Why do people dislike S2 Clementine?
A lot of people don't like S2 Clementine and I don't really know why, quite a few people think she is cold and that she lacks emotion and they're entitled to their opinion but I don't think she is cold and I do think she is quite an emotional person, for sure she has changed into a more colder person but she is not emotionless and she still has empathy, the way she has changed is just a reflection on how she must be to survive in the world how it is.
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I dont know how people can not like what Season 2 Clem becomes considering you are playing as her making her do what she does
When people say season 2 Clem is emotionless it's like saying Lee is emotionless. Some people can't distinguish the difference between being emotionless and being reserved
They dislike her because they say she's emotionless, when she's easily showed plenty of emotion throughout season 2.
Thats well put
Jesus. A year ago, this place was full of annoying "Still not bitten" threads. I'd go so far as to say the people who enjoy Clem's 'badass' character in S2 are more vocal than the minority who don't enjoy her S2 character.
Personally, I don't like Clem's character in S2 because it detracts from what I liked about her innocent, hopeful character in S1. Doesn't feel like Clem to me.
They think she's emotionless, but she's not emotionless, people think that just because she's stronger and colder than last season it makes her emotionless. She's harsher now than before because this is her life now. It's also possible she doesn't want to pan out her emotions as much as last season because she's afraid she'll be looked at as weak and taken advantage of, just like Michelle saw her.
It's not really about Clem being "emotionless". It's the fact that this new Clementine was thrown at us with no build up and no development. They just gave us a very ill-advised time skip and then smash cut to Clem looking depressed and season 2 Clementine is born. Not emotionless, necessarily, but lacking all optimism and hope that characterized her in season 1. That was the reason people liked Clementine in the first place, so the jarring cut turned a lot of people off from the start.
Also the fact that some of her choices really do make her seem like a cold jerk, and while you can argue that that's dependent on character choice, the fact is that each of those options are "canon". Maybe not personally to someone, but they are included because they are perceived by the writers to be fitting for her character. That's why saying something that's vaguely insulting to Sarah is included, but not an option to say "Holy fucking shit, that fucking hurt like a motherfucker!" And a lot of people did not like those more rude and uncaring comments Clementine had the capacity to make in season 2.
She's seen so many people die it's hard for her not lose hope, people she really cared about, but she never gives up hope. No matter how bad it gets.
Are you serious? She lived nearly two years in a ZA since the ending of S1, in which she either saw her hero just die, and turn, or killed him before he could turn, and then during the time skip she likely saw a baby die, in some fashion.
Why anybody expected the same S1 Clem, is beyond me. People forget that she was coddled by Lee for the most part in S1.
All of what you said is obvious to us all. The problem is that we don't see that progression so it doesn't feel natural. They skipped over a significant portion of her life with little explanation except the vaguest of "this world is hard and stuff" crap. The fact that you have to say that she "likely" saw a baby die is proof of that. Now see, this wouldn't be so bad if they had eventually explained what happened in those months, not just to the baby, but between Christa and Clementine. There's nothing wrong with some good visual set up and then explaining what happened to make those early moments more powerful. But guess what? They didn't do that.
We can't connect to this development because we have no idea what happened. Telltale wanted to start anew with a blank slate character, but that's quite frankly a bad idea when you have an established character already. This is exactly why people were wary of playing Clementine before the season came out. Looks like they certainly had some good points.
The problem isn't that we don't get why she is the way she is in season 2. I don't think anybody wanted a happy-go-lucky Clementine. They wanted to see an emotionally vulnerable Clem adjust to life without Lee and eventually recover, gaining some hope back because that's what most of us imparted to her as Lee. Making Clem lose hope over time could have been a powerful story, no denying that. But the problem is that Telltale took an established character and decided her growth and change wasn't an interesting story and instead wanted to focus on an uber-bad guy and a cast of underdeveloped characters instead, so they artificially made her "darker and edgier" with no real context.
To put it simply, it's the difference between having a character whose family dies in painful flashbacks that we get to see, and a character who has to be explained by another character as such: "Don't be so hard on him. He lost his whole family, you know." One of these is more emotional and well told, and it ain't the latter.
Like the other comments, everybody thinks she's emotionless. But I think other wise, I think she's well collected and she's mentally strong, when she does show emotion it can be powerful. Like the end of the game, whether if Clem is pissed at Kenny/Jane or during the fight if choose to pull them away. She isn't really emotionless, people just say that because she isn't "Season One Clem" anymore.
I've seen less complaints about Clem herself than I have on how her age and position with the group was handled. i.e. The overreliance of the adults, and Clem's bouts of super-strength.
That aside, I was disappointed that we're not given the chance to see Clementine connect with anyone to the same degree that Lee was able to connect with her. Lee's relationships with others were what really defined him for me, and Clem doesn't have as many opportunities to develop in that area.
I agree with the part about the time skips ruining development escalation. They had a total of about 3 time-skips this season for what reason laziness?? (No rhyme pun intended there) .First the evidence of Christa's advancing pregnancy because she obviously looks about 7 to 8 months pregnant from the last time she was seen in Season 1 and that awful 16 month time-skip with a ton of information about Christa and Clementine's obviously strained relationship left out as well as what happened to Christa's pregnancy was omitted out for no reason because it's never mentioned at all again by Clementine when it was much needed during Rebecca's labor and pregnancy. Then we had the 5 day time-skip when Clem and the Cabin group was taking a journey to a new location to evade Carver, Then the last one was the 9 day skip from the last episode to either get to Wellington, Howe's, or alone in a field approaching a walker herd.
Season 1 only had 1 time-skip which was the 3 month jump from "A New Day" to "Starved For Help". Bottom-line point I'm making is that time-skips when used too redundantly cheapen the flavor of the plot. We could of gotten like at least an extra 30 minutes of game-play had TTG only used 1 or no significantly great timeskips this season. The only necessary time-skip I understood was maybe the 5 day time skip to the Ski Lodge but even then we could of interacted with the Cabin group more along the way. The A House Divided episode should of mainly focused on Carver and the Cabin Group's origins as well as Clem proving to be a capable and loyal member of the group since some of the Cabin members seemed to distrust her in episode 1 (Rebecca and Carlos mainly).. even though Kenny was a pleasant surprised he sort of came in and out-shined all of the new characters from like the 2nd half of episode 2 until the finale of season 2.
i take it was the 16 month time skip people were bothered with since that's when clementine was shown to have a drastic change in character. it'd be nice if the player were actually allowed to see her progress in those 16 months rather than have them glossed over considering it's obviously a very important segway to the clem we know in season 2.
Yeah, you make a lot of good points. I just got frustrated because most people just say "I want my innocent little Clem!" all the time.
However, I still think that a time skip is necessary, because of AJ. Maybe TTG could do what Naughty Dog, and Bethesda did, and do a prequel comic (or even in small book), that gave background/backstory for the characters.
because she's like a robot? ... just a guess
She's not like a robot. I don't know where people get that impression. I love S2 Clementine. I loved seeing the completely understandable changes in her and the strength that she gained.
I agree
If you were to ask me, I prefer Season 2 Clementine over Season 1. I love S1 Clem a lot, but I have control over her and can make her who I want to be without completely destroying her character in S2. She's not emotionless, she's just, and I think someone said it before me, more reserved, and who wouldn't be after everyone around her has died horribly. I feel she had plenty of emotion, especially in the last episode, and I think part of that is due to AJ, it gives her a new form of hope and optimism, feelings she hasn't had since Lee died.
Remember, she's only cold if you make her cold.
Yeah, a lot of stuff was under utilized this season. I don't think they should have brought Kenny back until later in the season, or next season, not episode 2 of season 2. I mean, Telltale got rid of Omid and Christa to separate her from anything familiar, then they just brought Kenny back, it undercut the whole thing.
Personally, I would have liked episode 2 to focus on the five day time skip and the Cabin Group, we could get development off them and learn about their lives and what Carver wanted. The five day time skip felt pointless, due to the fact that it could have been any amount of time and they could have reached the mountain. It could have been 1,2,3 or 4, Heck, even 6 days could have worked. It just felt really unnecessary, especially because it seems like Clementine only then asks why Carver is following them.
Just my two cents.
Personally I still love season 2 Clementine as much as Season 1 Clementine and probably always will..
Allot of people didn't like season 2 Clementine because she didn't have the cuteness trait anymore unlike season 1. Allot of people also don't like season 2 Clementine because she hasn't listened to Lees words that he has said to Clem (eg: shooting changes you Clem, only do it when necessary.)
Things like this bug really picky/major fans of The Walking Dead..
Shes not emotionless shes the playable character thats why, they cant show emotion or any real personality compared to non players
I summon @marioluigi344 in this thread!
Boring, i'm tired of the Clementine Sob story, either kill her off or give her that happy ending.
Yoda! Truly no wiser words has ever been spoken! Take my like!
Telltale would get a hell load of grief from fans if they killed her off.
I dislike everyone that dislikes Clementine. Pity the fools.
Im not sure where this idea of lack of emotions is from but this was never a issue of sorts imo...
The issue I had was the overall way that S2 was writen considering we are supposed to be playing a 12 yr old, it was too early to play her full stop, the best they COULD have done at this age poi t was to put us/clem in lots situations like clem was in s1 over leaving ben behind... basicly can we talk the group around to do the right thing or what we want, basically it would be a verbal game, there aint a fat lot a 12 yr old is going to be able to do in situation such as a ZA...
Yes have her handling a gun, yes lets have some awsome clem coming to the rescue just intime shocking and saving the group, and maybe 1 mabe 2x max her using her smaller size/weight to help the group in some way...
BUT
What we ended up with was a 12 yr old rambo that put everyone to shame again and again bar kenny and he was certified insane by ep3..
Im sorry but having a 12 yr old take point on a bridge assault isnt realistic in the slightest, giving clem the job of using the binoculars to scout the other side of a river is NOT realistic. ..Giving a 12 yr old the job of shutting down a wind turbine Is not realistic.....
It was to early to play clem.. simple as that, and if we had to play clem it was badly writen considering this fact
Clem did everything ONLY BECAUSE ...... WE! The player was playing her character.... and it was totall sacrilege to cannibalise her character to fit the writers bad decision...
Thats my issue with s2 clem and s2 as a whole
It's not Clementine. It's playing AS Clementine. Even in the world of fiction it's silly to think of a bunch of adults taking advice from a child. Like Mark Twain once said "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." Playing as a little girl makes no sense to me. If she was alone trying to survive then it's ok. But for her to be some sort decision maker of adults is just dumb.
The last paragraph really applies to Kenny 2.0. A lot of his characterization is dependent on the good-will earned in the previous season, and for me all his angsting and moaning about his dead family falls flat because, well, there are other living characters whose suffering is actually more worth paying attention to than remaining stuck in what happened off-screen. (Hello, Amid The Ruins) If you look at S2 Kenny without having played Season 1, he becomes a lot less sympathetic because he then becomes a constantly hostile asshole who then repeatedly expects you to forgive him by talking about characters whom we never see in this season.
Sarah gets an actual character arc, so to speak, in that we SEE her break down completely, and she's not even the deuteragonist. Clem, the supposed protagonist of Season 2, doesn't have that character arc.
Maybe in the short term. In the long term I'd be happier. I don't want her killed off but I'd like for either her story to be finished or be more in the background like in the first game.
I hope you aren't serious. To dislike real people for a fake one?
I feel that she's underwritten. On the surface, I actually like the idea that she's been ground down into a resentful, repressed, miserable mess of a child.
But Season 2 should have been about that transformation, rather than using it as the starting point, because otherwise why not use a different child protagonist like Becca? The fact that she gets multiple endings is a sign that Telltale themselves didn't know where her character arc was meant to lead. Is she meant to become a nasty person because, according to the writers, that's the only way you can be? Does she become a 'tough' loner like the sociopathic Jane? Does she remain subservient to an emotionally abusive, unstable mess of a man?
And really, I'm quite pissed that the writers chose to use Sarah as a prop to show how 'badass' Clem (look at how all the grown-ups rely on her!) rather than actually letting Clem form a friendship with another child. That, along with Clem shrugging off gunshot wounds like nothing, is a consequence of the writers not actually knowing what to say about a child protagonist other than "she's too tough to be a child."
Yea it would also be pretty cool to see her again in later series, that would be real fun...
I personally don't like the sound of her voice in S2 and I think that her character is not that great either. Well that's mostly just down to lazy writing again because it seems to me that they are idle and just put in the minimal amount of effort.
They can't really do anything to fix Clem's character since she's the playable character. Choices create inconsistent characterization. 1 min she's acting like season 1 Clem being all cute and the next min she's being a sassy little badass, then she's back to being season 1 Clem again within seconds. She's basically just the player's puppet and not her own character in season 2.
The reason why it worked for Lee in season 1 is because every player (every Lee) had the same overall goal which was Protect Clem. In season 2 Clem has no goal, no purpose apart from just survive, so different players want different things, different Clem's want different things, therefore the inconsistency.
That may be the reason why they decided to keep AJ with Clem during all of season 2s endings, to give Clem her purpose. That's one way to fix it I guess.
A Good Boy Tobi Is
CAUSE CLEM AINT GOT NO BOOTY!
Welllllll.....
I guess your question was answered by the people above me. But for me, i'm one of those weird fucks that actually liked Season 2 Clem more than Season 1.(Just trying to be funny. No offense to anyone) I really liked her this time around, because she had to change to adapt to her new world. Putting on a new mask to fit the scene as you will. She was not as sweet or innocent this time around and it shows how the ZA can change even the most strong willed of people. Shit, just look at Walter when he found out what happened to Matthew. And he was one of the most friendliest guys in the game.
It made sense to me, but some people hated the About Face of her character. Which I could understand, but it they seem to overreach just a tiny bit...
Yes under utilized is an understatement. Each episode could of easily been 30 minutes extra of game-play with hubs and character interaction or mini games on the side Maybe Clementine could of tried hunting Raccons (maybe even the same ones from episode 4 lol) with Pete in the woods to help prove her capabilities to the Cabin members for example, (even Ellie hunted a deer from Last Of Us). I felt season 2 had more action with all the quick time events even improved graphics than season 1, but lacked the emotion, logic and realism season 1 had.. One thing I will say that I am glad and proud TTG did with season 2, was they did not end it all with another cliffhanger ending. Which is torture especially with how long Tell-Tale takes to make create a season or even one episode.