Theory: Season 2 is actually a Dying Dream
I've actually pitched this idea in a couple of threads before, but in case you missed it, I feel Season 2 makes more sense and actually works better as a story if you think everything happening to Clementine after the scene with the dog is actually part of dying dream. Cliche? Crazy? Maybe, but hear me out. Which is more likely?
An eleven year old girl lost in the woods reeling horribly from a fight with a single dog is suddenly saved, later reunited with someone who was almost certainly dead in a part of the world far from where he was last seen, then accomplishes incredible feats of strength and endurance far beyond most adults, including walking off a rifle shot to the chest with no real consequences, and being seen as an equal by a vicious dictator, all in the span of a little over a week.
OR
A combination of malnutrition, shock, blood loss and possibly even rabies has caused Clem to hallucinate an elaborate scenario in her head in a subconscious attempt to deal with her impending death.
If everything post dog bite is in Clem's head, it actually explains the many plot holes, inconsistencies, and even the directionless feeling of the story because it's Clem's mind slowly coming to terms with the fact she's dying. She's thrust into these situations constantly because this is HER vision where she really is the center of the world. The characters often feel flat or unreal because their merely concepts and memories intermingling with Clem’s psyche's instead of real people.
- Pete's her desire for a strong encouraging guardian like Lee, but the bitter memories of losing Lee cause Pete to die in the same way, getting bitten while being careless for just a moment. Nick telling Clem "You could have saved him" is actually Clem's own guilt over Lee dying.
- Nick represents memories and feelings towards Ben, a pity at his plight and general like of his well meaning nature despite his mistakes often being fatal for others. The scene in the shed contains things she may have wished she had said to Ben. Nick's deaths run parallel with Ben's as well. They both die because a supposedly good man and teacher (Walter/Lee) chose to let them perish or they simply perish out of sight before ever seeing Clem again. (Clem was in the Stranger's clutches during Ben's second death.)
- Carlos and Sarah are a combination of Clem's insecurities and her desire to escape the world she's trapped in. She wants to be sheltered from the horrors she's faced with, and yet she also hates herself for wanting that. The scene when she tries to teach Sarah to use a gun is a reflection on Clem's own limitations when she can't answer Sarah's question about things Lee taught her. Carlos hitting Sarah personifies her conflicted feelings between wanting to be strong and yearning just to live life as a little girl again. Carlos dying is the ultimate realization there's nothing that can shield her from the horrors of the world, and Sarah's deaths suggesting to Clem that even if people don't abandon her simply because of what she is, she will still be a victim of fate, snuffed out before she ever got to live her life.
- Alvin and Rebecca are her parents. Their initial indifference and hostility a product of Clem's bitterness towards them for not being there when she needed them most. Far away when she was scared and alone, just like she is in the shed. But Clem's overwhelming desire to be loved again overrides their initial characterization, turning them into friendlier people with a concern for Clem. This would mean AJ is actually Clem herself, a pure soul thrust into a horrible world without even so much as parents for guidance.
- Carver is a personification of Clem's outlook on the cruel people of the world. To her, there's no rational reason for the way they act. So Carver is a petty bully with power. His abusive tendencies senseless and arbitrary. His ideology non-sensical. His ignorance and self-inflated sense of importance, baffling. Ultimately doomed by his own self-destructive nature.
The more minor characters are likely smaller less defined fragments of Clem's mind. Significant, but more allusive.
- Walter is Lee's dual nature of being wise and generous in one instance, then angry and vindictive in the next.
- Mike is a crude recollection of Lee's appearance, who eventually leaves Clem just before recalling Lee himself in his entirety.
- Matthew is a stand in for Carley and Doug. Someone friendly and helpful who was senselessly cut down right in front of her.
- Bonnie a caricature of Lilly's transformation. She was someone Clem thought she could trust ultimately revealed to be bitter and treacherous after losing someone close to her.
- Arvo and the Russians a warped version of herself and the original group brought on by her disapproval of robbing the station wagon, seeing them as thieving monsters in this instance who push a child into being complacent with their misdeed.
Luke, Kenny and Jane are are a unique evolution of Clementine's delusions, representing her deep seated desire to be saved from death somehow. They are all introduced as idealized versions of a savior, only to be corrupted and replaced by the next delusion. Their conflicts and deaths representing Clem's own internal struggle to rationalize some kind of hope for her to cling to in her final hours.
Luke is the charming farm boy, an ideal hero of fantasy. A product of Clem's Id. The strapping knight swooping in to save her. But as a product of fantasy, he is repeatedly foiled by reality. He lovingly carries Clem, only to drop her when he thinks she's bitten. He nominates her to traverse the bridge, and she's nearly killed when he can't help her. He recruits Clem for a spy mission at Howe's, then is discovered himself. He goes to save Sarah, he can't, and if Clem does, his role as a the dashing hero causes him to neglect his duty, leading to Sarah's death. His last act is to assure Clem everything is okay, then he dies.
Her more fantastical savior a failure, Clem turns to someone she actually knows to save her. With the loss of Christa still too fresh in her mind, Clem instead recreates Kenny, a hero born out of nostalgia for the past and a part of Clem's ego. Someone who was real and tangible and could still be out there, looking for Clem.
Kenny survives the impossible, reunites with Clem after being separated by years and hundreds of miles just to offer Clem shelter in a beautiful lodge where they're safe and warm. But confronted by Carver, her stand-in for the evils of the world, she slowly remembers Kenny's many faults. His pettiness, his stubborn nature, his tendency to lash out. Gradually the nostalgia gives way to the reality of who he was, then the reality gives way to cynicism, replacing most of Kenny's heroic traits with villainous ones.
With Kenny's role as Clem's hero tainted, Jane is introduced to the delusion as an idealized version of Clem's future self, her super-ego in a sense. A Molly like figure, completely independent, capable, fearless, with no need for others. A projection of who Clem could be and the belief she could survive entirely on her own strengths and abilities without help. The things Jane teach Clem are things Clem already knows. She already knew how to disguise her scent from walkers, she checked the pockets of the dead man at the camp, and earlier in her own vision she knee-capped a walker at the bridge.
But this image is slowly corrupted by Clem's subconscious realizing Jane isn't the kind of person she actually wants to be. Her unwillingness to save Sarah represents Clem's dilemma, to survive like this would mean to become the kind of person who would have left a younger Clem to die, simply because at some point she was a burden. And Jane's concern for Clementine is actually Clem's own selfishness and loneliness. A lonely and selfish figure constructed by Clem only to care for Clem. Her willingness to hide the truth about AJ, the image of Clem's very soul, is the realization that Clem would have to lie to herself to function this way.
Clem's journey throughout the story is actually her progressing through the five stages of grief. From Luke and Pete finding her in the woods to meeting Kenny at the lodge is clearly denial. Against all odds, wounded and alone in the middle of a forest, Clem is found and saved at the last second and later meets someone long gone from her past. Clem refuses to think she's dying and wants to believe everything will work out when she see hints of a stable life at the lodge.
Then Carver crashes the lodge and ruins everything, symbolizing the transition from denial to anger. This part is largely Clem's revenge fantasy against all the horrible people in the world that have caused her life to be so miserable. The St. Johns, The Bandits, The Stranger, The Girl who robbed her, the men in the woods who kill Christa. Her desperate desire to see the terrible people of the world punished, climaxing with her being the one to stop Carver herself, possibly even relishing in his execution.
Amid the Ruins is bargaining. Clem is doing a mental inventory of what she should have done or could have done. Jane's willingness to leave Sarah, the aftermath of her decision with Sarita, robbing Arvo and shooting Rebecca, all decisions that reflect Clem's past regrets and doubts. Should Lee have saved her from the Marsh House? Would he have been bitten if he hadn't? Would things have been different if they hadn't taken from the stranger? Should she have shot him? All questions still haunting Clem to this day.
Then we have No Going Back as depression. The landscape is cold, bleak, desolate. There are no signs of hope. And with every step forward things seem to get worse, with Luke's demise, Kenny's madness and eventually climaxing with Clementine being shot while discovering the treasonous actions of the people she thought were helping her. A depressing scene indeed.
Her delusions finally peak when she regresses back to putting herself safely in Lee's arms, desperately wanting to shut out reality and just go back to a time where she felt safe. But it doesn't last, her time is running out, and her delusions have begun to collapse into themselves, as seen with Kenny and Jane fighting for control over AJ, the metaphor for Clem's soul.
Leaving with Jane or Kenny illustrates Clem's unwillingness to accept her fate, clinging to one of her own delusions to the bitter end. With Kenny it's that despite all logic to the contrary, salvation is in arm's length, and all she has to do is desperately believe in it. And Jane's endings signifies her overwhelming wish to think she alone controls her own destiny, and that she will survive through sheer force of will alone.
But the alone ending, is Clementine finding acceptance. She abandons the Kenny and Jane delusions and reclaims AJ, reclaims her very own soul from her own despair. Her carrying AJ into the herd is symbolic of her readiness to meet oblivion with the clarity of mind that only comes with truly knowing oneself.
She was a brave, kind and loving person who brought some light into the very darkest of times. She knows that even if her time was brief, it gave great comfort to the other weary souls making this terrible journey with her. She takes solace in having stared down all the horrors of the world knowing that even if they killed her, they could not kill who she was. And rather than live on as anything else, she's happy to die true to herself. Still the same sweet girl who made her parents so very proud and Lee so very happy.
Comments
It's a good and thought out theory, but is it actually what's happening? I highly doubt it.
If you're asking me if I think this was the writers' intended interpretation, obviously not. But if you're telling me that taking the story literally is more reasonable than taking it as an abstract work, I actually disagree. There are so many odd moments, inconsistencies, unlikely situations, plot holes and contrivances in season two, that it's actually just easier for me to think of it as some kind of dream like situation where there isn't logic, then try to reconcile every logical problem with the story.
Unlikely but I almost want it to happen even if its trippy
dumb
I like your work here, but too bad that it wasn't a dream.
Hope the devs read this and use it as a valid reason to retcon the piece of shit that was Season 2.
As you know I've read this before. I'll probably read it again, so I'm very glad you posted an entire thread about it. With this theory season two is actually a stupendous season. Thanks
PS: I think it's a little funny so many people say it's "unlikely" or "not possible."
Season two isn't a piece of shit. It had it's moment when one could consider it "shit", but overall, it was great.
Seen this from you before. It seems very well thought out and very possible. If this is really true then Season 2 is a work of art and not as disappointing.
Did you play Season 1?
So why is it not possible?
Why is it unlikely?
Why is it dumb?
Season 2 went to shit when they brought back Kenny.
Can you prove that?
I thought Season 2 got better when they brought him back .-.
I think Season 2 died when they chose to throw away the Cabin Group for Kenny. It was a cop-out. Instead of attempting to develop new characters, let's bring back Kenny and make him go through the same thing he did in Season 1!
My thoughts: That is actually a brilliant theory, I really love it.
But sadly, Telltale hasn't made the game to leave much room for interpretation. And also, they missed so many great opportunities in Season 2 that I actually think the chances of this really happening are 0.0%
But as a abstract thought, I really like it a lot.
I'd rather just pretend s2 didn't happen at all but this is such an interesting interpretation of things.
Did you play No Going Back? and why are we back to bashing Season two?
Nah, in my opinion they should 've kept his fate unknown and used him in a later season. The writers weren't confident enough with their own characters and bringing him back showed it. Why do you think all the cabin survivors died. All that character development wasted given to an already well developed character. Kenny ruined this season for me. They should've called this season Kenny depression v2 where none of your choices matter in the end and Clem gets a baby.
People like to circle jerk.
Because it deserves to be bashed
Because a dog bite wouldn't kill her, even if the Sam had rabies it would be awhile before it actually died. Even bleeding out would take an extended amount of time. So yeah, I don't think this theory is true.
I'm not saying anything bad about the theory, I enjoyed reading it but I doubt it is a dream/vision.
Part of the fun of any art is interpreting it, and that includes interpreting pieces in ways the artist never intended. I actually saw someone suggest Fight Club is actually a movie about a grown up Calvin and Hobbes once. Obviously the movie wasn't made to be that... but it's still a lot of fun to think about within that interpretation.
Yeah its fun to think that way, and I really enjoyed reading your theory, its really good. But I don't really believe in theories like this but fun to read though.
I'm going to give your post a like, so more user's can read it.
A dog bite most definitely could kill her. Rabies probably didn't play a role in that death, but it could have. It could have also helped in the projection of these hallucinations. Bleeding can kill you in minutes. Have you ever heard of someone commit suicide by slitting their wrists? If it did take longer to kill her via blood loss, then she definitely could have been passed out from pain/exhaustion/etc long before it did take her, allowing her to play the above scenario in her head. You don't have to think it's true, it's just possible. And in my honest opinion, a much better take on the story then what the writers intendedto give us.
I've never heard of a dog bite killing someone as quick as that unless it was in a vital area. Like your example the wrist, but she was bit in the arm so I don't think she would have died that fast.
Its definitely more fun to think this way, but when you replied to me I thought you were saying something entirely different, so let's not try to get into an argument over this. Its a good theory and I really enjoyed reading it.
I agree that they should have used Kenny in a future season.
Develop some Cabin group members well enough in Season 2 and have 2 or 3 survive, including Luke. That way a Luke vs Kenny would have worked perfectly in Season 3
When you said the season went to shit because of Kenny that's complete BS. Kenny and Clem are the only things that saved this season.
"season 2 is an epic game where a character what everyone loves get thrown into all new situations, facing heartbreaks and injuries. A game where choices change the character's Morales and personality. Watch your beloved character grown into something more, something darker. Oh and it has some little girl or something in it. "
We don't know how long she walked after being bit, do we?
I'm not trying to argue. I was just curious why you thought it wasn't possible. Just because the writers didn't intend for it to be taken this way in no way makes it untrue to the players.
Yes i played No Going Back. The moment i saw no one in my group died at the shootout is when i realized this was going to be another episode written like garbage.
See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anticlimax
Well judging by the time of day, from the bite scene to when she was at the cabin, I'd say around maybe like and hour or two? I'm not sure.
I really don't believe in theories like this, its possible I personally just don't believe them. It feels off to me, because I don't believe the writers intended for it, but you can interpret your own way.
This sounds like a one bad theory for a someone who doesn't like the story. There is no proof of any dream going on, this is just a lot of misinterpretation and delusion. Have fun continuing to think season 3 is all in someone's head instead of just enjoying the game for what it is.
Telltale took a big dump on Season 1 then created the abomination that is Season 2. That can put a bright mind like OP's in denial.
Yep. Played No Going Back. Out of nowhere comes Jane even if I chose to leave the observation deck later or at that moment. Ooh its unpredictable it must be good!
It seems the article you linked applies more to the intended story than this unintentional one. Besides, it isn't anticlimactic because it's a dream.
Well Season Three is currently nothing, so enjoying it for what it is enjoying nothingness. How very zen.
2 hours is a long time to be bleeding like that. All of the major arteries and veins that run through the wrist must pass through the arm first and after. So it's likely to hit one, if not as likely to hit them all.
I don't see why it being unintentional should make it less believable. But, ok.