Why I believe Ser Royland Degore isn't the Traitor.
In episode one, he always speak his mind and is blunt about his opinion on Ethan, calling him a milksop. While he’s not nice, he is at least honest about it. He is honest about his desire to fight the Whitehills and his hotheaded nature also shows his honesty as he is clearly affected by Ethan's dead. Try and compare Ethan's death scene with Duncan and Royland, I can assure you, you can clearly hear a noticeable differences. Duncan has a subtle grief while Royland was outright shouting in his grief. Also, while the Whitehills quickly restrained Duncan, the Whitehills has to use force to stop Royland while he was attempting to run to Ethan's side.
In episode two and three, Royland maintains this attitude. He is still a hothead but he is always honest about his desire to fight the Whitehills. I don't think he would intentionally sabotage their plans to fight the Whitehills as he seems like the type that wants to win the fight. During the climax of episode three, Rodrik can order Royland to stand down or fight the Whitehills even though he has no chance. He would listen to both order. He also say this line about Rodrik to Gryff: Even broken, he is twice the man you are.
Yeah, he's an asshole and gets quickly angered. All of his actions are pretty much based on his own anger through these past episodes. Some people might raise the card on him being a great strategist and that lately, he’s not been acting like the strategist he's said to be, so that obviously makes him the traitor because he's trying to sabotage them and passively help the Whitehills destroy the remaining Forresters. No.
So, I'll raise you all this: Royland lost his family and his house to a similar situation. We're not completely sure where his house was located or where it happened, but the Ironborn did wipe out his family and for him being the only survivor-- he's probably gotten really freaking attached to the Forresters because they took him in after the Greyjoy Rebellion.
Emotions cloud everyone's judgement, and in his anger and remembrance, he probably wants to act as soon as possible to save them not condemn them. You could argue waiting is the best strategy but if they wait too long and they're going to get crushed. Plus, as I've said before, his anger at the Whitehills probably clouds his better judgement. The loss of his family and the fear of it happening again probably makes him want to prevent it at all costs. So, he calls for the more violent path and every choice he wants to make is to fight-- this also connects to his anger issue. He's known for his temper in Ironrath. He doesn’t want to wait, he wants to act.
And to me, Telltale's set up a bit of Angel and Devil on the player's shoulders. With Royland, he is definitely the Devil, but only because of his anger, his need to act, and general actions that are clouded by his judgement; whilst he is balanced by Duncan who tries to keep things as peaceful as possible in Ironrath while still trying to help Rodrik.
And I have seen a lot of crazy theories about his family and getting revenge by joining the Whitehills and the Boltons... That revenge was taken with the Siege of Pyke. There isn't anymore revenge to be had on his part. He's probably bought into the hatred and rivalry of the Whitehills from working as the Master-at-Arms for so long at Ironrath and probably dealing with some issues (i.e. Asher and Gwyn; it's said in a line somewhere that Royland fought against Asher's exile, I believe) that included the Whitehills. There might have been attacks from the Whitehills before or the Whitehills trying to encroach on Forrester territory; we don't really know much about the rivalry other than they hate each other. We know he was of a Minor Knightly House, and knowing that, it was probably taught to him by his father that knights don't go against their honor. He holds firm to his own honor and loyalties with the Forresters. And he's spent years with them, he's watched the kids grow, became a friend of Gregor's-- Either way, he's got emotional ties to the Forresters, he wouldn't toss that all aside because "he's on the losing side of this war" or because "he'll join the Whitehills after the Forresters are wiped out and will be respected among them and have high standing" "(insert more bullshit ideas here)".
There's no sense in him joining the Whitehills nor the Boltons. Royland, to me, is a very honest and true northman. He holds honor and loyalty very high in his own code. And he shows that he's a very protective man when it comes to the Forresters. I see no real reason why he'd betray them unless the Whitehills are offering him a deal ( i.e. like resurrecting his fallen house and making him Lord [I think he's bright enough though to know he's not Lord material.] of his house) or forcing him into a position that he can't ignore-- but even then, I see him being the man who'd rather die than turn against the people he's been with for over a decade.
My suspicions as to who the real traitor is: I'm fifty-fifty on Maester Ortengryn and Lady Elissa. Both seem to have some good motives, even if they are quite subtle with the Maester.
- Lady Elissa Forrester - 40%
- Maester Ortengryn - 40%
- Duncan Tuttle - 15%
- Ser Royland Degore - 5%
In also predicting the more possible deaths for this season, I'm sure either Royland or Duncan could die trying to protect one of the Forresters. But I'm leaning more to Ser Royland as he is more expendable in the storyline, even if he chosen to be Sentinel-- Duncan has the backing of the North Grove to keep him alive, but it's really the flip of a coin that will decide either of their deaths. One of them could get horribly maimed instead or suffer the loss of a limb.
Comments
Is awesome
Yes to all of this. You've culminated my thoughts about him in one post.
Also worth noting he actually mentions in Episode 1 that his abrasive attitude is to make them seem stronger than they actually are. If he backed down easily he would just let everyone know how weak they are - so in being himself he's trying to protect the house.
Exactly my thoughts. Royland states that this is time that the Forresters have to portray strength regardless of what has happened. To show weakness now, means that the Whitehills (and the Boltons in extension) can further assert authority over them. It already occurred in Episode two with Ludd declaring that they're going to take all the Ironwood regardless of what happens or what Ramsay said.
Agreed 100%, fantastic read. You really did great work with this ^-^
( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Sorry, had to. :]
Thanks! I'm very passionate about this asshole and just some of the theories and ideas out there are out of character for him. So, I thought I would throw in my own two cents.
I just found the exact quote: "You've got to project power, especially when you're weakened."
Your post is the best argument, that I've seen, for Royland NOT being the traitor. Honestly, out of all the council members in Ironrath, he's the one I trust 100% and the one I feel is least likely to betray the house. The only person I'd be disappointed with if they were revealed to be the traitor is Royland and that's because it goes against everything that's been established about him within the first three episodes.
I also agree about Royland, but feel almost just as passionately about Duncan. Something most people don't realize about Duncan is that he was Lord Gregor Forresters BEST friend through childhood and adulthood. He was castellan of Ironrath, meaning he was entrusted with the governance and defense of the hold in Lord Forresters absence. He was also the ONLY person Lord Forrester trusted with the knowledge of the North Grove. Tell me, why didn't Lord Forrester share this information with his own wife? On top of that, he is putting his nephews life at risk by asking him to abandon the Night's Watch. That is a death sentence, not to mention all the dangers that lie north of the wall. Would he do this to one of his very own family members and convince him "it's for the good of the Forresters" if he had another agenda in mind? Like flip flopping and joining the Whitehills? It is for this reason that I feel it HAS to be Maester Ortengryn or Lady Forrester. Ortengryn less so, simply because aside from "sitting pretty" he doesn't really have a motive other than survival. Lady Forrester has motive. The Whitehills have her "baby," her youngest son, and could be very well manipulating her by threatening his safety. So many say that she could easily tell Rodrik and they could use the situation to their advantage and feed Ludd Whitehill false info while planning a different strategy, however, when you're blackmailing someone, you take into account the idea of them lying to or tricking you and you go to great measures to ensure they know the consequences of such acts. The consequence of Lady Forrester sharing Ludd Whitehills plan with Rodrick could be Ryon's death.
Multiple times, she has done "what she felt was best" behind the backs of her family members. Two times we've seen her act behind the scenes against two different Lords. With Ethan as Lord, she instructed Malcom to go get Asher. Had Malcom not informed Ethan, he would've probably never known about it. With Rodrick as Lord, she sent a raven to Ludd Whitehill asking for Ryon to be allowed to attend the funeral.
Twice, she went behind the backs of the LORD of Ironrath, both of them being her sons, because she was looking out for the best interests of her families and sons. Both times, she had the opportunity to consult said Lord/son before going through with the plan.
The way she acted at the funeral when she went on her whole "kill, kill all the Whitehills. Make them pay," to me didn't convey strength. It conveyed weakness, instability, and sheer hate without the slightest inclination of logic. She obviously hates them, and what better reason to hate someone so passionately that you would ask your own child to murder an entire family then being blackmailed with the betrayal of one son over the life of another?
She just lost a husband, she just lost a son, she is already traumatized due to having lost her entire family in the past...
It HAS to be Lady Forrester. Anyone else, aside from Ortengrynn, who if he is doing it for his own survival simply isn't that smart(and he's a doctor, so I wouldn't put his intelligence into question) because he's not a person of interest, they'd have no real reason to kill him but more likely utilize his skill if it came down to all out war, would be illogical and a slap in the face.
Let's not forget a few other details:
Start paying attention to detail, people. Too many times have I seen Duncan accused of being the traitor, when there is so much more evidence pointing to it being Lady Forrester, and so little evidence pointing towards anyone else(Ortengrynn, Royland, Talia[lulz])
Definitely 100% agree. Royland is a solid guy and if I was in these events, I'd trust Royland alone with my life, because he's the only council member that shows full honesty with Rodrik and Ethan, even if he puts it very bluntly. He's got a sharp tongue for being so blunt about things. Telltale could make a twist in the storyline for WOW factor by saying the man you had chosen for Sentinel is the Traitor or make him traitor if he wasn't made Sentinel, but that just seems lazy unless they add ulterior motives behind being the traitor. It would also be completely out of character. I believe he's the one solid guy we have on the council and everyone else is just shady.
I knew it, Duncan was bit suspicious and Royland isnt the traitor! He hate the WhiteHills and Duncan, gryff even said to ducan "he is my dog now" and it just made feel that Duncan could be the traitor.
Yeah. Duncan is a bit suspicious, but to me, he's also got way too much backing that prevents him from being the Traitor. Duncan does do things behind his lord's back, i.e. sending Gared to the Wall and talking to Gwyn Whitehill; however, he's the only one that Gregor trusted most about the North Grove, and he's really got nothing to gain from betraying the Forresters. His family was killed by the Whitehills and the Boltons, no matter what, a person would hold a grudge against the men who killed part of their family. Gryff's line of "He's my loyal dog now too." could be said because he submits so easily to the Whitehills because he wants to prevent the weakened house from being wiped out. Duncan's also a real northman as well. From what I've seen of him, he also holds to his loyalties and honor, even if his way of going about things are a different approach to Ser Royland's.
I, again, will say that Telltale could try to use the WOW factor with us by trying to make it the people we are to less likely think betray the Forresters, but Duncan and Royland don't have good enough motives for it-- plus, it'd be very out of character for the both of them.
Ser Royland Degore Team
Team Degore all the way. Only man I truly trust in the game.
I have a feeling that the entire council is going to find out there's a traitor, and Royland and Duncan's relationship will lead to them jumping on each other at the earliest opportunity. They'll have a shouting match, each thinking the other is the traitor, but neither of them actually are.
Oh yes. I can see that occurring with how those two seem to go at it in the previous episodes. And nobody seems to be able to calm them down other than Rodrik or Lady Forrester. But I think it would be similar to the argument about Ethan's death and they'd have to be restrained or something since from what we've know and seen, their arguments can get blindly heated.
I bet you feel like a moron now. I put a sword right through your hero's belly.
Haha, too much for all of these "You're right" gifs.
He shouldn't feel like a moron. This is TTG's fuck up. So out of character for Royland. OP should have been correct with this thread.
Edit: Whoops. Meant to respond to @RodForrester . My bad.
My apologies that was actually pretty rude of me, I should have looked more into the issue rather then charging straight into the forums like a half wit! Royland was such a damn jerk about the whole thing it just really pissed me off. And I agree with the other guy, the behavior he exhibited in that scene was reaaaallly out of character.
Hm, hm. Yeah-- Thanks. I get it. Royland was pretty much an asshole about it when he was revealed as the traitor, which is gladly, true to his character, he's an asshole & blunt & pretty much will bite your head off if given the chance. But this is so out of character for both Duncan & Royland. Duncan... I could see but only in the most dire of circumstances with him trying to buy peace, but not how like both did it. It was a fuck up on Telltale's part because they went with the shock value of one of your father's most two trusted men being a traitor to you because you were weak/reckless, which is stupid. But especially out of character for Royland because he's always seemed to be the most loyal but one little fuck up from a child & he's done? lol. well fuck that. & yeah-- sure, Royland's my favorite, but doesn't mean I was glorifying him or he was "my hero" as you so eloquently put it.
ME TEAM !!!