Please if you believe me to be a troll, leave my thread, I have explained myself so many times and you continue to troll me.
Just leave this thread? Unfollow it? You will continue in peace, and I can reply to people who are not trolls.
My comprehension is fine and I've seen this post. It doesn't justify Kenny going on the attack before she could even get a word out and it doesn't justify him killing her. In my playthrough, he charged her. She tried to fight him off and he killed her. Clem asked him to stop and listen and his response was, I'm done listening. He had no right to murder someone out of rage and that is the reaso I stopped him.
Ahh I hope your comprehension is better than those two, because here is the initial response and the holy grail info afterwards that makes t… morehe killing justified.
Kenny had every right that to believe Jane "knowingly and willingly" killed the baby for her own survival.
And the only reason he thought that was because Jane WANTED HIM TO THINK THAT by saying the baby was dead KNOWING he did not trust her because of her reputation. And at any point in time SHE COULD HAVE TOLD HIM THE BABY WAS OKAY. And here I made a pretty great point in another post: Why didn't she admit mid-fight that it was all a ruse and that the baby was fine? She could have prevented anyone dying. Because she wanted Kenny to think she had murdered a baby so she could have him flip out on her and in turn kill him in front of Clem, putting her in the right in Clem's eyes - Or simply she just wanted to expose Kenny as a hothead so Clem would run away with her right… [view original content]
This was because of the insults I laid on you prior correct? You were screaming obscenities at me the entire time, and I had already answered your question, and the answer to your question is even in my OP at the very top.
So you can just troll everybody else? No bro. I'm gonna call you out on it so that they don't waste their time and feed you more.
You'r… moree pretty good at trolling. You got "me" worked up, as you were trying to do (Hey! Kind of like how Jane tries to get Kenny worked up! lol). I'd rather this forum not be bogged down with troll attempts though, even if they are cleverly crafted.
He's posting to get a rise out of people, not to actually debate anything. He's trying to frustrate people for the sake of frustrating them. That's what trolling is.
Woops! Just realized that wasn't a response to me.
Yes, the OP is misusing the word "troll" and he's doing it on purpose because "he" is trolling
Well you can't argue about options you don't have in the game, lol.
If you could I would have left Jane as soon as she started creating dissent in the group by calling out who is weak and saying they should be abandoned.
This was because of the insults I laid on you prior correct? You were screaming obscenities at me the entire time, and I had already answered your question, and the answer to your question is even in my OP at the very top.
Given her history it is correct for him to assume the baby was dead and his response (given her incredibly evil history) was perfectly fine because both he and I and many others believed she sacrificed the baby. She even said long before this that she wanted to ditch the baby and the pregnant woman.
Clem asked him to stop and listen and his response was, I'm done listening
She has a very same dialogue which was Clem asking her to stop and she says forget it, and continues to rush at him with a knife.
I believe she killed the baby, and she would have killed the baby either way, so I chose not to stop Kenny.
My comprehension is fine and I've seen this post. It doesn't justify Kenny going on the attack before she could even get a word out and it d… moreoesn't justify him killing her. In my playthrough, he charged her. She tried to fight him off and he killed her. Clem asked him to stop and listen and his response was, I'm done listening. He had no right to murder someone out of rage and that is the reaso I stopped him.
He's posting to get a rise out of people, not to actually debate anything. He's trying to frustrate people for the sake of frustrating them… more. That's what trolling is.
Woops! Just realized that wasn't a response to me.
Yes, the OP is misusing the word "troll" and he's doing it on purpose because "he" is trolling
Because Clem was like "yeah, I can totally take this one." Jane saw Clem take on several walkers at night like nobody's business back at Carver's camp. How was she supposed to know that one single walker slowly approaching her in broad daylight when she was fully prepared to deal with it would have proven fatal?
Please stop...an emotional sacrifice is still a sacrifice even by definition.
Yes you are trolling me because you are debating incorrect semantics.
sacrifice (verb): give up (something important or valued) for the sake of other considerations:
You mean you saved a woman who murdered a baby? That was the thought at the time.
At any point she could have stopped the conflict by saying she was just manipulating him and that the baby was fine.
How is that a stretch? If one of your group members came back without a gun, wouldn't you ask them what happened to it? And if you were robb… moreed of your gun and your group members asked you about it, wouldn't you tell them? I doubt he was unwillingly with that group, although he did seem to indicate that it was his group's idea to rob us, not his ("They are not telling me to ask"). And just because his sister needs pain meds doesn't mean that she's necessarily in constant pain all the time, so that fact that she seemed relatively fine during the brief confrontation doesn't mean a whole lot.
I'm not going to bring all of the emotional and logical baggage into my answer because it wasn't there when I made my decision. Somebody was about to kill someone else. I wanted to put a stop to it. Shooting Kenny was the only option that provided that outcome. That's all there was to it.
I believe it to be a safe assumption regardless.
And Jane's only two intentions were to either kill Kenny to get Clem to come with her by making him blow up so that Jane looks like the victim, or by killing Kenny and letting the baby die, or just letting the baby die and Kenny survives but Clem goes with Jane and they all part ways because if Clem were to go with Jane with Kenny alive, she couldn't have gone back and retreived the baby otherwise Clem would have found out she was lying and ran to Kenny.
A lot of people who saved Jane will say that they don't condone murder. Funny. By shooting Kenny, you're also condoning indirect termination which is what Jane did. She engineered the entire plan to make Kenny look like a lunatic and in Clementine's eyes, have a reason to "Put that crusty piece of shit out of his misery" once he started to lose his temper. You're condoning murder one way or the other. Telling me that "Kenny's was outright murder" is total BS. It doesn't matter how you do it as long as you're getting someone killed and a second person is doing nothing about it. Face it, Clementine is accomplice of homicide no matter what we choose.
You know what I don't condone? The type of behavior Jane exhibited during the entire scene. I don't agree one bit with the idea of "Manipulate me into thinking my friend is a lost cause and it's all fine. I'll get involved and assassinate him once he's about to beat your lungs out for being such a egotistical scumbag." To me, shooting Kenny meant giving Jane a huge high five for her actions. Even if you leave her afterwards, she still gets to live and have a shot at something better. Kenneth ends up dead because of her.
That's why we all have opinions, though. Why should I even care if people went with Jane or not? They're perfectly free to do so. In my mind, I made the right decision. I'm sure they feel the same way.
Well, yeah. I wasn't debating that. They clearly said that they wanted to take the group's things. Clem speculates that they wanted to "get even" with her group. It was just "Hey, we have guns. That other group fucked with one of ours. Let's fuck with them." The fact that it was just one pistol doesn't matter. They're obviously not just going to hold the other group up and just take back what's theirs.
It was, since general meaning of word "sacrifice" is dying to save someone else or in this situation it would be losing your place in safe haven so someone else would get there.
It wasn't misused
sacrifice (verb): give up (something important or valued) for the sake of other considerations:
You yourself said Kenny was giving up Clementine.
That other group fucked with one of ours. Let's fuck with them." The fact that it was just one pistol doesn't matter. They're obviously not just going to hold the other group up and just take back what's theirs.
We agree on that, regardless it makes me have no empathy for the young man and the way Kenny treated him because they just wanted to rob Clem's group and he was responsible for leading the trap, and giving information where they are, and he was the direct cause for all the dead.
Seriously I am starting to forget what we're arguing about, I have tons of other people hounding me in this thread, but we seem to have been on the same wave for a while now.
Well, yeah. I wasn't debating that. They clearly said that they wanted to take the group's things. Clem speculates that they wanted to "get … moreeven" with her group. It was just "Hey, we have guns. That other group fucked with one of ours. Let's fuck with them." The fact that it was just one pistol doesn't matter. They're obviously not just going to hold the other group up and just take back what's theirs.
All of this assumes knowledge of Jane's plan, which we don't have on our first play through and the characters don't have in the story. Kenny with the knife at Jane's chest is in front of Clem. All the Jane stuff comes out afterwards, which is why some of us shot Kenny but left Jane. So no, I don't see it as condoning murder no matter which we choose because one of those is not an informed choice. Clem can only act on the information she has.
A lot of people who saved Jane will say that they don't condone murder. Funny. By shooting Kenny, you're also condoning indirect termination… more which is what Jane did. She engineered the entire plan to make Kenny look like a lunatic and in Clementine's eyes, have a reason to "Put that crusty piece of shit out of his misery" once he started to lose his temper. You're condoning murder one way or the other. Telling me that "Kenny's was outright murder" is total BS. It doesn't matter how you do it as long as you're getting someone killed and a second person is doing nothing about it. Face it, Clementine is accomplice of homicide no matter what we choose.
You know what I don't condone? The type of behavior Jane exhibited during the entire scene. I don't agree one bit with the idea of "Manipulate me into thinking my friend is a lost cause and it's all fine. I'll get involved and assassinate him once he's about to beat your lungs out for being such … [view original content]
No that has never in the history of English been the general meaning of sacrifice.
For example:
"working hard doesn't mean sacrificing your social life"
"I sacrificed a lot of family time to get that promotion"
"Sacrificing my vacation days was worth it to get to go to Paris"
See. I'm not trying to be mean here, but you are wrong on the meaning of sacrifice.
It was, since general meaning of word "sacrifice" is dying to save someone else or in this situation it would be losing your place in safe haven so someone else would get there.
No that has never in the history of English been the general meaning of sacrifice.
For example:
"working hard doesn't mean sacrificing … moreyour social life"
"I sacrificed a lot of family time to get that promotion"
"Sacrificing my vacation days was worth it to get to go to Paris"
See. I'm not trying to be mean here, but you are wrong on the meaning of sacrifice.
I believe we were discussing whether or not Arvo was lying about being robbed and I believe that we've established that he wasn't. And like I said, it didn't appear that he was leading the trap, since he was pretty much just acting as the distraction and translator. He didn't intend for anyone to die on either side, he didn't shoot anybody, and he tried to quell things when he realized that the group had a baby. He's far from blameless for what happened, but Season 1 made it pretty damn clear that that was no reason to treat somebody like garbage. You would think that Kenny would have learned that lesson with Ben, but I guess not.
That other group fucked with one of ours. Let's fuck with them." The fact that it was just one pistol doesn't matter. They're obviously not … morejust going to hold the other group up and just take back what's theirs.
We agree on that, regardless it makes me have no empathy for the young man and the way Kenny treated him because they just wanted to rob Clem's group and he was responsible for leading the trap, and giving information where they are, and he was the direct cause for all the dead.
Seriously I am starting to forget what we're arguing about, I have tons of other people hounding me in this thread, but we seem to have been on the same wave for a while now.
Aren't you assuming she had no intentions of killing Kenny too? Make assumptions is all we can do when we don't have the answers. I don't know what you're possibly getting at.
Dude...by that point, Jane is either a "Babykiller" or the mastermind behind that plan. There's no spinning it around. If you want to stick with her, fine. But at least tell it like it is.
I stayed with Kenny and watched him murder Jane. Therefore, I'm his accomplice. There's not much else to it.
All of this assumes knowledge of Jane's plan, which we don't have on our first play through and the characters don't have in the story. Kenn… morey with the knife at Jane's chest is in front of Clem. All the Jane stuff comes out afterwards, which is why some of us shot Kenny but left Jane. So no, I don't see it as condoning murder no matter which we choose because one of those is not an informed choice. Clem can only act on the information she has.
^ This OP. I can't see why people saved Jane either. She wanted to abandon the baby, then pretend it was dead just for the sake of proving a point. I bet you one of Rick's companions in the show claimed to get a baby he had been looking after killed, he would of done the same as Kenny. So if your excuse is Kenny was losing it or not that stable. Look at Rick Grimes, they're at the same level. In the end, if you go with Kenny. He's a good man and tries to do what's best for Clementine. Lee would want you to always have his back.
All of this assumes knowledge of Jane's plan, which we don't have on our first play through and the characters don't have in the story. Kenn… morey with the knife at Jane's chest is in front of Clem. All the Jane stuff comes out afterwards, which is why some of us shot Kenny but left Jane. So no, I don't see it as condoning murder no matter which we choose because one of those is not an informed choice. Clem can only act on the information she has.
^ This OP. I can't see why people saved Jane either. She wanted to abandon the baby, then pretend it was dead just for the sake of proving a… more point. I bet you one of Rick's companions in the show claimed to get a baby he had been looking after killed, he would of done the same as Kenny. So if your excuse is Kenny was losing it or not that stable. Look at Rick Grimes, they're at the same level. In the end, if you go with Kenny. He's a good man and tries to do what's best for Clementine. Lee would want you to always have his back.
I didn't stick with her. That was my point - I shot Kenny to prevent him murdering her and then left her when I found out about her whacked-out plan. But we don't know anything about that plan as it is playing out unless we've read spoilers (I hadn't, and Clem doesn't). We don't know what happened to AJ. At no point up until after we make that choice are we given even the slightest bit of information on that. The one piece of information we have is that Kenny is about to kill Jane so that's the information I acted on.
Aren't you assuming she had no intentions of killing Kenny too? Make assumptions is all we can do when we don't have the answers. I don't kn… moreow what you're possibly getting at.
Dude...by that point, Jane is either a "Babykiller" or the mastermind behind that plan. There's no spinning it around. If you want to stick with her, fine. But at least tell it like it is.
I stayed with Kenny and watched him murder Jane. Therefore, I'm his accomplice. There's not much else to it.
Ah. So is this really just coming down to a KvJ discussion? Is this all the thread is? Because there is one big thread for that and, if that's what this is, you should be posting in there.
So do you support Kenny over Jane now knowing that Jane was manipulating him to get him/unintentionally the baby killed?
I like Kenny, li… moreke others, given her history did not believe a single word she said and did not stop Kenny. And it turned out we were right.
Comments
You are misusing the word "troll"
Atleast read a dictionary for once.
Notice Jane watching as the zombie approaches Clementine, lol.
My comprehension is fine and I've seen this post. It doesn't justify Kenny going on the attack before she could even get a word out and it doesn't justify him killing her. In my playthrough, he charged her. She tried to fight him off and he killed her. Clem asked him to stop and listen and his response was, I'm done listening. He had no right to murder someone out of rage and that is the reaso I stopped him.
This was because of the insults I laid on you prior correct? You were screaming obscenities at me the entire time, and I had already answered your question, and the answer to your question is even in my OP at the very top.
He's posting to get a rise out of people, not to actually debate anything. He's trying to frustrate people for the sake of frustrating them. That's what trolling is.
Woops! Just realized that wasn't a response to me.
Yes, the OP is misusing the word "troll" and he's doing it on purpose because "he" is trolling
Or they ya know, just played the game for the first time?
Yeah you are right should not let my problems with the game interfere in the argument.
I responded to your insults and copy/paste style trolling with obscenities, yes; as you wanted me to. It got me good.
Good job
It's rude to say that all of us here are trolls.
Just sayin'
Why reply to this one now?
Given her history it is correct for him to assume the baby was dead and his response (given her incredibly evil history) was perfectly fine because both he and I and many others believed she sacrificed the baby. She even said long before this that she wanted to ditch the baby and the pregnant woman.
She has a very same dialogue which was Clem asking her to stop and she says forget it, and continues to rush at him with a knife.
I believe she killed the baby, and she would have killed the baby either way, so I chose not to stop Kenny.
Continue to troll me, I am in the right, we both know it.
Problems you can't change in the game.
Passive aggressive trolling, nice.
And you're accusations are wrong.
Because Clem was like "yeah, I can totally take this one." Jane saw Clem take on several walkers at night like nobody's business back at Carver's camp. How was she supposed to know that one single walker slowly approaching her in broad daylight when she was fully prepared to deal with it would have proven fatal?
Common.... That's like 1990's trolling right there.
"I'm in the right. We both know it." is a CLASSIC troll line. Try again. You're slipping.
Then call it emotional sacrifice and stop misusing word "sacrifice" to prevent confusion.
You wanna know what clued me in initially?
You calling other people trolls for no reason. That's a classic troll "mistake."
Other than that you were doing OK before
It wasn't misused
sacrifice (verb): give up (something important or valued) for the sake of other considerations:
You yourself said Kenny was giving up Clementine.
She never said she killed AJ, she said she accidently lost him or summat. Kenny decided to assume that meany she purposely killed the baby
To risk confronting another armed group to recover a single pistol?
Seems unlikely.
More that they wanted to rob Clems group
I'm not going to bring all of the emotional and logical baggage into my answer because it wasn't there when I made my decision. Somebody was about to kill someone else. I wanted to put a stop to it. Shooting Kenny was the only option that provided that outcome. That's all there was to it.
I believe it to be a safe assumption regardless.
And Jane's only two intentions were to either kill Kenny to get Clem to come with her by making him blow up so that Jane looks like the victim, or by killing Kenny and letting the baby die, or just letting the baby die and Kenny survives but Clem goes with Jane and they all part ways because if Clem were to go with Jane with Kenny alive, she couldn't have gone back and retreived the baby otherwise Clem would have found out she was lying and ran to Kenny.
A lot of people who saved Jane will say that they don't condone murder. Funny. By shooting Kenny, you're also condoning indirect termination which is what Jane did. She engineered the entire plan to make Kenny look like a lunatic and in Clementine's eyes, have a reason to "Put that crusty piece of shit out of his misery" once he started to lose his temper. You're condoning murder one way or the other. Telling me that "Kenny's was outright murder" is total BS. It doesn't matter how you do it as long as you're getting someone killed and a second person is doing nothing about it. Face it, Clementine is accomplice of homicide no matter what we choose.
You know what I don't condone? The type of behavior Jane exhibited during the entire scene. I don't agree one bit with the idea of "Manipulate me into thinking my friend is a lost cause and it's all fine. I'll get involved and assassinate him once he's about to beat your lungs out for being such a egotistical scumbag." To me, shooting Kenny meant giving Jane a huge high five for her actions. Even if you leave her afterwards, she still gets to live and have a shot at something better. Kenneth ends up dead because of her.
That's why we all have opinions, though. Why should I even care if people went with Jane or not? They're perfectly free to do so. In my mind, I made the right decision. I'm sure they feel the same way.
Well, yeah. I wasn't debating that. They clearly said that they wanted to take the group's things. Clem speculates that they wanted to "get even" with her group. It was just "Hey, we have guns. That other group fucked with one of ours. Let's fuck with them." The fact that it was just one pistol doesn't matter. They're obviously not just going to hold the other group up and just take back what's theirs.
It was, since general meaning of word "sacrifice" is dying to save someone else or in this situation it would be losing your place in safe haven so someone else would get there.
We agree on that, regardless it makes me have no empathy for the young man and the way Kenny treated him because they just wanted to rob Clem's group and he was responsible for leading the trap, and giving information where they are, and he was the direct cause for all the dead.
Seriously I am starting to forget what we're arguing about, I have tons of other people hounding me in this thread, but we seem to have been on the same wave for a while now.
All of this assumes knowledge of Jane's plan, which we don't have on our first play through and the characters don't have in the story. Kenny with the knife at Jane's chest is in front of Clem. All the Jane stuff comes out afterwards, which is why some of us shot Kenny but left Jane. So no, I don't see it as condoning murder no matter which we choose because one of those is not an informed choice. Clem can only act on the information she has.
No that has never in the history of English been the general meaning of sacrifice.
For example:
"working hard doesn't mean sacrificing your social life"
"I sacrificed a lot of family time to get that promotion"
"Sacrificing my vacation days was worth it to get to go to Paris"
See. I'm not trying to be mean here, but you are wrong on the meaning of sacrifice.
[removed]
In this context, you are wrong to use word sacrifice.
I believe we were discussing whether or not Arvo was lying about being robbed and I believe that we've established that he wasn't. And like I said, it didn't appear that he was leading the trap, since he was pretty much just acting as the distraction and translator. He didn't intend for anyone to die on either side, he didn't shoot anybody, and he tried to quell things when he realized that the group had a baby. He's far from blameless for what happened, but Season 1 made it pretty damn clear that that was no reason to treat somebody like garbage. You would think that Kenny would have learned that lesson with Ben, but I guess not.
Because my gut reaction was to stop Kenny from stabbing her. I love Kenny but I´m okay with my choice.
Aren't you assuming she had no intentions of killing Kenny too? Make assumptions is all we can do when we don't have the answers. I don't know what you're possibly getting at.
Dude...by that point, Jane is either a "Babykiller" or the mastermind behind that plan. There's no spinning it around. If you want to stick with her, fine. But at least tell it like it is.
I stayed with Kenny and watched him murder Jane. Therefore, I'm his accomplice. There's not much else to it.
^ This OP. I can't see why people saved Jane either. She wanted to abandon the baby, then pretend it was dead just for the sake of proving a point. I bet you one of Rick's companions in the show claimed to get a baby he had been looking after killed, he would of done the same as Kenny. So if your excuse is Kenny was losing it or not that stable. Look at Rick Grimes, they're at the same level. In the end, if you go with Kenny. He's a good man and tries to do what's best for Clementine. Lee would want you to always have his back.
So do you support Kenny over Jane now knowing that Jane was manipulating him to get him/unintentionally the baby killed?
I like Kenny, like others, given her history did not believe a single word she said and did not stop Kenny. And it turned out we were right.
Jane is a good woman also.
I didn't stick with her. That was my point - I shot Kenny to prevent him murdering her and then left her when I found out about her whacked-out plan. But we don't know anything about that plan as it is playing out unless we've read spoilers (I hadn't, and Clem doesn't). We don't know what happened to AJ. At no point up until after we make that choice are we given even the slightest bit of information on that. The one piece of information we have is that Kenny is about to kill Jane so that's the information I acted on.
Because no one gives a fuck about Kenny and Jane.
(I think I should make my own thread about Kenny and Jane)
Ah. So is this really just coming down to a KvJ discussion? Is this all the thread is? Because there is one big thread for that and, if that's what this is, you should be posting in there.