Mira has no personality
-AsherGrin-
Banned
Now, let me prep this question by establishing that: I am not a hater.
I think Game of Thrones is by far one of TellTale's best games, certainly the one I've enjoyed most, second only to Season 1 of the Walking Dead. And I didn't even think Episode 5 of the game was bad, and was surprised to see the reception on the forums.
Now, anyway, back to my point. Ever since the first episode, I've really digged and got invested in the characters. I really like(d) Ethan and Gared. In fact, most of the characters. But there's always been one I've struggled to connect with, like at all. Mira. Which is weird, considering I like Talia so, so much.
Just going from the codex, gameplay and and lines of dialogue... Rodrik is brave, stubborn, and honorable. Groomed for command, and a great fighter. Asher is well-humoured, wayward and wild. Talia is tough, compassionate, and in many ways reckless (provoking Gryff, wanting the traitor dead before hearing him out) etc. But how could someone describe Mira? She cares about her family... but so what? All the Forresters do. She, erm... She! No, no, no... she's, well she's not funny. Is she smart? Nope, considering she apparently couldn't think of anyway to tell Tyrion about Cersei without loudly blurting it out. Is she loyal? Not really, since she can make alliances with Tyrion, Cersei Tom, Margaery and betray every last one of them.
So, that's where I'll leave this off. I really like nearly all the characters in the game, but despite my efforts, I've not been able to connect or like or care about Mira. At all. And I really do want to. But I just don't. At all. And I think a lot of the reason, boils down to the fact, I can't figure out if she has any personality other than: Hmm, better do this to help my family.
Thoughts? :-S
Comments
I like Mira, but I'm inclined to agree with you. For whatever reason, I can't seem to connect or care for her... at least, not to the extent I can for all the other Forresters (Gared and Royland included).
I'd have to disagree with you on that, that situation was a lose for Mira no matter what, it's pretty clear Mira is very smart and good at being manipulative/getting what she wants otherwise she wouldn't have lived this long in Kings Landing of all places. And again, trying to outsmart Tyrion of all people is not going to go well, no matter how smart you might be he's obviously leagues above everyone else.
I hear what you're saying, but at the end of the day, when Tyrion asked her, "Cersei sent you, didn't she?"
All she had to do was nod, and the whole situation would have been fine...
I disagree her personality comes through pretty well, though not enough to make her a pain like in some games
What personality though? I genuinely want to know, to figure it out, but I can't... :-S
I also have trouble at times with connecting to Mira, even through I like her and there are moments that are awesome.
I think part of the reasons why she is hard to connect with, it is her role as a handmaiden. She isn't allowed to show to much emotions, because she needs to be loyal, quiet and obedient to the lady she serves. When she starts having conversation with Tyrion and trying to help her family, it was something that was frown upon. Also, maybe because she is constantly thinking about ways to help her family and thinking her next move, she comes off as more quiet and reserved. And there simply hasn't been a moment where Mira is allowed to breathe and relax, considering that in almost every scene she has, she is having a conversation or doing some intrigue stuff.
I knew you'd agree with me, Dave! :-D
Anyway, I guess they just needed some character-building scenes with her, because, as it stands, every scene with her is just an attempt to gain some advantage for House Forrester.
But there's never any that just slow's everything down, and allows her to stand-out as a character. And allows us, the player, to flesh her out. But it's a shame, because all the other playable characters get scenes like that...
In the end, we chose her personality, really. I just wish it was already more defined like Gared, Rodrik and Asher.
Slightly snobby but with the forrester ..hardness? I mean she talks down to a lot of people and seems to get more and more like that as she progresses. Shes better than some of the telltale protagonists in terms of personality, its very difficult for a personality of a playable character to emerge as you choose their dialogue
But that's the problem. Ethan, Gared, Rodrik and Asher always have interesting options, you can choose to make them say. Mira doesn't.
I know what you mean. I like her much more in the latest episodes, because... the earlier ones felt like we had to just comply to everything that happened.
Yeah, I get that. I just hope, in the finale, we get more freedom with her. As it stands, when playing as her, it feels like:
Mira is powerless around a lot of the people she interacts with. Say the wrong thing to Margaery and you lose her favor. Say the wrong thing to Cersei and your whole house could get fucked sideways. Tell the wrong people something and you could jeopardize your family. Being thoughtful and understated are strengths, not weaknesses or flaws of character. I love Mira and playing as Mira. That scene with Cersei was nerve-wracking. I like that she doesn't have to do physical combat in every episode. Thinking your way through things is nice and it's especially nice to be able to flirt with Morgryn. There were lots of things I wished I could say as Mira, but we aren't given those choices. Mira is level-headed, practical and kind. She also has a sly sense of humor. Remember that scene with Andros? She had one of the best lines in the game! "Oh don't be so bloody dramatic... I am just getting started." Then there was that smirk. I loved that smirk! And there are ways to shape her personality. Is she a loyal friend to Sera? Is she loyal? Depends on how you play her. Her loyalty is constantly being tested. Should she be loyal to her family (forge that letter to help Rodrick get engaged to Elaena) or loyal to Margaery? Should she be honest with Tarwick and tell him the truth or lie to help Sera? Should she steal from Margaery to help her family or hope for the best and not take anything? She is constant in her loyalty to her family. Above all else, everything she does is for her family. And the people you say she betrays? Tyrion puts her in a difficult spot and acknowledges it! He does it for his amusement. If this alliance doesn't work out, it'll be terrible for you. He says that and she has to figure out if it's worth the risk. When she tries to decline, he goes ahead and does it anyway. Cersei's no friend to Mira. As far as Tom. If you choose to, she kills that guard to save his life. When he talks about how dangerous it would be for him to get into Tyrion's office Mira can say that it isn't worth it to risk his life even though by doing so she's helping her family. By your logic, she just betrayed her family in that instance.
It was obnoxious that we couldn't somehow quietly signal anything to Tyrion in that last meeting... but she's definitely shown intelligence in other scenes. That very first scene with Cersei when she walks through that minefield and somehow says the right things to not piss her off. She tactfully reveals what Andros has been doing to Lyman? She showed that she understood people when she spoke with Morgryn and knew that there was more to why Tryion was offering the ironwood deal than just kindness.
I think you do Mira injustice calling her boring or stupid.
She's kind of... naive. She's kind of a generic shy hand maiden throughout the entirety of the game. It would be cooler if we saw her character change from low, shy and scared handmaiden to a more witty and manipulative one who rises the ranks of King's Landing in attempt to gain power while matching Cersei and Tyrion in a game of words and wit instead of a constant victim
To be fair, Mira doesn't really have an opportunity to express any 'personality' being surrounded by manipulators and people who want to kill her. Even around 'friends' like Margaery and Sera it seems she always has to have her guard up. Unlike Rodrik or Asher, she can't mess around because she's in the presence of high nobles where such behaviour is (mostly) inappropriate.
I wouldn't say she isn't smart though. I gathered that her small chapter in episode 4 was to show how capable she was in regards to finding and getting what she wants on her own. Considering how much she got away with so far I found it really odd how she failed to communicate her intentions properly to Tyrion.
Also, kind of unrelated, but can you imagine the mood swings she's having in relation to her family and the events around her?
It really would be impossible to relax, especially when you have no one around for comfort. Everyone else had someone (Gared and the bros on the Wall, Rodrik with his family and Elaena, Asher with Beskha and Malcolm).
TL;DR, I agree but considering the events and the pressure she's under I wouldn't say a lack of display on personality is unjustified. Hopefully if we get a 'S2' with her as a character this gets expanded.
Well that's just plainly not true. I love Mira though I didn't connect with her until EP2 which is understandable considering that she didn't do much in EP1. This is just my interpretation of her but main personality traits I see in Mira are she's playful, a flirt, cunning and smart but also compassionate mainly towards Sera and Tom. Another way I see her is that unlike the rest of the Forresters she isn't bound to a code of honor she'd do 'anything' to help those she cares about.
I never called her boring, or stupid. I said she had no real personality, beyond trying to help her family, and that she's not smart; otherwise, she'd have told Tyrion about Cersei tactfully. (Just because someone isn't smart, doesn't mean that they are stupid)
But, while you glossed over many aspects of what my point here was, you did make a variety of good one's yourself, and managed to shed some light on what I asked. So thank you
Not every character is going to be like that, also "constant victim"? Mira is one of the more proactive characters how is she a constant victim
True enough. But I don't want to be mistaken here. I do like Mira. I just don't particularly connect with her, as a character--and I feel that probably stems from the fact, I feel she has little personality beyond trying to help her family. Still, you've made some good points there, Ser. And I thank you for them ^_^
That would have been awesome! The problem is, she starts off so strong, handling herself so skilfully with Cersei and Margaery... but her arc seems to be in reverse.
She starts off as a shrewd, and intelligent player of the game.
And seems to be finishing up as a naive, hopeless, and utterly ineffective 'player' of the game... it's kinda sad, really.
The way you describe, oh gosh...Poor Mira...
Every playable characters has someone they can count on and share their thoughts and feelings with, Mira doesn't have that...
I absolutely love Mira and she's one of my favourite characters to play. Oddly enough she's the only character that I've never really viewed as a victim. Ok bad things happen to her and her family, but I don't get the same feeling of overwhelming helplessness that I do when at Ironrath. I think what doesn't help is that we don't see her interact with any of the other members of House Forester. Also none of the other Foresters make mention of her that often. The only times she is mentioned, iirc is:
1) In the woods when Talia, Ethan and Ryon are playing, Ryon expresses some concern for Mira and he wants her to come home to Ironrath.
2) If as Mira you decide to ask Margaery for help, Talia mentions it to Ethan in the court yard and Ethan says that he knew she would pull through for them.
3) Then of course there is Lady Forester who mentions Mira at the beginning and the fact that she is at Kings Landing.
4) Rodrik mentions her, when him and Duncan have a conversation about running low on food(or Royland, if this happens to be a sentinel role). Basically as Rodrik we have the option to say that we trust in Mira's capability.
5) When looking at the family portrait Gared iirc only acknowledges that Mira is the eldest daughter and is currently in Kings Landing, he wonders if they will bring her home.
6) When Elanor visits Rodrik about the betrothal, if Mira sent the letter; she will mention this to Rodrik. Rodrik has the option to say that maybe Mira had something to do with it.
However they never really talk about Mira as a person, they never really reveal what their individual relationship with Mira was really like. How did she treat her younger siblings, did she inspire them in anyway? Did she show any kind of maternal instincts when interacting with Ethan, Talia and Ryon? Or was she standoffish?
It doesn't help that, we are constantly told that Mira is doing this for her family. However it's like there is no emotional recognition. Ethan gets murdered by Ramsay and there is no reaction from Mira. I know that she is in King's Landing and that she has to keep her guard up and maintain a persona. However we don't even get the option to go over to her trunk, take out the carving Ethan made for her and privately reflect on his fate.
When Margaery confronts Mira about her dealings with Tyrion, we don't get the option to tell/remind Margaery that Mira's little brother Ethan has already been killed! That she fears the rest of her family could share a similar end. Yes I know that the whole 'my family is in danger' thing is meant to get this across, but there are different levels of danger. Telling Margaery your family is in danger and telling her just how much danger are totally different.
Given all of this though, I wouldn't say that Mira has no personality.
Quick thinker and able to adapt quickly
To me Mira is able to quickly adapt to any given situation. She has a wide range of personality traits that can shine through at any given time. She can come across as both panicky and cool. I've noticed that in situations where Mira is suddenly surprised or flung into a chaotic situation, she demonstrates an ability to quickly regain her composure and act in a way to try and resolve the problem.
Brave
I also consider her to be brave, she isn't stupid; she knows that some of the things she does can carry great risks, both to her family and to her own safety. Lets not forget that she is all alone, with no one she can really trust and her family are miles away and unable to help her. She has to rely on her own wits, cunning and guile to survive and try to achieve her goals.
Loyal
Mira can be very loyal to her friends, family and allies. However this really depends on how loyal you choose to be or not be. However I list this because we as the player have the option to make her seem more loyal or less loyal. If she had no potential to be loyal, we wouldn't even get the option.
Determined
Mira often shown to have a strong will and determination to reach her goals. She is not a quitter
Ruthless
Mira can be pretty ruthless when she needs to be, this can also make her dangerous too.
Wicked sense of humour
At times Mira sense of humour comes to the fore in some of her conversations.
Charismatic and Charming
Mira often seems at ease when conversing with others, when she puts her mind to it; she seems to be very good at winning people over.
My Mira is never snobby, not to anyone.
Mira to me just doesn't connect with the rest of the main characters. When I play as Asher and Rodrik and Ethan (Hell, even Gared), I feel like a forrester and I feel the conflict that's happening and what I need to do to solve it. With Mira, though, things just happen and it feels so disconnected with the rest of the game. Like, I feel like whatever I do with Mira won't actually matter to her own family at this point, even though the game kinda says it will.
The only Mira moment that actually felt like I was doing something for my family had to be when you write that letter for the Glenmores.
Bullied and pushed around by Marg and Cersei. The highest point she's been in the game is their puppet
How can she be funny while her family is at war? to her family comes first. She is smart by forging the letter, she is smart by talking to Tyrion about the ironwood deal, she is smart by dicovering Ludd's plan, she is smart by coasting Ludd's army. So to me she is important and crucial.
I agree with you 100%. She is in deep trouble all the time and she never had an opportunity to actually be herself. Of course, her lack of screen time doesn't help. If she had someone she could really trust, someone that wouldn't (literally) throw her to the lions if she displeases them, maybe we could get a better grasp of her actual personality. As it should be, she is a slightly different person depending on who she is talking to. I think the closer she was from being herself was when talking to Morgryn on episode 3, maybe because I got the impression she didn't think much of him since he just lost the deal with Tyrion to her (even when selecting the nicer options, I still got the impression that Mira was being a little condescending, but I might be wrong).
You can see how she is not the same person with Tom and Sera, the people she talk to the most, and episode 4 did a good job showing how well she could act and how quickly she could change her acting depending on who she was talking to and what she wanted from them (she doesn't talk to Morgryn, to Tarwick, to Andros and to Lyman on the same way).
I too found it odd how she failed to communicate with Tyrion in episode 5, but I guess the writers simply needed her to fail and then gave her the Idiot Ball so that she couldn't possibly get away with it. She was supposed to be caught and dragged away by the guard one way or the other, therefore her dialogue options were coded "dumb" so the story could progress as the writers wanted.
I'd also add
Calm and Confident
I can only recall Mira being flustered on 3 occasions.
At all other times, even when she's being screamed at by large men or lectured by Cersei or threatened by Andros, she's got ice water flowing through her veins.
I'm pretty sure you missed the '' In my opinion'' at the beginning of the title.
Who isnt their puppet? For a lower house maiden shes doing pretty well achieving her own interests. what more could she possibly do?
Still rise and go head to head with them in mind games. She's not using Tom for all he's worth, he's all over the place and hears things from Olenna, Marg and Cersei. She could seduce him, gain information, and blackmail Cersei into killing Andros. Let's say Tom snags a letter meant for Jaime from Cersei, detailing everything about their relationship and Mira reads it and hides it. She could totally blackmail her saying she has little birds all through out King's Landing who would show it to everyone if she didn't do as Mira commanded. Then Cersei looks at her with those angry eyes saying. "You win for now, little dove but I'll tell you what I told Ned Stark before he lost his head. When you play the Game of Thrones you win or you die.
I really think this is down to the way the other family members don't really talk about her. We learn about the other "POV" characters from others talking about them first--the other Forresters talk about their hobbies, personalities etc. As a previous poster said the Ironrath characters only talk about Mira when it's about what she's doing for them, never about who she is. So its not that she has "no personality," but there's kind of a disconnection there as she definitely seems distant from the rest of the family (and therefore in the player's eyes the rest of the story).
Right ..... that worked out great for ned, in fact you just said it; so you want her to be suicidal? Also so she just finds a random letter which can 100% be traced to jamie and then proven, most of the kingdom has heard the rumours
Also she is manipulating tom from what I can see, for me the mean options are what mira is really thinking, but the nice options are what she has to say.
If mira was on an equal level it would be bizarre shes new to the game
You're absolutely right, I felt sure that I had mentioned this in my post, it was certainly on my mind.
Of course she has personality! Her mother insisted!
All jokes aside, I think Mira just lacks the chances she has to express her personality, and when she does, she has to do it in small doses. I mean this is King's Landing, where a little drama can go horribly wrong a for a person.
You do know that all of the playable characters are empty vessels which personalities are formed by the choices you make and approaches you take. You're basically saying you have no personality lmao.
Incorrect.
Expand on this, please? Most of Mira's personality is determined by the way you speak and the boldness of your decisions. She can be a bitch who manipulates and uses her friends to gain momentum, or a kind person who wants to help her family.
I think Mira's personality is a canvas . You can chose whether she is naive or smart/bold. She doesn't have a preexisting persona just like Rodrik is 'lord in training ' or Asher is 'badass' . I would love if she gets more footage in the upcoming episode and really outsmarts everyone in kings landing. We all know that won't happen.
Yes it would be great if this happened, but like you say it's unlikely =(