Margaery is ridiculous (Spoilers - through Ch4)
Am I the only one who feels Margaery is overly ridiculous in that she, quite literally, tells you (Mira) to act a certain way to Cersei, complains about not being able to help you "right now" (even if you don't ask for her damn help), brings up how Cersei does things to cause turmoil, then she (Margaery), becomes angry with Mira (no way to avoid it) for not doing a single thing wrong (even if Mira doesn't actively try to help her family and is fully honest) and speaking to Tyrion (even if Mira doesn't ask Tyrion for assistance)?
As awful as Cersei is, I have to put Margaery right up there too. She has done not a single thing to help, complained about "if" she would have helped, claims she wants everything to be okay for Mira/Foresters.... and then complains and threatens to not let her (Mira) be involved in the wedding when Mira did, basically, everything right...
Man.... Mira has it tough. Between Sera the fraud, Cersei the insane, Margaery the weak, Mira's mother the overly reckless, Tyrion the blabbermouth Varys' bird I mean coalbird, an assassination attempt, being forced to make ironwood deals while trying to keep "the weak" not involved and so on and so forth.
I'm surprised she doesn't jump at the first chance to "go home" when Margaery threatens her with it... for no reason! Anyhow, there have been many threads about other characters and I am surprised not many have brought up just how out of the loop and rude, for no reason, Margaery seems. I don't think I have ever heard a person claim what they can't do while claiming that they will help as much as Margaery.
Comments
I totally agree with everything you said. Mira is the one i have the most concerns about out of all the Forresters and Gared. There is no easy answers for her, and everything is just a trap waiting to be sprung.
Margary though. Fuck that bitch, when she threatened to send Mira home i was sitting there yelling at my TV, 'send me fucking home then bitch! I don't know what the hell i'm doing here anyways!' But, i think that someone would just make Mira marry Gryph or another Whitehill (or worse) if she showed up to Ironrath right now.
While i agree with you. I also get where Margaery is coming from. Shes to be queen, anything her handmaidens do, good or bad, reflects on her. She can't have them associating with people in bad standing.
A simple malicious whisper, in the wrong ear, is all it takes to turn a handmaidens good manners into "Margaery is conspiring with whoever for whatever reason"
Gared is another one who, I agree, can't catch a damn break. His Uncle, the "only family he has left", with full knowledge of the penalty for desertion... fucking puts a noose around his neck by telling him to go North and betray his oath. Why the hell can't he "Duncan" do it his damn self. The guy has his family murdered, is banished (basically) from the House to save the house.... and then... his Uncle tells him to betray his oath (while saying "you're the most honorable man I've ever met" - sure Duncan... sure) without even giving him the slightest indication on wtf is going on.
I love this story but... man... some of these characters are so infuriatingly moronic in their decisions. Margaery is the worst (to me) because she plays one way and then punishes someone for doing absolutely not a single thing wrong.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who's pissed at Duncan for what he's done to Gared. Also, I agree with all your sentiments about Margaery as well. I wish Mira could just fuck off on this bullshit, but she has to somehow get the coin to pay off the army her family needs.
I don't know about you guys but I've gone into total "fuck Sera over" mode. Her little catty baloney about being the top handmaiden now (after I covered for her with all her other mess ups before hand) was the end for her. I have Vary's, through Tom, and I don't need Margaery and especially Sera. She is the reason for ALL the crap from shifting the "battle plan" (wedding seating), to stealing the wine, to being a fraud.... then she pulls catty BS mode on Mira? Hell no.... hell... no...
Let's also not forget she puts her own hope to get the D over Mira's families potential death. I may not be able to bring down Margaery, Duncan or Cersei for their blatant behavior but Sera's ass is grass and she will pay the price for all the above.
I like how she thinks she is doing you some massive favor by helping you after Mira has helped her with multiple things. Mira needs to get out of Kings Landing.
Poor Mira. I feel like something majorly bad will happen to her in episode 5. Like, all of the small bad events will lead up to her being completely screwed over (arrested or kicked out of KL). But I think that she's done with everyone's shit and finally beginning to take some control over her life.
This post perfectly summarizes Mira's story in the game so far. http://sutamoristarnoko.tumblr.com/post/121139239520/mira-episodes-1-thru-3-im-fucked-im-fucked-i
Something else I was just considering. Are we to think that we (Mira) are the only person who knows about Sera being a bastard and the Tyrells just randomly renamed her to a once known house that died out 200 years prior? Does that not smell extremely fishy to you guys too considering how anal Margaery is about embarrassments?
Out of all the situations though, it does truly appear that Gared is the most dire. I mean, seriously, what the hell is he supposed to do? He is (basically) a wanted criminal throughout the entire continent now so even if he finds the Grove what the hell is he supposed to do with the information? His only recourse is to join Mance or have (I guess) Stannis pardon him, right? I really just don't see how the hell he is even going to get back unless he is part of Mance's force, attacks CB and then is pardoned but that seems wildly unlikely. I have no clue how he is even going to get beyond the wall, let alone, back to his house with the information from the grove. The guy is a kill on sight and has hundreds of miles between him and anonymity. He's seriously fucked.... thanks Duncan you stupid asshole....
Omfg don't get me started on Duncan. Did he even care about his FAMILY being murdered? He makes likes ONE comment about his family and he hardly sounds upset over it.
Then, he sends his one remaining family member away (and this is BEFORE the North Grove is brought up!) despite there clearly being a whole bunch of other options than going to the Wall. (Like, oh, I don't know, HIDING somewhere that IS NOT House Forrester and just saying that Gared was sent to the Wall? That would sort the Bolton's out. I doubt they'd go check.)
Then, once Gared has taken his vows and decided to begin accepting being a brother, his Uncle shows up and is all 'Oh, I've missed you. I have Ironwood to deliver here. Oh, by the way, you'll need to break the vows you've JUST taken and run off on a suicide mission. K? K, bye.'
My Margaery did try to help with Joffrey but she is in a precarious position. I cant really blame her for being mad that Mirs is making trouble for her, although i wish she was easier to please sometimes.
Agreed, she is so ridiculous your choices with her seems doesn't matter as if you asked her help or not she will still be mad and if you didn't approach to tyrion she will still be mad which is so ridiculous.
I'd attribute it mostly to writing / game design. I love Game of Thrones, but all the interactions are the weakpoint of this game, clearly showing the limits Telltale has for writing a story in this universe.
My Margaery did indeed try to help, but obviously couldn't do a damn thing. My Mira rejected Tyrion at first, but obviously had no other choice the 2nd time. If I did had a choice, I'd be loyal to Margaery. She'd have no reason to be upset with me.
When Margaery told Mira she woudn't let her braid her hair, I gasped... I felt like a lectured child and got a bit dismissive. Yeah, Mira could do great things in King's Landing for her family, but Margaery has denied us her help time and time again. And she's landing in a cell pretty soon, so fuck it. At this point I'm willing to get Mira back to Ironrath, because I always fucking hesistant to make a decision there. I always think: one wrong move and Mira's head will be on a pike.
Telltale really got me there. I feel more vulnerable in King's Landing than in Wildling territory. Because in the end, surrounded by all those people, Mira is still all alone.
Yes, at least Gared has Cotter and/or Finn and maybe Sylvi now too. And before he had Jon's good regard.
Rodrick has the family and the Glenmores now.
Asher has both Malcom and Beskha
But Mira, she cant trust ANYONE. Sera is a gossip, and Tom is Shifty. Cersei is out to get her, Tyrion has been arrested and Margary is a two-faced bitch. Poor Mira IS all alone.
Very true, very true indeed. Considering the next chapters title is "Nest of Vipers" and the (basically) no current connection to the Martell's I think we will likely be dealing with a ton in King's Landing, the true nest of Vipers. Perhaps Vary's will finally reveal he is behind Tom. Dhe certainly could use someone who, at the very least, will have her back with good advice. I wouldn't trust Tom for even a second if it wasn't fairly obvious he is a "little bird".
I said it another post though and will say it here too. There is a serious and likely aggravating secret surrounding Ludd and Lady Forrester. The way Telltale made it a point to show us both portraits, the "loss" of Ludd's wife while having a massive appearance similarity to Lady Forrester, the way Ludd backs down (Ch.1) when Lady Forrester enters the hall while being in rage mode, and the way he says to her (Ch.4) something along the lines of "yes, it's always family to you". I am thinking more and more that either there is some currently unknown relation or Ludd's wife was connected to her. Something to do with Griff too.
I would bet that Ramsay offers to fuck up the Whitehills only for Ludd to come in and confess some off the wall shit that makes us feel bad for him/them. Of course it will center around Lady Forrester but I just can't figure out what it is yet and my theories seem so off the wall.
Yes, I quote Tyrion, 'Kings Landing is a nest of vipers to the uninitiated.'' .
So yes, I am certainly agree. We will be dealing this a ton of shit in Kings Landing.
And your theory is really interesting, it making me curious. Why is Ramsay there but to not cause a load of crap.
Ramsay cares about two things (as far as I am concerned):
1) Being a Bolton/Being Lord Bolton when his Father dies.
2) Getting what he wants through whatever means necessary.
It just so happens that for him to appease both of those he, realistically, needs the Forrester's. I am sure after the Bolton's took over, the Whitehill's made promises that if they had this/that and if they were allowed to this/that then the Bolton's would have all the things they needed but given the recent concessions by Ludd and appearance of Ramsay it is fairly obvious the Whitehill's failed (not to mention Gwynn's mysterious appearance and desire for "peace" too).
Point being, I feel that the Whitehill's failed, galactically failed, and now the Bolton's are assuring the only important thing for them - the acquisition of the products they need. In the end, they couldn't care less where they get it as long as they get it and by "it" I mean exactly the best quality of "it". Ludd thought he could pull a fast one by feigning peace (probably used Gwynn to achieve it) to use the Forresters but (in my playthrough at least), his bluff was called and now he is up shits creek with both the Bolton's and also losing his one bargaining chip (likely) in Ryon.
All that said, I know this is going to sound overly off the wall but given the Codex' background on each character I am starting to feel that Lady Forrester was either (at one time) engaged and loved by Ludd or had some secretive connection with him. For a long time I thought the Maester was the "spy" but more and more I am starting to feel that Lady Forrester isn't exactly a "spy" but she is acting to save BOTH Ryon and... perhaps another? I just haven't decided if that "other" is Ludd or Griff but as Gwynn said, "Griff has always been treated poorly by my family and treated as an outcast." Why? Why when one of the brother (hint, hint) went to the Citadel to become a "Maester" and we know nothing of the other two.
I'm telling you.... Lady Forrester has some connection with the Whitehill's and I am thinking more and more it is something that would piss anyone off.
Did you eavesdrop her conversation with Sera in EP4?
She's trying to turn her against Mira...
Agreed. I have Always distrusted Lady Forrester, and with their interactions, her and Ludd are definitely suspicious. I read a theory from someone on here where the thought was that Asher could be Ludd's son, and that is why the big stink over Asher and Gwynn. This seems a bit farfetched to me but a decent theory nonetheless.
I also agree that next episode will be more focused on King's Landing and it's secrets and plots. I'm not sure about Varys though. I know Tom's model is described as a 'little bird' or something, but i don't necissarily believe that he's Varys' little bird.
After all, that term is just used to describe an unlikely spy. He could be anybody's spy really. And there hasn't been a single mention of Varys at all in the last 4 (of only 6) episodes. Either way though, i can't wait to see what happens.
Here's the funny thing about that. I take it you protected Sera and treated her well, right? Well I treated her like utter shit and when I eavesdropped on her with Margaery, guess what? Yep.... it was reversed. The person I treated like shit (Sera) was protecting Mira while Margaery was (basically) urging her to get over it because that would make her the #1 handmaiden.
Originally I thought this coincided with Sera being afraid I would tell Margaery she is a bastard but it can't be that since the Tyrell's already know. So, basically, if you treat Sera like shit she will back you in secret where as (if my theory is correct about your playthrough) if you treat her decent to well she will betray you?
How's that for a hilarious twist by Telltale. Fucking snakes.. all of them.
The more I thought about it (since my last post) the more it would make much more sense that Ryon is actually the son between Ludd and Lady Forrester. Think about what Gwynn said during the secret meeting. I wish I had it infront of me but it was stuff like Ludd telling Ryon to forget about the Forresters, he's better there, etc.
Man Telltale will deal with an epic shitstorm of feminist baloney if that turns out true (in any case) but what a twist that would be. I just can't get over the serious focus Telltale gave us with both family portraits (as if to say: LOOK STUPID!) and the way Ludd reacted to Lady Forrester on two occasions now. Are we to believe that nobody can back that maniac down except Lady Forrester? C'mon now.... something is definitely up. It might just be he loved her but shit.... this one is driving me batshit nuts trying to figure it out.
I noticed the things you've discussed as well. I hope we get some sort of answers to all this in the next episode.
Nah I was nice to Sera. She still backed me
Margery is turning Sera against us, is what Fishy was trying to say.
There's actually no difference between Sera and Margaery's conversation either way. I think FishySticks meant Margaery is trying to turn Sera against Mira.
Ah okay. Man... fuck Margaery... she just get's worse and worse.
You're right about what Ludd was saying to Ryon, but maybe it's just that Ryon is the most 'changeable' of the Forresters. Because he is so young, and didn't have as much time with his father or a normal working household, maybe Ludd thinks to turn him into a Whitehill sympathizer? Or perhaps Ludd just knows that the best way to hurt the remaining Forresters is to hurt Ryon?
Looking forward to more backstory answers in the next couple of episodes. Just like with the Books, i find myself way more interested in the events prior to the main story. The causes for the effects we are seeing.
Margaery is only out for herself.
You're a convenience.
Which became very inconvenient.
I don't think Stannis's pardon is going to mean much in the long term...
It was very unrealistic and annoying for her to get angry when Tyrion approached Mira both of the times.
Flaw in the story but i enjoy most of the game.