TellTale messed up Carver. He had so much potential
In episode 2 he fought his battle with strategies and he didnt take thangs to far. Sure he killed Walter and broke Carlos finger. In episode 2 I felt he wasn't too psycho like the Governor in the television series. NOW in episode 3 of season 2 HE WAS THE WORSE Carver didnt care he punched everyone he slapped Clementine for staring at him Senseless violence. At least that was my opinion! Did you guys think Carver's character got ruined in episode 3?
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I see this claim often, but did he really have potential?
He was a tired trope in episode 2 as well as episode 3, just in different ways.
He had a ton of potential to be a villian that uses his smarts. I wanted to see him survive until season 3 episode 1 or 2
Well the cabin group had potential too but look at what happened to them. Yeah Carver was an interesting character but I think he got killed off at the right time.
Honestly, not really.
People always cite the "he's a completely different character" card, but he didn't really change that much at all.
He was a brutal psychotic leader in episode 2. He was also a brutal psychotic leader in episode 3, the only difference being that you saw more of the "psychotic" part than you did before.
You might argue his role has grown old or tired, but for what it's worth, I still liked him as an antagonist (for me, he's my favorite antagonist from the franchise next to Negan)
Ehh I want Nate in season 3 as a bad guy or maybe he can take car of clem. Instead of making new characters tey need to bring back some characters. Like Russel,Nate,Vince and Wyatt
'A villain that uses his smarts' is extremely overdone in fiction.
Someone like Nate is far more refreshing.
Very True I was super Pissed when they killed Nick and Luke
Oh, not this again.
Carver wasn't wasted, wasn't changed off-screen or wasn't more "gray" in episode 2. He was the same character in both episodes, with the same morality and behavior.
One thing TT messed up is Carver's backstory, or more like the lack of it.
To be honest, this "Carver was awesome in episode 2" cliche is just projection by people who were giving the devs too much credit. Even from episode 1, it's quite clear that Carver is a horrible monster, with the cabin group assuming he'd be capable of using children as spies and of massacring random strangers.
And in episode 2? From start to finish, he's a sleazy, lying, hostile scumbag who doesn't even remotely resemble a lesser evil to the other characters. He tortures and murders people in a shoot-out, and has no qualms with hurting Clementine for preventing him from killing somebody. He's invincible enough to shrug off a bullet in his arm and goes on to shoot Alvin with that same crippled limb.
He was a terrifying monster, but that's all he was. Episode 2 cemented his position as vile bastard and I think Reggie's existence was unnecessary as a result - there was no need to make him murder a cripple when his previous evil acts were already convincing enough. In fact, I'd say he's rather consistent between episodes 2 and 3.
Should he have lived on to episode 5? I'd say so. He's more compelling than Kenny.
He seemed more one sided in Episode 3. He was lacking the cool charismatic, chilling factor we saw at the cabin in episode 2.
You can chalk that up to him being back in his domain in episode 3.
He probably plays it safe when he's out in the wild, but once he's back inside his kingdom, he lets loose.
I'm still astonished that people minimize his brutality at the ski lodge, despite it setting the tone for his behavior in episode 3. Blatantly torturing a man in front of his daughter; murdering an unarmed hostage; potentially beating a little girl or threatening to murder her/an unarmed woman - all that stuff is 'morally grey', is acceptable to fans who apparently played a different game from me.
Hell, based off that scene, I can definitely imagine him slaughtering those bandits back at episode 1. All of his nonsense about "forgiveness" is just a bunch of silly words used to justify enslaving people who had every reason to hate him.
Beautifully said, Bokor. Take my like
Carver wasn't wasted. He was just some creep with lots of power, and he showed it.
Also people complain that Carver was killed too early, but I'm sure if he wasn't killed in ep 3 people would complain he was in it too much
Thanks, JonTron.
Carver was completely wasted. We only saw him portrayed one way, as a monstrous person for 99% of the game. We saw other sides poke out on a blue moon, that most people totally missed, ie) When Clementine eavesdrops on Carver's conversation, if you apologise he is soft on her. I loved Carver's voice actor, he did a great job, unfortunately they killed him off with bad writing.
Everyone is Plot Device Especially the cabin group.. in s2
Seemed very fitting to me especially in TWD universe. Don't villains/trouble makers for the protagonist last not too long in the comics? Carver was smart and brutal in his actions like a more sophisticated bully.
I don't see why people complain that his character changed from episode 2. He did some pretty nasty stuff like torturing Carlos, killing Alvin and Walter, and hurting Clementine to get what he wants. Then he goes on hurting more people in the next episode to prove his points and show that he's in charge. When he died, Carver left his scar on Clementine and the player to make you think that maybe it's time for a darker change if you hadn't already.
'Sophisticated bully' sounds about right. To be honest, I didn't think he was particularly complex or sympathetic but he DID have a great presence. I'd much rather have had the final confrontation of episode 5 be between him and Clem rather than the childish squabble between Kenny & Jane.
A scene of Clementine running away from an already injured Carver would make a great climax.
Would be a nice callback to the scene with the bandits from the first episode after the timeskip.
Interesting Fact - Nate some unused dialogue where he apologizes sincerely to Walt and Jean, and one where he doesn't.
I like when villains are given sincerity. Makes them more relatable.
He died way too early. We could of been at the (prison) hopes for at least 2 more episodes.
I think the problem was for me, Episode 2 really set Carver up as being this interesting bad guy. Carver comes to the cabin and although he never actually hurts Clementine or threatens her, you still feel that threatening nature [like when he picks up the knife and doesn't use it, you're like 'oh crap oh crap']. And then at the ski lodge, the tactics he used to make all the group surrender and the violence he inflicted on Carlos, to killing Walter and Alvin, yeah, Carver came across as really lethal.
Sadly, when Episode 3 comes around, they didn't keep building on this. Carver ends up just being a generic bad guy and that's about it, if anything the bad guy thing plays onto it too much, for example the reasons behind Carver killing Reggie were just completely blown out of proportion. The explaination could be that he never intended for Reggie to be allowed back in [implying neither would've any of the cabin group] yet it's hard to say for I'm sure what it is exactly to explain myself better, but I always felt there just that right enough of balance in Carver's character back in Episode 2 where his actions felt more valid, rather than freaking out about berries o_o
Let's talk about other 'antagonists' for a second that have featured in the TWD games so far. What made The Stranger, or the St. Johns so interesting was that we got them, we understood how they became what they were. For example The Stranger lost his family and blamed Lee and his group for what happened, and was seeing Clementine as a replacement for his son as a result of all that loss and mentally just losing it. Carver needed something at least, if just an explaination to how he got to thinking the way that he did, rather than just 'he's a bad guy' and that be that. Yet even characters like Nate who didn't get any back story, my god even with the time shared with him I thought he was brilliant! They could've stuck him in Season 2 and I'd of been sold, that guy was crazy awesome and just brought so much life to Russel's story.
But perhaps a better example would be the Governor for the TV series. Season 4 when it did those few episodes with him and that family, I just LOVED that and what they did with him, that even when he started turning rotten again and even despite everything he'd done before, when Rick gave him that offer that 'they could make this work' I really wanted the Governor to take it, I was seriously hoping he'd make the right choice and when he didn't my reaction was 'aw crap!' but I enjoyed it =D
There have been great antagonists in the series [maybe even in the comics, although I haven't read those...heheh XD] but it's just a shame Carver didn't get more done with him to make him more interesting within Episode 3 and be just as memorable. Maybe what would've been cool is if we'd seen Carver trying to groom Clementine to his way of thinking more, so she'd be part of his community as he intended A.J to be. Michael7123 has been writing that with his fic Reasons for Living and I've been enjoying what he's been doing on that recently with adding a more humanish side to Carver where it makes sense why so many people would be willing trust him.
Even Villains are human.
I'm sure depending on who you ask, every one of us is a villain to somebody.
I wish the Carver plot had lasted all season instead of this "choose your new mentor and find where the hell you are going" bullshit in Ep.4 and Ep.5
Oh that would be so cool. I could see it, Carver wanting revenge on the Clem's group after destroying everything he worked so hard to build. He makes life a living hell until episode 5's final confrontation.
Yeah, I pretty much stand with Licasbloom in regards to Carver being more interesting, and less "evil bastard" in episode 2 and it mostly has to do with the fact that he's calm and creeply friendly in the cabin with Clem.
But, either way, wasted, generic, and on Saturday morning cartoon levels of evil.
I don't think he was really "ruined". He could've been a lot more developed and they could've kept him around for a lot longer, but I don't think he's really ruined.
The trailer for Carver made him look interesting, but really he was just a generic villain.
I'm interested in that fanfic. TBH, I also think it'd have served Carver's character better if he made a stronger effort to be a 'mentor' to Clem. As it is, the one time he and Clem have a private conversation in his office is all about him trying to justify murdering a nice guy right in front of her using elementary school bully logic ("lol they weak we strong").
It would have given more players food for thought if, instead, he forced Clem to look at the damages caused by zombie attacks, or visit the medical wing and see how badly Carlos screwed up by abandoning him.
Yeah, I can imagine Amid The Ruins being about a confrontation between Clem's group and the remnants of Carver's goons, culminating in a shootout that leaves virtually everyone aside from Clem and Carver dead.
I thought he would be around for every episode, and be the main problem of the whole series. But, I'm kinda glad he wasn't. I actually think telltale did okay with him.
I think TellTale should stop making "interesting" characters, cause if their death is not a grand one, people instantly label it as "lazy writing".
Season 3 will follow the story of a family of rocks watching paint dry
I didn't expect Carver to die on Episode 3. Personally, I wanted the community arc to last episode 3 and 4.
What some people don't seem to understand is that a lot of characters exist for character development of other characters.
Prime example; Shane Walsh. Had an affair with his best friend's wife because he thought his friend was dead. But he wasn't, but he still wanted Lori and eventually Rick had to kill him.
Lori: Shane.. Rick.. Coral..
Carol's husband
Yes, interesting characters are boring.
In other words, lolwut
"I'm smart you're dumb; I'm big you're little; I'm right you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it!"
Oooo! Trying to paint the cabin group as the bad guys INSTEAD by showing things like that? I like it! =D now that would've been really smart tactic if Carver had done something like that. Imagine if depending on how Clem responded to Carver, if agreeing or siding with him, it actuallly affected how the rest of group viewed Clementine from there on out.
If Carver's such a smart guy, surely he'd have a more sophisticated philosophy than the generic 'survival of the meanest'. Hell, I can imagine him ACTUALLY using Clem as a spy in episode 3 just as the cabin group suspected her to be - making her interact with the prisoners during the day, while reporting to Carver at night.