I can't say that ALL of season 2 is on par with season 1 (though there are some bits in season 2 that I PREFER to season 1), but your point on Season 2 Episode 3 being he best episode so far is perfect.
My main problem is that it all feels very rushed, and at times there's a lack of choice. For example, I hated Bonnie but she escaped with me and the group and nothing was said about the fact she betrayed us to Carver in the first place. I would've liked it if you could have interacted with all of the 400 days characters in some way, and the way you treated them could influence who went with you (but that's a discussion for another time...)
Also, season 2 loses its focus: it was built up to be all about choosing Clem's character and so on so forth, but in the end your interactions with other characters really made no difference, bar those with Kenny and Jane. The end of season 2 left me confused over what type of person Clem was now- the person I tried to make her, or the person Telltale just thought it would be easier to make her.
Finally, some characters got killed off far too quickly/easily. Carver is my prime example (see my discussion on Carver for that), but Luke should have survived as well. He was a deeper character than Jane and would create more tension as he practically opposed Kenny on every point.
You brought him up. His death was extremely wasted, it felt cheap and pointless. Now its a joke, like how Kenny survived in the alleyway, and their explanation was what again? - Crazygeorge
I can relate to how you feel about Omid's death- which is why it was brilliant move by Telltale in some respects. Killing him off felt like a waste, and immediately brought about that bleak, hopeless feeling that lingers all the way through the series. Kenny's survival was pretty far fetching I must admit, but again it was actually a very good move- no one really expected the secondary character from the first series to return, as he didn't seem to matter that much. It was a good move, and unexpected- I thought Lilly would return, but rather than going down that easy route they decided to bring back a really in depth character and, although as I said his return was a bit of a coincidence, it was well timed and didn't feel very unrealistic despite the fact that, in theory, it was.
I legitimately can't stand Season 2, I'm sorry but it's literally one of the most, if not THE MOST, disappointing sequel I have ever played, now it's not terrible, but there were so many opportunities for better storytelling, the wasted 400 days cast, the forgettable supporting characters, Kenny...ugh, Clementine losing her interesting child like traits in favor for something boring and generic.
I don't think anyone is going to convince me that S2 lived up to the first season, and for now after playing S2, I really just would rather think that S2 never happened and that S1 was its own self contained story, sorry guys.
Well remember, the first episode of The Wolf Among Us was about 2 hours long, but every episode released after that was an hour and a half, … morethe last one was like an hour. The first episode could be two hours and the next few be an hour and a half. I hope they don't do tht, we will just have to wait and see.
Let's have an unpopular opinion contest.
Arvo is my third favorite character (and Nick my second), with Ben being my number one pick, and I liked them more than Clementine in season 1.
I wanted to bring Carver with the group in S2 E3, I'm fine if Nuke happened, I like Arvo, Ben, and Nick a lot myself, I think Omid was pretty useless, and I like pretty much every character.
Let's have an unpopular opinion contest.
Arvo is my third favorite character (and Nick my second), with Ben being my number one pick, and I liked them more than Clementine in season 1.
Now,in general one complaint I hear very often is that "Season 2 lacks a story"
I actually haven't heard that at all. What I have heard was that the story was shit. In any case, Walking Dead has never had a great plot in any of its incarnations. It has just never happened. However, season 1 gets the closest because the real story is the redemption of a man who was condemned by the world before the apocalypse through caring for a little girl. It begins and it comes to an end, barring the cliffhanger in "No Time Left". The actual storylines themselves only serve to fuel this character dynamic. Season 2 doesn't have a contained main storyline like this, and that's not ostensibly a bad thing, because the original comics don't either. But that's just one more reason why season 1 is so lauded as being the best material of the franchise of the Walking Dead.
Another big complaint is the 16 month gap. The reason people complain about this, where it is assumed jack shit happened, and then are perfectly fine with the 3 month gap, where the crew went to an air force base, and got Mark who then got incapacitated halfway through the episode, and then doesn't show up again until he dies at the end I have no idea.
You kind of answered your own confusion, but you probably don't realize it. See, the three month gap did not have any drastic changes on the characters and there is no mystery behind it because it is explained just fine what happened through dialogue.
The sixteen month gap, on the other hand, drastically changes our pre-established main character, has hints of the death of Christa's baby but never explains how and never brings it up even when it would have made perfect sense to do it narratively (when Rebecca has her baby which was used as a vehicle to give Kenny more development instead of Clementine, our main fucking character), and very much reduces the importance of Christa by barely focusing on her time with Clementine despite having taken care of her longer than anyone else post-ZA and then cutting her out of the story.
Mark was a plot device designed to bring about the big twist of episode 2, and even then, we still got to know him and got quite a bit of time with him. Certainly more time than we got with Christa in season 2, which is just damned insulting. Christa, however, was a fairly big character in the final two episodes of season 1 and one of the "official" new caretakers for Clementine after Lee, and she is given nothing before being cut out of the story. If you don't see the obvious difference here, I don't know what to tell you.
So, then we have the introduction of the cabin group, which I feel were really interesting, and the only ones with this "Wasted potential" Were Carlos and Sarah. Everyone else got their time to shine, and we, or at least I, got to feel really attached to all of them. Even when Kenny showed up, I cared about him and everyone else equally.
No, Alvin was also wasted potential, and no, that one scene where he kills one of Carver's flunkies most certainly does not count. It's a sad scene and a well done death, mind you, but it does not make up for building him up to be an integral part of the drama surrounding Carver and Rebecca, and then making him determinant and keeping him off-screen for almost the entirety of episode 3. Lazy, lazy handling of his character and role.
Luke was wasted too, because they made it obvious they were trying to build up this choice between him and Kenny and they kept pushing that whole idea at us. Then they either decided to sacrifice the only consistent thing they had going for the sake of shock, or they decided to stop willingly wasting our time with a storyline that was never meant to go anywhere. Either way, it was a big waste of time and potential for Luke.
Nick's big moment involves giving some development to a character who dies five minutes later and then does nothing until he dies off-screen. Nick definitely got more development than anyone else in the cabin group, but it was all a bunch of set up with little to no payoff.
And the failure of the writing of Carlos' and Sarah's characters cannot be overstated. Just fucking awful all around.
People also want to go on about how Carver is just a generic tyrant, and loses that malicious, evil genius side of him.
In truth, Carver was always a generic tyrant, in both episodes he was in. The thing is, people were really interested in him in episode 2 because we hadn't gotten the full story yet. He was shrouded in mystery, and we were all eager to see what would unfold when we went to his place. Turns out, it was jack shit as far as his character goes. He remained a mysterious character, which isn't bad in itself (like I said, it worked in episode 2), but when you kill a character who hasn't been explained properly and then never bring his backstory and mystery to light so that we can understand him better, it shines a big bright spotlight on how little there actually was to his character.
Let me put it this way. We learned absolutely everything we needed to know about the Stranger in a single cutscene. Carver got two episodes, and somehow had less complexity than the fucking Stranger, who was meant to be... a STRANGER and nothing more. Seriously, how the hell do you even do that?
Why does Clementine have to do all of the work? Because nobody else is in any condition to do so. Rebecca's pregnant, Carlos has his fingers broken, Luke's MIA at that point, Sarah freaks out at the smallest things, Alvin;s in the middle of being tortured, Jane doesn't give a shit what happens either way, Kenny is super protective of Sarita and probably wouldn't want her to get hurt, and it's much easier for a little girl to hide and sneak around then Kenny, Mike and Nick
I can agree with the stealth parts of episode three since Clem was the only one light enough to be lifted out of the yard, but a lot of the complaints also come from all the other times that it happens when there is no excuse for it besides the adult characters being dumbasses to make Clem look good. Also, Jane most certainly gave a shit what happened; she wanted out of that place as much as anyone else. She may not have cared about anyone all that much at the time, but if it would help her get out, she'd take what chances she had.
Also, the idea that Kenny is protective of Sarita, but thinks Clementine can totally handle getting the radio to Luke when someone else most certainly could have done it is just silly, especially when he apparently thinks she shouldn't have to do stuff like clean his eye, and god forbid she try a dose of alcohol because she's just a little girl. But being the only one to sneak around a fortress run by a psychopath and full of bad people (or at least we have to assume, since we were never given a chance to understand Carver's community)? Totally cool.
Next time you complain about Clementine kicking a door open, remember that two years earlier, she managed to pull an unconscious, full grown man, into a jewelry store, without any walkers noticing.
Oh, I agree, both are idiotic. The difference, of course, as someone else mentioned, is that season 1 is far stronger from a narrative standpoint that it's much easier to overlook silly bits like this. That doesn't make it any less ridiculous, mind you, but whereas Clem kicking in the door was symptomatic of a continued problem all throughout season 2, Clem pulling Lee into the store was only one of a few silly bits in the finale of season 1, which by the way, I hold as the weakest episode of the first season, because some of the silly crap that permeates season 2 got it's start in "No Time Left".
Episodes prior to "No Time Left" had silly bits as well, but maintained a consistent narrative focus, which is what you really need to make a story work, and that's really what this all comes down to. Silly scenes that come about as a result of the gameplay tend to just be nitpicks no matter how much we focus on them. The writing is what matters. Season 1 was solid to brilliant throughout. Season 2 was inconsistent and full of holes, and the few moments of greatness it does have are just painful to think about because you can only appreciate them for what they could have been in a season with stronger writing.
We have people saying "Why should I care about A.J.?" Well, he's your beacon of hope. In this world of death, and horrible people, and bandits, and paranoia, you have a baby, as innocent as you can get. You have a sign of hope for the future, that perhaps all is not lost, who wouldn't want to protect it?
Good ol' Jaded x Gamer went into detail into why A.J. is such a shallow plot device once upon a time, and the hypocrisy some people have when they protect A.J. at all costs, but denigrate Sarah who is also innocent as can be and part of the younger generation, and so a "beacon of hope" in her own right. It's because Sarah is at least treated like a human being. Hey, I'll give the writers that much; they certainly showed how fucking hard it is for some people to deal with problems that aren't their fault. It's just too bad the writers for Amid The Ruins didn't know how to conclude such an arc properly.
But I digress. Getting back to the point... A.J. is not at all treated like a person; like a real baby. He never cries in the midst of danger or requires endless amounts of care and attention, the kinds of things that would make him out to be the absolute biggest liability in this world of pure survival, way more so than even Sarah. And yet very few people hold that belief, and those that do are called horrible people. But everyone seems ready to pull the "it's the apocalypse now!" bullshit card to explain why Sarah wasn't cut out for this world.
So if they wanted us to learn a little something about not giving up on our beacon of hope and fighting for him no matter what, then they should have incorporated danger surrounding him because of his constant crying and needs the way they portrayed Sarah as being an issue to deal with in the midst of danger, but they didn't. So no, I refuse to be swayed into caring about a plot device that Telltale deemed a "beacon of hope", purely because he was connected to Kenny, like every other fucking thing that matters in the second season, unlike Sarah, who was treated like a hopeless case to make Clementine look better and like more of a survivor. Fuck that noise.
Let's have an unpopular opinion contest.
Arvo is my third favorite character (and Nick my second), with Ben being my number one pick, and I liked them more than Clementine in season 1.
Let's have an unpopular opinion contest.
Arvo is my third favorite character (and Nick my second), with Ben being my number one pick, and I liked them more than Clementine in season 1.
Well Mike is more middle of the road than characters like Bonnie and Arvo. While the majority would probably either kill or just not forgive Bonnie and Arvo, it's been about half and half with Mike, with some saying they would forgive him and others who would kill him, at least by my observations.
Sarah, who was treated like a hopeless case to make Clementine look better and like more of a survivor
It boggles my mind that there are people that are actually okay with them doing this
People are more interested in characters showing super-resilience to constant emotional trauma, but when one character actually has a reaction to it for once, everyone freaks out like "wow why can't they be like Clementine instead, what a pansy"
Sarah had a more human reaction to the death of her dad than pretty much any other character who lost someone did, excluding maybe 1 or 2 others.
Now,in general one complaint I hear very often is that "Season 2 lacks a story"
I actually haven't heard that at all. What I have he… moreard was that the story was shit. In any case, Walking Dead has never had a great plot in any of its incarnations. It has just never happened. However, season 1 gets the closest because the real story is the redemption of a man who was condemned by the world before the apocalypse through caring for a little girl. It begins and it comes to an end, barring the cliffhanger in "No Time Left". The actual storylines themselves only serve to fuel this character dynamic. Season 2 doesn't have a contained main storyline like this, and that's not ostensibly a bad thing, because the original comics don't either. But that's just one more reason why season 1 is so lauded as being the best material of the franchise of the Walking Dead.
Another big complaint is the 16 month gap. The reason people complain about thi… [view original content]
It's projection. Although I'm also quite embittered by the fact that the developers themselves lacked any kind of empathy for their own character, while simultaneously affording their beloved Kenny far more leeway.
Sarah, who was treated like a hopeless case to make Clementine look better and like more of a survivor
It boggles my mind that there… more are people that are actually okay with them doing this
People are more interested in characters showing super-resilience to constant emotional trauma, but when one character actually has a reaction to it for once, everyone freaks out like "wow why can't they be like Clementine instead, what a pansy"
Sarah had a more human reaction to the death of her dad than pretty much any other character who lost someone did, excluding maybe 1 or 2 others.
It's projection. Although I'm also quite embittered by the fact that the developers themselves lacked any kind of empathy for their own character, while simultaneously affording their beloved Kenny far more leeway.
I disagree, bringing Kenny back to become the "bad guy" was a bad move, it ruined the storyline for S2 IMO, it made Kenny a evil dude, where i remember him as a guy who did the right thing at S1, even if you didn't like him you had to give him that,
You brought him up. His death was extremely wasted, it felt cheap and pointless. Now its a joke, like how Kenny survived in the alleyway, an… mored their explanation was what again? - Crazygeorge
I can relate to how you feel about Omid's death- which is why it was brilliant move by Telltale in some respects. Killing him off felt like a waste, and immediately brought about that bleak, hopeless feeling that lingers all the way through the series. Kenny's survival was pretty far fetching I must admit, but again it was actually a very good move- no one really expected the secondary character from the first series to return, as he didn't seem to matter that much. It was a good move, and unexpected- I thought Lilly would return, but rather than going down that easy route they decided to bring back a really in depth character and, although as I said his return was a bit of a coincidence, it was well timed and didn't feel very unrealistic despite the fact that, in theory, it was.
I agree with you there. By what I've seen, the people that were most involved with Season 2 were Nick Breckon and Pierre Shorette. Eric Stirpe never seemed to be in the loop and was only a designer, and J.T. Petty does not work at Telltale and was definitely not involved in Season 2 prior to that episode. So yeah, those two writers definitely didn't seem to care for the characters, especially Sarah and Nick, so I question why Telltale had them write an episode.
I really think the only people that really lacked empathy for Sarah were the people that wrote Amid the Ruins
Then again, I don't think t… morehose writers really cared about any of the characters
I think Sarah was handled alright prior to that godforsaken episode
I think the season started off fine, then began to take a dive at the midpoint, hit its low point at episode 4, leaving episode 5 to make an attempt to salvage what it could.
Eh i agree with you pretty much, other than i felt Episode 1, felt like a adventure in babysitting. What else can go wrong, Clementine fall into a pit of cobras with lazes attached to their heads.
Was the whole season really that bad, or was it specific episodes (namely 3 and 4 for most people) that were the bad apples that soured the … morebatch?
It seems like everyone claims the whole of Season 2 is bad, yet I barely see people criticize that much from the first two episodes nowadays, outside of Omid's death, the time skip, and Kenny's return, really. The majority of all criticism seems to be aimed at episodes 3 and 4 in particular, citing them being the ones where most characters experienced shifts in personality, the story seemingly took a sudden turn in direction, characters started receiving little to no development at all, Kenny and Jane hogged the episodes respectively, when choices began lose impact to the point where you save a character only to have them die literally 30 minutes later (Sarah), and where the cheap deaths and shock value moments became readily apparent. I think the season started off fine, then began to take a di… [view original content]
Sarah got abused by the writers man. That death scream when she calls out for Clementine made me feel really bad, Clementine was taking it better than i was.
I really think the only people that really lacked empathy for Sarah were the people that wrote Amid the Ruins
Then again, I don't think t… morehose writers really cared about any of the characters
I think Sarah was handled alright prior to that godforsaken episode
This is one of the many ressons I run around here screamjng S2 was badly writen and very lazy!
I mean come on! How long did it take for the writers to think up... "hey lets bring kenny back and send him nuts.......... hey this could even be the whole storyline from ep3 onwards .... no need for any character development... just send him bonkers leading to a finale! Yeaa ... right hows about lunch guys"
For a TT title it was discussing and saddening.... plus we lost one of the best characters in computer game storytelling in the worst possible way.... very sad...... very sad..
but again it was actually a very good move
I disagree, bringing Kenny back to become the "bad guy" was a bad move, it ruined the sto… moreryline for S2 IMO, it made Kenny a evil dude, where i remember him as a guy who did the right thing at S1, even if you didn't like him you had to give him that,
But now he is evil dude.
We have people saying "Why should I care about A.J.?" Well, he's your beacon of hope. In this world of death, and horrible people, and bandits, and paranoia, you have a baby, as innocent as you can get. You have a sign of hope for the future, that perhaps all is not lost, who wouldn't want to protect it?
Makes sense if you think about it:
Jane mentioned she didn't liked babies.
She asked what Rebecca was gonna do with "it".
She called AJ "it" even after he was born.
Clementine has the opportunity to use this dialogue where she will say: "Take it" which follows Jane's footsteps furthermore.
Jane is cold as ice, a loner / survivalist, gives up on people that are too weak or just "helpless", has no hope.
Kenny was left behind, he never gave up though. AJ gave him hope. AJ gave him
a sign of hope for the future, that perhaps all is not lost,
Kenny is not a bad man when you're comparing to Jane's personality. The only reason for you to pick Jane over Kenny should've been:
Kenny tried to murder Jane and you chose Jane because you didn't wanted to be alone
Kenny was unstable and you thought it would've been better to travel with a survivalist (while this is still debatable, Jane has her flaws to)
I might've "resurrected" this Kenny vs. Jane this, but I don't really care... this is just for the people to think about.. just ignore it if you don't wan't to be involved.
This is one of the many ressons I run around here screamjng S2 was badly writen and very lazy!
Kenny's Legacy is ruined. It would of been far much better if he would of never came back, at least we would of remembered him as a hero, for either saving Ben/Christa, now the last thing i remember is Kenny doing was beating a teenager to death for no reason, I understand why Bonnie/Mike/Arvo left. I really do.
Kenny was out of his mind.
For a TT title it was discussing and saddening.... plus we lost one of the best characters in computer game storytelling in the worst possible way.... very sad...... very sad..
Kenny's legacy will now be known as the insane person who has killed a woman, under falsehood or a rabid crazy person that had to be shot by Clementine like a rabid dog.
As someone with PTSD, we don't act like this at all. Only about 50% of all PTSD cases have any violence. The rest of us hit that bottle, and live a life of self abuse.
As someone with PTSD, it makes me look like I'm crazy psychopath.. I never been violent towards anyone,
This is one of the many ressons I run around here screamjng S2 was badly writen and very lazy!
I mean come on! How long did it take for t… morehe writers to think up... "hey lets bring kenny back and send him nuts.......... hey this could even be the whole storyline from ep3 onwards .... no need for any character development... just send him bonkers leading to a finale! Yeaa ... right hows about lunch guys"
For a TT title it was discussing and saddening.... plus we lost one of the best characters in computer game storytelling in the worst possible way.... very sad...... very sad..
Season 2 reminded me of Mass Effect 3 if it was a new game I would probably say its pretty good with a few flaws 7,5/10 but as its a sequel to such an awesome game as TWD season 1 I just can't help to feel bad about it, it had so much wasted potential. Im sorry but saying that TWD season 2 is just as good as season 1 is just crazy, thats like saying that about the tv show, its just objectively not true, season 1 had longer episodes, more humor, you actually interact with most of the characters you started with right trough the end and they have a real development, that is objectively not true in season 2.
Yeah, Sarah was handled decently in the episodes written by Shorette and Breckon. I knew her death was inevitable, but the manner in which it happened, the way it was brushed off, and the callous attitude of Omid The Ruins' developers certainly didn't make them look very good.
I really think the only people that really lacked empathy for Sarah were the people that wrote Amid the Ruins
Then again, I don't think t… morehose writers really cared about any of the characters
I think Sarah was handled alright prior to that godforsaken episode
With as much hate as she got, i guess. I liked her, i would of been more excited for S3 if Sarah would of been alive for S3, instead of the plot device baby. I think we should rename Season 2: Kenny Khronicles.
Yeah, Sarah was handled decently in the episodes written by Shorette and Breckon. I knew her death was inevitable, but the manner in which … moreit happened, the way it was brushed off, and the callous attitude of Omid The Ruins' developers certainly didn't make them look very good.
Comments
Yeah, but Clem_is_awesome isn't one of those people. He/she is a hater and that's basically all they do.
I can't say that ALL of season 2 is on par with season 1 (though there are some bits in season 2 that I PREFER to season 1), but your point on Season 2 Episode 3 being he best episode so far is perfect.
My main problem is that it all feels very rushed, and at times there's a lack of choice. For example, I hated Bonnie but she escaped with me and the group and nothing was said about the fact she betrayed us to Carver in the first place. I would've liked it if you could have interacted with all of the 400 days characters in some way, and the way you treated them could influence who went with you (but that's a discussion for another time...)
Also, season 2 loses its focus: it was built up to be all about choosing Clem's character and so on so forth, but in the end your interactions with other characters really made no difference, bar those with Kenny and Jane. The end of season 2 left me confused over what type of person Clem was now- the person I tried to make her, or the person Telltale just thought it would be easier to make her.
Finally, some characters got killed off far too quickly/easily. Carver is my prime example (see my discussion on Carver for that), but Luke should have survived as well. He was a deeper character than Jane and would create more tension as he practically opposed Kenny on every point.
You brought him up. His death was extremely wasted, it felt cheap and pointless. Now its a joke, like how Kenny survived in the alleyway, and their explanation was what again? - Crazygeorge
I can relate to how you feel about Omid's death- which is why it was brilliant move by Telltale in some respects. Killing him off felt like a waste, and immediately brought about that bleak, hopeless feeling that lingers all the way through the series. Kenny's survival was pretty far fetching I must admit, but again it was actually a very good move- no one really expected the secondary character from the first series to return, as he didn't seem to matter that much. It was a good move, and unexpected- I thought Lilly would return, but rather than going down that easy route they decided to bring back a really in depth character and, although as I said his return was a bit of a coincidence, it was well timed and didn't feel very unrealistic despite the fact that, in theory, it was.
Season 2 was better, and Amid The Ruins was the best episode. My personal unpopular opinion is bigger then yours. No lie.
[removed]
Opinion = Trolling
THAT MAKES SENSE DURHURHURHUR
I completely agree, finally someone who understands me. Season 2 was just as good as season one, making them both beyond perfect.
Look in a mirror.
Here here. Worst episode of the series.
That is exactly why im asking
Good point. Maybe we are all trolling each other...
LoaderBot APPROVES
I legitimately can't stand Season 2, I'm sorry but it's literally one of the most, if not THE MOST, disappointing sequel I have ever played, now it's not terrible, but there were so many opportunities for better storytelling, the wasted 400 days cast, the forgettable supporting characters, Kenny...ugh, Clementine losing her interesting child like traits in favor for something boring and generic.
I don't think anyone is going to convince me that S2 lived up to the first season, and for now after playing S2, I really just would rather think that S2 never happened and that S1 was its own self contained story, sorry guys.
Um, wasn't Wolf Among Us actually 1 hour?
Let's have an unpopular opinion contest.
Arvo is my third favorite character (and Nick my second), with Ben being my number one pick, and I liked them more than Clementine in season 1.
I have to say that more people disliked Amid The Ruins then people who hate those characters. I think Raging still has the more unpopular opinion :P
I don't blame you. Hmm..
I wanted to bring Carver with the group in S2 E3, I'm fine if Nuke happened, I like Arvo, Ben, and Nick a lot myself, I think Omid was pretty useless, and I like pretty much every character.
(Maybe make a thread for this? :P)
I actually haven't heard that at all. What I have heard was that the story was shit. In any case, Walking Dead has never had a great plot in any of its incarnations. It has just never happened. However, season 1 gets the closest because the real story is the redemption of a man who was condemned by the world before the apocalypse through caring for a little girl. It begins and it comes to an end, barring the cliffhanger in "No Time Left". The actual storylines themselves only serve to fuel this character dynamic. Season 2 doesn't have a contained main storyline like this, and that's not ostensibly a bad thing, because the original comics don't either. But that's just one more reason why season 1 is so lauded as being the best material of the franchise of the Walking Dead.
You kind of answered your own confusion, but you probably don't realize it. See, the three month gap did not have any drastic changes on the characters and there is no mystery behind it because it is explained just fine what happened through dialogue.
The sixteen month gap, on the other hand, drastically changes our pre-established main character, has hints of the death of Christa's baby but never explains how and never brings it up even when it would have made perfect sense to do it narratively (when Rebecca has her baby which was used as a vehicle to give Kenny more development instead of Clementine, our main fucking character), and very much reduces the importance of Christa by barely focusing on her time with Clementine despite having taken care of her longer than anyone else post-ZA and then cutting her out of the story.
Mark was a plot device designed to bring about the big twist of episode 2, and even then, we still got to know him and got quite a bit of time with him. Certainly more time than we got with Christa in season 2, which is just damned insulting. Christa, however, was a fairly big character in the final two episodes of season 1 and one of the "official" new caretakers for Clementine after Lee, and she is given nothing before being cut out of the story. If you don't see the obvious difference here, I don't know what to tell you.
No, Alvin was also wasted potential, and no, that one scene where he kills one of Carver's flunkies most certainly does not count. It's a sad scene and a well done death, mind you, but it does not make up for building him up to be an integral part of the drama surrounding Carver and Rebecca, and then making him determinant and keeping him off-screen for almost the entirety of episode 3. Lazy, lazy handling of his character and role.
Luke was wasted too, because they made it obvious they were trying to build up this choice between him and Kenny and they kept pushing that whole idea at us. Then they either decided to sacrifice the only consistent thing they had going for the sake of shock, or they decided to stop willingly wasting our time with a storyline that was never meant to go anywhere. Either way, it was a big waste of time and potential for Luke.
Nick's big moment involves giving some development to a character who dies five minutes later and then does nothing until he dies off-screen. Nick definitely got more development than anyone else in the cabin group, but it was all a bunch of set up with little to no payoff.
And the failure of the writing of Carlos' and Sarah's characters cannot be overstated. Just fucking awful all around.
In truth, Carver was always a generic tyrant, in both episodes he was in. The thing is, people were really interested in him in episode 2 because we hadn't gotten the full story yet. He was shrouded in mystery, and we were all eager to see what would unfold when we went to his place. Turns out, it was jack shit as far as his character goes. He remained a mysterious character, which isn't bad in itself (like I said, it worked in episode 2), but when you kill a character who hasn't been explained properly and then never bring his backstory and mystery to light so that we can understand him better, it shines a big bright spotlight on how little there actually was to his character.
Let me put it this way. We learned absolutely everything we needed to know about the Stranger in a single cutscene. Carver got two episodes, and somehow had less complexity than the fucking Stranger, who was meant to be... a STRANGER and nothing more. Seriously, how the hell do you even do that?
I can agree with the stealth parts of episode three since Clem was the only one light enough to be lifted out of the yard, but a lot of the complaints also come from all the other times that it happens when there is no excuse for it besides the adult characters being dumbasses to make Clem look good. Also, Jane most certainly gave a shit what happened; she wanted out of that place as much as anyone else. She may not have cared about anyone all that much at the time, but if it would help her get out, she'd take what chances she had.
Also, the idea that Kenny is protective of Sarita, but thinks Clementine can totally handle getting the radio to Luke when someone else most certainly could have done it is just silly, especially when he apparently thinks she shouldn't have to do stuff like clean his eye, and god forbid she try a dose of alcohol because she's just a little girl. But being the only one to sneak around a fortress run by a psychopath and full of bad people (or at least we have to assume, since we were never given a chance to understand Carver's community)? Totally cool.
Oh, I agree, both are idiotic. The difference, of course, as someone else mentioned, is that season 1 is far stronger from a narrative standpoint that it's much easier to overlook silly bits like this. That doesn't make it any less ridiculous, mind you, but whereas Clem kicking in the door was symptomatic of a continued problem all throughout season 2, Clem pulling Lee into the store was only one of a few silly bits in the finale of season 1, which by the way, I hold as the weakest episode of the first season, because some of the silly crap that permeates season 2 got it's start in "No Time Left".
Episodes prior to "No Time Left" had silly bits as well, but maintained a consistent narrative focus, which is what you really need to make a story work, and that's really what this all comes down to. Silly scenes that come about as a result of the gameplay tend to just be nitpicks no matter how much we focus on them. The writing is what matters. Season 1 was solid to brilliant throughout. Season 2 was inconsistent and full of holes, and the few moments of greatness it does have are just painful to think about because you can only appreciate them for what they could have been in a season with stronger writing.
Good ol' Jaded x Gamer went into detail into why A.J. is such a shallow plot device once upon a time, and the hypocrisy some people have when they protect A.J. at all costs, but denigrate Sarah who is also innocent as can be and part of the younger generation, and so a "beacon of hope" in her own right. It's because Sarah is at least treated like a human being. Hey, I'll give the writers that much; they certainly showed how fucking hard it is for some people to deal with problems that aren't their fault. It's just too bad the writers for Amid The Ruins didn't know how to conclude such an arc properly.
But I digress. Getting back to the point... A.J. is not at all treated like a person; like a real baby. He never cries in the midst of danger or requires endless amounts of care and attention, the kinds of things that would make him out to be the absolute biggest liability in this world of pure survival, way more so than even Sarah. And yet very few people hold that belief, and those that do are called horrible people. But everyone seems ready to pull the "it's the apocalypse now!" bullshit card to explain why Sarah wasn't cut out for this world.
So if they wanted us to learn a little something about not giving up on our beacon of hope and fighting for him no matter what, then they should have incorporated danger surrounding him because of his constant crying and needs the way they portrayed Sarah as being an issue to deal with in the midst of danger, but they didn't. So no, I refuse to be swayed into caring about a plot device that Telltale deemed a "beacon of hope", purely because he was connected to Kenny, like every other fucking thing that matters in the second season, unlike Sarah, who was treated like a hopeless case to make Clementine look better and like more of a survivor. Fuck that noise.
Yeah me too buddy. We're the minority here, but offline that's how most of my friends feel.
He also calls people names when they disagree with him.
Oh, and he also hates Jane and loves Kenny, and thinks that anybody that doesn't share "that" view also deserves to be called names.
Alright, I'm in:
In Harms Way was one of the best episodes of the series.
The last episode was, but when I played, the other episodes were about the same length as TWD S2 episodes.
I still like Mike
Well Mike is more middle of the road than characters like Bonnie and Arvo. While the majority would probably either kill or just not forgive Bonnie and Arvo, it's been about half and half with Mike, with some saying they would forgive him and others who would kill him, at least by my observations.
It boggles my mind that there are people that are actually okay with them doing this
People are more interested in characters showing super-resilience to constant emotional trauma, but when one character actually has a reaction to it for once, everyone freaks out like "wow why can't they be like Clementine instead, what a pansy"
Sarah had a more human reaction to the death of her dad than pretty much any other character who lost someone did, excluding maybe 1 or 2 others.
It's projection. Although I'm also quite embittered by the fact that the developers themselves lacked any kind of empathy for their own character, while simultaneously affording their beloved Kenny far more leeway.
I really think the only people that really lacked empathy for Sarah were the people that wrote Amid the Ruins
Then again, I don't think those writers really cared about any of the characters
I think Sarah was handled alright prior to that godforsaken episode
I disagree, bringing Kenny back to become the "bad guy" was a bad move, it ruined the storyline for S2 IMO, it made Kenny a evil dude, where i remember him as a guy who did the right thing at S1, even if you didn't like him you had to give him that,
But now he is evil dude.
I agree with you there. By what I've seen, the people that were most involved with Season 2 were Nick Breckon and Pierre Shorette. Eric Stirpe never seemed to be in the loop and was only a designer, and J.T. Petty does not work at Telltale and was definitely not involved in Season 2 prior to that episode. So yeah, those two writers definitely didn't seem to care for the characters, especially Sarah and Nick, so I question why Telltale had them write an episode.
Eh i agree with you pretty much, other than i felt Episode 1, felt like a adventure in babysitting. What else can go wrong, Clementine fall into a pit of cobras with lazes attached to their heads.
Sarah got abused by the writers man. That death scream when she calls out for Clementine made me feel really bad, Clementine was taking it better than i was.
I enjoyed Season 2 more than Season 1 so...yeah.
This is one of the many ressons I run around here screamjng S2 was badly writen and very lazy!
I mean come on! How long did it take for the writers to think up... "hey lets bring kenny back and send him nuts.......... hey this could even be the whole storyline from ep3 onwards .... no need for any character development... just send him bonkers leading to a finale! Yeaa ... right hows about lunch guys"
For a TT title it was discussing and saddening.... plus we lost one of the best characters in computer game storytelling in the worst possible way.... very sad...... very sad..
He tortured him because he killed 'George', he may have asked him some questions and Alvin probably disrespected his authority in the meanwhile.
Loader-bot for S3 protagonist!
Makes sense if you think about it:
Kenny was left behind, he never gave up though. AJ gave him hope. AJ gave him
Kenny is not a bad man when you're comparing to Jane's personality. The only reason for you to pick Jane over Kenny should've been:
I might've "resurrected" this Kenny vs. Jane this, but I don't really care... this is just for the people to think about.. just ignore it if you don't wan't to be involved.
Kenny's Legacy is ruined. It would of been far much better if he would of never came back, at least we would of remembered him as a hero, for either saving Ben/Christa, now the last thing i remember is Kenny doing was beating a teenager to death for no reason, I understand why Bonnie/Mike/Arvo left. I really do.
Kenny was out of his mind.
Kenny's legacy will now be known as the insane person who has killed a woman, under falsehood or a rabid crazy person that had to be shot by Clementine like a rabid dog.
As someone with PTSD, we don't act like this at all. Only about 50% of all PTSD cases have any violence. The rest of us hit that bottle, and live a life of self abuse.
As someone with PTSD, it makes me look like I'm crazy psychopath.. I never been violent towards anyone,
Crazy
Season 2 reminded me of Mass Effect 3 if it was a new game I would probably say its pretty good with a few flaws 7,5/10 but as its a sequel to such an awesome game as TWD season 1 I just can't help to feel bad about it, it had so much wasted potential. Im sorry but saying that TWD season 2 is just as good as season 1 is just crazy, thats like saying that about the tv show, its just objectively not true, season 1 had longer episodes, more humor, you actually interact with most of the characters you started with right trough the end and they have a real development, that is objectively not true in season 2.
Yeah, Sarah was handled decently in the episodes written by Shorette and Breckon. I knew her death was inevitable, but the manner in which it happened, the way it was brushed off, and the callous attitude of Omid The Ruins' developers certainly didn't make them look very good.
With as much hate as she got, i guess. I liked her, i would of been more excited for S3 if Sarah would of been alive for S3, instead of the plot device baby. I think we should rename Season 2: Kenny Khronicles.