And besides, she could've said that the baby was lost rather than just saying she was sorry or whatever. She wanted Kenny to think the worst, she wanted to tip him over the edge and lure him into that fight.
What the fuck?? Seriously. She never said she killed the baby. Why the fuck would she kill a baby!? It was the motherfucking psycho Kenny wh… moreo came up with the idea that Jane is slaughtering babies FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. Kenny NEEDED to be put out of his fucking misery, he was out of control and didn't listen to anyone, but his crazy old farted mind. So, good-effin' riddance.
She could've easily said the baby had got lost at any point, but she wanted Kenny to think the worst so he would lose it and go into a fight. She knew Kenny was broken by all the losses and she knew making him think he'd lost the baby would tip him over the edge. Yes, Kenny dropped all reason, but anyone who doesn't act in a similar way when they think someone has just killed a loved one (as Jane led him on to believe) then in reality they probably don't love that person at all and just think they do. His crime was that his care for the ones he loved blinded him from "reason", but how can you call just letting someone get away with murdering (as he thought she had murdered the baby) a baby reason?
She didn't pretend to kill the baby. It was made to look like an accident. But excuse me and let me drop all reasonable thought and kill you because the baby died by accident.
Lee would've jumped to the same conclusion as Kenny did, like he did with the Stranger. The Stranger had taken Clem from him and he then went and killed him; change the Season 2 situation to Lee thinking Jane has killed/lost Clementine and he'd react exactly the same, like he did with the Stranger.
And as for fistfights, you do realise that you can calm Kenny down on the train and that it's not determinant that you fight with him? I mean someone's just told him that his son's dead/dying and can still manage to calm them. Lee wouldn't have fought Kenny, he would've been able to calm him down. And with the baby thing, as I just pointed out he would've reacted in the same way.
Lee was able to keep him stable and some what in control because he was the Alfa male of the group. But if Lee dealt with season 2 Kenny. lee would of had several fist fights with Kenny that might of ended in kennys death!
Not only that but there was a scene where Kenny actually said he felt at peace when Carver was beating him to the point of almost killing him.
The man was suffering and missed his family. As heartbreaking as it was to let him go, he was a man with nothing to lose and I wouldn't have put it past him to eventually hurt Clem. Even though Jane is a new character, I trusted her more than Kenny in the end.
Also your disagreeing with Kenny if you think it wasn't his time to go. When Clems shoots him. He tells her she made the right choice. He wasn't the same man he used to be. If you watch him die. He seemed at peace with it.
When Clem was in trouble, Lee killed the Stranger. He didn't show any mercy then, when arguably the Stranger's argument actually made a bit of sense (I don't agree with the Stranger of course). That's a determinant decision.
When Kenny thinks that Jane has killed/lost the baby, he reacts just as Lee did. So yes, Lee would have done exactly the same thing, regardless of the decisions you made as Lee (as killing the Stranger is determinant).
Lee wouldn't have killed Jane! Jane was protecting Clem for her blind loyalty to Kenny. You think Lee would of approved of kennys actions. J… moreane was concerned about Clem's safety around an unstable group led by an unstable man. Lee would of came to blows with Kenny several times because he would want Clem thinking this isnt the way to handle things. Lee wouldn't want to think kennys actions were right and that would lead to Lee more likely to kill Kenny then Jane. Lee was more concerned about danger getting in between them not people that were looking out for her best interests. And Kenny was the danger that was costing Clems losing the group and almost get herself killed.
These are the type of people I like: people who realise that Jane and Kenny had good and bad things, but who realise how Jane exploited the fact that Kenny cared too much- exploited his humanity- in order to provoke a fight and kill him. I liked Jane initially, and their are things I don't like about Kenny (he can be a jerk sometimes and his compassion clouds his judgement (though how much of a flaw is that??))- but, having weighed up the arguments for both sides, it couldn't be clearer that Kenny is the better person of the two.
Both Kenny and Jane had their pros and cons. Jane needed companionship. Jane saw that her and Clem would make a good team- the team that her… more sister opted out of. Jane knew that clem might not leave with her and she didn't want to travel with Kenny anymore. Jane knew she couldn't just kill Kenny so she provoked an attack that she could justify with self defense. Both Kenny and Jane were ruthless, but Kenny is going to be up front about the things he doesn't like. It was so much easier to justify leaving Lily behind in light of similar circumstances. But Jane wanted a reason to get Kenny out of the picture and she exploited the intuition that Kenny would blow up. He didn't, however, attack Clementine.
Well if she is good why does she try to break his sanity by pretending the baby is dead? What sort of "good" person purposely tries to make … moresomeone insane, on the basis of your logic? Her actions are impossible to defend. Kenny wasn't intending to kill her at all, Jane planned it out. When Kenny kills Jane it's manslaughter- he didn't pre plan it or intend it, as he points out after the fight. Jane planned the whole thing in her head; that's murder.
You could say the same about other characters- Sarah is a nice, innocent friendly girl, so why doesn't Jane attract to her at all? Because Sarah is a liability, she's not used to this world and is more likely to get people killed then be of any use.
You want me to believe AJ was alive in the snowstorm? Because i thought he was dead too. Jane is cold she would go there, she left her sister to die whats stopping her from killing a baby?
What the fuck?? Seriously. She never said she killed the baby. Why the fuck would she kill a baby!? It was the motherfucking psycho Kenny wh… moreo came up with the idea that Jane is slaughtering babies FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. Kenny NEEDED to be put out of his fucking misery, he was out of control and didn't listen to anyone, but his crazy old farted mind. So, good-effin' riddance.
When Kenny started to push around Arvo and keep in mind this a disabled man who most likely was hanging with his group to survive. He just lost his sister and all Kenny can do was torment him. Kenny couldn't relate to his loss.
Why should he? The guy just tried to get the whole group killed. He just endangered those he cares about (eg; Clementine). And there's a big difference in relating to the loss of a friend (he understands Ben when he says what he's lost in Season 1) and the loss of someone who just had a hand in almost killing your entire group. How anyone can be sympathetic to that guy is ridiculous- he just tried to kill you and, as he proves later, he still tries to kill Clementine so he can't be trusted. It's all too easy to say "he can't relate to them" when you yourself have never experienced something like that. And quite frankly I couldn't care what Arvo lost; he tried to kill the group. You can sympathise with Arvo about his loss when he tried to kill the whole group, yet you can't sympathise with Kenny whose lost as much (if not more) who you claim is a danger to the group. That inconsistency shows you have a huge amount of bias against Kenny and aren't looking at this in a balanced, reasonable way.
Jane hiding the baby was to protect Clem from the monster who was in front of her and Clem couldn't see it because of her loyalty to Kenny
Kenny never planned to kill Jane, whilst Jane planned it all out in her head. Who's the monster there? The guy who reacts violently when he thinks a loved one has died or someone who plans to simulate the death of a loved one to lure Kenny into a fight in order to kill them? I wouldn't say Jane is a monster, but on the basis of those actions she's a far more scheming, cruel, manipulative person then Kenny is.
Now she didn't want to kill Kenny
Oh of course she did! She told Clementine to stay out of it, she calculated it all in her head, and I she didn't want a fight she could've mentioned the baby not being dead at any time but she chose not too. She didn't stop a fight escalating, she wanted it to happen. Your statement is completely flawed.
What if their wasn't people around the next time Clem makes a mistake or just makes a choice that Kenny doesn't approve of?
Well if you disagree with him whilst your alone in the car with him nothing happens, does it? Your making suggestions without having a single bit of proof to back up your statements. Again, this displays a radical bias that makes all of your arguments illogical.
I'm sorry Jane did what every good parent would do, get her away from the man who's on the brink of insanity to point of committing murder
Jane planned out hiding the baby in order to simulate a fight in which she would kill Kenny. It's planned, so it's murder. As Kenny says after the fight, he didn't intend it and he acted on the impulse of the moment. That's manslaughter. He never intended to kill Jane, Jane planned it all out meticulously.
But Jane ultimately showed she cares for others and wanted to take on the tough task of raising a child and Clem
The whole reason she even related to Clem in the first place is because she knows Clem doesn't need looking after- Clem can take care of herself, she doesn't need any care, and she's far more likely to increase Jane's chance of survival because Clem knows what she's doing. And choosing to take care of a baby is nothing remarkable or special. Only a pure monster like Carver would leave a baby to die. That's nothing remarkable at all. Kenny, who you dislike so much, was the man who originally took it on himself to look after the baby. As the scene in Arvo's cabin shows, Jane doesn't want to hold the baby and isn't interested in looking after it. She's a murderer and a cold, calculating person but she's not that much of a bad person to let a baby die. No one would. So the fact she takes on looking after a baby is a completely irrelevant point, anyone would do that.
Kenny has anger issues and he can react violently. But look at the causes of those reactions- someone getting his family killed, someone who smashed his head in, someone who tried to kill the entire group and someone who (he thought) had lost/killed a baby. His only crime was being too human and allowing his feelings to make him violent. That's why so many people love him- for his humanity. And he's broken by the losses he's suffered, of course, but he still doesn't give up hope. He HOPES about Wellington, he HOPES (though blindly) that Duck will be okay. Then look at Jane, who gives up on her sister and is willing to give up on Sarah as well. In that way, Jane is more broken than Kenny- she's allowed the apocalypse to break her hope, her compassion, whilst Kenny (whilst he has lost a lot more) maintains his hope. Jane was at Howe's longer then the cabin group and Kenny, and she hadn't tried escaping at all- she only interacted with the group when she saw they were useful to her, that they could get her out of Howe's. Kenny, right from the moment he got trapped, was trying to figure out how to escape- he never gives up hope, whilst Jane all too easily does.
Well that wasn't the way I interpreted the story. I think like attracts like. Clem was curios about Jane first looking over at her and wonde… morering who this bad ass chick is. Jane saw the opportunity to escape with a group and even if she's the loner type. Which is actually a personality trait in some people. Who wouldn't in their right mind cease the opportunity to escape.
Jane was only a loner because she couldn't stand to get close to anyone only to lose them. She pushed people away to protect herself from getting hurt. That whole story about her sister was that she was forcing her against her will to live. But in the end she had to let her go. Which is a very unselfish act. How many people would let their sister die because that's what they wanted. That would be tough for me to do! It was kind of the same scenario Clem was going through with Sarah. Also another example of Jane using pushing away people to protect her feelings was when Cle… [view original content]
Her sister wanted to die, even when Jane didn't allow that. She said herself that she dragged her across 4 states keeping her alive against her own will. When in the end she saw no hope in her wanting to be saved so she let her go. I don't get why people think Jane is so fucking heartless. If she was, she wouldn't come back at all, or get so worried and helping Clementine when she fell down in the lake. Jane also kept believing Clementine was the only one who could bring back Kenny from the abyss his mind fell into. In the end Clem couldn't and she wanted safety for Clem and AJ, so she acted as if the baby was gone/lost or killed by a walker, so that Clementine could see how far Kenny would go. People who bash on Jane should really open their fanboy Kenny eyes and see the truth about how things really are.
You want me to believe AJ was alive in the snowstorm? Because i thought he was dead too. Jane is cold she would go there, she left her sister to die whats stopping her from killing a baby?
Jane isn't heartless. But, unlike Kenny, she gives up. Kenny is always trying to keep going- even when they were captured by Carver he was planning to make an escape. Look at Jane, who sat around talking to no one and only got involved in the plan when she realised they had a good chance of making the plan work.
Then she gave up on her sister and on Sarah. Kenny, meanwhile, refused to give up on Duck (though his emotion clouded his judgement (but can you really call that a flaw??)), refused to give in when Carver had smashed his head in and hoped beyond hope that Wellington was real. And he said himself that he knew Wellington could be a bunch of nonsense, but he didn't give up. That's one of the many reasons why I prefer Kenny.
Kenny's mind, unless you completely blanked out everything he said in the entire series, was far from "in an abyss". He'd been brutalised by the apocalypse, but wasn't everyone?
And as far keeping Clementine safe, that's a terrible reading of her character. She knows Clementine can look after herself, that's the whole reason she bonds with Clem in the first place. Clem increases Jane's chances of survival and vice versa as they both know how to survive. She doesn't need to protect Clementine, she knows that, but Clem is useful to her as a companion who knows what their doing.
And as for wanting safety for AJ- yes, I really think putting him in a random car in freezing conditions is really keeping him safe. She even doesn't want to hold him in Arvo's cabin. Her taking care of AJ is nothing special- no one would abandon a baby to die. But Kenny is the first person to really try and look after AJ, whereas Jane has the responsibility forced upon her, and even then it's Clem who's really looking after AJ. That's another reason why I prefer Kenny to Jane, despite his flaws.
This is something I notice with all Jane fans: they point out all the things they say are "good" about Jane but never bring up a single con. Then you look at a lot of Kenny fans who (like myself) know he's flawed but see why he's also the better person. So I would suggest that Jane fans open their eyes. Tell me one con about Jane from your perspective, or is she just perfect in your eyes?
And I'd also ask that you calm the language down. Swearing just shows a lack of control, reasoning and a total lack of intelligence and education.
Her sister wanted to die, even when Jane didn't allow that. She said herself that she dragged her across 4 states keeping her alive against … moreher own will. When in the end she saw no hope in her wanting to be saved so she let her go. I don't get why people think Jane is so fucking heartless. If she was, she wouldn't come back at all, or get so worried and helping Clementine when she fell down in the lake. Jane also kept believing Clementine was the only one who could bring back Kenny from the abyss his mind fell into. In the end Clem couldn't and she wanted safety for Clem and AJ, so she acted as if the baby was gone/lost or killed by a walker, so that Clementine could see how far Kenny would go. People who bash on Jane should really open their fanboy Kenny eyes and see the truth about how things really are.
I don't even know where to begin with your post. You just proved my point. I'm going to reply to this one post and hopefully you are not going to make me do it again.
Jane isn't heartless. But, unlike Kenny, she gives up. Kenny is always trying to keep going- even when they were captured by Carver he was planning to make an escape. Look at Jane, who sat around talking to no one and only got involved in the plan when she realised they had a good chance of making the plan work.>
Jane gives up? Quite the opposite in fact. She was alone because she was on her own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone (Carver's group is evidence) Without Jane the escape plan probably wouldn't have ever worked. When they escape and Troy confronted them it was Jane who stopped him and it was Jane who gave the idea for the guts from the Walkers and it was Jane who came back for Rebecca and Clementine. For a person who never really had a good go with groups of people she did a lot during the escape. While Kenny could only judge Clementine for killing/not helping Sarita for probably 2 episodes. Did Jane blame Clementine AT ALL for Luke's death? No, she didn't. Because she is not a psycho like someone else is.
Then she gave up on her sister and on Sarah. Kenny, meanwhile, refused to give up on Duck (though his emotion clouded his judgement (but can you really call that a flaw??)), refused to give in when Carver had smashed his head in and hoped beyond hope that Wellington was real. And he said himself that he knew Wellington could be a bunch of nonsense, but he didn't give up. That's one of the many reasons why I prefer Kenny.>
Again, her sister gave up on this world and it affected Jane a lot. Like I said on my previous post, she kept her alive against her will as far as she could. I never really understood why the group didn't go back to Howe when there was so much provisions and the place was well kept for the most part and could be easily fixed after the zombie attack. While Wellington is one huge risk to take. You could freeze to death while going there and not really find anything + the baby will most likely get sick, die or worse in these conditions. Sure, less walker threat, but as we've seen in The Walking Dead humans are the biggest threat of them all and with little supplies up north humans will be twice as dangerous.
Kenny's mind, unless you completely blanked out everything he said in the entire series, was far from "in an abyss". He'd been brutalised by the apocalypse, but wasn't everyone? >
I don't know how you can't see how far gone he is. Sarita herself asks you if Kenny seems any different than he was before. He is gone. Period. He has good reason to lose his mind, sure, but that's how things are.
And as far keeping Clementine safe, that's a terrible reading of her character. She knows Clementine can look after herself, that's the whole reason she bonds with Clem in the first place. Clem increases Jane's chances of survival and vice versa as they both know how to survive. She doesn't need to protect Clementine, she knows that, but Clem is useful to her as a companion who knows what their doing.>
She knows? Did we play the same game? Because the one I played Jane teaches her so much when they escape Howe... She teaches her how to protect herself, how to sneak in and what weapons to use (the hatchet stuck in the head etc.) That's not the reason she bonds with Clem at all. She bonds with her because she feels her like a little sister. How does Clem increases Jane's chances of survival? She survived on her own all this time and she says herself that she has the best chance of survival if she is alone and not in a group and she gives Clem the advice of ditching the group if things get too hot (which they obviously do when Arvo show up)
And as for wanting safety for AJ- yes, I really think putting him in a random car in freezing conditions is really keeping him safe. She even doesn't want to hold him in Arvo's cabin. Her taking care of AJ is nothing special- no one would abandon a baby to die. But Kenny is the first person to really try and look after AJ, whereas Jane has the responsibility forced upon her, and even then it's Clem who's really looking after AJ. That's another reason why I prefer Kenny to Jane, despite his flaws.>
You think there is air conditioner inside the rest stop? It's just as freezing as the inside of the car. And it's not like AJ was there all night or anything like that. It was for about 5 minutes. What does holding AJ has to do with anything? I wouldn't hold a baby either. Does that make me a murderer or automatically a bad person?
This is something I notice with all Jane fans: they point out all the things they say are "good" about Jane but never bring up a single con. Then you look at a lot of Kenny fans who (like myself) know he's flawed but see why he's also the better person. So I would suggest that Jane fans open their eyes. Tell me one con about Jane from your perspective, or is she just perfect in your eyes?>
I will tell you what I didn't like about Jane.
For example: When she talked to Kenny in the car that he is crazy because of his family. But after that she tried to apologize if you remember, but Kenny interrupted her since they stopped and Kenny went out to look for gas for the car.
When they try to rescue Sarah and Luke and she wants Clementine to let Sarah go. Again, I'm not trying to defend her, but how I see it is that she did that because of what happened with her sister.
And I'd also ask that you calm the language down. Swearing just shows a lack of control, reasoning and a total lack of intelligence and education.>
Yeah, I got a little bit ahead of myself there for which I do apologize. I got really frustrated since people don't really bring any valid points on this matter and blindly defend.
Jane isn't heartless. But, unlike Kenny, she gives up. Kenny is always trying to keep going- even when they were captured by Carver he was p… morelanning to make an escape. Look at Jane, who sat around talking to no one and only got involved in the plan when she realised they had a good chance of making the plan work.
Then she gave up on her sister and on Sarah. Kenny, meanwhile, refused to give up on Duck (though his emotion clouded his judgement (but can you really call that a flaw??)), refused to give in when Carver had smashed his head in and hoped beyond hope that Wellington was real. And he said himself that he knew Wellington could be a bunch of nonsense, but he didn't give up. That's one of the many reasons why I prefer Kenny.
Kenny's mind, unless you completely blanked out everything he said in the entire series, was far from "in an abyss". He'd been brutalised by the apocalypse, but wasn't everyone?
And as far keeping Clementine … [view original content]
You could say the same about other characters- Sarah is a nice, innocent friendly girl, so why doesn't Jane attract to her at all? Because Sarah is a liability, she's not used to this world and is more likely to get people killed then be of any use.
What the fuck?? Seriously. She never said she killed the baby. Why the fuck would she kill a baby!? It was the motherfucking psycho Kenny wh… moreo came up with the idea that Jane is slaughtering babies FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. Kenny NEEDED to be put out of his fucking misery, he was out of control and didn't listen to anyone, but his crazy old farted mind. So, good-effin' riddance.
No they're calling it hearing that a baby suddenly died then accusing someone of killing it without any explanation or evidence and trying to viciously kill said person. So yes that is isanity.
No, that's not true. Some people don't like Kenny due to his attitude, some people hate him more as his character progresses. People aren't short tempered just because they don't like him. You could say the same thing about how people are short tempered because they don't like "Insert Character Here", but it doesn't make it 100% true.
Most people aren't going to love or hate a character for the exact same reason.
When there was the whole Kenny vs Luke confrontation I was more on Luke's side since he's my favourite character but I still liked Kenny, then in episode 4 when Kenny was really mad at Clementine and when him and Luke were arguing more I got annoyed with him. Although, episode 5 was redeeming for him (in my opinion) not when he was angry with Arvo but when he talked with Clem about how he missed his family and felt guilty about Alvin's death also when he apologised for how he reacted to Sarita's death I just felt quite sympathetic for him and all he lost. It also bugged me how much Jane, Mike and Bonnie would say 'he's loosing it... you have to snap him out of it' since Kenny knew that he was loosing it but he didn't know how to control himself. I think if Lee was there he would be alright since he even said in Season 1 Episode 5 that Lee and Clementine were the only family he had left, if he had them two there to help him then I think he would be alright, he obviously wouldn't be perfect but he would have been a lot better. Also as for the whole Kenny vs Jane thing I try to stay away from getting involved in it but I didn't agree with Jane hiding the baby from Kenny. Sure, she may not have directly said he was dead but she didn't say that he wasn't either which made Kenny, Clementine and the players think that AJ was dead. AJ was Kenny's last hope and honestly I think he wanted to look after AJ so he can raise him right and be there for him (unlike he was to Duck as he said when you were at the power station) and when he thought AJ was dead it made him snap and at first I thought it was wrong of him to want to kill Jane since I thought it was an accident but then when I found out he wasn't actually dead and Jane was doing that all for a reaction from Kenny I was mad at her and decided to let Kenny kill her (since I watched a playthrough of someone who killed Kenny but when I actually played it I let Kenny kill Jane) only because she told us not to get involved right? Also, I've noticed in the Jane ending she says to Clem afterwards 'I didn't think Kenny would go that far' but then when they are fighting Kenny says 'I'm gonna kill you!' and Jane replies with 'I knew you would!' ...So yeah, she's a liar :P
Ummm...Lee would've kicked Kenny's ass and be done with it.
He would have intervened as the two started fighting, and he would have saved Jane from Kenny, but without killing him. Lee was strong, he could just get over there and pull him away from her or maybe kick Kenny in the face or something.
But with Lee, neither Kenny nor Jane would have died. Which would have been preferable.
Sorry, but what loved one? He's been around the baby for less than a day. He can't possibly have any real bonding with it. It's just that Kenny lost too much already and the fear of losing someone he might get attached to in the future just flips his mind (again). If it was Clementine he would've hurt her too, I guarantee it. He is clearly insane at the end.
She could've easily said the baby had got lost at any point, but she wanted Kenny to think the worst so he would lose it and go into a fight… more. She knew Kenny was broken by all the losses and she knew making him think he'd lost the baby would tip him over the edge. Yes, Kenny dropped all reason, but anyone who doesn't act in a similar way when they think someone has just killed a loved one (as Jane led him on to believe) then in reality they probably don't love that person at all and just think they do. His crime was that his care for the ones he loved blinded him from "reason", but how can you call just letting someone get away with murdering (as he thought she had murdered the baby) a baby reason?
She was alone because she was on her own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone (Carver's group is evidence) Without Jane the escape plan probably wouldn't have ever worked. When they escape and Troy confronted them it was Jane who stopped him and it was Jane who gave the idea for the guts from the Walkers and it was Jane who came back for Rebecca and Clementine. For a person who never really had a good go with groups of people she did a lot during the escape. While Kenny could only judge Clementine for killing/not helping Sarita for probably 2 episodes. Did Jane blame Clementine AT ALL for Luke's death? No, she didn't. Because she is not a psycho like someone else is.
That all is completely irrelevant to the fact that she gives up whilst Kenny is a hopeful person. That just stating what she did do after Kenny had come up with the entire plan. And as for Luke's death, Jane's only known that guy about 4-5 days. Kenny's been with Sarita a lot longer and lost a lot more than Jane has. Of course he's going to be more upset. And yes, maybe Kenny does go over the top with Clem and is unreasonable but the majority of his anger is directed at the group talking about him behind his back (which they are).
When she talked to Kenny in the car that he is crazy because of his family. But after that she tried to apologize if you remember, but Kenny interrupted her since they stopped and Kenny went out to look for gas for the car.
That's an action, not an actual flaw in character. I can acknowledge that Kenny can be a jerk, that he loses control and is stubborn. But all Jane fans only see Jane as a 2D Character with no flaws in personality (actions aren't personality). And, Telltale being professionals, of course Jane has flaws! Characters being completely perfect is just bad story telling! And in fact, during that point you still tried to put a positive twist on your point by saying she tried to apologize. It just proves how Jane fans can only see one side of the argument, and how it's they who need to open their eyes.
You think there is air conditioner inside the rest stop? It's just as freezing as the inside of the car
Really? The rest stop had far more protection from the wind, and isn't made of freezing metal.
2.When they try to rescue Sarah and Luke and she wants Clementine to let Sarah go. Again, I'm not trying to defend her, but how I see it is that she did that because of what happened with her sister
This whole point just proves my argument about her being a person who gives up. She gave up on her sister, she wanted Clem to give up on Sarah
He is gone. Period. He has good reason to lose his mind, sure, but that's how things are
How can you say he has a good reason to lose his mind? People have lost a lot more than he has- Ben, for instance. And of course he isn't "gone"- he gets mad after Sarita's death because that's natural, and you can't tell me that being hopeful classes as insanity. Neither Jane or Kenny are insane, neither are perfect or utterly bad, but when you analyse the two character's personalities and actions its quite obvious that Kenny is overall the better human being.
Even Telltale has a bias towards Kenny, and they were the people who created these two characters! When Jane is killed or you leave Jane there's barely any fuss made, it's just over with. If Kenny dies or you leave Kenny they give him a big emotional speech or death. They created the characters, so if they favour one over the other it's quiet obvious who's the better character.
Does that make me a murderer or automatically a bad person?
It automatically shows that she's not a natural carer. She doesn't want that responsibility, mostly to do with the fact that she's scarred by her losses and doesn't want to get close to anyone. Compare that to Kenny, who copes by protecting and getting close to others.
Because the one I played Jane teaches her so much when they escape Howe... She teaches her how to protect herself
She teaches her a technique, not the basics like Lee did. Clem can already protect herself, she gives her a bit more info (basically like Christa did)
How does Clem increases Jane's chances of survival?
Basic survival 101: Two people who know what they're doing is a lot better than one
own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone
She tells Clem a story of a group she was with before she went alone, when they went back for someone who was bit. Through her loses she's shrank into herself and stopped trusting people; she's allowed the apocalypse to rob her of hope and trust. Maybe that's the sensible thing to do, maybe Kenny's hope is foolish sometimes, but in terms of whose the better human being I'd say it's the person that hopes.
So overall review: you still haven't named a single flaw in CHARACTER, not in actions which every character in TWD does; you obviously must believe that hoping automatically means insanity, otherwise your whole "Kenny is insane" argument would fall apart.
Yeah, I got a little bit ahead of myself there for which I do apologize. I got really frustrated since people don't really bring any valid points on this matter and blindly defend.
Yeah, I got a little bit ahead of myself there for which I do apologize. I got really frustrated since people don't really bring any valid points on this matter and blindly defend
I consistently debate with people who have no idea what they're talking about, and if you checked my posts you'd find that I don't need to reduce to swearing to get a point across
I don't even know where to begin with your post. You just proved my point. I'm going to reply to this one post and hopefully you are not goi… moreng to make me do it again.
Jane isn't heartless. But, unlike Kenny, she gives up. Kenny is always trying to keep going- even when they were captured by Carver he was planning to make an escape. Look at Jane, who sat around talking to no one and only got involved in the plan when she realised they had a good chance of making the plan work.>
Jane gives up? Quite the opposite in fact. She was alone because she was on her own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone (Carver's group is evidence) Without Jane the escape plan probably wouldn't have ever worked. When they escape and Troy confronted them it was Jane who stopped him and it was Jane who gave the idea for the guts from the Walkers and it was Jane who came back for Rebecca and Clementine. For a person … [view original content]
He assumes that Jane's the baby because of his distrustful view of Jane. But, the way I see it, whether you think someone killed a baby or lost a baby is irrelevant. Anyone would react in anger, if they had any humanity.
No they're calling it hearing that a baby suddenly died then accusing someone of killing it without any explanation or evidence and trying to viciously kill said person. So yes that is isanity.
He can't of bonded with it?? He just delivered the baby! And on your point about him hurting Clem, that's ridiculous- when he blames Clem for getting Sarita killed (which at the time was before the baby arrived) he does nothing, just gets mad.
Sorry, but what loved one? He's been around the baby for less than a day. He can't possibly have any real bonding with it. It's just that Ke… morenny lost too much already and the fear of losing someone he might get attached to in the future just flips his mind (again). If it was Clementine he would've hurt her too, I guarantee it. He is clearly insane at the end.
Acting out in anger, yes that's quite normal. What Kenny did was killing someone over what he thought was an accident which seriously is not the same thing as getting "angry" he went far pass that point already.
He assumes that Jane's the baby because of his distrustful view of Jane. But, the way I see it, whether you think someone killed a baby or lost a baby is irrelevant. Anyone would react in anger, if they had any humanity.
I totally agree.
These Kenny hate threads are so damn old, they're downright irritating.
I especially hate those Kenny vs Jane threads, those are especially not cool.
Even though Kenny is my favorite character in TWD, next to Lee, I gotta say: "I don't care if people love or hate Kenny anymore. He's just a videogame character. And I think there are plenty more important things to get whipped up about."
Actually Jane said she didn't kill AJ loud and clear, to which Kenny replied bullshit. I feel like I'm the only one who assumed that AJ wasn't actually dead :x really I don't see how killing someone out of anger is ever going to help anyone, if someone can't control themselves that makes them dangerous, I like Kenny but if he can't control himself he's bound to hurt people even if he tries not to. Jane might be a liar but at least she doesn't blame things on people or kill people I still like Kenny, I think Lee would've been able to brought him back but if you can't blame Kenny for wanting to kill Jane out of anger thinking without evidence that Jane killed AJ then how can you blame Jane for defending herself and trying to show Clementine how dangerous Kenny is when Kenny literally treats her like shit as soon as she rejoins with the group after she saved his life. Just saying
When there was the whole Kenny vs Luke confrontation I was more on Luke's side since he's my favourite character but I still liked Kenny, th… moreen in episode 4 when Kenny was really mad at Clementine and when him and Luke were arguing more I got annoyed with him. Although, episode 5 was redeeming for him (in my opinion) not when he was angry with Arvo but when he talked with Clem about how he missed his family and felt guilty about Alvin's death also when he apologised for how he reacted to Sarita's death I just felt quite sympathetic for him and all he lost. It also bugged me how much Jane, Mike and Bonnie would say 'he's loosing it... you have to snap him out of it' since Kenny knew that he was loosing it but he didn't know how to control himself. I think if Lee was there he would be alright since he even said in Season 1 Episode 5 that Lee and Clementine were the only family he had left, if he had them two there to help him then I think he wou… [view original content]
What I never understood is: why are Kenny supporters thinking Jane implied that she killed the baby? It was damn freezing out there. At such a young age and without proper food, AJ could have easily froze to death in Jane's arms, and that's what I assumed. She even said that it was an accident. Jane never tells she killed him with her own hands or left him and even if he died due to cold she couldn't have done anything to save him.
For me, Kenny had no valid reasons to think she killed AJ.
Why do you keep saying she killed the baby? All she said was that it was an accident meaning that she definitely did not kill the baby.
And by accident it doesn't mean she left him behind either. There was plenty around that could have killed AJ be it cold weather of walkers, so stop pinning the blame on Jane, okay.
Jane said; 'I didn't kill him it was an accident Kenny!' Implying that she did kill him but it was an accident, I never said I was mad at Jane for defending herself but her actions (of hiding the baby and implying that it had died) contributed to Kennys death. True he may have been going 'crazy' but to try and kill a man that has lost everything and pretend you have taken away one of his last pieces of hope, that's just wrong... Just saying.:P
Actually Jane said she didn't kill AJ loud and clear, to which Kenny replied bullshit. I feel like I'm the only one who assumed that AJ wasn… more't actually dead :x really I don't see how killing someone out of anger is ever going to help anyone, if someone can't control themselves that makes them dangerous, I like Kenny but if he can't control himself he's bound to hurt people even if he tries not to. Jane might be a liar but at least she doesn't blame things on people or kill people I still like Kenny, I think Lee would've been able to brought him back but if you can't blame Kenny for wanting to kill Jane out of anger thinking without evidence that Jane killed AJ then how can you blame Jane for defending herself and trying to show Clementine how dangerous Kenny is when Kenny literally treats her like shit as soon as she rejoins with the group after she saved his life. Just saying
First, in the final fight, Lee's action would've been up to the player, althrough it surely could be centered aroud using force, unless he was injured like Clem.
Anyway, even though Lee's personality was variable, he still had a few unchanged features. It's repeatedly shown that Kenny remembered him as a good man.
"I wish Lee was here. What would he do?"
As much as Kenny disliked and actively opposed some of Lee's ideas or lidership, Kenny becomes saddened at the reminder of his death, he reveals to Clementine that he wishes Lee was with them, showing that he is still deppresed because of his death and he would ask him for help if he could. If reunited, he would look back at all those situation when Lee was giving him good advices. I believe that Kenny would hear Lee out and count on his help, meaning Lee would be a person Kenny trusts and Lee could've changed, to some extent, the way Kenny acted.
I actually don't hate kenny. The whole time I was trying to have Clem calm him down because I new that the group was going to do something about him. But obvisioulty you can't really change the story line in this game. Kenny was suppose to tare the group apart and make it difficullt for Clem to choose between the new people in her life and her old friend.
I totally agree.
These Kenny hate threads are so damn old, they're downright irritating.
I especially hate those Kenny vs Jane threads, th… moreose are especially not cool.
Even though Kenny is my favorite character in TWD, next to Lee, I gotta say: "I don't care if people love or hate Kenny anymore. He's just a videogame character. And I think there are plenty more important things to get whipped up about."
Amen to that Deventh! Also am I the only one that see's Jane deliberatley showing Kenny that she didn't want to fight him by putting the knife back! After Kenny saw that he see's an opportunity to pounce on her. Also gentlemen. I know its the apocalypse and Jane can hold her own. But I would NEVER HIT A WOMEN OR FIGHT A WOMEN! I'm very surprised people are okay with that. Now if she came at me with the knife. I would try to disarm her and if it got to the point that I needed to kill her to survive. That's okay. But Kenny had Jane when it wasn't survival for him anymore. He could of stopped and said what am I doing. But he went to far and would of murdreded Jane if you didn't stop him. And Remember people Jane never confessed that she killed the baby. I interpretted her reaction to the baby as he didn't make it.
I don't even know where to begin with your post. You just proved my point. I'm going to reply to this one post and hopefully you are not goi… moreng to make me do it again.
Jane isn't heartless. But, unlike Kenny, she gives up. Kenny is always trying to keep going- even when they were captured by Carver he was planning to make an escape. Look at Jane, who sat around talking to no one and only got involved in the plan when she realised they had a good chance of making the plan work.>
Jane gives up? Quite the opposite in fact. She was alone because she was on her own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone (Carver's group is evidence) Without Jane the escape plan probably wouldn't have ever worked. When they escape and Troy confronted them it was Jane who stopped him and it was Jane who gave the idea for the guts from the Walkers and it was Jane who came back for Rebecca and Clementine. For a person … [view original content]
Great point AdamsBurnsRed! He finally felt at peace and then he mentions he wakes up to this! And that's with Saratia in his life. Even his new girlifrend wasn't enough for him to want to come back.
Not only that but there was a scene where Kenny actually said he felt at peace when Carver was beating him to the point of almost killing hi… morem.
The man was suffering and missed his family. As heartbreaking as it was to let him go, he was a man with nothing to lose and I wouldn't have put it past him to eventually hurt Clem. Even though Jane is a new character, I trusted her more than Kenny in the end.
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And besides, she could've said that the baby was lost rather than just saying she was sorry or whatever. She wanted Kenny to think the worst, she wanted to tip him over the edge and lure him into that fight.
She could've easily said the baby had got lost at any point, but she wanted Kenny to think the worst so he would lose it and go into a fight. She knew Kenny was broken by all the losses and she knew making him think he'd lost the baby would tip him over the edge. Yes, Kenny dropped all reason, but anyone who doesn't act in a similar way when they think someone has just killed a loved one (as Jane led him on to believe) then in reality they probably don't love that person at all and just think they do. His crime was that his care for the ones he loved blinded him from "reason", but how can you call just letting someone get away with murdering (as he thought she had murdered the baby) a baby reason?
Lee would've jumped to the same conclusion as Kenny did, like he did with the Stranger. The Stranger had taken Clem from him and he then went and killed him; change the Season 2 situation to Lee thinking Jane has killed/lost Clementine and he'd react exactly the same, like he did with the Stranger.
And as for fistfights, you do realise that you can calm Kenny down on the train and that it's not determinant that you fight with him? I mean someone's just told him that his son's dead/dying and can still manage to calm them. Lee wouldn't have fought Kenny, he would've been able to calm him down. And with the baby thing, as I just pointed out he would've reacted in the same way.
Not only that but there was a scene where Kenny actually said he felt at peace when Carver was beating him to the point of almost killing him.
The man was suffering and missed his family. As heartbreaking as it was to let him go, he was a man with nothing to lose and I wouldn't have put it past him to eventually hurt Clem. Even though Jane is a new character, I trusted her more than Kenny in the end.
When Clem was in trouble, Lee killed the Stranger. He didn't show any mercy then, when arguably the Stranger's argument actually made a bit of sense (I don't agree with the Stranger of course). That's a determinant decision.
When Kenny thinks that Jane has killed/lost the baby, he reacts just as Lee did. So yes, Lee would have done exactly the same thing, regardless of the decisions you made as Lee (as killing the Stranger is determinant).
Do you really call sense acting calmly when you think someone's just killed a baby you love (as Kenny did)?
These are the type of people I like: people who realise that Jane and Kenny had good and bad things, but who realise how Jane exploited the fact that Kenny cared too much- exploited his humanity- in order to provoke a fight and kill him. I liked Jane initially, and their are things I don't like about Kenny (he can be a jerk sometimes and his compassion clouds his judgement (though how much of a flaw is that??))- but, having weighed up the arguments for both sides, it couldn't be clearer that Kenny is the better person of the two.
Because he was already insane and if the baby wasn't there who knows what he would've done a lot earlier than this.
So you call caring about a child an then being angry if they are harmed insanity?
You could say the same about other characters- Sarah is a nice, innocent friendly girl, so why doesn't Jane attract to her at all? Because Sarah is a liability, she's not used to this world and is more likely to get people killed then be of any use.
You want me to believe AJ was alive in the snowstorm? Because i thought he was dead too. Jane is cold she would go there, she left her sister to die whats stopping her from killing a baby?
When Kenny started to push around Arvo and keep in mind this a disabled man who most likely was hanging with his group to survive. He just lost his sister and all Kenny can do was torment him. Kenny couldn't relate to his loss.
Why should he? The guy just tried to get the whole group killed. He just endangered those he cares about (eg; Clementine). And there's a big difference in relating to the loss of a friend (he understands Ben when he says what he's lost in Season 1) and the loss of someone who just had a hand in almost killing your entire group. How anyone can be sympathetic to that guy is ridiculous- he just tried to kill you and, as he proves later, he still tries to kill Clementine so he can't be trusted. It's all too easy to say "he can't relate to them" when you yourself have never experienced something like that. And quite frankly I couldn't care what Arvo lost; he tried to kill the group. You can sympathise with Arvo about his loss when he tried to kill the whole group, yet you can't sympathise with Kenny whose lost as much (if not more) who you claim is a danger to the group. That inconsistency shows you have a huge amount of bias against Kenny and aren't looking at this in a balanced, reasonable way.
Jane hiding the baby was to protect Clem from the monster who was in front of her and Clem couldn't see it because of her loyalty to Kenny
Kenny never planned to kill Jane, whilst Jane planned it all out in her head. Who's the monster there? The guy who reacts violently when he thinks a loved one has died or someone who plans to simulate the death of a loved one to lure Kenny into a fight in order to kill them? I wouldn't say Jane is a monster, but on the basis of those actions she's a far more scheming, cruel, manipulative person then Kenny is.
Now she didn't want to kill Kenny
Oh of course she did! She told Clementine to stay out of it, she calculated it all in her head, and I she didn't want a fight she could've mentioned the baby not being dead at any time but she chose not too. She didn't stop a fight escalating, she wanted it to happen. Your statement is completely flawed.
What if their wasn't people around the next time Clem makes a mistake or just makes a choice that Kenny doesn't approve of?
Well if you disagree with him whilst your alone in the car with him nothing happens, does it? Your making suggestions without having a single bit of proof to back up your statements. Again, this displays a radical bias that makes all of your arguments illogical.
I'm sorry Jane did what every good parent would do, get her away from the man who's on the brink of insanity to point of committing murder
Jane planned out hiding the baby in order to simulate a fight in which she would kill Kenny. It's planned, so it's murder. As Kenny says after the fight, he didn't intend it and he acted on the impulse of the moment. That's manslaughter. He never intended to kill Jane, Jane planned it all out meticulously.
But Jane ultimately showed she cares for others and wanted to take on the tough task of raising a child and Clem
The whole reason she even related to Clem in the first place is because she knows Clem doesn't need looking after- Clem can take care of herself, she doesn't need any care, and she's far more likely to increase Jane's chance of survival because Clem knows what she's doing. And choosing to take care of a baby is nothing remarkable or special. Only a pure monster like Carver would leave a baby to die. That's nothing remarkable at all. Kenny, who you dislike so much, was the man who originally took it on himself to look after the baby. As the scene in Arvo's cabin shows, Jane doesn't want to hold the baby and isn't interested in looking after it. She's a murderer and a cold, calculating person but she's not that much of a bad person to let a baby die. No one would. So the fact she takes on looking after a baby is a completely irrelevant point, anyone would do that.
Kenny has anger issues and he can react violently. But look at the causes of those reactions- someone getting his family killed, someone who smashed his head in, someone who tried to kill the entire group and someone who (he thought) had lost/killed a baby. His only crime was being too human and allowing his feelings to make him violent. That's why so many people love him- for his humanity. And he's broken by the losses he's suffered, of course, but he still doesn't give up hope. He HOPES about Wellington, he HOPES (though blindly) that Duck will be okay. Then look at Jane, who gives up on her sister and is willing to give up on Sarah as well. In that way, Jane is more broken than Kenny- she's allowed the apocalypse to break her hope, her compassion, whilst Kenny (whilst he has lost a lot more) maintains his hope. Jane was at Howe's longer then the cabin group and Kenny, and she hadn't tried escaping at all- she only interacted with the group when she saw they were useful to her, that they could get her out of Howe's. Kenny, right from the moment he got trapped, was trying to figure out how to escape- he never gives up hope, whilst Jane all too easily does.
Also, the baby wasn't around when he lost Sarita. And what did he do??? NOTHING! All he did was get down and moody, before he recovered.
Her sister wanted to die, even when Jane didn't allow that. She said herself that she dragged her across 4 states keeping her alive against her own will. When in the end she saw no hope in her wanting to be saved so she let her go. I don't get why people think Jane is so fucking heartless. If she was, she wouldn't come back at all, or get so worried and helping Clementine when she fell down in the lake. Jane also kept believing Clementine was the only one who could bring back Kenny from the abyss his mind fell into. In the end Clem couldn't and she wanted safety for Clem and AJ, so she acted as if the baby was gone/lost or killed by a walker, so that Clementine could see how far Kenny would go. People who bash on Jane should really open their fanboy Kenny eyes and see the truth about how things really are.
Jane isn't heartless. But, unlike Kenny, she gives up. Kenny is always trying to keep going- even when they were captured by Carver he was planning to make an escape. Look at Jane, who sat around talking to no one and only got involved in the plan when she realised they had a good chance of making the plan work.
Then she gave up on her sister and on Sarah. Kenny, meanwhile, refused to give up on Duck (though his emotion clouded his judgement (but can you really call that a flaw??)), refused to give in when Carver had smashed his head in and hoped beyond hope that Wellington was real. And he said himself that he knew Wellington could be a bunch of nonsense, but he didn't give up. That's one of the many reasons why I prefer Kenny.
Kenny's mind, unless you completely blanked out everything he said in the entire series, was far from "in an abyss". He'd been brutalised by the apocalypse, but wasn't everyone?
And as far keeping Clementine safe, that's a terrible reading of her character. She knows Clementine can look after herself, that's the whole reason she bonds with Clem in the first place. Clem increases Jane's chances of survival and vice versa as they both know how to survive. She doesn't need to protect Clementine, she knows that, but Clem is useful to her as a companion who knows what their doing.
And as for wanting safety for AJ- yes, I really think putting him in a random car in freezing conditions is really keeping him safe. She even doesn't want to hold him in Arvo's cabin. Her taking care of AJ is nothing special- no one would abandon a baby to die. But Kenny is the first person to really try and look after AJ, whereas Jane has the responsibility forced upon her, and even then it's Clem who's really looking after AJ. That's another reason why I prefer Kenny to Jane, despite his flaws.
This is something I notice with all Jane fans: they point out all the things they say are "good" about Jane but never bring up a single con. Then you look at a lot of Kenny fans who (like myself) know he's flawed but see why he's also the better person. So I would suggest that Jane fans open their eyes. Tell me one con about Jane from your perspective, or is she just perfect in your eyes?
And I'd also ask that you calm the language down. Swearing just shows a lack of control, reasoning and a total lack of intelligence and education.
I don't even know where to begin with your post. You just proved my point. I'm going to reply to this one post and hopefully you are not going to make me do it again.
Jane gives up? Quite the opposite in fact. She was alone because she was on her own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone (Carver's group is evidence) Without Jane the escape plan probably wouldn't have ever worked. When they escape and Troy confronted them it was Jane who stopped him and it was Jane who gave the idea for the guts from the Walkers and it was Jane who came back for Rebecca and Clementine. For a person who never really had a good go with groups of people she did a lot during the escape. While Kenny could only judge Clementine for killing/not helping Sarita for probably 2 episodes. Did Jane blame Clementine AT ALL for Luke's death? No, she didn't. Because she is not a psycho like someone else is.
Again, her sister gave up on this world and it affected Jane a lot. Like I said on my previous post, she kept her alive against her will as far as she could. I never really understood why the group didn't go back to Howe when there was so much provisions and the place was well kept for the most part and could be easily fixed after the zombie attack. While Wellington is one huge risk to take. You could freeze to death while going there and not really find anything + the baby will most likely get sick, die or worse in these conditions. Sure, less walker threat, but as we've seen in The Walking Dead humans are the biggest threat of them all and with little supplies up north humans will be twice as dangerous.
I don't know how you can't see how far gone he is. Sarita herself asks you if Kenny seems any different than he was before. He is gone. Period. He has good reason to lose his mind, sure, but that's how things are.
She knows? Did we play the same game? Because the one I played Jane teaches her so much when they escape Howe... She teaches her how to protect herself, how to sneak in and what weapons to use (the hatchet stuck in the head etc.) That's not the reason she bonds with Clem at all. She bonds with her because she feels her like a little sister. How does Clem increases Jane's chances of survival? She survived on her own all this time and she says herself that she has the best chance of survival if she is alone and not in a group and she gives Clem the advice of ditching the group if things get too hot (which they obviously do when Arvo show up)
You think there is air conditioner inside the rest stop? It's just as freezing as the inside of the car. And it's not like AJ was there all night or anything like that. It was for about 5 minutes. What does holding AJ has to do with anything? I wouldn't hold a baby either. Does that make me a murderer or automatically a bad person?
I will tell you what I didn't like about Jane.
Yeah, I got a little bit ahead of myself there for which I do apologize. I got really frustrated since people don't really bring any valid points on this matter and blindly defend.
Lee would be able to control Kenny by giving him a good ass kicking. Then Kenny won't act out of control.
Nobody ever said Jane likes Clem just because she is little and nice.
The only way to control Kenny is if we had a cage to keep him in and could let him out when we need someones face smashed off.
Why are you getting so emotional about this
People that dislike Kenny are short-tempered like Kenny.
No they're calling it hearing that a baby suddenly died then accusing someone of killing it without any explanation or evidence and trying to viciously kill said person. So yes that is isanity.
No, that's not true. Some people don't like Kenny due to his attitude, some people hate him more as his character progresses. People aren't short tempered just because they don't like him. You could say the same thing about how people are short tempered because they don't like "Insert Character Here", but it doesn't make it 100% true.
Most people aren't going to love or hate a character for the exact same reason.
When there was the whole Kenny vs Luke confrontation I was more on Luke's side since he's my favourite character but I still liked Kenny, then in episode 4 when Kenny was really mad at Clementine and when him and Luke were arguing more I got annoyed with him. Although, episode 5 was redeeming for him (in my opinion) not when he was angry with Arvo but when he talked with Clem about how he missed his family and felt guilty about Alvin's death also when he apologised for how he reacted to Sarita's death I just felt quite sympathetic for him and all he lost. It also bugged me how much Jane, Mike and Bonnie would say 'he's loosing it... you have to snap him out of it' since Kenny knew that he was loosing it but he didn't know how to control himself. I think if Lee was there he would be alright since he even said in Season 1 Episode 5 that Lee and Clementine were the only family he had left, if he had them two there to help him then I think he would be alright, he obviously wouldn't be perfect but he would have been a lot better. Also as for the whole Kenny vs Jane thing I try to stay away from getting involved in it but I didn't agree with Jane hiding the baby from Kenny. Sure, she may not have directly said he was dead but she didn't say that he wasn't either which made Kenny, Clementine and the players think that AJ was dead. AJ was Kenny's last hope and honestly I think he wanted to look after AJ so he can raise him right and be there for him (unlike he was to Duck as he said when you were at the power station) and when he thought AJ was dead it made him snap and at first I thought it was wrong of him to want to kill Jane since I thought it was an accident but then when I found out he wasn't actually dead and Jane was doing that all for a reaction from Kenny I was mad at her and decided to let Kenny kill her (since I watched a playthrough of someone who killed Kenny but when I actually played it I let Kenny kill Jane) only because she told us not to get involved right? Also, I've noticed in the Jane ending she says to Clem afterwards 'I didn't think Kenny would go that far' but then when they are fighting Kenny says 'I'm gonna kill you!' and Jane replies with 'I knew you would!' ...So yeah, she's a liar :P
Ummm...Lee would've kicked Kenny's ass and be done with it.
He would have intervened as the two started fighting, and he would have saved Jane from Kenny, but without killing him. Lee was strong, he could just get over there and pull him away from her or maybe kick Kenny in the face or something.
But with Lee, neither Kenny nor Jane would have died. Which would have been preferable.
Sorry, but what loved one? He's been around the baby for less than a day. He can't possibly have any real bonding with it. It's just that Kenny lost too much already and the fear of losing someone he might get attached to in the future just flips his mind (again). If it was Clementine he would've hurt her too, I guarantee it. He is clearly insane at the end.
She was alone because she was on her own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone (Carver's group is evidence) Without Jane the escape plan probably wouldn't have ever worked. When they escape and Troy confronted them it was Jane who stopped him and it was Jane who gave the idea for the guts from the Walkers and it was Jane who came back for Rebecca and Clementine. For a person who never really had a good go with groups of people she did a lot during the escape. While Kenny could only judge Clementine for killing/not helping Sarita for probably 2 episodes. Did Jane blame Clementine AT ALL for Luke's death? No, she didn't. Because she is not a psycho like someone else is.
That all is completely irrelevant to the fact that she gives up whilst Kenny is a hopeful person. That just stating what she did do after Kenny had come up with the entire plan. And as for Luke's death, Jane's only known that guy about 4-5 days. Kenny's been with Sarita a lot longer and lost a lot more than Jane has. Of course he's going to be more upset. And yes, maybe Kenny does go over the top with Clem and is unreasonable but the majority of his anger is directed at the group talking about him behind his back (which they are).
When she talked to Kenny in the car that he is crazy because of his family. But after that she tried to apologize if you remember, but Kenny interrupted her since they stopped and Kenny went out to look for gas for the car.
That's an action, not an actual flaw in character. I can acknowledge that Kenny can be a jerk, that he loses control and is stubborn. But all Jane fans only see Jane as a 2D Character with no flaws in personality (actions aren't personality). And, Telltale being professionals, of course Jane has flaws! Characters being completely perfect is just bad story telling! And in fact, during that point you still tried to put a positive twist on your point by saying she tried to apologize. It just proves how Jane fans can only see one side of the argument, and how it's they who need to open their eyes.
You think there is air conditioner inside the rest stop? It's just as freezing as the inside of the car
Really? The rest stop had far more protection from the wind, and isn't made of freezing metal.
2.When they try to rescue Sarah and Luke and she wants Clementine to let Sarah go. Again, I'm not trying to defend her, but how I see it is that she did that because of what happened with her sister
This whole point just proves my argument about her being a person who gives up. She gave up on her sister, she wanted Clem to give up on Sarah
He is gone. Period. He has good reason to lose his mind, sure, but that's how things are
How can you say he has a good reason to lose his mind? People have lost a lot more than he has- Ben, for instance. And of course he isn't "gone"- he gets mad after Sarita's death because that's natural, and you can't tell me that being hopeful classes as insanity. Neither Jane or Kenny are insane, neither are perfect or utterly bad, but when you analyse the two character's personalities and actions its quite obvious that Kenny is overall the better human being.
Even Telltale has a bias towards Kenny, and they were the people who created these two characters! When Jane is killed or you leave Jane there's barely any fuss made, it's just over with. If Kenny dies or you leave Kenny they give him a big emotional speech or death. They created the characters, so if they favour one over the other it's quiet obvious who's the better character.
Does that make me a murderer or automatically a bad person?
It automatically shows that she's not a natural carer. She doesn't want that responsibility, mostly to do with the fact that she's scarred by her losses and doesn't want to get close to anyone. Compare that to Kenny, who copes by protecting and getting close to others.
Because the one I played Jane teaches her so much when they escape Howe... She teaches her how to protect herself
She teaches her a technique, not the basics like Lee did. Clem can already protect herself, she gives her a bit more info (basically like Christa did)
How does Clem increases Jane's chances of survival?
Basic survival 101: Two people who know what they're doing is a lot better than one
own throughout the apocalypse and never really had the chance to trust anyone
She tells Clem a story of a group she was with before she went alone, when they went back for someone who was bit. Through her loses she's shrank into herself and stopped trusting people; she's allowed the apocalypse to rob her of hope and trust. Maybe that's the sensible thing to do, maybe Kenny's hope is foolish sometimes, but in terms of whose the better human being I'd say it's the person that hopes.
So overall review: you still haven't named a single flaw in CHARACTER, not in actions which every character in TWD does; you obviously must believe that hoping automatically means insanity, otherwise your whole "Kenny is insane" argument would fall apart.
Yeah, I got a little bit ahead of myself there for which I do apologize. I got really frustrated since people don't really bring any valid points on this matter and blindly defend.
Yeah, I got a little bit ahead of myself there for which I do apologize. I got really frustrated since people don't really bring any valid points on this matter and blindly defend
I consistently debate with people who have no idea what they're talking about, and if you checked my posts you'd find that I don't need to reduce to swearing to get a point across
He assumes that Jane's the baby because of his distrustful view of Jane. But, the way I see it, whether you think someone killed a baby or lost a baby is irrelevant. Anyone would react in anger, if they had any humanity.
He might not have to resort to that but yea, Lee can bring Kenny back down to earth.
He can't of bonded with it?? He just delivered the baby! And on your point about him hurting Clem, that's ridiculous- when he blames Clem for getting Sarita killed (which at the time was before the baby arrived) he does nothing, just gets mad.
Acting out in anger, yes that's quite normal. What Kenny did was killing someone over what he thought was an accident which seriously is not the same thing as getting "angry" he went far pass that point already.
I totally agree.
These Kenny hate threads are so damn old, they're downright irritating.
I especially hate those Kenny vs Jane threads, those are especially not cool.
Even though Kenny is my favorite character in TWD, next to Lee, I gotta say: "I don't care if people love or hate Kenny anymore. He's just a videogame character. And I think there are plenty more important things to get whipped up about."
Actually Jane said she didn't kill AJ loud and clear, to which Kenny replied bullshit. I feel like I'm the only one who assumed that AJ wasn't actually dead :x really I don't see how killing someone out of anger is ever going to help anyone, if someone can't control themselves that makes them dangerous, I like Kenny but if he can't control himself he's bound to hurt people even if he tries not to. Jane might be a liar but at least she doesn't blame things on people or kill people
I still like Kenny, I think Lee would've been able to brought him back but if you can't blame Kenny for wanting to kill Jane out of anger thinking without evidence that Jane killed AJ then how can you blame Jane for defending herself and trying to show Clementine how dangerous Kenny is when Kenny literally treats her like shit as soon as she rejoins with the group after she saved his life. Just saying 
What I never understood is: why are Kenny supporters thinking Jane implied that she killed the baby? It was damn freezing out there. At such a young age and without proper food, AJ could have easily froze to death in Jane's arms, and that's what I assumed. She even said that it was an accident. Jane never tells she killed him with her own hands or left him and even if he died due to cold she couldn't have done anything to save him.
For me, Kenny had no valid reasons to think she killed AJ.
Why do you keep saying she killed the baby? All she said was that it was an accident meaning that she definitely did not kill the baby.
And by accident it doesn't mean she left him behind either. There was plenty around that could have killed AJ be it cold weather of walkers, so stop pinning the blame on Jane, okay.
Jane said; 'I didn't kill him it was an accident Kenny!' Implying that she did kill him but it was an accident, I never said I was mad at Jane for defending herself but her actions (of hiding the baby and implying that it had died) contributed to Kennys death. True he may have been going 'crazy' but to try and kill a man that has lost everything and pretend you have taken away one of his last pieces of hope, that's just wrong... Just saying.:P
First, in the final fight, Lee's action would've been up to the player, althrough it surely could be centered aroud using force, unless he was injured like Clem.
Anyway, even though Lee's personality was variable, he still had a few unchanged features. It's repeatedly shown that Kenny remembered him as a good man.
"I wish Lee was here. What would he do?"
As much as Kenny disliked and actively opposed some of Lee's ideas or lidership, Kenny becomes saddened at the reminder of his death, he reveals to Clementine that he wishes Lee was with them, showing that he is still deppresed because of his death and he would ask him for help if he could. If reunited, he would look back at all those situation when Lee was giving him good advices. I believe that Kenny would hear Lee out and count on his help, meaning Lee would be a person Kenny trusts and Lee could've changed, to some extent, the way Kenny acted.
I actually don't hate kenny. The whole time I was trying to have Clem calm him down because I new that the group was going to do something about him. But obvisioulty you can't really change the story line in this game. Kenny was suppose to tare the group apart and make it difficullt for Clem to choose between the new people in her life and her old friend.
Amen to that Deventh! Also am I the only one that see's Jane deliberatley showing Kenny that she didn't want to fight him by putting the knife back! After Kenny saw that he see's an opportunity to pounce on her. Also gentlemen. I know its the apocalypse and Jane can hold her own. But I would NEVER HIT A WOMEN OR FIGHT A WOMEN! I'm very surprised people are okay with that. Now if she came at me with the knife. I would try to disarm her and if it got to the point that I needed to kill her to survive. That's okay. But Kenny had Jane when it wasn't survival for him anymore. He could of stopped and said what am I doing. But he went to far and would of murdreded Jane if you didn't stop him. And Remember people Jane never confessed that she killed the baby. I interpretted her reaction to the baby as he didn't make it.
Great point AdamsBurnsRed! He finally felt at peace and then he mentions he wakes up to this! And that's with Saratia in his life. Even his new girlifrend wasn't enough for him to want to come back.