I wouldn't say that Telltale has "lost their magic," but I would be inclined to say that - despite them making incredible games that I love - I do think that they miss out on some of the contextual elements that made Walking Dead: Season 1 the breakout hit that it became. (Allow me to clarify this with a disclaimer that I am only a volunteer Moderator who comes here in my free time. Although we are in some ways seen as ambassadors of Telltale, we are ultimately just fans recruited to help keep an eye on things on the forums and our opinions don't represent Telltale. Part of what I consider the benefits of being a quote-on quote "ambassador" is that we can give a unique level of input from being knowledgeable fans with our own passionate perspective).
I've been a fan of Telltale for several years prior to when they broke out into popularity with Walking Dead: Season 1 back in 2012. Needless to say, seeing Telltale go from things like Sam and Max, Wallace and Gromit, Monkey Island, Back to the Future, etc to franchises with colossal popularity like Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Marvel, Minecraft, etc has been unreal. As a long time fan of Telltale even prior to Walking Dead, I can attest that the writing quality has been there for a long time, and that it just took a large title like Walking Dead for people to appreciate Telltale’s writing.
However, although I do love both their current and older games, I can understand what some of Telltale’s modern fans have pointed out about the transition of how Telltale has updated their format from Walking Dead: Season 1 onto all their newer titles. I think, ultimately, it lies in that Telltale and their fans both have contradicting ideas of what they got out of the success of Walking Dead: Season 1.
After Season 1 came out, Telltale had finally reached their long time goal of making a game where the story was the gameplay and the gameplay was no longer a hindrance to the story.
But, in the process of updating their template to make choice the new default gameplay for Wolf/Walking Dead Season 2 onwards, they tried to streamline the gameplay even more than they had from Walking Dead: Season 1 so that they could focus even more on the interactive cinematic story gameplay - the entirety of the main point of their games, without the excess gameplay that people have to bypass to get to the direct involvement with influencing the story.
I think Telltale could reach a higher level of potential if, instead of using the exact same template for each game, they repeat their thought process with Walking Dead: Season 1 - meaning, they personalize the template and toolkit of interactive elements (puzzles/hub areas/dialogue/etc) they already have to fit the needs of the story first, instead of their current method of personalizing the story to the needs of the current template. Different franchises (or Seasons) could get away with different amounts and methods of using choices, puzzles, hub areas, etc and under the right circumstances could lead to another Walking Dead: Season 1 level of success if they add something new and revolutionary to interactive story telling, like how choice was revolutionary for Walking Dead.
Just as some quick background for the newer fans - prior to Walking Dead, Telltale used a similar template for most of their older titles. Games like Sam and Max, Monkey Island, Wallace and Gromit, Strong Bad, Back to the Future, and a few others were games with point and click puzzles. Like Telltale’s modern games, story was the focus, but the story cutscenes and the gameplay were separated since you didn’t personalize your dialogue in older titles. Because the two were separated, Telltale entrusted players with having more control over the story. You had more freedom to walk around and use items, but sometimes this came at the cost of pacing the story. Meaning, sometimes, you would have to backtrack and go to an earlier location or that, if you got stuck on a puzzle, the pacing of the story would be ruined.
Meanwhile, with Telltale having ambitions of wanting interactive cinematic games even back then, there was another notable caveat - that being, even with their older titles also being story centric, Telltale didn’t like that the more interactive portions of the story like puzzle solving ruined the pacing or the cinematic elements of the story. Unlike modern Telltale titles, cutscenes were static. Instead of using dialogue for shaping your character, dialogue was used to get information or solve certain types of puzzles. You weren’t timed on selecting dialogue, and the different options were all variations of one type of characterization. You didn’t choose your characterization or how you responded - you just used dialogue for finding information to solve a puzzle to advance the story - so that you could get a cutscene that where you watched a cutscene with the story - a venue where Telltale had full control over cinematic presentation, telling a story directly, and having players build empathy through the on going story in the cutscene.
Most of Telltale’s earlier games were light hearted, so the dialogue and use of items you found lent itself to goofy, light hearted jokes.
What made Telltale so revolutionary for people in 2012 with Walking Dead: Season 1 was that Telltale refined and streamlined their template in an intelligent way so that they could reframe interactive elements to be the story directly instead of an interruption to the story. The story had become the gameplay itself so that you could personalize your story and have your choices act as an inner reflection of your self. Instead of dialogue scenes acting as a barrier to the story where players had to get information to trigger an event that continued the story, players had a large amount of participation in the story - the story in the cutscenes was the gameplay, and you had to adapt and think on your feet, and you had a much stronger investment as you could dynamically characterize your protagonist in the process. (In Season 1, they also extended this to puzzles and more detailed hub areas...)
In the process, they looked at the subtle world building elements from Season 1 like light puzzles, hub areas with lots of interaction, etc under the stigma of how those features were used in the old games. Lots of people have expressed that they felt that hub areas, puzzles, etc added to the immersion in the story in Walking Dead because even those interactive elements of the game were directly a part of the story and not just a barrier for the player to over come to progress to the story.
Since Telltale wanted to go all in on interactive story telling - in their eyes, hub areas and puzzles from Season 1 were lengthy as they wanted to focus more on a strictly interactive cinematic presentation where the player could forge their own version of a story through making choices. But, they don’t seem to see that for many people, the more direct and hands on elements of the game added to the personalized element of their story in Walking Dead: Season 1 - because, for Season 1, they had designed those extra parts of the game to where even puzzles, hub areas, etc were still directly advancing the story unlike Telltale’s older titles where those extra interactive elements were used differently in the context of those games. For Season 1, they had considered characterization of Clementine, Kenny, and Katjaa on a level where they had additions to the story you could get through talking to them outside of the main cutscenes.
That’s why several people have critically praised Life is Strange in comparison to current Telltale games. For some of its faults, Life is Strange harkens back to the design process Season 1 of Walking Dead used, where puzzles, detailed and very vibrant/lively hub areas, and other interactive elements of the game are included to fit the story. The interactive portions are still accessible to casual players and gamers alike, and still (for the most part) have the interactive elements acting as direct player involvement with the story and not as a hindrance to the story. The difference is that, for Life is Strange, they use the more extensive elements to add further immersion, characterization, and life to the universe - all under the same mindset that the gameplay is the interaction with the story and not something that hinders the story, whereas Telltale wants a more strictly cinematic presentation in their newer games where they have control of how the cinematic presentation of the story is portrayed.
I am a strong fan of their newer games, understand the reasoning behind their new focus, and still strongly support them as a longtime fan, but I agree in that adding more interactivity under the right circumstances - where the interactivity still is the story and still is not a hindrance to the story - could allow for some extremely creative venues for Telltale to give people more ways to interact with the amazing stories they tell and the amazing universes they craft outside of using a heavily streamlined version of the Season 1 format for their newer titles. Choice is definitely a core part of Telltale’s new identity - which I strongly support as a fan - and I’m not advocating that they abandon their current design philosophy. Rather, I’m saying they have further potential they could reach if they were willing to try some more experimentation and design gameplay (using both choice making and new interactive elements) that fit the story, as opposed to crafting stories that fit the gameplay.
False I will agree that with most that TWD S2 and GOT has been disappointing, but Wolf Among Us and Tales From The Borderlands are the two best games Telltale has done. Even better than Walking dead season 1
TL:DR; Reptition and streamlining of their new choice template isn't a problem like people think it is. However, for their newer titles, they design their stories to fit the template. What made Walking Dead: Season 1 a success in comparrison to their older games was that they did the opposite to where they took elements from their older template to fit the story, revised it in a context that fit the Walking Dead universe, and added new interactive elements (in this case, choice making).
They can strike gold again if they go back to the philosophy of Season 1 where they design story first and use choice making and other interactive elements from their template in a way that fits the story first instead of making games that revolve strictly around one template. Different franchises can get away with different amounts of interactive elements while still allowing for the story to directly be the gameplay without holding the story back by interrupting it.
Quite honestly, I was trying to bore my self to sleep so I tried to write something really long to help (plan failed) so I might have made mistakes somewhere or something.
I wouldn't say that Telltale has "lost their magic," but I would be inclined to say that - despite them making incredible games that I love … more- I do think that they miss out on some of the contextual elements that made Walking Dead: Season 1 the breakout hit that it became. (Allow me to clarify this with a disclaimer that I am only a volunteer Moderator who comes here in my free time. Although we are in some ways seen as ambassadors of Telltale, we are ultimately just fans recruited to help keep an eye on things on the forums and our opinions don't represent Telltale. Part of what I consider the benefits of being a quote-on quote "ambassador" is that we can give a unique level of input from being knowledgeable fans with our own passionate perspective).
I've been a fan of Telltale for several years prior to when they broke out into popularity with Walking Dead: Season 1 back in 2012. Needless to say, seeing Telltale go from things like Sam an… [view original content]
TL:DR; Reptition and streamlining of their new choice template isn't a problem like people think it is. However, for their newer titles, the… morey design their stories to fit the template. What made Walking Dead: Season 1 a success in comparrison to their older games was that they did the opposite to where they took elements from their older template to fit the story, revised it in a context that fit the Walking Dead universe, and added new interactive elements (in this case, choice making).
They can strike gold again if they go back to the philosophy of Season 1 where they design story first and use choice making and other interactive elements from their template in a way that fits the story first instead of making games that revolve strictly around one template. Different franchises can get away with different amounts of interactive elements while still allowing for the story to directly be the gameplay without holding the story back by inter… [view original content]
I'm not exactly running at top performance today, so to speak, but if I'm reading this right, a fair majority of your criticisms are aimed a… moret player agency, or more specifically, what you believe is the lack thereof, right?
I can agree with you to a point that the agency given to the player isn't as expansive as it was for TWD S1, but I don't think it's quite reached the level where the player's involvement becomes more or less as passive as you say it has. I guess an easy way to sum up how I look at it is that it's like going from being the wrestler, to being a coach, or a referee; you still play a role in the 'game' at hand, but that role is much less involved and less physical/personal than the other, but at the same time, hasn't reached the level of passiveness that is the crowd. The player is still an important component to the game, but from a more 'behind-the-scenes' kind of way where their influence isn't felt as heavily through th… [view original content]
as others have said, you can't explain why something is funny, and even just explaining why something is entertaining is hard enough, but i would not say TFTB is like arrested development at all, if anything it would say it was more like archer.
also i wouldn't say it had anything to do with your (and my) british sensibilities, it is just that humor is so subjective that you can even decide something isn't funny before you see it and it just won't be funny
Can I just throw something out there, what makes Tales from the borderlands so special. I love comedy, but just feel the entire thing so far… more has been pretty meh. Is it something other than the comedy that I'm not seeing or is it just my more Irish (exaggerated anecdotes) and British (dry wit) sensibilities dampening an American comedy (for reference I find shows like modern family and arrested development really tedious)
Awesome post. My problem with telltale's newer work is not so much that they've stopped incorporating hub areas or some of the other more video-game-y aspects, actually I found them to be a nuisance to the overall experience in S1, but that they've been so quick to incorporate narrative techniques from other mediums. You wouldn't write a book like a movie, and you wouldn't write a game like a tv show. My frustration comes from them taking interesting ideas, especially in an interactive setting and giving little to no thought as to their actual application in this form.
TL:DR; Reptition and streamlining of their new choice template isn't a problem like people think it is. However, for their newer titles, the… morey design their stories to fit the template. What made Walking Dead: Season 1 a success in comparrison to their older games was that they did the opposite to where they took elements from their older template to fit the story, revised it in a context that fit the Walking Dead universe, and added new interactive elements (in this case, choice making).
They can strike gold again if they go back to the philosophy of Season 1 where they design story first and use choice making and other interactive elements from their template in a way that fits the story first instead of making games that revolve strictly around one template. Different franchises can get away with different amounts of interactive elements while still allowing for the story to directly be the gameplay without holding the story back by inter… [view original content]
My issue with their recent work is not that they don't present 'Right' choices, because frankly that would be boring, but that the context that informs these choices is lacking. The Whitehalls are one dimensional, just anger with no meat on the bones. They fall flat because they just arrive, remind you how evil they are, in a saturday morning cartoon villian kinda way, and leave. There's nothing interesting there, and thus when the game calls upon you to make a decision in relation to what they've done, I just don't care. It stops me engaging, which in turn also makes the lack of agency stand out more. When telltale get it right, it doesn't matter that I'm picking from 1 of 4 pre written options, I'm engaged, I'm there, I think about what I'm saying as important and meaningful because I'm saying it to important and meaningful people.
TWD S1 handled choice pretty similarly as well, I think? In terms of there being few 'right' choices. Been a long time since I played through it, though I'd like to go through it again sometime soon.
Visuals, sound, pacing, writing, and overall keeping me interested, I felt there was some emptiness in a few scenes in TWD. The few aspects though that I think can be worked on a little bit more are Hubs, and length of the episodes, but that's really it.
Visuals, sound, pacing, writing, and overall keeping me interested, I felt there was some emptiness in a few scenes in TWD. The few aspects … morethough that I think can be worked on a little bit more are Hubs, and length of the episodes, but that's really it.
These games are very entertaining and to me that's a job well done. Their "magic" continues to be awesome as hell with so many amazing moments and scenarios TT puts us in. Then again this is all opinion crap.
Well this is my opinion, and if I offend anyone well then that's not my fault... no one should even be offended considering it's a game...
The only games i sincerely liked from telltalegames was twd s1 and the wolf among us. OP, in all honesty, I agree with you 100 percent. No matter how much you guys declare that "alot" of people prefer twd s2 over s1, twd s1 is still a lot more preferable over s2.
Tales from Borderlands is boring, and Game of Thrones is meh. I honestly think Tales from borderlands is "hyped", but that's imo.
And it is no lie that after season 1 twd, ttg lost a lot of it's quality in the games they made b/c they were working on a whole bunch of other games at the same time. When they made s2, I imagine they were working on The Wolf Among Us, Tales from borderlands etc. and that's why it came out the way it is, a 5/10 at best.
Woah there man. Just because I'm not a huge fan of negative threads suddenly means I'm ignorant? I read what the guy has to say and if that's what he thinks, so fucking what. I still don't like his negativity and i'm just expressing my opinion on this thread. People just love jumping to conclusions
One of the reasons S2 wasnt as good as S1 was Sean Vanaman quit telltale. He was one of the driving minds behind the game, and made the decision to bring back Kenny.
One of the reasons S2 wasnt as good as S1 was Sean Vanaman quit telltale. He was one of the driving minds behind the game, and made the decision to bring back Kenny.
You're probably one of the more respectable members on the forum (at least imo) I wanted to ask you if you think if Telltale put out a one game a year quota they would have the same success they did with Season 1?
Well this is my opinion, and if I offend anyone well then that's not my fault... no one should even be offended considering it's a game...
… more The only games i sincerely liked from telltalegames was twd s1 and the wolf among us. OP, in all honesty, I agree with you 100 percent. No matter how much you guys declare that "alot" of people prefer twd s2 over s1, twd s1 is still a lot more preferable over s2.
Tales from Borderlands is boring, and Game of Thrones is meh. I honestly think Tales from borderlands is "hyped", but that's imo.
And it is no lie that after season 1 twd, ttg lost a lot of it's quality in the games they made b/c they were working on a whole bunch of other games at the same time. When they made s2, I imagine they were working on The Wolf Among Us, Tales from borderlands etc. and that's why it came out the way it is, a 5/10 at best.
Yes. go to youtube and type in Playing Dead with greg miller and Gavin Hamon. Lots of good insight, and the story on bringing Kenny back. Also look at the other Playing deads, good stuff. Voice actors of Omid, Molly, Lee and interviews with the directors and producers of TTTWD.
Woah there man. Just because I'm not a huge fan of negative threads suddenly means I'm ignorant? I read what the guy has to say and if that'… mores what he thinks, so fucking what. I still don't like his negativity and i'm just expressing my opinion on this thread. People just love jumping to conclusions
I wanted to ask you if you think if Telltale put out a one game a year quota they would have the same success they did with Season 1?
Telltale very well could have a success like s1, if that's what you are asking. But as long as they are working on 4 games at the same time, that won't be likely.
Plus, season 1 is one of those telltale games that is going to be hard to top, it was a complete masterpiece imo.
You're probably one of the more respectable members on the forum (at least imo) I wanted to ask you if you think if Telltale put out a one game a year quota they would have the same success they did with Season 1?
Glad to know I'm not worth your time, and I'm not just saying that as sarcasm. I'm glad you don't have to deal with my utter bullshit and you can just ignore me and have a great day
Glad to know I'm not worth your time, and I'm not just saying that as sarcasm. I'm glad you don't have to deal with my utter bullshit and you can just ignore me and have a great day
In my opinion, they have been getting better and better with each game they released since season 1 of the Walking Dead. Also, I am personally fine with less puzzles in their games.
I still find that another negative thread is getting pretty annoying. Look if you don't like Telltale that's fine, but what's not cool is projecting your negative views on a Telltale forums of all places.
It's really down to opinion based. Some people like the new games better then season one of the walking dead, some don't. But as I've said Many times, telltale put all their effort solely on season one of the walking dead. They weren't focused on multiple games at once unlike now. The more effort and time put into something, the better it looks. I haven't played game of thrones or borderlands because I'm not a fan of those series', but I liked the wolf among us, and season two of the walking dead was good, not great but good. I think they need to focus on ONE game at a time. That way they can put a lot more effort into it.
It's really down to opinion based. Some people like the new games better then season one of the walking dead, some don't. But as I've said M… moreany times, telltale put all their effort solely on season one of the walking dead. They weren't focused on multiple games at once unlike now. The more effort and time put into something, the better it looks. I haven't played game of thrones or borderlands because I'm not a fan of those series', but I liked the wolf among us, and season two of the walking dead was good, not great but good. I think they need to focus on ONE game at a time. That way they can put a lot more effort into it.
Opinion taken. I just wish they'd put the effort in like they did with season one. Give me the feeling of anticipation for the next episode. When season two came out, I had no excitement. But hey, that's just my opinion.
Comments
i think this article shares your opinion
here i made a thread about it
https://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/98711/will-kenny-remember-that-unpacking-the-telltale-formula
I'm sorry to be THAT guy folks but I think there best was The Wolf Among Us M8!
The Wolf Among Us was very good!
I wouldn't say that Telltale has "lost their magic," but I would be inclined to say that - despite them making incredible games that I love - I do think that they miss out on some of the contextual elements that made Walking Dead: Season 1 the breakout hit that it became. (Allow me to clarify this with a disclaimer that I am only a volunteer Moderator who comes here in my free time. Although we are in some ways seen as ambassadors of Telltale, we are ultimately just fans recruited to help keep an eye on things on the forums and our opinions don't represent Telltale. Part of what I consider the benefits of being a quote-on quote "ambassador" is that we can give a unique level of input from being knowledgeable fans with our own passionate perspective).
I've been a fan of Telltale for several years prior to when they broke out into popularity with Walking Dead: Season 1 back in 2012. Needless to say, seeing Telltale go from things like Sam and Max, Wallace and Gromit, Monkey Island, Back to the Future, etc to franchises with colossal popularity like Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Marvel, Minecraft, etc has been unreal. As a long time fan of Telltale even prior to Walking Dead, I can attest that the writing quality has been there for a long time, and that it just took a large title like Walking Dead for people to appreciate Telltale’s writing.
However, although I do love both their current and older games, I can understand what some of Telltale’s modern fans have pointed out about the transition of how Telltale has updated their format from Walking Dead: Season 1 onto all their newer titles. I think, ultimately, it lies in that Telltale and their fans both have contradicting ideas of what they got out of the success of Walking Dead: Season 1.
After Season 1 came out, Telltale had finally reached their long time goal of making a game where the story was the gameplay and the gameplay was no longer a hindrance to the story.
But, in the process of updating their template to make choice the new default gameplay for Wolf/Walking Dead Season 2 onwards, they tried to streamline the gameplay even more than they had from Walking Dead: Season 1 so that they could focus even more on the interactive cinematic story gameplay - the entirety of the main point of their games, without the excess gameplay that people have to bypass to get to the direct involvement with influencing the story.
I think Telltale could reach a higher level of potential if, instead of using the exact same template for each game, they repeat their thought process with Walking Dead: Season 1 - meaning, they personalize the template and toolkit of interactive elements (puzzles/hub areas/dialogue/etc) they already have to fit the needs of the story first, instead of their current method of personalizing the story to the needs of the current template. Different franchises (or Seasons) could get away with different amounts and methods of using choices, puzzles, hub areas, etc and under the right circumstances could lead to another Walking Dead: Season 1 level of success if they add something new and revolutionary to interactive story telling, like how choice was revolutionary for Walking Dead.
Just as some quick background for the newer fans - prior to Walking Dead, Telltale used a similar template for most of their older titles. Games like Sam and Max, Monkey Island, Wallace and Gromit, Strong Bad, Back to the Future, and a few others were games with point and click puzzles. Like Telltale’s modern games, story was the focus, but the story cutscenes and the gameplay were separated since you didn’t personalize your dialogue in older titles. Because the two were separated, Telltale entrusted players with having more control over the story. You had more freedom to walk around and use items, but sometimes this came at the cost of pacing the story. Meaning, sometimes, you would have to backtrack and go to an earlier location or that, if you got stuck on a puzzle, the pacing of the story would be ruined.
Meanwhile, with Telltale having ambitions of wanting interactive cinematic games even back then, there was another notable caveat - that being, even with their older titles also being story centric, Telltale didn’t like that the more interactive portions of the story like puzzle solving ruined the pacing or the cinematic elements of the story. Unlike modern Telltale titles, cutscenes were static. Instead of using dialogue for shaping your character, dialogue was used to get information or solve certain types of puzzles. You weren’t timed on selecting dialogue, and the different options were all variations of one type of characterization. You didn’t choose your characterization or how you responded - you just used dialogue for finding information to solve a puzzle to advance the story - so that you could get a cutscene that where you watched a cutscene with the story - a venue where Telltale had full control over cinematic presentation, telling a story directly, and having players build empathy through the on going story in the cutscene.
Most of Telltale’s earlier games were light hearted, so the dialogue and use of items you found lent itself to goofy, light hearted jokes.
What made Telltale so revolutionary for people in 2012 with Walking Dead: Season 1 was that Telltale refined and streamlined their template in an intelligent way so that they could reframe interactive elements to be the story directly instead of an interruption to the story. The story had become the gameplay itself so that you could personalize your story and have your choices act as an inner reflection of your self. Instead of dialogue scenes acting as a barrier to the story where players had to get information to trigger an event that continued the story, players had a large amount of participation in the story - the story in the cutscenes was the gameplay, and you had to adapt and think on your feet, and you had a much stronger investment as you could dynamically characterize your protagonist in the process. (In Season 1, they also extended this to puzzles and more detailed hub areas...)
In the process, they looked at the subtle world building elements from Season 1 like light puzzles, hub areas with lots of interaction, etc under the stigma of how those features were used in the old games. Lots of people have expressed that they felt that hub areas, puzzles, etc added to the immersion in the story in Walking Dead because even those interactive elements of the game were directly a part of the story and not just a barrier for the player to over come to progress to the story.
Since Telltale wanted to go all in on interactive story telling - in their eyes, hub areas and puzzles from Season 1 were lengthy as they wanted to focus more on a strictly interactive cinematic presentation where the player could forge their own version of a story through making choices. But, they don’t seem to see that for many people, the more direct and hands on elements of the game added to the personalized element of their story in Walking Dead: Season 1 - because, for Season 1, they had designed those extra parts of the game to where even puzzles, hub areas, etc were still directly advancing the story unlike Telltale’s older titles where those extra interactive elements were used differently in the context of those games. For Season 1, they had considered characterization of Clementine, Kenny, and Katjaa on a level where they had additions to the story you could get through talking to them outside of the main cutscenes.
That’s why several people have critically praised Life is Strange in comparison to current Telltale games. For some of its faults, Life is Strange harkens back to the design process Season 1 of Walking Dead used, where puzzles, detailed and very vibrant/lively hub areas, and other interactive elements of the game are included to fit the story. The interactive portions are still accessible to casual players and gamers alike, and still (for the most part) have the interactive elements acting as direct player involvement with the story and not as a hindrance to the story. The difference is that, for Life is Strange, they use the more extensive elements to add further immersion, characterization, and life to the universe - all under the same mindset that the gameplay is the interaction with the story and not something that hinders the story, whereas Telltale wants a more strictly cinematic presentation in their newer games where they have control of how the cinematic presentation of the story is portrayed.
I am a strong fan of their newer games, understand the reasoning behind their new focus, and still strongly support them as a longtime fan, but I agree in that adding more interactivity under the right circumstances - where the interactivity still is the story and still is not a hindrance to the story - could allow for some extremely creative venues for Telltale to give people more ways to interact with the amazing stories they tell and the amazing universes they craft outside of using a heavily streamlined version of the Season 1 format for their newer titles. Choice is definitely a core part of Telltale’s new identity - which I strongly support as a fan - and I’m not advocating that they abandon their current design philosophy. Rather, I’m saying they have further potential they could reach if they were willing to try some more experimentation and design gameplay (using both choice making and new interactive elements) that fit the story, as opposed to crafting stories that fit the gameplay.
False I will agree that with most that TWD S2 and GOT has been disappointing, but Wolf Among Us and Tales From The Borderlands are the two best games Telltale has done. Even better than Walking dead season 1
TL:DR; Reptition and streamlining of their new choice template isn't a problem like people think it is. However, for their newer titles, they design their stories to fit the template. What made Walking Dead: Season 1 a success in comparrison to their older games was that they did the opposite to where they took elements from their older template to fit the story, revised it in a context that fit the Walking Dead universe, and added new interactive elements (in this case, choice making).
They can strike gold again if they go back to the philosophy of Season 1 where they design story first and use choice making and other interactive elements from their template in a way that fits the story first instead of making games that revolve strictly around one template. Different franchises can get away with different amounts of interactive elements while still allowing for the story to directly be the gameplay without holding the story back by interrupting it.
Quite honestly, I was trying to bore my self to sleep so I tried to write something really long to help (plan failed) so I might have made mistakes somewhere or something.
Couldn't have said it better myself nice post
I really want to read what you guys wrote but im kind of bored. Sorry
ps: +1 post count for me, hehehe
as others have said, you can't explain why something is funny, and even just explaining why something is entertaining is hard enough, but i would not say TFTB is like arrested development at all, if anything it would say it was more like archer.
also i wouldn't say it had anything to do with your (and my) british sensibilities, it is just that humor is so subjective that you can even decide something isn't funny before you see it and it just won't be funny
Awesome post. My problem with telltale's newer work is not so much that they've stopped incorporating hub areas or some of the other more video-game-y aspects, actually I found them to be a nuisance to the overall experience in S1, but that they've been so quick to incorporate narrative techniques from other mediums. You wouldn't write a book like a movie, and you wouldn't write a game like a tv show. My frustration comes from them taking interesting ideas, especially in an interactive setting and giving little to no thought as to their actual application in this form.
My personal opinion is the story for TWDG S2 was miss, hopefully they can do better next time.
My issue with their recent work is not that they don't present 'Right' choices, because frankly that would be boring, but that the context that informs these choices is lacking. The Whitehalls are one dimensional, just anger with no meat on the bones. They fall flat because they just arrive, remind you how evil they are, in a saturday morning cartoon villian kinda way, and leave. There's nothing interesting there, and thus when the game calls upon you to make a decision in relation to what they've done, I just don't care. It stops me engaging, which in turn also makes the lack of agency stand out more. When telltale get it right, it doesn't matter that I'm picking from 1 of 4 pre written options, I'm engaged, I'm there, I think about what I'm saying as important and meaningful because I'm saying it to important and meaningful people.
Which aspects are those?
Visuals, sound, pacing, writing, and overall keeping me interested, I felt there was some emptiness in a few scenes in TWD. The few aspects though that I think can be worked on a little bit more are Hubs, and length of the episodes, but that's really it.
I'm amazed that you listed 'writing', but thanks for the answer.
That's cool, I won't force you to agree with my opinion ^-^
These games are very entertaining and to me that's a job well done. Their "magic" continues to be awesome as hell with so many amazing moments and scenarios TT puts us in. Then again this is all opinion crap.
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Well this is my opinion, and if I offend anyone well then that's not my fault... no one should even be offended considering it's a game...
The only games i sincerely liked from telltalegames was twd s1 and the wolf among us. OP, in all honesty, I agree with you 100 percent. No matter how much you guys declare that "alot" of people prefer twd s2 over s1, twd s1 is still a lot more preferable over s2.
Tales from Borderlands is boring, and Game of Thrones is meh. I honestly think Tales from borderlands is "hyped", but that's imo.
And it is no lie that after season 1 twd, ttg lost a lot of it's quality in the games they made b/c they were working on a whole bunch of other games at the same time. When they made s2, I imagine they were working on The Wolf Among Us, Tales from borderlands etc. and that's why it came out the way it is, a 5/10 at best.
Did you even read the post @caesar_blog wrote? Ignorance is not helpful.
Woah there man. Just because I'm not a huge fan of negative threads suddenly means I'm ignorant? I read what the guy has to say and if that's what he thinks, so fucking what. I still don't like his negativity and i'm just expressing my opinion on this thread. People just love jumping to conclusions
One of the reasons S2 wasnt as good as S1 was Sean Vanaman quit telltale. He was one of the driving minds behind the game, and made the decision to bring back Kenny.
So he's responsible for that?
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You're probably one of the more respectable members on the forum (at least imo) I wanted to ask you if you think if Telltale put out a one game a year quota they would have the same success they did with Season 1?
Yes. go to youtube and type in Playing Dead with greg miller and Gavin Hamon. Lots of good insight, and the story on bringing Kenny back. Also look at the other Playing deads, good stuff. Voice actors of Omid, Molly, Lee and interviews with the directors and producers of TTTWD.
"so fucking what"
That's not what it sounded like you were saying.
Lmao, but you aren't worth it. I've had too nice of a good day today.
Telltale very well could have a success like s1, if that's what you are asking. But as long as they are working on 4 games at the same time, that won't be likely.
Plus, season 1 is one of those telltale games that is going to be hard to top, it was a complete masterpiece imo.
Glad to know I'm not worth your time, and I'm not just saying that as sarcasm. I'm glad you don't have to deal with my utter bullshit and you can just ignore me and have a great day
After the official announcement of Mindcrap. Yes . Anytime before that . No you are dead wrong.
Ok Jan. You have a fine day too, sweetie.
In my opinion, they have been getting better and better with each game they released since season 1 of the Walking Dead. Also, I am personally fine with less puzzles in their games.
Same here.
Agreed.
It's really down to opinion based. Some people like the new games better then season one of the walking dead, some don't. But as I've said Many times, telltale put all their effort solely on season one of the walking dead. They weren't focused on multiple games at once unlike now. The more effort and time put into something, the better it looks. I haven't played game of thrones or borderlands because I'm not a fan of those series', but I liked the wolf among us, and season two of the walking dead was good, not great but good. I think they need to focus on ONE game at a time. That way they can put a lot more effort into it.
Its not worth losing access to those other games to me.
Opinion taken. I just wish they'd put the effort in like they did with season one. Give me the feeling of anticipation for the next episode. When season two came out, I had no excitement. But hey, that's just my opinion.