He waits till the dark of midnight to strike...like a Cobra. :P
He is very impulsive, with me and Kenny it was a love hate relationship (Mostly hate), with me and Jane it was Hate, Hate, JANE YOU SAVED US, Hate, dead.
LOL it seems like he took of the arguing maybe. Maybe he learned what respect means?
Yeah, she is impulsive, he isn't stupid he just without thinking does what he thinks is best.
Heh lol maybe , in my country it is already midnight I did love Kenny but sometimes you gotta hate someone you love and in real life, you also hurt the ones you love the most because they care. Jane for me was nothing, did nothing, was nothing and that about raps it up.
He waits till the dark of midnight to strike...like a Cobra. :P
He is very impulsive, with me and Kenny it was a love hate relationship (Mostly hate), with me and Jane it was Hate, Hate, JANE YOU SAVED US, Hate, dead.
Heh lol maybe , in my country it is already midnight I did love Kenny but sometimes you gotta hate someone you love and in real life, you … morealso hurt the ones you love the most because they care. Jane for me was nothing, did nothing, was nothing and that about raps it up.
I couldn't shoot Kenny, I couldn't bring myself to do it.
I love the difference on everyone's opinions on characters on this game. Y… moreou couldn't kill Kenny because you're attached, I could because I believed it was murder.
I know this was out of nowhere, but your comment made me realize how much this game really makes people feel.
This is why I chose to shoot Kenny and left with Jane. As much as I loved Kenny, I felt Jane was the best choice to help Clem survive.
Carver made a lot of sense in his reasoning it was just his method's were misguided. Like killing Reggie. Sure Reggie was weak but he was still an able bodied man who could contribute more than Sarah could. Killing him over something as trivial as not suprivising the girl's better was a waste just to scare the girl's into learning to obey his orders. Taking a group to follow the cabin group for day's just for Rebecca and a baby was a terrible decision. It was far too much risk to try to capture people that ran away.
Jane was similar, knowing thing's to survive is all good including knowing how to manipulate people, but that doesn't mean doing it the way she did with Clem was right.. I hated having to tell Jane I forgave her, but I needed to in order to keep Clem with Jane
Clem will need to learn from Jane, not only how to better kill walker's, but also how to manipulate or convince other's to do what she think's is right.
The skill's are needed, the way they think need to be for survival, they just have to learn not to go so far into hatred or revenge that they become blind to what really matters.
That's what happened to Carver (and the Governor) and even Kenny was sliding down that path. I would even say Jane was too in how her plan caused (my) Clem to kill Kenny. Her intentions may have been valid, just her method was too far.
Still, in my way of thinking, I am hoping that Clem learns all she can from Jane and if the situation come's, My Clem will have used Jane to survive and will kill her later if needed. We all know something will happen to Jane because of the determinate issue but like I said, the onl;y reason I 'forgave' her was to use her to survive. I can't really forget and forgive her for what she did so when the time come's I will do what I have to.
Maybe he learned what respect means?
I'm pretty sure most people already think I'm pretty respectful. Also, respect goes both ways; … moreI can't just respect you guys, when you don't respect me, or my opinion. There's gotta be some sort of truce.
Anyways, Kenny was impulsive, stubborn and while maybe not stupid, per se, he wasn't very smart either. Jane was cold, pessimistic and manipulative. Both did negatives and positives, but I chose Jane because she's smarter; in a ZA a calm, practical thinker is what is needed, even if they can be immoral at times.
I'm pretty sure most people already think I'm pretty respectful. Also, respect goes both ways; I can't just respect you guys, when you don't respect me, or my opinion. There's gotta be some sort of truce.
Anyways, Kenny was impulsive, stubborn and while maybe not stupid, per se, he wasn't very smart either. Jane was cold, pessimistic and manipulative. Both did negatives and positives, but I chose Jane because she's smarter; in a ZA a calm, practical thinker is what is needed, even if they can be immoral at times.
LOL it seems like he took of the arguing maybe. Maybe he learned what respect means?
Yeah, she is impulsive, he isn't stupid he just without thinking does what he thinks is best.
I couldn't shoot Kenny, I couldn't bring myself to do it... But there is another main character that was not Kenny and I had #MyClementine shoot him before he turned
It was kind of annoying at times, but it made things interesting. I personally wasn't for removing it.
Yeah, I'm definitely embracing my inner Shane fanboyism. I only hope that people around here don't assume that I'm some sort of douchebag because I have a Shane avatar lol.
It was kind of annoying at times, but it made things interesting. I personally wasn't for removing it.
Yeah, I'm definitely embracing my … moreinner Shane fanboyism. I only hope that people around here don't assume that I'm some sort of douchebag because I have a Shane avatar lol.
It was kind of annoying at times, but it made things interesting. I personally wasn't for removing it.
Yeah, I'm definitely embracing my … moreinner Shane fanboyism. I only hope that people around here don't assume that I'm some sort of douchebag because I have a Shane avatar lol.
It was always great to take the time to write out a well thought argument only to get torn to shreds by downvotes. I always just kind of thought to myself: "Whatever guys, get outta here. You know I'm right". It was kind of a compliment in it's own right lol.
I've always just had the feeling that he's kind of hated for some reason... which, if he is, I understand I guess. I do also think he is kind of undeniably one of the greatest characters to come out of the show as well.
I only disliked it when people would down vote simply for the sake of down voting. But I agree, it made debates more intense lol.
Nah, Sh… moreane's a really interesting character, by no means perfect, but one of the greatest characters to come out of the tv show imo.
That happened to me numerous times as well. I always took it as them not being able to debunk my argument, so they just down voted in the midst of a hissy fit haha. It is a compliment in a way now that I think about it.XD
I guess the reasons why Shane is hated is why I like him so much. He is just such a raw and intense character to the point where I'd almost forget that he is fictional and not an actual person. Same goes for Merle, who is still my top favorite character.
It was always great to take the time to write out a well thought argument only to get torn to shreds by downvotes. I always just kind of tho… moreught to myself: "Whatever guys, get outta here. You know I'm right". It was kind of a compliment in it's own right lol.
I've always just had the feeling that he's kind of hated for some reason... which, if he is, I understand I guess. I do also think he is kind of undeniably one of the greatest characters to come out of the show as well.
Yeah, can't disagree there, Carver's tactics of survival were smart, doesn't make it morally good though, but to some people, Carver was doing what was best for the community.
There's an interesting theory/speculation from Kenny's Walking Dead wiki page, which states that, if he had not heard AJ's cries after killing Jane, he might have just laid there, waiting to freeze to death.
Yes, Kenny needs anchors.
He becomes depressed if he loses them and almost comes to a point of just being a shell. I remember Sarita talk… moreing about how she found Kenny in a diner and his beard was longer than it was in S2. Kenny just doesn't care when he has nothing...
When I was deciding to either go into Wellington or stay with Kenny this topic came into mind. Kenny through both seasons had a goal...To survive and take care of his family in S1 and later in S1 protect Clem for Lee. In S2 it was to protect Clem and the group and later on to protect Clem and AJ. I feel like if Clem and AJ went into Wellington Kenny would feel at rest and finally accept he has finished his purpose. In both Seasons he failed at his tasks....His family died and he never found out what happened to Clem...In season two most of the group died. If Clem and AJ left him then he would probably go into the forest and shoot himself...As sad as it is...That's why I we… [view original content]
Remember that Sarita died 2 days before the incident. Kenny hadn't had enough time to get over her. If they had waited a couple more days, he would've handled the situation better.
Edit: Just realized that the player can decide to spend more days at Parker's Run, so defeating this argument...
I actually liked Kenny, understood why he does what he does. He was disturbed and had a lot of issues but tha doesn't justifies his actions.… more I don't remember what but there was something i really thought was a horrible thing to do.
Jane on th other hand, i didn't dislike her i was netrual, din't like her either, i just met her and all she did was critized everyone and only being good at Clem, for all i know she could've talked about her behind her back like she did about everyone. The only person she was direct with was Kenny. Because she wanted to provoce him to proove a point. What mostly frustrated me is that from the beginning she was working with the group to get out but then when she didn't need them anymore she decided to leave. She came back, that is where i started to see that she is unstable too and even though she wants to survive on her own she wanted Clem to be like her sister, that she lost maybe to stop feeling guilty for wha… [view original content]
Actually you morgue people you love more than a week, more than a month even more than a year if you loved the person. So however you turn it around it is okay to feel angry.
Remember that Sarita died 2 days before the incident. Kenny hadn't had enough time to get over her. If they had waited a couple more days, h… moree would've handled the situation better.
Edit: Just realized that the player can decide to spend more days at Parker's Run, so defeating this argument...
Please ignore this comment.
I think a lot of people here get stuck on moral issue's when it's a ZA and everything including morality has changed. We all live in today's world and this is how we think. It's difficult to put ourselves into the shoes of the character's because we truly are not going through what they are.. So how do we justify the character's action's when we think in today's world?
I tend to forget about moral's when I play TWD.. For me it's survival. As I've said before, yu can call me bad or immoral or whatever, it's doesn't matter as long as I'm alive and that's how I played Lee and Clem. (Best I could given the options within the game of course)
I had Clem take Arvo's drugs, we needed them, Rebecca was in pain having the baby, Kenny's eye was messed up, we would need all that.. And I wanted Jane to shoot Arvo so he couldnt return to harm us. But we wern't given that option and look what happened.
It a ZA and being worried about moral's is a waste of time and will get more people killed.
Well like you said, that's your viewpoint. Some of us value our morals and humanity even in dire situations. It's not about being a better person, but in the ZA, I wouldn't only be thinking of myself. But that's just me.
I think a lot of people here get stuck on moral issue's when it's a ZA and everything including morality has changed. We all live in today'… mores world and this is how we think. It's difficult to put ourselves into the shoes of the character's because we truly are not going through what they are.. So how do we justify the character's action's when we think in today's world?
I tend to forget about moral's when I play TWD.. For me it's survival. As I've said before, yu can call me bad or immoral or whatever, it's doesn't matter as long as I'm alive and that's how I played Lee and Clem. (Best I could given the options within the game of course)
I had Clem take Arvo's drugs, we needed them, Rebecca was in pain having the baby, Kenny's eye was messed up, we would need all that.. And I wanted Jane to shoot Arvo so he couldnt return to harm us. But we wern't given that option and look what happened.
It a ZA and being worried about moral's is a waste of time and will get more people killed.
I agree with you in that I wouldn't be thinking only of myself because their's safety in number's. The more we have in our group, the better chance to survive. I would make decisions and do whatever I could to help those with me, but that's also about doing what's best for me.
I've said before, I would risk my life for other's but not sacrifice myself for anyone.
Kenny tends to react in the moment without much thought for the consequences. I believe he's thinking about the other's, like in the back of the truck, he wanted to rush the door and fight his way out so everyone could escape, he just wasn't thinking that rushing people with AK's would most likely get himself and possible others killed. The only reason he lived was because he got himself knocked out.
Jane is a bit more level headed but also a bit more devious, so there's a scale between the two of them. A balance of one who is more straight forward but rash, and the other who is a bit more calm, but also manlipative. It's kind of a choice between the lesser of the two evil's. Neither is absolutely right and neither is absolutely wrong.
I think what it comes down to is each of us have our own viewpoint's and have to decide which character we can live with.
I alway's felt Kenny would never intentionally harm Clem, He was like a father to her and I fully trusted him. But in the recent past, with how unstable he's become, he could get himself and Clem killed because he just doesn't think ahead. Jane I don't trust as much as Kenny, however I felt that while she and Clem are together, she could teach Clem the skill's and way of thinking that would better serve Clem.
Kenny was a risk while Jane is a means to an end. For me!
Well like you said, that's your viewpoint. Some of us value our morals and humanity even in dire situations. It's not about being a better person, but in the ZA, I wouldn't only be thinking of myself. But that's just me.
Your right, Nate can justify what he did to the old couple and it doesn't make him 'right' by definition. But to Nate, it was 'right' for him. He'll justify anything to himself and try to persuade other's that he was right in his action's, It's up to us to decide if we're going to accept his reason's or not.
Some think Nate would be good for Clem and teach her his extreme survival way's and that may actually work for a while, but the longer you go killing anyone or using the people your with, the chances of someone feeling that Nate was too quick to kill or too willing to risk the live's of those with him would make him an extreme liability and they would turn on him.
I see Nate being very much like Carver in that he can justify his extreme action's but in the end, it was the people he took to make part of his group that turned against him and killed him.
I agree that morality changes due to the situation, but I absolutely disagree that it disappears entirely. The Saint John's were all about survival too. They're the extreme of your viewpoint. Were you fine with what they were doing?
It's fun for me to make these tough moral decisions precisely because I do care about doing what I think is right. But sometimes that means eliminating someone I feel is a great threat, not due to uselessness but cruelty or immorality.
i.e. I was totally behind killing Carver and the first Saint John brother. In a world with no legal system, vigilante justice is practically the only sort of justice there is, and these people I felt posed way too much of a threat to way too many people to keep them around. And I wouldn't object to someone killing the second Saint John brother either, I just chose not to because the situation had changed, the farm was being overrun, and I didn't want to traumatize Clem any further.
But I don't think it's ever okay to kill an innocent person just because they're weak or they have something you want, or anything of that nature. Even if doing so would really help you out. Frankly I'd be more likely to want to kill the people that do things like that.
I think a lot of people here get stuck on moral issue's when it's a ZA and everything including morality has changed. We all live in today'… mores world and this is how we think. It's difficult to put ourselves into the shoes of the character's because we truly are not going through what they are.. So how do we justify the character's action's when we think in today's world?
I tend to forget about moral's when I play TWD.. For me it's survival. As I've said before, yu can call me bad or immoral or whatever, it's doesn't matter as long as I'm alive and that's how I played Lee and Clem. (Best I could given the options within the game of course)
I had Clem take Arvo's drugs, we needed them, Rebecca was in pain having the baby, Kenny's eye was messed up, we would need all that.. And I wanted Jane to shoot Arvo so he couldnt return to harm us. But we wern't given that option and look what happened.
It a ZA and being worried about moral's is a waste of time and will get more people killed.
Actually you morgue people you love more than a week, more than a month even more than a year if you loved the person. So however you turn it around it is okay to feel angry.
Some think Nate would be good for Clem and teach her his extreme survival way's and that may actually work for a while,
I don't think Nate is a bad guy, i think he is a little crazy because of the loneliness, and he probably doesn't care anymore because of his PTSD. I think if Clementine was in Nate's life he would be more respectful, even Nate would fall for Clementine's cuteness.
Your right, Nate can justify what he did to the old couple and it doesn't make him 'right' by definition. But to Nate, it was 'right' for h… moreim. He'll justify anything to himself and try to persuade other's that he was right in his action's, It's up to us to decide if we're going to accept his reason's or not.
Some think Nate would be good for Clem and teach her his extreme survival way's and that may actually work for a while, but the longer you go killing anyone or using the people your with, the chances of someone feeling that Nate was too quick to kill or too willing to risk the live's of those with him would make him an extreme liability and they would turn on him.
I see Nate being very much like Carver in that he can justify his extreme action's but in the end, it was the people he took to make part of his group that turned against him and killed him.
So blame Jane for not pulling her from under a fallen deck, while fending off walkers at the same time, as the rest of her group, including Clem, gawks at her instead of providing cover?
Comments
LOL it seems like he took of the arguing maybe. Maybe he learned what respect means?
Yeah, she is impulsive, he isn't stupid he just without thinking does what he thinks is best.
He waits till the dark of midnight to strike...like a Cobra. :P
He is very impulsive, with me and Kenny it was a love hate relationship (Mostly hate), with me and Jane it was Hate, Hate, JANE YOU SAVED US, Hate, dead.
Heh lol maybe , in my country it is already midnight
I did love Kenny but sometimes you gotta hate someone you love and in real life, you also hurt the ones you love the most because they care. Jane for me was nothing, did nothing, was nothing and that about raps it up.
It's only 5 here...
But yup.
The way I see it, if you can get a difference in opinion like this, that means the game's doing something right
This is why I chose to shoot Kenny and left with Jane. As much as I loved Kenny, I felt Jane was the best choice to help Clem survive.
Carver made a lot of sense in his reasoning it was just his method's were misguided. Like killing Reggie. Sure Reggie was weak but he was still an able bodied man who could contribute more than Sarah could. Killing him over something as trivial as not suprivising the girl's better was a waste just to scare the girl's into learning to obey his orders. Taking a group to follow the cabin group for day's just for Rebecca and a baby was a terrible decision. It was far too much risk to try to capture people that ran away.
Jane was similar, knowing thing's to survive is all good including knowing how to manipulate people, but that doesn't mean doing it the way she did with Clem was right.. I hated having to tell Jane I forgave her, but I needed to in order to keep Clem with Jane
Clem will need to learn from Jane, not only how to better kill walker's, but also how to manipulate or convince other's to do what she think's is right.
The skill's are needed, the way they think need to be for survival, they just have to learn not to go so far into hatred or revenge that they become blind to what really matters.
That's what happened to Carver (and the Governor) and even Kenny was sliding down that path. I would even say Jane was too in how her plan caused (my) Clem to kill Kenny. Her intentions may have been valid, just her method was too far.
Still, in my way of thinking, I am hoping that Clem learns all she can from Jane and if the situation come's, My Clem will have used Jane to survive and will kill her later if needed. We all know something will happen to Jane because of the determinate issue but like I said, the onl;y reason I 'forgave' her was to use her to survive. I can't really forget and forgive her for what she did so when the time come's I will do what I have to.
@Majda
I predicted correctly!
I'm pretty sure most people already think I'm pretty respectful. Also, respect goes both ways; I can't just respect you guys, when you don't respect me, or my opinion. There's gotta be some sort of truce.
Anyways, Kenny was impulsive, stubborn and while maybe not stupid, per se, he wasn't very smart either. Jane was cold, pessimistic and manipulative. Both did negatives and positives, but I chose Jane because she's smarter; in a ZA a calm, practical thinker is what is needed, even if they can be immoral at times.
My Clementine hasn't killed a single person ;3
You mean directly... She caused the "Jesus are you fuckin' kidding me?!" guy to die.
Seconded, I miss the down vote button.
(off topic, but I just noticed you changed your icon, Shane ftw.)
thanks.:)
Yeah but I wouldnt really count that
It was kind of annoying at times, but it made things interesting. I personally wasn't for removing it.
Yeah, I'm definitely embracing my inner Shane fanboyism. I only hope that people around here don't assume that I'm some sort of douchebag because I have a Shane avatar lol.
Shane was an awesome character!
I only disliked it when people would down vote simply for the sake of down voting. But I agree, it made debates more intense lol.
Nah, Shane's a really interesting character, by no means perfect, but one of the greatest characters to come out of the tv show imo.
It was always great to take the time to write out a well thought argument only to get torn to shreds by downvotes. I always just kind of thought to myself: "Whatever guys, get outta here. You know I'm right". It was kind of a compliment in it's own right lol.
I've always just had the feeling that he's kind of hated for some reason... which, if he is, I understand I guess. I do also think he is kind of undeniably one of the greatest characters to come out of the show as well.
That happened to me numerous times as well. I always took it as them not being able to debunk my argument, so they just down voted in the midst of a hissy fit haha. It is a compliment in a way now that I think about it.XD
I guess the reasons why Shane is hated is why I like him so much. He is just such a raw and intense character to the point where I'd almost forget that he is fictional and not an actual person. Same goes for Merle, who is still my top favorite character.
Your point? That's the reason I like Jane. She's like a sane version of Carver who, let's face it, was right about pretty much everything.
Yeah, can't disagree there, Carver's tactics of survival were smart, doesn't make it morally good though, but to some people, Carver was doing what was best for the community.
He attempted to insult me a few times but it was all in good fun. In the end, he was one of my favorite posters.
There's an interesting theory/speculation from Kenny's Walking Dead wiki page, which states that, if he had not heard AJ's cries after killing Jane, he might have just laid there, waiting to freeze to death.
It's in the trivia section of his page I think.
That goes both ways, doesn't it, Kenny does things his fans disapprove of, and Jane does things her fans disapprove of.
Remember that Sarita died 2 days before the incident. Kenny hadn't had enough time to get over her. If they had waited a couple more days, he would've handled the situation better.
Edit: Just realized that the player can decide to spend more days at Parker's Run, so defeating this argument...
Please ignore this comment.
Actually you morgue people you love more than a week, more than a month even more than a year if you loved the person. So however you turn it around it is okay to feel angry.
I think a lot of people here get stuck on moral issue's when it's a ZA and everything including morality has changed. We all live in today's world and this is how we think. It's difficult to put ourselves into the shoes of the character's because we truly are not going through what they are.. So how do we justify the character's action's when we think in today's world?
I tend to forget about moral's when I play TWD.. For me it's survival. As I've said before, yu can call me bad or immoral or whatever, it's doesn't matter as long as I'm alive and that's how I played Lee and Clem. (Best I could given the options within the game of course)
I had Clem take Arvo's drugs, we needed them, Rebecca was in pain having the baby, Kenny's eye was messed up, we would need all that.. And I wanted Jane to shoot Arvo so he couldnt return to harm us. But we wern't given that option and look what happened.
It a ZA and being worried about moral's is a waste of time and will get more people killed.
Well like you said, that's your viewpoint. Some of us value our morals and humanity even in dire situations. It's not about being a better person, but in the ZA, I wouldn't only be thinking of myself. But that's just me.
Anyone can justify violence in a survival situation. Nate can justify what he did to the old people and eddy, doesn't make it right though.
I agree with you in that I wouldn't be thinking only of myself because their's safety in number's. The more we have in our group, the better chance to survive. I would make decisions and do whatever I could to help those with me, but that's also about doing what's best for me.
I've said before, I would risk my life for other's but not sacrifice myself for anyone.
Kenny tends to react in the moment without much thought for the consequences. I believe he's thinking about the other's, like in the back of the truck, he wanted to rush the door and fight his way out so everyone could escape, he just wasn't thinking that rushing people with AK's would most likely get himself and possible others killed. The only reason he lived was because he got himself knocked out.
Jane is a bit more level headed but also a bit more devious, so there's a scale between the two of them. A balance of one who is more straight forward but rash, and the other who is a bit more calm, but also manlipative. It's kind of a choice between the lesser of the two evil's. Neither is absolutely right and neither is absolutely wrong.
I think what it comes down to is each of us have our own viewpoint's and have to decide which character we can live with.
I alway's felt Kenny would never intentionally harm Clem, He was like a father to her and I fully trusted him. But in the recent past, with how unstable he's become, he could get himself and Clem killed because he just doesn't think ahead. Jane I don't trust as much as Kenny, however I felt that while she and Clem are together, she could teach Clem the skill's and way of thinking that would better serve Clem.
Kenny was a risk while Jane is a means to an end. For me!
Your right, Nate can justify what he did to the old couple and it doesn't make him 'right' by definition. But to Nate, it was 'right' for him. He'll justify anything to himself and try to persuade other's that he was right in his action's, It's up to us to decide if we're going to accept his reason's or not.
Some think Nate would be good for Clem and teach her his extreme survival way's and that may actually work for a while, but the longer you go killing anyone or using the people your with, the chances of someone feeling that Nate was too quick to kill or too willing to risk the live's of those with him would make him an extreme liability and they would turn on him.
I see Nate being very much like Carver in that he can justify his extreme action's but in the end, it was the people he took to make part of his group that turned against him and killed him.
Jane was SUPER character. I do not think soooo
I agree that morality changes due to the situation, but I absolutely disagree that it disappears entirely. The Saint John's were all about survival too. They're the extreme of your viewpoint. Were you fine with what they were doing?
It's fun for me to make these tough moral decisions precisely because I do care about doing what I think is right. But sometimes that means eliminating someone I feel is a great threat, not due to uselessness but cruelty or immorality.
i.e. I was totally behind killing Carver and the first Saint John brother. In a world with no legal system, vigilante justice is practically the only sort of justice there is, and these people I felt posed way too much of a threat to way too many people to keep them around. And I wouldn't object to someone killing the second Saint John brother either, I just chose not to because the situation had changed, the farm was being overrun, and I didn't want to traumatize Clem any further.
But I don't think it's ever okay to kill an innocent person just because they're weak or they have something you want, or anything of that nature. Even if doing so would really help you out. Frankly I'd be more likely to want to kill the people that do things like that.
My thoughts exactly. If Sarah fans want to find someone to blame either of her deaths on, it's Jane.
At least Kenny seems to feel much better in the end.
Yes, he does feel much better. I think it is because of Clementine, because he is the only person he has left that he loves and care about.
I don't think Nate is a bad guy, i think he is a little crazy because of the loneliness, and he probably doesn't care anymore because of his PTSD. I think if Clementine was in Nate's life he would be more respectful, even Nate would fall for Clementine's cuteness.
Discussion:
Your reply:
My reply:
Logic and grammar embraces you my friend.
And Luke and Carlos
So blame Jane for not pulling her from under a fallen deck, while fending off walkers at the same time, as the rest of her group, including Clem, gawks at her instead of providing cover?
Wha?
Luke tried to convince her for hours while being injured, how is he to blame?