So Stannis, who burned people alive just because of their religion (inquisition) is not as close to Hitler as Daenerys, who crucified the slave masters, yes, but because they crucified innocent children, leaving them in pain and to rot? IMO, that was much more fair than the executions Stannis did.
According to your logic, any judge that condemned a child murderer to death is closer to Hitler than an Inquisition member.
Stannis is burning everyone that follows the old gods and any other religion. He is pretty much the Hitler of GOT.
* No, read the … morebooks again. Stannis burns traitors (but he also pardons many of them), and often denies Mel for making sacrifices for R'hllor when she asks. "Pray harder" -Stannis.
* Dany crucifies people she doesn't like = Hitlerina?
To be honest since we are talking about Hitler, Dany as a person/leader is much more like him than Stan is. She is often irrational, her opinions wave making it hard for Jorah & co. to help her, she even thinks of herself as god at one point. Yeah, I'm not saying she is like Hitler but actually closer than Stannis.
The religion burns... Well yeah they can be used as an argument against show!Stannis but in the books he kills only for treason. And you see because there was one messed up (by D&D) scene in the show is not going to change my opinion of Stannis, because the book!Stannis is still the original Stannis.
And clearly the slaver masters had some kind of eh... "democracy" (meaning between the nobles) so Dany can't blame them all even if the majority had voted for killing those children. And this is even brought up in the show when Hizdhar zo Loraq tells his father voted against it and still got crucified. And as I said I do not see Dany as equal to Hitler, but with her way of ruling she is closer to it than Stannis. Stannis is more direct in his ruling, and he sees himself as servant of the realm as it is his duty to lead it. That is nothing like Hitler, Hitler saw that the nation existed for him, not the other way round. Dany... Well she is a teenager, maybe a better fit to rule than some average teenager but still a teenager.
So Stannis, who burned people alive just because of their religion (inquisition) is not as close to Hitler as Daenerys, who crucified the sl… moreave masters, yes, but because they crucified innocent children, leaving them in pain and to rot? IMO, that was much more fair than the executions Stannis did.
According to your logic, any judge that condemned a child murderer to death is closer to Hitler than an Inquisition member.
Stannis also while at the wall tries to take what ever he can from the Night's watch to continue his attack on the throne which is pretty counterintuitive than coming to aid the Night's watch.
Correct me If I'm wrong but didn't Stannis stop save the NW by stopping Mance's army? Stannis also assimilated the Wildlings providing them safety from the others. He's done more for the NW than anyone has done in a very long time considering he saved them from utter destruction.
Jon Snow's solution was wrong considering it would have probably meant the utter destruction of all the free-folk. Innocent children and the rest of the lot would have been massacred simply because they were born on the wrong side of the wall. It seems to me the more plausible solution is too assimilate them wildlings and enlist them to your army where they can help you restore Westoros (Removing Freys and Boltons from any source of power)
I still dont see why people like Stannis more.
"Oh but he came to aid the wall from the Wildlings." In a dance of dragons he ends up lett… moreing The wildlings pass through the wall as aid to his army where they can possibly flee from Stannis and start more shit in Westeros. John Snow has the better idea wants to just blow the tunnels and fortify the top of the wall.
John even looks for a way to get rid of Stannis in a dance with dragons because quartering his soldiers is costing the Night's watch resources. Stannis also while at the wall tries to take what ever he can from the Night's watch to continue his attack on the throne which is pretty counterintuitive than coming to aid the Night's watch.
There is also a lot of foreshadowing that Stannis and his red queen are the actual villains based on how much they use shadow/darkness to do their bidding more than light.
Even Maester Aemon a knowledgeable old man man who forfeited his right… [view original content]
Stannis left the Wall simply because he had to. He got involved in rescuing Winterfell after the clans agreed to fight with him. Also, he couldn't stay due to the Night's Watch promise that they will avoid any conflict and does not stand on either side of any war.
Even Maester Aemon a man who forfeited his right and all cares of rule long ago sees Stannis as destruction.
I don't remember anything like that. Aemon only says that Stannis's sword gives off no heat, so it couldn't be the true Lightbringer, and Stannis can't be Azor Ahai (according to Aemon's words).
Stannis is burning everyone that follows the old gods and any other religion.
And Dany is burning everyone that doesn't agree to live in her new world. Tie.
I still dont see why people like Stannis more.
"Oh but he came to aid the wall from the Wildlings." In a dance of dragons he ends up lett… moreing The wildlings pass through the wall as aid to his army where they can possibly flee from Stannis and start more shit in Westeros. John Snow has the better idea wants to just blow the tunnels and fortify the top of the wall.
John even looks for a way to get rid of Stannis because quartering his soldiers is costing the Night's watch resources.
There is also a lot of foreshadowing that Stannis and his red queen are the actual villains based on how much they use shadow more than light.
Even Maester Aemon a man who forfeited his right and all cares of rule long ago sees Stannis as destruction.
Stannis is burning everyone that follows the old gods and any other religion. He is pretty much the Hitler of GOT.
Because he wanted to keep fighting in the heat of the battle in high adrenaline? And obviously he calmed down in time and fled with his men or his head would still be rotting on a pike at King's Landing.
He still wanted to fight after getting almost all of the ships blown up, and he refused to back down when losing, he was even told to retreat. Staying to fight and dying? Thats not what a good leader does.
Because he wanted to keep fighting in the heat of the battle in high adrenaline? And obviously he calmed down in time and fled with his men or his head would still be rotting on a pike at King's Landing.
Dany isn't exactly fit for battle... she isn't some sort of warrior or fighter at all really. It's a little much to expect her to be running off into battle a la Stannis.
Why not? She can be a fighter, if not by wielding a sword in battle, at least by leaving her tent and helping people with her royal presence. Would you fight for someone you don't know or haven't seen, that you only heard some stories about? I wouldn't.
why you hate Danaerys.
I kinda did burst with anger at the very first page of this thread, you might look it up if you want.
Anyway... I've been disliking her since I first read her chapters in the book, it's not about "following the trend" or something, however after the slave situation I started to hate her so damn much.
First off, I feel like her story has become unstable and too chaotic to enjoy it. In addition, I don't like Essos and find uninteresting everything related to it (perhaps it's the reason of why I don't like Asher's storyline).
Secondly, I think that Dany is not made for the political world of being a Queen, yet the people she freed believe "Mhysa" is perfect, happily thinking she has ended all of their problems. She has so many good advices around her, yet she doesn't use them at all, falling in love with a manipulative sellsword captain instead. She is called the mother of dragons, but she can't put them to any use, which finally ends with a tragedy.
Finally, she wants to be a Queen of all (including Westeros), but she was fed with her brother's lies and ended up misinformed about Targaryen's past. Then, she refuses to learn anything about Westeros from good old wise ser Barristan. How does she want to rule a kingdom without the knowlege about it? Also, I'm afraid people of Westeros would not accept her, with dragons flying around and eating kids, and the army of mercenaries killing anyone who refuse to bend the knee.
Personally, I don't get it why people like Daenerys, obviously ignoring such arguments like "duh, she is one hot chick and has those awesome dragons".
Not exactly. (Spoilers!) For, example, Deanerys hadn't captured Yunkai, her people had. Jorah, Daario and the Grey Worm infiltrated the city… more and fought their way through the slave soldiers guarding it. Stannis was onboard his fleet burned to ashes, he led the charge against the wildlings. Dany is the boss, Stannis is the commander.
Dany isn't exactly fit for battle... she isn't some sort of warrior or fighter at all really. It's a little much to expect her to be running off into battle a la Stannis.
Anyway, your other points for liking Stannis more by comparison make sense to me. What I still don't understand is why you hate Danaerys. That's really all I've been looking for since I initially raised the question. It seems like more often than not the fans that do have a dislike for her character tend to have a problem with her personality, which is why I was drawing parallels to Stannis in the first place. If these people hate Dany'… [view original content]
I completely agree with you here and I just want to add that for a humorless guy he's actually one of the funniest in the books.
Some of … moremy favorites:
* "Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."
* "Without a son of Winterfell to stand beside me, I can only hope to win the north by battle. That requires stealing a leaf from my brother's book. Not that Robert ever read one."
* Renly to Stannis - "You'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid." Stannis: "In your bed she's like to die that way."
And 2 from the funniest guy in the books, Dolorous Edd:
* "Your boat’s not like to sink, I don’t think. Boats only sink when I’m aboard"
* "We will defend the wall to the last man!" said Cotter Pyke. "Probably me." Said Dolorous Edd, in a resigned voice.
Why not? She can be a fighter, if not by wielding a sword in battle, at least by leaving her tent and helping people with her royal presence. Would you fight for someone you don't know or haven't seen, that you only heard some stories about? I wouldn't.
She has had zero training, and is not physically capable enough to be doing any fighting against trained soldiers. There isn't any reason why she should risk getting herself hurt (or even killed) out there, considering she can't really do anything to actually protect herself. It doesn't really make sense to have her around during a battle, as it only adds another objective to whatever the goal already is (as in they would have to worry about protecting her). She doesn't need to have a presence on the battlefield in order for her subjects to care about her. She has made herself readily available to her people + her army as it is. It's not as if she is some sort of mysterious figure that they have never personally heard from.
I think it's awesome that Stannis fights alongside his army, but Dany's personal situation is vastly different from his own. I think you can give him props without criticizing Dany for not being able to do the same, because again, their situations aren't comparable.
Secondly, I think that Dany is not made for the political world of being a Queen, yet the people she freed believe "Mhysa" is perfect, happily thinking she has ended all of their problems. She has so many good advices around her, yet she doesn't use them at all, falling in love with a manipulative sellsword captain instead. She is called the mother of dragons, but she can't put them to any use, which finally ends with a tragedy.
Could you be a little more specific? Of course she lacks experience at this point, but that's the only real negative that I can specifically think of. She certainly doesn't ignore the advice around her. The last interaction she had with Jorah before sending him away was her changing her own plans according to what he advised her to do. I think it would be one thing if she was ignoring advice and then making poor decisions, but that hasn't been the case. I do think she should have kept better control of her dragons, though she seemed to think she had them under control. At least she took responsibility afterwards, I suppose.
Also, I'm afraid people of Westeros would not accept her, with dragons flying around and eating kids, and the army of mercenaries killing anyone who refuse to bend the knee.
She seems to understand that... which is why she chained her dragons up at the end of season four. The whole point of that scene was to show that she wasn't just going to let them run wild anymore. As for mercenaries killing anyone who refuses to bend the knee, it seems odd to bring that up as a negative when you like Stannis, a man who has openly admitted that he will destroy anyone who gets in his way. Anyone who openly speaks out against himself, Melisandre, or their particular religious views gets burned alive. Easily more cruel/ harsh than simply cutting through those who violently oppose you.
I'll add that I personally don't think Danaerys is a flawless person by any means at all, I simply don't see where all of this strong hate is coming from.
Dany isn't exactly fit for battle... she isn't some sort of warrior or fighter at all really. It's a little much to expect her to be running… more off into battle a la Stannis.
Why not? She can be a fighter, if not by wielding a sword in battle, at least by leaving her tent and helping people with her royal presence. Would you fight for someone you don't know or haven't seen, that you only heard some stories about? I wouldn't.
why you hate Danaerys.
I kinda did burst with anger at the very first page of this thread, you might look it up if you want.
Anyway... I've been disliking her since I first read her chapters in the book, it's not about "following the trend" or something, however after the slave situation I started to hate her so damn much.
* First off, I feel like her story has become unstable and too chaotic to enjoy it. In addition, I don't like Essos and find uninteresting everything related to it (perhaps it'… [view original content]
I think your confused and need to re-read the book. In the book "Treason" to stannis is following the old gods or any other religion also.
In a Davos chapter Davos almost gets burned himself after saying "She's a foreigner, preaching a foreign religion." to Stannis about the Red Priestess. Davos ends up having to swear to the Red priestesses faith or be burned. Davos got lucky since him and Stannis go way back, any one else that questioned the faith R'hllor was burned on the spot.
Jon Snow even has to send Maester Aemon and Mance Rayder's baby away on boat down south with Sam to protect them from Stannis and the Red woman's notoriously monstrous sacrifices.
As for Dany and the Crucifixions, they were still slave masters for Christ sake. The lot of them that were crucified were horrible people that have worked slaves to death and sold them like property. Not all slaves were treated well. The majority of slaves were living horrible lives that's why Dany was able to win so many to her side.
How can you even stand to defend slave masters? Spartacus would like to have a word with you.
The religion burns... Well yeah they can be used as an argument against show!Stannis but in the books he kills only for treason. And you see… more because there was one messed up (by D&D) scene in the show is not going to change my opinion of Stannis, because the book!Stannis is still the original Stannis.
And clearly the slaver masters had some kind of eh... "democracy" (meaning between the nobles) so Dany can't blame them all even if the majority had voted for killing those children. And this is even brought up in the show when Hizdhar zo Loraq tells his father voted against it and still got crucified. And as I said I do not see Dany as equal to Hitler, but with her way of ruling she is closer to it than Stannis. Stannis is more direct in his ruling, and he sees himself as servant of the realm as it is his duty to lead it. That is nothing like Hitler, Hitler saw that the nation existed for him, not the other way round. Dany... Well she is … [view original content]
Maester Aemon tells Jon that Staniss is the false king and will ruin the realm before suggest to Jon to send him, Sam, and Mance's baby to the south on a boat even though it would mean certain death for Aemon. Before Aemon dies he even tells Sam to tell the master maesters to send support to dany the true ruler.
Who has Dany really burned with her dragons other than a slave masters that have tormented, tortured and worked slaves like unsullied to death? Please don't be ignorant about slave masters being horrible people. They deserved it.
Burning people based on their religion (Stannis) is way different than burning slave masters. There is no fucking tie.
Stannis left the Wall simply because he had to. He got involved in rescuing Winterfell after the clans agreed to fight with him. Also, he co… moreuldn't stay due to the Night's Watch promise that they will avoid any conflict and does not stand on either side of any war.
Even Maester Aemon a man who forfeited his right and all cares of rule long ago sees Stannis as destruction.
I don't remember anything like that. Aemon only says that Stannis's sword gives off no heat, so it couldn't be the true Lightbringer, and Stannis can't be Azor Ahai (according to Aemon's words).
Stannis is burning everyone that follows the old gods and any other religion.
And Dany is burning everyone that doesn't agree to live in her new world. Tie.
And I don't so much dislike Dany as much as I don't think she should rule. She is terrible at the game of politics and thinks too much with her heart than her head. (and I am not a Stannis loyalist, I honestly don't want either of them on the throne.)
Body is too round? Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.
My hate for Daenerys as a character knows no boundaries. I have only antipathy for her cause, and I cringe to the thought her filthy bunch o… moref Dothraki horse-f*ckers and Essos' slaves and lowest castes might ever soil the beautiful lands of Westeros with their dirty unwashed feet. But at least I love to hate her and read every single of their POVs, if only because her arc is closely intricate with the main plot.
As for Emilia Clarke, her "hotness" is way overrated and she looks so fake as a blonde. Not even talking about her plain-looking face, her body is too round, stocky and vulgar, completely lacking the aristocratic vibe and refined traits that should suit the heiress to the most noble House of all Westeros, the Targaryens. A young Michelle Pfeiffer for example would have been perfect as Daenerys.
Physically speaking, Emilia Clarke would have been fine in the role of a peasant girl or one of Littlefinger's whores, but she's totally miscast as the last Targaryen.
Well give me the chapters where Stannis burns anyone because of religion and I'll check.
Slavery is wrong, but if Dany wants to stop slavery she should have a better plan for it and pretty much own her life for that. Now she is just "imma go to slaverz bay and kill all slaverz and then go to westerooos". In other words destroy the old system without having a decent plan on how to re-build it without slavery and just abandon the place because she needs to go and take back her throne that was taken by monsters like Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark from his heavenly saint father Mad King Aerys.
I think your confused and need to re-read the book. In the book "Treason" to stannis is following the old gods or any other religion also.
… more
In a Davos chapter Davos almost gets burned himself after saying "She's a foreigner, preaching a foreign religion." to Stannis about the Red Priestess. Davos ends up having to swear to the Red priestesses faith or be burned. Davos got lucky since him and Stannis go way back, any one else that questioned the faith R'hllor was burned on the spot.
Jon Snow even has to send Maester Aemon and Mance Rayder's baby away on boat down south with Sam to protect them from Stannis and the Red woman's notoriously monstrous sacrifices.
As for Dany and the Crucifixions, they were still slave masters for Christ sake. The lot of them that were crucified were horrible people that have worked slaves to death and sold them like property. Not all slaves were treated well. The majority of slaves were living horrible l… [view original content]
Look at photos of her when she was young. The same description could have applied to her then... or to many of the British royals, for that matter. Few royals from Britain or elsewhere had/have the perfect body you speak of.
I'm straight, but damn, I really love watching her on screen. She has such an ethereal beauty about her, I feel bewitched just looking at he… morer.
I liked her acting in S1, but I became less interested in her story arc after Khal Drogo and Viserys, who I felt helped give more variation to her scenes.
Emilia really has some tough luck. I have recently started hating her as an actress simply because I hate her role as Dany. You know you are fucked when playing a badly written character starts affecting your own career. I know I should differentiate between her as an actress and her role, but she has been doing it for so long that I can't help but let these two things slowly become one.
I know for a fact that I already don't want to see her face in any more shows or films anymore. I might not be the only one who feels that way, too.
That is incredibly ignorant. Remember how many people actually hated Jack Gleeson because of Joffrey? Not saying it was the main reason he quit as an actor, but he has expressed that after his acting career in GoT he no longer feels the same way about acting. Please do differentiate an actor or actress from their character. They are human beings, not someone you can hate for a role they play. Emilia seems like an incredibly warm, funny and good human being... GoT is basically her first real acting job. The woman has her whole future ahead of her. It'd be sad if fans ruined her career because of all the hate.
Emilia really has some tough luck. I have recently started hating her as an actress simply because I hate her role as Dany. You know you are… more fucked when playing a badly written character starts affecting your own career. I know I should differentiate between her as an actress and her role, but she has been doing it for so long that I can't help but let these two things slowly become one.
I know for a fact that I already don't want to see her face in any more shows or films anymore. I might not be the only one who feels that way, too.
I didn't read the books but I watch the tv show and Daenerys has been one of my favorite characters from the beginning. I'm always looking forward to her scenes in the show and I find her story very interesting. She has the most epic scenes in the show and she seems to support good causes. I know she's not perfect, every character have their own flaws and it's a good thing because otherwise they would be boring.
I was very surprised to see that so many people seem to hate her and I really can't understand why. Concerning the actress, I watched some of her interviews and she seems to be a nice person, I think she did a great job on this character.
Listen, I don't want to argue who should sit on the Ugly Iron Chair or who is the better king, regardless of who said what. I'm talking about who I like better, and this is primarily based on one's character, which is perceived differently by different people. As much as I like Stannis, I don't think he will ever be the King. It doesn't sound very Martin-like.
Who has Dany really burned with her dragons other than a slave masters that have tormented, tortured and worked slaves like unsullied to death? Please don't be ignorant about slave masters being horrible people. They deserved it.
It all depends on perspective. Horrible or wonderfull, they are people, and I bet that not all the masters were brutal, crude or abusive. Let's not be ignorant, there are other ways to change someone's point of view and and come to an agreement. Dany is a liar, dissembler and extremely bloody murderer. She reaches one city and gets angry about how bad the slaves live, so she decides to change that. Sudden whim of a teenager, suprised by the reality of the cruel world. She broke the thousand-year tradition, filling the gutters with blood, and expecting it made everything better. No matter how much unfair and derogatory Slaver's Bay reign was, this part of the world knew no other laws, especially that some of the slaves enjoyed their way of life. Dany can't expect slaves to just fit into the paradise she burned out of those cities policy.
Burning people based on their religion (Stannis) is way different than burning slave masters.
How is that different? People are dead, no matter what had killed them. Also, it's not Stannis who burns, it's Melisandre. And the relationship between those two is a topic for a different discussion.
Maester Aemon tells Jon that Staniss is the false king and will ruin the realm before suggest to Jon to send him, Sam, and Mance's baby to t… morehe south on a boat even though it would mean certain death for Aemon. Before Aemon dies he even tells Sam to tell the master maesters to send support to dany the true ruler.
Who has Dany really burned with her dragons other than a slave masters that have tormented, tortured and worked slaves like unsullied to death? Please don't be ignorant about slave masters being horrible people. They deserved it.
Burning people based on their religion (Stannis) is way different than burning slave masters. There is no fucking tie.
There isn't any reason why she should risk getting herself hurt (or even killed) out there, considering she can't really do anything to actually protect herself.
That's why I don't like them. Beautiful ladies doing nothing but looking pretty and powerful. But no offense, it's personal preference.
She doesn't need to have a presence on the battlefield in order for her subjects to care about her. She has made herself readily available to her people + her army as it is. It's not as if she is some sort of mysterious figure that they have never personally heard from.
She has made herself as Daughter of Death and Slayer of Lies. Her henchmen believe she is ideal, impregnable and some tales say she can't be killed. They know her only as mysterious figure, not as a person. Sooner or later, she will find herself without her advisors and guards, perhaps even without her dragons. She won't defeat her enemies by using titles.
I think you can give him props without criticizing Dany for not being able to do the same, because again, their situations aren't comparable.
Yeah. Its hard to compare those two on an equal level, but then again, my point wasn't to create a competition. I just like Stannis more, and one of the reasons is that he fights alongside his soldiers.
Could you be a little more specific?
Of course. "I value your advice, but if you ever question me in front of strangers again, you'll be advising someone else. Is that understood?" Dany has two character flaws that I find very difficult to deal with: arrogance and a deluded sense of being morally superior to other people. When something is morally right to her, it ends a discussion (even if it doesn't, what makes her a hypocrite). Ser Barristan is constantly advising her to split the personal feelings and emotions Queen needs to restrain, but she keep ignoring him (and for example, sleeps with Dario). She claims to be liberating people when is actually just ruling them.
Delusional attitude can be interesting in villains, but current Dany would be a ridiculous one. Though if Martin took a turn and made her more villian like specified, perhaps I would enjoy her chapters more.
As for mercenaries killing anyone who refuses to bend the knee, it seems odd to bring that up as a negative when you like Stannis, a man who has openly admitted that he will destroy anyone who gets in his way. Anyone who openly speaks out against himself, Melisandre, or their particular religious views gets burned alive. Easily more cruel/ harsh than simply cutting through those who violently oppose you.
Again, Melisandre is the one who burns people alive. At first, she manipulated and successfully decieved Stannis, and he was being an idiot for letting her do it. That felt real, true. Stannis was blind by the prophecy, he was clearly believing that he must keep going, no matter what.
Personal opinion: Stannis believes in Melisandre’s powers because he’s seen them, but this doesn’t mean he believes in her god. I feel like Stannis thinks there are no gods. He believes in his duty and the sword that helps to make it, like Geralt of Rivia. He believes in what he sees, even if he must take some random god into account. Even Melisandre herself is aware of this.
Just to be clear, I don't support Stannis for letting Mel burn people. But while everyone hates him for that, they support and applaud Dany for doing exact the same.
Why not? She can be a fighter, if not by wielding a sword in battle, at least by leaving her tent and helping people with her royal presence… more. Would you fight for someone you don't know or haven't seen, that you only heard some stories about? I wouldn't.
She has had zero training, and is not physically capable enough to be doing any fighting against trained soldiers. There isn't any reason why she should risk getting herself hurt (or even killed) out there, considering she can't really do anything to actually protect herself. It doesn't really make sense to have her around during a battle, as it only adds another objective to whatever the goal already is (as in they would have to worry about protecting her). She doesn't need to have a presence on the battlefield in order for her subjects to care about her. She has made herself readily available to her people + her army as it is. It's not as if she is some sort of mysterious figure that… [view original content]
All good. I'm going to try and keep my reply brief here.
That's why I don't like them. Beautiful ladies doing nothing but looking pretty and powerful. But no offense, it's personal preference.
I don't know, I just feel like not everyone is meant to be a fighter... right? Daenarys just isn't really built for that kind of role. I honestly think it would be a little ridiculous for her to be out on the battlefield... unless she had her dragons helping her out or something. I understand you preferring characters that are kind of badass ala Stannis, it just seems odd to bring this up as a particular reason (or part of) to hate a character.
She has made herself as Daughter of Death and Slayer of Lies. Her henchmen believe she is ideal, impregnable and some tales say she can't be killed. They know her only as mysterious figure, not as a person.
I'm just not really seeing how she could be doing anything different than what she already is doing. She makes herself available to her people, to the extent that she will hold sessions lasting hours just to personally meet with anyone wishing to speak with her/ raise their concerns. What else should she specifically be doing to become more familiar with her people/ army? She isn't really any more cut off from her people than any other leader in the show has been. In fact, I would argue that she has been more available/ friendly to her followers than any other leader that we have seen so far.
Robb Stark was idolized and idealized by his followers. Do you count that as a negative against him as well? If anything, I think the the fact that Dany is idealized by her people shows how much they actually do care for both her motives and herself as a person/leader.
Yeah. Its hard to compare those two on an equal level, but then again, my point wasn't to create a competition. I just like Stannis more, and one of the reasons is that he fights alongside his soldiers.
It's kind of getting muddied at this point, but I'll just say again that my original comment was aimed at those who hate Dany specifically because of her personality, but also happen to like Stannis, who carries several of Dany's perceived negative personality qualities.
Of course. "I value your advice, but if you ever question me in front of strangers again, you'll be advising someone else. Is that understood?"
Had a feeling you were going to mention this. I don't think that has to do with her not caring about advice that is given to her, and more so not wanting to look weak in front of a potential enemy. Either way, this is a one time case of her shooting down advice given to her. Typically she doesn't do this at all, and instead readily listens to the advice of the people around her (whether she ultimately ends up siding with that advice or not).
Again, Melisandre is the one who burns people alive. At first, she manipulated and successfully decieved Stannis, and he was being an idiot for letting her do it. That felt real, true. Stannis was blind by the prophecy, he was clearly believing that he must keep going, no matter what.
I get that, but Stannis is still the one calling the shots, and making things happen. Manipulated or not, he certainly has a very cruel side to him. Easily more so than Daenarys.
Just to be clear, I don't support Stannis for letting Mel burn people. But while everyone hates him for that, they support and applaud Dany for doing exact the same
Dany hasn't intentionally killed innocent, good people though. I highly doubt she would execute someone simply for speaking out against her. What has she done that is on par with Stannis's cruelty? She dealt with the slave masters pretty harshly, but they were by no means innocent people, and she punished them according to how they were treating their very own slaves. Maybe it wasn't flawless justice, but it was meant as so (in a moral sense).
Sorry it took some time, I've been busy.
There isn't any reason why she should risk getting herself hurt (or even killed) out there, c… moreonsidering she can't really do anything to actually protect herself.
That's why I don't like them. Beautiful ladies doing nothing but looking pretty and powerful. But no offense, it's personal preference.
She doesn't need to have a presence on the battlefield in order for her subjects to care about her. She has made herself readily available to her people + her army as it is. It's not as if she is some sort of mysterious figure that they have never personally heard from.
She has made herself as Daughter of Death and Slayer of Lies. Her henchmen believe she is ideal, impregnable and some tales say she can't be killed. They know her only as mysterious figure, not as a person. Sooner or later, she will find herself without her advisors and guards, perhaps even without her dragons. She w… [view original content]
Dany's story is one of my favorites that is going on. I've only read the first book, so beyond that all I have to go on is the show. I will say I agree that i'd like to see her be vulnerable a bit more often. I do think the reason we really don't see that is that she's often in the company of her followers. We don't really see her alone. The scene of her having to chain up her dragons stood out because it obviously hurt her but she was also alone in that act. I understand, with her position, she's not going to be left alone very much but I think that could help quite a bit with people who are of this same mindset. As far as Emilia herself, I don't have a problem with her. It will be nice seeing her in a different light in the new Terminator movie. She's beautiful and could have a great career ahead of her outside of GoT.
Those are good points you have, and I'm sure we can keep dragging this comparison across a few more pages... But I feel like the final summary would be simple - both Dany and Stannis have pros and cons; one of them is clearly better in one thing, though the other one remains superior in something else.
Let's say we shoudn't argue about the taste, and end this disscusion (really enjoyable one) with the premission for everyone to like whoever they want. Cheers, friend.
Sorry it took some time, I've been busy.
All good. I'm going to try and keep my reply brief here.
That's why I don't like them… more. Beautiful ladies doing nothing but looking pretty and powerful. But no offense, it's personal preference.
I don't know, I just feel like not everyone is meant to be a fighter... right? Daenarys just isn't really built for that kind of role. I honestly think it would be a little ridiculous for her to be out on the battlefield... unless she had her dragons helping her out or something. I understand you preferring characters that are kind of badass ala Stannis, it just seems odd to bring this up as a particular reason (or part of) to hate a character.
She has made herself as Daughter of Death and Slayer of Lies. Her henchmen believe she is ideal, impregnable and some tales say she can't be killed. They know her only as mysterious figure, not as a person.
I'm just not really seeing how… [view original content]
Tyrion and Jon currently are carrying the show. Arya is gone to Bravvos. Sansa is Sansa. Daenerys is not compelling as a character (then she tied up her dragons...now she might get interesting rather than tedious to watch.) Jaime is still broken, but regaining composure. Cersei is still a cunt (damn fine acting I'd say.) The Hound is MIA (I stick to the theory he's still alive.) Brienne is oathbound and Podrick follows. Stannis is odd, but Melisandra is still alive and controlling him (Other then Joffrey, this bitch needs to DIE. Fuck Rhelor and his, ''I can heal you no matter how you're killed'' bullshit.)
Damn nit-picking threads are the worst...
Daenerys's and Jon Snow's stories are my sole reasons why I still watch GOT. Without those two there is no show.
That is incredibly ignorant. Remember how many people actually hated Jack Gleeson because of Joffrey? Not saying it was the main reason he q… moreuit as an actor, but he has expressed that after his acting career in GoT he no longer feels the same way about acting. Please do differentiate an actor or actress from their character. They are human beings, not someone you can hate for a role they play. Emilia seems like an incredibly warm, funny and good human being... GoT is basically her first real acting job. The woman has her whole future ahead of her. It'd be sad if fans ruined her career because of all the hate.
Personally, since ep1 I thought that no one from TV cast just gave a fig, except for Ramsay's VA, he was all in. But Ramsay was pretty much the only canon character who's actions were always kind of in-character and had any real (and painful) effect, also he appeared a lot, so no surprise here.
Comments
So Stannis, who burned people alive just because of their religion (inquisition) is not as close to Hitler as Daenerys, who crucified the slave masters, yes, but because they crucified innocent children, leaving them in pain and to rot? IMO, that was much more fair than the executions Stannis did.
According to your logic, any judge that condemned a child murderer to death is closer to Hitler than an Inquisition member.
Just saying he isnt that good of a leader.
The religion burns... Well yeah they can be used as an argument against show!Stannis but in the books he kills only for treason. And you see because there was one messed up (by D&D) scene in the show is not going to change my opinion of Stannis, because the book!Stannis is still the original Stannis.
And clearly the slaver masters had some kind of eh... "democracy" (meaning between the nobles) so Dany can't blame them all even if the majority had voted for killing those children. And this is even brought up in the show when Hizdhar zo Loraq tells his father voted against it and still got crucified. And as I said I do not see Dany as equal to Hitler, but with her way of ruling she is closer to it than Stannis. Stannis is more direct in his ruling, and he sees himself as servant of the realm as it is his duty to lead it. That is nothing like Hitler, Hitler saw that the nation existed for him, not the other way round. Dany... Well she is a teenager, maybe a better fit to rule than some average teenager but still a teenager.
Correct me If I'm wrong but didn't Stannis stop save the NW by stopping Mance's army? Stannis also assimilated the Wildlings providing them safety from the others. He's done more for the NW than anyone has done in a very long time considering he saved them from utter destruction.
Jon Snow's solution was wrong considering it would have probably meant the utter destruction of all the free-folk. Innocent children and the rest of the lot would have been massacred simply because they were born on the wrong side of the wall. It seems to me the more plausible solution is too assimilate them wildlings and enlist them to your army where they can help you restore Westoros (Removing Freys and Boltons from any source of power)
Stannis left the Wall simply because he had to. He got involved in rescuing Winterfell after the clans agreed to fight with him. Also, he couldn't stay due to the Night's Watch promise that they will avoid any conflict and does not stand on either side of any war.
I don't remember anything like that. Aemon only says that Stannis's sword gives off no heat, so it couldn't be the true Lightbringer, and Stannis can't be Azor Ahai (according to Aemon's words).
And Dany is burning everyone that doesn't agree to live in her new world. Tie.
Because he wanted to keep fighting in the heat of the battle in high adrenaline? And obviously he calmed down in time and fled with his men or his head would still be rotting on a pike at King's Landing.
He still wanted to fight after getting almost all of the ships blown up, and he refused to back down when losing, he was even told to retreat. Staying to fight and dying? Thats not what a good leader does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWiDFWkveqo
Tannis Tantrum at 8:11
I haven't seen to much of the show but I've seen a few scenes with her she is beautiful and enchanting to watch I love dragon gurl
Why not? She can be a fighter, if not by wielding a sword in battle, at least by leaving her tent and helping people with her royal presence. Would you fight for someone you don't know or haven't seen, that you only heard some stories about? I wouldn't.
I kinda did burst with anger at the very first page of this thread, you might look it up if you want.
Anyway... I've been disliking her since I first read her chapters in the book, it's not about "following the trend" or something, however after the slave situation I started to hate her so damn much.
First off, I feel like her story has become unstable and too chaotic to enjoy it. In addition, I don't like Essos and find uninteresting everything related to it (perhaps it's the reason of why I don't like Asher's storyline).
Secondly, I think that Dany is not made for the political world of being a Queen, yet the people she freed believe "Mhysa" is perfect, happily thinking she has ended all of their problems. She has so many good advices around her, yet she doesn't use them at all, falling in love with a manipulative sellsword captain instead. She is called the mother of dragons, but she can't put them to any use, which finally ends with a tragedy.
Finally, she wants to be a Queen of all (including Westeros), but she was fed with her brother's lies and ended up misinformed about Targaryen's past. Then, she refuses to learn anything about Westeros from good old wise ser Barristan. How does she want to rule a kingdom without the knowlege about it? Also, I'm afraid people of Westeros would not accept her, with dragons flying around and eating kids, and the army of mercenaries killing anyone who refuse to bend the knee.
Personally, I don't get it why people like Daenerys, obviously ignoring such arguments like "duh, she is one hot chick and has those awesome dragons".
Dolorous Edd is hillarious.
She has had zero training, and is not physically capable enough to be doing any fighting against trained soldiers. There isn't any reason why she should risk getting herself hurt (or even killed) out there, considering she can't really do anything to actually protect herself. It doesn't really make sense to have her around during a battle, as it only adds another objective to whatever the goal already is (as in they would have to worry about protecting her). She doesn't need to have a presence on the battlefield in order for her subjects to care about her. She has made herself readily available to her people + her army as it is. It's not as if she is some sort of mysterious figure that they have never personally heard from.
I think it's awesome that Stannis fights alongside his army, but Dany's personal situation is vastly different from his own. I think you can give him props without criticizing Dany for not being able to do the same, because again, their situations aren't comparable.
Could you be a little more specific? Of course she lacks experience at this point, but that's the only real negative that I can specifically think of. She certainly doesn't ignore the advice around her. The last interaction she had with Jorah before sending him away was her changing her own plans according to what he advised her to do. I think it would be one thing if she was ignoring advice and then making poor decisions, but that hasn't been the case. I do think she should have kept better control of her dragons, though she seemed to think she had them under control. At least she took responsibility afterwards, I suppose.
She seems to understand that... which is why she chained her dragons up at the end of season four. The whole point of that scene was to show that she wasn't just going to let them run wild anymore. As for mercenaries killing anyone who refuses to bend the knee, it seems odd to bring that up as a negative when you like Stannis, a man who has openly admitted that he will destroy anyone who gets in his way. Anyone who openly speaks out against himself, Melisandre, or their particular religious views gets burned alive. Easily more cruel/ harsh than simply cutting through those who violently oppose you.
I'll add that I personally don't think Danaerys is a flawless person by any means at all, I simply don't see where all of this strong hate is coming from.
she is beautiful and enchanting to watch
XD every time I see her on tv ^
Damn nit-picking threads are the worst...
Daenerys's and Jon Snow's stories are my sole reasons why I still watch GOT. Without those two there is no show.
I think your confused and need to re-read the book. In the book "Treason" to stannis is following the old gods or any other religion also.
In a Davos chapter Davos almost gets burned himself after saying "She's a foreigner, preaching a foreign religion." to Stannis about the Red Priestess. Davos ends up having to swear to the Red priestesses faith or be burned. Davos got lucky since him and Stannis go way back, any one else that questioned the faith R'hllor was burned on the spot.
Jon Snow even has to send Maester Aemon and Mance Rayder's baby away on boat down south with Sam to protect them from Stannis and the Red woman's notoriously monstrous sacrifices.
As for Dany and the Crucifixions, they were still slave masters for Christ sake. The lot of them that were crucified were horrible people that have worked slaves to death and sold them like property. Not all slaves were treated well. The majority of slaves were living horrible lives that's why Dany was able to win so many to her side.
How can you even stand to defend slave masters? Spartacus would like to have a word with you.
Maester Aemon tells Jon that Staniss is the false king and will ruin the realm before suggest to Jon to send him, Sam, and Mance's baby to the south on a boat even though it would mean certain death for Aemon. Before Aemon dies he even tells Sam to tell the master maesters to send support to dany the true ruler.
Who has Dany really burned with her dragons other than a slave masters that have tormented, tortured and worked slaves like unsullied to death? Please don't be ignorant about slave masters being horrible people. They deserved it.
Burning people based on their religion (Stannis) is way different than burning slave masters. There is no fucking tie.
Emilia is fine. I have no qualms with her acting.
And I don't so much dislike Dany as much as I don't think she should rule. She is terrible at the game of politics and thinks too much with her heart than her head. (and I am not a Stannis loyalist, I honestly don't want either of them on the throne.)
I love Daenarys and Emilia Clarke come at me haters.
Body is too round? Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.
Agreed
Well give me the chapters where Stannis burns anyone because of religion and I'll check.
Slavery is wrong, but if Dany wants to stop slavery she should have a better plan for it and pretty much own her life for that. Now she is just "imma go to slaverz bay and kill all slaverz and then go to westerooos". In other words destroy the old system without having a decent plan on how to re-build it without slavery and just abandon the place because she needs to go and take back her throne that was taken by monsters like Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark from his heavenly saint father Mad King Aerys.
Look at photos of her when she was young. The same description could have applied to her then... or to many of the British royals, for that matter. Few royals from Britain or elsewhere had/have the perfect body you speak of.
same here girrrl.
Emilia really has some tough luck. I have recently started hating her as an actress simply because I hate her role as Dany. You know you are fucked when playing a badly written character starts affecting your own career. I know I should differentiate between her as an actress and her role, but she has been doing it for so long that I can't help but let these two things slowly become one.
I know for a fact that I already don't want to see her face in any more shows or films anymore. I might not be the only one who feels that way, too.
That is incredibly ignorant. Remember how many people actually hated Jack Gleeson because of Joffrey? Not saying it was the main reason he quit as an actor, but he has expressed that after his acting career in GoT he no longer feels the same way about acting. Please do differentiate an actor or actress from their character. They are human beings, not someone you can hate for a role they play. Emilia seems like an incredibly warm, funny and good human being... GoT is basically her first real acting job. The woman has her whole future ahead of her. It'd be sad if fans ruined her career because of all the hate.
I read shes gonna be in the next Terminator movie. Will be good to see her doing a different role.
I didn't read the books but I watch the tv show and Daenerys has been one of my favorite characters from the beginning. I'm always looking forward to her scenes in the show and I find her story very interesting. She has the most epic scenes in the show and she seems to support good causes. I know she's not perfect, every character have their own flaws and it's a good thing because otherwise they would be boring.
I was very surprised to see that so many people seem to hate her and I really can't understand why. Concerning the actress, I watched some of her interviews and she seems to be a nice person, I think she did a great job on this character.
Listen, I don't want to argue who should sit on the Ugly Iron Chair or who is the better king, regardless of who said what. I'm talking about who I like better, and this is primarily based on one's character, which is perceived differently by different people. As much as I like Stannis, I don't think he will ever be the King. It doesn't sound very Martin-like.
It all depends on perspective. Horrible or wonderfull, they are people, and I bet that not all the masters were brutal, crude or abusive. Let's not be ignorant, there are other ways to change someone's point of view and and come to an agreement. Dany is a liar, dissembler and extremely bloody murderer. She reaches one city and gets angry about how bad the slaves live, so she decides to change that. Sudden whim of a teenager, suprised by the reality of the cruel world. She broke the thousand-year tradition, filling the gutters with blood, and expecting it made everything better. No matter how much unfair and derogatory Slaver's Bay reign was, this part of the world knew no other laws, especially that some of the slaves enjoyed their way of life. Dany can't expect slaves to just fit into the paradise she burned out of those cities policy.
How is that different? People are dead, no matter what had killed them. Also, it's not Stannis who burns, it's Melisandre. And the relationship between those two is a topic for a different discussion.
Sorry it took some time, I've been busy.
That's why I don't like them. Beautiful ladies doing nothing but looking pretty and powerful. But no offense, it's personal preference.
She has made herself as Daughter of Death and Slayer of Lies. Her henchmen believe she is ideal, impregnable and some tales say she can't be killed. They know her only as mysterious figure, not as a person. Sooner or later, she will find herself without her advisors and guards, perhaps even without her dragons. She won't defeat her enemies by using titles.
Yeah. Its hard to compare those two on an equal level, but then again, my point wasn't to create a competition. I just like Stannis more, and one of the reasons is that he fights alongside his soldiers.
Of course. "I value your advice, but if you ever question me in front of strangers again, you'll be advising someone else. Is that understood?" Dany has two character flaws that I find very difficult to deal with: arrogance and a deluded sense of being morally superior to other people. When something is morally right to her, it ends a discussion (even if it doesn't, what makes her a hypocrite). Ser Barristan is constantly advising her to split the personal feelings and emotions Queen needs to restrain, but she keep ignoring him (and for example, sleeps with Dario). She claims to be liberating people when is actually just ruling them.
Delusional attitude can be interesting in villains, but current Dany would be a ridiculous one. Though if Martin took a turn and made her more villian like specified, perhaps I would enjoy her chapters more.
Again, Melisandre is the one who burns people alive. At first, she manipulated and successfully decieved Stannis, and he was being an idiot for letting her do it. That felt real, true. Stannis was blind by the prophecy, he was clearly believing that he must keep going, no matter what.
Personal opinion: Stannis believes in Melisandre’s powers because he’s seen them, but this doesn’t mean he believes in her god. I feel like Stannis thinks there are no gods. He believes in his duty and the sword that helps to make it, like Geralt of Rivia. He believes in what he sees, even if he must take some random god into account. Even Melisandre herself is aware of this.
Just to be clear, I don't support Stannis for letting Mel burn people. But while everyone hates him for that, they support and applaud Dany for doing exact the same.
All good. I'm going to try and keep my reply brief here.
I don't know, I just feel like not everyone is meant to be a fighter... right? Daenarys just isn't really built for that kind of role. I honestly think it would be a little ridiculous for her to be out on the battlefield... unless she had her dragons helping her out or something. I understand you preferring characters that are kind of badass ala Stannis, it just seems odd to bring this up as a particular reason (or part of) to hate a character.
I'm just not really seeing how she could be doing anything different than what she already is doing. She makes herself available to her people, to the extent that she will hold sessions lasting hours just to personally meet with anyone wishing to speak with her/ raise their concerns. What else should she specifically be doing to become more familiar with her people/ army? She isn't really any more cut off from her people than any other leader in the show has been. In fact, I would argue that she has been more available/ friendly to her followers than any other leader that we have seen so far.
Robb Stark was idolized and idealized by his followers. Do you count that as a negative against him as well? If anything, I think the the fact that Dany is idealized by her people shows how much they actually do care for both her motives and herself as a person/leader.
It's kind of getting muddied at this point, but I'll just say again that my original comment was aimed at those who hate Dany specifically because of her personality, but also happen to like Stannis, who carries several of Dany's perceived negative personality qualities.
Had a feeling you were going to mention this. I don't think that has to do with her not caring about advice that is given to her, and more so not wanting to look weak in front of a potential enemy. Either way, this is a one time case of her shooting down advice given to her. Typically she doesn't do this at all, and instead readily listens to the advice of the people around her (whether she ultimately ends up siding with that advice or not).
I get that, but Stannis is still the one calling the shots, and making things happen. Manipulated or not, he certainly has a very cruel side to him. Easily more so than Daenarys.
Dany hasn't intentionally killed innocent, good people though. I highly doubt she would execute someone simply for speaking out against her. What has she done that is on par with Stannis's cruelty? She dealt with the slave masters pretty harshly, but they were by no means innocent people, and she punished them according to how they were treating their very own slaves. Maybe it wasn't flawless justice, but it was meant as so (in a moral sense).
Dany's story is one of my favorites that is going on. I've only read the first book, so beyond that all I have to go on is the show. I will say I agree that i'd like to see her be vulnerable a bit more often. I do think the reason we really don't see that is that she's often in the company of her followers. We don't really see her alone. The scene of her having to chain up her dragons stood out because it obviously hurt her but she was also alone in that act. I understand, with her position, she's not going to be left alone very much but I think that could help quite a bit with people who are of this same mindset. As far as Emilia herself, I don't have a problem with her. It will be nice seeing her in a different light in the new Terminator movie. She's beautiful and could have a great career ahead of her outside of GoT.
Those are good points you have, and I'm sure we can keep dragging this comparison across a few more pages... But I feel like the final summary would be simple - both Dany and Stannis have pros and cons; one of them is clearly better in one thing, though the other one remains superior in something else.
Let's say we shoudn't argue about the taste, and end this disscusion (really enjoyable one) with the premission for everyone to like whoever they want. Cheers, friend.
Tyrion and Jon currently are carrying the show. Arya is gone to Bravvos. Sansa is Sansa. Daenerys is not compelling as a character (then she tied up her dragons...now she might get interesting rather than tedious to watch.) Jaime is still broken, but regaining composure. Cersei is still a cunt (damn fine acting I'd say.) The Hound is MIA (I stick to the theory he's still alive.) Brienne is oathbound and Podrick follows. Stannis is odd, but Melisandra is still alive and controlling him (Other then Joffrey, this bitch needs to DIE. Fuck Rhelor and his, ''I can heal you no matter how you're killed'' bullshit.)
no can do. First impressions always stick with me. Unfortunately for her, her first impression on me was a horrible one.
shallow much?
Unnecessary Necro Bump.
Personally, since ep1 I thought that no one from TV cast just gave a fig, except for Ramsay's VA, he was all in. But Ramsay was pretty much the only canon character who's actions were always kind of in-character and had any real (and painful) effect, also he appeared a lot, so no surprise here.