In Borderlands you pick your poison. Murderous fortune seekers, or murderous owner of a super corporation. I chose the one that makes me laugh and has a plan. And extra points for calling me Pumpkin.
Well, disregarding the people who woobify Jack and believe him to be a blameless victim, I do believe the canon in this situation is fairly … moreambiguous and open to interpretation where the characters' morality is concerned. The thing is, this is Borderlands, a world where horrible murder is a common occurrence, and none of the characters are good or innocent people. Whether it was Jack, or Lilith, Moxxi and Roland who were ultimately in the right regarding the actions they took is subjective. They all did bad things to achieve their preferred outcomes - who the player thinks is the 'bad' guy depends on which of these outcomes they themselves believe to be better.
Personally I think Jack is a bad person, but in the grand scheme of Borderlands, the better option.
Okay, theses things come from someone who so far, completed all 4 Tales episodes and completed about half of BL2...
-Even though I know what happened in ep3 and I like Athena and I partially know what happens in The PreSequel, I really like Lilith and Mordecai...
-Playing as Zer0 is pretty awesome, I'm curious to play as Maya and Axton, I dislike Salvador, he seems boring and dumb...
-I hate Jack...
-At first I disliked ClapTrap but I felt sad for him when noone came to his birthday party...
-Moxxi is hot... I may have spent about 20.000 dollars on her tip jar, but I got a cool SMG from her boobs, so...
-Even though I like him in Tales, I kinda dislike Scooter and his sister in BL2...
-I love Loader Bot in Tales, but its actually really satisfying killing Loaders in the game...
-I don't really care about Vaughn...
-Rhys and Sasha OTP (its not a thought but a fact)
-I adore Gortys but she needs to stop getting us in trouble...
-I really hope we get to play as Fiona in BL3, and maybe have Rhys and the rest as side NPC characters... I also hope that the playable characters in BL3 do a lot more talking and interaction with NPCs...
Okay, theses things come from someone who so far, completed all 4 Tales episodes and completed about half of BL2...
-Even though I know w… morehat happened in ep3 and I like Athena and I partially know what happens in The PreSequel, I really like Lilith and Mordecai...
-Playing as Zer0 is pretty awesome, I'm curious to play as Maya and Axton, I dislike Salvador, he seems boring and dumb...
-I hate Jack...
-At first I disliked ClapTrap but I felt sad for him when noone came to his birthday party...
-Moxxi is hot... I may have spent about 20.000 dollars on her tip jar, but I got a cool SMG from her boobs, so...
-Even though I like him in Tales, I kinda dislike Scooter and his sister in BL2...
-I love Loader Bot in Tales, but its actually really satisfying killing Loaders in the game...
-I don't really care about Vaughn...
-Rhys and Sasha OTP (its not a thought but a fact)
-I adore Gortys but she needs to stop getting us … [view original content]
-I really wanna know WHERE THE HELL is Mr. Blake! i hope he's fine, i kinda like him.
-i hate Rhysha ship (and their fans(Sorry, but i cannot hide it anymore (Just kidding, I love you all.).).)
-I'LL HATE TTG If the masked man is Felix.
-I hate Felix, i let him explode with the money. No regret.
-I wanna see Axton's ex-wife, Sarah in BL3, and i hope they love each other again.
-I hope no TFTB character to be a playable character in the BL3, but as NPC.
-I hate Jack, but not too much.
-I wish Timothy has returned to a normal life with a normal face.
-Wanna see all Vault Hunters in the Ep. 5, and talk to at least give me an idea of their personalities.
-I think Gortys is more annoying than Claptrap...
I really hope that Jack disappear or die in episode 5.
It is a good character and all, but would be forced and very fanservice-ish if also appeared in BL3. We have enough of Jack, we need another villian. Jack is burned out ("Está Quemado" in Spanish, I do not know the expression in English, but it's something like overexposed)
Okay, theses things come from someone who so far, completed all 4 Tales episodes and completed about half of BL2...
-Even though I know w… morehat happened in ep3 and I like Athena and I partially know what happens in The PreSequel, I really like Lilith and Mordecai...
-Playing as Zer0 is pretty awesome, I'm curious to play as Maya and Axton, I dislike Salvador, he seems boring and dumb...
-I hate Jack...
-At first I disliked ClapTrap but I felt sad for him when noone came to his birthday party...
-Moxxi is hot... I may have spent about 20.000 dollars on her tip jar, but I got a cool SMG from her boobs, so...
-Even though I like him in Tales, I kinda dislike Scooter and his sister in BL2...
-I love Loader Bot in Tales, but its actually really satisfying killing Loaders in the game...
-I don't really care about Vaughn...
-Rhys and Sasha OTP (its not a thought but a fact)
-I adore Gortys but she needs to stop getting us … [view original content]
Well what you wrote about Jack is actual canon. The opinion that Lilith and the others "created" the monster that is Handsome Jack, while being shared vocally, is far from the actual truth. There are so many moments in TPS alone before they try to kill Jack that he shows his true darker colors.
I wouldn't say it's "actual canon" that he was already evil at that point. Although Jack found doing evil things- uh, "liberating," it seemed like he held back on doing it because he didn't want to. Like when the Meriff does wrong by Jack, Jack's original intention was to let him live. It wasn't until the Meriff tried to shoot Jack in the back did he turn around and kill him. He even says "I was going to let you live! What is wrong with you?!"
You're partially correct about the 'Lillith turning Jack evil' opinion. She didn't do it all by herself, she just pushed Jack further enough over the edge to have him rethink his kindness.
Game Theory does an excellent job on explaining why Jack was even pushed to his genocidal ways, even going as far to give him a logical diagnosis of having Borderline Personality Disorder. You should watch it:
Well what you wrote about Jack is actual canon. The opinion that Lilith and the others "created" the monster that is Handsome Jack, while be… moreing shared vocally, is far from the actual truth. There are so many moments in TPS alone before they try to kill Jack that he shows his true darker colors. And if you combine with the background you gain on him from BL2, it's not even a question. The only thing you can blame Lilith for is not killing Jack in that final cut scene (but of course that would've just ruined the continuity) which makes me wonder why they added it at all (Jack already wanted vengeance against them and they didn't necessarily have to explain why and how he got that scar). I don't get why people forget/overlook/take TPS's pov over what was previously established. I mean don't get me wrong it's cute that they think Jack is the real hero of this adventure, but he's not.
* It took me WAY too long to realize that Laura Bailey is also Serana from TESV: Dawnguard. And I'm also severely disappointed that there isn't a mod to give Serana Fiona's outfit and hat.
* ...
* -I really wanna know WHERE THE HELL is Mr. Blake! i hope he's fine, i kinda like him.
* -i hate Rhysha ship (and their fans(Sorry,… more but i cannot hide it anymore (Just kidding, I love you all.).).)
* -I'LL HATE TTG If the masked man is Felix.
* -I hate Felix, i let him explode with the money. No regret.
* -I wanna see Axton's ex-wife, Sarah in BL3, and i hope they love each other again.
* -I hope no TFTB character to be a playable character in the BL3, but as NPC.
* -I hate Jack, but not too much.
* -I wish Timothy has returned to a normal life with a normal face.
* -Wanna see all Vault Hunters in the Ep. 5, and talk to at least give me an idea of their personalities.
* -I think Gortys is more annoying than Claptrap...
* I really hope that Jack disappear or die in episode 5.
It is a good character and all, but would be forced and very fanservice-ish if also appeared in BL3. We have enough of Jack, we need another villian.… [view original content]
* ...
* -I really wanna know WHERE THE HELL is Mr. Blake! i hope he's fine, i kinda like him.
* -i hate Rhysha ship (and their fans(Sorry,… more but i cannot hide it anymore (Just kidding, I love you all.).).)
* -I'LL HATE TTG If the masked man is Felix.
* -I hate Felix, i let him explode with the money. No regret.
* -I wanna see Axton's ex-wife, Sarah in BL3, and i hope they love each other again.
* -I hope no TFTB character to be a playable character in the BL3, but as NPC.
* -I hate Jack, but not too much.
* -I wish Timothy has returned to a normal life with a normal face.
* -Wanna see all Vault Hunters in the Ep. 5, and talk to at least give me an idea of their personalities.
* -I think Gortys is more annoying than Claptrap...
* I really hope that Jack disappear or die in episode 5.
It is a good character and all, but would be forced and very fanservice-ish if also appeared in BL3. We have enough of Jack, we need another villian.… [view original content]
* ...
* -I really wanna know WHERE THE HELL is Mr. Blake! i hope he's fine, i kinda like him.
* -i hate Rhysha ship (and their fans(Sorry,… more but i cannot hide it anymore (Just kidding, I love you all.).).)
* -I'LL HATE TTG If the masked man is Felix.
* -I hate Felix, i let him explode with the money. No regret.
* -I wanna see Axton's ex-wife, Sarah in BL3, and i hope they love each other again.
* -I hope no TFTB character to be a playable character in the BL3, but as NPC.
* -I hate Jack, but not too much.
* -I wish Timothy has returned to a normal life with a normal face.
* -Wanna see all Vault Hunters in the Ep. 5, and talk to at least give me an idea of their personalities.
* -I think Gortys is more annoying than Claptrap...
* I really hope that Jack disappear or die in episode 5.
It is a good character and all, but would be forced and very fanservice-ish if also appeared in BL3. We have enough of Jack, we need another villian.… [view original content]
Yeah everyone can interpret characters however they choose but, it's like saying the Joker is the real good guy and Batman is the actual villain just because an Arkham game was from his pov.
I have seen the Game Theory, quite a few times. It brings up some nice points and entertaining, but he over focuses on some points I don't find that important and overlooks some that I think make the argument open and shut. One main issue is how literal he, and Jack defenders interpret TPS when I feel it needs to be taken with the grain of salt that its partial from Athena's pov and heavily influenced by Jack's perception, which needless to say is beyond skewed. On top of that, the fact that TPS is clearly an after thought in the writing leads a ton of plot holes. People treat it as the story that shows him growing his fangs, but really he's had them long before that, he had just been hiding them.
This is one of my favorite points to argue with. What separates the Vault Hunters/Crimson Raiders from the bandits? It's that why they are far from being idealistic heroes, they do have enough footing in both humanity and reality that they realized that not everyone on Pandora deserves to die. Jack believes he has both but when you're so far off the deep end, it's really almost impossible to retain morals that others agree with. So, in BL2, Moxxi stats that she broke up with Jack after he massacred a village. But in TPS, they had already broken up. Meaning Jack has already established he is a killer. But when they touch on the issue of why they broke up in TPS, it's cause: "she found him creepy". So first conflicting continuity but I take it as game showing subtly that this is from Jack's pov. Cause while Jack doesn't like to kill innocents, because of his psychosis, but who he labels as innocents is way off target. He murders Gladstone and the scientists complete out of paranoia. Yes he's afraid of being betrayed but this is still before Lilith and Roland turn on him. The whole intro of Jack being innocent and helpless against the Dahl soldiers is either an act or just the way he viewed his situation. Cause how does he then get out of it? How does Jack survive for so long if he was a pathetic as they made him seem in the first 5 mins??!?!
And on top of that, Jack calling the Lilith and Roland "friends" shows how out of touch with reality he is. In BL2, he admits that he used the original Vault Hunters in the first game. He took them for chumps, used them, and discarded them afterwards (or tried to). In TPS, all of that seems to be forgotten. Lilith and Roland are aware of Jack (probably through Moxxi) but don't realize he was the one responsible for manipulating them. That actual makes sense, cause it's not until Jack pulls out his Angel card (in BL2) that VH's realize how duped they really were. But Jack pretending that they should all be friends when deep down he sees them purely as a means to his ends, and that they'd go blindly along with that?
The worst thing you can accurately accuse the Lilith, Moxxi, and Roland is that they made Jack focus his anger and insanity on them. They played no part in creating Jack, they just made him show his true colors.
Well what you wrote about Jack is actual canon. The opinion that Lilith and the others "created" the monster that is Handsome Jack, while be… moreing shared vocally, is far from the actual truth. There are so many moments in TPS alone before they try to kill Jack that he shows his true darker colors.
I wouldn't say it's "actual canon" that he was already evil at that point. Although Jack found doing evil things- uh, "liberating," it seemed like he held back on doing it because he didn't want to. Like when the Meriff does wrong by Jack, Jack's original intention was to let him live. It wasn't until the Meriff tried to shoot Jack in the back did he turn around and kill him. He even says "I was going to let you live! What is wrong with you?!"
You're partially correct about the 'Lillith turning Jack evil' opinion. She didn't do it all by herself, she just pushed Jack further enough over the edge to have him rethink his kindness.
Game Theo… [view original content]
I don't hate Jack, I love his character. But the whole bandwagon of Jack is the victim just because a poorly thought out cash in jams itself into the continuity, that's also from alternate pov, paints him in a more sympathetic light.
Well what you wrote about Jack is actual canon. The opinion that Lilith and the others "created" the monster that is Handsome Jack, while be… moreing shared vocally, is far from the actual truth. There are so many moments in TPS alone before they try to kill Jack that he shows his true darker colors.
I wouldn't say it's "actual canon" that he was already evil at that point. Although Jack found doing evil things- uh, "liberating," it seemed like he held back on doing it because he didn't want to. Like when the Meriff does wrong by Jack, Jack's original intention was to let him live. It wasn't until the Meriff tried to shoot Jack in the back did he turn around and kill him. He even says "I was going to let you live! What is wrong with you?!"
You're partially correct about the 'Lillith turning Jack evil' opinion. She didn't do it all by herself, she just pushed Jack further enough over the edge to have him rethink his kindness.
Game Theo… [view original content]
* I like the BL1 Lootsystem way more Then the BL2 one.
* I am a jack Fanboy.
* I think Axton Sucks, because he is just Not As powerfull as… more the other Vaulthunters.
* my only problem with Timothy is, that he came out for TPS and Not BL2.
* the Same goes for Aurelia.
* The Pacing of TPS is it's biggest problem. I just don't want to wait until the conversation of an npc is over.
* because of this, i Really Really Really Hate Gladstone.
* my gaige is only at lvl 52.
* Deathtrap is as usefull as the wunderlust.
* i would pay more than 100$ for BL3, if Pierre Shorette is writing it.
* no, Seriousely. I would.
Let me suggest that you view all of Jack's actions on hindsight that characters do not have, and you are judging the character by what he will do more than what he is doing. In no way do I say that Jack was ever a cuddly kitten of purity, but I judge a person's character their choices given a situation rather than intent and personality.
In TPS his chooses to show restraint in the being of the game, and over time he loses all restraint of actions. It doesn't make him innocent, anymore than being an ass makes him evil. He was flawed from the get go, but as long as his actions were restrained he wasn't the foaming at the mouth monster that people who hate Jack want him to be. Later restraint gave way to acting on base desire and calculation, it was at this point he became the monster.
Through out history people have said and done the most f*up things you can imagine, yet their actions in the end, are for the greater good. We are all born with both sides in us, it's when we chose to rise above our own selfish natures is when we become more that our personal flaws. Jack tried it, it failed, so he chose to wallow in his own dark nature instead.
I don't hate Jack, I love his character. But the whole bandwagon of Jack is the victim just because a poorly thought out cash in jams itself into the continuity, that's also from alternate pov, paints him in a more sympathetic light.
Sadly, I don't think he would be able to do both. Me personally, I'd rather he stay at Telltale, since he will most likely be a main writer for TWD S3 like he was for S2.
* ...
* -I really wanna know WHERE THE HELL is Mr. Blake! i hope he's fine, i kinda like him.
* -i hate Rhysha ship (and their fans(Sorry,… more but i cannot hide it anymore (Just kidding, I love you all.).).)
* -I'LL HATE TTG If the masked man is Felix.
* -I hate Felix, i let him explode with the money. No regret.
* -I wanna see Axton's ex-wife, Sarah in BL3, and i hope they love each other again.
* -I hope no TFTB character to be a playable character in the BL3, but as NPC.
* -I hate Jack, but not too much.
* -I wish Timothy has returned to a normal life with a normal face.
* -Wanna see all Vault Hunters in the Ep. 5, and talk to at least give me an idea of their personalities.
* -I think Gortys is more annoying than Claptrap...
* I really hope that Jack disappear or die in episode 5.
It is a good character and all, but would be forced and very fanservice-ish if also appeared in BL3. We have enough of Jack, we need another villian.… [view original content]
Okay, theses things come from someone who so far, completed all 4 Tales episodes and completed about half of BL2...
-Even though I know w… morehat happened in ep3 and I like Athena and I partially know what happens in The PreSequel, I really like Lilith and Mordecai...
-Playing as Zer0 is pretty awesome, I'm curious to play as Maya and Axton, I dislike Salvador, he seems boring and dumb...
-I hate Jack...
-At first I disliked ClapTrap but I felt sad for him when noone came to his birthday party...
-Moxxi is hot... I may have spent about 20.000 dollars on her tip jar, but I got a cool SMG from her boobs, so...
-Even though I like him in Tales, I kinda dislike Scooter and his sister in BL2...
-I love Loader Bot in Tales, but its actually really satisfying killing Loaders in the game...
-I don't really care about Vaughn...
-Rhys and Sasha OTP (its not a thought but a fact)
-I adore Gortys but she needs to stop getting us … [view original content]
* ...
* -I really wanna know WHERE THE HELL is Mr. Blake! i hope he's fine, i kinda like him.
* -i hate Rhysha ship (and their fans(Sorry,… more but i cannot hide it anymore (Just kidding, I love you all.).).)
* -I'LL HATE TTG If the masked man is Felix.
* -I hate Felix, i let him explode with the money. No regret.
* -I wanna see Axton's ex-wife, Sarah in BL3, and i hope they love each other again.
* -I hope no TFTB character to be a playable character in the BL3, but as NPC.
* -I hate Jack, but not too much.
* -I wish Timothy has returned to a normal life with a normal face.
* -Wanna see all Vault Hunters in the Ep. 5, and talk to at least give me an idea of their personalities.
* -I think Gortys is more annoying than Claptrap...
* I really hope that Jack disappear or die in episode 5.
It is a good character and all, but would be forced and very fanservice-ish if also appeared in BL3. We have enough of Jack, we need another villian.… [view original content]
Yeah everyone can interpret characters however they choose but, it's like saying the Joker is the real good guy and Batman is the actual villain just because an Arkham game was from his pov.
But the thing is, Jack isn't the good guy. It's not how he interprets himself that we take into account, it's his actions that contradicts his claims. Jack is the antagonist, no matter how good his intentions. I'm just saying that he wasn't entirely evil in the pre-sequel.
So, in BL2, Moxxi stats that she broke up with Jack after he massacred a village.
I haven't played BL2 (soon to be playing it though), but Jesus Christ, Jack.
chill
The worst thing you can accurately accuse the Lilith, Moxxi, and Roland is that they made Jack focus his anger and insanity on them. They played no part in creating Jack, they just made him show his true colors.
(Just saying that I didn't accuse them of making Jack evil, but I'm sure you're talking about the general opinion that's often agreed to in the BL community).
Keep in mind, I haven't played any Borderlands games (besides Tales) and I'm just going off by playthroughs on Youtube. But you've kind of sold me on what you're trying to say. I guess I need to play before making my opinion on Jack. Thanks!
Yeah everyone can interpret characters however they choose but, it's like saying the Joker is the real good guy and Batman is the actual vil… morelain just because an Arkham game was from his pov.
I have seen the Game Theory, quite a few times. It brings up some nice points and entertaining, but he over focuses on some points I don't find that important and overlooks some that I think make the argument open and shut. One main issue is how literal he, and Jack defenders interpret TPS when I feel it needs to be taken with the grain of salt that its partial from Athena's pov and heavily influenced by Jack's perception, which needless to say is beyond skewed. On top of that, the fact that TPS is clearly an after thought in the writing leads a ton of plot holes. People treat it as the story that shows him growing his fangs, but really he's had them long before that, he had just been hiding them.
This is one of my favorite points to argue with. Wha… [view original content]
Well TPS was an after thought. They probably knew BL2 was going to be big but they weren't expecting Jack to get so huge. So really, from my rather cynical pov, TPS is just milking his popularity first and foremost, and worried about how it would fit in to the continuity second. Hence all the plot holes it created.
* I like the BL1 Lootsystem way more Then the BL2 one.
* I am a jack Fanboy.
* I think Axton Sucks, because he is just Not As powerfull as… more the other Vaulthunters.
* my only problem with Timothy is, that he came out for TPS and Not BL2.
* the Same goes for Aurelia.
* The Pacing of TPS is it's biggest problem. I just don't want to wait until the conversation of an npc is over.
* because of this, i Really Really Really Hate Gladstone.
* my gaige is only at lvl 52.
* Deathtrap is as usefull as the wunderlust.
* i would pay more than 100$ for BL3, if Pierre Shorette is writing it.
* no, Seriousely. I would.
Ok, this has probably been mentioned before, but I didn't really feel the song in the ep.4 intro. Not to say it wasn't good, and it grew on … moreme, but the thing is, none of the previous songs were my kind of music, and yet I loved them, immediately, because of the ... context? I guess? They just worked out so well... The ep.4 music I'm still kinda meh about.
* I like the BL1 Lootsystem way more Then the BL2 one.
* I am a jack Fanboy.
* I think Axton Sucks, because he is just Not As powerfull as… more the other Vaulthunters.
* my only problem with Timothy is, that he came out for TPS and Not BL2.
* the Same goes for Aurelia.
* The Pacing of TPS is it's biggest problem. I just don't want to wait until the conversation of an npc is over.
* because of this, i Really Really Really Hate Gladstone.
* my gaige is only at lvl 52.
* Deathtrap is as usefull as the wunderlust.
* i would pay more than 100$ for BL3, if Pierre Shorette is writing it.
* no, Seriousely. I would.
Love the username bruh. I can't either, but the only reason I'll choose it is for my alternative play through. Damn I wish someone would photoshop Handsome Jack's face on a Pepe that'd be great.
Love the username bruh. I can't either, but the only reason I'll choose it is for my alternative play through. Damn I wish someone would photoshop Handsome Jack's face on a Pepe that'd be great.
Love the username bruh. I can't either, but the only reason I'll choose it is for my alternative play through. Damn I wish someone would photoshop Handsome Jack's face on a Pepe that'd be great.
My friend was using this as his avatar on Steam for a bit, I asked him for the pic for you, here :P
Original: (I'm using Pepe Rhys as my avatar but I edited his black eye to orange, if you want it PM me)
Ironically, I wasn't thinking about rare pepes when I choose that username.
It was just my nickname around my group of friends and other people back in highschool, a couple years ago. When I realised it, I was immediately disappointed 'cuz of the lack of a Handsome Jack rare pepe.
That is, until GuiltyKing made that masterpiece T.T
Love the username bruh. I can't either, but the only reason I'll choose it is for my alternative play through. Damn I wish someone would photoshop Handsome Jack's face on a Pepe that'd be great.
Ironically, I wasn't thinking about rare pepes when I choose that username.
It was just my nickname around my group of friends and other … morepeople back in highschool, a couple years ago. When I realised it, I was immediately disappointed 'cuz of the lack of a Handsome Jack rare pepe.
That is, until GuiltyKing made that masterpiece T.T
Comments
In Borderlands you pick your poison. Murderous fortune seekers, or murderous owner of a super corporation. I chose the one that makes me laugh and has a plan. And extra points for calling me Pumpkin.
Okay, theses things come from someone who so far, completed all 4 Tales episodes and completed about half of BL2...
-Even though I know what happened in ep3 and I like Athena and I partially know what happens in The PreSequel, I really like Lilith and Mordecai...
-Playing as Zer0 is pretty awesome, I'm curious to play as Maya and Axton, I dislike Salvador, he seems boring and dumb...
-I hate Jack...
-At first I disliked ClapTrap but I felt sad for him when noone came to his birthday party...
-Moxxi is hot... I may have spent about 20.000 dollars on her tip jar, but I got a cool SMG from her boobs, so...
-Even though I like him in Tales, I kinda dislike Scooter and his sister in BL2...
-I love Loader Bot in Tales, but its actually really satisfying killing Loaders in the game...
-I don't really care about Vaughn...
-Rhys and Sasha OTP (its not a thought but a fact)
-I adore Gortys but she needs to stop getting us in trouble...
-I really hope we get to play as Fiona in BL3, and maybe have Rhys and the rest as side NPC characters... I also hope that the playable characters in BL3 do a lot more talking and interaction with NPCs...
You can get a second cool SMG from Moxxi's boobs. Just keep inserting big tips and she'll slip you another one. IIRC it's the burning one.
It is a good character and all, but would be forced and very fanservice-ish if also appeared in BL3. We have enough of Jack, we need another villian. Jack is burned out ("Está Quemado" in Spanish, I do not know the expression in English, but it's something like overexposed)
I wouldn't say it's "actual canon" that he was already evil at that point. Although Jack found doing evil things- uh, "liberating," it seemed like he held back on doing it because he didn't want to. Like when the Meriff does wrong by Jack, Jack's original intention was to let him live. It wasn't until the Meriff tried to shoot Jack in the back did he turn around and kill him. He even says "I was going to let you live! What is wrong with you?!"
You're partially correct about the 'Lillith turning Jack evil' opinion. She didn't do it all by herself, she just pushed Jack further enough over the edge to have him rethink his kindness.
Game Theory does an excellent job on explaining why Jack was even pushed to his genocidal ways, even going as far to give him a logical diagnosis of having Borderline Personality Disorder. You should watch it:
enter link description here
Ooh, I see what you did there.
"...but you're not."
@TDMshadowCP
Don't worry, Rhysha hates you, too.
and edit: Kill Jack and you kill Borderlands. For me at least.
Why would you hate people who ship Rhysha?
That's a bit harsh don't you think, saying you hate the fans of a ship you don't support.
Biggest confession: General Knoxx was a better bad guy than Jack. For me.
Yeah everyone can interpret characters however they choose but, it's like saying the Joker is the real good guy and Batman is the actual villain just because an Arkham game was from his pov.
I have seen the Game Theory, quite a few times. It brings up some nice points and entertaining, but he over focuses on some points I don't find that important and overlooks some that I think make the argument open and shut. One main issue is how literal he, and Jack defenders interpret TPS when I feel it needs to be taken with the grain of salt that its partial from Athena's pov and heavily influenced by Jack's perception, which needless to say is beyond skewed. On top of that, the fact that TPS is clearly an after thought in the writing leads a ton of plot holes. People treat it as the story that shows him growing his fangs, but really he's had them long before that, he had just been hiding them.
This is one of my favorite points to argue with. What separates the Vault Hunters/Crimson Raiders from the bandits? It's that why they are far from being idealistic heroes, they do have enough footing in both humanity and reality that they realized that not everyone on Pandora deserves to die. Jack believes he has both but when you're so far off the deep end, it's really almost impossible to retain morals that others agree with. So, in BL2, Moxxi stats that she broke up with Jack after he massacred a village. But in TPS, they had already broken up. Meaning Jack has already established he is a killer. But when they touch on the issue of why they broke up in TPS, it's cause: "she found him creepy". So first conflicting continuity but I take it as game showing subtly that this is from Jack's pov. Cause while Jack doesn't like to kill innocents, because of his psychosis, but who he labels as innocents is way off target. He murders Gladstone and the scientists complete out of paranoia. Yes he's afraid of being betrayed but this is still before Lilith and Roland turn on him. The whole intro of Jack being innocent and helpless against the Dahl soldiers is either an act or just the way he viewed his situation. Cause how does he then get out of it? How does Jack survive for so long if he was a pathetic as they made him seem in the first 5 mins??!?!
And on top of that, Jack calling the Lilith and Roland "friends" shows how out of touch with reality he is. In BL2, he admits that he used the original Vault Hunters in the first game. He took them for chumps, used them, and discarded them afterwards (or tried to). In TPS, all of that seems to be forgotten. Lilith and Roland are aware of Jack (probably through Moxxi) but don't realize he was the one responsible for manipulating them. That actual makes sense, cause it's not until Jack pulls out his Angel card (in BL2) that VH's realize how duped they really were. But Jack pretending that they should all be friends when deep down he sees them purely as a means to his ends, and that they'd go blindly along with that?
The worst thing you can accurately accuse the Lilith, Moxxi, and Roland is that they made Jack focus his anger and insanity on them. They played no part in creating Jack, they just made him show his true colors.
I don't hate Jack, I love his character. But the whole bandwagon of Jack is the victim just because a poorly thought out cash in jams itself into the continuity, that's also from alternate pov, paints him in a more sympathetic light.
But wouldn't that require Pierre to leave Telltale?
Yeah. Thats the problem...maybe he can do both? Mikey Neumann and Pierre Shorette working together would be a dream for every Borderlands Fan :O
Let me suggest that you view all of Jack's actions on hindsight that characters do not have, and you are judging the character by what he will do more than what he is doing. In no way do I say that Jack was ever a cuddly kitten of purity, but I judge a person's character their choices given a situation rather than intent and personality.
In TPS his chooses to show restraint in the being of the game, and over time he loses all restraint of actions. It doesn't make him innocent, anymore than being an ass makes him evil. He was flawed from the get go, but as long as his actions were restrained he wasn't the foaming at the mouth monster that people who hate Jack want him to be. Later restraint gave way to acting on base desire and calculation, it was at this point he became the monster.
Through out history people have said and done the most f*up things you can imagine, yet their actions in the end, are for the greater good. We are all born with both sides in us, it's when we chose to rise above our own selfish natures is when we become more that our personal flaws. Jack tried it, it failed, so he chose to wallow in his own dark nature instead.
Sadly, I don't think he would be able to do both. Me personally, I'd rather he stay at Telltale, since he will most likely be a main writer for TWD S3 like he was for S2.
Well personally I don't like Rhysha either but I wouldn't hate on their fans, some of them are actually nice to talk to.
I knew I wasn't the only one.
Lol, that was only a joke .-.
I did not think you'd take it so literally.
My bad.
But the thing is, Jack isn't the good guy. It's not how he interprets himself that we take into account, it's his actions that contradicts his claims. Jack is the antagonist, no matter how good his intentions. I'm just saying that he wasn't entirely evil in the pre-sequel.
I haven't played BL2 (soon to be playing it though), but Jesus Christ, Jack.
chill
(Just saying that I didn't accuse them of making Jack evil, but I'm sure you're talking about the general opinion that's often agreed to in the BL community).
Keep in mind, I haven't played any Borderlands games (besides Tales) and I'm just going off by playthroughs on Youtube. But you've kind of sold me on what you're trying to say. I guess I need to play before making my opinion on Jack. Thanks!
Well TPS was an after thought. They probably knew BL2 was going to be big but they weren't expecting Jack to get so huge. So really, from my rather cynical pov, TPS is just milking his popularity first and foremost, and worried about how it would fit in to the continuity second. Hence all the plot holes it created.
It's cool
Just next time just be careful because online it's hard to tell how your coming across.
I can never bring myself to choose the [Reject Hyperion] option in episode 4.
I just can't do it, man.
huh... I actually thought the Ep4 was the most epic one... And I loved the song right away.
WTF did you just say?! If you think that Axton is underpowered you are not playing him right! In other words:
*Warning: don't take this post too seriously *
Love the username bruh. I can't either, but the only reason I'll choose it is for my alternative play through. Damn I wish someone would photoshop Handsome Jack's face on a Pepe that'd be great.
like this?
It's...beautiful
Somewhat.
My friend was using this as his avatar on Steam for a bit, I asked him for the pic for you, here :P
Original: (I'm using Pepe Rhys as my avatar but I edited his black eye to orange, if you want it PM me)
Those are some fine Pepes, my friend.
Ironically, I wasn't thinking about rare pepes when I choose that username.
It was just my nickname around my group of friends and other people back in highschool, a couple years ago. When I realised it, I was immediately disappointed 'cuz of the lack of a Handsome Jack rare pepe.
That is, until GuiltyKing made that masterpiece T.T
lol, glad you liked it. Now I feel bad for not even really trying. I just kinda made it in 10 minutes. I could have masked it better...
JUST DO IT!!!!