You seriously strike me as the type of person who would watch a terrorist cut off someone's head, then make an excuse for why the terrorist did that while sympathizing with the terrorist. Then protests the waterboarding of that terrorist if he's captured, calling those people who did that monsters.
No, you constantly claiming Kenny is the best thing in this game and acting like he has no flaws and is 100% right and is a hero when he's far from it and claiming everyone who disagrees is an idiot seems pretty damn biased and a tad bit delusional.
I do hate Arvo. And Kenny is unbalanced, but he was RIGHT. And he does always think of the people he's protecting FIRST. That's the psychology behind Kenny. He will do vicious things to people he imprints as 'the enemy' - but for the people he protects, he will do anything that's necessary to protect them. Especially AJ, Clem, and Sarita. That doesnt make him evil. He's actually very willing to sacrifice his own life to save someone else he feels is worthy of saving. Someone he thinks is innocent. Like Clem and AJ. He even tries to sacrifice himself to save BEN of all people (after Ben had his blowout and Ken possibly saw that Ben was suffering as much as the rest of them), or sacrifices himself to save Christa - depending on which choices you made in Season 1.
It should be noted, though, that he's very intolerant WHENEVER you disagree with him at all, but he tends to snap back from that to being a good person, and usually apologizes afterwards. He realizes his faults, which are many. But he's practical about it - he doesnt have time to go to therapy for his anger issues, because all the therapists have been eaten by zombies. That doesnt ignore the fact that Kenny winds up being right. Arvo lied about his sister being 'sick' - he's possibly even a druggie. Arvo's FIRST instinct upon seeing Clementine, unarmed, at the Observation Tower, is to point a gun at her, even when she's talking calmly to him, and he NEVER stops pointing the gun from her head. Arvo lies about Clem robbing him, even if Clem did not rob him. Arvo threatens the group by screaming up a storm in the transformer area, which can call walkers to their location. Arvo shoots Clem no matter what Clem does. Arvo shoots Clem even if you were nice to Arvo the entire time, put your gun down, and ask to go with them.
Arvo. Is. Evil. (and unbalanced, and a liar, and angry, and I wish Kenny had not grabbed him as a shield when he was giving mouth to mouth to his dead sister so that his sister could have bitten his face off instead)
Kenny is just stubborn and unbalanced when angry - not evil. He even recognizes this fact, so he's not even deluded.
Think of Kenny like... Rick from the TV show. Willing to be completely vicious to protect those in his group. And Rick is, now, like Shane was back in season 2. Just without the rapey elements.
That's why Arvo was such a shitty villain to me. He was a plot device, and his entire hatred of Clementine was based off of a misunderstandi… moreng. The game keeps the player from being able to have a genuine conversation with him to keep him mad at Clementine. (Because eventually he would have asked 'why'd you murder my sister' Clem would explain and then that would be that.) But he has to stay a character we get to know nothing about so he can shoot her and that somehow is supposed to justify Kenny's abuse because he knew Arvo was a shitbird 'all along.' Even though it was implied that it was Kenny's harsh treatment of Arvo and the way he pretty much never gave a shit about what anyone else had to say that drove Mike and company to want to skip town in the first place. (I'm not saying Kenny was wrong to be wary of Arvo, because that is very justified to me. I felt bad for Arvo, yeah, but if I was in that situation I wouldn't trust him at all. Be… [view original content]
The difference being is that Arvo didn't cut off someone's head to warrant the kind of shit he was getting from Kenny and Kenny fanatics, keep on with the whole Arvo is Satan schlock cause I'm not changing my mind that Kenny went way over the line in treating Arvo like shit with beating him up and using racist slurs.
All this bullying from you Kenny fanatics is toxic.
You seriously strike me as the type of person who would watch a terrorist cut off someone's head, then make an excuse for why the terrorist … moredid that while sympathizing with the terrorist. Then protests the waterboarding of that terrorist if he's captured, calling those people who did that monsters.
Meh. Kenny wasn't hurting Arvo to protect the group though. He just wanted to take his anger out on him and was using 'I was protecting you guys' as an excuse. I made a thread about Arvo a while ago and went into greater detail about this, but the first thing Kenny says to Arvo once he's tied up and can't hurt anyone is, "Just give me a reason." Kenny was beating Arvo just because he wanted to do it.
How is using xenophobic slurs and making fun of him for not knowing English 'protecting' the group? What purpose does that possibly serve other than to make Arvo hate the group even more? Arvo was tied up and had to lead them to his place regardless of if Kenny was constantly beating him or not, abusing him was either going to make no difference, or more likely, make things even worse. Kenny isn't evil, but beating Arvo was pretty much unneeded.
And as for if Kenny was right about Arvo, technically in game, he was. But the writing behind it was sloppy and seems to give off the message that Kenny can be as cruel as he wants to be as long as the person he's abusing turns out to be an even bigger asshole. They made Arvo a plot-device to do this and that doesn't sit right with me.
I do hate Arvo. And Kenny is unbalanced, but he was RIGHT. And he does always think of the people he's protecting FIRST. That's the psycholo… moregy behind Kenny. He will do vicious things to people he imprints as 'the enemy' - but for the people he protects, he will do anything that's necessary to protect them. Especially AJ, Clem, and Sarita. That doesnt make him evil. He's actually very willing to sacrifice his own life to save someone else he feels is worthy of saving. Someone he thinks is innocent. Like Clem and AJ. He even tries to sacrifice himself to save BEN of all people (after Ben had his blowout and Ken possibly saw that Ben was suffering as much as the rest of them), or sacrifices himself to save Christa - depending on which choices you made in Season 1.
It should be noted, though, that he's very intolerant WHENEVER you disagree with him at all, but he tends to snap back from that to being a good person, and usually apologizes after… [view original content]
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
And if she was sick, why was he hiding the medicine in the trash, instead of keeping it in the group where his 'sick sister' would need it? (in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect, genetically, black people, indian people, and people from the countries of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Greece)
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
Illnesses where one doesn't have to be bedridden all the time but still need medication for exist.
why was he hiding the medicine in the trash,
I have a theory that Arvo was trying to run away from his group with his sister and was stashing the medicine there to use later, but that's just a headcanon.
in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect,
Telltale was never good with being medically accurate. .-.
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
And if… more she was sick, why was he hiding the medicine in the trash, instead of keeping it in the group where his 'sick sister' would need it? (in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect, genetically, black people, indian people, and people from the countries of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Greece)
Wow, you are quite the hypocrite. I am not a Kenny fanatic - he is unstable, if you are viewed as his enemy - but compared to Arvo he's mana from heaven. If you are in his group, he is loyal.
You are the only fanatic I see here. They take a character in the game, and have him do things which outright show him to be a disreputable liar, a thief, and an attempted killer of the one person who almost EVERYONE will agree is NOT evil (Clem).... and you defend him and try to make him out to be an innocent little lamb.
Then you bully anyone who points out that Kenny is the one who protects Clem. He treats Arvo like crap because his group were bandits, and letting him live is a mistake (Which it turns out he was RIGHT About).
All this PC bull about Kenny calling him a russkie - it's the friggin zombie apocalypse and you're getting culturally sensitive? Kenny had immense respect for Lee. And for Clem. And for Alvin even, who he barely knew. Hardly seems that he's racist. He just hates people who are parts of groups who point WEAPONS AT HIM AND HIS GROUP.
The difference being is that Arvo didn't cut off someone's head to warrant the kind of shit he was getting from Kenny and Kenny fanatics, k… moreeep on with the whole Arvo is Satan schlock cause I'm not changing my mind that Kenny went way over the line in treating Arvo like shit with beating him up and using racist slurs.
All this bullying from you Kenny fanatics is toxic.
Does Kenny have anger issues, and uses violence against people who are bad as an outlet? Or do people who are bad bring out his anger? Either way - Kenny's anger is directed at the people who deserve it, even if he goes overboard CONSTANTLY. Arvo was a threat the entire time, even when tied up, because as soon as he was given the chance, you see what he did.
Saying 'Kenny was right because of bad writing' is a poor argument. Everything you say about Kenny being bad, I can then also say 'nah, he doesnt have anger issues, it's just bad writing'. Take the writing for what it is, then ACCEPT that Arvo is ultimately a bad person.
Meh. Kenny wasn't hurting Arvo to protect the group though. He just wanted to take his anger out on him and was using 'I was protecting you … moreguys' as an excuse. I made a thread about Arvo a while ago and went into greater detail about this, but the first thing Kenny says to Arvo once he's tied up and can't hurt anyone is, "Just give me a reason." Kenny was beating Arvo just because he wanted to do it.
How is using xenophobic slurs and making fun of him for not knowing English 'protecting' the group? What purpose does that possibly serve other than to make Arvo hate the group even more? Arvo was tied up and had to lead them to his place regardless of if Kenny was constantly beating him or not, abusing him was either going to make no difference, or more likely, make things even worse. Kenny isn't evil, but beating Arvo was pretty much unneeded.
And as for if Kenny was right about Arvo, technically in game, he was. But the writing behind it… [view original content]
Heck, I would say the REAL bad writing was Jane disliking Kenny, when she's a LOT like Kenny, but to an extreme. Kenny doesnt trust outsiders unless they're taken into his group. Jane doesnt like outsiders, and doesnt want to be in a group so never has ANYONE she trusts.
Btw, does anyone realize that Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo were stealing all the supplies, including supplies which were needed for the completely innocent BABY? Anyone? You know... the baby?
Chicken or the egg on that reasoning.
Does Kenny have anger issues, and uses violence against people who are bad as an outlet? Or do peop… morele who are bad bring out his anger? Either way - Kenny's anger is directed at the people who deserve it, even if he goes overboard CONSTANTLY. Arvo was a threat the entire time, even when tied up, because as soon as he was given the chance, you see what he did.
Saying 'Kenny was right because of bad writing' is a poor argument. Everything you say about Kenny being bad, I can then also say 'nah, he doesnt have anger issues, it's just bad writing'. Take the writing for what it is, then ACCEPT that Arvo is ultimately a bad person.
"Illnesses where one doesn't have to be bedridden all the time but still need medication for exist."
You're making a lot of supposition without any evidence in support for Arvo's sister's 'sickness' in order to make a defense for Arvo. Based on what you actually SEE, the evidence is against Arvo being truthful.
"I have a theory that Arvo was trying to run away from his group with his sister and was stashing the medicine there to use later, but that's just a headcanon."
Again, you're making suppositions, which are in no way based on any actual evidence from what you see in the game. Based on what is seen in the game, Arvo was lying - and hiding medicine (mainly painkillers) from your own group increases the likelihood that he uses it for himself and didnt want his own group to know about it. It's at least a lot more likely - based on the fact that he was hiding it, rather than keeping it in the group, when he never says anything about his own group or wanting to leave it.
"Telltale was never good with being medically accurate. .-."
Sickle Cell Anemia is widely seen as a genetic disease which mainly affects black people (this is inaccurate, as it also affects Indians and people from Greek and Turkish, and Siciilian and Arab descent) - but even assuming a -genetic- disease somehow found its way into the decidedly white russian sister, there are a ton of other more applicable diseases which could be used. Plus NOTHIGN About sickle cell anemia was ever mentioned in the game. At all. It's again more supposition without any supported evidence, in an attempt to make an unlikeable character 'less of a liar'
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
I… morellnesses where one doesn't have to be bedridden all the time but still need medication for exist.
why was he hiding the medicine in the trash,
I have a theory that Arvo was trying to run away from his group with his sister and was stashing the medicine there to use later, but that's just a headcanon.
in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect,
Telltale was never good with being medically accurate. .-.
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
You can be sick and be able to walk and hold a gun. Not every disease leaves you crippled.
And if she was sick, why was he hiding the medicine in the trash, instead of keeping it in the group where his 'sick sister' would need it?
Maybe the group was moving to a better location, or that Arvo was stealing it so his sister and him could escape.
Who knows?
(in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect, genetically, black people, indian people, and people from the countries of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Greece)
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
And if… more she was sick, why was he hiding the medicine in the trash, instead of keeping it in the group where his 'sick sister' would need it? (in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect, genetically, black people, indian people, and people from the countries of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Greece)
"You can be sick and be able to walk and hold a gun. Not every disease leaves you crippled."
Again, total supposition not based on any evidence in the game. If you arent showing ANY sort of pain whatsoever, and nothing at all is said, in english or russian in the group, about her being sick, you can't then say 'well maybe she was, based on the complete nothing we have to support it'
"Maybe the group was moving to a better location, or that Arvo was stealing it so his sister and him could escape."
More supposition. You can also suppose that Arvo is a drug addict who was hiding the drugs so he doesnt have to share it with his bandit friends. You can also make a supposition that it was Arvo's idea to ambush the group. Instead, base your reasoning on stuff that actually occurs IN THE GAME, rather than in imagination.
"Telltale isn't medical experts. :P"
1) Telltale would know that Sickle Cell Anemia mainly affects black people (because that's the myth - even though it also affects indians, greeks, saudi arabians, turks, and sicilians). It's one of the few things ANYONE knows about Sickle Cell Anemia
2) In the game, no one EVER mentions Sickle Cell Anemia. At all. They don't even mention hydroxycarbamide, which would at least imply that she has sickle cell anemia. Please - stop making suppositions without evidence to make your point about Arvo not being a liar. Everything points to him BEING a liar.
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
Y… moreou can be sick and be able to walk and hold a gun. Not every disease leaves you crippled.
And if she was sick, why was he hiding the medicine in the trash, instead of keeping it in the group where his 'sick sister' would need it?
Maybe the group was moving to a better location, or that Arvo was stealing it so his sister and him could escape.
Who knows?
(in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect, genetically, black people, indian people, and people from the countries of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Greece)
Telltale isn't medical experts. :P
Either way - Kenny's anger is directed at the people who deserve it.
So you're saying that Kenny's reasoning behind beating Arvo, which is either, 1.) He was taking his anger out, or 2.) He genuinely thought he was protecting the group, is irrelevant because you think Arvo deserved the abuse? Is that what you mean by the 'chicken or egg' reasoning?
Saying 'Kenny was right because of bad writing' is a poor argument.
Using bad writing for anything is a poor argument because bad writing is an opinion, and in my opinion not allowing Clementine to converse with Arvo just so he'd have a reason to shoot her no matter what was bad writing. His hatred towards her was for a reason flimsy enough that it could have been resolved with a conversation, and in a game where having conversations with people is a big part, purposely keeping the player from having one with Arvo was bad, I thought. If you don't think so, then you're entitled to that.
does anyone realize that Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo were stealing all the supplies,
Yes...Which also doesn't make much sense to me either, because Mike has shown to care for Clementine. If Mike was completely selfish he wouldn't even bother bringing Arvo, he'd just take everything for himself and go. But he cared enough for Arvo to take him away from Kenny, so if characterization was consistent he should care enough for Clem to leave some food for her. As for Bonnie, even if she's mad at Clem for 'getting Luke killed', she should know that leaving AJ's caretakers with no food means they'll die and he'll have nobody to watch him, and she has shown to care for the baby. So them taking every single thing really seems out of character.
Heck, I would say the REAL bad writing was Jane disliking Kenny, when she's a LOT like Kenny, but to an extreme. Kenny doesnt trust outsider… mores unless they're taken into his group. Jane doesnt like outsiders, and doesnt want to be in a group so never has ANYONE she trusts.
Btw, does anyone realize that Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo were stealing all the supplies, including supplies which were needed for the completely innocent BABY? Anyone? You know... the baby?
You reply fast, I like that, keeps the debate going.
Again, total supposition not based on any evidence in the game. If you arent showing ANY sort of pain whatsoever, and nothing at all is said, in english or russian in the group, about her being sick, you can't then say 'well maybe she was, based on the complete nothing we have to support it'
Sickle Cell Anemia usually holds the symptoms of pain (Various amounts sometimes very little sometimes a lot, depends on the patient). They also can't do a lot of exercise...We saw her for one scene and then she's dead.
You can't just saw she didn't have a disease either as you don't have any evidence other than "She probably wasn't because we didn't see anything in one scene." even when Sickle Cell Anemia doesn't have a lot of noticeable symptoms.
More supposition. You can also suppose that Arvo is a drug addict who was hiding the drugs so he doesnt have to share it with his bandit friends. You can also make a supposition that it was Arvo's idea to ambush the group. Instead, base your reasoning on stuff that actually occurs IN THE GAME, rather than in imagination.
There isn't any info to go off of except what we have. Arvo was moving supplies to a location, he didn't want to hurt anyone, and he claims it was for his sick sister. During the actual gunfight he also wants to calm things down and it shows he has no control over what's happening.
You should let us actually guess as Telltale didn't provide any evidence to support your claim but there is evidence to support mine.
1) Telltale would know that Sickle Cell Anemia mainly affects black people (because that's the myth - even though it also affects indians, greeks, saudi arabians, turks, and sicilians). It's one of the few things ANYONE knows about Sickle Cell Anemia
Actually apparently you don't because it affects ANCESTORS of those races.
2) In the game, no one EVER mentions Sickle Cell Anemia. At all. They don't even mention hydroxycarbamide, which would at least imply that she has sickle cell anemia. Please - stop making suppositions without evidence to make your point about Arvo not being a liar. Everything points to him BEING a liar.
Why would they?
Please stop making guesses that he's a liar because there's nothing support that.
You see him in one scene of which he tells you he needs the medicine, in the next he's being forced by his group to mediate the ambush, in the rest of the game he won't even talk to you.
"You can be sick and be able to walk and hold a gun. Not every disease leaves you crippled."
Again, total supposition not based on any ev… moreidence in the game. If you arent showing ANY sort of pain whatsoever, and nothing at all is said, in english or russian in the group, about her being sick, you can't then say 'well maybe she was, based on the complete nothing we have to support it'
"Maybe the group was moving to a better location, or that Arvo was stealing it so his sister and him could escape."
More supposition. You can also suppose that Arvo is a drug addict who was hiding the drugs so he doesnt have to share it with his bandit friends. You can also make a supposition that it was Arvo's idea to ambush the group. Instead, base your reasoning on stuff that actually occurs IN THE GAME, rather than in imagination.
"Telltale isn't medical experts. :P"
1) Telltale would know that Sickle Cell Anemia mainly affects black people (be… [view original content]
"Sickle Cell Anemia usually holds the symptoms of pain (Various amounts sometimes very little sometimes a lot, depends on the patient). They also can't do a lot of exercise...We saw her for one scene and then she's dead."
Which is why you should stop presuming she had sickle cell anemia, when there's absolutely no reason to assume that. Moreover, it simply doesnt make sense. Sickle Cell Anemia causes CRIPPLING levels of pain, and if you're in that level of pain, is it a good idea to then go across a river, walk for a couple of days, through walker-infested country, to get to the painkillers your sister needs? No. You're making PURE speculation based on nothing except a desire to have Arvo not be a liar. The facts from the game don't support it.
"There isn't any info to go off of except what we have."
And yet you keep on making info up which is not in the game....
"Arvo was moving supplies to a location, he didn't want to hurt anyone, and he claims it was for his sick sister. "
His very first action was to pull a gun on an unarmed Clem who was very obviously trying to get him to be calm. His hand was shaking and it would have been very easy for him to shoot her had Jane not taken the gun from him. And he claims it was for his sick sister in a meandering way, "It's for... uh... my sister.... she's... uh... sick!" Yes. Sooooo very convincing. Then he lies about needing bandages for her during the ambush. I was not aware that sickle cell anemia required bandages. He's so full of it. Plus.. you know... she's standing there a few seconds later with a rifle.
"Actually apparently you don't because it affects ANCESTORS of those races."
Again, read what I said before getting on your high horse to try to correct me (incorrectly). I said 'it's one of the few things ANYONE knows' and the very sentence before, I call that belief a myth, because it also affects Indians, Greeks, Saudi Arabians, Turks, and Sicilians). However, the likelihood of it affecting a white russian woman when it's a genetic disease that tends to be limited to specific areas and races, is VERY unlikley, and is not in any way supported by anything in the game. You know... the thing you said where 'there isnt any info to go off of except for what we have' (whereupon you immediately afterwards go off info that you don't have).
"Why would they?"
Because that is the drug used to treat sickle cell anemia. And would be a good writing tool to show that the sister is actually sick, rather than showing that Arvo is a liar.
"Please stop making guesses that he's a liar because there's nothing support that."
Unlike you, I'm not making guesses with nothing to support it. I'm making guesses based on actual in-game reasons to support that he's a liar. Including the fact that he's caught actively lying seconds before the ambush happens. And his stuttering way of coming up with the 'sick sister' statement in an exxageratedely meandering way, typically seen in movies and literature as signifying 'this person is lying, and is a bad liar at that.'
"You see him in one scene of which he tells you he needs the medicine"
the scene where he's holding a gun on Clementine, then gets disarmed, then makes a meandering statement to say his sister is... uh... sick! Yes, she's ... very sick!'
"in the next he's being forced by his group to mediate the ambush"
You really like making up facts which are not supported from what's shown in game, dont you? There's nothing at all to show that he was being forced by his group to do anything. In fact, the only reason his group would even KNOW about Clem's group is that he told them about Clem's group. Pot calling kettle black, you're the one making unsubstantiated guesses.
"in the rest of the game he won't even talk to you."
Which makes the real bad writing that Mike and Bonnie instantly bond with this person. A person who never talks to any of them, lashes out, causes everyone to start running (which causes the ice to break), yells (which can attract the walkers), gives all these 'glaring looks' at Clem, despite the fact that he's survived for 2 years in a zombie apocalypse - long enough to know if a person is a zombie you shoot them in the head (he glared at her when she was freezing to death even).
Oh yeah, and he shoots Clem, even if she is unarmed. He didnt shoot him for some 'mistaken belief that she killed his living sister, who he had to have noticed was not breathing since he was trying CPR.' He shoots an 11 year old girl, and I think that says more than enough about him to get a valid opinion. Stop defending someone who shoots an 11 year old girl already.
You reply fast, I like that, keeps the debate going.
Again, total supposition not based on any evidence in the game. If you arent show… moreing ANY sort of pain whatsoever, and nothing at all is said, in english or russian in the group, about her being sick, you can't then say 'well maybe she was, based on the complete nothing we have to support it'
Sickle Cell Anemia usually holds the symptoms of pain (Various amounts sometimes very little sometimes a lot, depends on the patient). They also can't do a lot of exercise...We saw her for one scene and then she's dead.
You can't just saw she didn't have a disease either as you don't have any evidence other than "She probably wasn't because we didn't see anything in one scene." even when Sickle Cell Anemia doesn't have a lot of noticeable symptoms.
More supposition. You can also suppose that Arvo is a drug addict who was hiding the drugs so he doesnt have to share it with his band… [view original content]
"So you're saying that Kenny's reasoning behind beating Arvo, which is either, 1.) He was taking his anger out, or 2.) He genuinely thought he was protecting the group, is irrelevant because you think Arvo deserved the abuse? Is that what you mean by the 'chicken or egg' reasoning?"
Chicken and Egg reasoning means it doesnt matter whether Kenny's anger is brought on by other people, or whether other people react to Kenny's anger. The fact still remains that he was correct about Arvo being a threat. Because as soon as he's free, he does something threatening to the group along with Bonnie and Mike (stealing the supplies and truck and leaving a baby and 11 year old to die in the winter cold) - and specifically threatening to Clem (shooting her)
"in my opinion not allowing Clementine to converse with Arvo just so he'd have a reason to shoot her no matter what was bad writing"
By the SAME reasoning (which is also poor reasoning since it relies on an argument of 'it was bad writing') - ANYTHING kenny has done is just a result of bad writing, because 1) you should be able to have a way to calm him down with words, since you and Kenny go back a long way, 2) you should be able to shoot Arvo so Kenny doesnt go down that path (not just shoot him by the house - shoot him AT THE AMBUSH, or let JANE shoot him at the observation deck, which she would have done if every choice you make wasnt to stop her from doing so), and 3) you should have an option at the end to talk Kenny down BEFORE he does anything to Arvo, like 'Katjaa wouldnt want you to do this'.
Again, saying 'so and so did this because of bad writing' is a poor reasoning. Don't protect Arvo's actions because of bad writing excuses, just like you shouldnt protect Kenny's choices because of bad writing excuses. WITHOUT using that excuse, Arvo is the bad guy here. Not Kenny.
"Yes...Which also doesn't make much sense to me either, because Mike has shown to care for Clementine. If Mike was completely selfish he wouldn't even bother bringing Arvo, he'd just take everything for himself and go."
I would have at least respected Mike if, after Arvo shoots Clem, he takes Clem's gun and shoots Arvo because of being horrified at what Arvo did and realizing Arvo is in no way a safer person to be with than Kenny. BEFORE running off with Bonnie.
Even Kenny didn't think Mike would turn on them like that. It just doesnt make any sense. Bonnie says a few hours beforehand that 'they'll take care of your baby, Rebecca' - apparently 'taking care of the baby is 'abandon the baby to die in the winter with no supplies.' And Bonnie's consistently gets Clem and her group in trouble. Even if you tried to save Luke like Bonnie asked, she STILL tries to steal all the supplies. If you want an example of out of character, that is. Arvo isnt out of character - he's just a person willing and ready to kill an 11 year old girl. TWICE.
Either way - Kenny's anger is directed at the people who deserve it.
So you're saying that Kenny's reasoning behind beating Arvo, wh… moreich is either, 1.) He was taking his anger out, or 2.) He genuinely thought he was protecting the group, is irrelevant because you think Arvo deserved the abuse? Is that what you mean by the 'chicken or egg' reasoning?
Saying 'Kenny was right because of bad writing' is a poor argument.
Using bad writing for anything is a poor argument because bad writing is an opinion, and in my opinion not allowing Clementine to converse with Arvo just so he'd have a reason to shoot her no matter what was bad writing. His hatred towards her was for a reason flimsy enough that it could have been resolved with a conversation, and in a game where having conversations with people is a big part, purposely keeping the player from having one with Arvo was bad, I thought. If you don't think so, then you're entitled… [view original content]
Which is why you should stop presuming she had sickle cell anemia, when there's absolutely no reason to assume that. Moreover, it simply doesnt make sense. Sickle Cell Anemia causes CRIPPLING levels of pain, and if you're in that level of pain, is it a good idea to then go across a river, walk for a couple of days, through walker-infested country, to get to the painkillers your sister needs? No. You're making PURE speculation based on nothing except a desire to have Arvo not be a liar. The facts from the game don't support it.
The levels of pain differ for people. Facts support this.
And yet you keep on making info up which is not in the game....
Then you weren't paying attention.
His very first action was to pull a gun on an unarmed Clem who was very obviously trying to get him to be calm. His hand was shaking and it would have been very easy for him to shoot her had Jane not taken the gun from him. And he claims it was for his sick sister in a meandering way, "It's for... uh... my sister.... she's... uh... sick!" Yes. Sooooo very convincing. Then he lies about needing bandages for her during the ambush. I was not aware that sickle cell anemia required bandages. He's so full of it. Plus.. you know... she's standing there a few seconds later with a rifle.
Wouldn't you if you heard a noise behind you. Everyone needs to be cautious. He also said "I don't want to hurt little girl." You know he lied then because his group was forcing him to...He never said he needed bandages for his sister, that was obviously a lie as he admitted it later. Actually she was there with a pistol...Shows how much you remember.
Again, read what I said before getting on your high horse to try to correct me (incorrectly).
lol. No.
I said 'it's one of the few things ANYONE knows' and the very sentence before, I call that belief a myth
You said it mainly affects black people and called that a myth.
However, the likelihood of it affecting a white russian woman when it's a genetic disease that tends to be limited to specific areas and races, is VERY unlikley, and is not in any way supported by anything in the game. You know... the thing you said where 'there isnt any info to go off of except for what we have' (whereupon you immediately afterwards go off info that you don't have).
It's based on your ancestor's race. Is it really that rare to have a white woman from Russia to have ancestors from any of those countries.
Because that is the drug used to treat sickle cell anemia. And would be a good writing tool to show that the sister is actually sick, rather than showing that Arvo is a liar.
But there wasn't even a reason to bring it up.
Unlike you, I'm not making guesses with nothing to support it. I'm making guesses based on actual in-game reasons to support that he's a liar. Including the fact that he's caught actively lying seconds before the ambush happens. And his stuttering way of coming up with the 'sick sister' statement in an exxageratedely meandering way, typically seen in movies and literature as signifying 'this person is lying, and is a bad liar at that.'
But you're not. He lied before the ambush because his group forced him to. He wasn't the leader.
the scene where he's holding a gun on Clementine, then gets disarmed, then makes a meandering statement to say his sister is... uh... sick! Yes, she's ... very sick!'
Again, who doesn't have a gun and in a world where everyone is dangerous. Someone now has you at gunpoint with your own gun and doesn't seem to be nice...You would stutter.
You really like making up facts which are not supported from what's shown in game, dont you? There's nothing at all to show that he was being forced by his group to do anything. In fact, the only reason his group would even KNOW about Clem's group is that he told them about Clem's group. Pot calling kettle black, you're the one making unsubstantiated guesses.
It's fun debating with people who doesn't know a damn thing about a game.
If you head out with medicine and return what are you going to say? "I lost it" no...Because then you would get a punishment. You also apparently haven't read the translated versions of the Russians dialogue.
Oh yeah, and he shoots Clem, even if she is unarmed. He didnt shoot him for some 'mistaken belief that she killed his living sister, who he had to have noticed was not breathing since he was trying CPR.' He shoots an 11 year old girl, and I think that says more than enough about him to get a valid opinion. Stop defending someone who shoots an 11 year old girl already.
He did actually, you just like to go on a long hating Arvo thing. There were many reasons for him to shoot her...I can defend anyone I want. I have defended Arvo, Lilly, Ben, Larry. You can't order me around, there's two sides to every story yet you don't care.
"Sickle Cell Anemia usually holds the symptoms of pain (Various amounts sometimes very little sometimes a lot, depends on the patient). They… more also can't do a lot of exercise...We saw her for one scene and then she's dead."
Which is why you should stop presuming she had sickle cell anemia, when there's absolutely no reason to assume that. Moreover, it simply doesnt make sense. Sickle Cell Anemia causes CRIPPLING levels of pain, and if you're in that level of pain, is it a good idea to then go across a river, walk for a couple of days, through walker-infested country, to get to the painkillers your sister needs? No. You're making PURE speculation based on nothing except a desire to have Arvo not be a liar. The facts from the game don't support it.
"There isn't any info to go off of except what we have."
And yet you keep on making info up which is not in the game....
"Arvo was moving supplies to a location, he didn't want to hurt anyo… [view original content]
I firmly do not at all buy that Arvo is legit evil, that whole decision to shoot Clem was an artificial way to get me to hate Arvo and justify Kenny's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing.
I wouldn't at all trust Kenny, Kenny is an ass toward people who disagree with him and can indirectly get people killed.
Arvo is an all over the place character to start with and it seems like Telltale didn't know what to make of him, and of course, like most characters in this season, you barely get to know him, which is probably one of the reasons why people are so ready to crucify him.
You can disagree all you want but it's not changing my mind.
Wow, you are quite the hypocrite. I am not a Kenny fanatic - he is unstable, if you are viewed as his enemy - but compared to Arvo he's mana… more from heaven. If you are in his group, he is loyal.
You are the only fanatic I see here. They take a character in the game, and have him do things which outright show him to be a disreputable liar, a thief, and an attempted killer of the one person who almost EVERYONE will agree is NOT evil (Clem).... and you defend him and try to make him out to be an innocent little lamb.
Then you bully anyone who points out that Kenny is the one who protects Clem. He treats Arvo like crap because his group were bandits, and letting him live is a mistake (Which it turns out he was RIGHT About).
All this PC bull about Kenny calling him a russkie - it's the friggin zombie apocalypse and you're getting culturally sensitive? Kenny had immense respect for Lee. And for Clem. And for Alvin even, who he barely knew. … [view original content]
Well duh, I guess I'll use your lame arguments to support Kenny in the same way you support Arvo
Apparently you're the one getting the panties in a bunch, actually.
Kenny ever acting mean towards Arvo "was an artificial way to get me to hate Kenny and justify Arvo's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing."
See how stupid that reasoning sounds? That's how dumb your reasoning sounds for Arvo. "Bad writing" can be used for anyone - argue about if a character is good or bad based on what actually happens in the story, not what you think should happen.
Arvo was never 'all over the place' - he consistently lies and is untrustworthy, consistently holds a gun on Clem, and consistently is a potential threat. He never does anything which makes anyone think 'this guy can be a benefit to Clem's group.'
I will continue to disagree all I want, and I don't give a crap if it changes your mind or not - some people are just apologetic for bad people, like you are for Arvo.
Wow, is someone getting their panties in a bunch?
I firmly do not at all buy that Arvo is legit evil, that whole decision to shoot Clem w… moreas an artificial way to get me to hate Arvo and justify Kenny's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing.
I wouldn't at all trust Kenny, Kenny is an ass toward people who disagree with him and can indirectly get people killed.
Arvo is an all over the place character to start with and it seems like Telltale didn't know what to make of him, and of course, like most characters in this season, you barely get to know him, which is probably one of the reasons why people are so ready to crucify him.
You can disagree all you want but it's not changing my mind.
"The levels of pain differ for people. Facts support this."
Again, she wasnt showing ANY sign of pain. She wasnt showing any reason to have you think she had sickle cell anemia AT ALL.
"Then you weren't paying attention."
Actually I'm paying pretty close attention to the fact that you keep making up information about how you feel Arvo was 'trying to escape with his sister' or 'was a victim of the other russians' or 'had a sister who was actually sick despite there being nothing to show that, while he was also saying he needed bandages for her when she doesnt have a wound or anything.'
"Wouldn't you if you heard a noise behind you. Everyone needs to be cautious. He also said "I don't want to hurt little girl.""
Once I see it's an 11 year old unarmed girl with her hands up to show she has no weapons, I WOULDNT KEEP HOLDING THE GUN ON HER like Arvo did.
"You know he lied then because his group was forcing him to..."
His group wasnt forcing him to do anything - he was part of that group, including his sister, who had a rifle as well, and there's nothing to show that he was being forced. It's all in your head. In fact, there is only evidence to show that Arvo told his group about Clem's group, and lied about Clem robbing him (wonder where that medicine went btw - it's not there at the mexican standoff) in order to justify the ambush.
"He never said he needed bandages for his sister, that was obviously a lie as he admitted it later."
So... your argument as to why he isnt a liar is to agree that he admitted that he was lying??
"Actually she was there with a pistol...Shows how much you remember."
She did not have a pistol in her hands. Her hands were UP to show she did not have a pistol. She was showing she was not a danger, and he still held the gun on her. She had the gun in her hands later at the mexican standoff
"Again, who doesn't have a gun and in a world where everyone is dangerous. Someone now has you at gunpoint with your own gun and doesn't seem to be nice...You would stutter."
He wasnt stuttering. He was meandering, avoiding eye contact, trying to think up what to say. The only way they could have made it more clear that he was lying was to have a big sign over him saying 'Arvo has just lied to you.' Trying to think up a lie about what he was doing with the medicine.
"It's fun debating with people who doesn't know a damn thing about a game."
It hasnt been at all fun debating with you, actually. Your lack of knowledge about any damn thing about the game is actually quite frustrating.
"If you head out with medicine and return what are you going to say? "I lost it" no...Because then you would get a punishment. You also apparently haven't read the translated versions of the Russians dialogue."
If you head out with medicine and come back without medicine, where did the medicine go if Clem and Jane DONT take it? Hmmmm I guess Arvo hid the medicine somewhere ELSE and didnt tell his own group, including his sister. What a trustworthy fellow. sarcasm
"I have defended Arvo, Lilly, Ben, Larry. You can't order me around, there's two sides to every story yet you don't care."
Yes, I've talked to people like you before. There are people who defend all manner of unforgiveable bad people. There are Hitler apologists. Terrorist apologists. Charles Manson apologists. Apologists for protestors who bomb abortion clinics. Apologists for protestors who bombed ROTC buildings in the 60s. Apologists for Bin Laden. Apologists for the Fort Wayne murderer, or the Paris murderers. It doesnt make the apologists right.
Btw, I don't think Lilly and Ben should be put in the same camp as Larry or Arvo. Lilly is only a truly bad person when she kills Carley, not when she kills Doug. Killing Doug is an accident, while killing Carley was on purpose and an evil act. Ben, on the other hand, is not a bad person at all - he's just a coward.... which, in the zombie apocalypse, isnt unreasonable. He also thought he was doing the right thing when he was giving supplies to the bandits - he thought he was keeping them from attacking his group by doing that (which to be honest, it was preventing).
Fine though - go ahead defending people who try killing children. Definitely puts you on the high morals side of the argument.
Which is why you should stop presuming she had sickle cell anemia, when there's absolutely no reason to assume that. Moreover, it simply doe… moresnt make sense. Sickle Cell Anemia causes CRIPPLING levels of pain, and if you're in that level of pain, is it a good idea to then go across a river, walk for a couple of days, through walker-infested country, to get to the painkillers your sister needs? No. You're making PURE speculation based on nothing except a desire to have Arvo not be a liar. The facts from the game don't support it.
The levels of pain differ for people. Facts support this.
And yet you keep on making info up which is not in the game....
Then you weren't paying attention.
His very first action was to pull a gun on an unarmed Clem who was very obviously trying to get him to be calm. His hand was shaking and it would have been very easy for him to shoot her had Jane not taken the gun from him. And he claims … [view original content]
Again, she wasnt showing ANY sign of pain. She wasnt showing any reason to have you think she had sickle cell anemia AT ALL.
The pain levels differ to where they couldn't even show sometimes like I said earlier.
Actually I'm paying pretty close attention to the fact that you keep making up information about how you feel Arvo was 'trying to escape with his sister' or 'was a victim of the other russians' or 'had a sister who was actually sick despite there being nothing to show that, while he was also saying he needed bandages for her when she doesnt have a wound or anything.'
Lol. You don't pay attention then.
Once I see it's an 11 year old unarmed girl with her hands up to show she has no weapons, I WOULDNT KEEP HOLDING THE GUN ON HER like Arvo did.
No, it's not like she could have a group nearby ready to disarm and rob...Wait a second.
His group wasnt forcing him to do anything - he was part of that group, including his sister, who had a rifle as well, and there's nothing to show that he was being forced. It's all in your head. In fact, there is only evidence to show that Arvo told his group about Clem's group, and lied about Clem robbing him (wonder where that medicine went btw - it's not there at the mexican standoff) in order to justify the ambush.
Read the translated Russian lines. His sister had a pistol, go look again. There was only one AK, one shotgun and one pistol with the Russians. Oh yes, not like there could be something else that happened, no, I want to see this evidence you have. It seems YOU are just making it up.
So... your argument as to why he isnt a liar is to agree that he admitted that he was lying??
Nope, he lied that one time, which he admitted to.
She did not have a pistol in her hands. Her hands were UP to show she did not have a pistol. She was showing she was not a danger, and he still held the gun on her. She had the gun in her hands later at the mexican standoff
Not Clem his sister.
He wasnt stuttering. He was meandering, avoiding eye contact, trying to think up what to say. The only way they could have made it more clear that he was lying was to have a big sign over him saying 'Arvo has just lied to you.' Trying to think up a lie about what he was doing with the medicine.
Sure he was. Watch it again, he was stuttering from the start.
It hasnt been at all fun debating with you, actually. Your lack of knowledge about any damn thing about the game is actually quite frustrating.
Well, I actually know stuff about the game, you however are just looking for anything to make Arvo look like the bad guy.
If you head out with medicine and come back without medicine, where did the medicine go if Clem and Jane DONT take it? Hmmmm I guess Arvo hid the medicine somewhere ELSE and didnt tell his own group, including his sister. What a trustworthy fellow. sarcasm
Then he would take the punishment and leave that night as If was probably the plan.
Yes, I've talked to people like you before. There are people who defend all manner of unforgiveable bad people. There are Hitler apologists. Terrorist apologists. Charles Manson apologists. Apologists for protestors who bomb abortion clinics. Apologists for protestors who bombed ROTC buildings in the 60s. Apologists for Bin Laden. Apologists for the Fort Wayne murderer, or the Paris murderers. It doesnt make the apologists right.
Lol, apparently defending a video game character is the same as defending a terrorist. Get off your high horse.
Fine though - go ahead defending people who try killing children. Definitely puts you on the high morals side of the argument.
"The levels of pain differ for people. Facts support this."
Again, she wasnt showing ANY sign of pain. She wasnt showing any reason to ha… moreve you think she had sickle cell anemia AT ALL.
"Then you weren't paying attention."
Actually I'm paying pretty close attention to the fact that you keep making up information about how you feel Arvo was 'trying to escape with his sister' or 'was a victim of the other russians' or 'had a sister who was actually sick despite there being nothing to show that, while he was also saying he needed bandages for her when she doesnt have a wound or anything.'
"Wouldn't you if you heard a noise behind you. Everyone needs to be cautious. He also said "I don't want to hurt little girl.""
Once I see it's an 11 year old unarmed girl with her hands up to show she has no weapons, I WOULDNT KEEP HOLDING THE GUN ON HER like Arvo did.
"You know he lied then because his group was forcing him to..."
His grou… [view original content]
"The pain levels differ to where they couldn't even show sometimes like I said earlier."
Except in a story, there are MANY ways to show that she actually is sick (in order to show Arvo was not lying). Holding her side, wincing, moaning in pain, speaking with nnnghs between her speech. ANYTHING. But no, she doesnt show anything to show she's in the slightest bit of pain, or has ever been in pain. If there's no evidence of it, don't assume stuff which the game isnt showing.
"No, it's not like she could have a group nearby ready to disarm and rob...Wait a second."
Again... if he wasnt holding the gun on Clem as he looked like he was about to shoot Clem even when she was telling him to put the gun down, Jane could not have taken his gun to hold on him, now could she?
"His sister had a pistol, go look again."
Well obviously that makes her not a threat at all then. Pistols don't fire bullets after all. sarcasm
"Sure he was. Watch it again, he was stuttering from the start."
Just watched it again. Nope, he wasnt stuttering when talking about his sister. Maybe you should be the one watching it again.
"Well, I actually know stuff about the game,"
All evidence to the contrary.
"you however are just looking for anything to make Arvo look like the bad guy."
Yeah, little things like ambushing the group, holding a gun on Clem, and shooting Clem in the right side of the chest when she was putting her gun down don't make Arvo look like a bad guy. I'm just SEARCHING for things. Suuuure. sarcasm
"Then he would take the punishment and leave that night as If was probably the plan."
Wow, you don't even bother to read what I say before you type out your stuff, do you. He came back without the medicine, regardless of whether you stole from him or not. Which means that if you don't steal from him, he hid the medicine somewhere else, and just blames you ANYWAY. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to get?
"Lol, apparently defending a video game character is the same as defending a terrorist."
Same basic idea - thought experiment. Some people, like you, feel a need to defend even people who are blatantly in the wrong and bad.
Again, she wasnt showing ANY sign of pain. She wasnt showing any reason to have you think she had sickle cell anemia AT ALL.
The pai… moren levels differ to where they couldn't even show sometimes like I said earlier.
Actually I'm paying pretty close attention to the fact that you keep making up information about how you feel Arvo was 'trying to escape with his sister' or 'was a victim of the other russians' or 'had a sister who was actually sick despite there being nothing to show that, while he was also saying he needed bandages for her when she doesnt have a wound or anything.'
Lol. You don't pay attention then.
Once I see it's an 11 year old unarmed girl with her hands up to show she has no weapons, I WOULDNT KEEP HOLDING THE GUN ON HER like Arvo did.
No, it's not like she could have a group nearby ready to disarm and rob...Wait a second.
His group wasnt forcing him to do anything - he was part of that … [view original content]
Except in a story, there are MANY ways to show that she actually is sick (in order to show Arvo was not lying). Holding her side, wincing, moaning in pain, speaking with nnnghs between her speech. ANYTHING. But no, she doesnt show anything to show she's in the slightest bit of pain, or has ever been in pain. If there's no evidence of it, don't assume stuff which the game isnt showing.
Except...You know...She doesn't need to do that. Just because you might have a sting from the pain doesn't mean in everyday life you look like you're suffering and dying.
Again... if he wasnt holding the gun on Clem as he looked like he was about to shoot Clem even when she was telling him to put the gun down, Jane could not have taken his gun to hold on him, now could she?
Jane was planning to do something to him, it's Jane.
Well obviously that makes her not a threat at all then. Pistols don't fire bullets after all. sarcasm
Lol. You're so...Wow...You said she had a rifle not a pistol yet she had a pistol...Yet, no that I proved you wrong you're going to try and make this to where it's about her being a threat.
Just watched it again. Nope, he wasnt stuttering when talking about his sister. Maybe you should be the one watching it again.
I did, he started from the start of the encounter.
All evidence to the contrary.
Lol. K.
Yeah, little things like ambushing the group, holding a gun on Clem, and shooting Clem in the right side of the chest when she was putting her gun down don't make Arvo look like a bad guy. I'm just SEARCHING for things. Suuuure. sarcasm
Forced to, For protection, Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before.
Wow, you don't even bother to read what I say before you type out your stuff, do you. He came back without the medicine, regardless of whether you stole from him or not. Which means that if you don't steal from him, he hid the medicine somewhere else, and just blames you ANYWAY. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to get?
Lol. You don't read do you.
Same basic idea - thought experiment. Some people, like you, feel a need to defend even people who are blatantly in the wrong and bad.
Looks like we got a guy who thinks defending a video game character means you must also defend terrorists and Hitler because you know that makes sense. You must be a fun guy in real life.
"The pain levels differ to where they couldn't even show sometimes like I said earlier."
Except in a story, there are MANY ways to show t… morehat she actually is sick (in order to show Arvo was not lying). Holding her side, wincing, moaning in pain, speaking with nnnghs between her speech. ANYTHING. But no, she doesnt show anything to show she's in the slightest bit of pain, or has ever been in pain. If there's no evidence of it, don't assume stuff which the game isnt showing.
"No, it's not like she could have a group nearby ready to disarm and rob...Wait a second."
Again... if he wasnt holding the gun on Clem as he looked like he was about to shoot Clem even when she was telling him to put the gun down, Jane could not have taken his gun to hold on him, now could she?
"His sister had a pistol, go look again."
Well obviously that makes her not a threat at all then. Pistols don't fire bullets after all. sarcasm
"Sure he was. Watc… [view original content]
"Except...You know...She doesn't need to do that. Just because you might have a sting from the pain doesn't mean in everyday life you look like you're suffering and dying."
Then you can't make the assumption that she's sick, if there's nothing to show that she's sick and the authors don't use any literary device at all to show it as well.
"Jane was planning to do something to him, it's Jane."
How would she take a gun from him if he's not holding a gun on Clem?
"Forced to, For protection, Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before."
I have no idea what the hell you're saying here. You're literally making no sense at all.
"Lol. You don't read do you."
So... your response to my saying 'you don't read what I said' is 'you don't read do you'
"Looks like we got a guy who thinks defending a video game character means you must also defend terrorists and Hitler because you know that makes sense. You must be a fun guy in real life."
Again, you don't seem to understand the concept of a thought experiment. You seem to get off on 'defending the undefendable' - that minimizes any points you might have had, because you're making up info to justify something that's wrong.
"Why because i'm proving you wrong?"
No, because your arguments are nonsensical, and you don't bother reading anything before spouting off.
Except in a story, there are MANY ways to show that she actually is sick (in order to show Arvo was not lying). Holding her side, wincing, m… moreoaning in pain, speaking with nnnghs between her speech. ANYTHING. But no, she doesnt show anything to show she's in the slightest bit of pain, or has ever been in pain. If there's no evidence of it, don't assume stuff which the game isnt showing.
Except...You know...She doesn't need to do that. Just because you might have a sting from the pain doesn't mean in everyday life you look like you're suffering and dying.
Again... if he wasnt holding the gun on Clem as he looked like he was about to shoot Clem even when she was telling him to put the gun down, Jane could not have taken his gun to hold on him, now could she?
Jane was planning to do something to him, it's Jane.
Well obviously that makes her not a threat at all then. Pistols don't fire bullets after all. sarcasm
… [view original content]
Then you can't make the assumption that she's sick, if there's nothing to show that she's sick and the authors don't use any literary device at all to show it as well.
So, if she doesn't look like she's having a seizure then she's not sick.
How would she take a gun from him if he's not holding a gun on Clem?
...Okay...If he puts his gun in a holster then Jane can still take it. Arvo was leaving and Jane attacked.
I have no idea what the hell you're saying here. You're literally making no sense at all.
I was giving reasons why he did the "Horrible" things you say he did.
So... your response to my saying 'you don't read what I said' is 'you don't read do you'
Looks like it.
Again, you don't seem to understand the concept of a thought experiment. You seem to get off on 'defending the undefendable' - that minimizes any points you might have had, because you're making up info to justify something that's wrong.
No, it's because the things you say Arvo did wrong are easily explainable. Plus, I'm not making anything up, you are. Saying that his sister had a rifle, saying that she needs suffer to notice she has pain, Arvo doing everything out of his own free will although evidence disproves that. You my friend are making stuff up.
No, because your arguments are nonsensical, and you don't bother reading anything before spouting off.
Sure I don't. Not like my arguments actually disprove them, no, my arguments are nonsensical because YOU say they are. Lol, guess we're throwing logic out the door.
"Except...You know...She doesn't need to do that. Just because you might have a sting from the pain doesn't mean in everyday life you look l… moreike you're suffering and dying."
Then you can't make the assumption that she's sick, if there's nothing to show that she's sick and the authors don't use any literary device at all to show it as well.
"Jane was planning to do something to him, it's Jane."
How would she take a gun from him if he's not holding a gun on Clem?
"Forced to, For protection, Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before."
I have no idea what the hell you're saying here. You're literally making no sense at all.
"Lol. You don't read do you."
So... your response to my saying 'you don't read what I said' is 'you don't read do you'
"Looks like we got a guy who thinks defending a video game character means you m… [view original content]
"So, if she doesn't look like she's having a seizure then she's not sick."
Uh... no. If she doesnt look like she's in even the slightest bit of discomfort whatsoever, then you shouldnt assume she's sick. It's a story-driven game. Which allows for story-driven plot points and literary tools to show stuff happening. They specifically did not show her having any problems whatsoever. That is not a queue to think 'well... I'm sure that she has a disease which she is not showing at all, and I shall ignore all the evidence which implies that Arvo was lying, including the fact that he's currently JUST set us up for an ambush by lying to us.' You're being willingly ignorant about this for some reason, for the sake of being a troll (someone who makes an argument which most normal people would assume as wrong, for the mere sake of argument - in this case that Arvo is a good person and was not lying).
"..Okay...If he puts his gun in a holster then Jane can still take it. Arvo was leaving and Jane attacked."
1) He had no holster. He took it out of his pocket
2) She wouldnt have had to take it, nor seen that he had a gun, if he wasnt holding it out and aiming it at Clementine. Jane didn't attack - she protected Clementine by disarming him. Remind me never to have you watch my back.
"I was giving reasons why he did the "Horrible" things you say he did."
Actually, no you didnt give reasons. Your sentence made no sense whatsoever. Here's what you said:
'Forced to, For protection, Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before.' - This makes no sense and your english teacher would weep if she read it. Either that, or English is not your primary language.
"No, it's because the things you say Arvo did wrong are easily explainable. Plus, I'm not making anything up, you are. Saying that his sister had a rifle, saying that she needs suffer to notice she has pain, Arvo doing everything out of his own free will although evidence disproves that. You my friend are making stuff up."
Uh... no, I'm not making anything up. You're the one saying his sister is sick, when she doesnt show ANY sort of sign of sickness. You're the one saying Arvo is being controlled by the other russians, when one of the other russians is his sister, and they wouldnt have even known about Clem's group if not for Arvo, and he set them up for an ambush, and LIED about the theft.
"Not like my arguments actually disprove them, no, my arguments are nonsensical because YOU say they are."
No... your arguments are nonsensical because you don't even counter what I'm saying with anything that happened in the game. You just make up conjecture, or make up a snide remark, followed by 'lol ok.' It's frustrating to 'argue' with you because you're not a very smart person when it comes to arguing, and don't actually read what the other person is saying.... then say 'you don't read what I'm saying' after I write a huge statement directly countering each thing you say, sentence by sentence.
"Lol, guess we're throwing logic out the door."
There you go again with the LOL, what a troll you are. Believe me, logic and you have never even been in the same room for it to be thrown out the door.
Then you can't make the assumption that she's sick, if there's nothing to show that she's sick and the authors don't use any literary device… more at all to show it as well.
So, if she doesn't look like she's having a seizure then she's not sick.
How would she take a gun from him if he's not holding a gun on Clem?
...Okay...If he puts his gun in a holster then Jane can still take it. Arvo was leaving and Jane attacked.
I have no idea what the hell you're saying here. You're literally making no sense at all.
I was giving reasons why he did the "Horrible" things you say he did.
So... your response to my saying 'you don't read what I said' is 'you don't read do you'
Looks like it.
Again, you don't seem to understand the concept of a thought experiment. You seem to get off on 'defending the undefendable' - that minimizes any points you might have had, because you're making up info to justify somet… [view original content]
"Everyone, put your guns down"
I have evidence, and I also have evidence that Kenny can be a real piece of shit.
You Kenny fanatics ar… moree all just exaggerating.
If Arvo was the complete "spawn of the devil" like you fanatics keep claiming, then he would have shot Clem without hesitation on the observation deck, but he doesn't.
You know, he had to have seen that his sister was no longer breathing when he was trying to do CPR. How exactly would a person not breathing have been able to start coming over to Clementine and AJ? Has Arvo been living in a cave for the last two years of the zombie apocalypse to not figure out his sister had died and was coming at Clementine?
I wish Kenny hadnt taken him off of his sister so she could have bitten his stupid glasses-wearing face off.
then he would have shot Clem without hesitation on the observation deck, but he doesn't.
We aren't talking about that: "Arvo is pure… more evil!", Arvo shot Clementine because he thought that she killed his sister. We all don't like Arvo because of his mysterious attitude, and probably his 'plans' that might be revealed in season 3.
Uh... no. If she doesnt look like she's in even the slightest bit of discomfort whatsoever, then you shouldnt assume she's sick. It's a story-driven game. Which allows for story-driven plot points and literary tools to show stuff happening. They specifically did not show her having any problems whatsoever. That is not a queue to think 'well... I'm sure that she has a disease which she is not showing at all, and I shall ignore all the evidence which implies that Arvo was lying, including the fact that he's currently JUST set us up for an ambush by lying to us
You expect in the 3-5 minutes we see her to be screaming in pain or wiggling around? No. Telltale just came inset up and ambush and left. If they actually cared they probably would have but they gave zero shits about the Russians only Arvo.
You're being willingly ignorant about this for some reason, for the sake of being a troll (someone who makes an argument which most normal people would assume as wrong, for the mere sake of argument - in this case that Arvo is a good person and was not lying).
Just because I don't agree with you i'm a troll. Sure, okay buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night. I also like how you gave me the definition of troll... Lol.
1) He had no holster. He took it out of his pocket
Then he puts it in his pocket, but why would he have to, he was leaving.
2) She wouldnt have had to take it, nor seen that he had a gun, if he wasnt holding it out and aiming it at Clementine. Jane didn't attack - she protected Clementine by disarming him. Remind me never to have you watch my back.
He was leaving, she had no reason to disarm him.
Oh and don't worry I wouldn't watch your back.
This makes no sense and your english teacher would weep if she read it. Either that, or English is not your primary language.
Lol, it makes sense you're just being willingly ignorant to ignore it, alright Mr.Grammar, does this making it better?
Forced to
For protection
Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before
Uh... no, I'm not making anything up. You're the one saying his sister is sick, when she doesnt show ANY sort of sign of sickness. You're the one saying Arvo is being controlled by the other russians, when one of the other russians is his sister, and they wouldnt have even known about Clem's group if not for Arvo, and he set them up for an ambush, and LIED about the theft.
His sister is sick and let me remind you that YOU were the one who brought up Sickle Cell Anemia. You also act like his sister was the only Russian, no, not like there were two other big Russians with large weapons there. Arvo was forced by the other Russians, you also don't know what he said about the theft, seems like you're making stuff up.
No... your arguments are nonsensical because you don't even counter what I'm saying with anything that happened in the game. You just make up conjecture, or make up a snide remark, followed by 'lol ok.'
I do and I respond with Lol K because you made zero sense and you make me laugh.
It's frustrating to 'argue' with you because you're not a very smart person when it comes to arguing, and don't actually read what the other person is saying.... then say 'you don't read what I'm saying' after I write a huge statement directly countering each thing you say, sentence by sentence.
Oh I'm smart and I'm winning this argument. I read exactly what you say but it doesn't make sense, I respond with a good counterargument and yet you decide that it was good, I don't understand it. Lol, you should read what you write, it's not even a counter argument.
There you go again with the LOL, what a troll you are.
Wonder how long with would take to get you to a point to where you're losing so much you decide to call me a troll.
Believe me, logic and you have never even been in the same room for it to be thrown out the door.
Lol, now the insults, how about you try and stay on topic and actually debate.
"So, if she doesn't look like she's having a seizure then she's not sick."
Uh... no. If she doesnt look like she's in even the slightest… more bit of discomfort whatsoever, then you shouldnt assume she's sick. It's a story-driven game. Which allows for story-driven plot points and literary tools to show stuff happening. They specifically did not show her having any problems whatsoever. That is not a queue to think 'well... I'm sure that she has a disease which she is not showing at all, and I shall ignore all the evidence which implies that Arvo was lying, including the fact that he's currently JUST set us up for an ambush by lying to us.' You're being willingly ignorant about this for some reason, for the sake of being a troll (someone who makes an argument which most normal people would assume as wrong, for the mere sake of argument - in this case that Arvo is a good person and was not lying).
"..Okay...If he puts his gun in a holster th… [view original content]
Well duh, I guess I'll use your lame arguments to support Kenny in the same way you support Arvo
Apparently you're the one getting the pa… morenties in a bunch, actually.
Kenny ever acting mean towards Arvo "was an artificial way to get me to hate Kenny and justify Arvo's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing."
See how stupid that reasoning sounds? That's how dumb your reasoning sounds for Arvo. "Bad writing" can be used for anyone - argue about if a character is good or bad based on what actually happens in the story, not what you think should happen.
Arvo was never 'all over the place' - he consistently lies and is untrustworthy, consistently holds a gun on Clem, and consistently is a potential threat. He never does anything which makes anyone think 'this guy can be a benefit to Clem's group.'
I will continue to disagree all I want, and I don't give a crap if it changes your mind or not - some people are just apologetic for bad people, like you are for Arvo.
Kenny was mean to Luke once or twice, but mostly mean to Nick, not Luke.
With Luke, he pretty much had good reason to be pissed off at Luke, since he decided to have sex with Jane instead of keeping a lookout for Walkers, which is what results in the walkers getting the drop on them, which is what results in Sarah's death.
That being said, Luke isnt a bad person at all, and is a better person than Kenny is... he's heroic, but he's not a particularly good leader, and pretty naive about some stuff. Like being all shocked that Clementine killed a dog which tried to kill her. Luke still died like a hero though, and I think he's a heroic person who made a few mistakes. Pete was probably the best person in that group, and the best leader.
Cabin Group:
Carlos - a hypocrite, and heartless, and hopelessly naive about Sarah (although this last part is understandable, since he's her father)
Sarah - autistic and incapable of surviving on her own, and unfortunately she would have gotten other people killed. Obviously not leader material
Luke - naive, doesnt think things through, doesnt quite get that sometimes people will need to be ruthless towards threats (like Carver, and like Arvo later on... and heck, like the dog that attacked Clem). If he wised up, he might be good leadership material. But by his death, he hadnt unfortunately, although he did die heroically saving Clem.
Nick - hot-headed, doesnt think things through at all. Almost killed Clem twice. Doesnt inspire confidence. Caused Matthew's death for no reason, because he shoots first and thinks second. Did not listen to Luke. Decided to get drunk instead of getting back to the cabin with Clem.
Rebecca - overstressed because of her pregnancy. Hot headed. I just don't see her as leadership mentality in general.
Alvin - Too much of a pushover and a follower, rather than a leader. That being said, if he had gotten more of a backbone in the group, he could have been a good leader. Died heroically.
Pete - level headed and pragmatic, but not cold-hearted. Good fighter. Willing to sacrifice for others. Others respect him. The one example of a good leader in the Season 2 game. Even moreso than Clem, who has all these qualities as well but has the con of her being an 11 year old girl.
Walter's group:
Kenny - hot-headed and stubborn. Stubbornness and anger are his main problems, actually. The anger is probably fine for a leader in the apocalypse, but the stubbornness is not. But willing to sacrifice for others. VERY good fighter. Very loyal to people IN his group when they're on the same page. Willing to apologize after his blow-ups, but he has a LOT of blowups. Prone to jumping to conclusions, but has good instincts about people. Not a particularly good leader, but others initially look to him for answers. Until he starts letting his rage get to him and starts scaring others in the group (it didnt happen in his group with Walter - only happened when the messed up additions from the cabin group and the lowes group got involved)
Walter - good leader mentality, actually. Nurturing. Caring of others. Others respect him. Insightful and smart. Not a 'great' fighter necessarily, though you don't know for sure since he didnt do much fighting. He was a good enough shot to shoot the zombie on Nick without hitting Nick, though. Not ruthless enough though, and that wound up hurting by trusting people like Bonnie, who then brought Carver, which resulted in his death by Carver.
Matthew - who knows - he was on screen for like 3 seconds. Might have been good leadership material though.
Sarita - seems like a lot more of a follower than a leader, but she was a good calming influence on Kenny, which helped with one of Kenny's two main failings - his anger issues.
Lowes invitees:
Bonnie - Basically a traitor. Every group she's been in has wound up regretting it. Leland's group. Carver's group. Clem's group. She makes stupid choices, holds grudges, doesnt think things through, and lays everything on the shoulders of an 11 year old girl. Puts others in dangerous situations time and time again out of her own thoughtlessness (especially Clem, who she put or asked to put in a dangerous situation that she could have done herself THREE times in the short time they've known each other). Also, repays kindness with treachery. Has a total blindness to bad people, like Carver. Even when told point blank that Carver killed Reggie. And then later people like Arvo. Says she'll protect the baby, then steals all the supplies while leaving the baby behind. Ingrate.
Reggie - nice person, but not a leader.
Jane - Good survival skills. Good fighter. Pragmatic. But COLD-hearted. Does not inspire others to have any confidence in her, or willingness to follow her, and she doesnt want them to anyway. Willing to abandon others as soon as the odds are slightly against them. Also.... her plans are insane and heartless. TERRIBLE leader, because to be a leader you need to want to have other people around.
Mike - not a leader mentality. Very much a follower mentality. Overall, not a bad person, but easily coerced or convinced by others. Bad judge of character of others, but he himself is a good person until he gets scared, then he does stuff without really thinking it through.
Clementine - Excellent leadership skills. Others do tend to respect her, which is why everyone keeps putting everything on her shoulders despite her being an 11 year old girl. Good fighting skills. BRAVERY in spades. Willing to be ruthless, but also willing to show compassion. Willing to trust others, and she in turn inspires trust in others toward her. Badass and at the same time doesnt have anger issues. Gives others hope for the future, both because of her capability and her not having had this world completely kill her sense of hope - yet. Negative - her age. Might not be a good leader now, but ONLY because of her age... which would understandably make others not willing to follow her. Give her a few years and she'd be an excellent leader, possibly better than even Lee (a good leader) was, because she doesnt have the whole 'I was a convicted murderer secret' thing.
When he was horrible to Luke in episode 2 for no reason.
don't recall anything like that happening in episode 2 even though i've played it over 30 times. Mind refreshing my memory?
"You expect in the 3-5 minutes we see her to be screaming in pain or wiggling around?"
No, Just show even the slightest evidence that she had ANY pain whatsoever. Or was in any way sick. Or injured. In ANY slight way. She wasnt. So stop making an assumption that she was.
"Just because I don't agree with you i'm a troll. Sure, okay buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night. I also like how you gave me the definition of troll... Lol."
No, you're not a troll because you disagree. You're a troll because you're snide and condescending, engage only in ad hominem arguments, and already flat out said that you always defend the people who others consider the bad guys. Obviously to get a rise out of other people. Not to mention the joy you seem to get at trying to frustrate people with your ignorant comments with the stupid 'lol' as if you actually think you're humorous.
"His sister is sick and let me remind you that YOU were the one who brought up Sickle Cell Anemia."
Actually I wasnt the one who brought up sickle cell anemia. Read again. Someone else did, and I responded to that. Then you responded without bothering to pay attention to the thread, which I'm beginning to see if your defining characteristic.
"You also act like his sister was the only Russian, no, not like there were two other big Russians with large weapons there."
Yeah, it's two on two. Yet you're making the assumption that he wasnt willingly going along with them without even the slightest bit of evidence
"Arvo was forced by the other Russians,"
No evidence that he was forced at all. Just as likely that he actually told the other russians that they should ambush Clem's group.
"you also don't know what he said about the theft,"
What the hell are you talking about? Of course I know what he said about the theft. He TELLS Clem's group that he said Clem stole from him! Did you miss that part of the game?
"seems like you're making stuff up."
You're the only one seeming to make stuff up, not me.
"I do and I respond with Lol K because you made zero sense and you make me laugh."
Wow... I didnt think you would agree when I said 'you just make up conjecture.' You respond with Lol K because you're childish and unable to actually debate something in a mature fashion. I doubt I make you laugh - I think you're getting pissed off, in fact, but being a little troll, you want to try to get more of a rise out of me. It's sort of pathetic, actually.
"Oh I'm smart and I'm winning this argument."
When you need to announce that you're winning an argument, without having actually made any winning points, it's a pretty clear proof that you're not winning the argument.
"I read exactly what you say but it doesn't make sense, I respond with a good counterargument"
You havent made any counterarguments, except to make up 'facts' which don't actually happen in the game, then say 'therefore Arvo is not a bad person.'
"Wonder how long with would take to get you to a point to where you're losing so much you decide to call me a troll."
Probably about the same amount of time it took for you to respond to every pertinent point I made with an Lol k since you don't actually know how to support your invalid arguments.
Uh... no. If she doesnt look like she's in even the slightest bit of discomfort whatsoever, then you shouldnt assume she's sick. It's a stor… morey-driven game. Which allows for story-driven plot points and literary tools to show stuff happening. They specifically did not show her having any problems whatsoever. That is not a queue to think 'well... I'm sure that she has a disease which she is not showing at all, and I shall ignore all the evidence which implies that Arvo was lying, including the fact that he's currently JUST set us up for an ambush by lying to us
You expect in the 3-5 minutes we see her to be screaming in pain or wiggling around? No. Telltale just came inset up and ambush and left. If they actually cared they probably would have but they gave zero shits about the Russians only Arvo.
You're being willingly ignorant about this for some reason, for the sake of being a troll (someone who makes an argument which most norm… [view original content]
Uh... no. If she doesnt look like she's in even the slightest bit of discomfort whatsoever, then you shouldnt assume she's sick. It's a stor… morey-driven game. Which allows for story-driven plot points and literary tools to show stuff happening. They specifically did not show her having any problems whatsoever. That is not a queue to think 'well... I'm sure that she has a disease which she is not showing at all, and I shall ignore all the evidence which implies that Arvo was lying, including the fact that he's currently JUST set us up for an ambush by lying to us
You expect in the 3-5 minutes we see her to be screaming in pain or wiggling around? No. Telltale just came inset up and ambush and left. If they actually cared they probably would have but they gave zero shits about the Russians only Arvo.
You're being willingly ignorant about this for some reason, for the sake of being a troll (someone who makes an argument which most norm… [view original content]
"that whole decision to shoot Clem was an artificial way to get me to hate Arvo and justify Kenny's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing."
"Arvo is an all over the place character to start with and it seems like Telltale didn't know what to make of him, and of course, like most characters in this season, you barely get to know him, which is probably one of the reasons why people are so ready to crucify him."
Don't need to put words in your mouth. All I've said what saying that someone is not a bad person simply because whenver he does something bad, that it's 'bad writing' is a poor argument.
Whatever, I done with your childish temper tantrums, besides I didn't say anything about Arvo being beneficial, thanks for putting words in my mouth,
Toxic.
No, Just show even the slightest evidence that she had ANY pain whatsoever. Or was in any way sick. Or injured. In ANY slight way. She wasnt. So stop making an assumption that she was.
Stop making the assumption she isn't.
No, you're not a troll because you disagree. You're a troll because you're snide and condescending, engage only in ad hominem arguments, and already flat out said that you always defend the people who others consider the bad guys
Buddy, that's called my attitude not me being a troll. I defend people because I want to and understand their viewpoints not because they're the bad guys.
Obviously to get a rise out of other people. Not to mention the joy you seem to get at trying to frustrate people with your ignorant comments with the stupid 'lol' as if you actually think you're humorous.
No, you commented to me, when you did that you caused this. I respond with lol because you're a funny person.
Actually I wasnt the one who brought up sickle cell anemia. Read again. Someone else did, and I responded to that. Then you responded without bothering to pay attention to the thread, which I'm beginning to see if your defining characteristic.
Yet, you brought it up to me. This thread and that comment was from months ago, you act like I made it yesterday.
Yeah, it's two on two. Yet you're making the assumption that he wasnt willingly going along with them without even the slightest bit of evidence
You're making the assumption that a crippled kid and a sick woman has any say against two large men with guns.
No evidence that he was forced at all. Just as likely that he actually told the other russians that they should ambush Clem's group.
Have you even read the damn translated Russian dialogue yet?
What the hell are you talking about? Of course I know what he said about the theft. He TELLS Clem's group that he said Clem stole from him! Did you miss that part of the game?
Yes because we were there when Arvo returned to his group and told them. No.
You're the only one seeming to make stuff up, not me
It's you.
You respond with Lol K because you're childish and unable to actually debate something in a mature fashion. I doubt I make you laugh - I think you're getting pissed off, in fact, but being a little troll, you want to try to get more of a rise out of me. It's sort of pathetic, actually.
Wow, making assumptions about me now. Lol, I'm not angry, in the slightest actually, it's funny that you think it. You seem to not know a thing about the game and it's funny seeing you make up points and connect those made up points together then say I'm making stuff up. Oh, but please, keep with the insults.
When you need to announce that you're winning an argument, without having actually made any winning points, it's a pretty clear proof that you're not winning the argument.
Well, when you say I'm not I say I am...It's not like at the end of my post I said "I'm winning".
You havent made any counterarguments, except to make up 'facts' which don't actually happen in the game, then say 'therefore Arvo is not a bad person.'
I have made tons, you just are refusing to acknowledge them. I also haven't said Arvo is a good person. I also don't make up facts.
Probably about the same amount of time it took for you to respond to every pertinent point I made with an Lol k since you don't actually know how to support your invalid arguments.
Lol, K. My arguments are valid, I wasn't here first insulting you, that was you.
He says as he actively is and has been insulting for the past several comments.
Sure I have.
LOL. Back atcha.
There you go, now you're getting into the spirit. However, you forgot the K after the lol, you need to improve but I'm seeing you are reaching a good point.
"You expect in the 3-5 minutes we see her to be screaming in pain or wiggling around?"
No, Just show even the slightest evidence that she… more had ANY pain whatsoever. Or was in any way sick. Or injured. In ANY slight way. She wasnt. So stop making an assumption that she was.
"Just because I don't agree with you i'm a troll. Sure, okay buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night. I also like how you gave me the definition of troll... Lol."
No, you're not a troll because you disagree. You're a troll because you're snide and condescending, engage only in ad hominem arguments, and already flat out said that you always defend the people who others consider the bad guys. Obviously to get a rise out of other people. Not to mention the joy you seem to get at trying to frustrate people with your ignorant comments with the stupid 'lol' as if you actually think you're humorous.
"His sister is sick and let me remind you that YOU were the one who b… [view original content]
Comments
.
You seriously strike me as the type of person who would watch a terrorist cut off someone's head, then make an excuse for why the terrorist did that while sympathizing with the terrorist. Then protests the waterboarding of that terrorist if he's captured, calling those people who did that monsters.
I do hate Arvo. And Kenny is unbalanced, but he was RIGHT. And he does always think of the people he's protecting FIRST. That's the psychology behind Kenny. He will do vicious things to people he imprints as 'the enemy' - but for the people he protects, he will do anything that's necessary to protect them. Especially AJ, Clem, and Sarita. That doesnt make him evil. He's actually very willing to sacrifice his own life to save someone else he feels is worthy of saving. Someone he thinks is innocent. Like Clem and AJ. He even tries to sacrifice himself to save BEN of all people (after Ben had his blowout and Ken possibly saw that Ben was suffering as much as the rest of them), or sacrifices himself to save Christa - depending on which choices you made in Season 1.
It should be noted, though, that he's very intolerant WHENEVER you disagree with him at all, but he tends to snap back from that to being a good person, and usually apologizes afterwards. He realizes his faults, which are many. But he's practical about it - he doesnt have time to go to therapy for his anger issues, because all the therapists have been eaten by zombies. That doesnt ignore the fact that Kenny winds up being right. Arvo lied about his sister being 'sick' - he's possibly even a druggie. Arvo's FIRST instinct upon seeing Clementine, unarmed, at the Observation Tower, is to point a gun at her, even when she's talking calmly to him, and he NEVER stops pointing the gun from her head. Arvo lies about Clem robbing him, even if Clem did not rob him. Arvo threatens the group by screaming up a storm in the transformer area, which can call walkers to their location. Arvo shoots Clem no matter what Clem does. Arvo shoots Clem even if you were nice to Arvo the entire time, put your gun down, and ask to go with them.
Arvo. Is. Evil. (and unbalanced, and a liar, and angry, and I wish Kenny had not grabbed him as a shield when he was giving mouth to mouth to his dead sister so that his sister could have bitten his face off instead)
Kenny is just stubborn and unbalanced when angry - not evil. He even recognizes this fact, so he's not even deluded.
Think of Kenny like... Rick from the TV show. Willing to be completely vicious to protect those in his group. And Rick is, now, like Shane was back in season 2. Just without the rapey elements.
The difference being is that Arvo didn't cut off someone's head to warrant the kind of shit he was getting from Kenny and Kenny fanatics, keep on with the whole Arvo is Satan schlock cause I'm not changing my mind that Kenny went way over the line in treating Arvo like shit with beating him up and using racist slurs.
All this bullying from you Kenny fanatics is toxic.
Meh. Kenny wasn't hurting Arvo to protect the group though. He just wanted to take his anger out on him and was using 'I was protecting you guys' as an excuse. I made a thread about Arvo a while ago and went into greater detail about this, but the first thing Kenny says to Arvo once he's tied up and can't hurt anyone is, "Just give me a reason." Kenny was beating Arvo just because he wanted to do it.
How is using xenophobic slurs and making fun of him for not knowing English 'protecting' the group? What purpose does that possibly serve other than to make Arvo hate the group even more? Arvo was tied up and had to lead them to his place regardless of if Kenny was constantly beating him or not, abusing him was either going to make no difference, or more likely, make things even worse. Kenny isn't evil, but beating Arvo was pretty much unneeded.
And as for if Kenny was right about Arvo, technically in game, he was. But the writing behind it was sloppy and seems to give off the message that Kenny can be as cruel as he wants to be as long as the person he's abusing turns out to be an even bigger asshole. They made Arvo a plot-device to do this and that doesn't sit right with me.
I didnt see anything to show that she was sick - especially not when she was standing all healthy and pointing a gun at the group.
And if she was sick, why was he hiding the medicine in the trash, instead of keeping it in the group where his 'sick sister' would need it? (in the unlikely, but minimally possible, scenario that a white russian woman has a genetic disease which primarily tends to affect, genetically, black people, indian people, and people from the countries of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Greece)
Illnesses where one doesn't have to be bedridden all the time but still need medication for exist.
I have a theory that Arvo was trying to run away from his group with his sister and was stashing the medicine there to use later, but that's just a headcanon.
Telltale was never good with being medically accurate. .-.
Wow, you are quite the hypocrite. I am not a Kenny fanatic - he is unstable, if you are viewed as his enemy - but compared to Arvo he's mana from heaven. If you are in his group, he is loyal.
You are the only fanatic I see here. They take a character in the game, and have him do things which outright show him to be a disreputable liar, a thief, and an attempted killer of the one person who almost EVERYONE will agree is NOT evil (Clem).... and you defend him and try to make him out to be an innocent little lamb.
Then you bully anyone who points out that Kenny is the one who protects Clem. He treats Arvo like crap because his group were bandits, and letting him live is a mistake (Which it turns out he was RIGHT About).
All this PC bull about Kenny calling him a russkie - it's the friggin zombie apocalypse and you're getting culturally sensitive? Kenny had immense respect for Lee. And for Clem. And for Alvin even, who he barely knew. Hardly seems that he's racist. He just hates people who are parts of groups who point WEAPONS AT HIM AND HIS GROUP.
Duh.
Chicken or the egg on that reasoning.
Does Kenny have anger issues, and uses violence against people who are bad as an outlet? Or do people who are bad bring out his anger? Either way - Kenny's anger is directed at the people who deserve it, even if he goes overboard CONSTANTLY. Arvo was a threat the entire time, even when tied up, because as soon as he was given the chance, you see what he did.
Saying 'Kenny was right because of bad writing' is a poor argument. Everything you say about Kenny being bad, I can then also say 'nah, he doesnt have anger issues, it's just bad writing'. Take the writing for what it is, then ACCEPT that Arvo is ultimately a bad person.
Heck, I would say the REAL bad writing was Jane disliking Kenny, when she's a LOT like Kenny, but to an extreme. Kenny doesnt trust outsiders unless they're taken into his group. Jane doesnt like outsiders, and doesnt want to be in a group so never has ANYONE she trusts.
Btw, does anyone realize that Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo were stealing all the supplies, including supplies which were needed for the completely innocent BABY? Anyone? You know... the baby?
"Illnesses where one doesn't have to be bedridden all the time but still need medication for exist."
You're making a lot of supposition without any evidence in support for Arvo's sister's 'sickness' in order to make a defense for Arvo. Based on what you actually SEE, the evidence is against Arvo being truthful.
"I have a theory that Arvo was trying to run away from his group with his sister and was stashing the medicine there to use later, but that's just a headcanon."
Again, you're making suppositions, which are in no way based on any actual evidence from what you see in the game. Based on what is seen in the game, Arvo was lying - and hiding medicine (mainly painkillers) from your own group increases the likelihood that he uses it for himself and didnt want his own group to know about it. It's at least a lot more likely - based on the fact that he was hiding it, rather than keeping it in the group, when he never says anything about his own group or wanting to leave it.
"Telltale was never good with being medically accurate. .-."
Sickle Cell Anemia is widely seen as a genetic disease which mainly affects black people (this is inaccurate, as it also affects Indians and people from Greek and Turkish, and Siciilian and Arab descent) - but even assuming a -genetic- disease somehow found its way into the decidedly white russian sister, there are a ton of other more applicable diseases which could be used. Plus NOTHIGN About sickle cell anemia was ever mentioned in the game. At all. It's again more supposition without any supported evidence, in an attempt to make an unlikeable character 'less of a liar'
You can be sick and be able to walk and hold a gun. Not every disease leaves you crippled.
Maybe the group was moving to a better location, or that Arvo was stealing it so his sister and him could escape.
Who knows?
Telltale isn't medical experts. :P
"You can be sick and be able to walk and hold a gun. Not every disease leaves you crippled."
Again, total supposition not based on any evidence in the game. If you arent showing ANY sort of pain whatsoever, and nothing at all is said, in english or russian in the group, about her being sick, you can't then say 'well maybe she was, based on the complete nothing we have to support it'
"Maybe the group was moving to a better location, or that Arvo was stealing it so his sister and him could escape."
More supposition. You can also suppose that Arvo is a drug addict who was hiding the drugs so he doesnt have to share it with his bandit friends. You can also make a supposition that it was Arvo's idea to ambush the group. Instead, base your reasoning on stuff that actually occurs IN THE GAME, rather than in imagination.
"Telltale isn't medical experts. :P"
1) Telltale would know that Sickle Cell Anemia mainly affects black people (because that's the myth - even though it also affects indians, greeks, saudi arabians, turks, and sicilians). It's one of the few things ANYONE knows about Sickle Cell Anemia
2) In the game, no one EVER mentions Sickle Cell Anemia. At all. They don't even mention hydroxycarbamide, which would at least imply that she has sickle cell anemia. Please - stop making suppositions without evidence to make your point about Arvo not being a liar. Everything points to him BEING a liar.
So you're saying that Kenny's reasoning behind beating Arvo, which is either, 1.) He was taking his anger out, or 2.) He genuinely thought he was protecting the group, is irrelevant because you think Arvo deserved the abuse? Is that what you mean by the 'chicken or egg' reasoning?
Using bad writing for anything is a poor argument because bad writing is an opinion, and in my opinion not allowing Clementine to converse with Arvo just so he'd have a reason to shoot her no matter what was bad writing. His hatred towards her was for a reason flimsy enough that it could have been resolved with a conversation, and in a game where having conversations with people is a big part, purposely keeping the player from having one with Arvo was bad, I thought. If you don't think so, then you're entitled to that.
Yes...Which also doesn't make much sense to me either, because Mike has shown to care for Clementine. If Mike was completely selfish he wouldn't even bother bringing Arvo, he'd just take everything for himself and go. But he cared enough for Arvo to take him away from Kenny, so if characterization was consistent he should care enough for Clem to leave some food for her. As for Bonnie, even if she's mad at Clem for 'getting Luke killed', she should know that leaving AJ's caretakers with no food means they'll die and he'll have nobody to watch him, and she has shown to care for the baby. So them taking every single thing really seems out of character.
You reply fast, I like that, keeps the debate going.
Sickle Cell Anemia usually holds the symptoms of pain (Various amounts sometimes very little sometimes a lot, depends on the patient). They also can't do a lot of exercise...We saw her for one scene and then she's dead.
You can't just saw she didn't have a disease either as you don't have any evidence other than "She probably wasn't because we didn't see anything in one scene." even when Sickle Cell Anemia doesn't have a lot of noticeable symptoms.
There isn't any info to go off of except what we have. Arvo was moving supplies to a location, he didn't want to hurt anyone, and he claims it was for his sick sister. During the actual gunfight he also wants to calm things down and it shows he has no control over what's happening.
You should let us actually guess as Telltale didn't provide any evidence to support your claim but there is evidence to support mine.
Actually apparently you don't because it affects ANCESTORS of those races.
Why would they?
Please stop making guesses that he's a liar because there's nothing support that.
You see him in one scene of which he tells you he needs the medicine, in the next he's being forced by his group to mediate the ambush, in the rest of the game he won't even talk to you.
"Sickle Cell Anemia usually holds the symptoms of pain (Various amounts sometimes very little sometimes a lot, depends on the patient). They also can't do a lot of exercise...We saw her for one scene and then she's dead."
Which is why you should stop presuming she had sickle cell anemia, when there's absolutely no reason to assume that. Moreover, it simply doesnt make sense. Sickle Cell Anemia causes CRIPPLING levels of pain, and if you're in that level of pain, is it a good idea to then go across a river, walk for a couple of days, through walker-infested country, to get to the painkillers your sister needs? No. You're making PURE speculation based on nothing except a desire to have Arvo not be a liar. The facts from the game don't support it.
"There isn't any info to go off of except what we have."
And yet you keep on making info up which is not in the game....
"Arvo was moving supplies to a location, he didn't want to hurt anyone, and he claims it was for his sick sister. "
His very first action was to pull a gun on an unarmed Clem who was very obviously trying to get him to be calm. His hand was shaking and it would have been very easy for him to shoot her had Jane not taken the gun from him. And he claims it was for his sick sister in a meandering way, "It's for... uh... my sister.... she's... uh... sick!" Yes. Sooooo very convincing. Then he lies about needing bandages for her during the ambush. I was not aware that sickle cell anemia required bandages. He's so full of it. Plus.. you know... she's standing there a few seconds later with a rifle.
"Actually apparently you don't because it affects ANCESTORS of those races."
Again, read what I said before getting on your high horse to try to correct me (incorrectly). I said 'it's one of the few things ANYONE knows' and the very sentence before, I call that belief a myth, because it also affects Indians, Greeks, Saudi Arabians, Turks, and Sicilians). However, the likelihood of it affecting a white russian woman when it's a genetic disease that tends to be limited to specific areas and races, is VERY unlikley, and is not in any way supported by anything in the game. You know... the thing you said where 'there isnt any info to go off of except for what we have' (whereupon you immediately afterwards go off info that you don't have).
"Why would they?"
Because that is the drug used to treat sickle cell anemia. And would be a good writing tool to show that the sister is actually sick, rather than showing that Arvo is a liar.
"Please stop making guesses that he's a liar because there's nothing support that."
Unlike you, I'm not making guesses with nothing to support it. I'm making guesses based on actual in-game reasons to support that he's a liar. Including the fact that he's caught actively lying seconds before the ambush happens. And his stuttering way of coming up with the 'sick sister' statement in an exxageratedely meandering way, typically seen in movies and literature as signifying 'this person is lying, and is a bad liar at that.'
"You see him in one scene of which he tells you he needs the medicine"
the scene where he's holding a gun on Clementine, then gets disarmed, then makes a meandering statement to say his sister is... uh... sick! Yes, she's ... very sick!'
"in the next he's being forced by his group to mediate the ambush"
You really like making up facts which are not supported from what's shown in game, dont you? There's nothing at all to show that he was being forced by his group to do anything. In fact, the only reason his group would even KNOW about Clem's group is that he told them about Clem's group. Pot calling kettle black, you're the one making unsubstantiated guesses.
"in the rest of the game he won't even talk to you."
Which makes the real bad writing that Mike and Bonnie instantly bond with this person. A person who never talks to any of them, lashes out, causes everyone to start running (which causes the ice to break), yells (which can attract the walkers), gives all these 'glaring looks' at Clem, despite the fact that he's survived for 2 years in a zombie apocalypse - long enough to know if a person is a zombie you shoot them in the head (he glared at her when she was freezing to death even).
Oh yeah, and he shoots Clem, even if she is unarmed. He didnt shoot him for some 'mistaken belief that she killed his living sister, who he had to have noticed was not breathing since he was trying CPR.' He shoots an 11 year old girl, and I think that says more than enough about him to get a valid opinion. Stop defending someone who shoots an 11 year old girl already.
"So you're saying that Kenny's reasoning behind beating Arvo, which is either, 1.) He was taking his anger out, or 2.) He genuinely thought he was protecting the group, is irrelevant because you think Arvo deserved the abuse? Is that what you mean by the 'chicken or egg' reasoning?"
Chicken and Egg reasoning means it doesnt matter whether Kenny's anger is brought on by other people, or whether other people react to Kenny's anger. The fact still remains that he was correct about Arvo being a threat. Because as soon as he's free, he does something threatening to the group along with Bonnie and Mike (stealing the supplies and truck and leaving a baby and 11 year old to die in the winter cold) - and specifically threatening to Clem (shooting her)
"in my opinion not allowing Clementine to converse with Arvo just so he'd have a reason to shoot her no matter what was bad writing"
By the SAME reasoning (which is also poor reasoning since it relies on an argument of 'it was bad writing') - ANYTHING kenny has done is just a result of bad writing, because 1) you should be able to have a way to calm him down with words, since you and Kenny go back a long way, 2) you should be able to shoot Arvo so Kenny doesnt go down that path (not just shoot him by the house - shoot him AT THE AMBUSH, or let JANE shoot him at the observation deck, which she would have done if every choice you make wasnt to stop her from doing so), and 3) you should have an option at the end to talk Kenny down BEFORE he does anything to Arvo, like 'Katjaa wouldnt want you to do this'.
Again, saying 'so and so did this because of bad writing' is a poor reasoning. Don't protect Arvo's actions because of bad writing excuses, just like you shouldnt protect Kenny's choices because of bad writing excuses. WITHOUT using that excuse, Arvo is the bad guy here. Not Kenny.
"Yes...Which also doesn't make much sense to me either, because Mike has shown to care for Clementine. If Mike was completely selfish he wouldn't even bother bringing Arvo, he'd just take everything for himself and go."
I would have at least respected Mike if, after Arvo shoots Clem, he takes Clem's gun and shoots Arvo because of being horrified at what Arvo did and realizing Arvo is in no way a safer person to be with than Kenny. BEFORE running off with Bonnie.
Even Kenny didn't think Mike would turn on them like that. It just doesnt make any sense. Bonnie says a few hours beforehand that 'they'll take care of your baby, Rebecca' - apparently 'taking care of the baby is 'abandon the baby to die in the winter with no supplies.' And Bonnie's consistently gets Clem and her group in trouble. Even if you tried to save Luke like Bonnie asked, she STILL tries to steal all the supplies. If you want an example of out of character, that is. Arvo isnt out of character - he's just a person willing and ready to kill an 11 year old girl. TWICE.
The levels of pain differ for people. Facts support this.
Then you weren't paying attention.
Wouldn't you if you heard a noise behind you. Everyone needs to be cautious. He also said "I don't want to hurt little girl." You know he lied then because his group was forcing him to...He never said he needed bandages for his sister, that was obviously a lie as he admitted it later. Actually she was there with a pistol...Shows how much you remember.
lol. No.
You said it mainly affects black people and called that a myth.
It's based on your ancestor's race. Is it really that rare to have a white woman from Russia to have ancestors from any of those countries.
But there wasn't even a reason to bring it up.
But you're not. He lied before the ambush because his group forced him to. He wasn't the leader.
Again, who doesn't have a gun and in a world where everyone is dangerous. Someone now has you at gunpoint with your own gun and doesn't seem to be nice...You would stutter.
It's fun debating with people who doesn't know a damn thing about a game.
If you head out with medicine and return what are you going to say? "I lost it" no...Because then you would get a punishment. You also apparently haven't read the translated versions of the Russians dialogue.
He did actually, you just like to go on a long hating Arvo thing. There were many reasons for him to shoot her...I can defend anyone I want. I have defended Arvo, Lilly, Ben, Larry. You can't order me around, there's two sides to every story yet you don't care.
[removed]
Wow, is someone getting their panties in a bunch?
I firmly do not at all buy that Arvo is legit evil, that whole decision to shoot Clem was an artificial way to get me to hate Arvo and justify Kenny's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing.
I wouldn't at all trust Kenny, Kenny is an ass toward people who disagree with him and can indirectly get people killed.
Arvo is an all over the place character to start with and it seems like Telltale didn't know what to make of him, and of course, like most characters in this season, you barely get to know him, which is probably one of the reasons why people are so ready to crucify him.
You can disagree all you want but it's not changing my mind.
Well duh, I guess I'll use your lame arguments to support Kenny in the same way you support Arvo
Apparently you're the one getting the panties in a bunch, actually.
Kenny ever acting mean towards Arvo "was an artificial way to get me to hate Kenny and justify Arvo's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing."
See how stupid that reasoning sounds? That's how dumb your reasoning sounds for Arvo. "Bad writing" can be used for anyone - argue about if a character is good or bad based on what actually happens in the story, not what you think should happen.
Arvo was never 'all over the place' - he consistently lies and is untrustworthy, consistently holds a gun on Clem, and consistently is a potential threat. He never does anything which makes anyone think 'this guy can be a benefit to Clem's group.'
I will continue to disagree all I want, and I don't give a crap if it changes your mind or not - some people are just apologetic for bad people, like you are for Arvo.
"The levels of pain differ for people. Facts support this."
Again, she wasnt showing ANY sign of pain. She wasnt showing any reason to have you think she had sickle cell anemia AT ALL.
"Then you weren't paying attention."
Actually I'm paying pretty close attention to the fact that you keep making up information about how you feel Arvo was 'trying to escape with his sister' or 'was a victim of the other russians' or 'had a sister who was actually sick despite there being nothing to show that, while he was also saying he needed bandages for her when she doesnt have a wound or anything.'
"Wouldn't you if you heard a noise behind you. Everyone needs to be cautious. He also said "I don't want to hurt little girl.""
Once I see it's an 11 year old unarmed girl with her hands up to show she has no weapons, I WOULDNT KEEP HOLDING THE GUN ON HER like Arvo did.
"You know he lied then because his group was forcing him to..."
His group wasnt forcing him to do anything - he was part of that group, including his sister, who had a rifle as well, and there's nothing to show that he was being forced. It's all in your head. In fact, there is only evidence to show that Arvo told his group about Clem's group, and lied about Clem robbing him (wonder where that medicine went btw - it's not there at the mexican standoff) in order to justify the ambush.
"He never said he needed bandages for his sister, that was obviously a lie as he admitted it later."
So... your argument as to why he isnt a liar is to agree that he admitted that he was lying??
"Actually she was there with a pistol...Shows how much you remember."
She did not have a pistol in her hands. Her hands were UP to show she did not have a pistol. She was showing she was not a danger, and he still held the gun on her. She had the gun in her hands later at the mexican standoff
"Again, who doesn't have a gun and in a world where everyone is dangerous. Someone now has you at gunpoint with your own gun and doesn't seem to be nice...You would stutter."
He wasnt stuttering. He was meandering, avoiding eye contact, trying to think up what to say. The only way they could have made it more clear that he was lying was to have a big sign over him saying 'Arvo has just lied to you.' Trying to think up a lie about what he was doing with the medicine.
"It's fun debating with people who doesn't know a damn thing about a game."
It hasnt been at all fun debating with you, actually. Your lack of knowledge about any damn thing about the game is actually quite frustrating.
"If you head out with medicine and return what are you going to say? "I lost it" no...Because then you would get a punishment. You also apparently haven't read the translated versions of the Russians dialogue."
If you head out with medicine and come back without medicine, where did the medicine go if Clem and Jane DONT take it? Hmmmm I guess Arvo hid the medicine somewhere ELSE and didnt tell his own group, including his sister. What a trustworthy fellow. sarcasm
"I have defended Arvo, Lilly, Ben, Larry. You can't order me around, there's two sides to every story yet you don't care."
Yes, I've talked to people like you before. There are people who defend all manner of unforgiveable bad people. There are Hitler apologists. Terrorist apologists. Charles Manson apologists. Apologists for protestors who bomb abortion clinics. Apologists for protestors who bombed ROTC buildings in the 60s. Apologists for Bin Laden. Apologists for the Fort Wayne murderer, or the Paris murderers. It doesnt make the apologists right.
Btw, I don't think Lilly and Ben should be put in the same camp as Larry or Arvo. Lilly is only a truly bad person when she kills Carley, not when she kills Doug. Killing Doug is an accident, while killing Carley was on purpose and an evil act. Ben, on the other hand, is not a bad person at all - he's just a coward.... which, in the zombie apocalypse, isnt unreasonable. He also thought he was doing the right thing when he was giving supplies to the bandits - he thought he was keeping them from attacking his group by doing that (which to be honest, it was preventing).
Fine though - go ahead defending people who try killing children. Definitely puts you on the high morals side of the argument.
The pain levels differ to where they couldn't even show sometimes like I said earlier.
Lol. You don't pay attention then.
No, it's not like she could have a group nearby ready to disarm and rob...Wait a second.
Read the translated Russian lines. His sister had a pistol, go look again. There was only one AK, one shotgun and one pistol with the Russians. Oh yes, not like there could be something else that happened, no, I want to see this evidence you have. It seems YOU are just making it up.
Nope, he lied that one time, which he admitted to.
Not Clem his sister.
Sure he was. Watch it again, he was stuttering from the start.
Well, I actually know stuff about the game, you however are just looking for anything to make Arvo look like the bad guy.
Then he would take the punishment and leave that night as If was probably the plan.
Lol, apparently defending a video game character is the same as defending a terrorist. Get off your high horse.
You are a funny guy.
If the final choice was between Kenny and Arvo, I would go with Arvo. That's how much of a hero Kenny is.
"The pain levels differ to where they couldn't even show sometimes like I said earlier."
Except in a story, there are MANY ways to show that she actually is sick (in order to show Arvo was not lying). Holding her side, wincing, moaning in pain, speaking with nnnghs between her speech. ANYTHING. But no, she doesnt show anything to show she's in the slightest bit of pain, or has ever been in pain. If there's no evidence of it, don't assume stuff which the game isnt showing.
"No, it's not like she could have a group nearby ready to disarm and rob...Wait a second."
Again... if he wasnt holding the gun on Clem as he looked like he was about to shoot Clem even when she was telling him to put the gun down, Jane could not have taken his gun to hold on him, now could she?
"His sister had a pistol, go look again."
Well obviously that makes her not a threat at all then. Pistols don't fire bullets after all. sarcasm
"Sure he was. Watch it again, he was stuttering from the start."
Just watched it again. Nope, he wasnt stuttering when talking about his sister. Maybe you should be the one watching it again.
"Well, I actually know stuff about the game,"
All evidence to the contrary.
"you however are just looking for anything to make Arvo look like the bad guy."
Yeah, little things like ambushing the group, holding a gun on Clem, and shooting Clem in the right side of the chest when she was putting her gun down don't make Arvo look like a bad guy. I'm just SEARCHING for things. Suuuure. sarcasm
"Then he would take the punishment and leave that night as If was probably the plan."
Wow, you don't even bother to read what I say before you type out your stuff, do you. He came back without the medicine, regardless of whether you stole from him or not. Which means that if you don't steal from him, he hid the medicine somewhere else, and just blames you ANYWAY. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to get?
"Lol, apparently defending a video game character is the same as defending a terrorist."
Same basic idea - thought experiment. Some people, like you, feel a need to defend even people who are blatantly in the wrong and bad.
"You are a funny guy."
You're not.
I apologize, I meant That's how much of a hero Kenny was. Seeing as he's dead and Jane endings are canon.
Except...You know...She doesn't need to do that. Just because you might have a sting from the pain doesn't mean in everyday life you look like you're suffering and dying.
Jane was planning to do something to him, it's Jane.
Lol. You're so...Wow...You said she had a rifle not a pistol yet she had a pistol...Yet, no that I proved you wrong you're going to try and make this to where it's about her being a threat.
I did, he started from the start of the encounter.
Lol. K.
Forced to, For protection, Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before.
Lol. You don't read do you.
Looks like we got a guy who thinks defending a video game character means you must also defend terrorists and Hitler because you know that makes sense. You must be a fun guy in real life.
Why because i'm proving you wrong?
"Except...You know...She doesn't need to do that. Just because you might have a sting from the pain doesn't mean in everyday life you look like you're suffering and dying."
Then you can't make the assumption that she's sick, if there's nothing to show that she's sick and the authors don't use any literary device at all to show it as well.
"Jane was planning to do something to him, it's Jane."
How would she take a gun from him if he's not holding a gun on Clem?
"Forced to, For protection, Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before."
I have no idea what the hell you're saying here. You're literally making no sense at all.
"Lol. You don't read do you."
So... your response to my saying 'you don't read what I said' is 'you don't read do you'
"Looks like we got a guy who thinks defending a video game character means you must also defend terrorists and Hitler because you know that makes sense. You must be a fun guy in real life."
Again, you don't seem to understand the concept of a thought experiment. You seem to get off on 'defending the undefendable' - that minimizes any points you might have had, because you're making up info to justify something that's wrong.
"Why because i'm proving you wrong?"
No, because your arguments are nonsensical, and you don't bother reading anything before spouting off.
So, if she doesn't look like she's having a seizure then she's not sick.
...Okay...If he puts his gun in a holster then Jane can still take it. Arvo was leaving and Jane attacked.
I was giving reasons why he did the "Horrible" things you say he did.
Looks like it.
No, it's because the things you say Arvo did wrong are easily explainable. Plus, I'm not making anything up, you are. Saying that his sister had a rifle, saying that she needs suffer to notice she has pain, Arvo doing everything out of his own free will although evidence disproves that. You my friend are making stuff up.
Sure I don't. Not like my arguments actually disprove them, no, my arguments are nonsensical because YOU say they are. Lol, guess we're throwing logic out the door.
"So, if she doesn't look like she's having a seizure then she's not sick."
Uh... no. If she doesnt look like she's in even the slightest bit of discomfort whatsoever, then you shouldnt assume she's sick. It's a story-driven game. Which allows for story-driven plot points and literary tools to show stuff happening. They specifically did not show her having any problems whatsoever. That is not a queue to think 'well... I'm sure that she has a disease which she is not showing at all, and I shall ignore all the evidence which implies that Arvo was lying, including the fact that he's currently JUST set us up for an ambush by lying to us.' You're being willingly ignorant about this for some reason, for the sake of being a troll (someone who makes an argument which most normal people would assume as wrong, for the mere sake of argument - in this case that Arvo is a good person and was not lying).
"..Okay...If he puts his gun in a holster then Jane can still take it. Arvo was leaving and Jane attacked."
1) He had no holster. He took it out of his pocket
2) She wouldnt have had to take it, nor seen that he had a gun, if he wasnt holding it out and aiming it at Clementine. Jane didn't attack - she protected Clementine by disarming him. Remind me never to have you watch my back.
"I was giving reasons why he did the "Horrible" things you say he did."
Actually, no you didnt give reasons. Your sentence made no sense whatsoever. Here's what you said:
'Forced to, For protection, Shoulder actually and that was for revenge and she was actually giving the gun to Mike when she could've determinately threatened him right before.' - This makes no sense and your english teacher would weep if she read it. Either that, or English is not your primary language.
"No, it's because the things you say Arvo did wrong are easily explainable. Plus, I'm not making anything up, you are. Saying that his sister had a rifle, saying that she needs suffer to notice she has pain, Arvo doing everything out of his own free will although evidence disproves that. You my friend are making stuff up."
Uh... no, I'm not making anything up. You're the one saying his sister is sick, when she doesnt show ANY sort of sign of sickness. You're the one saying Arvo is being controlled by the other russians, when one of the other russians is his sister, and they wouldnt have even known about Clem's group if not for Arvo, and he set them up for an ambush, and LIED about the theft.
"Not like my arguments actually disprove them, no, my arguments are nonsensical because YOU say they are."
No... your arguments are nonsensical because you don't even counter what I'm saying with anything that happened in the game. You just make up conjecture, or make up a snide remark, followed by 'lol ok.' It's frustrating to 'argue' with you because you're not a very smart person when it comes to arguing, and don't actually read what the other person is saying.... then say 'you don't read what I'm saying' after I write a huge statement directly countering each thing you say, sentence by sentence.
"Lol, guess we're throwing logic out the door."
There you go again with the LOL, what a troll you are. Believe me, logic and you have never even been in the same room for it to be thrown out the door.
Actually he probably would have shot Clem on the observation deck had Jane not taken away the gun.
You know, he had to have seen that his sister was no longer breathing when he was trying to do CPR. How exactly would a person not breathing have been able to start coming over to Clementine and AJ? Has Arvo been living in a cave for the last two years of the zombie apocalypse to not figure out his sister had died and was coming at Clementine?
I wish Kenny hadnt taken him off of his sister so she could have bitten his stupid glasses-wearing face off.
Nobody makes "canon ending" posts on my watch! I'm confiscating your bullshit. Now pay your fine or it's off to Carver's Camp.
You expect in the 3-5 minutes we see her to be screaming in pain or wiggling around? No. Telltale just came inset up and ambush and left. If they actually cared they probably would have but they gave zero shits about the Russians only Arvo.
Just because I don't agree with you i'm a troll. Sure, okay buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night. I also like how you gave me the definition of troll... Lol.
Then he puts it in his pocket, but why would he have to, he was leaving.
He was leaving, she had no reason to disarm him.
Oh and don't worry I wouldn't watch your back.
Lol, it makes sense you're just being willingly ignorant to ignore it, alright Mr.Grammar, does this making it better?
His sister is sick and let me remind you that YOU were the one who brought up Sickle Cell Anemia. You also act like his sister was the only Russian, no, not like there were two other big Russians with large weapons there. Arvo was forced by the other Russians, you also don't know what he said about the theft, seems like you're making stuff up.
I do and I respond with Lol K because you made zero sense and you make me laugh.
Oh I'm smart and I'm winning this argument. I read exactly what you say but it doesn't make sense, I respond with a good counterargument and yet you decide that it was good, I don't understand it. Lol, you should read what you write, it's not even a counter argument.
Wonder how long with would take to get you to a point to where you're losing so much you decide to call me a troll.
Lol, now the insults, how about you try and stay on topic and actually debate.
Whatever, I done with your childish temper tantrums, besides I didn't say anything about Arvo being beneficial, thanks for putting words in my mouth,
Toxic.
Kenny was mean to Luke once or twice, but mostly mean to Nick, not Luke.
With Luke, he pretty much had good reason to be pissed off at Luke, since he decided to have sex with Jane instead of keeping a lookout for Walkers, which is what results in the walkers getting the drop on them, which is what results in Sarah's death.
That being said, Luke isnt a bad person at all, and is a better person than Kenny is... he's heroic, but he's not a particularly good leader, and pretty naive about some stuff. Like being all shocked that Clementine killed a dog which tried to kill her. Luke still died like a hero though, and I think he's a heroic person who made a few mistakes. Pete was probably the best person in that group, and the best leader.
Cabin Group:
Carlos - a hypocrite, and heartless, and hopelessly naive about Sarah (although this last part is understandable, since he's her father)
Sarah - autistic and incapable of surviving on her own, and unfortunately she would have gotten other people killed. Obviously not leader material
Luke - naive, doesnt think things through, doesnt quite get that sometimes people will need to be ruthless towards threats (like Carver, and like Arvo later on... and heck, like the dog that attacked Clem). If he wised up, he might be good leadership material. But by his death, he hadnt unfortunately, although he did die heroically saving Clem.
Nick - hot-headed, doesnt think things through at all. Almost killed Clem twice. Doesnt inspire confidence. Caused Matthew's death for no reason, because he shoots first and thinks second. Did not listen to Luke. Decided to get drunk instead of getting back to the cabin with Clem.
Rebecca - overstressed because of her pregnancy. Hot headed. I just don't see her as leadership mentality in general.
Alvin - Too much of a pushover and a follower, rather than a leader. That being said, if he had gotten more of a backbone in the group, he could have been a good leader. Died heroically.
Pete - level headed and pragmatic, but not cold-hearted. Good fighter. Willing to sacrifice for others. Others respect him. The one example of a good leader in the Season 2 game. Even moreso than Clem, who has all these qualities as well but has the con of her being an 11 year old girl.
Walter's group:
Kenny - hot-headed and stubborn. Stubbornness and anger are his main problems, actually. The anger is probably fine for a leader in the apocalypse, but the stubbornness is not. But willing to sacrifice for others. VERY good fighter. Very loyal to people IN his group when they're on the same page. Willing to apologize after his blow-ups, but he has a LOT of blowups. Prone to jumping to conclusions, but has good instincts about people. Not a particularly good leader, but others initially look to him for answers. Until he starts letting his rage get to him and starts scaring others in the group (it didnt happen in his group with Walter - only happened when the messed up additions from the cabin group and the lowes group got involved)
Walter - good leader mentality, actually. Nurturing. Caring of others. Others respect him. Insightful and smart. Not a 'great' fighter necessarily, though you don't know for sure since he didnt do much fighting. He was a good enough shot to shoot the zombie on Nick without hitting Nick, though. Not ruthless enough though, and that wound up hurting by trusting people like Bonnie, who then brought Carver, which resulted in his death by Carver.
Matthew - who knows - he was on screen for like 3 seconds. Might have been good leadership material though.
Sarita - seems like a lot more of a follower than a leader, but she was a good calming influence on Kenny, which helped with one of Kenny's two main failings - his anger issues.
Lowes invitees:
Bonnie - Basically a traitor. Every group she's been in has wound up regretting it. Leland's group. Carver's group. Clem's group. She makes stupid choices, holds grudges, doesnt think things through, and lays everything on the shoulders of an 11 year old girl. Puts others in dangerous situations time and time again out of her own thoughtlessness (especially Clem, who she put or asked to put in a dangerous situation that she could have done herself THREE times in the short time they've known each other). Also, repays kindness with treachery. Has a total blindness to bad people, like Carver. Even when told point blank that Carver killed Reggie. And then later people like Arvo. Says she'll protect the baby, then steals all the supplies while leaving the baby behind. Ingrate.
Reggie - nice person, but not a leader.
Jane - Good survival skills. Good fighter. Pragmatic. But COLD-hearted. Does not inspire others to have any confidence in her, or willingness to follow her, and she doesnt want them to anyway. Willing to abandon others as soon as the odds are slightly against them. Also.... her plans are insane and heartless. TERRIBLE leader, because to be a leader you need to want to have other people around.
Mike - not a leader mentality. Very much a follower mentality. Overall, not a bad person, but easily coerced or convinced by others. Bad judge of character of others, but he himself is a good person until he gets scared, then he does stuff without really thinking it through.
Clementine - Excellent leadership skills. Others do tend to respect her, which is why everyone keeps putting everything on her shoulders despite her being an 11 year old girl. Good fighting skills. BRAVERY in spades. Willing to be ruthless, but also willing to show compassion. Willing to trust others, and she in turn inspires trust in others toward her. Badass and at the same time doesnt have anger issues. Gives others hope for the future, both because of her capability and her not having had this world completely kill her sense of hope - yet. Negative - her age. Might not be a good leader now, but ONLY because of her age... which would understandably make others not willing to follow her. Give her a few years and she'd be an excellent leader, possibly better than even Lee (a good leader) was, because she doesnt have the whole 'I was a convicted murderer secret' thing.
"You expect in the 3-5 minutes we see her to be screaming in pain or wiggling around?"
No, Just show even the slightest evidence that she had ANY pain whatsoever. Or was in any way sick. Or injured. In ANY slight way. She wasnt. So stop making an assumption that she was.
"Just because I don't agree with you i'm a troll. Sure, okay buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night. I also like how you gave me the definition of troll... Lol."
No, you're not a troll because you disagree. You're a troll because you're snide and condescending, engage only in ad hominem arguments, and already flat out said that you always defend the people who others consider the bad guys. Obviously to get a rise out of other people. Not to mention the joy you seem to get at trying to frustrate people with your ignorant comments with the stupid 'lol' as if you actually think you're humorous.
"His sister is sick and let me remind you that YOU were the one who brought up Sickle Cell Anemia."
Actually I wasnt the one who brought up sickle cell anemia. Read again. Someone else did, and I responded to that. Then you responded without bothering to pay attention to the thread, which I'm beginning to see if your defining characteristic.
"You also act like his sister was the only Russian, no, not like there were two other big Russians with large weapons there."
Yeah, it's two on two. Yet you're making the assumption that he wasnt willingly going along with them without even the slightest bit of evidence
"Arvo was forced by the other Russians,"
No evidence that he was forced at all. Just as likely that he actually told the other russians that they should ambush Clem's group.
"you also don't know what he said about the theft,"
What the hell are you talking about? Of course I know what he said about the theft. He TELLS Clem's group that he said Clem stole from him! Did you miss that part of the game?
"seems like you're making stuff up."
You're the only one seeming to make stuff up, not me.
"I do and I respond with Lol K because you made zero sense and you make me laugh."
Wow... I didnt think you would agree when I said 'you just make up conjecture.' You respond with Lol K because you're childish and unable to actually debate something in a mature fashion. I doubt I make you laugh - I think you're getting pissed off, in fact, but being a little troll, you want to try to get more of a rise out of me. It's sort of pathetic, actually.
"Oh I'm smart and I'm winning this argument."
When you need to announce that you're winning an argument, without having actually made any winning points, it's a pretty clear proof that you're not winning the argument.
"I read exactly what you say but it doesn't make sense, I respond with a good counterargument"
You havent made any counterarguments, except to make up 'facts' which don't actually happen in the game, then say 'therefore Arvo is not a bad person.'
"Wonder how long with would take to get you to a point to where you're losing so much you decide to call me a troll."
Probably about the same amount of time it took for you to respond to every pertinent point I made with an Lol k since you don't actually know how to support your invalid arguments.
"Lol, now the insults, how about you try and stay on topic and actually debate."
He says as he actively is and has been insulting for the past several comments.
LOL. Back atcha.
"that whole decision to shoot Clem was an artificial way to get me to hate Arvo and justify Kenny's unstable behavior towards him, and I didn't buy it, because wasn't good writing."
"Arvo is an all over the place character to start with and it seems like Telltale didn't know what to make of him, and of course, like most characters in this season, you barely get to know him, which is probably one of the reasons why people are so ready to crucify him."
Don't need to put words in your mouth. All I've said what saying that someone is not a bad person simply because whenver he does something bad, that it's 'bad writing' is a poor argument.
Stop making the assumption she isn't.
Buddy, that's called my attitude not me being a troll. I defend people because I want to and understand their viewpoints not because they're the bad guys.
No, you commented to me, when you did that you caused this. I respond with lol because you're a funny person.
Yet, you brought it up to me. This thread and that comment was from months ago, you act like I made it yesterday.
You're making the assumption that a crippled kid and a sick woman has any say against two large men with guns.
Have you even read the damn translated Russian dialogue yet?
Yes because we were there when Arvo returned to his group and told them. No.
It's you.
Wow, making assumptions about me now. Lol, I'm not angry, in the slightest actually, it's funny that you think it. You seem to not know a thing about the game and it's funny seeing you make up points and connect those made up points together then say I'm making stuff up. Oh, but please, keep with the insults.
Well, when you say I'm not I say I am...It's not like at the end of my post I said "I'm winning".
I have made tons, you just are refusing to acknowledge them. I also haven't said Arvo is a good person. I also don't make up facts.
Lol, K. My arguments are valid, I wasn't here first insulting you, that was you.
Sure I have.
There you go, now you're getting into the spirit. However, you forgot the K after the lol, you need to improve but I'm seeing you are reaching a good point.