I don't totally agree with you on that the part I don't agree with is you saying that Clementine should not be the playable character sorry don't agree with that she should be the playable character I do agree maybe that some things they did were over board with her story but the story is not just about the survivors this story main focus sense the beginning was Clementine she is the main focus of the walking dead game even though we did not play her in season 1 they did not kill everything from season 1 it still stayed with her maybe to you think they did by giving us control of her in season 2 the first season was about protecting her and keeping her safe this round it was about having her learn to survive on her own kind of like make her learn things on how to survive yes season 1 she was innocent and needed protected but she is getting older she needs to learn to do things on her own to survive and I think that's what they were going for even though it was a little over board I think for her this round was to learn that she cant always depend on someone to protect her otherwise she wont make it in the world not everyone is going to look at her as a little girl they are going to expect her to do things plus remember what chuck said in season 1 your just alive your not little your not big your not a boy or a girl your alive a breathing person your either living or your not well something like that you have to take that also into account so yea I am not saying she should be alone by herself yet but some of the things were overboard but her being asked to do things and be treated like an adult yea that's kind of normal but some of the things were over done but that was accurate and also tell tale gave us the players the chance to play her to either keep the things she learned from season 1 or to change that we got to control her actions what she does and how she grows and develops and what she will do next I thought it was good plus you cant expect her to stay little and innocent through this and always need protected otherwise she isn't going to make it very long.
She will probably be the the protagonist of the 3rd season. Because the endings would connect so it doesn't make sense to play as someone else. The real question is if it wil come out on the ps3, because that's my console....
As time passes from my completion of season 2, I am realising my attachment to Clem stems from season 1 and I don't think it was nurtured in season 2 beyond the very first episode. Those moments alone and having to sew up her arm sucked me right back in but the second she became part of a group of adults, I think I found Clem as simply a viewpoint into that group.
I am also realising that I didn't once have a problem playing other characters in 400 Days even when I knew almost nothing about them.
I love Clem. But I think the series would survive moving on from her if that's the way they chose to go.
You didn´t actually explain that much. Your whole post amouted to saying that Clementine can´t work as a protagonist because the writers fucked up in some areas-making her have pretty much no character except the one you chose, and making her take a bit too much responsability. And hell, the mayority of your examples don´t even make much sense So think that all you are presenting here are really flimsy reasons to give out of the idea of Clementine being the protagonist, but maybe that is just me.
No I clearly said what was wrong with it, A child cant be a protaganist in a game like this, the protaganist has to do much of the tasks in … morethis game and a kid cant do this while maintaing realism. Plus I liked clem as a character not like she is now a bland vessel
Hmmm... it doesn't quite feel like you read the post. That or you did and you're just boiling it down to the smallest particle to help dismiss it. There are a lot of his examples in his post that go well beyond "making her take a bit too much responsibility" and other points in there too. Having a child protagonist in a group of adults in a very adult situation would be difficult for any writer.
You didn´t actually explain that much. Your whole post amouted to saying that Clementine can´t work as a protagonist because the writers fuc… moreked up in some areas-making her have pretty much no character except the one you chose, and making her take a bit too much responsability. And hell, the mayority of your examples don´t even make much sense So think that all you are presenting here are really flimsy reasons to give out of the idea of Clementine being the protagonist, but maybe that is just me.
I know there are other examples. I am just saying that alll of them are the mistakes of the writers, and that none of the examples show that Clem can´t work as the protagonist.
Hmmm... it doesn't quite feel like you read the post. That or you did and you're just boiling it down to the smallest particle to help dismi… moress it. There are a lot of his examples in his post that go well beyond "making her take a bit too much responsibility" and other points in there too. Having a child protagonist in a group of adults in a very adult situation would be difficult for any writer.
Perhaps "can't work" is a little too definite so, sure, I see your point there. But they do illustrate the inherent difficulties and, like I say, any writer would have problems here.
An 11 year old child in a group of adults in a dangerous situation would invariably play a secondary role in that group if they even had a role at all beyond the object to protect. Decisions are going to be made by the adults, the actions are going to be carried out by the adults. But a protagonist needs to play the primary role. A protagonist should drive the action and the writers clearly struggled with that - any writer would because it goes against how it would likely play out in reality. And to get actual gaming tasks in there, Clem was so often asked to do things for no other reason than the makers of the game had chosen her as the playable character. Some of those tasks didn't bother me but there were certainly a few that had me thinking, are you serious? Send the child?
It is possible that other writers could have overcome some of those difficulties to a point but, honestly, I think it unlikely. The basic situation created the challenge rather the skill of the writers.
I know there are other examples. I am just saying that alll of them are the mistakes of the writers, and that none of the examples show that Clem can´t work as the protagonist.
Exactly. This is why I think the writers of Season 2 struggled to make Clementine a credible protagonist. They ended up creating a character almost equivalent to a small adult than an 11 year old child, and the majority of the cast treats her like an adult than a child.
Perhaps "can't work" is a little too definite so, sure, I see your point there. But they do illustrate the inherent difficulties and, like I… more say, any writer would have problems here.
An 11 year old child in a group of adults in a dangerous situation would invariably play a secondary role in that group if they even had a role at all beyond the object to protect. Decisions are going to be made by the adults, the actions are going to be carried out by the adults. But a protagonist needs to play the primary role. A protagonist should drive the action and the writers clearly struggled with that - any writer would because it goes against how it would likely play out in reality. And to get actual gaming tasks in there, Clem was so often asked to do things for no other reason than the makers of the game had chosen her as the playable character. Some of those tasks didn't bother me but there were certainly a few that had me thinking, are you seriou… [view original content]
i am starting to wish chuck never existed because of the amount of time they use that quote to justify how clementine was treated in season two.
it's not just you @jon200547 so don't take it personally, but leave chuck out of it, even he wouldn't have actually treated clementine as an adult and relied on her, he died saving her remember
I don't totally agree with you on that the part I don't agree with is you saying that Clementine should not be the playable character sorry … moredon't agree with that she should be the playable character I do agree maybe that some things they did were over board with her story but the story is not just about the survivors this story main focus sense the beginning was Clementine she is the main focus of the walking dead game even though we did not play her in season 1 they did not kill everything from season 1 it still stayed with her maybe to you think they did by giving us control of her in season 2 the first season was about protecting her and keeping her safe this round it was about having her learn to survive on her own kind of like make her learn things on how to survive yes season 1 she was innocent and needed protected but she is getting older she needs to learn to do things on her own to survive and I think that's what they were going for … [view original content]
i am starting to wish chuck never existed because of the amount of time they use that quote to justify how clementine was treated in season … moretwo.
it's not just you @jon200547 so don't take it personally, but leave chuck out of it, even he wouldn't have actually treated clementine as an adult and relied on her, he died saving her remember
Actually I'd like add something somebody else wrote. I was reading some old posts Conviva Ebrius linked me and edited together a bit of an a… morebridged version of his idea of playing more as an influence on a more fully realized Clem that you can choose to act certain ways, but don't actually control her motives or reactions for.
Character development isn't necessarily tied only to the way you act or behave, but also to the mindset and rationale and explanation behind the action. One action can have a variety of possible reasons and mindsets underlying it. it is possible even if we choose an action ourselves, Clementine could explain it and rationalize it to us in different possible ways, but in a way that would make sense within and connected to the context of the Season I experience.
You will not be able to project your own backstory or motives or personality onto Clementine's behavior, but rather, as a semi-NPC of sorts, she will … [view original content]
Perhaps "can't work" is a little too definite so, sure, I see your point there. But they do illustrate the inherent difficulties and, like I say, any writer would have problems here.
So? Difficult doesn´t mean impossible.
An 11 year old child in a group of adults in a dangerous situation would invariably play a secondary role in that group if they even had a role at all beyond the object to protect. Decisions are going to be made by the adults, the actions are going to be carried out by the adults. But a protagonist needs to play the primary role. A protagonist should drive the action and the writers clearly struggled with that - any writer would because it goes against how it would likely play out in reality. And to get actual gaming tasks in there, Clem was so often asked to do things for no other reason than the makers of the game had chosen her as the playable character. Some of those tasks didn't bother me but there were certainly a few that had me thinking, are you serious? Send the child?
Clem doesn't make any decision for the group, and is not like the rest of the group are standing around as Clem does all the work. Sure, that the crane couldn't handle much weight is a obvious excuse to make Clementine be central to the escape plan, and Clem just kind walks off the dog bite to go to the river with Pete and Nick, but both of these things are easily fixed as are most of the mistakes made this season in regards to her role as the MC.
It is possible that other writers could have overcome some of those difficulties to a point but, honestly, I think it unlikely. The basic situation created the challenge rather the skill of the writers.
Well, I kinda agree with what you are saying, but you have to admit that the skill of the writers didn't help at all.
Perhaps "can't work" is a little too definite so, sure, I see your point there. But they do illustrate the inherent difficulties and, like I… more say, any writer would have problems here.
An 11 year old child in a group of adults in a dangerous situation would invariably play a secondary role in that group if they even had a role at all beyond the object to protect. Decisions are going to be made by the adults, the actions are going to be carried out by the adults. But a protagonist needs to play the primary role. A protagonist should drive the action and the writers clearly struggled with that - any writer would because it goes against how it would likely play out in reality. And to get actual gaming tasks in there, Clem was so often asked to do things for no other reason than the makers of the game had chosen her as the playable character. Some of those tasks didn't bother me but there were certainly a few that had me thinking, are you seriou… [view original content]
Perhaps "can't work" is a little too definite so, sure, I see your point there. But they do illustrate the inherent difficulties and, like I… more say, any writer would have problems here.
So? Difficult doesn´t mean impossible.
An 11 year old child in a group of adults in a dangerous situation would invariably play a secondary role in that group if they even had a role at all beyond the object to protect. Decisions are going to be made by the adults, the actions are going to be carried out by the adults. But a protagonist needs to play the primary role. A protagonist should drive the action and the writers clearly struggled with that - any writer would because it goes against how it would likely play out in reality. And to get actual gaming tasks in there, Clem was so often asked to do things for no other reason than the makers of the game had chosen her as the playable character. Some of those tasks didn't bother me but there were ce… [view original content]
Thats the idea, no I dont want to sit around which is why we shouldnt play as a child who should be in most accounts be sitting around while the adults do the work
Well, do you want to sit around throughout the whole game?
Clementine needs to learn how to light a fire for her survival (cough, alone e… morending, cough). You can't deny that all of us were once asked to do something (Like watch someone or help them in something).
Season 2 pretty much worked normal, and you can kick a door open if you kick near the knob. When I was 11, I can chop through a whole chicken, does that mean that I have unrealistic strength in which I am an alien?
Sarah suffered PTSD and why they treat her like a child.
It makes sense as an 11 year old to do all the work, as in almost every family, the youngest child is the one being asked to do most of the work in their household.
Like I said earlier, Clementine works normally as a Protag. and a child.
I'm just trying to start a debate. Not everything has to be "ooooh I respect u soooooooooooo much" Explain why it is important so I can see your point.
It´s important because I´m attached to the character. I appreciate even the little dialogue changes that some people might not. Gives me the impression I´m in control of who she is and who she is becoming. If I can´t have that, if I have to play someone I don´t care about, I´m not wasting my money. That´s all there really is to it.
I'm just trying to start a debate. Not everything has to be "ooooh I respect u soooooooooooo much" Explain why it is important so I can see your point.
It´s important because I´m attached to the character. I appreciate even the little dialogue changes that some people might not. Gives me the… more impression I´m in control of who she is and who she is becoming. If I can´t have that, if I have to play someone I don´t care about, I´m not wasting my money. That´s all there really is to it.
I really don't want to play as Clementine. And it's really weird that a lot of you wants to play as Clementine. I mean she isn't the little girl we used to know. The little girl we cared because she was innocent. Cute. And we were Worried something might happen to her. Now you don't need to worry about Clem. I mean she survived two years in the apocalypse. She doesn't need any help. Hell sometimes you wonder why is she in an adult group. The adults keeps getting her in trouble ! And they ask her to do everything ! To me they totally ruined Clementine's character (TO ME). What they should have done is put her as a NPC in season 2. And what she would do would be based on how Lee raised her. Now we control everything. And everything lee taught her is worthless since now you are playing her. Having Clem acting by how lee raised her would have been sweet. And what's eating me up is that since so much fan want to play as Clementine (which I can't fucking understand) Telltale is actually going to put her as a primary character for season 3.
Comments
I don't totally agree with you on that the part I don't agree with is you saying that Clementine should not be the playable character sorry don't agree with that she should be the playable character I do agree maybe that some things they did were over board with her story but the story is not just about the survivors this story main focus sense the beginning was Clementine she is the main focus of the walking dead game even though we did not play her in season 1 they did not kill everything from season 1 it still stayed with her maybe to you think they did by giving us control of her in season 2 the first season was about protecting her and keeping her safe this round it was about having her learn to survive on her own kind of like make her learn things on how to survive yes season 1 she was innocent and needed protected but she is getting older she needs to learn to do things on her own to survive and I think that's what they were going for even though it was a little over board I think for her this round was to learn that she cant always depend on someone to protect her otherwise she wont make it in the world not everyone is going to look at her as a little girl they are going to expect her to do things plus remember what chuck said in season 1 your just alive your not little your not big your not a boy or a girl your alive a breathing person your either living or your not well something like that you have to take that also into account so yea I am not saying she should be alone by herself yet but some of the things were overboard but her being asked to do things and be treated like an adult yea that's kind of normal but some of the things were over done but that was accurate and also tell tale gave us the players the chance to play her to either keep the things she learned from season 1 or to change that we got to control her actions what she does and how she grows and develops and what she will do next I thought it was good plus you cant expect her to stay little and innocent through this and always need protected otherwise she isn't going to make it very long.
She will probably be the the protagonist of the 3rd season. Because the endings would connect so it doesn't make sense to play as someone else. The real question is if it wil come out on the ps3, because that's my console....
As time passes from my completion of season 2, I am realising my attachment to Clem stems from season 1 and I don't think it was nurtured in season 2 beyond the very first episode. Those moments alone and having to sew up her arm sucked me right back in but the second she became part of a group of adults, I think I found Clem as simply a viewpoint into that group.
I am also realising that I didn't once have a problem playing other characters in 400 Days even when I knew almost nothing about them.
I love Clem. But I think the series would survive moving on from her if that's the way they chose to go.
You didn´t actually explain that much. Your whole post amouted to saying that Clementine can´t work as a protagonist because the writers fucked up in some areas-making her have pretty much no character except the one you chose, and making her take a bit too much responsability. And hell, the mayority of your examples don´t even make much sense So think that all you are presenting here are really flimsy reasons to give out of the idea of Clementine being the protagonist, but maybe that is just me.
Hmmm... it doesn't quite feel like you read the post. That or you did and you're just boiling it down to the smallest particle to help dismiss it. There are a lot of his examples in his post that go well beyond "making her take a bit too much responsibility" and other points in there too. Having a child protagonist in a group of adults in a very adult situation would be difficult for any writer.
I know there are other examples. I am just saying that alll of them are the mistakes of the writers, and that none of the examples show that Clem can´t work as the protagonist.
Perhaps "can't work" is a little too definite so, sure, I see your point there. But they do illustrate the inherent difficulties and, like I say, any writer would have problems here.
An 11 year old child in a group of adults in a dangerous situation would invariably play a secondary role in that group if they even had a role at all beyond the object to protect. Decisions are going to be made by the adults, the actions are going to be carried out by the adults. But a protagonist needs to play the primary role. A protagonist should drive the action and the writers clearly struggled with that - any writer would because it goes against how it would likely play out in reality. And to get actual gaming tasks in there, Clem was so often asked to do things for no other reason than the makers of the game had chosen her as the playable character. Some of those tasks didn't bother me but there were certainly a few that had me thinking, are you serious? Send the child?
It is possible that other writers could have overcome some of those difficulties to a point but, honestly, I think it unlikely. The basic situation created the challenge rather the skill of the writers.
Exactly. This is why I think the writers of Season 2 struggled to make Clementine a credible protagonist. They ended up creating a character almost equivalent to a small adult than an 11 year old child, and the majority of the cast treats her like an adult than a child.
But she can't work, either she's put there with no reason why, or she's just there. There's no sense of a real character.
Opinions. I like it.
i am starting to wish chuck never existed because of the amount of time they use that quote to justify how clementine was treated in season two.
it's not just you @jon200547 so don't take it personally, but leave chuck out of it, even he wouldn't have actually treated clementine as an adult and relied on her, he died saving her remember
Behold, it's Chuck the wise homeless bum who knows all the secrets of the universe! :P
Whoops. Fixed that for you.
Tell me one way Clementine works as a PC, she's basically just Fanservice.
For you, maybe. For me it´s about developing a character I love from the kid she was in Season 1.
So? Difficult doesn´t mean impossible.
Clem doesn't make any decision for the group, and is not like the rest of the group are standing around as Clem does all the work. Sure, that the crane couldn't handle much weight is a obvious excuse to make Clementine be central to the escape plan, and Clem just kind walks off the dog bite to go to the river with Pete and Nick, but both of these things are easily fixed as are most of the mistakes made this season in regards to her role as the MC.
Well, I kinda agree with what you are saying, but you have to admit that the skill of the writers didn't help at all.
Bored of Clementine.
Three examples where their was a group full of adults which just sat around while clem did all the work
Thats the idea, no I dont want to sit around which is why we shouldnt play as a child who should be in most accounts be sitting around while the adults do the work
Development? lol what development. Making Clementine say shit or something. That's the most feel of progression you get with Clementine.
...Which is very important to me.
I´m not asking you to agree.
I'm just trying to start a debate. Not everything has to be "ooooh I respect u soooooooooooo much" Explain why it is important so I can see your point.
It´s important because I´m attached to the character. I appreciate even the little dialogue changes that some people might not. Gives me the impression I´m in control of who she is and who she is becoming. If I can´t have that, if I have to play someone I don´t care about, I´m not wasting my money. That´s all there really is to it.
100% agree.
Thanks Cake.
I really don't want to play as Clementine. And it's really weird that a lot of you wants to play as Clementine. I mean she isn't the little girl we used to know. The little girl we cared because she was innocent. Cute. And we were Worried something might happen to her. Now you don't need to worry about Clem. I mean she survived two years in the apocalypse. She doesn't need any help. Hell sometimes you wonder why is she in an adult group. The adults keeps getting her in trouble ! And they ask her to do everything ! To me they totally ruined Clementine's character (TO ME). What they should have done is put her as a NPC in season 2. And what she would do would be based on how Lee raised her. Now we control everything. And everything lee taught her is worthless since now you are playing her. Having Clem acting by how lee raised her would have been sweet. And what's eating me up is that since so much fan want to play as Clementine (which I can't fucking understand) Telltale is actually going to put her as a primary character for season 3.
You're image isn't appearing, its a .gifv file.
Fixed that.