Finally got around to beating Episode 5
Been busy, finally beat it. Sat there looking at the "13% still with Kenny" with my mind blown open.
...Really? So many hardcore Kenny supporters going into the season, and only THIRTEEN percent stuck by him through it all? He's the only character that matters still in my eyes, most of seasons 2's characters were quite fillers. Sure he's losing his mind a little, but so would you being in the same situation. Jane's decision to hide the baby to make it seem like she abandoned it, or worse yet killed it, is down right psychopathic. You can trigger anyone and make them lose control. She's also the first one in the fight to use lethal force, it was just a fist fight up until that point. She purposely wanted to push him over the edge, something I couldn't look past.
Sad Luke had to die in such a meaningless way, with no way to prevent it. I was confused with the "decided not to help luke" choice. I didn't run to help him and decided to shoot the walkers because I felt that was his best chance at survival. He wasn't in the water, he should of been able to get himself out, and going there to help him could of made the ice break. Bonnie decided to go there, and ultimately is what caused his death. I did not get why Bonnie all a sudden hated a CHILD for a choice that wasn't black/white to begin with. I feel she's been pretty bi-polar ever since she was introduced, the scene when they tried to abandoned clem just further confirmed it.
Ultimate, the way I see it... Kenny was never hostile or aggressive towards Clem, he almost always listened to Clem's reasoning. There was no reason to abandon him, let alone kill him. Really surprised that many people thought he was too far gone. Kenny > Luke > Jane >>> Everyone else, in my opinion.
Anyone agree?
Comments
It just appears to be a vocal minority who love and follow Kenny. Just because most prefer Jane/along doesn't make them wrong. Both sides can be argued fairly well.
I don't know why the majority supported someone who purposely made it seem like she let the baby die (or worse yet killed her), in order to prove her point. You can push anyone over the edge, and she purposely triggered him for no reason but to prove a point. Kenny didn't even attempt to kill her until Jane started using lethal force. There's no proof his intentions were anything but to get into a non-lethal fight.
shrug
Shrug all you want my friend, it doesn't make you right. There is also no proof that Jane wanted to kill Kenny either. And Kenny most certainly has his faults, on par with Jane.
I'm not a vocal Kenny supporter (I thought he was narratively excellent, but certainly a loose cannon to say the least) but I still with him, if only out of loyalty.
#We are the 13%
Most people shot Kenny to stop Murder, Kenny had beaten Arvo all episode to the point he shot clementine, pushed Bonnie and Mike to run away. Jane pushed him over with her dumb trick but the capability was there, Kenny instantly tried to KILL her over something he wasnt even clear about.
Completely agree with 'ya, Tyrindor. You speak truth and reason as far as I'm concerned. ^^
Some people did not see through Jane's plan and was tricked into killing Kenny, some people just sided with Jane over Kenny, and some people think if you have a gun in your hands you are going to use it in a very tense situation as the one telltale puts you in just to stop the fighting. Everyone has their reasons to what they did, but anyways congratulations on beating the game.
Jane escalated it into a fight to the death by slicing Kenny's chest and claiming that it was time to put the 'crusty piece of shit' out of his misery.
Regardless Kenny attacked her first, she put her knife away before he attacked her
i wish people would stop referencing this one line of** determinant **dialogue, honestly she tells Kenny to just run a second before that anyway. Kenny makes simaler comments if you tell him to stop
IIRC Kenny just says that he's done talking and doesn't want Clem to get involved; nothing even remotely close to the toxicity of Jane's dialogue. Maybe Kenny wouldn't have attacked her if she hadn't intentionally provoked him... it was a highly unethical thing to do, especially considering the hardships he'd endured beforehand. Jane wanted a reaction and she got one, all just to prove a point, which is disgustingly manipulative and unforgivable in my book.
Exactly she got a reaction, Kenny flipped out and instantly went to attack and kill her, maybe you trust him enough that he wont ever do this to clementine if she accidentaly gets the baby killed or hurts her accidently in one of his rages (He tosses clem aside twice if you try and stop him) one time its undetermined. not to mention the fact he can smack her if she helps arvo by mistake
But in my game I dont trust him. I dont like him and I dont want to be with him. Jane's nuts too but at least I can talk to her and she'll listen to me when discussing what to do
As much as I did not like Jane for the whole Sarah controversy in Episode 4, I ended up taking her side when it came to choosing between her and Kenny.
While I can agree that the majority were likely tricked into shooting Kenny, and while it was a cruel trick I admit, some merely understood that how badly Kenny reacted to the 'death' of the baby had only confirmed their belief that Kenny is too mentally and emotionally unstable to have around anymore.
He immediately assumes that Jane had killed the baby without giving her a chance to explain what had happened, and judging by how Jane had lost the baby, she was in a state of shock and looked sad, leading some to believe that the baby's death was not intentional. Had it been Clementine or another survivor (such as Luke) who had lost the baby by accident in a raging blizzard, Kenny would also jump to conclusion and proceed to commit murder in the heat of the moment.
Also, Jane never intended to kill either Kenny or the baby. She wanted to prove to Clementine that Kenny was a ticking time-bomb due to his inability to control his emotions in tragic or stressful situations, which caused Mike and Bonnie to turn traitor and attempt to leave the group. The problem was is that her plan, as foolhardy as it was, worked too well. Kenny not only didn't take the news of the baby's 'death', but he tried to murder the person supposedly responsible with no evidence, and no opportunity to learn the truth behind it, because he assumes he knows best. Jane even tries to break up the fight more than once, but Kenny refuses to back down both times, leaving Jane with no option but to kill him via self-defence.
Hardly.
by mistake
So does Jane.
Because people saw the last part of the episode differently.
Careful people this looks likes it's turning into a Jane vs Kenny thread and will end up being moved to that mega topic.
Well, clearly it's gonna be a Kenny v Jane thread. ^^ That's the topic of conversation with this really.
There's no proof Kenny try to kill her and she didn't try to defend herself against his claims. She used lethal force first.
Exactly! :P I'll admit Jane's one crafty bitch; she's managed to trick most players into turning against their most reliable friend. At the end of the day she wanted Kenny dead, and she was relying on Clem to pull the trigger and finish him so that her disturbed agenda became fulfilled and she'd have her all to herself.
Hes not my friend, forgave him twice in season 1, still tried to get me killed half a dozen times, refused to help me find clementine despite I saved his wife and kid numerous times.
No matter how much the game kept forcing clem to like kenny i dont like him whatsoever
Also I wasnt tricked anyone could figure out Janes plan, if anything it proves her right more despite her idiotic idea, Kenny kills her even though the baby is in fact fine, yet clem just goes "whatevs" to the fact Kenny killed Jane despite her not actually having done anything
We are the 13%
Not really.
Look at the difference:
Clementine: "Jane, back off!"
Jane: "No, Clem. It's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery."
Clementine: "Kenny, let's just sit down and talk." (I don't remember the exact quote, but I'm positively sure it's something along those lines.)
Kenny: "Words ain't gonna fix this!"
His response was far less pernicious and baleful. These two are far from "Similar comments", if you ask me. Kenny simply pointed out that he was done talking. This, in no way, is the equivalent of claiming you will put someone out of his misery as if that person was a stray dog.
Uh-huh...not really. If by any chance you happen to disagree with her or tell her to stop mocking Kenny, she replies "You're just like him." Not as open-minded and comprehensive as people make her out to be. Also, I wanted to stay with Kenny. She didn't listen to me, did she?
To me both of them are gone and I thought they were both nuts, so I made Clem be nuts and murder Kenneth after he murdered Jane now it's a whole crazy party!
There both overobsessed psychos, it just comes down to which one you agree with more.
Jane tries with kenny for the whole of ep 5, she starts off saying clem has to help him then says clem should try and leave him then tried the dumb plan to show hes crazy. Killing him is the last point,
Kenny disses every member of the group constantly if they ever disagree, With clem he barely even listens to her, in the car when he and her are talking he just keeps insisting on wellington or changes the subject (as with everyone else). You have more choice with Jane than Kenny who since episode 3 of season 2 has shown that its his plan or nothing.
Jane forces her opinion like anyone sure but she at least discusses it with people or tries to anyway. Shes manipulative sure but so is kenny, hes just more blunt about it.
It comes down to are you going to let kenny murder someone over something they may or may not have done, in the aftermath its shown Janes a liar but not a childkiller which if anything reduces the crime Kenny is killing her for.
My Clem didn't go 'whatevs', she was pissed at Kenny for killing Jane but understood why and recognized that she could have put a stop to it if she really wanted to. Kenny never tries to get you killed... Hell, I sided with Kenny on virtually nothing in my original playthrough yet despite that he was still Lee's bro. Regardless of how you treat him he ultimately ends up helping you with Clementine in No Time Left.
He's basically God.
Leaves Lee under a door over a week later to be eaten alive by walkers
Non determinately wants to smash Lee's head in in the attic
I dont count the fact hes with Lee after escaping a bunch of walkers, he didnt really have a choice at that point and in fact at the first possible chance he's gone.
Oh and Im not arguing he cares about clementine by the end of season 2 but both him and Jane do thats not up for debate here
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I don't know why you're giving me an in-depth look of both characters, as it has little to nothing to do with my initial reply to you. Oh well. This sounds interesting too.
Far from psychopaths. They sure as hell are over the edge a little, but I wouldn't call them that. One is selfish and takes it upon herself to make decisions for the others. As she wants Clementine to do everything she says and won't let her decide between her and Kenny by herself, orders Kenny to leave, etc. The other one has clearly lost it and makes vacuous decisions that perhaps he should have given a second thought, but both have enough redeeming qualities to be taken off such a cruel list. Sometimes we forget most of their fights revolve around AJ/Clementine. But yeah, they're still crazy.
Unnecessary wall of text, as I never claimed that Kenny was a lovely person that would listen to other a whole lot. You did.
She doesn't discuss it a whole lot, either. She never told me she planned on hiding the baby and attempt to kill Kenny of whatever she was trying to do. She also took me as a joke, seemingly. She didn't take my opinion and feelings towards Kenny into consideration and instead took it upon herself to decide what was best for me. She's as stubborn as Ken is, but like you said, at least he's honest about it.
I never thought she had killed AJ. I let her die simply because manipulating my friend into going nuts (more nuts than usual) so she could get rid of him was as terrible. Okay, not as terrible, but still unnecessary on every imaginable way. I simply stayed out of it, like she asked me to. Not like I grabbed a machete and repeatedly stabbed her in the face.
Yeah there not psychopaths there sociopaths if anything
I respect that. For me, they're just crazy in their own way.
I didn't want either to die. If Jane truly had such a problem with Kenny, I would've just let her walk away alive before any of this happened. She had other ideas in mind, though. It's a shame she pulled a Kenny and made a terrible decision without thinking of the consequences. She could have lived for a long time.
Honestly the scene's completely up for debate based on your personal interpretation of the scene. But I do know this, had the roles been reversed and Jane was trying to kill Kenny, I would have shot her because no matter how much I don't personally like someone, I don't condone murder.
Honestly this season, I felt like a lot of other characters were much more interesting than Kenny, but they were ultimately put aside just to follow "The Adventures Of Kenny". I felt characters like, Nick, Alvin, Sarah, Mike, Bonnie and Arvo were much more interesting than Kenny, but were just shoved into a corner to focus on Kenny. Though that's just my opinion.
Exactly I would have left kenny long ago if the game had let me I didnt want to have to kill him but the game left me no other option
Exactly. I wanted to leave Jane or at least be straight with her and give her some piece of advice before she kept talking trash behind Kenny's back and pulling his hair since I knew it would only get worse, but I only got dialogue options to bond with her. Oh well, it is what it is.
We're pretty much in agreement here. This went better than expected for a Jane vs Kenny argument.
That's because he doesn't have a weapon. If you helped Lilly, she has it and Kenny's unarmed. ._.
IIRC he covered my Lee while the door was on him, or helped him up. He definitely didn't abandon him in my playthrough. And yeah, I shot the girl.
No offence but what the heck? How does that make any sense, he has a weapon in each version he just leaves Lee as he didnt agree with him
Also yes both are determinant but they both happened in my game even after I helped duck,defended duck,fed duck etc. The fact Kenny can do both of these things purely due to a disagreement (one a whole week afyer the incident) shows hes a twat and thats why in my case I dont like him just because he did something heroic at the last minute dosnt excuse everything he did. I was done with him after episode 4. Like I'd said I'd forgiven him before that but that was it after he refused with clementine all because I saved ben and wanted him to come along.
Opinions? That's ridiculous sheriff!
I watched my dad play the episode yesterday and Kenny hardly left him out of spite... Lilly reached for the discarded sickle instead of Kenny, who simply didn't get the chance. It's understandable he didn't want to rush Danny while unarmed.
I presume you like Lee. Why's that? He murdered a man in cold blood and was convicted for what was probably going to be life. He did a heroic thing at the last minute that redeemed him, just like Kenny.
Look even IF I accept this notion that Kenny for whatever reason didnt pick up a weapon in the save larry version even though Lilly is in no way out of the meat locker at that point, but even if thats the case Kenny is a rash person he charges Andy whos pointing a rifle at him when he holds duck so why wouldnt he attack Danny who has his back to him. Kenny would help if he wanted to but he dosnt he leaves Lee to die.
Well honestly I never see Lee and season 2 clem as a character really, just me in that situation . And honestly Lee killed someone out of rage in a major situation who he didnt even know and probably hated.
I wasnt even that pissed at Kenny over the danny thing his head was a mess and it happened quickly even if it was worth hating him over; its the fact he acting like everyone else is the dick while leaving me under a door to be eaten alive by walkers, this is a week after the meat locker his heads clear yet he leaves him/me there. Despite everything I did for him and his family he leaves me there to die a horrible death, thats way different to killing a guy sleeping with your wife whos done nothing for you especially as we know no details of it, plus Lee seems somewhat remorseful about it kenny never even flinches about it
It was literally a two second window... Can't blame him for that as you say.
Debatable. It was before the apocalypse making it completely unacceptable imo.
I honestly don't recall that happening... I'll find out in the replay I'm about to do. If you're right I'm pretty sure he hangs back out of fear due to the additional amount of walkers brought on by the gunshot. There's less of a threat if you didn't shoot the girl and so he goes ahead and lifts the door off you... I'm not gonna completely condemn Kenny for inaction when there could have been a multitude of reasons behind it.
I shot Kenny because, well, he went over the deep end. And then in replays when I spared him and went to Wellington, I stayed at the settlement instead of going with Kenny because, again, he went over the deep end. In my opinion, as of No Going Back he is too dangerous to be looking out for Clem and AJ. He's one of my favorite characters and I believe that he's still a good man, but I can't help but see him as dangerous to the people around him after everything he's been forced to endure.
It is really sad to see that so many players got manipulated by Jane. But on the other hand, it is also nice to know that only 13% of all the players out there decided to do the right things and we can all be proud to be a part of it.
#We are the 13%