Will Asher lose the respect of the pit fighters?
At the end of episode 5 you have to chose which brother survives. That was one of the most difficult decisions so far. And the fact that 50% picked Asher and 50% picked Rodrik shows that this really is difficult. In chose to let Rodrik live, even if Ashers death is sadder and dont makes much sense imo. I thought Rodrik could be a better lord for the future since he is expierenced. But I listened to other peoples opinions, and many people chose Asher because he has the respect of the pit fighters. Until a few minutes ago I thought this is a valid point, but then I watched the ending scene a few times. When Asher runs and crawls under the gate you can see Amaya is standing there, seeing everything. I have a bad feeling that the pit fighters could think Asher is a coward, running from a fight and that his brother was tougher than he was. If Asher stays behind they will think the same, they saw Asher as a real leader and Rodrik as a coward. Could be that the pit fighters will make trouble in episode 6, what do you think?
Comments
I think pit fighters won't think that Asher is a coward. Because if you see that moment where Rodrik stays behind, you will see that both Beskha and Amaya help Asher to stand. But when Asher stays behind, only Beskha help Rodrik to stand. I suppose this small fact means something.
It will probably depend if you killed Bloodsong. The strongest leader survives and the strongest leader tells the others what to. So if Asher listens to Rodrick then Asher is saying Rodrick is HIS champion, so the pitfighters will be inclined to listen to him more. Maybe.
Ahh, I typed a very long answer and somehow my browser refreshed and it was all gone
. So I write this a little shorter, sorry:
Valid point, didnt noticed that before. But Asher was wounded, an arrow in your leg is no small injury. He had problems with even walking before, so maybe they just wanted "both" to be sure he gets up fast enough before he gets impaled by that gate. Or maybe Amaya is fond of Asher. In the first conversation with her she was quite nice to him, no matter what he said. But maybe it doenst really matter what Amaya thinks, maybe the pit fighters have their own opinion about that and on that ship she had a few problems with keeping them under control. They could have started losing respect, cause she hasnt done anything so far that proves she is a strong leader.
The thing is I know how Telltale Games work. You can change dialogs and make some decisions that will change a few things, but the plot itself always goes on in almost the same way. In my old post which got lost thanks to my browser I explained that a little better, hope you know what I mean. I just think that the pit fighters will no matter who survive act the same way. I believe that they either follow both into battle, or that they make problems no matter who survived. People hope that this time choices will matter much more than before, but I dont believe that. But I will be much more excited if episode 6 will be that way
Thanks for taking my point of view. But as I remember Amaya was like a "Big Mama" for pit fighters - they listen only her before Asher came (According to Beast). So I think it' ll be ok- nobody can refuse Asher's grin and his pretty companions ( Beskha and Amaya) will help him anytime;)
It would be such a blow if the pit fighters thought Asher was a coward. They might abandon him.
All four of them.
*All five
C'mon don't insult our majestic one digit army !
I think if your scenario does happens,the gold will convince them to either stay or not.
How many pitt fighters are left like 4 at most? Really?
I highly doubt the pit fighters will see whoever survived as "cowardly", as the decision of who decided to stay (not who decided to run) was up to the player. Only one person could escape or they would both be killed. Asher losing the respect of the pit-fighters would be a totally moronic arc to say the least.
Like 8-10 I would say. Add that to like the 10 Ironrath guards, we have an army of 20. And if Elaena can get the Glenmore Elite back, we will have like close to 40 soldiers.
That's a big if about the Glenmores. As Ramsay said they swore fealty to the Boltons and if Lord Glenmore was intimidated by Ludd Whitehill he'll be shitting bricks if Roose comes knocking. I believe it was Duncan who said the Whitehills had twice their numbers which is 50 or more men.
Fair enough, it was just a theory.
I feel the same way, maybe I dindt made that clear. But people/characters have their own way of thinking. Many of the pit fighters didnt saw this event in the first place, and they "could" think it was a decision of who decided to run away. They werent too smart when we met them, they only want to kill and dont really care much if one of them dies. The strongest survive and the weak die, thats how they lived. They were described as killers and not as sellswords. Dont expect them to really understand that situation when one of the brothers sacrificed himself to save the other, they never experienced such things. It would be really stupid if that really happens, but its possible.
If that happens I really hope the gold will be the difference. I saw many Lets Plays on YT and I always wondered why so many people let Beshka kill that slave master or even killed him himself. Imo it was pretty clear that this will have consequences. I hope that gold will have some use in episode 6.
Asher says I have an army. But they are just 5.
What 2 or 5 pit fighters thinks is not Asher's biggest problem now.
There are probably more that we just don't see. I think in one of the early episodes they say the whitehills have around 10000 men. They leave 20 at Ironwrath but did we see all 20? It's just a fact of how much time it would take to create models for an entire army. There could be many many more than the 5 that we see.
My Asher proved himself already. If this loses their respect, than he never had it to begin with.
10000 men?! That makes no sense! And Whitehill tried to buy even more in King's Landing! He's going to attack Ironrath or invade Poland?
I didnt manage to gain their respect anyway so hopefully theres a way to redeem that.
Why? Yes it does. You can always have more. Ironwrath obviously, good luck invading a country of 38m with 1000 men.
No it doesn't. A third tier house won't have over a thousand men let alone 10,000, thats getting into numbers that the Boltons would have. The Whitehills and Forresters don't have over five hundred men, even if their forces were combined.
I really wouldn't care if we lost their respect, in my save I've got Asher surviving too but when we saw a shot of our people crawling under the gate to try and help Rodrik and Asher, I didn't see one pit fighter. That'd be my response back if they try and turn their noses up to me, didn't see you guys doing anything to help!
I think there is a knightly house in the reach that can muster a 1000 men but the population in the reach is a lot bigger than in the north. But it is not impossible for a low tier house to have that many men it just depend on from which region in westeros your house is from.
For a third-tier house I would say +1000 men is impossible regardless of region. When you can get that many men or more you cease to be third-tier house. 500-5000 is second-tier, +5000 is first-tier or really strong second-tier (i.e Boltons, Freys, Karstarks, and Florents)
Armies in the South are bigger though, because there are more Houses.
I was wrong it was house Tempelton from the vale and their Power and influence is comparable to many lords in the vale.
What are you basing this on other than pure speculation. Who mentioned 10,000 men? That's called setting up a strawman to knock down. I'm not sure if you and the other guy are trying to troll or if you're just bad at expressing arguments.
But for the sake of argument lets say they have 500. My point would still stand, which was you won't get to see their full army or the full army of pit fighters because it would take too long to create all their models for little effect. Just because you don't see something on screen doesn't mean they don't exist in the game world. So it is perfectly reasonable that there are more than the 5 pit fighters that we've seen.
You mentioned 10,000 men. Although it looks like that may have been a typo based on your response. I'm basing this on the books directly telling us how many men people have. I didn't disagree with your statement that they were simply not modeling all the men, that seems to be the most likely scenario.
Fair enough I do now see the typo. But if I remember correctly the mountain clans that Stannis recruits to his cause are very minor houses and they add 3000 to his army. 3000 from 4 families. That's after taking heavy losses at the red wedding and from the mountain. However, the reason I said 1000 is because in another thread someone claimed that was a quote from episode 1 or 2 of the game - that the whitehills had 1000. I haven't replayed the episodes to check if that's right but I believed them at the time.
To clarify this Whitehill situation: At the end of episode 1 Duncan said the Whitehills have 5 times as many men as the Forresters have. In episode 3 Royland said the Forrester could gather 30-40 men. So the Whitehills have 150-200 men. But people died and the Forresters hired pit fighters later. So my guess is that the Forresters have about 20-25 soldiers left for their own, and maybe 10-30 pit fighters (assuming there are more than the 5 we saw "on-screen"). Rodrik and Asher killed 5 Whitehills at the end of episode 5, and Arthur killed one at Ironrath [determinant]. "If" the Forresters soldiers/pit fighters killed a few of the Whitehills at the trap they have lost about 10 people. My assumption for episode 6 is:
Forresters: 30-55 men (+ 20 or more Glenmore soldiers if they decide to help house Forrester)
Whitehills: 140-190 men
The Whitehills are surely in the better position, with more soldiers and Ryon as hostage. The Forresters have to start playing dirty, or at least make some good moves to win this fight. Or they have to hope that Ludd/Gryff makes a real stupid move and sacrifices a big part of their army. Or the Forresters could defend Ironrath and the Whitehills lose many soldiers during siege. Lets wait and see
I think people like these pit fighters lose or win their respect quickly. If Asher kills the strongest of them they are impressed. If someone kills Asher, they start to follow the new one. And maybe if they see Asher running away from a fight they might think he is a coward. I dont think so myself, but its still possible.
I hope so too. Rodrik should get a chance to win their respect too.
I dont think there are just 2-5 pit fighters left. Remember the Arthur scene when you decide to bring the 20 Glenmores with you to Highpoint. There are like 5-6 soldiers with you at Highpoint, even if they have 20. As far as I know this engine they use has problems with many characters at once. A good example for that is Walking Dead season 1, when you see a herd and they just used an moving image to portray that herd. I believe there are more pit fighters left, like 10-30 I would guess.
Thanks for the clarification on what was said in game. I'll take your word for it. But the Glenmore soldiers that arrived at Ironwrath were only the "elite guard" or something like that and we don't know if any of them are left. Oh well it's all speculation and it will be interesting to see if there will be a wide shot of the battle showing the size of both forces. It seems unlikely, it will more likely be like Mereen. We'll go into the Whitehills castle or something and fight no more than 5 at a time.
I think my asher will loose there repsect because hes more merciful I think they may do something brash like try and kill gwyn and what u say to beshka in the episode weill determine wetehr or not she sticks up for mabey even saves her I think hell show mercy to lord white hill the pit fighter will be like no and want to kill everything after all the beast did say he wanted to kill evrythign and pilagge everything I said u will do no such thing and the black lady was like well see how tht goes when we get there
What does this have to do with Poland?
The Glenmore elite guard left Ironrath at the orde of Ramsay Snow. I just speculated that lord Glenmore could help house Forrester (maybe if Elaena is wed to Rodrik), but we dont know if they will help. Because of that I didnt count them in my calculation.
Would be awesome to see the whole army on-screen, but the Forrester would have no chance to win this kind of fight (army vs army on a battlefield). And I think the Telltale engine has problems with many characters at once, since they didnt show the 20 men elite guard at highpoint or at Ironrath and they didnt have shown the herd in walking dead (just an moving image of it).
But nontheless Iam excited to see the last episode. I just hope we get a relatively good ending, depending on your decisions
Good point, I just hope we get the option to say that if they start losing their respect.
After reading your post I asked myself the question: What do we do with the pit fighters if we really win this war? Killing is their hobby and what can we do if there is no enemie left to kill? They will either start fighting the smallfolk, attack each other or attack an other house. Whatever they will do is dangerous for house Forrester. I dont think they will be satisfied by hunting animals and I dont think they will learn the rules of Westeros. I think the best option would be to give them some gold and send them back to Essos, but I dont know if they want to go back there since they were slaves there.
I sincerely hope to god you're not serious.....