really pitiful.
But do we really know it? No we don't.
I'm pretty sure it made sense, as I said if it didn't you probably don't want it to make sense.
Yup sounds like you alright.
Exactly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcSpFtvfL4o
That's good for you. And It's good that quinnics is religious. It's not good that some guy on the internet thinks that he's hot stuff and wants to call anyone who doesn't agree with him ignorant.
I respect all religions, but youre not talking about me, youre talking about Zyke.
We are all entitled to our opinions, you all telling Zyke he is ignorant for his opinions is just as bad as him calling you all ignorant for yours.
No it isn't, because he's disrespecting entire groups of people, he is demonstrating his ignorance to us in his words, he's definitely worse.
Currently it is. Check what facts mean. If there ever shows up evidence about your god, then surely its existance would be seen as a fact.
Im not trying to disprove god? If i indeed were right, how could i possibly disprove negative? Burden of proof is on positive claim for this very reason. Its impossible to disprove something that doesnt exist.
No, you have faith, i lack any kind of faith. I have no reason to assume such thing exist, just like with any other supernatural creature humans have created over the thousands years.
If someone ignores facts and blindly believes in primitive explanations, how can i not be offensive when talking to that person?
Using that logic youre disrespecting entire groups of people too.
Atheists and people who favor science over religion.
Not really, because I'm not calling those people ignorant, I'm calling him ignorant.
You believe something blindly and ignore facts. Thats the very definition of ignorance. Do you believe god created earth, humans and universe? Do you think evolution is not a fact? Do you believe earth is about 6000 years old? Do you believe humans and dinosaurs lived side by side? Since you are christians, i assume you believe the book your god is based on and if not, why do you pick parts which you like and ignore the rest?
I just agreed with you, whats the point of agreeing with me again?
You defend your side with blind faith, I defend mine with facts.
You implied that they were ignorant.
Did you straight out say that like Zyke? No.
Im not trying to argue with you but neither of you in this argument is in the right.
Care to give me an example of when I implied that?
Sigh, do I have to repeat myself every time? I won't just go back and read my previous posts.
Yeah.
I don't think it's fact no, but it could work sure.
I don't know, nor care how old the earth is. And no human's and dino's probably didn't live side by side.
I never read nor intend to read the bible, I don't need a book to tell me how to believe in God.
If fact's are calling religious people ignorant, then you need a new dictionary to tell you what a fact is.
You claimed multiple times that science was wrong, its all just "Your definition of theories (By the way Zyke was actually right on)".
Listen I dont care about religion, I honestly dont want to argue with you on this. You can keep arguing with Zyke because he wants to.
First I said the the definition of theories was wrong that's it, I never implied anywhere that science is wrong and you can double check that. Second I don't want to argue either but if you're claiming I said things that I didn't I'm going to continue.
Im fine with whatever you believe whether its magical ponies, spaghetti monster, or leprechauns, but once you start making laws based on what you believe in a secular government, then i have a problem, and please have property tax on the churches, there all over the place and they have enough money to contribute, churches take up valuable space and land. Also, if a christian monument can go up in a government owned place, all other religions should be able to make a monument.
I agree 100%
"Science wrong?!?!?!?! I never, how dare you say such a thing, Ben"
Now stop, I dont care.
It was sarcasm, since he feels he's the only one correct I thought I could freely make that joke. Anyway if you don't want to argue any more don't reply back.
You can't disprove Harry Potter, he COULD be real, you can't disprove magical ponies, they COULD be real, you can't disprove any other god ever, so they COULD be real. But do you believe that they are real? I could have faith they are real, but they don't meet my standard of evidence to think that they are. Same with God. And if someone tried to make me live by the 10 rules of Harry Potter, i'd say fuck you, i dont believe in Harry Potter. But its sad, even if we 100% prove the big bang theory and evolution, or anything else that might disprove him, then they can just change and say god made it happen. Its perfect system where he can never be disproven, because he is all powerful. So churches will continue to roll in donation money and tell people how to live their lives, even if they don't believe what they believe. Ex: Gay marriage. Organized religion is very corrupt, it is too powerful and it brainwashes people at a young age to make them scared and follow their rules. If organized religion was gone, i'd be happy. People could form their own opinions instead of people drilling it into their heads at a young age. Other than organized religion, i am totally fine with religion until it affects me and my family or the secular government.
It was sarcasm, which means I wasn't serious at all.
Last thing.
It was sarcasm that science is wrong.
Alright, thats it, have a good day.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." ~ Romans 6:23
It's important to remember that we are all sinners. It is through repentance and God's mercy that we are saved from the punishment of any sin - death. None of us are exactly worthy of God's forgiveness, but he gives it to us anyways because of Original Sin and the free will he granted us. It is why God created his only Son and had Him die for our sins. It is why baptism, the cleansing of our souls, exists. So that we may reach eternity in Heaven.
God reached out to the Hebrew men multiple times before they turned to Aaron for leadership and the Golden Calf for worship. He performed many miracles for them - he called for them to be lead out of Egypt. The Israelite doubted he would free them from their slavery so he sent the ten plagues to convince Pharaoh to set them free. He parted the Red Sea to help them escape, turned Moses's staff into a snake, turned his hand as white as a person with leprosy, and turned water into blood. He also appeared to seventy elderly (Exodus 24:9-10), spoke to His people (Exodus 19 and 20), and appeared as a pillar of smoke and fire to lead them through the night to safety (Exodus 13:21). He warned them against idolizing other gods, and the people acknowledged this:
When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said. ~ Exodus 24:3-7
So of course God was angry when they went against him and chose to believe Aaron (who himself had met God) when he said that it was the Calf they should be praying to. After all He did for them, they made sacrifices for it and made a festival for it. Aaron, the one who had suggested the Calf, knew what he was doing. He knew God was responsible for the miracles. Even then, God did not kill them. He relented (Exodus 32:14).
Killing and murder are also not synonymous. Murder is unlawful and everything God does is just and has meaning behind it. This article here elaborates way more on that. Way better than I can so I encourage you to read it. It's not long either.
As for your second one, I can't remember when that is. Is that in Numbers? I just want a clarification before I give you a response to an entirely different story. :P
God has done many beautiful things. He has given sight back to the blind, touched women with leprosy to show that he loves all equally, cured the sick, and shown mercy to those willing to repent no matter their sins (Rahab comes to mind).
Sorry, I'm feeling a little sick today so I'm probably not being as thorough as I should be. It took a little while to reply too because I wanted to refresh my memory of the Golden Calf story and find specific quotes. Again, I'm not looking for a fight. I like discussing religion and seeing other peoples perspectives and arguments for/against.
You're just the worst.
Stop with this. Its not an argument you can win, and its not an argument you should make.
I've tried explaining this to him, it's like talking to a brick wall though.
EDIT: Sorry for the double post.
Seeing this thread of replies about religion vs science makes me think:
It is not fact, sorry.
...Because people should learn how to argue their viewpoints without offending the other person? Your words and attitude towards religion is ignorant, not my practice of it. Not gonna lie, you seem to be insinuating that religious people are uneducated by stating that we blindly follow what we're taught. Not every single one of us is going to go murder non-believers and kill in the name of God (like you've stated before in reply to another person). A lot of us have taken both science and religion into account - have studied multiple religions and decided what felt best for us as people - when choosing what we believe in.
Yeah.. I've been there. I appreciate you taking the time to take him up on it though. It's pretty much a waste of time in the sense of convincing him otherwise, but at least his opinions aren't going unchallenged.
Creationism is not a scientific theory. A theory - Makes testable hypotheses, Is falsifiable, and Is naturalistic. Various forms of creationism fail on all three counts here. For example, “intelligent design” creationism makes no testable predictions at all – it makes no checkable claims about how to identify design, who the designer is, what the designer’s goals and motives are, what the mechanism of design is, or when and where the design takes place. In fact, it makes no positive claims whatsoever, other than the hopelessly vague assertion that some intelligent being played a role in the diversification of life. Unless additional details are provided – and advocates of ID have so far steadfastly refused to provide them – ID is untestable and unfalsifiable, and can thus be firmly excluded from the domain of science. It must make a hypothesis about the nature of reality, and there must be a conceivable experiment that could falsify that hypothesis. If that hypothesis is rigorously tested and is not falsified, then it becomes part of that scientific theory. If a hypothesis predicts something that cannot be tested (i.e. if no test result could clearly show the prediction to be false), or if it predicts nothing at all, then it cannot be science. How do experiment if Creationism happened? Im not saying anything bad about believing in God, but Creationism is NOT a scientific theory.
I'm glad to challenge a ton of the ignorant stuff he says any day. As long as he keeps going like this I'll keep going at him.
I deleted that portion of my response because I realized mentioning Evolution was to open a whole new can of worms, and it strayed from the point I was originally trying to make. Plus I've been sick for the past few days so sorry for not elaborating on my thoughts clearly. I meant that a lot of people are regarding it as both fact and theory (the fact being that yes, species do evolve, change, and go extinct over time).
Death is not from sin. The bible is filled with fallacies of such magnitude. God is all knowing. He knew Adam and Eve would eat the apple. So why give them the option in the first place if he loved them and knew they would do it and he would have to punish them. It's like giving a known meth addict a bag of meth, then arresting him after you have given it to him knowing he would use it. An "I told you so"? Only those who bow to a terrifying God can have eternal life. Your quote is a finely worded way to mascaraed a selfish act as an act of love. God loves a minority of people, the rest he dooms to a pit of fire. Your God rules through fear more than he rules through love. If he were to save everyone then what would cause Christians to not search other religions if for no other reason than curiosity or fear of another religion's God offering the same (or similar) damning. Nothing. You don't need to explain Jesus' sacrifice, baptism, or anything of the like. As I said, I lived the usual Christian upbringing for the majority of my life.
Your God is all knowing (this is his unmaking). He would have known they would not follow his words. He could have set the Golden Calf aflame, or not have given them the gold for the calf in the first place. Again, giving meth to a meth addict. Giving a knife to a child. Giving a bible to a manipulator. All, if nothing else, extremely stupid decisions. But your God is not stupid, so he must want to punish us.
Killing and murder are not the same. Your God is a murderer. There is no justification for killing so many people simply because you can or you don't like them, especially when you can prevent it. There is no justification for damning billions of good human beings for not kissing the feet of a God they are told they need to love. A man is born in Egypt. He is raised in a world where God is not taught as the true god. He is told this for his entire life. As the human mind works he will not change his mind. Your God does not reach out to him like he could, and instead damns his soul to hell for not kissing the foot of a god he doesn't know as God. That is tyrannical, that is terrible, that is horrible. This is not justifiable, and this is evil.
I don't remember which book it is. My sister and brother in law found it once when I was debating them, so if it remains prudent I will ask them in the morning.
He has done many impressive magic tricks. Nothing on par with what science has done for people. In magnificence or scope.
I am very tired, so pretty much in the same boat as you. I hope this makes as much sense as I think it did when typing it. I'm not looking for a fight either. In all honestly I love debating religion as well. Mostly for once reason. I want someone to explain how God is not evil, how all the atrocious act in the bible can be justified, how I can believe in such a book as the bible and love God again. But sadly the usual "Because everything he does has reason," unfounded reason isn't acceptable. How I predict this debate will also end. (Seeing as you have already stated it.)
Run for the hills its the end of the world.
Ah, I see.
A waste of space & memory on the forums, he is as well.
That's kind of harsh....
Exactly, well said viva la lee
If you want to be received and your arguments looked at as something other than annoying, troll-ish drivel then I suggest you change your attitude. I mean, if that's the look you are going for then so be it. But you can make your points against religion while still maintaining a friendly demeanor. You can speak as low of God and religion as you wish if you know how to word things in a way more akin to debate vs a pissing match. The latter is what this looks like.
I'm just going to go on an limb and say this, but if you have beliefs that can also be said to be 'out of the ordinary', it is hypocritical and disrespectful to dismiss someone else's. She has faith in her beliefs(if she is being serious) , as do many other people. If you called a religious persons beliefs nutty or crazy that would instantly be considered offensive. Most of these types of beliefs are based on personal thought instead of external evidence so they all should be as valid as each other.