My thoughts exactly. You're the one getting angrily defensive of a man who slaughters and eats people (children too if you saw all those stacked up toys), apparently because he's handsome. But something is wrong with me because I think he's a monster who deserves to die. I think we both know he's not going to live past the next few episodes anyway, so you can save your sarcasm. Don't forget, you started this with your "chill" picture.
I dont care how good looking he is, he is a piece of crap that needs to die.
And you say I get angrily defensive? You got really damn defensive on something that doesn't even involve your opinion on. I couldn't give two shits if you hate him or not, I personally think his actor/character is hot. What does that have to do with him being a "piece of shit who needs to die"? And I'm not even trying to justify his actions because he's hot. Me liking him as a villain has nothing to do with his appearance.
This is why I haven't been on lately, people are just desperate to start an argument that they aren't involved with in the first place. But obviously, of course, if I have an opinion it must be shut down and obviously wrong by yours.
My thoughts exactly. You're the one getting angrily defensive of a man who slaughters and eats people (children too if you saw all those sta… morecked up toys), apparently because he's handsome. But something is wrong with me because I think he's a monster who deserves to die. I think we both know he's not going to live past the next few episodes anyway, so you can save your sarcasm. Don't forget, you started this with your "chill" picture.
You still don't get it. You're the one that started the argument and now you're trying to laugh it off. That's fine. I don't want to get into arguments with people who can't respect anyone else's opinion. I didn't see anything in your post thst said "no one else reply", but you seem to be one of those people who uses rudeness and sarcasm to make your point. So, we'll leave it at that.
Oh my god, I'm actually laughing at this.
I dont care how good looking he is, he is a piece of crap that needs to die.
And you… more say I get angrily defensive? You got really damn defensive on something that doesn't even involve your opinion on. I couldn't give two shits if you hate him or not, I personally think his actor/character is hot. What does that have to do with him being a "piece of shit who needs to die"? And I'm not even trying to justify his actions because he's hot. Me liking him as a villain has nothing to do with his appearance.
This is why I haven't been on lately, people are just desperate to start an argument that they aren't involved with in the first place. But obviously, of course, if I have an opinion it must be shut down and obviously wrong by yours.
Do me a favor, and get over yourself.
I think it's hard to define evil during a ZA. Most who have survived this long proably have committed some sort of evil action just to survi… moreve but does that make them evil? I would easily call rape an evil act because there is nothing to gain from it. They are just doing a horrible thing to someone else because they can. The eating people part can also be called an evil act but the purpose of it was to survive so does that make them evil people?
Or is the world during a ZA make it a evil world and people just have to do evil things to survive?
If given the choice, would you choose to die as cattle or survive with the Terminus group as a cannibal?
Does it make you evil to choose to survive?
I remember after the show, during Talking Dead, they mentioned how Terminus began as a place of safety but when they let in a group of bad people, they then realized that now, in order to survive, it's either be the cattle or the butcher. Aft… [view original content]
Good and evil are subjective according to my values, which is existential Christianity. I.e. I was given a mind by God, so I determine what is right and wrong.
However, in a existential worldview, this doesn't mean good and evil DON'T EXIST.
It means that whatever I judge to be Good and Evil are deeply, personally true according to me. Which means that if I think the Terminus people need to die, they do and I should carry that out.
It's sort of an irrelevant question. Who decides good and evil? If there is a God, then God does (I'll digress here and reference Sartre, wh… moreo said humans can still be free even if there is a God, but the question becomes significantly more complicated.) However, if the individual is to decide it then it is subsequently up to them which actions are moral are immoral. The subsequent question is their maliability - if Thou Shalt Not Kill is a maxim, then killing, even in self-defense, is wrong. If, like the law, it is situational, then it can be permitted.
To go back to Sartre, he has a play "The Flies," in which Orestes returns to Argos, and ultimately defies Zeus - knowing that he is the supreme god. The other alternative is Kierkegaard, who suggest that Abraham had free will to make the choice and believe the angel was an angel, when it could well be a devil, and sacrifice Isaac. Any question of valuation needs to question the source of such valuation and the logic (or absurdity) behind it.
Everyone has a reason for what they do, of course.
However, survival isn't always a reason which justifies everything (IMHO).
And the Terminus folk aren't killing to survive.
They're killing to get back their sense of power they lost.
I don't want to get into arguments with people who can't respect anyone else's opinion.
Can you actually go and re-read the first two comments? Like I said, I don't care if you don't like Gareth. I like him, and his appearance. Then you had to say "omg he's lyk so evil hes a piece of crap he should die". You didn't even have to say that.
I didn't see anything in your post thst said "no one else reply"
But common sense is to respect someone's opinion, right? Just like you said?
Sarcasm is my thing, rudeness is yours. Also, do me a favor. Don't try to start arguments and completely contradict yourself.
You still don't get it. You're the one that started the argument and now you're trying to laugh it off. That's fine. I don't want to get int… moreo arguments with people who can't respect anyone else's opinion. I didn't see anything in your post thst said "no one else reply", but you seem to be one of those people who uses rudeness and sarcasm to make your point. So, we'll leave it at that.
On my end, I think the Terminus people kind of nicely demonstrate a lesson from Alan Moore's "The Killing Joke." The Joker's quote-unquote "Origin Story." In that story, the Joker gets roped into being part of a chemical plant heist when he's not a criminal but a (very bad) comedian. He does this because he's trying to provide for his (very pregnant) wife.
The short version is a series of comically tragic events occur which end up killing his wife and child in an accident before he's forced to go on the heist anyway, only to get dumped in a chemical bath. The Joker determines from this series of events that life is meaningless and anyone could become a monster (like him) given enough bad stimulus.
This is why he thinks Batman is like him because he can sense Batman had "a bad day" once, which made him who he is. Batman, of all people, refutes the Joker's logic in the story. While Batman, yes, DID have a bad day which turned him into a warped crazy person (he admits that as much as anyone) other people have bad days too and they DON'T become like the Joker or Batman.
So maybe their justification is just that. Rick's group of Survivors, really, challenge the Terminus folk's sense of self and I suspect (if they knew the whole story) would get really-really upset at them because they've gone through stuff which is almost as bad. Maybe not the sexual abuse element but certainly they've been kept in box cars and used as food products as well as chased from one end of Georgia to the next.
And they're NOT crazy. Desperate, scared, battered, traumatized, and maybe a little insane? Yes. They came to Terminus, though, for help and would have given help to the Termites if they could. The whole misguided Washington D.C. trip is because they DO still care. In short, the Termites got a raw deal and I would understand if they became bandits or suspiscious isolationists or murderers who tortured the people who tortured them endlessly.
They didn't, though. The Termites became predators on people unrelated to the horrors which befell them. They became who preyed on them.
And it takes a special kind of messed up to do that given most people would die or become bandits or become Rick's group before they became cannibal serial killers.
I disagree that they are killing to regain their power. They had to kill to take Terminus back, yes, but they continue to capture and kill for food, they were smoking the meat to make it last.
You are right one one thing, not every action justifies survival but that would be up to the individual. Killing for food to survive is for survival. Killing for sport, where you gain nothing, or rape where you gain nothing, is an atrocity.
Everyone has a reason for what they do, of course.
However, survival isn't always a reason which justifies everything (IMHO).
And the Terminus folk aren't killing to survive.
They're killing to get back their sense of power they lost.
I'm just going to jump into this conversation and agree that yes, Gareth is pretty damn hot. Buuuuuuuut he still needs to die because he's fucked up, regardless of how ridiculously attractive I find him to be.
And it really seems like they don't even need to eat people to survive no matter how much they try to convince themselves of that being the case. That was made even more obvious to me the way Gareth was basically taunting Bob while eating his leg and just being a general creepy dick.
Imagine cannibalism as a scale, on one end you have the Donner Party and on the opposite end there's Hannibal and I really think Terminus is more like the latter. Just my opinion.
I don't want to get into arguments with people who can't respect anyone else's opinion.
Can you actually go and re-read the first tw… moreo comments? Like I said, I don't care if you don't like Gareth. I like him, and his appearance. Then you had to say "omg he's lyk so evil hes a piece of crap he should die". You didn't even have to say that.
I didn't see anything in your post thst said "no one else reply"
But common sense is to respect someone's opinion, right? Just like you said?
Sarcasm is my thing, rudeness is yours. Also, do me a favor. Don't try to start arguments and completely contradict yourself.
They don't need all that meat. They could survive the way everyone else is, foraging, farming, whatever. They must have killed hundreds of people, children included. I firmly believe they eat people just because they can, and that they somehow think they are higher beings. Especially with Gareth saying that eating people was just part of them becoming evolved. Gareth is nuts and he infected everyone else with his sickness.
I disagree that they are killing to regain their power. They had to kill to take Terminus back, yes, but they continue to capture and kill … morefor food, they were smoking the meat to make it last.
You are right one one thing, not every action justifies survival but that would be up to the individual. Killing for food to survive is for survival. Killing for sport, where you gain nothing, or rape where you gain nothing, is an atrocity.
In the apocalypse it's hard to follow a good moral, you can't be good without being evil because Survivors survive by finding and taking food that may have saved another person. Killing, morally, is regarded as evil no matter what, so killing Walkers is morally evil. If we are going with innocence, everyone is technically a killer as we all kill billions of microbes daily just by taking a step in any direction. :x
If they can't find food then it is necessary it is basic survival, it is sick yes but if you are starving you will eat just about anything. And they are not more important no one is, they need food and believe it or not humans have meat on them = food.
Eating people is the very very very last resort when you are desperate to the point of insanity. These people dont look that desperate. If other survivors can get along without slaughtering and eating people, they could have, they just didnt want to.
If they can't find food then it is necessary it is basic survival, it is sick yes but if you are starving you will eat just about anything. … moreAnd they are not more important no one is, they need food and believe it or not humans have meat on them = food.
I'm just going to jump into this conversation and agree that yes, Gareth is pretty damn hot. Buuuuuuuut he still needs to die because he's f… moreucked up, regardless of how ridiculously attractive I find him to be.
And it really seems like they don't even need to eat people to survive no matter how much they try to convince themselves of that being the case. That was made even more obvious to me the way Gareth was basically taunting Bob while eating his leg and just being a general creepy dick.
Imagine cannibalism as a scale, on one end you have the Donner Party and on the opposite end there's Hannibal and I really think Terminus is more like the latter. Just my opinion.
Same goes for killing/robbing people even though sometimes you have to in defense. And it is not insanity it is basic animal instinct. And yes we are animals.
Eating people is the very very very last resort when you are desperate to the point of insanity. These people dont look that desperate. If other survivors can get along without slaughtering and eating people, they could have, they just didnt want to.
Same goes for killing/robbing people even though sometimes you have to in defense. And it is not insanity it is basic animal instinct. And yes we are animals.
the termites chose the convenient path to survive rather than bonding with other survivors to find food, shelter etc, but that's what would happen and forces the good people to do bad things just to live.
I kinda didn't like the S1E2 at the St. Johns. A few month into the ZA, a farm with corn fields and a cow and they are cannibles already? Really??
I believe some may resort to that later on, a good 17 months like in the tv show is more believable to me.
Still, it could happen and however you feel about it could dictate which side of the oven your on!
yeah right man, shit would turn medieval. it is just that I wouldn't see a point. but I guess it would still mean the same that it mean even today. the feeling of ultimate power over someone.
So what if they do? He was an interesting character and provided great moments. You just sound very simple minded, he eats people and? He hasn't even been around long enough or did anything to have you feel such a strong hate. I just don't get idiots like you, that is such a generic reason and feels like you force it.
Well I don't know who any of you are to say what is "okay" and what's not. Anyway, all humans are "evil" because we're all animals at heart, all capable of doing things that might be considered "evil". Also, people can be evil in the most subtle ways and no one is "good", people just pretend and wear masks, just conform to society. Without all of the laws and social conventions, you would see people's true colors.
But how does Gareth's sex appeal connect with his actions?
It doesn't. But the fact that you went into a thread discussing the morality of a group of rapists and cannibals only to comment on the attractiveness of their leader is a bit eyebrow raising.
Your original comment, if taken seriously, comes off as completely missing the point in a very bad way. If I show you footage of a man committing horrific crimes like rape, murder, and cannibalism and your response to that is "Wow, he's hot," that suggests something about your character that's not very flattering.
It suggests that you're shallow and prioritize external appearance above horrifying character flaws. Or worse, that you don't judge said horrifying character flaws as harshly because of the person's external appearance. Reminds me a bit of the news reports of teenage girls who fawn over the Boston Marathon bomber and believe him to be innocent simply because they think he's dreamy.
That being said, I think you were going for more of a humorous approach with your comment.
okay.
But how does Gareth's sex appeal connect with his actions? Please, tell me so.
That's what the other poster was arguing about. A… morell I said was "chill".
It must be how I'm reading it, but his response sounded pretty damn hostile to me.
Why should I chill? He eats people. What, you like him?
So what if they do? He was an interesting character and provided great moments. You just sound very simple minded, he eats people and? He ha… moresn't even been around long enough or did anything to have you feel such a strong hate. I just don't get idiots like you, that is such a generic reason and feels like you force it.
Besides the "But Gareth is hot", I did make my say in it. I said "I don't know," which in all honesty, I don't. I don't know if in this case it's okay to be evil. Not to mention if I say Gareth, the character, is hot, aren't I really saying that Andrew J. West is hot? Because to me, he is. And I really like Gareth's character, I think he's an excellent villain with a philosophy that's intriguing, but wrong. Gareth is a fictional character, doing bad actions in a fictional story. Key word: Fictional. Humorous approach or not, his appearance shouldn't have anything to do with his actions.
But how does Gareth's sex appeal connect with his actions?
It doesn't. But the fact that you went into a thread discussing the moral… moreity of a group of rapists and cannibals only to comment on the attractiveness of their leader is a bit eyebrow raising.
Your original comment, if taken seriously, comes off as completely missing the point in a very bad way. If I show you footage of a man committing horrific crimes like rape, murder, and cannibalism and your response to that is "Wow, he's hot," that suggests something about your character that's not very flattering.
It suggests that you're shallow and prioritize external appearance above horrifying character flaws. Or worse, that you don't judge said horrifying character flaws as harshly because of the person's external appearance. Reminds me a bit of the news reports of teenage girls who fawn over the Boston Marathon bomber and believe him to be innocent simply because they think he… [view original content]
Comments
My thoughts exactly. You're the one getting angrily defensive of a man who slaughters and eats people (children too if you saw all those stacked up toys), apparently because he's handsome. But something is wrong with me because I think he's a monster who deserves to die. I think we both know he's not going to live past the next few episodes anyway, so you can save your sarcasm. Don't forget, you started this with your "chill" picture.
Oh my god, I'm actually laughing at this.
And you say I get angrily defensive? You got really damn defensive on something that doesn't even involve your opinion on. I couldn't give two shits if you hate him or not, I personally think his actor/character is hot. What does that have to do with him being a "piece of shit who needs to die"? And I'm not even trying to justify his actions because he's hot. Me liking him as a villain has nothing to do with his appearance.
This is why I haven't been on lately, people are just desperate to start an argument that they aren't involved with in the first place. But obviously, of course, if I have an opinion it must be shut down and obviously wrong by yours.
Do me a favor, and get over yourself.
You still don't get it. You're the one that started the argument and now you're trying to laugh it off. That's fine. I don't want to get into arguments with people who can't respect anyone else's opinion. I didn't see anything in your post thst said "no one else reply", but you seem to be one of those people who uses rudeness and sarcasm to make your point. So, we'll leave it at that.
There is no "good and evil" there are people who are alive and then there are the survivors that do whatever it takes to survive.
The Terminus people got a raw deal.
And now, by their new philosophy, they're the same sort of monsters who preyed on them.
So **** them both.
That's my take on the subject.
Eh, "whatever it takes" is often an excuse.
Carol gave an excellent rebuttal to Tasha Yarr.
"You're the cattle or the butcher."
Carol is a bull.
I think eating children is pretty evil. Those people didnt need to do that. They just like the abundance of human meat.
Everyone has a reason for what they do, of course.
However, survival isn't always a reason which justifies everything (IMHO).
And the Terminus folk aren't killing to survive.
They're killing to get back their sense of power they lost.
Good and evil are subjective according to my values, which is existential Christianity. I.e. I was given a mind by God, so I determine what is right and wrong.
However, in a existential worldview, this doesn't mean good and evil DON'T EXIST.
It means that whatever I judge to be Good and Evil are deeply, personally true according to me. Which means that if I think the Terminus people need to die, they do and I should carry that out.
Rick, obviously, feels the same.
I agree. It's all about being "the butcher or the cattle". They are just despicable people. You dont answer atrocity with more atrocity.
Can you actually go and re-read the first two comments? Like I said, I don't care if you don't like Gareth. I like him, and his appearance. Then you had to say "omg he's lyk so evil hes a piece of crap he should die". You didn't even have to say that.
But common sense is to respect someone's opinion, right? Just like you said?
Sarcasm is my thing, rudeness is yours. Also, do me a favor. Don't try to start arguments and completely contradict yourself.
On my end, I think the Terminus people kind of nicely demonstrate a lesson from Alan Moore's "The Killing Joke." The Joker's quote-unquote "Origin Story." In that story, the Joker gets roped into being part of a chemical plant heist when he's not a criminal but a (very bad) comedian. He does this because he's trying to provide for his (very pregnant) wife.
The short version is a series of comically tragic events occur which end up killing his wife and child in an accident before he's forced to go on the heist anyway, only to get dumped in a chemical bath. The Joker determines from this series of events that life is meaningless and anyone could become a monster (like him) given enough bad stimulus.
This is why he thinks Batman is like him because he can sense Batman had "a bad day" once, which made him who he is. Batman, of all people, refutes the Joker's logic in the story. While Batman, yes, DID have a bad day which turned him into a warped crazy person (he admits that as much as anyone) other people have bad days too and they DON'T become like the Joker or Batman.
So maybe their justification is just that. Rick's group of Survivors, really, challenge the Terminus folk's sense of self and I suspect (if they knew the whole story) would get really-really upset at them because they've gone through stuff which is almost as bad. Maybe not the sexual abuse element but certainly they've been kept in box cars and used as food products as well as chased from one end of Georgia to the next.
And they're NOT crazy. Desperate, scared, battered, traumatized, and maybe a little insane? Yes. They came to Terminus, though, for help and would have given help to the Termites if they could. The whole misguided Washington D.C. trip is because they DO still care. In short, the Termites got a raw deal and I would understand if they became bandits or suspiscious isolationists or murderers who tortured the people who tortured them endlessly.
They didn't, though. The Termites became predators on people unrelated to the horrors which befell them. They became who preyed on them.
And it takes a special kind of messed up to do that given most people would die or become bandits or become Rick's group before they became cannibal serial killers.
Me too, but eating someone's named Bob leg... it's just something you don't do.
Bob is a holy name and everyone should respect that
I disagree that they are killing to regain their power. They had to kill to take Terminus back, yes, but they continue to capture and kill for food, they were smoking the meat to make it last.
You are right one one thing, not every action justifies survival but that would be up to the individual. Killing for food to survive is for survival. Killing for sport, where you gain nothing, or rape where you gain nothing, is an atrocity.
I'm just going to jump into this conversation and agree that yes, Gareth is pretty damn hot. Buuuuuuuut he still needs to die because he's fucked up, regardless of how ridiculously attractive I find him to be.
And it really seems like they don't even need to eat people to survive no matter how much they try to convince themselves of that being the case. That was made even more obvious to me the way Gareth was basically taunting Bob while eating his leg and just being a general creepy dick.
Imagine cannibalism as a scale, on one end you have the Donner Party and on the opposite end there's Hannibal and I really think Terminus is more like the latter. Just my opinion.
It is but they need to survive too.
They don't need all that meat. They could survive the way everyone else is, foraging, farming, whatever. They must have killed hundreds of people, children included. I firmly believe they eat people just because they can, and that they somehow think they are higher beings. Especially with Gareth saying that eating people was just part of them becoming evolved. Gareth is nuts and he infected everyone else with his sickness.
They don't need to eat people to survive and why are they more important than anyone else?
I don't understand this concept of Evil. I just be myself.
In the apocalypse it's hard to follow a good moral, you can't be good without being evil because Survivors survive by finding and taking food that may have saved another person. Killing, morally, is regarded as evil no matter what, so killing Walkers is morally evil. If we are going with innocence, everyone is technically a killer as we all kill billions of microbes daily just by taking a step in any direction. :x
It really doesn't matter what their evil is a result of. Its still evil. There is honestly no defending these people in my book.
If they can't find food then it is necessary it is basic survival, it is sick yes but if you are starving you will eat just about anything. And they are not more important no one is, they need food and believe it or not humans have meat on them = food.
Eating people is the very very very last resort when you are desperate to the point of insanity. These people dont look that desperate. If other survivors can get along without slaughtering and eating people, they could have, they just didnt want to.
If the only choice is between killing another human being and survival, most people would choose another human being.
However, when that person is someone you lure to their deaths by promising to help them.
And may include children.
Yeah, I think maybe death is better. After all, life is not infinite and you're going to die anyway.
okay.
But how does Gareth's sex appeal connect with his actions? Please, tell me so.
That's what the other poster was arguing about. All I said was "chill".
It must be how I'm reading it, but his response sounded pretty damn hostile to me.
Same goes for killing/robbing people even though sometimes you have to in defense. And it is not insanity it is basic animal instinct. And yes we are animals.
I disagree. They didn't need to do any of this, they just chose to, and I do believe it was mostly for having power over others.
No excuse
When they brutally kill the cannibals:
"I FEEL SO BAD RIGHT NOW SAD FACE"
absolutely!
the termites chose the convenient path to survive rather than bonding with other survivors to find food, shelter etc, but that's what would happen and forces the good people to do bad things just to live.
I kinda didn't like the S1E2 at the St. Johns. A few month into the ZA, a farm with corn fields and a cow and they are cannibles already? Really??
I believe some may resort to that later on, a good 17 months like in the tv show is more believable to me.
Still, it could happen and however you feel about it could dictate which side of the oven your on!
Because it's fucking entertaining that's why and it's not depressing. If you think the show is depressing then you have to think the game is too.
Sexual urges, do you think?
So what if they do? He was an interesting character and provided great moments. You just sound very simple minded, he eats people and? He hasn't even been around long enough or did anything to have you feel such a strong hate. I just don't get idiots like you, that is such a generic reason and feels like you force it.
Yeah, because there is no "right" or "wrong".
Well I don't know who any of you are to say what is "okay" and what's not. Anyway, all humans are "evil" because we're all animals at heart, all capable of doing things that might be considered "evil". Also, people can be evil in the most subtle ways and no one is "good", people just pretend and wear masks, just conform to society. Without all of the laws and social conventions, you would see people's true colors.
It doesn't. But the fact that you went into a thread discussing the morality of a group of rapists and cannibals only to comment on the attractiveness of their leader is a bit eyebrow raising.
Your original comment, if taken seriously, comes off as completely missing the point in a very bad way. If I show you footage of a man committing horrific crimes like rape, murder, and cannibalism and your response to that is "Wow, he's hot," that suggests something about your character that's not very flattering.
It suggests that you're shallow and prioritize external appearance above horrifying character flaws. Or worse, that you don't judge said horrifying character flaws as harshly because of the person's external appearance. Reminds me a bit of the news reports of teenage girls who fawn over the Boston Marathon bomber and believe him to be innocent simply because they think he's dreamy.
That being said, I think you were going for more of a humorous approach with your comment.
I'd tell you to stop insulting other users before you get banned, but I'm not really sure that I'm against that happening.
Besides the "But Gareth is hot", I did make my say in it. I said "I don't know," which in all honesty, I don't. I don't know if in this case it's okay to be evil. Not to mention if I say Gareth, the character, is hot, aren't I really saying that Andrew J. West is hot? Because to me, he is. And I really like Gareth's character, I think he's an excellent villain with a philosophy that's intriguing, but wrong. Gareth is a fictional character, doing bad actions in a fictional story. Key word: Fictional. Humorous approach or not, his appearance shouldn't have anything to do with his actions.