Missed oppurtinity?
goinoutwithabang
Banned
I think "Saving Beshka Or Malcolm" and "Let Besha Kill Master or Not" choices should effect on Beshka's decision on coming with you to Westeros. If you treated her nice, she comes with you. If you treated her like shit, she does not come with you and stays behind. I think this would've choices matter much more. What do you think?
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That might have been a fun idea but if they did that it would make her determinate, as she comes with you no matter what they might have something planned for her in episode 6 as she will be there for Asher if Rodrik stays behind and if Asher stays behind you can tell her to protect Rodrik so i'm guessing she might play a main or important part in the final episode.
Maybe she'll be the protector of the lord or something like that.
Since I never liked Beskha's character I made everything to distance Asher from her since episode 1. As soon as episode 3 she was so pissed off already she logically told Asher that she wouldn't go to Westeros with him.
In episode 5 after even worse treatment and the Master situation where I forbid her to take her revenge, suddenly she starts to call Asher "little brother" when she didn't even call him that previously, and she comes because "you're my family after all", when I made sure to make clear to her at every opportunity available that Asher's only family was his real one.
WTF. It didn't make the slightest sense. When we complain about the fact that choices don't matter, it's exactly this. I mean, if Telltale had decided that Asher and Beskha end up having this "brother/sister" relationship no matter what, then don't give us dialogues and choices that would logically prevent any chance of such close relationship to happen.
We want choices to matter = we'd rather have less apparent freedom and less directions but that when you direct your characterization toward an available direction, the game don't force a 180 turn on you.
No fake choices.
i agree with you
i think she could've been replaced with Amaya or someone else . It'd add replayability to this game which isn't a bad thing.
This is why if you chose to Let Asher Die I will be mad if she stays to fight with Rodrick . She told Asher if he died she would take the gold and run. I don't see any reason for her to stay if Asher dies she made it clear several times in the game that she did not like his family . Mentions them exiling him several times . Curses Malcolm when he volunteers her for Mereen mission, and when she asks who is in charge of the army she says Lord sounds an awful lot like master . If she stays and fights I will lose my shit.
Well, I mean, it doesn't really make sense for Asher to hate Beskha as he's been hanging out with her voluntarily for years.
Familial bonds are year-spanning, and the strong bond between them had been made long before we take control of Asher, whether you like it or not. If Beskha was a character we meet as Asher for the first time in the game, then yeah, it'd make sense for the relationship to be more divergent. But it's canon for Beskha and Asher to be very close, or they wouldn't be together years after meeting each other.
I completely disagree, I think that would go way against what Beskhas character is all about. Remember that we're told that Beskha and Asher have spent years together, I think if she were to not go with him over 2 or so choices then that would be pretty dumb.
I agree with that too, it's just a matter of long term memory when it comes to how I treat a certain person that comes into play. I treated Beskha like family the entire time, it was just with other characters really.
Yeah, that's exactly my point. In your case it's the perfect outcome for the way you developed their relationship. In my case it's just stupid.
Hadn't really thought about that yet.
Let's see : on the one hand, sure, she owes nothing to Rodrick, has no fealty or any bond to him, involving herself in his war can have her killed (and from what she could see of it, the Forresters don't look on the winning side).
On the other hand as a mercenary she's still offered a job and a reward that she could hope would make it worth it, and as personal motivation avenge Asher.
But like you said throughout the game she constantly showed her disdain/contempt for Asher's family. In the end I guess I wouldn't find it as off-character as you do if she stays, because it's not like she has zero valid reasons, but yeah, if she goes out of her mercenary way to serve the Forrester cause (like acting disinterested or selflessly heroic for them) or to bond with the family, I will find it ridiculous.
Indeed, "hate" is a strong word, and that's why I didn't use it, you are the one bringing it up.
I'll tell you when I started disliking Beskha through Asher. Right in their first dialogue, when she discusses the reward for the captured guy and hints that they could go anywhere and enjoy whores and booze forever, Asher tells instead of his desire to buy passage back to Westeros, and expresses nostalgia for home and family. She doesn't understand that and tries to discourage him from this thoughts, she wants him to forget about them and even encourages him to be angry at them.
That forged my conception of a distance and incomprehension between them that I then proceeded to further widen through choices.
I played every single of my protagonists as tremendously loyal to House Forrester above all things else, and Asher was no exception. He missed home sorely and suffered from his exile (canonically), doesn't mean he didn't make the best of the mercenary life he had to adopt and could not enjoy some of its pleasures, but it was a life by default the way I saw it. Which he would leave without a regret the very minute a chance for coming back would appear.
That's the way I played it. The minute Malcolm appeared with ill news from home, my Asher wouldn't give the slightest fuck anymore about Essos and this mercenary life. Not necessarily about Beskha, reportedly a loyal companion during the last 4 years, but her attitude made me saw her as the "temptress" who tried to discourage Asher from fulfilling his duty, to keep him back from his home and family and place as a nobleman of House Forrester, to hold him back to the life of whoring and boozing. Her criticisms of his family (a family she didn't know from a hole in the ground) and attitude toward Malcolm annoyed me a huge lot, and every opportunity I got for Asher to make clear his family were his family I took it.
It's only four years, mate. Four years are not that long. Hell when I think of events in my IRL life from 4 years ago I feel like it was only last year. If I moved to another country for four years without seeing my family and made a best pal there, even my best friend ever, our bond would still not match by any means what I have with my family, the memories and experience I have with my brothers.
You seem to imply that all pre-established relationships have to be continued the way they looked they were initially, and we can't change them or it would not be canon.
I'm sorry but I used choices and dialogue options offered by the game. I did not make up the dialogue choices where Asher could tell Beskha off, or the choices that pissed her off. They were in the game as possibilities for relationship development. I merely chose one of the directions made available to me by Telltale.
Following your logic no matter what a character says or does, I shouldn't use the choices that make my protagonist react too negatively if said character is pre-established to be a close friend, but only stick to the choices or lines that maintain or strengthen this friendship.
Look, what my initial comment was about is the fact that despite having developed the relationship between Asher and Beskha in a way that should not have got them closer, but on the contrary created more distance between them than their was in the beginning, she ends up acting like their bond is way closer than when we first play Asher.
Calling him "little brother" when she did not when they were in pre-established much better terms. Deciding to go with Asher at episode 5, when she warned him as soon as my episode 3 that she was disappointed in him and would not go. She changed her mind despite my Asher giving her no single reason to do so, on the contrary, if anything his behaviour in my game should have raised any doubt in Beskha's mind about her initial decision.
Now if Telltale wanted this bond to end up stronger and deeper canonically, that's fine by me, but they shouldn't have implemented all those possibilities that make such an eventual outcome so unlikely and incoherent in my game.
So our choices shouldn't matter at all okay
*Episode 2
Yep.
Try and see it this way. We have been given a book by Telltale, but we have the ability to decide a character's actions, dialogue and attitude. The story will stay the same, but you are deciding how you want the scenes to play out.
This is your subjective experience.
I have a question, have you tried a save where you never agreed with her from day one? Cause obviously your image of Beskha's character is shaped by your own game and experience of trusting her and treating her like a close friend, so she logically replied in the same way, and throughout the game they developed such a strong bond in your game that of course even if you had failed her on those 2 choices OP mentioned, you shared so much it would seem to you off her character to resent you that much for it. In your game.
But it's not only about the 2 choices OP mentioned. It's plenty interactions, some with "Beskha will remember that"/"Bekha noticed that" notifications.
Trust me, I've played that way and in my game Beskha not coming was the logical and coherent outcome, her changing her mind was a 180 turn, coming out of nowhere.
Like I've explained earlier ITT, I was quite offended right at the beginning at her criticisms toward my family and attempts at making Asher forgetting them, so I made him cold and unsupportive to make it clear the family and return home were the top priority - she was welcome to help but I would never compromise my duty for her.
Always favored my uncle, because well, I liked him at first sight and he was a link with former protagonist Ethan that I sorely missed as a player. And, knowing Telltale, I prepared very early for a "him or her" moment, and in such cases when you are between two 'rival' characters, since I've learned to know Telltale Games mechanics, it's better not to be lukewarm or you can be disappointed and have the one you preferred leave you because a few occasions you let him down.
When you take that road of course her character develops in a different way than you experienced. The more I got cold, the more she got cold in return.
And regarding the 2 choices OP talked about, if you failed Beskha the justification you give her is very important. If you saved Malcolm and explain to her "I thought you could handle it" or "I didn't have time to think", it seems logical that Beskha can get over it. "Malcolm is family" (which I chose) is completely different. Asher can't be more clear : whatever you think there is between us, Malcolm is family, he matters more.
She reacted accordingly by saying she realized she was mistaken about what they thought was between them, and that she would only stick around for a while for the sakes of goold old times, but wouldn't accompany Asher to Westeros. It made sense - it was perfectly on character in my game, the character she had developed through our interactions.
Anyway, I could give you all the examples (refusing her the water, telling her on at least two occasions I wasn't sure I could trust her, ordering not to drink after she told me the sad story of her childhood and could have used a drink, etc...) and on top of that I denied her the vengeance she had waited for so long, without giving her any apologies - but trust me, at episode 5 her coming was a huge shocker.
^^^MY IMMEDIATE THOUGHT AFTER READING^^^
not true at all, i treated beshka like shit but she still likes Asher and wants go with him?
I was talking about our playable characters.