Who was to blame for the S2 group's downfall
I've been thinking and I want to hear some opinions. There were several things that made the second season's group look weak and die out way too early. But if you had to pick someone who you felt was the most responsible who would it be? I'm stuck between a few people I know Kenny and even Arvo had some part in it but I think it was mostly Jane tbh
1. First of all she added to Kenny's bull shit plan to leave Howe's. Even though it was Kenny's plan I'd still like to say it was her that carried it out.
2. Leaving Howe's,
3. Sarah Situation
4. She caused everything that happened with the Russians. YES EVERYTHING even Luke's death. Look at the facts, Jack. Robbing Arvo and threatening him- the shootout- Luke shot and death- Arvo's sister dying and Clementine getting shot
5. The whole segment with Kenny
I know I was supposed to feel bad about Jane dying but meh I kinda laughed, if there wasn't ever someone more deserving
Comments
I wouldn't say it was anyone part of the group, if anything IMO it was Carver. The group was extremely safe in the cabin where it was isolated from other people, and they had a water and food source nearby being the river. The downfall started with Carver being the problem, and the affect Carver had on the group after he died (the loss of Carlos in the hoard due to escaping his camp, etc) ended the group mainly. I also believe that the shootout was entirely Arvo's fault and no one elses.
since someone is going to inevitably say it, let's just get it out of the way right now:
the writers
But in all honesty, Carver, Kenny, and Jane
Carver, because he's the one that caught them and put them in the situation in the first place. Never get caught > No compound to escape > No casualties that result from the escape and the events thereafter
Kenny, because his gung-ho attitude and anger issues put them in danger multiple times (the herd plan, which Jane arguably made better and safer by bringing up the walker guts), and drove a wedge through the group (mostly in episode 5. Pushing Arvo over the edge, scaring everyone else into trying to leave, and finally prompting Jane to take some kind of action against him)
Jane, for indirectly helping instigate the gunfight, as well as serving an indirect role in Sarah's second death
Technically it was however, Jane took it upon herself to take his gun and threaten him thus making the situation worse even after he told Clementine he was going to go
Carver. Like Green said, the cabin was safe and isolated, and the source of food being the river. Then Carver came and forced everyone to hid camp.
True, but Arvo didn't have to come back, it was his own want for revenge that caused it to happen.
In my Opinion, it was Kenny AND Jane.
Jane:
Kenny:
I also agree that it was Carver. Kenny & Jane also made some bad decisions.
Although it didn't really effect the game, Nick's decision to shoot the poor guy was also a bad decision.
Kenny and Jane (and potentially Clementine), and their stupid decision to walk through the herd. If they'd just followed Luke's plan and stuck around until the herd blew over they'd have been able to think of a much better plan and come out fine.
Kenny...
Eh I disagree, the herd was way too much for the people in the camp that actually had guns, imagine how problematic it would have been for them in there without guns, plus if Carvers people were still alive, they wouldn't give Clem's group the chance to escape (hence why escaping at that exact time was the best plan.). I like to think of it this way, if you're in a building that's being engulfed in flames, would you try to escape first, or think of a better plan/ fight it off? The obvious answer would be to get the hell out of there :P
I'd say Carver caused most of the damage, then the group finished itself off.
It all makes sense now. Jane is to blame!
Orrr, everyone is. All of them could have done more to prevent the fall of the group but stupid plans and explosive, argumentative behaviour caused them to be an unstable group that was going to die no matter what they did. Also Carver is partly to blame because he came after them just to get Rebecca back, which caused a lot of death and then he kept causing problems after that. So you know... Carver was wrong. They aren't careful people because if they were they'd still be alive.
That bad guy who got his own theme song in this game just to portray how sinister he was, Carver. He wanted that baby badly and it seems nothing would stop him from getting to him. Since the baby is in Rebecca and the she's with the group, Carver decides to be a problem for everyone.
Oh please, Jane wasn't to blame for the fall of the group...>.> Telltale was, they're the source of the despair!
Space Aliens, the illuminati, or the reptilians, take you pick.
STILL LIVIN LIKE A DOPE DEAER,
Jane. I blame her so much because she wanted me to leave my own friend behind to die, I told her that we should talk peacefully to Arvo, she even agreed but she just ditched her agreatment thus making him ambush Clem's group getting Luke killed. Oh, almost forgot, Jane made Luke an offer which caused him to ditch his job letting the group spot the walkers instead, causing Sarah to die. Who had the idea to have Jane in the game and gave her much development? [Mod edit: Removed insult against writers]
You're right! Telltale made Jane destroy the group
Clementine.
If she hadn't been found by the cabin group, Pete wouldn't have died. If Pete hadn't died, the rest of the group wouldn't have went out looking for Nick, Pete, and Clementine, and Carver would have never found Pete's body. If they never left the cabin, and if Carver still did find the cabin, the cabin group inside could have easily killed him.
Or Reggie because he let them escape the first time.
Their own internal problems combined with Carver's involvement.
Pete would have died no matter if Clementine found that group. Not like Carver killed those men just because Clementine joined the group.
If they never brought Clem, I think it's personally reasonable to think Pete could have avoided death. Clem was the only reason they went down that morning right?
Fishing at first light and then stumbling upon what appears to be Carver's assault on a group of people. Nothing to do with Clementine at all.
Clementine kills everyone she is just plain bad luck
I was always under the expression that they went there because they wanted to show Clementine the fish traps.
Pete and Nick were going there to get breakfast, Clementine was just along for the ride. Everything went to shit when they discovered the dead bodies and Pete getting reckless.
JANE OBVIOUSLY.
No I actually think if we want to look really far back, we have to blame Lee for saving Clementine all the way back in Season 1. For all we know, the Cabin Group was fine until Clementine came along. Therefore, it is Lee's act of heroism that led to the downfall of the Cabin Group.
Seeing how almost everyone blames Carver, I'm gonna step in and say that the Cabin Group shouldn't have left Howe's at the first place.
They were completely unprepared and unaware of the danger waiting on the outside. It seems pretty thoughtless that they decided to escape mainly because Luke didn't agree with Carver's methods. In my opinion, things would've been better if they stayed at Howe's (or at least wait for the baby).
Let's summarize everything:
sheltered child with an anxiety problems suddenly faced the danger of the outside world, without CG expecting her lack of knowledge to be a potential problem to the whole group;
a woman in advanced pregnancy was forced to marsh through the unknown area, CG couldn't know they would find any shelter for Junior to be born, considering the forest ain't exactly as safe place as Howe's, the baby's life was exposed to a much greater danger;
they endangered Howe's community by destroying some parts of the building, potentially allowing walkers to snuck in and attack someone, especially noticing how many walkers were close to the walls and at the parking lot;
they were credulous and careless, their unpreparedness caused the death of Nick's mom, and Nick himself being "the danger of the group";
also, they were pretty disorganized, this is the reason of why Kenny overshadowed them so easily;
Reggie lost his arm because of them (not confirmed, yet possible);
they haven't got enough supplies to survive longer period of time, fish traps don't solve the problem, what about the medical supplies, ammunition, candles, etc;
Alvin killed George and Rebecca escaped with the baby - they angered and humiliated Carver who was determined enough to hunt them down however long it takes, like it or not, he had the right to seek revenge and raise his child; also, group of sane people expected an organized community to not notice the biggest cabin in North Carolina.
That's why I like S2, because it tells the story about the real, average people lost in the apocalipse, not bunch of dehumanized survivors.
Reggie lost his arm because he was bitten and Mike cut it off.
That was what he said. Possibly a lie
Proof please. Because he said that? Words are wind.
He said Mike saved his life, it's most likely chopping his bitten arm.
It's actually Rebecca's fault.
If she never had s3x with Carver, he would've never came after the Cabin Survivors. They'd all still be there.
Kenny. Cmon, Kenny's the reason why they all died. He made bad choices at carvers camp, and he's the one who came up with the plan to escape
Have Mike ever confirmed this story?
But thats like saying anything we were told in the game was a lie. There is no proof or suggestion reggie is lying. Neither carver nor reggie never suggests anything of the sort
Yeah I know, there's a huge room for discussion, but personally I think the punishment is more possible. It's just my opinion, though.
Hold your horses man. EVERYONE IS THE REASON. It's Clem's fault, it's Carlos' fault, it's Walter's fault, it's Jane's fault, it's Bonnie's fault. If anything, Walter is the fucking reason they are dead because he let a stranger go away with food back to his group informing Carver to capture them.
What would you have planned anyway?
No one is really at fault. Everything is just a perfect storm of poor circumstances and good-intended decisions. It's like a butterfly effect