Most In-Character Ending for Clem (Morals or Friendship)
Hey guys, I was replaying No Going Back and my original ending choice was to leave Wellington with Kenny. But I concluded the "Kenny: leave with him/stay in Wellington." and "Alone: shoot Kenny, leave Jane." endings are the most in-character endings for Clem but can't choose between them and wont go into S3 until I get a convicing argument.
The "Leave with Kenny" Ending seems fitting because she and Kenny understand eachother's pain, have a 3 month old friendship spanning over 2 years and 11 months, have been through a lot together and have ties to Lee, which she would not easily give up for shelter or a stranger she literally met a week ago and much less forgive for forcing her to shoot her friend.
Next is the "Stay in Wellington" Ending which seems in-character as well because it was Clementine, Christa, Kenny and the cabin group's original destination and Clem would honor all their sacrifices by staying but it's not something she would willingly choose. But, after everything that happened and some convincing from Kenny she would eventually agree.
Lastly the "Alone" Ending makes sense too considering Clem's willingness to help those in need would force her to kill Kenny to protect Jane, ending with Clem leaving after she discovers Jane's treachery.
I would go for the "Alone" ending but is it really worth sacrificing Clem's only friend, put her through so much pain, loneliness and suffering, leave her alone in the world again, with a baby and ultimately make her lose trust in people just so she could save Jane, a liar, or is Clem's last tie to Lee worth her life? Share your thoughts.
Please let's discuss only the Kenny endings, I consider leaving with Jane out of character after what she made Clem do.
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Could you do me, and most people, a favor and add paragraphs to your text? Right now, it is so difficult, annoying and painful to read yout text, and no fun at all. Just one or two.
Anyway, well, I don't think there is "the one fitting" ending for Clem, because every one has, or can have, a different Clem. And for each kind of Clem, one Ending fits more than the other would for a different Clem.
There is the kind, thoughtful and hopeful Clem, who hasn't changed that much and still sees the good in every one. She is idealistic and naive, to a point where she risks her and other people's life. Here I don't really know which Ending would fit most, gotta think about it.
Then there is the emotionally hardened, but still hopeful sassy Clem, who can be very sarcastic. But who is still helpful and compassionate, and will help those that can be helped. That one is my favorite. For her, I think either Killing Kenny and abandoning Jane or going with Jane and letting the people in fits the best. Because this Clem is a realist without becoming a Jackass, and she knows that Kenny has gone to a point of no Return, and that he is more dangerous than it's worth. With Jane, either she thinks that she is dangerously clinging to Clem, or Clem realizes that either way, she and AJ are more safe going with her, and still caring for other people, hence letting the family in.
Then there is the complete Jerk Clem, who does everything she can do ensure her own survival, including Blackmailing, Killing and letting die people that are a burden. And in general, being a very mean person. This one makes the most sense if you played Lee in Season 1 as a Jerk too. For her, either the letting Kenny kill Jane and then shooting Kenny would fit, because she thinks after all that happened in Season 2, she is better alone, or going with Kenny and leaving him for that place (forgot the name), just waiting for the first moment to abandoning him for a better life for herself (and maybe the baby), or going with Jane and then not letting the people in, because she thinks she is better with Jane then alone, and liking Jane's "we do what's best for us" way of survival.
Then there is the emotionally completely destroyed Clem, who is so scarred that she has gone to almost complete silence. You know, always picking the silence option when possible. For this Clem, seeing Omid die and Christa vanish, it was just too much for her (she is a child after all). For her, most fitting would be letting Kenny kill Jane and going with him, because he is the closest person she has left, and she would die without him.
Thanks for telling me that, looked like a testament lol. Anyway it's fixed so it should be more readable.
Ah, yeah, thank you! Now it is much more readable. It would have been a shame otherwise because you have good and interesting points.
What I would be interested in, on what kind of Clem did you base your Theories? How did you play Clem?
IMO the alone ending is the most moral and emotional.
Well I played my Lee as a nice guy who tried to keep the group together and broke off fights. My Lee found himself agreeing with Kenny for the most part so him and Kenny became bros.
As Clememtine I played her similar as Lee, she was nice and friendly but with more "open eyes" about the world, retaining most of her innocence (No drinking, smoking and swearing) and was hopeful, but also aware of the things she needed to do to survive. When the choice between Kenny and Jane came up I wanted to save Jane because even though Lee and Clem were pals with Kenny, My Clem couldn't let Kenny kill a woman which at that moment she believed was innocent. But she also didn't want to kill Kenny which to her was the last person of value she had left.
So I was torn, do the moraly right thing: save Jane and end up alone (Because after that stunt I wasn't forgiving Jane anytime soon) or throw morals out the window for the sake of friendship and stay with Kenny.
Yeah you're right, thats why I'm torn I just can't decide between that one and the Kenny ones. They're all so fitting. Which one did you pick?
Also when you say the "Alone" ending is the best which variant do you speak of? There are 3 versions.
Well my ending was to forgive Jane. But what i really wanted was to still be mad at her but have her around still. I mean, i have a baby to look after! Canon ending i can't honestly see her staying with Kenny so shoot Kenny and leave Jane i think!
Really, it will depend on how it is explored in the future usually the follow up on decisions shows which one makes the most sense
What? What makes Clem and Kenny's pain unique to every single other characters? They've both lost family yes... just like Luke? And Rebecca? And Nick? And Ben? And Christa? And Jane? And Molly?
I don't think being with someone for 3 months, then not seeing them for a year and a half, constitutes a '3 year friendship'. It was a three month friendship, and even that is dubious as they clearly canonically weren't that close at all at the end of season 1, or Kenny would have tried to help Lee save her unconditionally.
I mean, there are people from university I was in the same class with for 6 months, and haven't seen them for 2 years or so - that doesn't mean we have a two year long friendship.
Here's the thread's main problem. We define parts of Clementine's character. My Clem helping Jane to be more compassionate, resulting in Jane deciding to let the family in, fitted my clementine's aims perfectly. Clementine can determinantely not like Kenny at all (as per dialogue options in episode 2) so her 'characteristically' siding with kenny makes no sense - we define some of her characteristics, including whether she likes Kenny.
Your'e right they've all lost people but they both understand what the other has lost more than anyone else so they can put a hand each others shoulders and say "I know what your going through."
And yes your right on that as well, but I guess those 3 months still amount to more than the rest of the cast of Season 2. Kenny's had those 3 months and the entirety of Season 2 with Clem. Also yes depending on your Lee he doesn't help out, but remember if you save Ben he sacrifices himself for a guy he hates, and if Ben dies he sacrifices himself to save Christa so she can get Lee the radio to SAVE Clem.
Thats the point of this thread, if the Clem who does like Kenny would shoot him to save a life or love him too much to do it. Nice points though.
The ALONE ending with AJ...Duh
I'll post the same thing here that I posted on another thread
Going with Kenny: I don't like Kenny that much especially after he kills Jane. He does'nt listen to anyone and thinks he's always right. He tortured Arvo, forced the group to go to Wellington and that's why Mike and Bonnie decided to leave and more importantly he killed Jane who said clearly that IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.
Staying at Wellington: What if its like TERMINUS? They said that the're over-capacity so Clem would clearly be a liability and burden on them
Going with Jane: I hated her after the baby kill drama. She's cold and she does anything possible to get what she wants even if that means killing someone.
And family: The man was acting weird and suspicious. He had his hand on his gun all the time while talking to two girls while one of them was holding a baby. And when you make them leave he threatens us that we'll regret it (or something).
Alone: No one cold, no one dangerous, no one suspicious with us. And above that acting upon Lee's advice Always keep moving
Yeah I guess that makes the most sense, but while I agree with the ending you chose and what you said about it, Kenny was friends with my Lee and Clem which is what keeps me from going alone. You see as crazy as Kenny was he cared about Clem and AJ and I feel that should Clem save him she can eventually help him heal, but Ill consider the alone ending over Kenny's.
FYI, Jane lets the family in if you let the timer run out. http://avery-lainey.tumblr.com/post/101890438172/i-wanted-to-see-what-would-happen-if-you-did
What was most characteristic for my Clementine was leaving Wellington with Kenny. In my game and mind (and possibly mine alone) Clementine considered Kenny to be a family member just as much as he did to her. Again, my opinion, abandoning or killing Kenny seemed too much like abandoning her last remaining link to Lee.
Finally, a like minded guy, that right there is why I can't choose between killing him and sparing him.
Clem's torn because she feels she has to help others in need but doesn't want to shoot her "family."
Yes, I understand that feeling. Having to make that decision was really painful.
So I'm going to try to make sense of this shitfest of a narrative that my Clem went through.
The way I see it, my Clem was happy be taken care of Omid and Christa in the beginning of the season, once again having a family. After Omid's death, Christa strained the emphasis of survival to Clem, so much that the 'family' aspect didn't matter as much any more. After Clem gets separated from Christa, she tries to seek aspects of family with the cabin group or Kenny, rather than acting like a hardened and pragmatic individual who emphasized survival above all else. I like to think my Clem chose staying with Kenny because in the end, she prioritized family (Kenny) over survival (Wellington).
Exactly man, that's what most people here dont seem to get. The majority shot Kenny because they hated him but Clem doesn't, sure you can make her say she doesn't like him but it's established in her character that she likes Kenny, hell they dedicated the Season to their bond and wether Clem still trusted him, even though he was going insane. No matter if Clem said she didnt like him she keeps a drawing of him and CRIES when he dies. Its just written that way.
There is no canon Clem. My Clementine is a realist who acts decisively, just tells people what they want to hear in private and straddles the fence until the last possible second in group debates. I let Kenny kill Jane because she made her play and it was a stupid play and I'm not going to kill Kenny because she picked a fight she couldn't win. I didn't even necessarily dislike her. But she made a dumb decision and died for it. Not my problem.
Woah that's cold bro. So did you go with Kenny or did you shoot or ditch him after?
I went with Kenny. When he killed her all I said was damn, are you okay? When Jane said to just trust her before the fight, I figured out exactly what was going on. Think about how loony it is that she's deliberately trying to murder Kenny or get me to do it. Say what you want about him, at least he's loyal to a fault. Plus this is the dude who took a dozen shots from a metal radio to the face and it just made Hulk mad and she's a hundred pound girl without a gun.
And I went with AJ to Wellington but have subsequently regretted the decision because we all know how "safe havens" turn out in TWD in any media. That's why the alone ending made no sense to me, an eleven year old girl alone with an infant on the road is dead meat.
In what way does Clementine understand what Kenny has lost more than what Lilly has lost?
Clem has never lost a partner or child, but she has lost her parents, as Lilly did, as Luke did (they even bond over this fact), as Nick did.
Those 3 months clearly didn't bond them closely though, or Kenny would have helped to save Clementine in all playthroughs. He can't have cared much ab out her if he were capable of refusing.
The thread is entitled 'most characteristic ending for Clem' not 'most characteristic ending for a clementine who loves Kenny', and if it were the latter then obviously the Kenny endings fit.
Did you pay attention to the final Kenny/Jane scene?
She isn't trying to get Clementine to kill Kenny, nor trying to do it herself until he instigates a fight the second time when Jane puts \away her knife and tells him to stay away.
The entire point is that she's trying to convince Clementine that Kenny is dangerous, and staying with him would put her at risk down the road. She wasn't unsuccessful at showing this.
No. Absolutely not. This is purely your opinion for your particular playthrough and not a fact by any means.
She started crying before she shot Kenny. She was crying because she was being driven to a life or death decision. Not necessarily because she was grieving over Kenny's death. My Clem sure as hell wasn't grieving over him.
Let's not act like she didn't know pretending the baby dying would send Kenny over the edge. Or that Kenny would react violently. She had literally been warning Clementine about it for two episodes. And at the end of the day, I wasn't gonna murder Kenny-who I had a love/hate relationship with at best in my playthrough-because she lost the fight she picked.
You probably shouldn't provoke the guy on the edge into a psychotic rage on purpose and then be surprised when he completely loses his shit. I guess she really wasn't such a pragmatic survivor at the end of the day.
Just saw it and...
Jane ACTUALLY caring for others. I KNEW she had the capacity.
Yup, me too. : ) Also, if you let the timer run out, she lets Arvo keep his meds, and similarly if you let the timer run out, Jane drops herself down and goes to help Sarah at the observation deck of her own accord. ^^
Yeah, no. As I wrote in my Comment, it's the first one here in this thread, there are only a few things, really only one or two, that are established in her character, like that she is tough and can fight walkers almost as good as any adult. But that's about it. The rest, almost her whole character, is determined by the individual player.
If you play Clem as someone not liking Kenny, than that Clem doesn't like Kenny. It doesn't matter what you think or you did, it's each persons choice how they play Clem. My favorite Clem does like Kenny, but just as my favorite Lee came to realize, that Kenny is more dangerous than not. And it doesn't matter what you think, that's the way I play them.
Exactly, she wasn't as pragmatic as many believed, she risked her life so Clem could see how crazy Kenny became.
And you just wrote the reason why I killed Kenny. I am going to quote you: "she [...] know[s] pretending the baby dying would send Kenny over the edge. Or that Kenny would react violently", "the guy on the edge into a psychotic rage", "he completely loses his shit".
Those are the reasons I killed Kenny. She knew that Kenny was one tragic death away from getting into a psychotic rage. And what if Jane wasn't there, or Clem was the reason the Baby died, as in she couldn't protect it. Who knows if Clem wouldn't be the victim of his rage. And don't claim that Kenny wouldn't do anything to Clem. I don't know what happens if you kill the walker, but if you chop off Sarita's arm, Kenny was very close on flipping on Clem, and left her to her potential death in the walker herd. He left her. to. die. I am not sure he wouldn't (in fact, I am sure he would) do it again if Clem somehow lost or couldn't protect the baby.
Woah, I did not know that. I mean, I always liked Jane, and for me, going with Jane is still the best ending, but I didn't know that she would do that. Makes me like her even more.
YouTube
Ah, thank you. The last few days I was replaying Season 1 and 2 of TWD, finished Episode 5 today , which is why I spent some time here on this forum again. But I went with the "chopping of Sarita's hand" choice again, since that was what I was doing the very first time I played the Epsiodes, and changing my choices based on what I know is gonna happen (but Clem doesn't), would be wrong, too gamey. But it seems, that Kenny will be Angry with Clem no matter what, though less so if you kill the walker. And after replaying Episode 4 and 5, and listening to what Jane said how, knowing what's going to happen, I grew to like her even more.
Again, thank you for the Video Link.
When I worked through the angles-and I was doing it in the space of the shoot/look away decision-Kenny made the most logical sense. Yeah, he's impulsive and nuts but I didn't believe he would ever hurt Clem or the baby and would do anything including sacrificing his own life to save us.
Jane, on the other hand, was a but more problematic. I felt about her sort of like the Carol thing in TWD show: yeah, she might be right to take extreme measures, but can I afford to have someone around who's willing to do that kind of thing in a position to screw me? No. Plus she's unreliable at best and was in the course of making the least practical decision in the world. No good answer, so I chose the least worst.
Exactly, when she said trust me... I immediately knew I couldn't trust her. It's a classic thing... And honestly if I could've controlled clem at that moment I would've went Killer-Kenny on them too.
Btw this is unrelated, but has anyone made a video of Kennys death, with a southpark dub over it? I'm just curious cause that would be hilarious
Me too. : )
That's really the beauty of Telltale games in general, that they inspire these kind of discussions. This is still going strong months after the game ended. I've never seen any other games that cause people to really question their morals and ethics like this. It's a fascinating phenomenon.
I always thought-having run through TWD games way more than I care to admit to see all the possibilities-that people get way too upset about the lack of narrative freedom. They have to use "the string of pearls" system, where the main plot points get hit no matter what but how you get there can be different. I remember Gary Whitta said that the scripts are about five times as large as a normal script for a game.
Basically, I think people get too upset about the destination when the game is about enjoying the ride. I'm a writer, it's insanely hard to write one really good line of dialogue and a reaction line to it, Telltale manages to write three clever give and takes for every choice and that alone is super impressive.
Exactly man!
And we probably still will talk about Lee after season 3
Well, here I disagree. I wouldn't believe Kenny could hurt Clem either UNTIL he just did that, by letting her die the moment he thinks Clem is responsible, indirectly as it is, for the death of a person he loved. He may not have been thinking straight in that moment, but that's the problem with Kenny. When he is calm and collected and he likes you, he can be one of the best guys out there. But once you get on his bad side, once he loses j´his temper, or once it looks like you might have not done enough to save a person he does love, he's dangerous. I mean, I began to dislike him already in Season 1, since he tried to get Lee killed just because my Lee didn't help him murder someone he doesn't like (Larry), even though before Lee did only good to Kenny. And that's not someone you want to have around.
With Jane, you might think she's that cold, heartless Lonerbitch, but she isn't. SHE was the one turning around and helping Becca and Clem, while the other one just abandoned them, including Kenny. Even though she thought it was a bad Idea. Also, if you let the timer run out at her ending, she lets the family in. Also, haven't tried it myself unlike that at the ending, I was told that if you let run out the timer, she let's Arvo keep his medicine and jumps down to try and help Sarah. Doesn't sound that cold now, does it?
That shows what I think is another Problem: For Kenny, it shows goes down. For him, everything get's worse, HE gets worse. He gets colder and crazier every minute. With Jane, it's the exact opposite. The more time she spends with Clem, the more she opens up and becomes nicer. And I'd rather be with someone I can still help to become better, than someone for whom it can only go worse.
Just hope that telltale can step up from Season 2 which was incredible IMO, but there was still room for improvement.