Kenny is a hero?
About: TWD: S02E04 & S02E05
Is Kenny a hero? What do you think?
Facts / Theories:
About: Arvo aka "the Ruskie" aka "shitbird"
- Arvo was planning something to break free and escape.
- Arvo shot Clementine because he thought Clementine killed his alive sister.
- Arvo manipulated the group by provoking Kenny in certain situations.
- (determinant) Arvo lied about the medicines being stolen by Jane and Clementine. (S02E04)
- Arvo tried to hid the medicines from his group when Clementine and Jane were at the obversation deck. (S02E04)
About: Kenny
- Kenny knew something was going on with "the kid" Arvo, but not everyone saw it.
- Kenny was being ruthless against Arvo.
- Kenny always tries to do his best for the group. but his methods aren't always.
About: Jane, Mike and Bonnie
- Jane thinks that Kenny is out of control, and tries to convince the player (Clementine) about this.
- Mike is very easily manipulated.
- Bonnie was acting less caring to Arvo then Mike was.
- Jane and Kenny talked about Kenny's attitude / behavior against Arvo while Clementine was putting pressure on Luke's wound.
I made some video's about this from the "A calm quiet night" scenes. They aren't completely serious, but they all contain certain points that i'm trying to show.
(Yes, they are all basicaly the same / same footage. and the videos suck pretty bad, so don't take them too serious.)
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Comments
Rofl i like how Mike calls him ''it''. So much for caring for an object.
Is Kenny a hero for beating up a teenager ... no.
I don't think he's a hero for what he did to Arvo.
edit:
looked like the picture isn't reachable anymore.
well i guess i should upload another one for the lulz
Mike said:
'Kid was defenseless'
not
'It was defenseless.'
This video has edited out the 'k' lol :P
I know.
But I made it sounded diffrently in the video.
Kenny is not a hero. His actions came from anger.
You can't ignore Arvo's behavior. It's not just some kid. Didn't anyone got the message from season 1? That dialogue wasn't there for nothing. It's important to remember that kind of stuff.
Some even seem to forget that Arvo got us all in this situation. He lied about the medicines and this is what happend.
Yes. That's true. Hes often angry at ones he doesn't trust. It's interesting that they made Kenny look like the bad guy, so the player has an easier choice of choosing between Jane or Kenny at the end. But we can't ignore the fact that Kenny's personality is pretty bad.
I agree that he shouldn't have done that. but in Kenny's position:
Now if you combine that with his attitude, then thats a bad combination.
Also, you need to forget the fact that he's a teenager. You're either alive or dead.
He just tried to protect the group from an outsider, which also happend to be the source of the attack. Arvo isn't just some kid. we will definitely hear more about Arvo in season 3, and everyone that sided by him will feel pretty stupid...
And yeah, he didn't needed to beat Arvo up, he should've done something else to prevent the plans of Arvo.
since the rest of the group didn't even realise that they were being "played" with.
EDIT :
in which you replied:
I already mentioned before:
We have absolutely no context as to why he lied, and I'm not going to make a judgement call on someone without all of the facts.
and the fact that arvo didn't lied about the food comes in good for arvo. Earning the trust of your enemy
Breaking the morale within the group.
You don't have to immediately. But you need to be perceptive about his behavior. You shouldn't side with him, that would be a huge mistake, they will definitely tell you more about Arvo's actions in the next season. Just don't forget what he did to us. If you can think of one good reason why he chose to attack us, and that doesn't includes saving his own ass or supporting his own group; please tell me.
Beating up some kid while his hands are bound, and has a messed up leg, isn't protecting the group.
If his plans were to manipulate the group then they worked because of Kenny, so that makes him less of a hero. The ony way Kenny were to prevent Arvo's "plans" was to not to hit him, hitting him just let the group side with him. So yeah, doing nothing would have prevented Clem from getting shot, and almost losing the truck, Kenny isn't a hero in these episodes.
My reply:
Yes. but Kenny tried to protect the group, his methods failed because of anger.
True, but as I said before; His methods aren't favourable.
That's not true though. Arvo shouted: "NOOO" when Clementine shot his undead sister. Arvo must've been too stupid to realise his sister was already dead. He gave her the evil eye afterwards, and I knew that he was going to hurt Clementine the moment he has the chance to do it.
Kenny should've used a diffrent method. I agree.
If you calculate it by failures, then yes hes not an hero. He failed to protect the group.
If you calculate on attempts; then yes he is.
We can't talk like Arvo is the "good guy" though.
Exactly
What attempts?
He tried to convince the group that Arvo is not to be trusted.
But failed because in Arvo's situation, he looked like a scared kid.
He beaten Arvo after he was screaming to avoid unwanted attraction.
But failed because he shoudn't of hit Arvo that was griefing and strapped to a pole.
He let his anger issues take control over the situation. he shouldn't have done a lot of things against Arvo.
He wanted to shoot Arvo for putting his group at risk (he started it)
Rebecca died of blood loss, it might could've been prevented if they weren't surprised by Arvo's group. (might)
Kenny tried / tries to do the best thing, but he just can't handle most situations without getting angry.
So trying to convince the group to not trust Arvo, and beating him, makes him a hero, or attempting to be?
Look, were probably going to go in circle's if we keep this going. Let's just say we view the situation differently than each other and we won't be to change each others view point on that.
This is why I hated the fact that he was right all along!
Because it justifies his actions to a lot of people even though what he did was pretty fucking bad, no Kenny is not a hero, he's an asshole who likes to vent his rage into other people whether it's by yelling at them, beating the or killing them.
NO, the fact that he was right about Arvo doesn't excuse his actions.
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You misunderstood my points.
Beating him doesn't makes him a hero. What makes him a "hero" is that he is the only one that sees the current situation as it is, and he tries to protect the group from his intentions.
I'm not saying that;
I'm just saying that Kenny is the only one that saw Arvo as a threat and not just as a "scared kid that does whatever you say."
Well it's obvious that most people agree that beating Arvo is bad, as do I. Why i'm questioning that Kenny is a hero or not? Because hes the only one that cares about Arvo's actions. Hes the only one that sees them as they should be seen.
Just to be clear; I don't support Kenny's actions from Episode 5. They were horrible, and I think that's something everyone could agree on.
Yes he was bad, his actions were horrible.
Alright that's the only thing I asked from people with this thread. Kenny made horrible decisions.
Just the fact that he's mad all the time makes me hate his personality.
oh you. That is my favorite kind of cat.
The wise words from Hobo King. While they are applicable to a vast array of situations, like teaching a little girl how to shoot a weapon, anybody with a sense of morality will not simply see "alive" or "dead". There is much more to a person than living or not.
How are you not banned yet?
How ironic.
They could have done so much more with his character. Was very disappointed in the way they treated him, Kenny, Clem being shot, and the entire situation.
I'm more inclined to think Kenny's a hero when he took that beating for Clem by Carver then any other time this season.
Kenny is love, Kenny is life.
Kenny is always right, Kenny is never wrong.
Glory to Kenny, the urban boat god.
Now my shit birds, let us pray. Hail Kenny full of boats, the stache is with thee Blessed art thou amongst urbans and blessed is the fruit of thy loins, duck holy Kenny father duck pray for us ♥♥♥♥birds now and at the hour of our bite.
And yeah I am kind off feminine and when I was in high school people often confused me with a girl so I'm not arguing against that.
As to whether I'm all talk or not, well I can't prove that on the Internet where all I am is words and code so I guess there's no point to that part of your argument, whatever I say will be that just words, but if I'm all talk so are you after all to me you are nothing but words, this does not invalidate my argument in any way.
In any case being in his shoes would I last? Who knows, I can tell you that I've had to deal with a lot of shit in my life and unlike Kenny in Season 1 I know how to fight so that's one advantage I have over him, I've had to go without food many times and I know I can last about 3 days without eating anything and still be able to do hard work and 5 days and still be able to walk, are these things that would give me an advantage? Maybe. I'm also fairly agile and very good at climbing fences and stuff which would definitely be useful.
Would I survive? Probably not, I'd try to give everyone a chance and I'd probably get killed rather fast but maybe I would, if I happened to find the right group of people, much like how Kenny wouldn't have survived if he hadn't grouped up with Lee, Lily and the others.
Does this mean I have no right to judge a man for doing morally questionable things?
Absolutely not, I can judge him all I want and someone asked a question and I answered it with my opinion.
I'm not sure Kenny sensed any kind of plan from Arvo (if there even was a plan), Kenny's not someone who doesn't voice his opinions. If he distrusted Arvo and believed he was some kind of threat, Kenny would have brought it up, especially when he tells the group that he doesn't intend to bring Arvo with them, or when he was alone with Clem. All he does is treat Arvo like garbage because of the ambush, even in the aftermath after no one has died and he's completely defenseless. Had someone died it might have made Kenny a bit more sympathetic, however, due to the fact that no one died, there was no reason to keep treating Arvo like an animal when he's completely bound and defenseless other than "I'm still pissed your group attacked us".
Yeah I forgot we should have torn out Arvos fingernails before disembowelling him. Arvo shot clementine due to a weird charcater change (he goes from passive intent to full blown violence and the fact Kenny treated him like crap)
I don't hate him but I expected more of him and got disappointed in the end, I have a fairly strange relationship with Kenny because I really wanted him to redeem himself but instead of having him become a better person the game just decides he's right and that's a pretty sorry excuse of a redemption, justifying all his morally questionable decisions by making him right, it kinda pisses me off to be honest.