even in the final battle both brothers do the exact same animations and the hits have no impact so even the sound design was lazy. it was all lazy thos episode.
Bloodguy is an epic warrior! proceed to make short work of him with little effort
This is the telltale's STUPIDEST desision. This episode was the concentration of telltale's laziness. Neither Duncan, nor Royland have real … moremotives to betray Rodrik. It was such a disappointment, which shows that Telltale don't give a damn about people who buy it's games. Not mentioning stupid final scene and the fact that Griff was miracly healed!
Actually, that's the opposite. With going that way, they once again refused any form of choice, because no matter who you choose, it means you were always right. A risk taking would have been that you chose the wrong Sentinel, that you messed up.
i dont want to be harsh but thats what we get for keeping asking that our choices actually matters (not everybody but still). First time (al… moremost) a choice matter (sentinel choice) and first time a TTG game has such a big plot hole. Lets wait patiently, dont add more presure to Telltale and hope they will continue to do the great job they've been doing all these years. Despite this, i think TTG - GOT its still great.
in Episode 4 we'll go back into the Dome to find that Ramsay flayed Vaughn
Impossible, Vaughn's abs are rock solid, he couldn't be flayed even if God Himself wanted him to be.
It was completely ridiculous. Royland getting mad about a kids decision, even when i (as Rodrick, not Ethan) sided with him on some things a… morefter. Then he makes a whole speech about how he wont see me ruin the Forrester household so he betrays us tooooo umm help the Forretsers? What a pile of poop. It felt like if the traitor was going to be determinant, a points system should have been used depending on the three or so decisions you make that will please either of them. At least then it's not dependent on a coin toss.
I thought Daenerys was completely out of character as well but i think the whole episode (season?) has just suffered from some very bad writing. It's a shame as it had the potential to be so good. I think they relied on the Asher or Rodrick shock factor (which had been predicted by many already) to save them but it doesn't cover up the flaws for the people who are actually paying attention. Though i'm still looking forward to see where the overall story goes.
I felt the ending just drove home how little my choices mattered. Why did Roderick just wander carelessly into an ambush he knew about? He's a warrior who trained with the military genius of the Young Wolf. He HAS to be more experienced than to do something so stupid. Meanwhile Asher notices from the boat that something is wrong, but he skips on into town anyway. He's a sellsword with no one to trust but Beska and his family. He should have better survival instincts or he would have been dead long ago.
I think a choice between Asher and Roderick COULD have been dramatic and moving. But that only happens if I'm not sitting at my computer, staring at their terrified faces as they hold the winch and thinking to myself "You're both so stupid! I can't believe you just did that! Can I just leave the both of you behind because no matter who I choose, it clearly doesn't matter because you're both going to be idiots when the game feels like it, no matter what choices I make.
There was so much great speculation about the traitor thing, I'm really disappointed with what happened here, with this classic "you don't l… moreisten to me, I betray you" but "I did it for the family" thing. At least they could have made it deeper for showing more about these man.
Anyway, the ending was touching and I had a great time for my first play.
--->
Yes, Duncan betraying House Forrester to the assholes who killed his father and niece isn't bad writingr. I mean, would you betray your house to the people who killed your family just prove a point?
I really didn't want it to be Ortegryn before, but let's consider him. Think about it, putting him into the traitor role instead affects the narrative much more dynamically. How is it that Talia brought this evidence to Rodrick once he was coincidentally fully healed? Someone had to be the one to bandage him, and that's the expertise of the house healer - Ortegryn. She tailed him to steal most recent evidence of his betrayal and show it to Rodrick.
Why would Ortegryn turn cloak? He didn't want to serve House Forrester when he graduated from the Citadel. The jeopardy of the house in wartime presented an enticing opportunity. His behavior is always suspect. I mean sure he's the butler, but by this point the butler is made your advisors, who serve as red herrings for the real culprit - in this case, the real butler - to maneuver without Rodrick or the player's suspicion. Hell in episode 5, I almost forgot he existed until I saw Rodrick throw his cane into the fire.
What this sets up is another choice between Duncan or Royland's advice for sentence. Kill him, and he may not be able to save someone's life later on, but he won't be working against you for the interim. In the event that you let him live he may cement his loyalty to House Forrester for good when it rises to a level of prestige he can be satisfied with. You weight that speculation against the possibility of him turning cloak again when it's convenient for him later. The dispute between Duncan and Royland and who you consistently side with can instead determine whether Duncan joins Gwyn in working against the war, or if Royland goes rogue and tries to destroy Highpoint with resources he's been amassing in secret.
This is all hypothetical, but I think I did a good job outlining a more enriching choice-style narrative than what we get with the cheapening reveal of Duncan or Royland as the traitor.
Has anyone considered that it doesn't make sense because we don't know everything? The look your sentinel gives you right before the gate comes down at the end of the episode was suspicious af.
Yup. That would have worked for me. And I could see Duncan and Gwyn teaming up where I can't see Duncan and Ludd. And I can see Royland going rogue if you've held back too much. Not siding with the Whitehills, but accidentally undermining you. And it would have been a surprise after catching the "real" traitor.
I really didn't want it to be Ortegryn before, but let's consider him. Think about it, putting him into the traitor role instead affects the… more narrative much more dynamically. How is it that Talia brought this evidence to Rodrick once he was coincidentally fully healed? Someone had to be the one to bandage him, and that's the expertise of the house healer - Ortegryn. She tailed him to steal most recent evidence of his betrayal and show it to Rodrick.
Why would Ortegryn turn cloak? He didn't want to serve House Forrester when he graduated from the Citadel. The jeopardy of the house in wartime presented an enticing opportunity. His behavior is always suspect. I mean sure he's the butler, but by this point the butler is made your advisors, who serve as red herrings for the real culprit - in this case, the real butler - to maneuver without Rodrick or the player's suspicion. Hell in episode 5, I almost forgot he existed until I saw Rodrick throw … [view original content]
Thread: The traitors reasoning made absalustly no sense whatsoever....
So whoever is your traitor says they did it since Rodrik and Ethan were such bad lords. Ok fine. But how dose letting Ludd (a guy who openly admits his goals and aims are to see every last Forrester dead) know all of the Forresters plans help anyone?? I mean what was the traitors end goal? That if he helps Ludd kill everyone this will somehow save the Forresters??
I couldn't make sense of the traitor's reasoning either. Fine, I'm a cripple (I am). And I wasted time with Elaena exploring my girly man feelings (it got me laid). But I was doing everything I could to undermine Whitehill authority at Ironrath, accepted an alliance with the Glenmore's that brought the Forester's much needed troops and I beat Gryff within an inch of his life. I even managed to negotiate a trade with the Whitehill's to get my brother back. Not bad for such a shitty lord.
What did Ser Royland accomplish? He informed on me for... what? If the Whitehill's had wanted to wipe us out they certainly could have. They were in my house. They could have put me and my family (including Royland) to the sword at any time.
Royland's treason accomplished fuck all for everybody but the fuckin' Whitehills! The traitor's motivations were shit and the whole revelation turned out to be completely ridiculous! The whole thing was so poorly handled that I wonder if Telltale was working from a first draft script or something.
Theoutcome of the traitor really should've been based on the multiple decisions made rather than one decision. If he made very aggressive decisions against the Whitehills, it should've been Duncan and if they were negotiation decisions, it should have been Royland. And if the decisions somehow balanced out, it should be either the maester or lady Forrester.
This episodic gaming ideal of theirs should be stopped for their next project so they work on the game as a whole.
Agreed. At the time of TWD1 (first episodic game I ever played) I found it original and liked the idea that game makers would take in account the feedback of players between episodes, but it has shown its huge limits.
The delays are frustrating for the players, stressing for Telltalte's team I guess, and from TWAU there are reasons to think players being able to share theories between episodes might not be that good after all (smart players found out too much and suddenly the next episode was so obviously different from anything in the preview that it was obvious Telltale had to drastically change the plot in a rush).
Maybe Telltale should stop including stupid decisions that don't matter, and start thinking long-term.
This episodic gaming ideal of thei… morers should be stopped for their next project so they work on the game as a whole. So Episode 1 leads to Episode 5/6 in a cohesive manner that makes sense all around.
Not stuff like Finn, and the Sentinel, not stuff like Nick from TWD Season 2, not some of the more pointless decisions with Bigby Wolf.
Heck. Part of me loves the idea of a 6-part series like this in a different way. Build the story up in 4 episodes like Telltale normally does with it's 5 part series. Then have the final two episodes be divergent (Aka you play a different Episode because of your choice.) based on a choice! Either as a full game, or simultaneous release! An entirely different ending! A way to recognize player choice in such an astounding manner. Add replay value. Get the recognition as a story-telling company.
and from TWAU there are reasons to think players being able to share theories between episodes might not be that good after all (smart players found out too much and suddenly the next episode was so obviously different from anything in the preview that it was obvious Telltale had to drastically change the plot in a rush).
I don't understand where this theory came from. That's not why they had to rewrite the story. The story they had planned out messed with the canon in the comics too much.
This episodic gaming ideal of theirs should be stopped for their next project so they work on the game as a whole.
Agreed. At the ti… moreme of TWD1 (first episodic game I ever played) I found it original and liked the idea that game makers would take in account the feedback of players between episodes, but it has shown its huge limits.
The delays are frustrating for the players, stressing for Telltalte's team I guess, and from TWAU there are reasons to think players being able to share theories between episodes might not be that good after all (smart players found out too much and suddenly the next episode was so obviously different from anything in the preview that it was obvious Telltale had to drastically change the plot in a rush).
Right? If was the Maester, and Ortengryn was actually the son of Ludd Whitehill, and he is struggling with his maester oath (serve a noble house) and helping his family it would be a amazing plot twist. And makes more sense, to me at least.
See that would have certainly been an interesting twist but I feel like it would be known already by the family since Gregor no doubt already would have known who the Maester was and while Gryff was bullied by his brothers that wasn't the reason he beat the Maester and he would have mentioned if it was his brother anyway.I do believe they mentioned he was training at the Citadel anyway so he is not even a proper Maester yet,just one in training.
Right? If was the Maester, and Ortengryn was actually the son of Ludd Whitehill, and he is struggling with his maester oath (serve a noble house) and helping his family it would be a amazing plot twist. And makes more sense, to me at least.
It kind of reminds me of a book series I read where the deputy to the leader seemed like he'd never be a villain but it turns out it was all a façade. I saw this one coming as soon as the Traitor was announced.
Duncan's reasoning made sense to me, since I played Rodrik aggressively. It really did seem like he supplied info to keep the Whitehills from totally slaughtering us, which they could have easily done several times.
I think that the intention from Telltales part is that they assumed you''d follow the advice of your sentinel the whole time. If you choose Royland and listen to everything he says then yeah Duncan being the traitor does make sense. We were reckless (roylands suggestions are often reckless) and we were not doing anything in a diplomatic fashion which Duncan was preaching.
If you choose Duncan and choose to be a diplomat and Royland betrays you it does make sense, he says your weak and he's not willing to follow you. As he says "I'd swear to Asher if he were here" because Asher does not hesitate, he acts. (Which is why in my saving Asher playthrough I let Royland live to see if Telltale will remember this dialogue and because I'm Asher I might not cut his traitor heart out, but use him in the war against the whitehills and redeem himself)
What I'm finding is that it was way to simple. People (I think and I include myself) were expecting something a little more complex. I wish it had more to it then just the sentinel choice/either of them being ignored by Rodrik. I don't see us following the Fall of House Forrester though and I expect the determinant playable character to live in episode 6. It would certainly shake things up with the determinant character death curse.
My problem is Duncan was the traitor (Cause I picked Royland cause I thought I could manage his not getting chosen anger I guess at the time) BUT, I picked all the PEACEFUL approaches and he still says nonsense about the way I did things as violence(Which I did not do anything he claims I am pretty sure) I may sound negative I guess but Im just confused if this is intended based solely on you choose from Ethan's part and not how you played Rodrick aggressively or not as much? Also where did the maester go? I don't recall seeing him that whole episode.
I really didn't want it to be Ortegryn before, but let's consider him. Think about it, putting him into the traitor role instead affects the… more narrative much more dynamically. How is it that Talia brought this evidence to Rodrick once he was coincidentally fully healed? Someone had to be the one to bandage him, and that's the expertise of the house healer - Ortegryn. She tailed him to steal most recent evidence of his betrayal and show it to Rodrick.
Why would Ortegryn turn cloak? He didn't want to serve House Forrester when he graduated from the Citadel. The jeopardy of the house in wartime presented an enticing opportunity. His behavior is always suspect. I mean sure he's the butler, but by this point the butler is made your advisors, who serve as red herrings for the real culprit - in this case, the real butler - to maneuver without Rodrick or the player's suspicion. Hell in episode 5, I almost forgot he existed until I saw Rodrick throw … [view original content]
Comments
even in the final battle both brothers do the exact same animations and the hits have no impact so even the sound design was lazy. it was all lazy thos episode.
Bloodguy is an epic warrior! proceed to make short work of him with little effort
Actually, that's the opposite. With going that way, they once again refused any form of choice, because no matter who you choose, it means you were always right. A risk taking would have been that you chose the wrong Sentinel, that you messed up.
Then he will just cut his dick and eat a sausage.
Daenerys wasn't out of character. She was always annoying drama queen.
I felt the ending just drove home how little my choices mattered. Why did Roderick just wander carelessly into an ambush he knew about? He's a warrior who trained with the military genius of the Young Wolf. He HAS to be more experienced than to do something so stupid. Meanwhile Asher notices from the boat that something is wrong, but he skips on into town anyway. He's a sellsword with no one to trust but Beska and his family. He should have better survival instincts or he would have been dead long ago.
I think a choice between Asher and Roderick COULD have been dramatic and moving. But that only happens if I'm not sitting at my computer, staring at their terrified faces as they hold the winch and thinking to myself "You're both so stupid! I can't believe you just did that! Can I just leave the both of you behind because no matter who I choose, it clearly doesn't matter because you're both going to be idiots when the game feels like it, no matter what choices I make.
Nope, I don't think it was bad writing, the way they did it.
I really didn't want it to be Ortegryn before, but let's consider him. Think about it, putting him into the traitor role instead affects the narrative much more dynamically. How is it that Talia brought this evidence to Rodrick once he was coincidentally fully healed? Someone had to be the one to bandage him, and that's the expertise of the house healer - Ortegryn. She tailed him to steal most recent evidence of his betrayal and show it to Rodrick.
Why would Ortegryn turn cloak? He didn't want to serve House Forrester when he graduated from the Citadel. The jeopardy of the house in wartime presented an enticing opportunity. His behavior is always suspect. I mean sure he's the butler, but by this point the butler is made your advisors, who serve as red herrings for the real culprit - in this case, the real butler - to maneuver without Rodrick or the player's suspicion. Hell in episode 5, I almost forgot he existed until I saw Rodrick throw his cane into the fire.
What this sets up is another choice between Duncan or Royland's advice for sentence. Kill him, and he may not be able to save someone's life later on, but he won't be working against you for the interim. In the event that you let him live he may cement his loyalty to House Forrester for good when it rises to a level of prestige he can be satisfied with. You weight that speculation against the possibility of him turning cloak again when it's convenient for him later. The dispute between Duncan and Royland and who you consistently side with can instead determine whether Duncan joins Gwyn in working against the war, or if Royland goes rogue and tries to destroy Highpoint with resources he's been amassing in secret.
This is all hypothetical, but I think I did a good job outlining a more enriching choice-style narrative than what we get with the cheapening reveal of Duncan or Royland as the traitor.
Has anyone considered that it doesn't make sense because we don't know everything? The look your sentinel gives you right before the gate comes down at the end of the episode was suspicious af.
Yup. That would have worked for me. And I could see Duncan and Gwyn teaming up where I can't see Duncan and Ludd. And I can see Royland going rogue if you've held back too much. Not siding with the Whitehills, but accidentally undermining you. And it would have been a surprise after catching the "real" traitor.
So what Duncan did made perfect sense?
I thought it made sense, considering how selfish and ungrateful people are in Westeros.
Thread: The traitors reasoning made absalustly no sense whatsoever....
So whoever is your traitor says they did it since Rodrik and Ethan were such bad lords. Ok fine. But how dose letting Ludd (a guy who openly admits his goals and aims are to see every last Forrester dead) know all of the Forresters plans help anyone?? I mean what was the traitors end goal? That if he helps Ludd kill everyone this will somehow save the Forresters??
https://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/97891/telltale-s-worst-decision-episode-5
I couldn't make sense of the traitor's reasoning either. Fine, I'm a cripple (I am). And I wasted time with Elaena exploring my girly man feelings (it got me laid). But I was doing everything I could to undermine Whitehill authority at Ironrath, accepted an alliance with the Glenmore's that brought the Forester's much needed troops and I beat Gryff within an inch of his life. I even managed to negotiate a trade with the Whitehill's to get my brother back. Not bad for such a shitty lord.
What did Ser Royland accomplish? He informed on me for... what? If the Whitehill's had wanted to wipe us out they certainly could have. They were in my house. They could have put me and my family (including Royland) to the sword at any time.
Royland's treason accomplished fuck all for everybody but the fuckin' Whitehills! The traitor's motivations were shit and the whole revelation turned out to be completely ridiculous! The whole thing was so poorly handled that I wonder if Telltale was working from a first draft script or something.
It was completely ludicrous.
One horrible nonsensical OOC action deserved another from my Rodrick. I would like to think Rodrick was just like "did I just do that, Why?".
Theoutcome of the traitor really should've been based on the multiple decisions made rather than one decision. If he made very aggressive decisions against the Whitehills, it should've been Duncan and if they were negotiation decisions, it should have been Royland. And if the decisions somehow balanced out, it should be either the maester or lady Forrester.
Yeah I completely agree Lord Carperius, It just makes no sense to me.
It's completely random.
Whatever. Your logic.
Okay, your attitude is unnecessary. It's my opinion, there's no need to be so confrontational about it.
All I said was "whatever". I doubt that's being confrontational.
Yeah, Gryff fucking grow an eye back.
Agreed. At the time of TWD1 (first episodic game I ever played) I found it original and liked the idea that game makers would take in account the feedback of players between episodes, but it has shown its huge limits.
The delays are frustrating for the players, stressing for Telltalte's team I guess, and from TWAU there are reasons to think players being able to share theories between episodes might not be that good after all (smart players found out too much and suddenly the next episode was so obviously different from anything in the preview that it was obvious Telltale had to drastically change the plot in a rush).
I don't understand where this theory came from. That's not why they had to rewrite the story. The story they had planned out messed with the canon in the comics too much.
I think Telltale do it to ''complace'' all the guys who says all the time ''Decisions dont matter!!11'' but its still a bad decisions by Telltale.
Right? If was the Maester, and Ortengryn was actually the son of Ludd Whitehill, and he is struggling with his maester oath (serve a noble house) and helping his family it would be a amazing plot twist. And makes more sense, to me at least.
See that would have certainly been an interesting twist but I feel like it would be known already by the family since Gregor no doubt already would have known who the Maester was and while Gryff was bullied by his brothers that wasn't the reason he beat the Maester and he would have mentioned if it was his brother anyway.I do believe they mentioned he was training at the Citadel anyway so he is not even a proper Maester yet,just one in training.
Another game that NEEDS an edit to the ending... (not technically the ending but still)
Me too.
In the context of the situation they were in, yes it made sense.
Same shit again. Then again this is the Telltale forum.
Why don't the mods shut those repetitive threads down ?
Absa-
Absalu-
Absalustly?
Duncan's reasoning made sense to me, since I played Rodrik aggressively. It really did seem like he supplied info to keep the Whitehills from totally slaughtering us, which they could have easily done several times.
Im confused-ish also But I get part of the logic
Would you betray your house to the people who killed your family if we lived Westeros?
I think that the intention from Telltales part is that they assumed you''d follow the advice of your sentinel the whole time. If you choose Royland and listen to everything he says then yeah Duncan being the traitor does make sense. We were reckless (roylands suggestions are often reckless) and we were not doing anything in a diplomatic fashion which Duncan was preaching.
If you choose Duncan and choose to be a diplomat and Royland betrays you it does make sense, he says your weak and he's not willing to follow you. As he says "I'd swear to Asher if he were here" because Asher does not hesitate, he acts. (Which is why in my saving Asher playthrough I let Royland live to see if Telltale will remember this dialogue and because I'm Asher I might not cut his traitor heart out, but use him in the war against the whitehills and redeem himself)
What I'm finding is that it was way to simple. People (I think and I include myself) were expecting something a little more complex. I wish it had more to it then just the sentinel choice/either of them being ignored by Rodrik. I don't see us following the Fall of House Forrester though and I expect the determinant playable character to live in episode 6. It would certainly shake things up with the determinant character death curse.
My problem is Duncan was the traitor (Cause I picked Royland cause I thought I could manage his not getting chosen anger I guess at the time) BUT, I picked all the PEACEFUL approaches and he still says nonsense about the way I did things as violence(Which I did not do anything he claims I am pretty sure) I may sound negative I guess but Im just confused if this is intended based solely on you choose from Ethan's part and not how you played Rodrick aggressively or not as much? Also where did the maester go? I don't recall seeing him that whole episode.
Although the 'dont pass sentence' causing them to save a life later is dumb, dont make theories anymore if you could call them that
Yeah, better than this lazy traitor plot Telltale come up with.