Why did so many people save Jane?
EDIT Is there any way I can get a moderator to lock this thread? There are nothing but trolls here, but I think it presents quality information in this post especially about Jane's plan, so I would prefer it not be removed.
- The only answers I could logically come up with why they save her over Kenny by so much, is that;
- Lonely PC guys had a crush on her being the "sexy" androgynous, 'hurt', loner female (and thought they could "fix" her and make her happy again)
- Kenny had a bad reputation in the first game as a bit of a bomb - but in fairness she wasn't even in the first game, you never got to see her abandon her sister etc. people didn't get to hate her too like you did Kenny, because she wasn't in the first one.
And I really did assume Jane sacrificed the baby to save herself because that's who she was.
1. She left her sister behind
2. She wanted to leave that other girl with the glasses to die/and would if you had not told her otherwise (even though she was right next to her and could be convinced to try and save her and STILL get away unscathed)
3. She wanted to leave the baby behind before
4. She wanted to leave the pregnant mom behind
5. She wanted to leave Luke behind
6. She wanted to leave Kenny behind
7. She wanted to probably leave others behind too that I forgot
8. She DID LEAVE everyone behind
I get that she is one of those hardcore survivalist "faux-tough" persons, but why bother surviving if you have nothing to survive for? And when you sacrifice morality you're the same as an animal then. Might as well just eat a bullet.
Kenny is pretty screwed up and temperamental but at least his heart is in the right place, and he's so screwed up because he lost his child, his wife, his girlfriend, and plenty of others.
Meanwhile Jane didn't lose anyone, she willingly left them.
Honestly I wanted to just put Jane out of her misery and shoot her instead of letting Kenny stab her.
I realize some of this has probably been said on these forums (As I just now beat the game long after release) but I'd rather make a new post than revive an old one, and if you don't want to repeat yourself or "hear this again", please just don't respond.
I've never been much of a TWD fan, all the disingenuous, contrived, manufactured conflict is a bit corny, but the first game was pretty good overall strictly as narrative, and although I didn't care much for Chapters 1-4 in Season 2, I did enjoy this final chapter.
And more than anything enjoyed seeing how differently people chose things than I did.
"Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live."
- Norman Cousins
EDIT: Kenny had every right that to believe Jane "knowingly and willingly" killed the baby for her own survival.
And the only reason he thought that was because Jane WANTED HIM TO THINK THAT by saying the baby was dead KNOWING he did not trust her because of her reputation. And at any point in time SHE COULD HAVE TOLD HIM THE BABY WAS OKAY.
And here I made a pretty great point in another post: Why didn't she admit mid-fight that it was all a ruse and that the baby was fine? She could have prevented anyone dying.
Because she wanted Kenny to think she had murdered a baby so she could have him flip out on her and in turn kill him in front of Clem, putting her in the right in Clem's eyes
- Or simply she just wanted to expose Kenny as a hothead so Clem would run away with her right? But wait if her endgame was to run away with Clem, exposing Kenny as a badguy, surely she would have had to leave the baby in the car to die. If she went and got the baby back Clem would clearly find out it was alive and Clem would go running back to Kenny.
So she either WAS going to let the baby die, and/or wanted to kill Kenny from the start
EDIT:
Jane knew her plan could have only had 2 outcomes.
PLAN: Jane manipulates Kenny to try and expose his temper in order to win over Clementine so she would side with her and they could leave together.
OUTCOMES:
1. Jane exposed what a hothead Kenny was, fight, nobody died, and Clem sided with Jane like she wanted because she saw Kenny as crazy. But now Jane would have had to leave the baby to die in the car because if she went to get him Clem would have discovered what a monster she is and went back to Kenny with AJ.
2. Jane would have exposed Kenny's temper, got in the fight, and won and killed Kenny. Having won and clearly showing how crazy Kenny was, she would have gotten Clem to side with her. BUT Now with Kenny dead, Jane still, could not have gone back to get AJ because Clem would have seen her as an even bigger monster if Kenny died and Clem would have run away, so she would have once again had to let AJ to die.
The only outcomes for her plan was to have killed Kenny after showing Clem his rage, or have him live and leave exposing his temper to Clementine, either way, AJ would have had to die as well in both scenarios.
Both AJ and Kenny could not have existed in Jane's plan one of them had to die.
Comments
Maybe people saved her because she was nice to Clem and saved her from drowning in freezing cold waters and rushed to get her warmed up while Kenny was busy beating the shit out of a kid for not having a nicer house.
I totally agree with you.... 100% agree with you......
I LOVE KENNY...... look I know Kenny does have his moments like when he was yelling a Clementine... but.... in the end.... he treats Clementine like his daughter.... My ending was with Kenny and I left the wellington...... I didn't want Clementine being with Jane..... Jane would probly let Clementine die..... like... she left her sister to die because her sister couldn't move... but still, you don't just let your sister die.... and she put a baby in danger just to prove to Clementine that Kenny is a crazy guy.........
I know that Kenny as lost it a little but... I trust Kenny.... look at the way he treats A.J..... you can tell that Kenny is a loving man that wants to protect Clementine and A.J.....
TeamKennyForLife
I gotta say..... even though im a Kenny fan......you do have a point there haha
I'm interested in characters that have the will to survive. Jane showed me that at the end of episode 3 and in episode 4. As far as that goes not that I agree with what she did, the point did get across. I liked Kenny and all, but he was just too bossy and not to understanding for me. Jane may be a psycho bitch to everyone else, but I still trust her. She just really showed the most interest in Clem throughout the few episodes and stuff xD That's just my reasoning. I'm also like a HUGE Jane fanboy ._.
I always thought that Russian man was in his 20s or at least late teens.
Regardless, when his gang started blowing everyone away I stopped caring very much about him.
One thing about this whole game that bothered me unlike the first one (other than the manufactured conflict) was that you were in Clementine's shoes the whole game (sure that's fine).
But for the sake of the game, you were still burdened with everyone's problems, had to solve their moral dilemmas for them, had to let them unload their problem on you, blame you, volunteered into danger just to give the player gameplay etc. I found it all a bit silly because Clementine is what, 10 years old?
And the fact she had to endure all those things just to continue the narrative with you as the lead and continue the "choice" gameplay, was a bit silly.
Leaving her sister behind was clearly not something she did lightly. She did it at the absolute last moment when the other choice was to stay and die, after doing her best to keep her alive for months. The memory clearly haunts her. Unlike, say, Kenny, who can determinately plan to leave Lee behind and never once apologize for it, only mumbling something resembling one when Lee initiates it.
I'm not defending Jane, though. Her point of view on Sarah pissed me off because it was not the same situation as her sister even though she tried to make it out to be, especially in that second death scene where her only reasoning to not save Sarah is because she doesn't want to risk herself for another clearly in need of help.
Not that anybody in the group actually gave a shit about Sarah besides Carlos anyway... -_-
It's kind of inconsistent to defend Kenny with the fact that we never saw Jane at her own worst moments, but then put blame on her for the same thing. You don't know what she's gone through, or the people she's lost. Her mentality, fucked up as it is, clearly came about because of repeated losses, the most notable being her sister.
And despite her philosophy, Jane did care about Clementine and would never leave her behind. This was made clear to us so as to make the final choice harder. It ultimately came down to seeing Kenny at his absolute worst while not having the full story. Of course, there is also the reasoning that Kenny had to be put down already so as to put him out of his own misery already.
As for my part in this, they were both idiots and I stuck with neither of them.
Loved that '"sexy" androgynous, 'hurt', loner female', eh :P
Meh, some people preferred her out of the two nutcases. Seems fair enough.
Why can't we choose to save who we want to save?
Is that too much to ask?
Yeah I finally saw all the endings, I definitely think saving Kenny then letting him leave Clem and AJ at the city was probably the best and most heartfelt ending.
Especially the fact that the place actually existed - it was like salvation, and he had to sacrifice himself so they could get in.
Because she is better than Kenny. He reminds me of an abusive husband.
Most humans are inherently gullible. You'd be surprised at the number of people that fall for pyramid schemes.
The most probable reason is the person is desperate for money/ they are just dumb.
With my ending....... I had to stay with Kenny... I left the wellington and stayed with Kenny.... I couldn't leave Kenny haha... but I cried my eyes out with that ending haha it was very well written by TellTale
Mmm... she was such a terrible person time and time again strictly thinking of herself I couldn't possibly have saved her.
Kenny having lost his son, wife, etc, still tried to help people
Jane having gone through less continued to WANT to abandon them
Kenny was plenty apologetic and haunted by his decisions in this one, even remembering Lee quite a few times.
The fact that one of them had to die strictly because she wanted to manipulate him, was sick.
If by that you mean why did I ask this question, please feel free not to respond to it.
That depends on how you put it.
Simplemindedness leads to making bad decisions.
At the end of the day it's still gullibility.
Because I wanted to prevent murder? Regardless of who was under that knife, be it friend or foe, I was not going to sit idly by and let someone murder another being.
Also Kenny was shown to have been unstable throughout the entirety of season 2. I didn't want end up with him if that would lead to more of his senseless violence.
Exactly.
And now I question the people who came in contact with an Ebola patient on why they have to fly to their home country.
Do they not know the deadliness of Ebola?
Define 'better'
Though I agree he is probably depicted as an abusive man, he was not abusive towards his family, he cared for them deeply, and Clem and AJ.
As I stated before. Jane;
She is such a despicable and evil human being.
I can't help but feel most people saved her because she was a woman, a lot of women players save dher because she was displayed as the abused woman (which she was not), and for the male gamers they fell in love with her....
Indeed, and sex sells, even when sex isn't being sold.
Like how an attractive woman can automatically make sales, I feel it is her being a woman was the main reason she was saved.
Like in season 1.
Mmm...but if not for her manipulation it would never have come to that, and at any point in the fight she could have said AJ was not harmed.
And it was perfectly reasonable for Kenny to assume Jane murdered the baby/sacrificed it, given her inhumane history, uncaringness for human life, and only caring about her own survival.
And his instability didn't bother me nearly as much as Jane's selfishness and staunch uncaring for anyone, she's evil.
Just like in season 1
I didn't save Jane because I fell in love with her, she was just the wiser of the two. Kenny was clearly loosing it, about to murder someone over an apparent accident. Jane just wanted to show Clem how dangerous Kenny was. Staying with someone who is 'it's my way or the highway' like Kenny was isn't smart.
We don't know of the manipulation when making that choice for the first time so none of that information is relevant. We can only justify the choice based on the information we had at the time.
I'm with Dojo - very simply to prevent a murder. Like her or not, I'm not cool with murder and so wanted to prevent it.
And it was perfectly reasonable for Kenny to assume Jane murdered the baby/sacrificed it, given her inhumane history, uncaringness for human life, and only caring about her own survival/doing anything to survive.
And I really did assume Jane sacrificed the baby to save herself because that's who she was. 1. She left her sister behind 2. She wanted to leave that other girl with the glasses to die (even though she was right next to her and could be convinced to try and save her and STILL get away unscathed) 3. She wanted to leave baby behind before 4. She wanted to leave the pregnant mom behind 5. She wanted to leave Luke behind 6. She wanted to leave Kenny behind 7. She wanted to probably leave others behind too that I forgot 8. She DID LEAVE everyone behind
Regardless of whether or not she manipulated the fight, I had no knowledge of that at the time. I'm also wondering if the fight hadn't happened, would it just happen later? Would Kenny have found a reason to kill someone else?
Also, what do you mean by "Just like in season 1"
Sacrificed it? I think we're being just a little overdramatic here. Nevertheless, if you think it's wrong that she would have led to the death of a human being, then being cool with actively killing a human being shouldn't be the obvious solution. If you're cool with killing, you're cool with killing so welcome to Jane's club.
And it was perfectly reasonable for Kenny to assume Jane murdered the baby/sacrificed it, given her inhumane history, uncaringness for human life, and only caring about her own survival/doing anything to survive.
And I really did assume Jane sacrificed the baby to save herself because that's who she was. 1. She left her sister behind 2. She wanted to leave that other girl with the glasses to die (even though she was right next to her and could be convinced to try and save her and STILL get away unscathed) 3. She wanted to leave baby behind before 4. She wanted to leave the pregnant mom behind 5. She wanted to leave Luke behind 6. She wanted to leave Kenny behind 7. She wanted to probably leave others behind too that I forgot 8. She DID LEAVE everyone behind
In season 1 when like 80-90% of people were given the opportunity to save 2 characters they didn't know and they all chose to save the reporter girl over the fat tech guy.
I think the Carley/Doug choice was informed more by the amount of opportunities Telltale gave us to get to know Carley and not Doug. I felt already familiar with Carley at that point. I knew nothing of Doug.
You wanna talk about saving people? Really?
Did it ever accur to your fat skull that Kenny was far away from Clem on the ice incident because he had to chase an escaping enemy?
How overly dramatic? It was clear the story was set up to make you believe that she sacrificed it which then led to the conflict.
By sacrifice I assume let a walker chomp on it so she could get away.
What exactly do you mean by this? Please articulate your point better.
"led to the death of a human" is too conspicuous, The thinking was she willingly and knowingly killed the baby to survive.
Which I found Kenny killing her justifiable, and given her inhumane past, and open willingness to let others die so she can survive, then even more so , yes.
I think that the reason why so many people saved Jane is because in those kind of situations you usually think about helping the person that is in a weak position.Of course for some people it could be because they hated Kenny and prefered to stay with Jane. But I think that for many people it was just about preventing someone from being killed. I think that if the situation was reversed and it was Jane that was about to kill Kenny, many people would've shot Jane instead. It's just that at the moment you just think about saving the person that is in danger because it's the most logical thing to do.
Not so long ago, Kenny's VA said on his ask.fm that they added the moment where Kenny is about to stab Jane after they realised that before not many people chose to shoot Kenny.
What I'm saying is Kenny is willingly and knowingly killing Jane and you're clearly all for it. Even if Jane did that (she didn't), you're being complicit in Kenny doing it (and he did). You are being part of exactly what you accuse Jane of and yet she didn't actually do it.
You're that moment in Falling Down with Michael Douglas. "I'm the bad guy...?"
Very nice.
It's Morality/Sentience/Humanity/Sapience VS Survival Instinct
Kenny: Morality/Humanity
Jane: Survival
For me it was just a moral choice
I just felt really disturbed watching Kenny beat up and kill a women so I saved Jane just for that reason but my ending I chose to go alone as I couldn't allow Kenny to beat up and kill a women or be able forgive Jane for making me kill my friend over her test on kenny
No, you're looking at it wrong and speciously.
Kenny had every right that to believe Jane "knowingly and willingly" killed the baby for her own survival.
And the only reason he thought that was because Jane WANTED HIM TO THINK THAT by saying the baby was dead KNOWING he did not trust her because of her reputation.
And at any point in time SHE COULD HAVE TOLD HIM THE BABY WAS OKAY.
Yeah, you're missing the point. No matter what Kenny believes, he is "knowingly and willingly" killing Jane. And you're cool with that. In fact the desire to kill is so strong, it seems you can't even understand why someone wouldn't want to murder her. You are cool with murder in this scenario.
So even if Jane killed the baby for sport (reminder: she didn't), you're in that club here. You're in the group with the killers.