Well I am glad you're not the arbiter of fair punishment then. I think you should only kill in self defence, instead of being this vigilante giving out their twisted view of justice. It is a horrible act, but what gives you the right to be punisher?
No one deserves to have their consciousness terminated for an infinite amount of time, for a finite crime.
No. That's different. The murderer took away someones life without a reason , we kill the murderer for justice , for a suitable punishment. … moreHe deserves to die because he killed someone without a valid reason , we kill him because we have a valid reason. Killing someone for no reason is a horrible act and should not go unpunished / they should get a fair punishments. Getting what you gave , I think that's a fair punishment.
So what did i do now? I gave you good examples which came to my mind. I could give you more examples, if that satisfies you and convinces that im not trying to go off-topic.
He was on Crystal Meth. Here is the article if your interested. Food for thought.
"Meth Harm
SHORT-TERM EFFECTS
* Loss of appetit… moree
* Increased heart rate, blood pressure, body temperature
* Dilation of pupils
* Disturbed sleep patterns
* Nausea
* Bizarre, erratic, sometimes violent behavior
* Hallucinations, hyperexcitability, irritability
* Panic and psychosis
* Convulsions, seizures and death from high doses
LONG-TERM EFFECTS
* Permanent damage to blood vessels of heart and brain, high blood pressure leading to heart attacks, strokes and death
* Liver, kidney and lung damage
* Destruction of tissues in nose if sniffed
* Respiratory (breathing) problems if smoked
* Infectious diseases and abscesses if injected
* Malnutrition, weight loss
* Severe tooth decay
* Disorientation, apathy, confused exhaustion
* Strong psychological dependence
* Psychosis
* Depression
* Damage to the brain similar to Alzheimer’s disease,3 stroke and epilepsy"
Spagetti SAUCE
Another Sauce
Depends on the situation. I definitely wouldn't let them go, but I would let them live even as a prisoner. If I saw they were too much of a danger, I would kill them. But since I'm not a psychopath, I'd shoot them in the head no matter what crime they commited, because I don't really think torture is a human thing to do, and I'm gonna want to hold onto my humanity.
Well I am glad you're not the arbiter of fair punishment then
What's unfair about receiving death if you murdered someone else for no valid reason?
It is a horrible act, but what gives you the right to be punisher?
In the ZA there is no government. But just because there isn't that doesn't mean that we should let people commit acts without consequence. I , infinitely , prefer some justice than none at all. It's a fair thing to do , if you hit someone then you shouldn't bitch about receiving a hit back should you?
No one deserves to have their consciousness terminated for an infinite amount of time, for a finite crime.
That sentence contradicts itself. Finite , yes. But only finite for the murderer. For the victim it is an infinite termination. So if he gave that to the victim , why doesn't he deserve it to?
Well I am glad you're not the arbiter of fair punishment then. I think you should only kill in self defence, instead of being this vigilante… more giving out their twisted view of justice. It is a horrible act, but what gives you the right to be punisher?
No one deserves to have their consciousness terminated for an infinite amount of time, for a finite crime.
Humans are just mammals, it doesn't really matter if the murderer gets punishment or not. They'll die eventually as well. Yeah, they had no right to kill someone, but that doesn't mean they have to die. People make mistakes, take Lee for example. I personally couldn't sleep at night if I knew I killed a person (if not in self defence).
Well I am glad you're not the arbiter of fair punishment then
What's unfair about receiving death if you murdered someone else for n… moreo valid reason?
It is a horrible act, but what gives you the right to be punisher?
In the ZA there is no government. But just because there isn't that doesn't mean that we should let people commit acts without consequence. I , infinitely , prefer some justice than none at all. It's a fair thing to do , if you hit someone then you shouldn't bitch about receiving a hit back should you?
No one deserves to have their consciousness terminated for an infinite amount of time, for a finite crime.
That sentence contradicts itself. Finite , yes. But only finite for the murderer. For the victim it is an infinite termination. So if he gave that to the victim , why doesn't he deserve it to?
it doesn't really matter if the murderer gets punishment or not.
By that logic in , in the real world , it doesn't matter if a criminal goes to prison or not.
Yeah, they had no right to kill someone, but that doesn't mean they have to die
Why not? EYE FOR AN EYE! They took someones life , then they deserve to have their life taken from them.
People make mistakes, take Lee for example
Yes they do. But this is different , this is into the apocalypse. Lee knew he would have got into trouble anyway and he decided that it was worth it. He acknowledged that there would be a consequence for him , yet he did it anyway. But if he were a bad person he wouldn't have taken clem with him. The murderer killed someone and did it because he could get away with it , the person obviously can't have done something that bad. That makes the murderer a bad person.
Let's just agree to disagree yeah?
Humans are just mammals, it doesn't really matter if the murderer gets punishment or not. They'll die … moreeventually as well. Yeah, they had no right to kill someone, but that doesn't mean they have to die. People make mistakes, take Lee for example. I personally couldn't sleep at night if I knew I killed a person (if not in self defence).
I did. But it doesn't matter because even if I were to point it out you wouldn't agree and this wouldn't stop until the ban hammer cracked someone across the face again.
In the real world, a murderer goes to prison to protect society, that isn't necessary in the apocalypse. I prefer not to follow some bronze age rubbish, it'd be impossible to implement. By that logic, you'd rape a rapist then? An eye for an eye, a rape for a rape, a murder for a murder.
Maybe the murderer had a good reason, very few murder for the hell of it. How do you know Lee thought that? No one is beyond reform, but even if some people are, there is no way of knowing. What if the murderer you killed would've gone on to save a little girl from a zombie the next day if you spared his life? You never know.
it doesn't really matter if the murderer gets punishment or not.
By that logic in , in the real world , it doesn't matter if a crimi… morenal goes to prison or not.
Yeah, they had no right to kill someone, but that doesn't mean they have to die
Why not? EYE FOR AN EYE! They took someones life , then they deserve to have their life taken from them.
People make mistakes, take Lee for example
Yes they do. But this is different , this is into the apocalypse. Lee knew he would have got into trouble anyway and he decided that it was worth it. He acknowledged that there would be a consequence for him , yet he did it anyway. But if he were a bad person he wouldn't have taken clem with him. The murderer killed someone and did it because he could get away with it , the person obviously can't have done something that bad. That makes the murderer a bad person.
Yeah, I've seen the effects of method first hand, its crazy stuff. I'd never try it, it really fucked me up and I wasn't even the one doing it.
But I think a second world war was probably going to happen around that time, Germany couldn't have gone on much longer how it was pre world war. And its not like Hitler was the only Nazi
In the real world, a murderer goes to prison to protect society, that isn't necessary in the apocalypse.
Why isn't it?
By that logic, you'd rape a rapist then? An eye for an eye, a rape for a rape, a murder for a murder.
Don't take it too literally. I'm saying if you committed a crime you deserve to have an equal punishment.
Maybe the murderer had a good reason
What could be the good reason?
How do you know Lee thought that?
Thought what? That he knew he would go to prison? Because it's common knowledge , if you commit murder you got to prison.
but even if some people are, there is no way of knowing
I don't think they deserve another chance. Not in the ZA anyway.
What if the murderer you killed would've gone on to save a little girl from a zombie the next day if you spared his life?
How likely is that? It's like saying how do you know a thief isn't going to go off and nurture and protect , with his life , an innocent young child? How do you know that when a murderer says sorry and I won't do anything bad again that he isn't lying? Because it's unlikely , in fact it's chances are little to none.
In the real world, a murderer goes to prison to protect society, that isn't necessary in the apocalypse. I prefer not to follow some bronze … moreage rubbish, it'd be impossible to implement. By that logic, you'd rape a rapist then? An eye for an eye, a rape for a rape, a murder for a murder.
Maybe the murderer had a good reason, very few murder for the hell of it. How do you know Lee thought that? No one is beyond reform, but even if some people are, there is no way of knowing. What if the murderer you killed would've gone on to save a little girl from a zombie the next day if you spared his life? You never know.
I was banned for calling someone sick for prefering to kill person who was defending himself rather than the one that is trying to murder that person. Rather stupid reason for a ban, but what can you do...
Well this is rather subjective matter, since morals are involved, so obviously i might not agree with your view, but you could atleast try.
I did. But it doesn't matter because even if I were to point it out you wouldn't agree and this wouldn't stop until the ban hammer cracked someone across the face again.
You sure about that? I'm pretty sure it was at least partially our conversation because Blind came in and told us to stop with the slander, then you posted a comment after he said that, then he removed that comment and moments later..... hammer.
Fine. I'll give it a try.
"Something heated must have gone down in order for me to have captured them in the first place." The scenario is too vague to specify one thing that may have happened, but undoubtedly something happened. Whether there was a fire fight, a beating, or they just tried to rob us and failed miserably there was something that cause me/my group to capture them in the first place. This could be reason enough for them to hold a grudge and hunt us down out of revenge/spite/what have you. Improbable or not, they could find us; it could happen. And I wouldn't let it.
I was banned for calling someone sick for prefering to kill person who was defending himself rather than the one that is trying to murder th… moreat person. Rather stupid reason for a ban, but what can you do...
Well this is rather subjective matter, since morals are involved, so obviously i might not agree with your view, but you could atleast try.
You sure about that? I'm pretty sure it was at least partially our conversation because Blind came in and told us to stop with the slander, then you posted a comment after he said that, then he removed that comment and moments later..... hammer.
They do tell you the reason for ban and the reason for my ban was from different conversation.
"Something heated must have gone down in order for me to have captured them in the first place." The scenario is too vague to specify one thing that may have happened, but undoubtedly something happened. Whether there was a fire fight, a beating, or they just tried to rob us and failed miserably there was something that cause me/my group to capture them in the first place. This could be reason enough for them to hold a grudge and hunt us down out of revenge/spite/what have you. Improbable or not, they could find us; it could happen. And I wouldn't let it.
Well like ive pointed out more than once, the scenario op is suggesting is rather lazily made. If they simply failed an attack and i got them disarmed, there wouldnt be any point to kill them. But if i killed their people, they would have a motive to kill me and my group, thus i would have motive to kill the rest of them. If no one died or got hurt, there would be no reason to kill them and they wouldnt have any motives to track me down for "revenge".
You have to take into accaunt that some (most) people value their own lives more than others, so they might not even care if someone that was with them died, if that meant they would survive and if they argue about this and show they are reasonable people, then why kill them? People have different ways to survive and i wouldnt judge them, as long as they stay away from me/my people, but if they are just some crazy anarchists, i wouldnt feel safe leaving them alive.
You sure about that? I'm pretty sure it was at least partially our conversation because Blind came in and told us to stop with the slander, … morethen you posted a comment after he said that, then he removed that comment and moments later..... hammer.
Fine. I'll give it a try.
"Something heated must have gone down in order for me to have captured them in the first place." The scenario is too vague to specify one thing that may have happened, but undoubtedly something happened. Whether there was a fire fight, a beating, or they just tried to rob us and failed miserably there was something that cause me/my group to capture them in the first place. This could be reason enough for them to hold a grudge and hunt us down out of revenge/spite/what have you. Improbable or not, they could find us; it could happen. And I wouldn't let it.
Well like ive pointed out more than once, the scenario op is suggesting is rather lazily made. If they simply failed an attack and i got them disarmed, there wouldnt be any point to kill them. But if i killed their people, they would have a motive to kill me and my group, thus i would have motive to kill the rest of them. If no one died or got hurt, there would be no reason to kill them and they wouldnt have any motives to track me down for "revenge".
I disagree.
You have to take into accaunt that some (most) people value their own lives more than others, so they might not even care if someone that was with them died, if that meant they would survive and if they argue about this and show they are reasonable people, then why kill them? People have different ways to survive and i wouldnt judge them, as long as they stay away from me/my people, but if they are just some crazy anarchists, i wouldnt feel safe leaving them alive.
Their way of living is taking from people like me. Or if I let them leave, then perhaps more specifically me. So chances are they wouldn't be leaving.
You sure about that? I'm pretty sure it was at least partially our conversation because Blind came in and told us to stop with the slander, … morethen you posted a comment after he said that, then he removed that comment and moments later..... hammer.
They do tell you the reason for ban and the reason for my ban was from different conversation.
"Something heated must have gone down in order for me to have captured them in the first place." The scenario is too vague to specify one thing that may have happened, but undoubtedly something happened. Whether there was a fire fight, a beating, or they just tried to rob us and failed miserably there was something that cause me/my group to capture them in the first place. This could be reason enough for them to hold a grudge and hunt us down out of revenge/spite/what have you. Improbable or not, they could find us; it could happen. And I wouldn't let it.
Well like ive pointed out more … [view original content]
If there are any victims of their schemes alive, they choose the fate of the bandits.
Depending on the damage of their crime (a thief, in the case of ZA, can be just as horrible as a murderer) depends on their overall punishment. If a rapist raped more than one person, then each person the person has raped, the man loses a body part unnecessary for survival (Starting with their penis, then move on to fingers and toes, eventually plucking out eyeballs and abandoning them if their crime is severe). If we do not know how many he has raped, and he doesn't give us an answer on how many people, we pluck out his eyeballs and disable his hearing, leaving him to die.
If a rapist has claimed to have regret these crimes, forgiveness will be considered if the man proves himself. Until forgiveness is assured, he will be left unarmed with our group and under constant supervision.
Murderers are the same. For each murder the man confesses to, he will either lose an unnecessary part and be set free or have a chance to earn redemption through serving my group.
Thieves, like I said, can sometimes be as bad if not worse than murderers in the case of ZA, so they will be treated the same way.
I think of it as a sort of slave system to pay off debt. Kinda like ancient times with the Israelites; slaves were people who had to pay off debt. So they can pay off their evil debt by doing good and helping my group.
What makes you think that bandits are unable to rational thinking? Why would they risk their lives simply for such emotional based thing as revenge?
Their way of living is taking from people like me. Or if I let them leave, then perhaps more specifically me. So chances are they wouldn't be leaving.
Taking from others so they would survive, which is only rational thing to do. Going for long trip tracking someone, just to have a revenge doesnt feel that wise, considering you spared their lives. I would imagine they would feel some kind of gratitude for that, which might stop them from tracking you down. You have to think "is it worth it?"
Well like ive pointed out more than once, the scenario op is suggesting is rather lazily made. If they simply failed an attack and i got the… morem disarmed, there wouldnt be any point to kill them. But if i killed their people, they would have a motive to kill me and my group, thus i would have motive to kill the rest of them. If no one died or got hurt, there would be no reason to kill them and they wouldnt have any motives to track me down for "revenge".
I disagree.
You have to take into accaunt that some (most) people value their own lives more than others, so they might not even care if someone that was with them died, if that meant they would survive and if they argue about this and show they are reasonable people, then why kill them? People have different ways to survive and i wouldnt judge them, as long as they stay away from me/my people, but if they are just some crazy anarchists, i wouldnt feel safe leaving them alive.
… [view original content]
I wouldn't kill or maim them out of revenge or punishment. In a lawless situation and given how limited supplies are and how desperate people get, that would seem pointless to me. We're not the law.
So for me, it would likely come down to one thing: the danger they present from here. The situation in the OP is pretty vague. If I was putting myself and my group in danger by letting them go (which is likely), I may have to kill or imprison them if possible. Wouldn't want to kill them at all and it would take a lot to get me to go through with it but it would depend on how at risk we were and how desperate we were too.
I killed the prisoner in 400 Days. Regretted it instantly but still chose to do it.
What makes you think that bandits are unable to rational thinking? Why would they risk their lives simply for such emotional based thing as revenge?
A huge premise of TWD is people not being rational and basing judgment on their emotions. Proven time and time again. Sure they may be capable of rational thinking, but it only takes one. Plus bandits probably aren't the most sound when it comes to their mental state, or they would find ways to survive without being detrimental to other survivors.
Taking from others so they would survive, which is only rational thing to do. Going for long trip tracking someone, just to have a revenge doesn't feel that wise, considering you spared their lives. I would imagine they would feel some kind of gratitude for that, which might stop them from tracking you down. You have to think "is it worth it?"
Break this down.
Taking from others so they would survive, which is only rational thing to do.
Not the only rational thing to do.
Going for long trip tracking someone, just to have a revenge doesnt feel that wise, considering you spared their lives.
Ok.
I would imagine they would feel some kind of gratitude for that,
Perhaps, perhaps not.
which might stop them from tracking you down.
Might, might not.
You have to think "is it worth it?"
They have to think that, and I don't control what they think. What I control is not allowing them to think wrong.
I disagree.
What makes you think that bandits are unable to rational thinking? Why would they risk their lives simply for such emoti… moreonal based thing as revenge?
Their way of living is taking from people like me. Or if I let them leave, then perhaps more specifically me. So chances are they wouldn't be leaving.
Taking from others so they would survive, which is only rational thing to do. Going for long trip tracking someone, just to have a revenge doesnt feel that wise, considering you spared their lives. I would imagine they would feel some kind of gratitude for that, which might stop them from tracking you down. You have to think "is it worth it?"
Sure they may be capable of rational thinking, but it only takes one. Plus bandits probably aren't the most sound when it comes to their mental state, or they would find ways to survive without being detrimental to other survivors.
In order for humans to live, other animals and living things must die, so how is killing others humans in order to survive so extreme in za? We have been killing each other to gain something for as long as we have been on this planet. Just because it happens in smaller scale, it doesnt make it any more extreme than americans killing the natives and rob their lands or any war that has happened.
Not the only rational thing to do.
Well obviously. If someone survives or you let them live, they might attack you as revenge and there is always a chance of dying while robbing people.
What makes you think that bandits are unable to rational thinking? Why would they risk their lives simply for such emotional based thing as … morerevenge?
A huge premise of TWD is people not being rational and basing judgment on their emotions. Proven time and time again. Sure they may be capable of rational thinking, but it only takes one. Plus bandits probably aren't the most sound when it comes to their mental state, or they would find ways to survive without being detrimental to other survivors.
Taking from others so they would survive, which is only rational thing to do. Going for long trip tracking someone, just to have a revenge doesn't feel that wise, considering you spared their lives. I would imagine they would feel some kind of gratitude for that, which might stop them from tracking you down. You have to think "is it worth it?"
Break this down.
Taking from others so they would survive, which is only rational t… [view original content]
In order for humans to live, other animals and living things must die, so how is killing others humans in order to survive so extreme in za? We have been killing each other to gain something for as long as we have been on this planet. Just because it happens in smaller scale, it doesnt make it any more extreme than americans killing the natives and rob their lands or any war that has happened.
Alright, not the point.
Well obviously. If someone survives or you let them live, they might attack you as revenge and there is always a chance of dying while robbing people.
Sure they may be capable of rational thinking, but it only takes one. Plus bandits probably aren't the most sound when it comes to their men… moretal state, or they would find ways to survive without being detrimental to other survivors.
In order for humans to live, other animals and living things must die, so how is killing others humans in order to survive so extreme in za? We have been killing each other to gain something for as long as we have been on this planet. Just because it happens in smaller scale, it doesnt make it any more extreme than americans killing the natives and rob their lands or any war that has happened.
Not the only rational thing to do.
Well obviously. If someone survives or you let them live, they might attack you as revenge and there is always a chance of dying while robbing people.
I think making the bandits suffer would cause me to lose my humanity. Doing what Kenny did to Carver would turn me into a monster. I agree its probably the easiest way to lie to myself that I was doing for the group and I did not get enjoyment from it. But the quickest and easiest way would keep emotions from creeping in.
Quick and without judgment is the closest to keeping your humanity
I disagree: It's simply the easiest way, not the fairest and most certainly not the one that will preserve humanity.
Well i just want to know why is it so bad when they kill others in za in order to gain something, while that has been the way humans have always done it, and so does other animals (not all).
Not sure what the point is there.
The point was that there are multiple different ways to survive and be rational.
In order for humans to live, other animals and living things must die, so how is killing others humans in order to survive so extreme in za?… more We have been killing each other to gain something for as long as we have been on this planet. Just because it happens in smaller scale, it doesnt make it any more extreme than americans killing the natives and rob their lands or any war that has happened.
Alright, not the point.
Well obviously. If someone survives or you let them live, they might attack you as revenge and there is always a chance of dying while robbing people.
Not sure what the point is there.
Yeah, I've seen the effects of method first hand, its crazy stuff. I'd never try it, it really fucked me up and I wasn't even the one doing … moreit.
But I think a second world war was probably going to happen around that time, Germany couldn't have gone on much longer how it was pre world war. And its not like Hitler was the only Nazi
Drugs are rather boring and so is alcohol. I just smoke because i need a reason to step out every few hours and want something to do for those 3-4 minutes.
True, but some sort of punishment should be given out so they remember and don't do it again. I guess I could let them go, but I would need to talk to them a bit, and get to know the person.
Sounds like what those Islamic fundamentalists do. You sure they're the best person to emulate?
Far as I'm concerned, if someone hasn't … morekilled or hurt anyone I know then I'll let them go. If they have, they're dead. Why?
Because people hold grudges when you hurt them, and torturing them only creates more hatred. If you're going to be savage, have the decency to finish the job. Pragmatism trumps morality when it comes to dealing with someone who you can't negotiate with.
Well i just want to know why is it so bad when they kill others in za in order to gain something, while that has been the way humans have always done it, and so does other animals (not all).
This isn't the point of the conversation, is it? The morality behind them doing what they do is inconsequential to the debate. What is consequential is that what they do is kill/hurt/steal from others and potentially me. Something I, obviously, don't want to happen to me.
The point was that there are multiple different ways to survive and be rational.
Alright, not the point.
Well i just want to know why is it so bad when they kill others in za in order to gain something, while that… more has been the way humans have always done it, and so does other animals (not all).
Not sure what the point is there.
The point was that there are multiple different ways to survive and be rational.
What is consequential is that what they do is kill/hurt/steal from others and potentially me. Something I, obviously, don't want to happen to me.
If they enjoy doing it, then sure, its a problem to you. If they do it simply to survive, why would they seek revenge if you spare them? It just makes no sense.
Well i just want to know why is it so bad when they kill others in za in order to gain something, while that has been the way humans have al… moreways done it, and so does other animals (not all).
This isn't the point of the conversation, is it? The morality behind them doing what they do is inconsequential to the debate. What is consequential is that what they do is kill/hurt/steal from others and potentially me. Something I, obviously, don't want to happen to me.
The point was that there are multiple different ways to survive and be rational.
Ok so... also not the point then.
What is consequential is that what they do is kill/hurt/steal from others and potentially me. Something I, obviously, don't want to happen t… moreo me.
If they enjoy doing it, then sure, its a problem to you. If they do it simply to survive, why would they seek revenge if you spare them? It just makes no sense.
Leave them to the walkers. Don't waste ammo. They were once people but they did inhumane things. Remember that one prisoner in the comics? The group trusted him but he lied about his sentencing and beheaded Hershel's little girls. You can't trust anyone but the people you know.
Comments
Well I am glad you're not the arbiter of fair punishment then. I think you should only kill in self defence, instead of being this vigilante giving out their twisted view of justice. It is a horrible act, but what gives you the right to be punisher?
No one deserves to have their consciousness terminated for an infinite amount of time, for a finite crime.
Rapists/murderers are too dangerous to let go.
A thief though...I´d be inclined to rob him and then let him go. Then again, he could have a group...
I don't want anything to happen like last time, so I'll just say that how that conversation ended last time is still applicable.
Wow, I wonder how that influenced him decisions. Interesting article.
Depends on the situation. I definitely wouldn't let them go, but I would let them live even as a prisoner. If I saw they were too much of a danger, I would kill them. But since I'm not a psychopath, I'd shoot them in the head no matter what crime they commited, because I don't really think torture is a human thing to do, and I'm gonna want to hold onto my humanity.
To me, it seems like you are just looking for a reason to leave this conversation. Are you not going to answer to my argument about the bandits?
I wouldn't call that insane I would call that wanting to survive. You never know what is going to happen when fists are flying.
What's unfair about receiving death if you murdered someone else for no valid reason?
In the ZA there is no government. But just because there isn't that doesn't mean that we should let people commit acts without consequence. I , infinitely , prefer some justice than none at all. It's a fair thing to do , if you hit someone then you shouldn't bitch about receiving a hit back should you?
That sentence contradicts itself. Finite , yes. But only finite for the murderer. For the victim it is an infinite termination. So if he gave that to the victim , why doesn't he deserve it to?
Just shoot them and get it over with.
It probably made him a paranoid, crazy person. Its sad, could you imagine if the war could have been prevented by a change in "medication."
No, you gave me a reason to leave. I already answered the points you gave.
See our prior discussion for reasons you skipped them.
I asked for motives and you didnt provide any.
Let's just agree to disagree yeah?
Humans are just mammals, it doesn't really matter if the murderer gets punishment or not. They'll die eventually as well. Yeah, they had no right to kill someone, but that doesn't mean they have to die. People make mistakes, take Lee for example. I personally couldn't sleep at night if I knew I killed a person (if not in self defence).
By that logic in , in the real world , it doesn't matter if a criminal goes to prison or not.
Why not? EYE FOR AN EYE! They took someones life , then they deserve to have their life taken from them.
Yes they do. But this is different , this is into the apocalypse. Lee knew he would have got into trouble anyway and he decided that it was worth it. He acknowledged that there would be a consequence for him , yet he did it anyway. But if he were a bad person he wouldn't have taken clem with him. The murderer killed someone and did it because he could get away with it , the person obviously can't have done something that bad. That makes the murderer a bad person.
I did. But it doesn't matter because even if I were to point it out you wouldn't agree and this wouldn't stop until the ban hammer cracked someone across the face again.
In the real world, a murderer goes to prison to protect society, that isn't necessary in the apocalypse. I prefer not to follow some bronze age rubbish, it'd be impossible to implement. By that logic, you'd rape a rapist then? An eye for an eye, a rape for a rape, a murder for a murder.
Maybe the murderer had a good reason, very few murder for the hell of it. How do you know Lee thought that? No one is beyond reform, but even if some people are, there is no way of knowing. What if the murderer you killed would've gone on to save a little girl from a zombie the next day if you spared his life? You never know.
Yeah, I've seen the effects of method first hand, its crazy stuff. I'd never try it, it really fucked me up and I wasn't even the one doing it.
But I think a second world war was probably going to happen around that time, Germany couldn't have gone on much longer how it was pre world war. And its not like Hitler was the only Nazi
Why isn't it?
Don't take it too literally. I'm saying if you committed a crime you deserve to have an equal punishment.
What could be the good reason?
Thought what? That he knew he would go to prison? Because it's common knowledge , if you commit murder you got to prison.
I don't think they deserve another chance. Not in the ZA anyway.
How likely is that? It's like saying how do you know a thief isn't going to go off and nurture and protect , with his life , an innocent young child? How do you know that when a murderer says sorry and I won't do anything bad again that he isn't lying? Because it's unlikely , in fact it's chances are little to none.
I was banned for calling someone sick for prefering to kill person who was defending himself rather than the one that is trying to murder that person. Rather stupid reason for a ban, but what can you do...
Well this is rather subjective matter, since morals are involved, so obviously i might not agree with your view, but you could atleast try.
You sure about that? I'm pretty sure it was at least partially our conversation because Blind came in and told us to stop with the slander, then you posted a comment after he said that, then he removed that comment and moments later..... hammer.
Fine. I'll give it a try.
"Something heated must have gone down in order for me to have captured them in the first place." The scenario is too vague to specify one thing that may have happened, but undoubtedly something happened. Whether there was a fire fight, a beating, or they just tried to rob us and failed miserably there was something that cause me/my group to capture them in the first place. This could be reason enough for them to hold a grudge and hunt us down out of revenge/spite/what have you. Improbable or not, they could find us; it could happen. And I wouldn't let it.
They do tell you the reason for ban and the reason for my ban was from different conversation.
Well like ive pointed out more than once, the scenario op is suggesting is rather lazily made. If they simply failed an attack and i got them disarmed, there wouldnt be any point to kill them. But if i killed their people, they would have a motive to kill me and my group, thus i would have motive to kill the rest of them. If no one died or got hurt, there would be no reason to kill them and they wouldnt have any motives to track me down for "revenge".
You have to take into accaunt that some (most) people value their own lives more than others, so they might not even care if someone that was with them died, if that meant they would survive and if they argue about this and show they are reasonable people, then why kill them? People have different ways to survive and i wouldnt judge them, as long as they stay away from me/my people, but if they are just some crazy anarchists, i wouldnt feel safe leaving them alive.
I disagree.
Their way of living is taking from people like me. Or if I let them leave, then perhaps more specifically me. So chances are they wouldn't be leaving.
If there are any victims of their schemes alive, they choose the fate of the bandits.
Depending on the damage of their crime (a thief, in the case of ZA, can be just as horrible as a murderer) depends on their overall punishment. If a rapist raped more than one person, then each person the person has raped, the man loses a body part unnecessary for survival (Starting with their penis, then move on to fingers and toes, eventually plucking out eyeballs and abandoning them if their crime is severe). If we do not know how many he has raped, and he doesn't give us an answer on how many people, we pluck out his eyeballs and disable his hearing, leaving him to die.
If a rapist has claimed to have regret these crimes, forgiveness will be considered if the man proves himself. Until forgiveness is assured, he will be left unarmed with our group and under constant supervision.
Murderers are the same. For each murder the man confesses to, he will either lose an unnecessary part and be set free or have a chance to earn redemption through serving my group.
Thieves, like I said, can sometimes be as bad if not worse than murderers in the case of ZA, so they will be treated the same way.
I think of it as a sort of slave system to pay off debt. Kinda like ancient times with the Israelites; slaves were people who had to pay off debt. So they can pay off their evil debt by doing good and helping my group.
What makes you think that bandits are unable to rational thinking? Why would they risk their lives simply for such emotional based thing as revenge?
Taking from others so they would survive, which is only rational thing to do. Going for long trip tracking someone, just to have a revenge doesnt feel that wise, considering you spared their lives. I would imagine they would feel some kind of gratitude for that, which might stop them from tracking you down. You have to think "is it worth it?"
I wouldn't kill or maim them out of revenge or punishment. In a lawless situation and given how limited supplies are and how desperate people get, that would seem pointless to me. We're not the law.
So for me, it would likely come down to one thing: the danger they present from here. The situation in the OP is pretty vague. If I was putting myself and my group in danger by letting them go (which is likely), I may have to kill or imprison them if possible. Wouldn't want to kill them at all and it would take a lot to get me to go through with it but it would depend on how at risk we were and how desperate we were too.
I killed the prisoner in 400 Days. Regretted it instantly but still chose to do it.
A huge premise of TWD is people not being rational and basing judgment on their emotions. Proven time and time again. Sure they may be capable of rational thinking, but it only takes one. Plus bandits probably aren't the most sound when it comes to their mental state, or they would find ways to survive without being detrimental to other survivors.
Break this down.
Not the only rational thing to do.
Ok.
Perhaps, perhaps not.
Might, might not.
They have to think that, and I don't control what they think. What I control is not allowing them to think wrong.
I'd probably kill them, spear through the head most effective. Quick and without judgment is the closest to keeping your humanity.
I disagree: It's simply the easiest way, not the fairest and most certainly not the one that will preserve humanity.
In order for humans to live, other animals and living things must die, so how is killing others humans in order to survive so extreme in za? We have been killing each other to gain something for as long as we have been on this planet. Just because it happens in smaller scale, it doesnt make it any more extreme than americans killing the natives and rob their lands or any war that has happened.
Well obviously. If someone survives or you let them live, they might attack you as revenge and there is always a chance of dying while robbing people.
Alright, not the point.
Not sure what the point is there.
I think making the bandits suffer would cause me to lose my humanity. Doing what Kenny did to Carver would turn me into a monster. I agree its probably the easiest way to lie to myself that I was doing for the group and I did not get enjoyment from it. But the quickest and easiest way would keep emotions from creeping in.
Well i just want to know why is it so bad when they kill others in za in order to gain something, while that has been the way humans have always done it, and so does other animals (not all).
The point was that there are multiple different ways to survive and be rational.
I never tried Crystal Meth. I don't think it would be good idea. I've seen the studies, and seen the after maths of teeth decay.
Drugs are rather boring and so is alcohol. I just smoke because i need a reason to step out every few hours and want something to do for those 3-4 minutes.
True, but some sort of punishment should be given out so they remember and don't do it again. I guess I could let them go, but I would need to talk to them a bit, and get to know the person.
This isn't the point of the conversation, is it? The morality behind them doing what they do is inconsequential to the debate. What is consequential is that what they do is kill/hurt/steal from others and potentially me. Something I, obviously, don't want to happen to me.
Ok so... also not the point then.
If they enjoy doing it, then sure, its a problem to you. If they do it simply to survive, why would they seek revenge if you spare them? It just makes no sense.
Never would try it. Addiction runs in my family, and I'm bad enough with video games, don't want to see how bad I'd get with drugs.
And how would I know what drives them? All I know is what could drive them, and what that drive could lead to for me.
Leave them to the walkers. Don't waste ammo. They were once people but they did inhumane things. Remember that one prisoner in the comics? The group trusted him but he lied about his sentencing and beheaded Hershel's little girls. You can't trust anyone but the people you know.